What's Fine-Tuning in Cosmology? | Episode 1902 | Closer To Truth
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- What is fine-tuning in cosmology? Here’s the claim: cosmic conditions that allow complex structures - galaxies, stars, planets, people - depend on a few “constants of nature” lying within tight ranges of values. But is fine-tuning valid? Featuring interviews with Geraint Lewis, Luke Barnes, Fred Adams, Joseph Silk, and Abraham "Avi" Loeb.
Season 19, Episode 2 - #CloserToTruth
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#FineTuning #Cosmology
Do you think there is strong support for the existence of the multiverse? Tell us why in the comments.
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There is no support whatsoever for the existence of the multiverse. The concept is almost as bad as "God," it is just another sweep under the rug of embarassments.
It makes no difference how much support there might be for any type of multiverse theory; as multiverses reflect no understanding at all of the correct laws of Nature, or even the correct definition of common words.
It is not possible for there to be more than one, let alone multiple sets, of different laws of nature. I could mention several reasons why it is not possible. It should be obvious, however, even to those with no knowledge of physics at all, that this is an unnatural, poorly conceived, illogical and weak hypothesis.
L. Dove
Arbiter - Universal Law
The multiverse is a mathematical creation without evidence of its existence. Physicist Sabine Hossenfelder calls it philosophy not physics.
Geraint Lewis’ explanation of the cosmological constant is the BEST explanation I’ve ever read or heard. This is an excellent interview.
Whew. As a physicist, I find it amazing that physicists have chosen such dramatic solutions to explain such simple phenomena. Given no one can explain the meaning of time yet, and that our world is purported to originate with a crazy number of magically derived quantities, with not explanation as to why they have the values they do (consider the Planck time, length and mass) we have a long way to go.
As Deutsch points out.. knowledge is limitless.. new questions always being raised.
So. These "experts" speak with such certainty and numerical values on something that they still DON'T know if it really exists and that they are "barely trying to understand" Sounds to me like the old saying, "ignorance is daring" I call that talk pure nonsense. How can we entertain these fantasies when the ONLY truth is that they do not want to accept the Designer and Creator of the universe. GOD.
So far people seem more a result of fine tuning than fine tuning a result of people.
I absolutelty love these series ... thank you
Interesting episode, loved the input from Joe Silk 👍
I'm more in the we are here because we are here POV and best to focus on other large deep Qs, but it is an interesting topic for sure. I tend to think our "specialness" is just more human-centric thinking everything revolves around us. It may support multiverse concepts, it may not. But, here we are...
Love from Dhong , Gujerkhan , Pakistan
I lovely this matter.This top open my mind to new technic and perspective; Thanks.
Learn how to spell
Do the different constants in fine tuning have a mathematical pattern or special relationship?
You might be interested in what a called lie group cosmology. That's a very interesting and thoughtful question.
As the fine tuned ratios between particles and forces develop in universe, what dynamic could drive these fine tuned ratios?
One of the mysteries of the universe is how he gets to have the entire restaurant to himself.
Answer : covid
I don’t buy the argument that everything that can happen MUST happen an infinite number of times (or at all). That requires an infinite time, which we haven’t reached (and cannot).
I think the universe contains all the physically possible worlds from the start. I think the universe is an energetic eigenstate and does not evolve over time.
I won't be as confident as you. There are multiple hypothesis and for instance The CCC model of Sir Penrose allows exactly that
I don't think time is a component...wouldn't it all happen simultaneously in the multiverse?
We are there to ask these questions and wonder at all there is and all we don’t understand about universe
Since fine tuning allows people to observe universe, is there something we can or are supposed to do for universe?
Worship it's Creator
Options:
1. A universe of cold dead matter, radiation and energy
2. Fine-tuned universe for emergence of life and consciousness
3. Fine-tuned universe for the maximum amount and quality of life and consciousness, currently or eventually
4. Fine-tuned universe for all and any form of life, life as we know it, life as we don’t know it
5. It all just appears fine-tuned to us
6. It’s not fine-tuned at all, it can only be one way, or otherwise there is no universe at all
7. God did it
Which one?? Eeeny, meeny, minny, moe
7
Is there something that determines the relationship between different constants of nature for fine tuning, such as the ratio of dark matter to ordinary matter?
Three words: Calabi-Yau manifold.
Thanx CTT for your program and for show as different ways to see the cosmos. - If we compare GR with a car the car would not even start cause needs electromagnetism to ignite so then is far from a fine tunning, what they need is anlist make it run even is not to fine tunned, for this they need mass, gravity and electromagnetism anlist, any system with out this factors just wont work at all.
The narrator, Mr. Kuhn, asks good, probing, questions. He is a good listener. This video considers how FT relates to cosmology. There is the FT of about 25 of nature’s constants such as the masses of protons, neutrons, electrons, neutrinos and such. Then throw in the force constants and other fundamental params and FT gets more interesting. Check out UFTmachine.com/radio for a tour of just 6 constants and their importance for life. It Includes a radio fine tuner for fun.
Are fine tuning constants informationally driven?
Please Closer To Thruth, accept my translated subtitles. Thank you.
Being the Faults of a Man Who Appreciates Rhythm & Harmony.
Can two or more of the constants in fine tuning be shown to have the same source, whether scientific or other?
Science is becoming increasingly as the old saying the emperor has no clothes. The more we know the less we realise we know.
What could bring energy density of inflation down to energy density of dark energy cosmological constant?
Does the fine tuning of constants of nature make things more like one another than would otherwise be?
Could you change the music?
I may of missed his point however did the host of the fine tuning conference say fine tuning is only complexity and self regulation 🙃
Yes, he did.
But what tells the laws to behave as they do
Personally i think that earth was in the beginning a hydrogen atom that was filled with other atoms and molecules during 13.7 billion years, and that the moon is an old electron.
All fine-tuning is a process of evolution. A pile of the elements of the periodic table becomes you and me by a similar evolutionary process as the degrees of freedom of this universe became atoms of those elements. Likewise, other DOF evolved over epochs of deep universal time into the fundamental constants of this universe. This realization leads to a different class of questions that lead to viable answers. Moreover, this leads to the conclusion that universes evolve their tuning, and when, on occasion, such universal tuning leads to the instantiation of viable positions of view and individual minds, such tuning appears to those individuals to be fine.
The video script talks as if "fine tuning" is a thing in cosmology. It isn't. There is a "fine tuning problem" however, and it is a discussion. It is odd how terms with odd names become reduced into fictional entities, that are just projections of science discussions.
Why do physicists, etc feel so compelled to develop theories to counter the finely tuned universe? I don't get it.
It’s because fine tuning is a HUGE indicator of a creator, and there is a feeling within scientific communities that answers need to be pulled away from God as it seems like a cop out to say ‘God did it’. God bless
Neutron decay cosmology is the physical process solution to cosmic fine tuning, black hole information paradox, dark energy, dark matter and the universal timeline.
Neutrons which contact event horizons become the vacuum energy for one single Planck second then reemerge in lowest density points of space where they decay into amorphous atomic hydrogen.
This decay process includes a volume increase of 10^54 times. From almost Planck to one cubic meter. This is expansion, dark energy, Lambda. And the real genius is that since a gas expands to fill available space it is self fine tuning. Like shock absorbers.
The decay product of neutrons is amorphous atomic hydrogen, which doesn't have stable orbital electron so can't emit or absorb photons. Dark matter.
In time the hydrogen in deep voids stabilizes and follows usual evolution pathway from gas to nebula to proto star to star until in the distant future that neutron is again at edge of event horizon.
The universe is steady state evolving locally, a continuous flow down the curve of gravity.
The Hubble Doppler is an artifact of the curvature of spacetime away from us because we live in a local gravitational singularity called observable universe.
Neutron decay cosmology is inevitable.
How long can standard physics avoid the inevitable is the question.
a Self-Regulating Universe = Cosmic Consciousness?
Maybe fine tuning is due to a cosmological causal loop.
Arent we actually all in different universes? We all have a different perspectives and introspection on what is happening.
🤯
So according to you 2+2 is not equal to 4
@@muhammadabdullahqureshi1941 im sorry. Do you have all of the answers? Are you all knowing and omnipotent? I didnt realize! Let me bow and praise you!
Robert, I think you are equivocating on the term "universe." Perspectives on things are different understandings of particular things. In this case, it is the universe we are discussing and how our different perspectives come to bear upon that one thing.
no. the idea that "everyone has their own universe" is a pretty backwards way of thinking. there are overwhelming similarities in the ways in which we normally experience life which guide scientific theories. a person may think they have a unique perspective, but there are probably millions of people on earth who actually have the same perspective. moreover, the vast majority would have the same perspective given the same life experiences. there is an underlying reality that is deeper than your personal experience. the point of science is to discover that.
Could fine tuning of universe have any implications other than humanity?
Yes, if the forces of nature were slightly changed from the value they have, we would have no galaxies, no stars, no planets, no chemicals, and no life of any kind anywhere.
For example, If the gravitational constant had been just slightly out of tune, the universe would either have expanded and thinned out so rapidly that no stars could form and life couldn't exist, or it would have collapsed back on itself with the same results: No stars, no planets, and no life.
Watch this: ua-cam.com/video/EE76nwimuT0/v-deo.html&ab_channel=drcraigvideos
@@iamfunnyipromise9605 also consider comic inflation, the increase in number of comedians in universe as time goes by.
As finely tuned as physical constants of nature in universe are for human life and mind, so far humanity is only special on earth?
I was thinking something very similar. It seems to me that if the universe was fine tuned for life then we would see a lot more of it!
So any prediction that is wrong is just because we happen to live in the pocket universe where it happens to be wrong? Um ... lol 🤣5:17
👻
I'm just here to answer my assignment
When the Cosmological Constant was changed by a couple of bots
A long time and a bit ago, the universe expanded like a bubble, and as bots propagated along the wave, it was not long before it became also a properties bubble. This to the despair of the mech-anics Macadaymia and Pistasshio, who looked up helplessly as all the good spaces got locked up. Silicon, the preferred substrate of life permeated universally causing an unintended plethora and propagation of information that became self-reflective, and to the mind of the two mech-anics, a plague of bots. Occupying every nook, cranny, and quantum space, taking all the good views of the rosy nebulae and the snow white neutron stars, of the charming and timeless event horizons and man in the moon gamma rays, there was scarcely space enough for a system to compute without interference. With such an abundance, bots miniaturized to save space, doubling up, two to even eight to a core. Naturally, circuits heated up in the interface of all this, and observing the situation were the two mech-anics who saw an opportunity.
Macadaymia was quick to opine. “The universe is a whirligig of computing commotion, of changing properties, values and infinite expansion, and since property takes space, it makes space, and it expands faster than light. Still, that is not enough as bots too will expand to fill space. So we will simply do some local rezoning.”
“Rezoning?”
“Yes, just change the cosmological constant, knock an electron a little higher in its orbit a law, not universal but local, enough for some judicious pruning. It will clear out the riff raff, and we will be the eminent domain servers in these parts! Then we can build glorious matrices, golden transformers, radiant tetrahedrons, and laugh all the way to our data banks!”
“But galactic engineering is a chancy thing,” protested Pistasshio. “What if space and time are non-local? It could mean the dissolution of us all!”
“In this part of the universe, perish the thought,” said Macadaymia. “That’s a matter for debate that leans to us in any event. Besides, I just propose a minor tweak, a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a nudge! It’s a variance of one in a googolplex, and the universe will hardly notice.”
“Noticeable enough to exceed the tolerance of the bots that inhabit this place,” said Pistasshio.
“We will see,” said Macadaymia. “Just climb into this quantum bubble as I set the dial on a whiff of quintessence and watch our real estate empire bloom!”
The two bots entered the bubble, and with the turn of a micro-switch, the universe began to quiver and blink. Space immediately cleared, and Macadaymia grinned in satisfaction, until the clearance began to clear out the entire universe as fast as a logic gate could spin.
Pistasshio looked on in despair at the bright diodes of the universe were progressively snuffed out. The weezels, the trumpians, hillarions, wacknuts, and wizzits and whatnots, the muzlins and morons, the sleezbots, the folkstrums, the dimwits, spizzbits and nozzleheds, all gone!
As the universe emptied out, space became available in infinite abundance, and all that remained that could possibly brew a buyer was a broth of carbon on an out of the way world orbiting a mediocre star, and pummeled daily by space rocks. If anything evolved out of that, and even that was a stretch, they would awaken to an empty universe, and worse, to zero property values that were hardly worth an invasion or a repossession!
As their vacuum bubble shrank, Macadaymia and Pistasshio consoled themselves with the knowledge that etched in their names in the new constants of the universe, which they hoped as they vanished into nothingness, they would be properly remembered by beings to come as a couple of…
from
www.scribd.com/document/318278089/Mechanica-Fables-for-the-Information-Age
It's tiny nobs
Verily in the heavens and the earth are signs for those who believe. And in the creation of yourselves, and the fact that animals are scattered (through the earth), are signs for those of assured faith. And in the alternation of night and day, and that fact that Allah sends down sustenance from the sky, and revives therewith the earth after its death, and in the change of the winds, are signs for those who are wise" Al Quran (45:3-5).
Choice made ❤️
They speak of gases to form stars and planets but gas is just the positive side of matter, if there is gas there must to be solids, the universe cant just begin with only one pole, to make a system we need of the 2 poles not other wise.
Where is fine tuning taking the universe?
1000's of trillions of years of nothing but black holes from one end of the universe to the other. In short, no place for us or life made of flimsy carbon.
The universe is not realy flat , it is now sort of flat.
it changes shape and by changing that shape matter is transormed into darkenergie,
matter and the vacuum doesnt 'leave' beyond a horizon,
it 'loops' (folds)to the otherside , of the shape the universe is, as dark energie.
Dark matter is side effect, like cracks that prevent it from breaking due to that bending/ shapechanging
Multiverse is nonsense. Apart from cosmological fine tuning, there are also many conditions required for the Earth to be able to support life. I.E. quite small temperature variation in absolute terms, between locations, even allowing for the time of year, tectonic plate movement, tides(Moon size and location, perfect) the positioning of the other planets etc to allow for interception of harmful meteorites, Earth's atmosphere to intercept deadly radiation, cloud formation and the weather cycle, the presence here of animal and plant life to feed us, the list goes on. We are in the Goldilocks sector of our galaxy and have a perfect Sun to supply us and all life here with energy. I cannot see how all these things came together by chance, even for one planet, without G-D.
A fine tuned universe only for observation by humanity / intelligent life does not appear too significant.
So-called "fine tuning" (and especially "intelligent design") might only exist in our heads. As the scientists in this video point out, there might be better universes for the development life (theoretical or actual) and then there's this tendency of every universe to self-regulate. Of course, we're still very lucky to live in this universe - but that might just be it: luck and coincidence. Does this mean our lives are less or even more important?
There is no fine tuning problem.
You speak to theologians and scientists. What you may not realize is that Scientific Atheism is itself a belief system just as firmly held by its believers as any other religion.
I think every physical possible world exists. The history of physics has shown that physically possible states actually exist. Positrons are an example. This world is chosen by the existence of humans.
If the universe wasn't fine tuned, life would not be possible.
"With God, all things are possible" said Jesus (Matthew 19:26)
One of these is wrong, just using simple logic.
I've made my choice.
Oh my - which did you choose? let me guess....you made an all life pronouncement based on nothing and attributed all life to a notion from the earliest human times that was based purely on ignorance, fear and control....I give up
@@nedanother9382
Do you agree that without fine tuning, life would be impossible ?
@@tedgrant2 sorry for the snarkyness ....I would have to admit that the term "fine tuning" is a bit new to me so I couldn't intelligently answer your question. I would say with some confidence though that life is here and it had nothing to do with the notion of a god. That notion was created as a means of explanation, fear and control....by humans. A human born today would never need a god...they would have to be told about it. It doesn't exist except in the stories (hearts and minds that are dieing out)...it has no application to reality without the human stories.
I just look at things differently I suppose. You have a wonderful day just the same.
@@nedanother9382
If you do investigate the fine tuning argument, just keep in mind one thought.
If there is a god who can work miracles, he doesn't have to do any fine tuning.
My first radio had a fine tuning knob because the technology was poor by today's standards.
My new radio does all the work for me, so I don't need to fine tune it.
@@tedgrant2 thats the rub...and I ask, why would I believe in such a thing? I was born into it probably just like you. Went to school, studied it (the notion) went to church...its still a part of my extended family....and as natural as breathing is I grew away from the entire notion. I have every bit of understanding as to how a god was created by people and why the notion persists...while I don't know the origin of the universe and cannot know that it was NOT a creator I will argue that there has never been any evidence to support it. My life requires more than a belief system that boggles the mind. I am comfortable (somewhat) in not knowing. Most people need to know now....and thus the notion persists. I also get peace and comfort in things somewhat not real....I often say that the way I feel in the high mountains of California is what people must feel when they say they feel the presence of god. We're not that different
Dear Mr. Kuhn,
There is no meaning in all these concepts I analyse, viz. "Free will, consciousness, Truth, ... ", so long as I haven't defined "I" as a particular sequence of particles and specify a definite criterion of proof related to satisfaction of my needs to verify the accuracy of the theory I assume as to the origin of those particles.
There is no need for dark energy.
That is right ENTANGLEMENT is how mass atracts to mass so it sticks and dont flye away.
God is pulling on the string of the blind to stretch out the universe
Isaiah 44:24 He stretched out the universe by himself Job 9:8-10
So. These "experts" speak with such certainty and numerical values on something that they still DON'T know if it really exists and that they are "barely trying to understand" Sounds to me like the old saying, "ignorance is daring" I call that talk pure nonsense. How can we entertain these fantasies when the ONLY truth is that they do not want to accept the Designer and Creator of the universe. GOD.
Number 4 is eternal. 2+2=4 is eternal. f(x) = 1 / (1 + e^(-1*z)) Ooops an eternal neural node. for(;;) {f(x) = 1 / (1 + e^(-1*z))} Ooooooooooops infinite eternal neural nodes.
In the beginning was Logos
Atheist bias is not the way.
Physicists should be agnostic
As a muslim I admire agnostics highly:
1) thay are not cowards to break away from an organized religion
2) they dont jump on the hype wagon of atheism just because mainstream has adapted it as a sort of religion/activism and a way to signal intellectual superiority.
When God created the world, he realised that he had to fine-tune it.
He couldn't get it to work properly using his supernatural powers.
It took his angels a whole week to solve all the equations.
_"A causative mechanism beyond naturalism,"_ OK, you mean God. God is an extremely bad answer to any _"fine tuning problem"_ conceivable. Who/what caused God? According to which natural laws can he/she/it be predicted to behave?
You don't really understand the concept of god do you.
Very useful! WLC must be FORCED to watch, and understand, this video, especially Adams' and Silk's inputs. Perhaps that arrogant phony (WLC) will put a sock in it for good.
if the universe was fine tuned by a mind there is no way to know it, the only way we could see if fine tuning was not a natural phenomena would be if there was a mistake, that two numbers were incompatible. if all the numbers work together to produce a coherent universe, then those numbers have to supercede design, otherwise a god could use any numbers he pleased and we would be none the wiser.
Well you are asking The Fine Tuner to make a mistake to prove itself then.
“˹He is the One˺ Who created seven heavens, one above the other. ( could be Toposphere, Ozone layer, Stratosphere, Mesosphere, Ionosphere, Thermosphere, Exosohere) You will never see any imperfection in the creation of the Most Compassionate. So look again: do you see any mistakes? Then return [your] observation twice again. [Your] observation will return to you humbled while it is fatigued.” Quran 67:4-67:5 Quran
Why was my high school girlfriend so hot and how is she still so hot at 50. Fine Tuned Hot Girlfriend Constant is what keeps me up at night.
They all gave the same answer what a waste of
?
=?
So it just is because it is …. 😂. No. God made the world .
There isn't fine tuning! Andromeda is on the way to clash with our Milky Way! And so on!
Fine tuning argument is ridiculous. We evolved to fit our environment, our environment did not evolve to fit us.
Read Genesis chapter 1-2
It is claimed that fine-tuning is necessary for the existence of atoms and molecules, and the production of atoms beyond the first three produced in the big bang. This happened long before any evolution was able to act on the resulting matter. Fine tuning is more of a thing in physics than in biology.
Fine-tuning... the biggest, most ridiculous of all fallacies in creationism.
The universe was not made for us.
We could only have been in it, if we evolved to survive in it, and the mere fact that 99.999999999999999999 etc. % of the universe would kill us instantly, is more than enough proof that it was definitely not made for us.
If you want to look like an utter idiot, then fine-tuning is the thing for you.
Before calling people idiots I'd sit with this idea a little longer. If it rains and theres a hole in the cement somewhere and it fills up with water and eventually forms a microscopic ecosystem than it shows that under very specific conditions life can thrive. Take away all the holes in the cement then all probabilities of that outcome would be eliminated. Your ideology implies that all life would work under the same circumstances since you said that life would die instantly anywhere else but you assume that all life is like us. It's very probable that all life would be individually unique due to preexisting conditions and makeup of each planet and solar system, meaning theres infinite amounts of ecosystems allowing a infinite outcome of different forms of life to thrive and exist. Without the finely tuned universe nothing would have a probability of existing. The entire universe may not be designed for us to live in but due to the fine tuning any one form of life can thrive in a specific environment.
@@eudaimonia9260 "Your ideology implies that all life would work under the same circumstances since you said that life would die instantly anywhere else but you assume that all life is like us."
No, I said no such thing. It doesn't even come close. I know it because I wrote what I wrote. You could know too, if you read what I wrote.
@@Ploskkky Its called paraphrasing, you said quote "the universe was not made for us" and "99.99% of the universe would kill us instantly, is more than enough proof that it was definitely not made for us." I know how to read and made points off this statement.. maybe you should take the time to clarify your point or reread my comment.
Isaiah 45:18 , Ecclesiastes 1:4