After my megachurch collapsed a decade ago we didn't have enough team to put someone on our "Broadcast" desk, so we went to post fader bus mix. I've stuck with that idea ever since - lockdown just confirmed it. Love that Kade landed on the same setup. It works, and I use/recommend it to every church I work with now.
Awesome! I've been watching your channel and the fact that you have worldwide audiences and deal with choirs from different continents and churches really expands your exposure to church variety and music variety as well.
One thing that makes a huge difference in quality is having a "silent stage". I do that by eliminating floor wedges and guitar amps with IEMs. I also have electric drums instead of acoustic drums. If you must use guitar amps, have them off stage but just running your guitar signals from your pedals straight to a DI works great. Lastly, the microphones; limit the number of mics on stage and make sure they're all placed well behind the FOH speakers. This not only reduces the risk of feedback, but also the noise in the recording. You can make up for the "loss of ambience" by adding reverb to your mix and also adding "crowd mics" like he suggested.
Thank you for promoting simplicity! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one out there not adding piles of complicated equipment and software that the volunteers can't really handle. When we simplify, we lower the bar of entry so that even more volunteers can serve, learn, and grow. I too use a post-fader bus mix for livestreaming, with the addition of optionally allowing the livestream operator to adjust the mix on that bus using an iPad or app on the livestream computer. I also simplify the video side of the livestream by using just two, fixed-position, 4K cameras fed directly into a computer where a simple click or button press selects from multiple, simulated 1080p camera scenes cut from the larger images-without any external switchers.
Great talk! I enjoyed and learned a whole lot. It was practical and accessible. One point; if you're using IEMs, you'll need a console with many auxiliary channels because you need to set aside 2 for the broadcast mix. Last thing; I'd say use the post fader bus method for recurring live streaming and use the DAW method when you really need super high quality like recording an artist "performing live".
For stream mix we use an unstance use Reaper. Our FOH console is a TF5 with Dante. Most sundays our stream mix comes from FOH, goes to Reaper where i have a couple of compressors to maintain level. Other Sundays we will do a dedicated mix. May take so long as we do OK more often than we suck then its good. The chruch sound team is a safe place to make mistakes.
Great talk Kade - I'm a fan of post-fade Livestream too - for all the same reasons you highlighted. Aside from good training, getting a good FOH mix is critical. However, one of the biggest - and often ignored and misunderstood - factors in getting that good live mix, is the acoustics of the room. Poor acoustics can skew things badly, and can unknowingly frustrate the progress and development of new volunteers.
So true! And the best first step to help with bad acoustics is to EQ the room. Then, when budget allows, time for sound panels (and EQ your room again after they are installed).
What church’s need to do is give access to their techs to run virtual sound checks and allow them to tweak everything to a point where you can send that same signal to a stereo aux mix and make sure they’re testing it to leave those settings saved and stored somewhere anyone can go to incase someone touches it and changes it.
Love this Kade, thanks. As a professional sound engineer I always want to hear the mix return from the Device that is Streaming. So, I always dedicate a channel on the mixer to bring that Stream mix INTO the mixer - not assigned anywhere, but with a simple Pre fade "Solo" one can hear what's going out to the world. If using VMIX or some other streaming software, this also allows the person doing sound mixing to hear the delay and confirm proper delay - when given a post stream monitor spilt off the streaming computer!
You didn't number the first few tips: 1) Church community coming together in-person to worship/share/learn/work... together is more important than having a perfect recording. 2) Start with the FOH mix eg. Post-fader mix or a DAW has to start from replicating the FOH mix. Start flat then vary by...[see video above]. 3) Stereo mix. Then the rest of the points you made. Extra comments: I can watch the audio meter in the streaming software showing the input level during practice & the service (dedicated screen between video operator & audio mixer). Doesn't tell me who is making it peak but helps with general levels. The frustration 1 is when the worship team doesn't do enough practice so some get louder with confidence, others were great in practice but seem quieter in the service. Frustration 2 in a small church is I can't isolate my ears from the FOH sound enough when trying to listen to the streaming mix. I wish I had someone in a seperate room watching&listening to the live stream in realtime not ~20sec delay (as it is from OBS to YT to local PC), with remote access to the digital mixer to edit the livestream mix. YMMV.
Great content, I have learnt a lot from Kade and applying what he recommends always works great. As beginners its difficult to understand the routing. Is there a detailed video on the routing for the X32 in church and live stream, and how its routing from house to stream in details with visuals please
The live in room is the priority for the sound team. But. If you have someone dedicated to the livestream THAT is the priority for that person. And they have to find the way to make it work with what they have
99.9% of the churches out there use what I call untrained amateurs even though they claim they have training. The truth is they don’t have a clue on what they are doing !!! And the BIGGEST problem is the Leadership of the church knows everything about sound systems and really know nothing. Everyone one is an expert in sound, how about hiring Real Sound engineers and let them teach you ??? It takes at least 4 years of practice of doing sound just to get your feet wet and another 4 years to have a good understanding of what you are doing, sound engineers need to learn many different ways of making sound design to get the proper results.
I get your frustration. The church needs God fearing professional sound engineers that have lots of experience. Short of this, we are better off with "armature" sound engineers that love God than ungodly professional sound engineers. Given time, we'll train our people and we'll get it right.
I agree with you. Sometimes the church leadership dictates what equipment to get and may undermine the growth of the sound team. Connecting with groups and resources that train sound teams for churches (and getting the equipment they need, within reasonable limits) is the solution.
Busterfoxx, my church has been at this over 20 years, they still have it all wrong, it’s sad, the reason our pastor won’t let me handle the sound is because I will make them all look like idiots including the pastor ! Deep down he knows I am right.
I'm going to call BS on this post. I'll take a dedicated servant any day over a full of themselves techs. If it sounds good and there are no major distractions then it's just fine. Must people here in small communities church's and are out there doing it.
@@BlackCoinCrypto tbf he said hire and let them teach us. Not exactly make them control sound every week. And we're at a point where I'm pretty sure there's ton of Christian sound engineer out there.
Can you elaborate more? I'm curious, since when he says it it makes sense to me, but also I'd assume that you can't blindly map changes to FoH to changes in livestream audio.
I concur with the idea that Post-Fader doesn't work for most churches. From experience, I can tell you that even though we have sound checks, we rehearse, and dial both the FOH and Livestream Mixes, there's always that one person that will change a minor thing in the house, or worst-case scenario change the mix because it's "too loud in the room", and ultimately it gets affected on the Livestream Mix. We've had that happen so many times, that we then switched over to a DAW setting, and the problems have mitigated. So you have situations where the Livestream sounds great, but your room doesn't and vice versa.
@@TotalEvo7I was wondering why not have both options? There may be times when church is packed and all hands are on deck, why not use a DAW? Then for the normal service when you don’t have manpower, switch to bus mix. Again, if you’r church can setup both options , leave it on the table.
After my megachurch collapsed a decade ago we didn't have enough team to put someone on our "Broadcast" desk, so we went to post fader bus mix. I've stuck with that idea ever since - lockdown just confirmed it. Love that Kade landed on the same setup. It works, and I use/recommend it to every church I work with now.
Loved my time teaching at the Churchfront Conference! Thanks Jake & team! -Kade
Awesome! I've been watching your channel and the fact that you have worldwide audiences and deal with choirs from different continents and churches really expands your exposure to church variety and music variety as well.
One thing that makes a huge difference in quality is having a "silent stage". I do that by eliminating floor wedges and guitar amps with IEMs. I also have electric drums instead of acoustic drums. If you must use guitar amps, have them off stage but just running your guitar signals from your pedals straight to a DI works great. Lastly, the microphones; limit the number of mics on stage and make sure they're all placed well behind the FOH speakers. This not only reduces the risk of feedback, but also the noise in the recording. You can make up for the "loss of ambience" by adding reverb to your mix and also adding "crowd mics" like he suggested.
Thank you for promoting simplicity! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one out there not adding piles of complicated equipment and software that the volunteers can't really handle. When we simplify, we lower the bar of entry so that even more volunteers can serve, learn, and grow. I too use a post-fader bus mix for livestreaming, with the addition of optionally allowing the livestream operator to adjust the mix on that bus using an iPad or app on the livestream computer. I also simplify the video side of the livestream by using just two, fixed-position, 4K cameras fed directly into a computer where a simple click or button press selects from multiple, simulated 1080p camera scenes cut from the larger images-without any external switchers.
Great talk! I enjoyed and learned a whole lot. It was practical and accessible. One point; if you're using IEMs, you'll need a console with many auxiliary channels because you need to set aside 2 for the broadcast mix. Last thing; I'd say use the post fader bus method for recurring live streaming and use the DAW method when you really need super high quality like recording an artist "performing live".
Great tips!
For stream mix we use an unstance use Reaper. Our FOH console is a TF5 with Dante. Most sundays our stream mix comes from FOH, goes to Reaper where i have a couple of compressors to maintain level.
Other Sundays we will do a dedicated mix. May take so long as we do OK more often than we suck then its good.
The chruch sound team is a safe place to make mistakes.
Great talk Kade - I'm a fan of post-fade Livestream too - for all the same reasons you highlighted. Aside from good training, getting a good FOH mix is critical. However, one of the biggest - and often ignored and misunderstood - factors in getting that good live mix, is the acoustics of the room. Poor acoustics can skew things badly, and can unknowingly frustrate the progress and development of new volunteers.
So true! And the best first step to help with bad acoustics is to EQ the room. Then, when budget allows, time for sound panels (and EQ your room again after they are installed).
What church’s need to do is give access to their techs to run virtual sound checks and allow them to tweak everything to a point where you can send that same signal to a stereo aux mix and make sure they’re testing it to leave those settings saved and stored somewhere anyone can go to incase someone touches it and changes it.
So good. Virtual sound checks make all the diference.
Saving settings, and virtual sound checks have to be among the greatest benefits of using digital mixers.
Good thoughts! Always riding that line between having the best possible outcome and realistic team and training resources.
Yep! There's definitely a balance between the two.
Love this Kade, thanks. As a professional sound engineer I always want to hear the mix return from the Device that is Streaming. So, I always dedicate a channel on the mixer to bring that Stream mix INTO the mixer - not assigned anywhere, but with a simple Pre fade "Solo" one can hear what's going out to the world. If using VMIX or some other streaming software, this also allows the person doing sound mixing to hear the delay and confirm proper delay - when given a post stream monitor spilt off the streaming computer!
Solid! That's a pro tip right there. Thank you.
Very effective session.
You didn't number the first few tips: 1) Church community coming together in-person to worship/share/learn/work... together is more important than having a perfect recording.
2) Start with the FOH mix eg. Post-fader mix or a DAW has to start from replicating the FOH mix. Start flat then vary by...[see video above].
3) Stereo mix.
Then the rest of the points you made.
Extra comments: I can watch the audio meter in the streaming software showing the input level during practice & the service (dedicated screen between video operator & audio mixer). Doesn't tell me who is making it peak but helps with general levels.
The frustration 1 is when the worship team doesn't do enough practice so some get louder with confidence, others were great in practice but seem quieter in the service.
Frustration 2 in a small church is I can't isolate my ears from the FOH sound enough when trying to listen to the streaming mix. I wish I had someone in a seperate room watching&listening to the live stream in realtime not ~20sec delay (as it is from OBS to YT to local PC), with remote access to the digital mixer to edit the livestream mix.
YMMV.
Great content, I have learnt a lot from Kade and applying what he recommends always works great. As beginners its difficult to understand the routing. Is there a detailed video on the routing for the X32 in church and live stream, and how its routing from house to stream in details with visuals please
Yeah check this out. ua-cam.com/video/7YUNmkOg1O0/v-deo.htmlsi=-n9ie2k2WMa_fXfa
The live in room is the priority for the sound team. But. If you have someone dedicated to the livestream THAT is the priority for that person. And they have to find the way to make it work with what they have
Agreed!
How do I route the board to get the mix bus to come out of X-USB?
The computer will pull channels 1-2 form X-USB automatically. Set your live stream bus to CARD 1-2 and you'll be golden.
Why is there always a fade between the cameras? Can‘t watch this…
DONT pan your 10” Tom either lol.
99.9% of the churches out there use what I call untrained amateurs even though they claim they have training. The truth is they don’t have a clue on what they are doing !!! And the BIGGEST problem is the Leadership of the church knows everything about sound systems and really know nothing. Everyone one is an expert in sound, how about hiring Real Sound engineers and let them teach you ??? It takes at least 4 years of practice of doing sound just to get your feet wet and another 4 years to have a good understanding of what you are doing, sound engineers need to learn many different ways of making sound design to get the proper results.
I get your frustration. The church needs God fearing professional sound engineers that have lots of experience. Short of this, we are better off with "armature" sound engineers that love God than ungodly professional sound engineers. Given time, we'll train our people and we'll get it right.
I agree with you. Sometimes the church leadership dictates what equipment to get and may undermine the growth of the sound team.
Connecting with groups and resources that train sound teams for churches (and getting the equipment they need, within reasonable limits) is the solution.
Busterfoxx, my church has been at this over 20 years, they still have it all wrong, it’s sad, the reason our pastor won’t let me handle the sound is because I will make them all look like idiots including the pastor ! Deep down he knows I am right.
I'm going to call BS on this post. I'll take a dedicated servant any day over a full of themselves techs.
If it sounds good and there are no major distractions then it's just fine. Must people here in small communities church's and are out there doing it.
@@BlackCoinCrypto tbf he said hire and let them teach us. Not exactly make them control sound every week. And we're at a point where I'm pretty sure there's ton of Christian sound engineer out there.
Post fader isn’t ideal for most church’s. Ever. Leave it pre fader and take 3 - 6 months training someone.
Can you elaborate more? I'm curious, since when he says it it makes sense to me, but also I'd assume that you can't blindly map changes to FoH to changes in livestream audio.
I concur with the idea that Post-Fader doesn't work for most churches. From experience, I can tell you that even though we have sound checks, we rehearse, and dial both the FOH and Livestream Mixes, there's always that one person that will change a minor thing in the house, or worst-case scenario change the mix because it's "too loud in the room", and ultimately it gets affected on the Livestream Mix. We've had that happen so many times, that we then switched over to a DAW setting, and the problems have mitigated. So you have situations where the Livestream sounds great, but your room doesn't and vice versa.
@@TotalEvo7I was wondering why not have both options? There may be times when church is packed and all hands are on deck, why not use a DAW? Then for the normal service when you don’t have manpower, switch to bus mix. Again, if you’r church can setup both options , leave it on the table.
@@jasonstlouis9871 In our case, it didn't work, and our online mix suffered because of it, so having both options available is not viable by any means