Well done video with clear oration and points. Excited for this series and getting a window into your thought process and culmination of research. I look forward to more deep discussion in person as well! High level thoughts: 1. Weird stories? Yes 2. What's God trying to show or reveal to His people through them? Unclear 3. Seemingly mismatched justice throughout different stories in the OT from our perspective including Abraham? For sure 4. Abraham's history between these stories and Hagar does leave a lot to wonder about the reasoning for God choosing him to be the father of His chosen people....at least when perceiving it from our modern human lens. However, I'm curious about your perspective of the stories being the same. Doesn't seem to be a compelling case to be made that they are? As you mentioned, ~1000 years passed between the believed occurrences and authorship. Whether passed down through stories or divinely inspired it is quite plausible for 3 similar circumstances to have relatively similar details like the words a leader said in response to a similar event, generalized without losing the point. Whether Pharaoh said "Why'd you do this" vs "How could you possibly do this to me" still conveys the same message and it's highly likely anyone telling a story would use the same phrasing for insignificant details that are so similar across time. I know I do it in my own storytelling. The story of Isaac even goes out of its way to be clear it was a different famine and we know that famines were a fairly common occurrence from other stories. The first story is Abraham in Egypt the second in Gerar. Not clear to me whether it's the same Abimelech or a son of his from Abraham to Isaac (III, VI, so on) but really doesn't matter bc it could easily be the same Abimelech without making the story implausible. So, trying to be fair...can I irrefutably say that it isn't the same story mixed around and shared in 3 places? No, I suppose not because I'm not the author and wasn't there when it was written. But to portray them as definitely being the same story seems like even more of a reach of assumption based purely on somewhat similar circumstances and quoted words. If you are coming to a document that was believed to be written in 1500 BC about events occurring in 2500 BC and we are in 2024 AD I feel the burden of proof falls on us to convincingly disprove the claims made by the authorship that was closer to first hand experience. I don't think pointing out quote similarities with a 1000 year gap between event and recollection along somewhat similar circumstances where we can't understand the culture of the time, how common famines were, or risk of murder and wife stealing....creates enough proof or evidence to support your claim or theory of same story with 3 occurrences. Seems like a reach without much convincing proof.... just personal observations and theory. But looking forward to hearing about the flood as the straw that broke the camel's back :) it's good to have a platform for free thought, idea sharing and discussion that causes people to think.
I think you are overlooking theme development in the stories. God is the one that will keep his promise and it will be fulfilled. There are other parallels in Genesis 12 and 41-47, Exodus 12 that further this narrative. Also, you mentioned wanting to use our latest archeology to inform your questions about the Bible. I would suggest using a modern translation that is based on currently available evidence, not from just the 17th Century. I'm interested to here your questions about textual issues with the New Testament.
From your intro, I see someone with a lot of "head knowledge" but no faith. Even Satan knew Scripture and could use it in the best of intentions. Matthew 4:6. Bad enough to have faith without deeds James 2:19, but worse to have deeds and no faith. Hebrews 11
Well done video with clear oration and points. Excited for this series and getting a window into your thought process and culmination of research. I look forward to more deep discussion in person as well!
High level thoughts:
1. Weird stories? Yes
2. What's God trying to show or reveal to His people through them? Unclear
3. Seemingly mismatched justice throughout different stories in the OT from our perspective including Abraham? For sure
4. Abraham's history between these stories and Hagar does leave a lot to wonder about the reasoning for God choosing him to be the father of His chosen people....at least when perceiving it from our modern human lens.
However, I'm curious about your perspective of the stories being the same. Doesn't seem to be a compelling case to be made that they are? As you mentioned, ~1000 years passed between the believed occurrences and authorship. Whether passed down through stories or divinely inspired it is quite plausible for 3 similar circumstances to have relatively similar details like the words a leader said in response to a similar event, generalized without losing the point. Whether Pharaoh said "Why'd you do this" vs "How could you possibly do this to me" still conveys the same message and it's highly likely anyone telling a story would use the same phrasing for insignificant details that are so similar across time. I know I do it in my own storytelling. The story of Isaac even goes out of its way to be clear it was a different famine and we know that famines were a fairly common occurrence from other stories. The first story is Abraham in Egypt the second in Gerar. Not clear to me whether it's the same Abimelech or a son of his from Abraham to Isaac (III, VI, so on) but really doesn't matter bc it could easily be the same Abimelech without making the story implausible.
So, trying to be fair...can I irrefutably say that it isn't the same story mixed around and shared in 3 places? No, I suppose not because I'm not the author and wasn't there when it was written. But to portray them as definitely being the same story seems like even more of a reach of assumption based purely on somewhat similar circumstances and quoted words.
If you are coming to a document that was believed to be written in 1500 BC about events occurring in 2500 BC and we are in 2024 AD I feel the burden of proof falls on us to convincingly disprove the claims made by the authorship that was closer to first hand experience. I don't think pointing out quote similarities with a 1000 year gap between event and recollection along somewhat similar circumstances where we can't understand the culture of the time, how common famines were, or risk of murder and wife stealing....creates enough proof or evidence to support your claim or theory of same story with 3 occurrences. Seems like a reach without much convincing proof.... just personal observations and theory. But looking forward to hearing about the flood as the straw that broke the camel's back :) it's good to have a platform for free thought, idea sharing and discussion that causes people to think.
I appreciate the thoughts here and love this being added to the conversation. Keep it up and we might just get you featured on a future episode :)
@faithinquestion not sure the world wants or needs that but I do enjoy ideating and healthy debate. Until next time :)
We all love a good debate 😎
I think you are overlooking theme development in the stories. God is the one that will keep his promise and it will be fulfilled. There are other parallels in Genesis 12 and 41-47, Exodus 12 that further this narrative. Also, you mentioned wanting to use our latest archeology to inform your questions about the Bible. I would suggest using a modern translation that is based on currently available evidence, not from just the 17th Century. I'm interested to here your questions about textual issues with the New Testament.
Stay Tuned--my first NT video will drop in 2-3 weeks.
From your intro, I see someone with a lot of "head knowledge" but no faith. Even Satan knew Scripture and could use it in the best of intentions. Matthew 4:6. Bad enough to have faith without deeds James 2:19, but worse to have deeds and no faith. Hebrews 11
True, The more I read the more faith I lost.