Please stop doing this to old computers!
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2023
- #airlines #computer #technology I try really hard not to get mad at people for their 'strange' hobbies, especially since i have a few of my own, but I'm really tired of this particular situation, featuring a very, very rare 1960s computer terminal by Burroughs, part of an aborted project with TWA (Trans World Airlines) to digitize their booking systems.
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Just to be clear, I don't hate keyboard guys. I don't entirely understand their fascination with switches and such, but they don't need to justify that to anyone. Everyone has hobbies others don't understand... computers, cookie jars, model trains, etc. There is a wide spectrum in what mech keyboard guys do, including brand new as well as old, and I find a lot of it amazing. When a loose vintage keyboard finds a loving home I have to be good with that. It's just when a rare and unique device is purposely separated from its keyboard to feed that market that I get a bit annoyed. My problem maybe is more with the sellers than the keyboard guys. I don't want to encourage hate.. I just want to preserve historical items that deserve to saved and kept together, maybe even given the chance to operate again.
I totally understand where you are coming from. As a retro macintosh enthusiast myself i've seen a number of disturbing trends all involving gutting sometimes rare vintage macs to turn into decorative wall clocks or fish tanks. What happens to the parts that get removed in this case destructive process? They go in the landfill of course the person matching the stuff doesn't care about them. So we have a vintage potentially rare computer turned into a tacky knick knack that will itself also end up in landfill shortly for being so tacky.
Your suffering will be legendary, even in hell!
As a gal who is both a vintage computer & keyboard collector, I gotta agree.
Well as a fella who does both keys and computers... I can sum it up in one simple phrase: I want the switches because "they just don't make em like they used to".
Blame Adderall. One of its side effects is taking up strange new hobbies.
Some of the keyboard guys strike me as if they were car steering wheel collectors, who would buy vintage cars, take the steering wheel off, mount it in the wall, and scrap the car.
And then be surprised that the car as a whole could possibly have any value to anyone.
pride is such a wasteful and ugly thing, hard to believe that people actually find joy in ruining things for posterity
I can understand wanting to have a nice keyboard with cool stuff on it. I've been wanting to put some cool internals into an old radio shack computer for some time. But if you're desecrating something that is limited production or historic like this that's something completely different
They'll use it on their car for a day and then realize that rim blow kinda doesn't actually really make driving any better and look for another, after writing a review about how cool and satisfying it is to press on a section of the rim to honk and how cool they are.
Yep
I feel like computer guys are more interested in keeping the history alive while keyboard guys more often just want to be the coolest kids on the block.
They have no regard for the past. :(
Yup. Hipsters who want to look "retro" but actually have zero interest in history.
Keyboard hipsters. Yup!
It's cred for their collection. Much like car collectors that don't ever drive their cars.
@@lliaolsen728 and as they don’t have to drive “cars”, they go for the dumbest, most easily repurposable pieces of those systems. Taking the earlier analogy with steering wheels, it’s almost as cheesy as taking old car steering wheels from perfectly functional cars and grafting them onto, say, steering wheel controllers for consoles.
I, too, buy vintage stuff (in my case, fountain pens), and would never do that sort of thing. It’d be like fitting a cartridge feeder onto one, or, worse even, replacing the whole nib assembly - it’s usually really high-quality stuff, the nibs being made out of gold and with an amount of flex you just can’t get anymore from any current brand, even historical ones - with a ballpoint tip and cartridge just because the barrels are pretty (and very often they are). Or vice-versa, as in buying a perfectly fine vintage pen and grafting its nib onto a modern barrel and feeder just because the rest of the assembly is more dependable.
Nope! I deal with all the leaks and spills and brittle rubber sacs (I had to replace one all by myself on a recent purchase), as that’s what any other pen owner would do back in the day, and even if I concede that that’s a bit of an hipster attitude, at least it’s respectful towards those objects (and I don’t even think they’re collectibles in the traditional sense of the word; they’re tools, and serve different purposes, as some of them are more portable than others, not all of them are loaded with the same ink colours, not all nibs behave equally, etc.). And something tells me that most of the nibs that pop up on eBay were salvaged from outright destroyed barrels, as these guys would much rather sell complete, working specimens, as disassembling those isn’t exactly easy (the feeders are extremely fragile, the nib retention collars even more so, and the whole operation can also damage the nibs, so there’s that).
As for keyboards? Well, if they aren’t hardwired, it’s just a matter of unplugging them. But it’s patently obvious that for any other connector than the easily adapted PS/2 and AT ones, their destiny may very well be some sort of mutilation (well, now Raspberry Pi-based adapters are now becoming a thing, so maybe there’s some hope that these may one day be more easily reunited with their original host machines).
On my university course there’s a mechanical keyboard person and they came into a lecture bragging to me how he found a pristine ADM 3A terminal just for them to take the stack pole switches and make a second aux keyboard. They then just threw it in the bin. Argument ensued.
Of all the things to trash, and for HITEK/Stackpole switches! They're one of the most common things out there. I've seen dozens of loose or partly broken keyboards with those switches. But they trash a nice ADM 3A? uggggh
@@TechTimeTraveller they are are stuck up idiot who thinks that because it’s old it’s worthless
I'm just as stunned. I mean my first computer was a TRS-80 Model I with Stackpole switches, and it was nice to type on, but if I wanted to build a keyboard, I'd go with modern switches. Probably the worst thing about Stackpole is that everything is molded together, why would you do that, WHY?
Also, I have an ADM-3A that I found at a thrift store in 1999 and then stored away for over 20 years. When I got around to it, I had to fix the cataracts and build an adaptor for the missing lowercase chargen. The keyboard needed love too, but I had a couple of spare Stackpoles that had never been in anything, so I had plenty of parts to repair the sticky keys. It was much more challenging to repair one of the coolest looking terminals of all time than to rip its keyboard out for something inevitably ugly, and throw the rest away.
Who on earth would want Stackpole switches? They're almost all rotten and broken by now. In fact I am working on a project to replace the Stackpoles in a vintage computer with better switches to extend it's life.
@@silitekmodder5681 exactly. I can’t understand why. I’m having to replace the switches in some of my stuff at the moment because they are junk
I was one of the original three guys that founded deskthority. In the nearly two decades of having an interest in mechanical keyboards I have done some unspeakable things. I have left behind, purposely separated and flat out scrapped out hundreds of interesting machines. I have torn apart and desoldered keyswitches from rare keyboards with protocols that are just now starting to be emulated. I have separated more than a dozen of Dolch portables just for their keyboard and recycled the rest. I am not free of sin and there is probably a special place in hell for me.
However, as of a few years ago I have ironically entirely shifted my interest. As the mechanical keyboard market and community grew and grew more and more, I somehow lost interest, entirely. At one point I realized that the big part of what was really interesting to me about the hobby was the hunting - finding a rare gem, an unknown board or an unknown switch and documenting it. At that point I started to go for entire machines. I have become obsessed with late 70s and early to mid 80s machines.
I now rent two extra garages and an extra storage unit. I own several mini computers, hundreds of interesting machines and probably have accidentally amassed the biggest TI-990 collection in Europe. I have since helped a lot of people to get a keyboard remarried to a solo terminal and found some spares for hard to find keyboards.
So maybe there is some redemption. Or maybe that's just what I'm telling myself as I'm looking for another affordable warehouse to rent...
As a former member of the MK community I think people's interest has shifted largely toward commodity keyboards and group buys. Owning a rare or vintage keyboard is a "flex" for its own sake. I originally got into MK from doing model F conversions, but like you I eventually became more interested in the original machines.
TI-990 you say?? Do you have any software for the DS-990 Model 1 systems? I have one sitting next to me right now, but no software for it. They're very similar!!
@@orinokonx01 I have about 600 8" floppies to go through that came with the TI-990 haul, however they are most likely all based on TAXOS, since all my machines were all rebranded versions of TA (Triumph Adler). They spun their own operating system instead of using the existing ones.
@@tomatolicious ahhhh right, how interesting! It amazes me how much of TI's early computer shenanigans has been lost to time.
Thank you for finding the value in these rare and interesting machines. Help someone realize the same thing and you'll have redeemed yourself, in most of our eyes at least. 👍
There was a pretty big controversy surrounding one of these "keyboard guys" at the Computer Reset liquidation a couple of years ago. Not only was this person intentionally harvesting HUNDREDS of rare keyboards away from the computers and terminals they belong to - expressly against the wishes of the organizers - but he made an even bigger mess of the warehouse in the process, dumping boxes of parts into piles on the floor, and leaving the carcasses of the machines he pilfered the keyboards from outside, where they could get rained on. -Not only that, but he was intentionally stealing keyboards from computers that other attendees had reserved.- _(False, clarified below.)_ I think this clown made close to $8000 in keyboard sales before he finally got banned from Computer Reset (apparently he was hiding the rare keyboards under commodity rubber domes, which is why the organizers didn't catch on at first). When he posted his sob story online, not even the other keyboard collectors were having it. The piecemeal sellers on eBay are bad enough, but yeesh... this needs to stop.
just banned? feels light for the amount of damage caused
Serves those losers over there right.
@@Minty1337 -There were rumblings of a civil suit, but I dunno if anything came of it.- _(False, clarified below.)_ As far as I know, he's the ONLY visitor to have been banned from Computer Reset. Which is saying a lot, considering how chaotic the Facebook group became after LGR made his viral video.
@@OldEqualsCool ah yes LGR. King of the wikipedia reading to video image montage millennial hipsters out here. Doing his parts to rewrite history for a time he wasn’t even born into.
There was another clown who took a super rare IBM prototype from Computer Reset and couldn't get the power supply to work so he shorted it out with a paperclip and the whole thing fried. He did it live on UA-cam! What an idiot!
Whilei understand why they do it , i too find it annoying when people break up a complete item up and sell it in separate lots.
There are people who see dollar sign and there are people who see history, the dollar sign people run everything for their greed.
The counter to that is when you have one part (or only one part that is working) and you are trying to find the other. I don't think there is one right answer
I HATE the people who destroy old equipment, just to harvest valuable parts or precious metals. They don't care about the history of computing and are just aiming to line their own pockets. These keyboar collectors are the same.
Yep. I mean, if part of the machine is irretrievably broken, fine. Or if they've listed it for years at a reasonable price and nobody wants it, do what you gotta do. But don't split stuff up right out of the gate because you know that keyboard is where the money's at.
This terminal setup should end up in the TWA museum.
The keyboard side of the internet is always so strange to me. The same groups that drive up the price of old beasts like this also show off their 40% keyboards that cost more than a new model M.
New Model M stuff from Unicomp is like $120 shipped or something. "Nice" small keyboards have cost a lot more than this since the mid 2000's
There is basically cross shopping or overlap happening between vintage nerds and new production custom Cherry MX derived nerds. There isn't even any overlap between vintage Alps people and reclaimed Alps in a new chassis people, either. The vintage market has been going nuts since 2014-2015 when former Ewaste that couldn't even be given away for free was finally found to be really good. Custom keyboards started to pop off with the board Taeha built for Tfue right when the pandy started to pop off.
@FeintMotion First of all I'm not what you'd call a "keyboard guy" I just hate mushy keys. Keyboard guys will complain that Unicomp's Model M isn't as good as the original, which was a fair argument until Unicomp invested in new tooling and beefed up the steel backplate in the "New Model M". I have an original 1986 Model M and the New Model M and they are slightly different but pretty close, and close enough AFAIC, Main difference is the PVC shell on the original is stiffer than the plastic they use in the Unicomp models but apparently this is due to EPA rules. A lot of the other things they complain about like blemishes on the back where the internal supports are exist on my original Model M too.
@@atomicskull6405 They're making them in the US?
A few years ago I bought a 1950's reel to reel called a Gramdeck. It fits onto the turntable of a radio-gram and on 78 rpm it plays tapes at 7 1/2 ips. It needs it's own special pre-amp that plugs in to the radio. But the listing only had the mechanism. It turned out that the seller had split the two items into different listings. Luckily I found out and managed to make a deal for both. But it really annoyed me. You could see they went together, they had the same red boxes with Gramdeck logos on them.
Two old-school minicomputer makers, Burroughs and Sperry, merged to become UNISYS in the 80s. Commentators say: "The #4 and #5 makers merge to become the #9 position in the computer industry."
Lol. I think someone said that about the merger of Nash etc into American Motors too.
The seller appears to be one of those estate sale vultures. It's really sad to look at some of the other listings by the same seller in these cases.
The worst part of this is that you know the keyboard isn't going to end up being used, anyway. The only reason for the "keyboard guys" to buy this is because it looks cool, and for bragging rights. If they actually went through the trouble of rewiring it to work with a modern computer, they'd quickly discover that the lack of ergonomics make it extremely uncomfortable to type on for any length of time. After all, why do you think UNIX commands are so heavily abbreviated (ls, cp, mv, etc.)? It's because the keyboards back in the late '60s/early '70s were awful to type on!
Oh, is that so? Is that the worst part?
@@pikadroo UNIX commands and output were also very terse because communication speeds (110 or 300 baud) and mechanical teletypes were very slow, and you didn't want to use up that much ink and paper.
@@vwestlife so the baud is the worst part? Or the short commands? So there was a more worse part?
@@pikadroo Yes I think he said that was the worst part. Actually, yes, I just re-read his opening sentence and it seems he did say it was the worst part. So for him, it definitely is the worst part. You question the veracity without adding anything to the discussion.
Not all keyboard enthusiasts are like this. Of course I say this with a number of keyboards in drawers, but that's from a lack of space, not a lack of interest.
"I didn't know they were that important."
kind of like having a Picasso, not recognzing it, but hey, that frame looks valuable, so pull the canvas, sell the frame and put the painting up for sale as wall paper or packing material.
I have to wonder if it's ignorance, laziness, or just plain greed (I'm not as gracious as TTTraveler is) that so little effort was put into trying to identify this unique piece of hardware and its place in computing history.
IMHO, it's one thing to want make some kind of a return on your time and effort in finding gems like this, but to not even bother trying to assess the historical value of a matched suite of hardware just to exploit the "free market" for a few bucks is just a contemporary version of raiding archeological sites.
well mostly it's demand and making a buck than anything else. people don't want to pay for the painting but they want the frame for 'reasons'. the frame, or rather the nails in the frame are the precious historical magic artifact they want to use for some magic spell that will make their experience so much much more better and finally unlock their creative potential in with those magical nails, thus there is demand for them that is seemingly practicality based but really just cool beliefs based. the perceived life altering usability of the nails spikes the price up.
due to the kb guys being.. a little bit illogical lets say.. it wouldn't be surprising if you can get more money for the keyboard than the combined lot (some people only want to pay for the part they want, even if it makes no actual sense).
you know what's cringe? people who can't touchtype buying mechanical keyboards. people who code. who can't touchtype. buying mechanical keyboards and putting them on risers on a desk and lecturing you about ergnomics...
That one is simple: greed.
@@lasskinn474 i’ve got another cringe for ya. When those same people finish the ergonomics lecture then whine and complain about the ‘mushy keys’ and ‘poor design’ and then just roast the company or people that designed and built the thing. People long since dead who may not even remember having anything to do with it but in most all cases are not around to defend their work. Someone making comments who has never designed a thing or been to any engineering school, never built anything on budget.
Ya know, what the hell is the point of that? What’s that all about?
Then you got one hundred other 2-bit youtube channels just regurgitating the same tired speech.
Just the worst.
100% agreed with you - it's really sad that many of the keyboard guys don't know/care about splitting such systems. It would be fantastic if something like crowdfunding could purchase both items and ensure they stay together. Sadly I'm not rich, but if I were, I'd definitely be trying to preserve vintage systems - especially ones as rare as this.
I had an idea for a vintage computer co-op that bought and shared/rotated stuff around to members. But seeing the disasters with shipping lately and the cost I suppose that would be impractical.
@@TechTimeTraveller that’s a great idea! If the network were big enough. Shipping could be carried out by members.
And by members i mean card carrying due paying members. Not people raising their hands saying ‘i am involved’ and absolutely there has to be a way to bar 8-bit youtubers from control in such a group because if ya dont it jist becomes a youtube platform extension.
These "keyboard guys" sound like the hipsters who buy antique typewriters...just to take them apart and take off the keys for decoration. 😠 I couldn't believe anyone was doing that, but apparently it actually is a thing. I HATE hipsters.
I once bought a complete Apple IIgs system from a hippie who had already set about parting it out (though they hadn’t already sold anything). My argument was that they “wanted” to be together. I told them they don’t have to sell it to me, but please keep them together. Amazingly I convinced them.
This reminds me: Deskauthority has an interesting two-parter on an IBM 5251 bisync terminal that was saved and put into service - without modification - as a Raspberry Pi console. Proof that you don't need the entire hardware suite (like a System/3x) to show off some of the capabilities of a gem like this.
I can't post the link, but ggl for Deskauthority IBM 5251 terminal to see what can be done, admittedly with time, effort, a bit of patience, and some hardware and software, to keep gems like the 5251 from ending up like this TWA/Burroughs terminal.
I had that same thought of keyboard guys and audiophile guys being cut from the same cloth earlier this week. Like yeah, there is nuance to be appreciated, but after a certain point I am just going to start thinking you are trying to justify dropping a lot of money.
Just to defend my hobby here a bit, while we audiophiles might buy a ton of expensive things, very few of us take things apart or destroy stuff for parts.
Audiophiles into diy might buy parts but most try to make things work again. Regarding buying things, it's a hobby we don't really need to justify why we enjoy buying gear, in the end it's our money. Peace and best regards. 🎩
@@wethermon Tell that to all the C64 without SID chips. Here locally it's easier to get a C64 without a SID than with one, and I've had loads of audiophiles argue that the only thing the C64 should be used for is to harvest a SID.
In my expirience the audiophiles are happy just to rip things apart, granted only if it's a chip that's easily usable and and getable. They, luckily, seem to fear desoldering guns and wick as as well as more integrated chips.
@@relo999 there are always some problematic individuals in all hobbies, but alas.
My hobby has enough problems as is already, just wanted to share the view from the other side of the fence. Anyway best regards. 🎩
The take that I've gotten from the keyboard guys that have no overlap with the computer collecting guys is basically "at least this worthless obsolete thing will now be used"...but that's kind of ignoring the history, rarity, and the computer collectors out there who value something for its intended purpose rather than seeing something purely for its switches and turning it into a generic piece of modern computer equipment that feels nice to use. I kind of equate it to the "junk" "repurpose" whatever you wanna call it style people. They see an "old" piece of furniture, paint it some bland grey color, feel creative and think they've given something a new lease on life...but that's from a mindset that may be ignoring the fact that that piece of furniture on its own, in original condition, was sought-after, valuable, and some minor repairs away from being something that means a lot to a certain person. From one perspective it's making something "worthless" "valuable" again, and from the other it's making something valuable worthless.
TL;DR...basically some see it as a "righteous" move. "nobody" wants this thing, so i'll give it a home. If only they knew that there are thousands of us nobodies out there that DO still want the thing...and the thing that it connects to.
In fairness, on the other end people insist old furniture can never be restored and you will destroy the value.
It is frustrating when it is an exceptional piece like this, of course, and I absolutely believe THIS SPECIFIC MACHINE shouldn't have been separated. But in general, both viewpoints have merit.
Would I rather see an old Commodore 64 used AS a Commodore 64 instead of turned into a Raspberry Pi? Absolutely. But are they wrong to want a modern computer that looks like a Commodore 64? Nah.
I'd rather they do this sort of thing to common machines, of course. Preferably ones that are already broken. But they aren't inherently wrong.
The keyboard guys are a special breed and I really don't understand why they want what they want, on a fundamental level. But I won't say they're wrong for wanting to use '60s terminal keyboards on their modern computers.
@@CptJistuce Oh yeah, I have no issue with the plentiful items being used however people want. There are enough model Ms on this planet to satiate every keyboard nut hundreds of times over. Used to trip over those things at surplus stores. It's when it's some obscure one-off keyboard with a strange protocol and connector that even THEY most likely will be able to get to interface with USB or whatever that it becomes truly frustrating. The wrong person will give up and potentially trash the keyboard, meanwhile it's one less proprietary board in circulation making the matching machine completely worthless.
That being said, I have benefited from the keyboard guys before. I sadly have found a few orphan boards that went with systems or terminals that were completely un-googleable, cleaned them, and made a lot of profit on ebay. It hurts to see these mystery boards that go to a system that there may only be one or two left of on the planet, but if nobody knows what it goes to and it still ends up staying away from the recycler, it's hard to be mad at that.
@@CptJistuce and I will take a million keyboard guys separating keyboards from their respective systems over one single gold-harvesting scrapper type...
@@buttguy Oh god, the scrappers... them I won't defend, particularly as they're far more likely to get ahold of something rare.
I have the same gripe about seeing old chips and such being sold for the sake of being melted down for gold, expressly marked as such in the listings. When the chips can be worth more to someone than the gold inside the units as whole chips for vintage systems. Some of which are not easy to find anymore. The parting out of stuff when it doesn't need it is frustrating to say the least. Something busted beyond reasonable repair (such as shattered housings, broken glass, etc) is one thing but a good condition matched set is another matter.
It gets into the range of scalpers hording stuff from the hands of normal paying customers just to flip it for a profit. Prices that can push the reasonably affordable into "toys for the rich" just because of forced scarcity and captive market. Video games are in that sucky location right now where games that used to be had for $10-20 secondhand are now pushing $50, $70, or more even for relatively common titles in incomplete condition due to speculators and traders. All while some of us just want to play the games on original hardware without going broke doing it.
Recyclers are nice. Scrappers aren't. Recyclers won't always throw out perfectly good stuff.
You put this argument very nicely. If you buy some terminal or something, sure build an adapter so you can use the keyboard on a modern pc. But keep the parts together so it can run like it did originally.
Two words: gold salvagers... *growls angrily*
There's more gold inside the terminal on the circuit boards inside. And why would a gold salvager sell either part whole?
This reminds me of my hate for people who get vintage games graded. I suppose actual rare sealed copies would be one thing, since there really is no collector out there who would open them, but seeing sealed copies of Super Mario Bros that people are trying to sell for tens of thousands of dollars because they're sealed in a plexiglass case is just incredibly aggravating. Complete in box games and loose games are even worse, since I used to collect complete in box games for the fun of actually opening them up, reading the manuals, etc. Now the prices of these dumb graded copies have made the prices for non-graded ones shoot up past their previously already inflated pricing. Other than buying through friends who are downsizing collections, I don't think I've bought a vintage console game in almost a decade because of this. Actually, my latest purchase was in fact the garbage pail kids game on NES, the one that was just recently released lol. At this point, I'm just in the process of getting the money together to just use rom carts so I don't have to worry about game prices anymore, and also so I don't end up with some ridiculous collection of games I'll barely be able to actively play.
@Tech Time Traveller As for saving this piece of history, I have one word for you: Qapla'! (Klingon)
Also, I feel your pain with trying to preserve history via these vintage machines. As time goes on, it will be increasingly difficult to keep this going unless people start to actually care about our technological history more than $$$, which will *never* happen. *HUFF/SIGH* Believe me, I do have some choice words in mind myself...
Great video. I collect vintage test equipment and also use it, and this type of thing happens with this gear as well. People will take old Tektronix and HP vacuum tube test gear like old oscilloscopes and completely clean out all the tubes (audiophiles pay big money for them) and dump the carcass. I don't even want to get started on gold scrappers, who will rip old test gear and old computers to shreds for every spec of gold, silver, and even tantalum they can find. I remember watching a scrapper video a while back on UA-cam that had found an original Compaq portable that had some cracks in the plastic and a bit of rust, and he completely dismembered and destroyed it for gold recovery. People are really ignorant.
This is reminiscent of the people who buy up Commodore 64 machines just to harvest the SID chips, remdering a perfectly useable machine . well, practically useless in terms of its original capabilities. But, there's no SID alternative for something like this, which you featured here.
Reminds me of the travesties with rare old tellies which end up being turned in to fish tanks.
Well, your observations made me instantly subscribe… I didn’t know this was that big of an issue, and if I ever catch some friend mindlessly ranting about vintage keyboards I’ll ask them about the machines to check for their reaction, so clearly you’re doing a good job at least on raising awareness on this topic.
Honestly, I really feel that seller is _not_ a good person. This isn't just a hobby thing. Like you said, this deserves to be in a museum. They're unique historical artefacts, and no one should pass that off just to make a quick buck.
It's an epidemic. As a hard drive collector, how do you think I feel seeing people turning rare and interesting drives (which are working or repairable!) into "platter art"?
bruh, separating two or more things that are made to stay together is the worst thing anyone can do
Similar, people keep separating macintosh plus from their keyboards. Since they can only use those ones it's a real pain to get a functioning system.
Just a from reading the tagline, I thought "keyboard guy" was referring to some hacker who would take a lovely older terminal with an old-style keyboard and refit it internally with Cherry MX switches or some such - but as I watched with horror, oh, no, this is far worse than that kind of guy
Unrelated, but also VERY related. Scrappers. My heart sinks seeing how much they amass. Things I’ve been looking for for freaking AGES…. Just mutilated and destroyed for the metals. One redeeming factor of this is that these metals are being recycled, but at what cost? Computer Reset was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and I tried to leave with as much as would fit in my hatchback, but I’m still kicking myself for not grabbing some other things I saw. I luckily got to make three trips there and found some amazing systems that make me smile every time turn them on. I wish scrappers knew the value of what they’re destroying 😢
I never understood the reason why those keyboard guys just go there and rip the one-of-a-kind keyboard from the machines they belong to, only to turn them into yet another USB keyboard. Like, stop it. You already have like 10 million of them, stop doing it. Leave it for others.
I would also add that while I am a keeb guy myself, I focus on making new keyboards that look like old ones, not tearing apart and destroying the past.
Vintage keyboard enthusiasts hate scrappers. I would know, I'm a vintage keeb person. I love the idea of using old ass, sometimes gargantuan sized keyboards on a modern PC. To me, there's zero harm in that, because most of us will sell the keyboard if we don't want it. It ain't being broken down into parts unless it's a complete restoration.
Holy hell I've been trying to remember the name of that Winchester 34-pin connector since 1998!
Not quite the same thing, but I have very often seen hardware and accessories parted-out at thrift shops. Sometimes donations are divided between multiple locations. The goal is to maximize the amount of revenue generated.
There are usually piles of random keyboards at such shops, though I have never paid any attention to them (as I have no need for nor interest in them).
Oh no I've bought a keyboard for my desktop at the thrift shop before I really hope it wasn't anything that important it did say Dell on it.
Don't tell me my phone doesn't listen to me. Yesterday, I was complaining about this to my wife because I'm have 2 Tandy 1000s with no keyboard, now this morning this pops up from a few days ago.
Don’t get me started on SID CHIP GUYS.
It sucks dude. When that keyboard showed up, I didn't realise that the seller also had the original terminal up for sale. I'm only a vintage keyboard collector, but nonetheless it pains me so much to see a historical object like this get split apart. It might not be much consolation, but please know that there are lots of vintage keyboard collectors that go to great lengths to avoid splitting systems/terminals from their respective keyboards. A lot of us understand the historical importance + rarity, and don't want to take that away from the world.
A lot of us flat out won't do it, unless something's been up for sale for a very long time, or unless something's broken. For example, I'd really love to find a Xerox Star keyboard, but I'd never dream of splitting it from a Dandelion. Not just that - there are plenty of collectors that have paid $100s, sometimes nearing $1000s, to get an entire system/terminal shipped internationally. Just to keep the set complete, just to avoid it being split apart. Even when adapting old keyboards for use on modern machines, there's a growing pattern of people doing so in the least destructive way possible - for example with the recent influx of Nabu Z80s, an individual designed an adapter in such a way that none of the original parts need to be removed or modified. The same goes for xwhatsit's beamspring controller.
But sadly, for things like this to happen, it only takes some of us.
Yup.. I didn't want to insult the entire keyboard community.. just had a bone to pick with the slightly nuttier ones who do destructive things and cause situations like what happened with this terminal. The terminal is just going to sit there on ebay now because the seller won't accept a token amount for a part that is totally unusable thanks in part to their actions. I made an offer to save it.. but at a low price because of the missing keyboard, which it'll never get back again. But he's not willing to accept that reality yet. Probably it wont sell and will get recycled. *That's* the stuff that makes me angry. I mean I get everyone has to make a living but geez.. when you've got both parts right there...
@@TechTimeTraveller Don't worry, you didn't insult the community at all. All of your gripes are reasonable as hell. I don't think it's a pattern anyone enjoys seeing. Let's hope that the seller is as stubborn as many eBay sellers, and he doesn't give up on selling it for a long, long time - hopefully he'll get worn down after a while :)
I'm thankful I only have the bug to obtain, restore (if necessary), and appreciate when it comes to vintage Atari and handheld games. Never knew how large the keyboard hobby was. Thanks for bringing this to light.
the comparison to "audiophile" numbskulls is spot on. can't think of a better match
You most certainly can power on the mindset without the keyboard. If you jumper the 2 pins on the keyboard connector you can power the thing on, no keyboard required. It wouldn't be especially difficult to mount a power switch on a small project box with a cable poking out that could be plugged into the keyboard port and you'd have a non-destructive way to power on units without keyboards. If you're willing to do a bit of soldering to the machine itself you could simply solder a toggle switch across the relay that's connected to the power supply and use that switch to power the system.
Folks absolutely shouldn't be separating the boards from the mindsets but it's trivially easy to power the unit on without the keyboard. Saying that it's "impossible" is simply not true.
To bad they didn't think it to sell it to the TWA Hotel at JFK. It could've been preserved and put on display there. I'm betting they would have paid a nice price as well.
Also, in the late 90s, Delta still owned and operated a system called Worldspan-PARS which I used daily at work. Although it is now owned by another company, Worldspan is still used by travel, agencies, airlines, and as a back up for rates and availability for Expedia. Although it has a GUI interface, most travel agents still use the old green screen all-text interface as it is actually faster than lifting your hands from the keyboard to use a mouse.
i have a 1985 ibm ps2 keyboard and i want to make it bluetooth capable so i will make a adaptor from ps2 to bluetooth and i wont gutt it (so if anyone in the future wants to convert it back they just need to unplug my mod)
Mechanical switches are still being made new to this day. Why do they have to destroy old keyboards for them? I am damn sure any 40 year old springs or contacts in there can't possibly be better than a fresh one.
As they have switches they like, they go full on pressure graphs and all that comparing them. Personally it's like the people that are really into salt or water, we all can recognize shitty water and salt but how many people can really differentiate between table salt and pink Himalaya salt freshly mined by a monk on a vow of silence for a decade?
I will admit to being a keyboard guy, but I will spend hundreds to _BUILD_ something _ENTIRELY NEW_ using new switches and new custom keycaps, and a custom plate I designed with a layout of my own choosing... If I'm gonna use an old keyboard, I want it to be intact. I found an old Sperry Rand UNIVAC Uniscope 100 terminal keyboard. I would never want to daily drive that thing, but it could be interesting for a light duty application... Even more than I am a keyboard guy... _I AM AN OLD COMPUTER_ guy even more! I'd love nothing more than to find the matching terminal monitor half to go with that old keyboard. I love keeping stuff together! I bought a Wang 360SE once, and was DEVASTATED to find out that the seller gutted the nixies to sell separately, and then *_THREW AWAY_* the old PC boards from the keyboard & display unit! AAAHHHH!!!! If I had the boards, I probably could have restored them with either on hand nixies, or alternative ones. Now that device is a paperweight! I'm just grateful the guy didn't rip out the core memory from the main unit! I have PARTS of an ANITA MK8... but not an MK8. I can't fault that seller though. that's how he acquired the parts... it was someone else that gutted the vintage machine and sold the boards off cause they had nixies... He had just been trying to buy the parts for repairs and ended up with extras.
I can't tell you how infuriation it is to see something separated like this... I see the keyboard in the spotlight of this vid went up to 1.6k... _YIKES..._ Here's to hoping a very well off patron maybe snagged it, But I have my doubts.
As someone who is a vintage computer guy, keyboard guy, AND audiophile, I don't get why people do this. I just want a keyboard that's nice to type on, why are people buying ridiculously old computer keyboards that likely suck? I would like them as a vintage computer nerd, but not because I want to type on them. I only ever really use new stuff in relation to keyboards and headphones, because newer _usually_ means better, it's just how technology works. It's really frustrating to see a big piece of computer history split apart like this, and basically doomed to be destroyed.
Some old keyboards are amazing to type on. Keyboards until recently continued to use worse and worse switch types. Now in 2023, there's been a resurgence in original, non-MX type switches again, meaning you can build a modern keyboard that's just as good as any Alps board.
Maybe, just maybe, if we want that these particular museum worthy pieces of history to be preserved we can stay alert.
Comunicate the findings to the community, fund a computer museum with interest on the piece and outbid the "normal" keyboard collectors?
There must be some way for the retro community that want to preserve history to fight this.
I'm a keyboard enthusiast, but I'm not a fan of harvesting switches. I find no issue with somebody using a IBM Beam Spring keyboard on a modern PC, it's your money. It's not like keeping a keyboard separate is destructive. But tearing boards apart and gutting it is a different story. Vintage keyboard enthusiasts tend to restore old keyboards and document them and their switches, not destroy them.
Except keeping a keyboard separate is destructive. Outside the world of XT/AT/PS2/USB removing a keyboard from a computer is often functionally bricking the computer as more often than not there is no alternative. I've seen loads of vintage keyboard guys modify old keyboards to use USB but I haven't seen any document communication protocols and such things, because quite frankly most often they can't due to missing critical hardware to do so, the computer.
(And that's assuming they don't just harvest switches from a working board or in the case of some micro's harvest the keyboard or just mod it for use on USB, which some certainly do)
Documented switches and PCB's are nice and all but they won't make the computer usable. And that's the main issue I see with the keyboard people, they don't care what's on the other side of the cord as long as they can do the klicky-klacky they'll be happy. While the keyboard people don't always destroy keyboards to harvest things (some certainly do), they do functionally destroy what's on the other side the cord.
I've always wanted to be a "keyboard guy" but I've never been prepared to separate them from where they belong.
Thank you.
Maybe not as historic or tragic as this case, but I can't count the number of times that I've seen one auction for a case, one more for a motherboard, and then one for a keyboard. All from the same seller, all separated from each other just to make more profit. Makes me sigh every time. :(
I actually wasn't aware that these 'keyboard guys' are a thing. It never occurred to me that one wants just the keyboard.
Oh it's a thing.. heh. :) And I do get where they're coming from - a lot of these keyboards are really cool looking, or they type nice. The keyboard is the one piece of a computer you interact directly with a lot. Sometimes I walk by my own machines and just type a few keys for the heck of it. Totally get it. Just hate the side effects when prices get crazy.
...and now you know to post even your broken nonfunctional keyboards for sale rather than tossing them out... ;-)
@@TechTimeTraveller it's the one thing that never truly goes obsolete, just the interface they use goes outdated
Your bemoaning IS begrudgement! But I totally get it. I was in the Keyboard hobby for a long while and I saw what you're talking about a lot and I didn't like it. In all my other collecting hobbies I always error on the side of preservation. So Seeing people rip old vintage hardware apart for modern projects really felt wrong to me. I would have rather enjoyed the cool old keyboards on the systems they were designed for. But that's not really possible. SO I lost interest in the hobby, now I just use model Ms and I'm happy....
Referring to collecting cookie jars, i have a kitchen canister titled "biscuits" which raises quizzical eyebrows (desired effect) until i explain it's from the U.K.
If I had a retro computer with a keyboard I'd be looking into ways of cloning that keyboard.
If you can modify a cheap USB keyboard all the better.
Even rip out the USB and install a microcontroller to make it PS2 compatible.
Keyboards fail often so making a spare saves you from competing with "those guys".
Interesting story behind that Burroughs terminal. I like the portrait configuration of the terminal (guess the layout would be good for an old school passenger reservation system).
dude, they put lube on their switches so it's definitively a kink.
I have the exact same laments you do with today's vintage car community where people are starting to divorce bits and pieces from historically interesting vehicles in perfect shape that really should have stayed together and left unmolested, while at the same time feeling it's totally understandable not to begrudge others of their hobby.. But I digress. Doesn't make it any less irritating though 🤣
However, I completely agree and think what *should* be thought of as criminal is divorcing pieces of interesting wholes solely for the sake of "investment capitalism" (not my term). That I have a serious problem with; Nobody wins but the sellers; Not the hobbyist, not the historian, certainly not the collectors. Just my 2 cents on it
"keyboard fetishists" - the lot of them are invited to expire in a rapid, uncontrolled exothermic reaction. Twice.
About the IBM 5251 beamspring keyboard you showed - I was a System/36 and AS/400 programmer and those things SUCK.
I used a 3196 terminal instead, which is also a victim of keyboard mania, as seen by the ebay "monitor only" sales.
HOWEVER - in 1990 I bought a System/36, the 5364 "baby 36" which is a bit larger than a PC and fortunately not the size of a small car.
Included with the 5364 was a 5160 IBM XT with the adapter card which is required to boot the 5364.
And a 3476 terminal, which is even nicer than the 3196.
AND AN ABSOLUTELY MINT, LIKE NEW, 5251 terminal with NO BURN IN, and yes, the MINTY FRESH keyboard.
Every time I look on ebay to see what the 5251 is selling for, it's always just a horribly burned screen with no keyboard.
I paid $125 for the lot, but I am willing to sell it all now.
$50k starting bid.
In camera collecting there is a similar issue of people removing lenses from old cameras. They will buy old cameras, then remove the lens and list it on the auction site for a ridiculous sum. For cameras with common lens mounts this isn't so bad, because replacing the lens or finding a compatible one isn't too hard. For rare or older cameras however, it becomes infuriating, as finding the right lens will now cost you much more, and take much longer - if it is even possible to find a replacement. People use these old lenses on digital cameras, which I don't have a problem with, but I also think it's a bit nonsensical when new lenses out-perform the vintage glass, and the cost of the old lenses has risen to the point where it actually costs more to buy some old lens, which may be damaged in some way (scratched, moldy, hazy, etc.) than a new one.
While I had no idea there were keyboard fanatics, I can't blame the seller. If you think they shouldn't be separated then pony up the cash to keep it together and give the seller a reasonable offer.
Maybe trade a big stack of model M's. VCF might could do crowd funding to buy this kind of stuff.
Southwest still uses these.
I think this comment deserves more thumbs up than it has. Just sayin'.
I get it from the keyboard guys point of view, its cool to have a retro tool to type on, but its absolutely sacrilegious to gut these things. Surely you could just make an Arduino adapter to convert it to USB, leaving the internals intact?
That’s what I did with a vintage bus mouse: got the obsolete connector that mated with the one on the cable, and made an adapter to USB HID. No changes to the historical artifact that mouse was. The mouse itself came from old stock that was not tied to any computer thankfully - otherwise I’d get that too.
That's what vintage keyboard enthusiasts do. We don't scrap keyboards. This video is talking about the morons on Reddit that build shitty custom keyboards with switches pillaged off rare keyboards. It's fucking disgusting, especially now that there's more currently manufactured switch designs available now than ever before, including brand new beam spring and optical switches.
This thing belongs in 2 different kinds of museums, if I'm being honest.... what a shame.
And I notice it dates to before 'key' and 'board' merged into a single word! :-)
I thought the Borroughs TD830 keyboards of the time were hall-effect keyboards, very unique tactility, used to work on them back-when, wasn't a "keyboard guy" so didn't pay attention. surprised that Burroughs would not use hall-effect on this "George" keyboard. TD830 was a pretty cool system, lots of terminals were addressable, off a single twisted pair cable that just went-around the room, forget it they were daisy-chained or just wired in parallel, terminals were all independently set with TDI protocol addresses.
Please make a follow up regarding your progress on this.
Even if they were sold together, a keyboard collector would likely buy both, and tell the seller to only ship the keyboard as the terminal had no value to him, and then the seller would end up listing it on its own anyway.
Unfortunately historical items of all types are destroyed every single day. The sadest part is many items are destroyed for current trend art projects and whatnot. This is just a current trend and will some day fade out and these destroyed items will end up as waste. I have no idea really how to get people to not "chop up" history. It just makes me sad. I also didn't know the keyboard hobby was so large. I know I would love a historic style keyboard but also I would like custom ones. I was thinking about having a go at a model m reproduction but I would need access to a much larger 3d printer then I have. But it will be made from all new parts.
Based, if I had more money I'd start doing that out of spite
A couple of years ago I found a Wyse terminal with a color display (probably 1990s) on the curb during a bulk collection week, in what seems to be working condition. (Spoiler: they don't take CRTs anyhow.) And no keyboard. Yeah, someone harvested that keyboard, I've read that some of them use nice mechanical switches.
At least the protocol is documented and I could probably emulate it, so it's on my long to-do list to build a keyboard for it. And I have a few properly useless keyboards too, like a wireless non-BT keyboard with off-brand mech switches and full diodes, that I could drive with a microcontroller.
Wow! A consumer airline had more computing power on its ticket booking system in 1968 than the NASA moon lander had in 1969!!
Thats what is happening in the moment with the NABU PC :(
I hate it, to be honest. :(
Heh.. there's been a lot of buying and flipping. Not sure how you resell for $200 when the original vendor is right beside you selling for $79.
Keyboard guy and Nabu PC owner here, I've held onto the original machine and all the other keyboard people that I know of have held onto theirs too since the machines are so rare and there's a working NABU network now. We're not the only ones who drove the price up on that one either lol.
Thanks for doing the research. That's one win, at least.
I don't get the love for keyboards, I've tried the "best" examples that keyboard guys obsess over, and it's like this doesn't improve my life at all.
I just don't get it.
I like to design custom keyboards for older computers, since I like both
This is not unique to PCs.
I've been into tube radios for some time and I'm still into HiFi.
I discovered that some audiophiles strip certain radios for the transformers and tubes, then just trashing the rest of it.
Because of the tube shortage tubes have become quite expensive, but I still don't get it... since tubes are basically the only real wear part in those older radios (sure transformers and papercaps also wear out eventually).
The keyboard on the Burroughs is unpleasant to type on. True collectors only care about keyboards with a pleasant typing feel, not due to its vintage.
I have the same keyboard in my TVT and you're right.. its ok for the first five minutes but any extended typing would definitely be a slog!
Yup, finding a ibm model m 1391401 is stupid expensive
About a year ago, I found a complete IBM PS/2 Model 55SX system at a flea market I frequent. It came with the desktop, IBM 8514 CRT monitor, mouse, and yes, the Model M keyboard. It was a bit pricey, but it was worth it to have the complete setup - I had been on the hunt for a PS/2 in the wild for *years*. I'm friends with the vendor who sold it to me, and they told me that someone had attempted to just buy the Model M off of them earlier in the day. While I have plenty of PS/2-protocol keyboards to spare, I still rolled my eyes when I heard that.
I have one of these weird keyboards, an Allied Bunker Ramo Information Systems, and I was like, what the heck did this office or POS did this come from. On the back it says S-90 Admin keyboard. Some research indicates it was a bank control terminal... Bank Control System 90.
When fetching it just now I just found out I had an Apple IIgs in my massive pile of antique 8bits. I had no idea I had a IIgs. And all sorts of stuff from my trash collecting in the 1990's when people were throwing this stuff away by the pickup truck load.
Provides a descriptive overview of Bunker Ramo's new System 90, "a modular on-line bank floor terminal, transaction processor, and communuications control system...using minicomputer-controlled CRT display stations and other terminal devices developed specifially for bank floor use."
Mine is the English version of the keyboard, and probably circa 1982ish... if judging by a sticker on the picture of the German keyboard, and the fact it has Allied name on it who bought Bunker Ramo in 1981. So no earlier than 1981.
Nowhere near my oldest computer hardware for sure, but very out of the ordinary thing to end up with... and it stood out, because of it's now odd RS-232 type pin connector.
So sort of like this one: deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=13994 ?
@@TechTimeTraveller Yep, that's the one, and the page I found, but mine is English layout. I thought it would be older and belong to one of those minifridge sized minicomputers... (I've had one of those... took 25 minutes to boot!) but apparently this was a bank terminal of some sorts that sprung off of their developments of military computers and the forerunners of NASDAQ and things like Quotron Terminals.
Oddly, I got it from a stash of antique 8 bits gotten from Savannah River Sight Nuclear Plant... some old guy had bought as decommissioned surplus to extract all the screws from them. Fortunately, he never got around to that, died, and his wife contacted me to clear out his shop because she was going to have her sons throw it all away.
I stepped in and it was like stepping into an Indianna Jones barnfind motherload of antique 8bits. Imagine inheriting the 8bit guys antique collection. But I only had a few days. In fact on the last day her sons showed up to start the job.
I grabbed everything I could loaded up in pickup trucks I use to dream of and was collectible... and had to leave a lot of non-computer stuff behind... tons of typewriters that if I had known it, I would of grabbed to donate to prison libraries for inmates to use.
I forget when this was, 25 years ago... they were all obsolete antiques by then from the late 70's and early 80's... I stuffed them in my own time capsule barn with an ocean of PC's and Macs and they've been there ever since.
To be fair, if someone gave me a nice classic mechanical keyboard, I would replace the internal electronics and keep the rest of original parts and key switches, basically to give it a second wind, and originality retained as much as humanly possible - because I abhor membrane keyboards (too mushy for my likings and in my experience, they almost never last).
Yet, rages towards people messing up old computers are justified in a way because some computers obviously have historical significance, that I would prefer the original keyboard to stay with the computer that were purchased altogether. At least DIY keyboard kits exist so no need to tear into otherwise functional keyboard (if it's already broken - like smoked microcontroller which is unlikely but can happen, it's understandable however).
Good luick in your endeavor, sir. Is there a way the community could support your effort?
I think I'll just see if this will fit in my budget.. then enjoy it for a while and see about getting it to a museum or such. The channel brings in ad revenue each month and I can sell something to offset. Long as it doesn't go into thousand plus territory. I found an ad in Byte (June 1977) where someone was selling these as regular terminals for home computer use. Unfortunately I think this one is missing the box that has the terminal brains in it, so it'll be a static piece.
@@TechTimeTraveller Are you going to bid for the screen as well?
@@GianmarioScotti I will go for the screen yes if I can secure the keyboard.
What are those staggered-pin plugs like on that Burroughs keyboard called? I've got a floppy drive from the 70s using a larger version of this for its host interface, and I'd like to get hold of the original connector instead of having to solder a more modern plug onto the board..
Does the seller also have the Mainframe computer this terminal connected to?
(I know... just replace it with a RasPi)
No.. the mainframe was huge and apparently took up a whole floor of a building. I'm sure Burroughs repurposed it.. probably to military. I think it was based on the D825 or something like that.
Another thing it’s also annoying that there are so many C64s out there are getting recapped for no other reason then its one of these fetishes people have.
Inexperienced people (kids/hipsters) taking apart machines soldering things they know not what. Breaking cases that are too brittle to be screwed back together. Putting it in ebay for $500 as untested dunno if it works when they know fill well they screwed it up and its worthless.
Don't get me started about recapping, so many recaps people want or do are completely unnecessary. And general poor repairs. Have been doing repairs/mods/etc. for 15+ years at this point. So many people think they can just follow any random guide and think they have gold, so many of those can't even solder and so many repairs/mods/etc. either are fundamentally flawed and just barely "work". And what's worse is that the "repair" youtuber and "modding" youtuber perpetuate that shit and claim massive profits while only showing "cool" mods and repairs that are awful for the console or computer. All while bitching about other people's, sometimes proper, repairs or mods because "hurr durr no recap" or are in reality just as shit as what they're doing.
That's not even touching the Amiga fanbase that some of which seem to think you'd need to recap a Amiga every few years, just replace the shitty stock ones and you're fine. Good quality capacitors can last for more than half a century, but somehow people got it in their minds that any and all caps don't last much longer than a decade and in some cases only last years.
The thing I hate most is easily the "internal battery mods". Not only is there a good chance of destroying things and never have proper safety precautions build in, but when it fails it has a tendency to end in a hard to extinguish fireball. "but hurr durr it hasn't gone wrong with me yet".
These people first need to learn how to solder, follow a trace and be able to differentiate a diode from a resistor before touching electronics they don't understand.
I feel like if you really looked at some of these 8-bit channels and documented them the way people document a scifi show’s in universe history and lore. You would find the same kind of contradictions you get in the story time lines created across several show writers during a shows run.
Because I swear I have noticed inconsistent statements made many times. If it were tracked then I think it would show these people have no real thoughts of their own they just say whatever they want. No real ‘moral’ compass guiding their choices and statements they make.
For example the California tv repair guy that rejects wholesale capacitor replacement but then does a collaboration with a retro tech guy that just replaces caps in everything to achieve some sort of imagined computer high fidelity.
So clearly it’s not about vintage computers or education or anything other then stuffing the youtubes with content for the money.
Same as this seller on ebay with this keyboard.
It’s my history too. Not just the 8-bit royalties history.
Yeah recapping seems to be kind of a fad. There are some things i recap immediately just based on knowledge (certain SMD caps on Macs that are known to leak for example, or tantlum smurf grenades that are nearly guaranteed to go bang after 40+ years). But otherwise if it works and it's not leaking, I'm a big proponent of leaving it be. Especially if I don't know what I'm doing.
There is no contest that modern, brand name, high-spec electrolytic capacitors will outperform and outlast old ones. So if you want to extend the life of equipment for the future, that sort of recapping is a must. The “pearl drop” tantalum capacitors are also “replace on sight”, since it’s only a question of time before they short and destroy something way more expensive/hard to fix. Same goes for paper-anything capacitors in tube gear: learn from MrCarlson how to evaluate them and the replacements and do replace them or else you’ll kill something more expensive too, like the power transformer. On the other hand, replacing anything without the tools and know-how to do it properly is never a good idea. Recapping without experience in soldering, desoldering, cleaning, and selecting high life high reliability capacitors from major distributors can do more harm than good. Also, good replacement electrolytic capacitors are not cheap and don’t come from AliExpress. Hermetic wet tantalums are even more expensive. Usually when I have those dropsy tantalums in old gear, I replace them with high life low ESR automotive electrolytics that perform better than those tantalums when they were new, and won’t destroy anything.
Like old Tek gear being stripped of its rare tubes.
Once there was an Apple-1 WITH an accompanying keyboard. Apple-1's are not so very common and they are very expensive. An Apple-1 goes from 300 grand up till a million. There are not many Appla-1's but an Apple-1 with the correct keyboard that was with it all along from the time it left the garage in Cupertino. Well, you guessed it already, on Ebay, only the keyboard from an Apple-1 was on sale, it was brutally separated from it's life long companion the Apple-1. Slaughtered by the owner. Maybe owner is a wrong word. The filthy greedy grave-digging vulture would be a better description.
When I mailed the owner he told me that the Apple-1 was sold separately, for the keyboard he asked 50 grand, because it once was connected to an Apple-1. He never thought about the historical value as the complete set. It must be obvious, I did not buy this keyboard. I did not want to be a part of this remake of the separation of Bambi and his mother, that is how it feels!
They're called keyboard poachers.
Also, anyone that used the term "keeb" unironically should be slapped (jk)
I bet TWA was an airline even if we do know.
I like the buckeling spring keyboard. Got an Alps keyboard (sold with computer) due to hype but mech, don’t care for linear switch. I’ll leave the keyboard with the orig. computer
"Bordering almost on fetish," hahaha!
when you buy a terminal sans keyboard tell the seller what a shame it is
lack of a keyboard is also something one should mention when making a lowball offer (for multiple reasons lol)
it really sucks when keyvboards are separated from their machines, like in this case where the terminal is not gonna do much without the rest of the machine
or like with some of my sun microsystems machines where a keyboard will cost 2-3x what the computer does
but as you say, people got the right to do what they want with their stuff and all we can do is inform/educate
Yeah. It's still up on ebay.. he's stubbornly clinging to $399 as his BIN. I'd try making offers to save it but I don't want to reward him.
@@TechTimeTraveller it's a shame. something like that really should be in a museum
"Exact same"? Ha, not quite.
That's disgusting, name and shame the seller. Let's find his address
Yeah, its neigh impossible to find a keyboard for an Amiga 1000, in decent condition, for less than your first born child.