Electric Revolution - The First Generation Electrics
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Hello again! :D
While the Class 86, 87 and 90 are far more renowned as the power behind the West Coast Mainline, these locomotives were based on an evolving design that started way back in 1959 with the first generation of AC electrics, the AL1 to AL5 classes.
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References:
- AC Locomotive Group (and their respective references)
- Wikipedia (and its respective references)
My experience with these locomotives was as a freight train guard, working mainly Freightliner and Air Braked Network (later called "Speedlink") trains between Carlisle and Glasgow Gushetfaulds Freightliner Depot and Mossend. As these trains didn't have brake vans, I was always riding on the locomotive. I worked these trains from about 1973 to 1980, and worked with classes 81 to 86, and occasionally an 87.
I'm a bit surprised that you single out the class 84 for bad riding. I don't think any of the first generation of AC electrics was very good in this respect, but based on the comparatively few occasions I rode on an 84, I actually thought they were better than the average. It seems to me that the 84's weakness was reliability. Of the first three 84s that I saw, two were being hauled dead with their pantographs down. It didn't exactly inspire confidence.
As I recall the worst riding were the 81s. It had been a design specification for the AC electrics that traditional railway leaf springs were unsuitable for 100 mph running. So all these locomotives had coil springs. By the time they built the 86s and the 87s they had worked out how to do it, but the 81s were dreadful, bouncing up and down on their coil springs and occasionally shuddering violently from side to side. I especially recall bouncing down Bellshill Bank on one from Bellshill to Uddingston on jointed track (i.e. not continuous welded rail). For some reason I was travelling passenger and I was joking with the train crew about the amazing quality of the ride. You might as well laugh, or you'd cry. It seemed almost incredible that the powers tat be deemed these engines were suitable for 100 mph running. One Carlisle driver used to take his tea in an unspillable baby cup. My own teacan, made out of an old bean tin, and very good for making tea rapidly in a brake van fire, would be almost empty by the time the train had gone five miles. However I never heard of one becoming derailed at speed, so maybe these locos were better than they felt. As one driver early in the 20th century said about the North British Railway Atlantic, a notoriously bad riding steam locomotive in its day, "You can't coup them -- I've tried it!" ("Coup" or "cowp" is a Scottish word for overturn.)
Despite my complaints, and jokes about London Midland Region guards being issued with calendars rather than watches -- late running south of Carlisle was so prevalent -- I generally enjoyed my time then, and look back on those locomotives with nostalgia. I can hardly believe that they've all gone, they were so synonymous with the modern railway at its best. I occasionally witnessed bits of locomotive performance that would have been unbelievable a few years earlier. I recall coming over Beattock Summit at 60 mph with a double-headed Freightliner train of over a thousand tons behind us, from a dead stand at The Greskine (half way up the hill). The two locomotives (I think they were both 85s) just continued to accelerate the train against the gradient right up to the summit. If the gradient had continued a few miles more, I think they'd have got it up to 75. (In comparison, in a famous trial run in the 1930s, with a trailing load under 300 tons, 6201 Princess Elizabeth was doing 59 at the summit -- with a run at the hill! I've similarly watched the speed fall all the way climbing Beattock with a class 47 diesel and a fairly light load.
One feature of the AC locomotives was that all of them from the 81s to the 87s had virtually identical driving controls and instruments. This was quite unlike the Modernisation Plan diesels, where every builder had their own ideas how to do things. There were 4 ammeters -- one for each traction motor, a notch indicator, and a line light, which was lit all the time that the pantograph was in contact with the live overhead line. The main Controller handle was quite unlike anything on a diesel, where you just opened it wider to go faster. If I remember rightly it had the following positions, in order as you opened it: Off, Run Down, Notch Down, Hold, Notch Up, and Run Up. For initial acceleration the driver would Notch Up one notch at a time. When he had got up a little speed, he would move the controller to Run Up to accelerate more rapidly. When he had reached the desired speed, he would move the controller to Hold. Myself I'd say there's a bit more to driving an electric than a diesel.
When the southern part of the West Coast Main Line was electrified, it was thought that with over 3,000 horse power available, one locomotive would be enough to haul any train. As a result the original AC electrics were not equipped for multiple working. However, when the electrification was extended over Shap and Beattock, double heading was found to be necessary to provide the adhesion to restart a heavy train on a steep rising gradient. With no multiple working possible, that meant doing it the old fashioned way, with a driver on each locomotive. One of our regular workings was 4S52, an overnight Freightliner train of over 1,000 tons trailing load from Willesden to Gushetfaulds. North of Preston, this was always worked by two locomotives, with a driver on each. (That was the train I mentioned earlier that accelerated up Beattock from The Greskine to the Summit.) On that train I witnessed some remarkably good driving. As guard, I was supposed to sit in the back cab, but more often than not I sat in the front cab with the driver of the second locomotive. Now I found the route from Glasgow to Carlisle hard to learn, as, with all the stations and signal boxes closed, it lacked the easy to spot landmarks that you see on a traditional railway. Now the northbound climb up Beattock starts at Wamphray with the line climbing at about 1 in 200 to Beattock (where there are loops and sidings, and there used to be a station). From Beattock the gradient steepens to 1 in 75, which then continues for 10 miles right to Beattock Summit. On the 1 in 200 stretch between Wamphray and Beattock there was (possibly still is) a neutral section in the overhead line at the Murthat. Drivers were supposed not to take power when passing through a neutral section, so less confident drivers wouldn't start to assist until the train passed Beattock, which had lots of lights and was easy to recognise in the dark. However many of the Polmadie drivers (no doubt Motherwell and Carlisle drivers too), who had fired over the road in steam days, and knew the line well, would start to assist from the start of the climb at Wamphray. Now I honestly hadn't a clue where we were. I might have recognised the old station house at Wamphray, but beyond there it was pitch dark, our view ahead was blocked by the leading locomotive, and what little night vision I had was being destroyed by arcing from its pantograph. But somewhere between Wamphray and Beattock the driver would move the controller to the "Run Down" position. Then I would watch the four ammeters move down together. When they reached the bottom, the driver would put the controller to the "Off" position, and immediately the Line Light would go out and come on again. We were at the Murthat neutral section. The driver knew exactly where the train was, even though it was totally dark and I could see nothing. I once asked a driver how he did this, and he said there was a bridge over a little stream, and he used this as a marker for stopping taking power for the neutral section. I looked but I never saw the stream. Maybe it was easier to see from the driver's side of the cab. I think though it was just the sort of intimate route knowledge that you got from spending years firing steam locomotives over the road.
Sadly not all the drivers were as good. I remember one who somehow missed Beattock Summit (which was easy to recognise as there were loops on both sides of the line) and continued taking power on the falling gradient towards Elvanfoot. The speedometer rose rapidly to 100 mph, and then to 120! Freightliner wagons were supposed to be limited to 75 mph. I opened the cabside window, and saw with relief that the train was still following us! I don't think we were really doing 120 mph. The speedometer seemed to "jump" when it got past 100. Maybe that was intentional to make us worried, but the speed was certainly well above 100 and far faster than we should have been going. I'm surprised the driver of the leading engine didn't apply the brakes.
Sorry this comment has been so long, but seeing this video has brought back a lot of memories of the days when these locomotives were an essential part of my life. I was in my twenties then. I had my 70th birthday last week.
Thanks for this insight into the AC locos , Exactly as I was told and experienced when I had a ride with my retired Brother a Londoght man
That is an interesting account of what it must have been like for a railwayman in the northern section of the WCML - thanks a lot for your memories and your efforts in writing all of this !
The reason for the odd power controller was that unlike diesels which have between 5 and 8 power notches, or are notchless, the AC electrics had up to 39 notches, each corresponding to a tap on the transformer. As you say, the controller allowed drivers to either notch up or down one at a time, or to continuously run up or down. Similar vintage electric locos on the continent also used similar systems, although the Germans were quick to adopt electronic control to the point where the driver could select a speed and an acceleration rate and the computer would automatically notch up and down (very like the controls on a 90).
High Speed Electric Freight at 100 if not the indicated 120! Nice one!
Amazing story. I would copy and paste it to a Facebook Group that deals with this topic as more people will see it!
The legacy of AEI 3 still lives in Poland, where a modified version, known as AEI E was used as EU06 and made under a license as PaFaWag 4E series EU07. Then we built several more locomotives on it: EP08 - a 140kph express locomotive, ET22 - a six-axle freight locomotive, ET41 - articulated, eight-axle freight locomotive, EU07 ≤300 - ET41 cut in half. All of these except the EU06 are still a common sight, saw one of the later "sevens" on my way to model making class today.
Meanwhile in USA, Amtrak replaced their Swedish designed EMD AEM-7 from 1979-80 few years ago with Siemens locomotives
@elblog ferroviario can you please stop self-promoting?
@@randomclass4653 ..............who?
@@peterforden5917 that dude deleted his post
Fond memories of watching these leaving Glasgow Central in the 70s going to exotic places such as London! I used to love watching them run-around on the platform. I can still hear their unique sound.
I would love to see something similar on the DC loco's which ran on the Woodhead Line. I know several class 77's came to my country as the 1500 series for the Nederlandse Spoorwegen.
Class 76. 😉
@@pulaski1 No, I'm very sure Em2/class 77's were bought by the NS in the late sixties. However the LNER prototype Em1 later class 76 was indeed on loan to the Netherlands from 1947 till 1952 untill the woodhead line opened. NS found the class 76 to ride rough on higher speeds in passenger service, but had good experiences with Tommy (the loco was so named by the Dutch trainworkers) in freight service. NS was interrested in also buying the class 76's but this fell trough due to BR politics.
@@SaMartok Thank you, I've learned something today - I have never previously heard of a Class 77, never knew it even existed, despite being familiar with the Class 76, which I "knew" was sold to the Netherlands.
@@pulaski1 All the class 77's were sold to the Netherlands. None of the 76's were.
@@pulaski1 The EM2/Class 77s were ostensibly express passenger loco's and looked very much like a stretched EM1 with a C0-C0 wheel arrangement. In spite of being bigger and concommitantly more powerful their performance was not much better than the EM1 and passengers were never that important on the Woodhead line anyway but I understand they did sterling work in the Netherlands.
It still makes my blood boil that Tommy, with her history as the first British main line electric locomotive in operation and work in the Netherlands as mentioned above where she became something of a celebrity loco', was deemed insufficiently important to go into the National Collection. There is an EM1 at York but Tommy just went to scrap in the '70s.
Had a tour of Glasgow Central with my Boys Brigade group in the early nineties. The station staff who showed us around were very keen on the electrification and excited by the Class 90s. It was like they were introducing us to their heroes.
The Class 86. One of the few things BR got VERY right.
I think BR got a Heck of a lot right considering what was inherited and the very small amount of money they had,for the transition from Victorian working to modern, plus the onslaught from Beeching and Thatcher .
There are so many examples of BR getting things right. It was the government meddling that messed things up.
@@MrPsychomonkey The class 45s on the midland and also the class 101 and later sprinter classes were examples of BR getting things right.
The 86s were good machines alright; Freightliner has only recently withdrawn theirs! The only big design mistake was to axle-mount instead of frame-mount the traction motors. BR soon had to modify them at great cost, notably renewing wheels with 'soft centres' and adding flexicoil suspension to support the bogies, to minimise punishing forces exerted on the track and to end white-knuckle riding for drivers. These measures never cured the problems completely...but what a valuable lesson it turned out to be for the class 87 and then 90 designs!
@@MrPsychomonkey Not really. The Modernization program was badly mismanaged. Beeching's plan was badly mismanaged and he got the blame for all of the cuts made, not just the lines that needed to be cut. Modernizing the freight system was badly mismanaged and the list goes on and on. The Big Four did a much better job before the war and would have continued to do so if the government hadn't badly mismanaged them during the war.
It wasn't interference from the government. What so many don't understand is BR WAS part of the government. When the railways were part of the government the incentive to improve was not there. BR was hugely inefficient and nothing but a money pit.
Really enjoy your style of documentary. I listen to these all the time. I’ve never been to the UK, but the advancement of British railways through the years, especially through their traction is very interesting.
You did not get to see the XTP. I was on the Euston to Glasgow Line in the Signal and Telecommunications British Rail. Involved with setting up test equipment for high speed tilt trains. Some of the speeds on a straight piece of line. The engine swaying side to side almost a smiling face rock : ) There were trains engines developed that were never seen just too quick for the lines.
Standing on the platform at Rugby or Crewe as the express passenger trains flew past was very impressive
From the penal colony of Aussieland, thanks for a great tube!! I worked on the 46 class Metro-Vickers engines, missing out on their final runs in the 1990's!!
Many years ago, I worked at AEI Rugby and we supplied some of the switches and indicator lamps for British Rail. When an order was ready for dispatch, a BR inspection person would visit. The items would all be lined up on a bench, the BR person could randomly choose an item to inspect.
On a separate issue, we would often send stuff by Red Star ⭐ and I would often make the short trip to Rugby station to send Urgent items for Steel works etc.
A great video, I went to Barrow Hill a few weeks ago and saw the preserved locomotives, so it's great to have some information about them
The "electric blue" with maroon coaches was a good look.
Great work as always, hours of quality research coming together as an informative, easy to digest masterpiece
Afair, there was a photo in a 1971 edition of the Railway Magazine of the remains of E3019. This had caught fire so badly that the only things surviving above the mainframe were the cab ends. It turned out that while at high speed and current draw, the driver had managed to put it in reverse! Must have been spectacular.
I never saw E3019, some one did save the E and 3 and 0 and 1 and 9 however from one side...
I was told that it was a shirtsleeves cuff caught in the drive selector put it into reverse at 100mph
@@chollocks
Ha ha!
Another gem to wake up to! Thanks Ruairidh
Great video! Brings back memories of travelling to Glasgow in the early 70's and being fascinated by the loco change as a 6 year old, I think it was at Crewe, as it wasn't electric all the way then. It was what later "sparked" my interest in electrical engineering and I served my apprenticeship on the railways.
86s and 87s live a second life in Bulgaria on freight duty and are even being overhauled. The only major modifications to their look is the addition of a snowplough/cowcatcher and rear-view mirrors.
I saw a couple of 87s in the sidings at Burgas when on holiday in 2016. Seems they were used on heavy haul freights inland.
Excellent production! Thank you. You were very kind to the 84s. As a fledgling enthusiast growing up in Birmingham I managed to see examples of each first-gen electric loco in revenue-earning service except the 84; the only example of that class I ever saw was during a visit/tour of Crewe Works in 1982 and had already been withdrawn - it was topping a line of withdrawn 83s awaiting scrapping. I know one 84 was retained, repainted in Derby Ice Cream Van colours and used as a load bank at (I think) Willesden maintenance depot - I guess that it’s the one now at Barrow Hill. “The New Age of Silent Traction” except when the blowers were required to cool the traction equipment - which was all day every day 😁 These days I miss them; back then I reviled them for being where a diesel loco should have been. Nostalgia is an ever-evolving state of mind.
It's actually 84001 that got preserved, while 84009 got turned into the mobile load bank. I think one cab end of it survives though I'm not sure where it is.
First time this subject has been so clearly explained, thank you!
@elblog ferroviario Noted - thank you for the reply!
wow.. you pack a lot of good info into just 14 minutes... helped cleared up my rusty memories of the 81/2/3/4 being introduced and how the later versions that I rode upon so many years ago evolved. Never realised the ECML electrification delay was due to KGX roof remodelling costs. I remember the wires being put into Grantham station and the excitement of the first 225(91) arriving.
Class 83 was a precursor of Polish made classes EU-06, EU-07, EP-07 locomotives (upgraded, and adjusted to metric standards), which are still in use as a cheap and reliable, also produced in great numbers.
And Amtrak of America stopped using the Swedish designed EMD AEM-7s few years ago
I had a cab ride in a 84 in the late 80's it was at Stratford and used for ECS movements. It was restricted to 40mph but was still like a pogo stick.
It wasn't an 84 in the late 1980s. I'm not sure any AL1/AL5 was used into Liverpool Street either.
@@chris8405 I think it was confined to ECS movements and shunting only. The trip I had was from Thornton fields to Stratford station. It was going on the loco.
If I remember right we were short of 08's mikes. One had let the oil header drain out. The other running over speed from Ripple Lane to Stratford had bust Tie bars.
From what I remember Stratford had it for a month. I only saw it once.
The 81s-85s are among the most evocative-sounding electric locos ever built; they weren't called 'Roarers' for nothing! Interesting to note that the AL4s/84s had notably poor riding qualities while the Class 21 Type 2 diesels (also constructed by North British; 20 were later rebuilt as Class 29s) were noted for their superb ride quality in spite of all the other problems they themselves faced. Yes I know, different bogie designs and all that, but just something I thought was interesting.
Cheers for this one, Ruairidh. :)
Great video! Stayed up just long enough to see this video on my favorite British electrics! Cheers from Western Washington!
AL3 got a DC twin, which I think had more successful career. PKP class EU06 was made by Vulcan using some of the AL3 ideas. Series was 5 units longer and lasted in service until ~2012. Now some are in use as heritage trains. Polish companies Pafawag and HCP made a lot of designs based on AL3/EU06, PKP class EU07 (which is in fact two design similiar mostly in apperance, PKP class ET22, which is six axle EU07 (exported to eg. Morocco), PKP class EP08 which is experimental a bit faster passenger locomotive and PKP class ET41 which is two section 8 axle EU07. So AL3 is still alive in DC ;)
I really enjoy a lot of your documentaries. I'd be interested in seeing one on the history of various second generation electrics, particularly ones not often heard about, like the Class 71s.
I remember these new locos thundering up and down the recently opened West coast electrified line north of Preston in the Spring of 1974. We are still awaiting the electrification of the of the Wales and West and Midland Lines nearly 50 years later. Bring back the Intercity brand , as the privatised TOCs collapse and hand back the keys
Fifty years ago many astute commentators were saying that Britain urgently needs an integrated transport plan. Environmental benefits were part of the strong case for one.
Secretaries of State and their Sir Humphrys in Whitehall left it lying in 'too difficult' baskets. For much of that period the Transport Ministry was within the Dept of the Environment at the time. You couldn't make it up!
I also recall that the development of the DVT was prototyped by using a running class 43 with a class 87. These videos are superb. Worthy of showing at the NRM.
These early electric speeds had an effect on the cast iron brake blocks of the BR Mk1 carriages. The fine dust and sometimes the entire block, flying off, would damage cars parked at stations on the LNW, such as King's Langley and Berkhamsted. I remember seeing from Watford Jct. the paraffin tail lamps desperately trying to retain their wild flames in the vacuum and winds behind the brake coach.
hi there, great video, i remember seeing a lot a lot of the class 85s parked up at stonebridge park sidings around 1987 and i think they were used to pick up the night sleeper from euston to the carriage sidings at stonebridge for cleaning.,the class 86s looked great in the Anglia Railways colours,many memories of watching of them growling away at liverpool st station. lets hope some of the freightliner 86s which are parked up get saved even for static display
Once Euston got rid of steam and electrified I lost interest in visiting there. However one day I found myself there and how quiet it was, especially compared to Paddington’s seemingly constant running of diesel locos (and consequent fumes) and the noise resulting in me taking a train to Neath when I didn’t need to as I could barely hear myself on a public phone and misheard the person in Neath!
‘I learn so much from mistakes that I should make some more of them’
At about 1:50 in there's a view of a filthy double chimney streamlined Coronation/Duchess with an "ordinary" (i.e. no streamlined fairings) Duchess tender which appears to have a BR number. I seem to remember reading that one streamlined engine did survive into BR ownership, possibly still in wartime black livery (it's in black and white and so filthy that the livery is pretty much impossible to discern). The engine number in the clip looked like 46243 (City of Lancaster) and a check of the 1948 Ian Allan Combined Volume reprint does indeed show that the only streamlined engine was 46243. That clip must be rare footage indeed. I wonder if any other cine footage of this rarity exists.
I discovered the Class 87 through train simulator, and after searching for tutorials on how to get it moving, it has become my favourite British locomotive. As I’m not from the UK I’ve never gotten to see one in real life, but I wish I could go back in time to see them in service.
There's a few in Bulgaria and Hungary I do believe
The class 87 was a fantastic Loco compared to some of the earlier types. The class 85 had one of the worst riding experiences that you could have, uncomfortable would be an understatement.
Brilliant. Just love the Health and Saftey, or lack of it. Working up on the Catenary while trains hurtle along under you. That'd be a weekend closure nowadays.
Nigel you should watch the whole video that the clip is taken from, you see men working on icy roofs in blizzard conditions and all they have is a cigarette and cup of tea for comfort.
I remember travelling to and fro many times to Huddersfield via the WCML from Wolverhampton and Birmingham in the early and mid 70s. I was always impressed by the reliability and speed of the then class 86s with their unforgettable sound of the traction motor cooling fans.
0:56 I love the underway refueling where they suck up water from troughs on the run! I bet the pax in the first couple of coaches regret having windows open. I wonder if the crew warn them?
Thanks R. It's nice to see it all again. Happy days 😊
I always liked the class 85s . I remember seeing them roar out of Carlisle on freight trains back in the 80s.
the 86's were great to drive. never failed on me and in multi could pull anything!
I used them quite a bit towards the end of their time on the GEML, and the only failures I saw directly related to the locos were pantographs and cooling fans. At least with the latter they could run at reduced power. The main issues were with the TDM or the DBSOs. Funnily enough when the 90s took over I suffered 3 delays early on. One was a cooling fan, which made it but was late. One was due to one loosing it's pantograph and pulling the wires down. One was the TDM.
Surely the first generation electric locos were the 1500V DC EM1 and EM2 classes of locomotives which ran on the erstwhile Manchester Sheffield Woodhead Route. The countries first main line electrified route! Not to mention the 1500V DC locomotives that ran in the North East in the 1920s.
First generation 25KV.
Great video and very informative, used to love seeing these with my late father in the 80's at Crewe and Birmingham. Thanks for posting
Excellent presentation and thoroughly enjoyable. Great too to see two of my favorites : the Brush Type 2, Class 30/31 and the Metro-Cammell Class 251/261 Blue Pullman Class set.
7:05 the magical outside of Stafford Station. And in 2021 all that’s changed is they’ve painted some of the metal work red.
Class 73s and 86s were beautiful, classic, stylish & superb and I wish to God those type of trains were in service now!
73s now haul sleepers in the Scottish highlands, and 86259 and 86101 haul charter trains.
@@chris8405The 73s in use in Scotland have had the original 600hp diesel engine replaced by one several times as powerful, so now they have about as much power on diesel as they originally had on 750 volts from the third rail.
When you think of BRs best efforts, most people think HST, IC225, Deltic, or even class 37, 47 etc. Rarely do the class 86s get a look in, but they should!
How many other locos survived 55 years in mainline service? I really miss the 87s too, and of course the 90s are now mostly on freight which is a shame, but I have a feeling they'll be around for a while longer. The old AC sparkies have bags of character especially 81-87 with their distinctive blower sounds.
The 85s were true survivors they worked speedlink trains right up until withdrawn . Some were kept on as coach stock shunters at various yards. I remember doing over night spotting at Carlisle back in the day and seeing 85s come through at two in the morning on freight trains. They were all still in the old corporate br blue livery. I always loved that roaring howling sound they made.
Electro-diesel engines were used in the 1970s, but by the eighties they were breaking down. My family and I got stuck miles from Ramsgate, in the middle of nowhere, for over two hours in 1988, before being rescued by a fully diesel replacement.
Sounds like you were unlucky! Class 73, at least I thought, were reliable and with their English Electric 4 cylinder 600 HP Diesel engine almost breakdown proof (unless there was an electrical fault I guess). Although the Class 73 `on the juice' had 1,600 HP (one hour rating) as compared to the 600 HP of the standby Diesel the tractive effort up to about 25 mph was roughly 80% of that on pure electric. Have a look at the Wikipedia page if interested.
N.B. Class 73/9 is equally powerful on Diesel as electric having been recently re-engineered.
Daytime scheduled passenger trains to Margate in 1988 were all electric multiple units. So unless you were on a special day excursion from somewhere north or west of London I doubt you were being hauled by a class 73.
@@chris8405 I was on a Merry Maker excursion train. In fact one another excursion train, I had to sit in a carriage with draughty windows, that was clearly pre World War Two. I know of someone who once told a magazine, that they went on a British Rail Mystery Tour, only to end up in their own home town. 😁
Good work RMV - I hadn't been aware there was so much Soviet-style testing-to-destruction in our railway history. Goes to show that extensive (and pricey) field trials really do deliver results!
Very enjoyable. Worth mentioning that the 81s easily outlived classes 82-84 on passenger, my last recorded run being in 1987. The Class 85 lasted into the 90s. A farewell railtour took place on the 30th June 1991 taking 85101 to London Liverpool Street, Shoeburyness and Walton on the Naze!
Really interesting and well put together. I worked for GEC Traction in the 70's and 80's at Trafford Park. I am sure there was a retired 84 parked there for the traction engineers to gain familiarity.
I was always enthralled as a 15 year old whenever I'd catch a train at Euston to Northampton in the mid 70's seeing all these class 86's docked on the platforms. They always looked a powerhouse of speed. I'd watch them on occasion at a crossing in Northampton when the trains were diverted onto the local line when works were being carried out on the main line. Sadly it didn't happen too often! A very interesting documentary I have to say.
👍Thanks for posting this summary of the electric traction of BR’s Modernisation Plan. However, the conclusion at 13.23 that the modernisation plan was delivered “slightly later than originally proposed” is something of an understatement in 2021!
One thing you did miss was that despite all that was learned from the 1st generation designs, the 86s still had a major issue to start with. Like the 83s and 84s they were very rough riders, and since they had the motors hung directly on the axles, they hammered the tracks at high speed. BR modified one by fitting large flexicoil springs for secondary suspension, earning it the nickname "zebedee" after the character from "The Magic Roundabout". This proved largely successful in dealing with the ride and further members of the class were modified, becoming Class 82/2s for passenger use, with the unmodified versions being restricted to 75mph freight workings. All members of the class also had resilient wheels fitted, which feature a rubber layer between the "tyre" and the wheel to help reduce the track force. Later the rest of the fleet gained the new springs, becoming 86/4 (high speed freight) and 86/6 (heavy freight). The same suspension design was fitted to the 87s and 90s (which use the same bogies).
Really enjoyed this documentary. Thanks for posting!
Nothing like a mercury arc rectifier humming away with its glowing plasma bathing the workers in uv
Can’t imagine anything like that level of modernization, if the railways had remained in private hands.
These are the sorts of projects that put the great into GB.
Excellent informative video. I loved traveling on these locos.
An excellent story very rapidly yet succinctly delivered.
Very good history lesson, and I see that the North British built electric locomotive has passed the first speed record and is now at the museum.
Love your work as allways, do 73 sometime, its an interresting one
I love the class 90, 91, 92, 93, 97, 99 great trains
I was in all the stations you mentioned, beautiful places. Thanks.
Fantastic mate thankyou! I grew up in Warrington and saw all these locos at bank Quay trainspotting in the 70's and 80s but wish I'd seen them in the beautiful electric blue and white livery before horrid yellow warning panels ruined engine liveries. Best wishes and take care
The early electrics will forever be associated with Euston. Soulless trains for a soulless station.
Thanks for covering these, I hope one day you cover the 'Polish Class 83s' and of course the one-off Class 89 'Avocet' since I've heard that is being restored to running order.
The Corporate Livery of blue/grey coaches was introduced with the XP64 train set. The decision to built that set was taken in 1962, some 4 years after the decision to proceed with the Mark 2 coach design, the first of which were delivered in either maroon or SR green; the prototype Mk2 came into service in late 1962. The mock-ups of the XP64 were on public display in the new Corporate Livery in 1963, which started to appear on all other long distance coaching and multiple unit stock in 1965. The Inter-City (later InterCity) brand is never based on the success of the WCML electrification, that is an urban myth. The WR was running a train named The Inter-City between Paddington and Wolverhampton in the mid-1960s.
These were worthy successors to the Duchesses and Scots. I liked them from the outset, despite being a diehard steam enthusiast. The same claim can’t be made for the Class 40 ‘Long Pongs’ and the dreadful Metrovick Co-Bo.s
Stanier had a scheme for a steam turbine condenser for the Euston-Glasgow route, but abandoned it before any metal was cut.
Thanks for sharing the evolution of the railway development from steam locomotive, diesel locomotive until electric locomotive developed until it provide high speed train by having different car electric supplying inside the train, making more power supplying on fast acceleration.
I love how every sentence is structured with an upward inflection half way through, and then tailed back to a conclusion at the end of every sentence ad finitum....almost robotic
This script is excellent. Lots of good information.
A 6hr 30min run from London to Glasgow!
I'm Canadian so I find it mind-boggling the the length of the country could be covered in that time. Not bragging on Cda. here in the least. I just find it incredible. I had always envisioned the island and so much larger and I was actually touring England and Scotland camping with my parents in the late '50s.
Blessings on the land for birthing the Industrial Revolution and the fantastic gifts and progress given to the world.
The trains on the west coast mainline now reach 125 mph in certain sections. This summer, vacationing in Europe we traveled from Preston to Euston with stops in Wigan and Warrington and it only took my train 2 hrs and 11 minutes.
Meanwhile back in Canada, they have been talking about electrification of the line between Windsor and Quebec City for years. The VIA trains trundle along at 85 mph, but the competition is limited because airfares in Canada are a crime and the Highway 401 in Ontario is the definition of gridlock.
@@oslinthompson8182 I think your "vacation" was in the British Isles. Very few here would describe going to Britain as going to Europe.....bit like saying im going on holiday to Toronto in the USA.
Even the hardened British anti brexit people wouldn't describe it as such. Bizzare.
@@tonyjones9442 I am not quite sure why you felt the need for the "bizarre" statement. I think your reply to my comment totally missed the point of the discussion (i.e., the speed of trains), and instead you have focussed on the semantics of whether Britain is part of Europe.
I actually vacationed in the UK, Ireland, Spain, and France (hence my vacation in Europe). Whilst Great Britain is not part of continental Europe: England, Wales, and Scotland are European countries.
Your analogy regarding going on holiday to Toronto in the USA is totally wrong because Toronto is not in the USA; however, a more correct analogy would be to say going on holiday to Toronto in North America, which granted is not something I would expect to hear someone say.
@@oslinthompson8182 yes, im fully aware Toronto is not in the USA, as I know both countries better than Europe. I've walked down Dundas street a fair few times and shopped at the Eaton centre. Although I do prefer Vancouver. Although I don't recommend Nova Scotia.
I'm fully aware Britain is geographical in Europe just like Canada is in North America. Regardless of brexit or EU very few British people would describe going to Britain as going to Europe. To be fair you didn't mention Spain or any other country. The culture is different here too. I could properly settle in North America in weeks, Paris or Berlin would be Alien.
Moscow is also in Europe but very few people would describe it as Europe. It just sounded bizzare but now you said the other countries to it makes sense.
My analogy isn't wrong, as plenty of North American say they are visiting England when in fact they are visiting the other three so to me describing the UK as Europe sounded like that, or a Brit confusing Canada with America. If I was going to Canada I wouldn't say im going to America as that would man the USA. That's my anology.
In terms of train speeds, Europe has the advantage it has a greater land mass so high speed makes sense. High speed internally in the uk isn't that good of an idea as there's a major City every 15 miles or so.
Here in (North wales) most of the trains are slow or in mountainous regions narrow gauge.
Interesting Video, thanks! Surprised to read Mercury Arc Rectifiers were used, and not at ALL surprised they gave issues. Had quite a bit of experience with MAC in static location use, where they were OK before solid state rectifiers thrashed them for ability and longevity. Really cannot see them responding at all well though to being jarred around on a railed vehicle!
Well done for all the research it takes to do a video like this. A real education.
An excellent video and I certainly agree the West Coast electrification was the greatest success of the Modernisation plan . Actually the west coast has always been at the forefront of developments, to this day.
As I am 68 now I so remember those days when the first electric trains arrived in Euston as I used to live in Wembley.
I now live in Dawlish. O lovely no wires he he.
I'm a tram and I approve this video! Great footage!
Fantastic documentary films / videos.
Class 90/91/DVT need a video for themselves. Good work 👍
Excellent presentation...thank you...
I had been in a train that has been pushed by GA Push-Pull stock which iirc Class 90014 was pushing from Witham to Norwich. Fantastic ride even for a modern locomotive that has its origins from the 50s. Sounds from them had been are still pleasant to my ears compared to modern rolling stock of today.
Best electric locos of their time!
Reminds me of the game app "Pocket Trains" which includes so many of these electric locomotives. Fond memories.
@6:13- that brown van looks like a match wagon!!
As a spotter, I saw all the 25 Kv locos apart from 83007, which crashed somewhere.
Excellent video.
of course, it would never have occurred to anyone to draw on the experience of train companies on the continent regarding electric locos, etc.
That's an unkind over-simplification. On the one hand there has been a "British is best" undercurrent in the way some people look at things - although not everyone subscribes to it of course. On the other hand, don't forget the Labour Government of 1964-70 encouraged a policy of buying British to help the economy, which was not particularly strong then. I remember people wearing "I'm backing Britain" badges, for example. That was before we joined the EU Single Market etc., which is itself a protection racket desinged to protect industries within the EU.
Alejandra y Alan Bowman--We did look very closely at what the French were doing with 50hz AC HV and lightweight bo-bo's, and to some degree this influence was factored in to our AL's.
Why? At the time the AL1 was being tested the continent (except France) had zero experience of AC electrification. The UK had previous AC experience from the Morecambe and Heysham trials in the early 1950s. Even in 2022 the continent still has a big legacy of mixed AC/DC of varying voltages, meaning many trains are still not as efficient or able to run as fast as they could be able to. The UK largely avoided this as the DC third rail was mainly confined to the south of England.
I thoroughly enjoyed the video, iy was very well explained and a good education
Liked before viewing.
As always, a superb video! 👏👍🙂
What i personally find interesting about British AC traction in general is the usage of automatic main circuit breakers and the usage of a sole pantograph on locomotives instead of two.
This feels like a double edged sword:
1. Automatic MCBs are a great idea but the problem arises when some of these first gen locos are brought over to continental Europe where manual MCBs controlled from the cab are the norm, what happens then? Do they have to lower the pantograph at every neutral section? Also with manual MCBs you have more control over the situation...
2. The lack of a second pantograph causes a problem if the only pantograph is damaged. Thats what its there for. Plus in some countries regulations state that the front pantograph must be lifted in the case of certain trains (at least in Germany ive seen this in regard to tanker trains and freight trains hauling brand new cars).
An interesting and well-produced video. Thank you for the upload.
Great video ... my electric following is mostly dedicated to the last of the electrics featured in this video, the Class 90.
Is it just me, or do the early WCML electrics have a 'spade' look to the cab ends?
Thank you for an interesting video.
Please, can anyone tell me whether all these classes were rectifier locos? And if/when semiconductor rectifiers were introduced.
In 1963 when I was working in Oerlikon**, they had produced a couple of years earlier a class of rectifier locos intended to operate on the Trans-European Express (TEE). These locos were designed to operate on a number of electrical supply systems with different voltages and frequencies and (I think) DC. They were proud of their "Undulating voltage motors" which while being DC motors had to incorporate some features of AC motors due to the high AC content of the "undulating" rectified AC.
But surely, the British motors must have been similar?
I think these TEE locos had a number of pantographs, each for a different supply system so as to avoid switchgear.
Oerlikon had also produced a batch of locos (class 14000) with an all-machine frequency changing drive, incorporating regeneration onto a 50HZ supply. Efficiency was claimed at 80% at speeds over 20KPH. These were exclusively designed for SNCF goods traffic on the highly undulating Lille-Thionville line.
Rheostat braking is of course a dead loss of energy, but saves the maintenance associated with friction brake ware including the effects of brake dust on the running gear.
** Oerlikon is a northerly suburb of Zürich, and better known for guns manufactured by another company also located there. The electrical engineering factory was Maschinenfabrikoerlikon (nice!) which was subsequently taken over by Braun Boveri, which company ceased a few years later.
Class 81-84 all had mercury arc rectifiers, 85s had germanium diodes except for the final 10 built, which had silicon diodes, as did the 86s and 87s.
From around 1972-74, all the earlier classes were refurbished with the silicon diodes to improve reliability and reduce maintenence.
AL5/85 was also the first class to feature rheostatic braking, which was fitted on all subsequenct classes, but as an automatic/combined system rather than an independent air brake/rheostatic brake setup on the 85s which many drivers disliked.
@@soundseeker63 Sir, thank you for this information. I had no idea that Ge diodes had been used. I believe their maximum temperature, at the germanium itself, is 90° cf 200° for Si. Clearly much cooling was called for, especially given the summer maximum trackside temperatures. Having rheostatic braking in the same structures can't have helped!
I never had to design with them, but I remember seeing datasheets for Westinghouse "Hockey puck" Si rectifiers. These were (from fading memory!) about 3" or 4" dia × an inch or so thick, and rated somewhere around 200-300A. That must have been 35-40 years ago now, by which time I was working on SONAR.
I presume that modern AC electric traction must use SCRs especially to achieve regeneration onto the line? I was looking into this in 1963 in my final year at Southampton Univ. We were having to model this at very low power using large thyratrons as SCR's were still on the distant horizon.
Stay well. Clive.
@elblog ferroviario I would like you to stop spamming the comments section.
@@jjmcrosbie The 90s and 91s use Thyristors, but can't do regeneration. 92s have GTO Thyristor inverters supplying AC motors.
@@ChrisCooper312 Thank you Chris. Would that be variable-frequency inversion driving induction motors?
Class 81’s ❤️.Brilliant video.
You can't help but wonder what drove BR to commission a raft of more or less experimental "first generation" locomotives. Electric traction had been in use elsewhere in the world since the turn of the century, evolving ever faster after the first world war (the iconic Swiss "crocodile" started production in 1919). By 1955 two different French locomotives had exceeded 200mph, and for goods transport a range of locomotives would produce twice the power BR was working with. By the mid 60s, when BR was still in the learning stage, the German 103 prototype would routinely run at 120mph and produce up to 8000hp (this was deemed insufficient, and increased to 10000hp in the production version). You would have thought BR could have tapped somebody on the shoulder and asked to have a look.
4:10 - These units were licensed to Poland and they are still in traffic today. It's EU07 4E in here.
I have a lot of love britosh electric locomotives. I love the class 87 the most
Very interesting thanks
I love the 90, especially i that original darker livery, probably my favourite leccy
"...intended but slightly later than originally proposed." Ah yes the British Rail header right there in more ways than one lol.
...and delivered with classic British understatement and searing sarcasm!