I miss when heros were good for goods sake. I mean I love complex characters and redemption stories but I'm not for heros who are just insanely prideful
@@iceluvndiva21 Who are you talking about? Who are the heroes like that? The few I can think of the pridefulness is a key feature. Iron man comes to mind: A prideful 2nd generation weapons maker injured by his own bomb. His prideful "I'm always right" nature is what caused the Civil War story arc. For the MCU Iron Man this is also what created the Ultron story arc.
@@Bragemaster Depending on who you ask, it was. Just not for all people obviously. And even then in the case of civil rights, one could argue that the 50's was at least the beginning of the end of discrimination and segregation, since it was around the mid 50's that Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on the bus started the Montgomery bus boycott, which in turn eventually led to the Civil Rights movement being formed.
Its genuinely depressing that there are so many deconstructions now a days. They’re entirely missing the point of why we need heros. “Folks need heros Chief, to give ‘em hope. So smile would ya, while we still got something to smile about” -Sgt Johnson
I'm down for a good deconstruction every now and then, but I'd like to see more of them end with "this is why this person is good" instead of "this person is actually kinda bad and they tricked you since childhood".
@@swishfish8858 "It strikes me that the only reason to take apart a pocket watch, or a car engine, aside from the simple delight of disassembly, is to find out how it works. To understand it, so you can put it back together again better than before, or build a new one that goes beyond what the old one could do. We've been taking apart the superhero for ten years or more; it's time to put it back together and wind it up, time to take it out on the road and floor it, see what it'll do." - Kurt Busiek, Astro City, on the whole point of Deconstruction
In all honesty i didnt get why there was build up until i dug deeper, apparently i only saw one side of the coin cause i thought it was a genuine "you make your country, people and family proud" compliment, on the other side i think people over think it as an unintended form of racism
The green lantern bit. The reason John Stewart's ring makes basic shapes is because of John Stewart. It's his personality, he's no nonsense, efficient, marine. To make a complex shape is a waste of time, it just needs to function. Its also easier for the animators. The OG green lantern always had overly complicated shapes.
This is actually the opposite of comic book John Stewart. As I showed in the comic panel, John often adds unnecessary detail to his constructs in the comics because he's an engineer. It needs to work, but he doesn't imagine it working without proper structure. Also, simple constructs are not limited to John in this show, the other Lanterns aren't very imaginative either.
@@christianjohnson5379 He was a marine before becoming an engineer. He's always been an engineer, but the comics retconned his marine background into existence.
Which is one more reason I liked Kyle better, at least STAS's version of him. Super creative, cool guy. weaponizes artistic ability. but they flat-out admitted "nah, we wanted a black guy" at a time when that didn't even win you that many points yet. they were just _already_ like that. I mean you had Steel, you potentially had Black Lightning, you had uhhh hell you could have thrown Huntress in there a big early. but sure, whatever. ditch the really good character you set up earlier. it's his fault for being white.
The ending of what actually happened for this one was tragic. A kid who was mutilated by a nuclear bomb and had to watch his childhood and heroes die in front of him used powers he never should have had to force himself and everyone else in a permanent state because he couldn't let go. I mean, what he did was awful, and for *40 years*, but I can't help but feel for him.
Good thing that feeling fades when you do remember that he was forcing all the survivors to live a sterile fantasy. And....then Wanda did it in Wandavision, where the show tried to lampshade her awfulness.
The person I always feel bad for is Ray, even in his warped mind, he can't see himself overpowering his heroes. He loved them enough to recreate reality just to have them be around after all. But damn if hearing GL say: "YOU'RE REAL?" is still the funniest shit that brings out of it.
@@JohnMasterCheifI mean, why else would he and the rest want to end the illusion? They’re real people trapped in Ray’s world. Otherwise, it would be a bit of a dick move to end Ray’s illusion if it wasn’t hurting anyone.
What's makes this dark is that they don't exactly state what happened to Ray. Did he pass out or pass away? Besides, having a fantastical world is miles better than the real one being destroyed by nuclear and radiation.
I've heard one theory somewhere that the reason the Justice Guild were able to fight back against Ray Thompson because he subconsciously felt guilty about imprisoning and tormenting all those people and wanted to be punished for it. That or he just recreated the Guild too well and made them real heroes in the end. Anyway this is truly among the best episodes of one of the best super hero series on television. R.I.P. JGA, both your greatest sacrifices will never be forgotten.
I just like to think he admired em to such point where taking their free will or modifying their behaviour was out of question even it would mean the end of the illusion. Thats sad because even if wrong, Ray was acting out of love for the Justice Guild.
Considering how magic and soul shown to exist in DCAU it might be that ray actually manages to imprison their soul hence they are able to act independently unlike the villains.
A line that hit me was Shayera giving John support with a new outlook. She wasn't one to care for fiction or fantasies, but the experience and those words. "They gave their lives for us. Thats real enough for me." Including his stuggle that yea, they weren't real. But they impacted him on a level to made him who he is, that too would be real enough for Shayera
It hits harder knowing what we later learn about Thanagar's highly rational, materialist culture and how that impacts her world view in episodes like The Terror Beyond.
I'm going to disagree. While they were created, she understood they were still real. They could reason and think. They were like robots that became aware.
It's an allegory to us, the readers. The stories and ideals in those comics came from somewhere, Humanity as a whole. Without beliefs, we're aimless. Which is why I loved seeing the Guild take on their "Creator", showing that they believed in principles that don't belong solely to him. In a weird way, you can see how someone could lose themselves as a reader or a creator yet still hold them in high regard obsessively in an unhealthy fashion. But the creations themselves can outlast them.
"We died once to save this Earth, we can do it again." God that line and "They gave their lives for us, that's real enough for me." Live rent free in my head. This is arguably one of my favourite JL episodes. Man id have loved to see Kyle Rayner using his gundam constructs in an animated series, some of my favourite comic constructs are Kyles.
I'd argue that the "plot problems" actually add to it. The golden and silver ages can be infamous for heroes getting trapped in situations that their power sets should be more than adequate for getting out of. So the flash being unable to break free and falling unconscious after the car scene actually makes sense if you look at it from that perspective.
And we can argue that Ray is making the guild heroes not think of more efficient ways to use their powers, since he wants them trapped in never ending cheesy battles.
Small fun fact, but Ray Thompson is based on two people: Roy Thomas, legendary writer for Marvel and DC in the silver and bronze ages, notable for his fanatism for golden age heroes (since he grew up with those heroes), and Rick Jones, sidekick to the Hulk, Captain America and other heroes during the silver age, and who once gained psychic powers that allowed him to bring many heroes back from the golden age, similar to what Ray did .
According to Bruce Timm Ray Thomas is Ray Bradbury and Roy Thomas. Fun fact the Mutant looks the same as a villian from a parelle world (dc chacters like Hyperion) in an old Avengers comics written by Roy Thomas
I don't know if an official source stated this, but I believe he is also very similar to Snapper Carr of the original 1960's run of the Justice League of America, where he was the Justice League's team amscot who rarely did anything important (until he got powers of teleportation in the 80's)
19:57 the kicker is, that brain boy could have easily gone on to help rebuild civilization legitimately, and been a superhero in his own right…. But he chose it just sit by and watch instead.
My theory is that the other survivors help the kid, so that he can cope with the loss of his heroes, meaning he learns to use his power properly and DOES become the new hero of the world. I also think there might be more survivors outside of the city, and that the city was isolated by the illusion.
@@hariman7727 I like to imagine that the Justice Guild turning on him was the result of him being forced to face the fact that the real Justice Guild would never have approved of what he was doing.
@@spongeintheshoe Yep. And while he made the fake Justice Guild, he also made them accurate and with free will, so they could oppose their "creator" for the good of the people of the city.
Well, he was just a kid who watched his whole world and everyone he cared about die, so it's not surprising he cracked. Also, it's heavily implied he was mutated from radiation from an atomic bomb, so he may be suffering from so kind of brain damage.
Ah the Justice Guild episode, its both wholesome and heartbreaking at the same time. Sure the Guild is insanely cheesy and even a little dated but I like how they are purely optimistic heroes who always believe in justice and nobility, its kind of nice having such wholly good guys as heroes.
@@iceluvndiva21 When the woke leftist, communist, marxist social justice activists took over the comic industry. As to a more exact date, it was somewhere in the early 2010s and they effectively went into overdrive in 2016 onwards when Trump woke us up to challenge their narratives and what they're doing to ruin our culture.
@@iceluvndiva21 the Dark Age of comics was the start of it, but ultimately, it was when comic characters became more than just something for kids... I guess starting with the Watchmen movie and certain writers not getting the point
@@InfernosReaper Not getting the point is really where the rot began. Snyder hated superhero comics until he found out they could be violent. Jaded cynics refuse to believe someone like Superman could be an honest altruist. Booster Gold's good heart got flanderized out to make way for idiocy and more greed. Wonder Woman has been depicted not as a warrior who'll kill when needed, but will employ it first without thought. Violence and flaw were seen as inherently better, as opposed to tools to be used in line with the situation. It says something when Tony Stark is more consistently written as a caring, compassionate, and self-sacrificing individual than freaking Superman in contemporary versions. Look, I overall quite like Tony as a character, and he's a better person than some writers give him credit for, but if he's showing more humility and patience than Clark, either that Tony is too good, or that Clark isn't good enough. And the "deconstructionist" types are so high on their own egos, they miss that the idea of people using extraordinary powers for personal gain existed as supervillains, and the idea of heroes going bad was old before Ennis put hateful pencil to paper.
The Guild standing up to Ray, despite being merely an extension of his mind, could show that Ray know what he is doing is wrong and it took the JL's influence to get him to change
or that Ray made them to authentic he created them to be those heroes and he succeeded just unfortunlely for him those heroes knew what he was doing was wrong.
Speaking from my own experiences with childhood trauma & lashing out when my mental health problems started? I definitely get where he's coming from. I still don't think he's at all in the right, but I get why he's doing what he dose. And I think another reason why they were a little hesitant about fighting him (other than the obvious death toll for them and the city) is that deep down? They understand he's a grieving, heartbroken kid looking for some closure.
@@punkshotgun3421I agree, but at the end of the day the people of his town are more important than just his heroes, and the fact that the heroes were so willing to give their lives for them shows it, unfortunately Ray wasn’t able to prioritize his people maybe he didn’t believe in a better future for them, but either way he had to let the heroes make their sacrifice
I honestly feel bad for Ray, based off context he was most likely just a kid when some sort of war was prevented by the justice guild. I’m willing to bet that during that conflict Ray was deformed and mutated. The only way he could cope with the death of his icons and his own mutations was to make the world as he viewed it in the good old days. Not saying it was right. Just understandable
100 percent, unfortunately tho his illusion not only trapped his heroes in a world with him, but the people of his town, who were as real as he was and that rlly was made his world wrong, as the heroes themselves ultimately served all the people and not just Ray
My grandfather loved comic books and super hero’s all his life. He read the justice society, Superman, fantastic four, iron man. Everything. When I was a little and justice league was airing he would record episodes for me on VHS. When he passed away I would put them on to remember him. His favorite justice league episodes was legends and I still have the VHS recordings that he made for me as a birthday present. This show holds a special place in my heart and these episodes make me tear up every time I watch them
I always liked the implication that the justice guild turned on ray because his perfect recreation of them would absolutely sacrifice themselves to save the world
That line men. Even as a kid that line hit me deep. There's something to be said about a group of heroes that already sacrificed themselves once and then decide to do so again for justice's sake. That's true heroism.
@@sirbruno95 not gonna lie, if i was a hero in that time just like that, and i was aware of it, i wouldn't care how cringy it is, gonna be the hero and tell baddies off in the most cringe heroic manner possible! "in seaboard city! crime doesn't pay" which in my modern lingo translates to get "GET OFF MY LAWN YOU DAMN KIDS!"
Also I do enjoy the somewhat optimistic way it ends. The Guild's world was completely ruined yet the people are hopeful they can rebuild it if nothing else than to honor everything their heroes sacrificed. Sure the cynic would say that's impossible to pull off but some times we need optimism.
I listened to some commentary and originally, the sky was going to be coloured brown to showcase the destruction of the world and how they will all have to face reality and rebuild it. But the creators were like "Okay. We don't want the heroes to leave with this incredibly depressing imagery," so they turned it blue to showcase a more hopeful end.
It goes to show u, being stuck in a seemingly better illusion with no future is way worse than a harsh reality with a future and the possibility to change it for the better
The part when the justice society discusses how they'll die if they fight the villain but did it anyway always gets me chocked up. It's little scenes like that that made me fall in love with super heroes
The best part was, since Ray altered the world so the JS always wins THEY easily overpowered Ray even though the equally or even more objectively powerful JL members were trounced by him.
So I've rewatched this video and there's something that i realized later. I think the reason Hawk girl believes the graves are real, is very specific but not ever brought up. They are over grown. Overgrown graves don't just happen, that takes several months if not Years of neglect to reach that point specially with how well maintained the rest of the cemetery is (The grass has been obviously mowed so the vines and leaves covering the stones where very intentionally not trimmed.)
You just blew my mind with that. That also gives Ray the credit of making sure they had actual graves, but since they weren't maintained it's like he wants to make sure the sadness of their "Deaths" were completely forgotten.
To your ending point about what heroes can represent, someone far wiser than I said it best. "Nurture your mind with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic, makes heroes."
You’ve hit the nail on the head Shady. The Great One, Jack Kirby, once said (and I’m paraphrasing of course) “I wanted to make Captain America the American Achilles. Someone that fulfilled the ideas of our nation. Not an America as it is, but an America as it should be. A nation of ideals and action.” Comics, even to the writers, were a lot more than just stories for kids.
People who writes off comics as kids’ stuff are ignoring the hard work put into them and the media’s potential realised by the likes of the Carl Barks and Darwyn Cookes. A type of media that began as a racket no less. A media that’s being done wrong by the uninspired and passionless who only sees it as a platform into a professional screenwriting career rather than a canvas to explore ideas.
See, I've never understood that mindset. "Just stories for kids." Stories told to children are the most important ones, because they will learn from those stories. Those are the stories that will help them form foundational beliefs about core parts of the world, like justice, morality and free will vs destiny. Those are the stories that matter the most, not the least!
An episode I love is the one where the rogue Amazon releases a pathogen that only targets males. I love it because Hawk-Girl actually calls Wonder Woman on some of her Amazonian feminist bullshit. "We don't teach hatred!' "...Except when it comes to men." AND "But who wants to live in a world without men?" "They can't be THAT essential to your life." "...Don't knock it till you've tried it, Princess."
Shady: Green Lantern got sent back to the 50’s, a great time in America Streak: You’re a credit to your people son. Shady: 😐………………………Oh yeah, the 50’s.
He may be a fictional character but I'll always look up to Optimus Prime, "Be strong enough to be gentle" the mantra Peter Cullen follows when being Optimus
10:00 For those who don’t understand the “You’re a credit to your people son” line, it’s funny/ironic because in the 1950’s (roughly where this episode takes place) Black African Americans were constantly facing racial segregation and racism daily. But this ended thanks to the efforts of the Civil Rights Movement and inspirational CR activists like Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks.
Tom Turbine was actually supposed to be a mix of The Golden Age Atom AKA Al Pratt, along with some Hourman, and a bit of Golden Age Superman. Basically due to the mishmash he ended up as the most original character the Justice Guild had and was my favorite member because of it, really wish he ended up transferring over into the comics
@Will N Yes, but Al Pratt never used a power belt to give himself super-strength. The fact that Tom Turbine doesn't wear a mask, and uses a belt gadget to give himself super strength are the parts of that character that are most likely inspired by Dynamo. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.H.U.N.D.E.R._Agents
"Legends" was one of those episodes that I always remembered watching as a kid. That juxtaposition of the corny false reality and the dark apocalyptic truth that the episode conveys left a mark, one that got across its central message. The episode deals with the theme of nostalgia, exploring two paths and the conclusions they come to. John's path is one of realisation. While he looks up the Justice Guild, he can see that they are products of their time (That compliment The Streak gives him, how Black Siren is treated within the guild etc); teaching good morals even if they aren't perfect. Once he realises the false reality, he comes to the conclusion that letting go of the past can be a good thing, carving out a better future. Ray on the other hand represents the toxicity nostalgia can cause. By creating this illusion, he's stunted his growth, living in an endless cycle and not using his mutant powers to rebuild the destroyed town. It's comforting to go back to the past, but not a healthy thing in the long run. Not to mention, he's dragged others into this facade, creating a hell on earth for those caught up in this illusion. I think this is a message more people should heed, considering that media as of late is promoting nostalgia as a way to not only make a profit, but to stop originality from flourishing (If the general public just stops going to Disney Remakes, they'll stop making them).
@@srstriker6420 Eh not quite, it's heavily implied the entire world of the Justice Guild was basic annhilated by the war, thus him trapping them in the past could be seen as preferable to the world they were stuck in.
"letting go of the past can be a good thing, carving out a better future. " some things are worth remembering... and some things are worthy of warning about. we can't COMPLETELY "let go" of the things that hold us back from a "BETTER FUTURE" ...because then we are risking FORGETTING about the warnings of the past, and dooming ourselves to repeat the same conflicts/mistakes in the future... we cant let ourselves forget that people like Adolf Hitler and Nathan Bedford Forrest and Osama Bin Laden EXISTED.
The episode is dedicated to Gardner Fox. He was the creator of the Justice Society in the 1940's. He wrote many of the Justice League's early Silver Age adventures. He also introduced the Multiverse concept in 1961's "Flash of Two Worlds."
So many people in comics and even other forms of media nowadays are all so focused on wanting to be regarded as the architects of the fictional worlds they attach themselves to that they often forget the two magic words ‘Trial’ and ‘Error’ along with missing the universal fact that you’re just making stuff up as you go and hoping all the pieces connects to each other like every other writer including the influential ones. Gardner Fox was just coming up with whatever would make a good comic to sell to the readers and inevitably making an impression on so many as a result. All while getting paid a writer’s salary at the office and doing his job. Another day, another shift.
That scene where they determine their fates makes me tear up too. For the exact reason you mention. They understand they're already gone and sacrificing themselves for the better is the only course to do.
The first time Tom Turbine says “in seaboard city crime doesn’t pay” it’s campy and silly but when he says it again while fighting Ray it’s with a more solemn tone.
When Tom Turbine powers up and says with a grim tone and shadowed face "In Seaboard City ... crime doesn't pay" I literally tear up at this illusion of an animation of a super hero that has only had a handful of lines. It is that powerful.
I actually really appreciate that Andrew Kreisberg wrote a story where John Stewart is fighting alongside comic heroes as they were in the 1940’s-50’s and didn’t shy away from acknowledging a couple of uncomfortable truths about heroes of that time, despite them seeming idyllic in every way. Some “let’s bake some cookies for the boys,” and “you’re a credit to your people,” while written in ways that are quaint and amusing, is more courageous to have inserted than ignoring them entirely, which he totally could have done.
Growing up, I used to go to the library a lot. My favorite section was the comic books, where they had collections of Golden and Silver Age comics. I liked the Justice League stuff a lot, but I always preferred the Justice Society. They were a little more cheesy, but there was something so wholesome about such a black and white world. Whenever I see this episode, it really taps into that core memory. The ending, both as a small child and as an adult leaves me sobbing every time. It’s a powerful and beautifully nostalgic episode I love. It’s the best episode of the original run of Justice League
I loved this mostly because Green Lantern reminds me of my dad. He loved comics as a kid and influenced me and my sisters to do the same. I can imagine my dad reacting the same way Green Lanturn did with his heroes. Also, I agree that I would be in heaven seeing superheroes fight and I would watch too! This episode hits hard for those reasons for me.
When I was younger I didn't really think much on this episode. Seeing this when I was older it was so much more deep on every angle especially how green lantern took it as his character arc throughout og justice league was some of the best writing ever especially when the thanagarians invaded Also did bright and cheery surface but dark and dangerous deep down perfectly
"with great power comes great reponsability" a quote so inbeded in pop culture I don't even have to tell anyone who's hero is it from, but a phrase that means the world to me, to me power is when you have the chance to do something and at times something no else can do or want to do, but if you have the chance it's your responsability to do it, is what I try to live by.
Bruh this is the Iron Giant all over again. I watched these episodes multiple times as a kid, but coming back to them as an adult elicits a profound emotional response that far eclipses my initial reaction. It's like the story has been aged in my head for 20 years like a psychological barrel of bourbon.
This episode always stuck with me because its a refreshing reconstruction of Superheroes. Its easy to be cynical and deconstructive but trying to reconstruct them back up can be hard.
Still impress's how a saturday morning cartoon was able to demonstrate the racial tones of the past without it being overhanded and mega subtle about it. nothing short of masterful. Best of all gl took it like a champ and went about being a hero with the rest of the dated heros
Subtlety. Something that’s a lost art in most stories nowadays and a skill that distinguishes great writers from the good to bad writers, letting the audience piece it together themselves on their own rather than telling them the answer. I’m more impressed that this was a JL S1 two-parter when Dwayne McDuffie hasn’t joined the writing team yet and has traits of a Dwayne McDuffie episode compared to the other S1 episodes.
@@rayvenkman2087honestly going on the internet for 5 mins has told me that a lot of people genuinely do need something spelled out for them. I don’t even mean this in a condescending way, sometimes just being flat out about something is fine or even necessary. Especially when it comes to genuinely serious topics or scenarios Carbon Monoxide is bad but the reason a lot of people don’t fear it or know how to deal with it is because they have 0 understanding of what specifically makes it bad
These episodes are great. The parallels to the JSA and ISA through their versions of Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Atom, Black Canary and Wildcat, and Icicle, Fiddler, Sportsmaster and The Wizard are great. It also harkens back to those old Crisis comics where the JL and JSA crossed worlds to team up. Even using John Stewart to parallel an element of Barry Allen, who read old Jay Garrick comics when he was a kid, then crossed over to meet him and have the same explanation that the writer of the comics somehow had a psychic link to the other Earth that made them see the characters adventures. So many great references and nods to those old Golden and Silver Age stories.
thank you for doing the work on pulling up which hero's and villains were being homaged, Original Flash + Green lantern, Wildcat, Black canary, and Sports Master were the only ones I know about prior
@Will N It's as complex as some other villains. DC especially seems to have half a dozen people connected to some aliases in history. Like...even Killer Frost for instance, at least 3-4 people.
@Will N Ronnie, as in Firestorm? I can't even keep up with who's Firestorm at any given time, unless they duplicated that matrix, because I recall there's at least one or two other iterations
Superhero shows had a very great tendency to be very depressing at the end of an episode and make you feel terrible. Batman TAS, Justice League, JLU, and Spider-Man TAS (1990s) are just a few examples that made me super depressed by the end of the episode and I loved it. It showed how not every ending is good. Not every villain or person can be saved. It won't always end on a nappy note despite it being a superhero show. Man I loved those
It's more bittersweet. Like that teen titans episode where starfire gets flung forward into time. It ends merely with the possibility that depressing future doesn't happen but the moral is it's worth it in the end to try. Which is pretty realistic for a kids show to not make such a grim future for certain avoidable. It definitely made me realize how fragile friendships are. Sadly it did end up happening to most people in my life making that future true for me. Life man, gotta love it.
I really enjoy this episode not only for all the Justice Society analog characters, but the lesson that just because something isn’t real doesn’t mean the impact they had on you as person isn’t valuable, also like the whole idea that the creators of the Guild comics were having visions of their world the same story beat used when Barry Allen first met Jay Garrick and the explanation for why Barry was inspired by the Flash comics he read was Gardner Fox dreaming about Jay’s adventures and making them into comics
and here's a maybe fun fact apparently the justice guild was supposed to be the actual justice society and not just analogs with the same first name but Dc said no
@@jadenbryant9283 oh that’s a little bit of a bummer to hear maybe it’s because they wanted to use them for another project or because they knew they’d use some in Unlimited like Wild Cat, Black Canary, Atom Smasher and even the original Star Man design showed up in some background group shots
@@josmonlee13 I actually believe albeit not entirely sure was because DC did not want to writers to portray the Justicr society the way they portrayed the justice guild
I also really love the bit where they apologize to the townsfolk for destroying their world, to which one replies, "No, we did that ourselves. Now, thanks to you, we can rebuild" (I'm paraphrasing - I don't remember it exactly). The animated JL series civilians are written with a lot of memorability and depth for a few lines. (That's a large part of why "Patriot Act" is my favorite episode.)
I’m realizing that the specific plot issue of the villains going straight back to robbing stuff is on purpose. Ray made those villains to keep the guild busy so they never find out that they’re illusory and so that he can be in the action forever, so having the villains go right back to robbing people makes perfect sense since that’s all they were made to do and nothing more
It was really awesome to see the straight laced Jon Stewart, the super responsible USMC soldier, geek out. It made this whole episode feel fun and, given the ending, so painfully heartbreaking. Also, those references man... I love you. No homo
Love you covering any show, you don't have to be the "King of the Hill guy" or the "Superhero guy" you're the "Awesome and charismatic UA-cam commentator guy". Love all of your videos Shady, keep covering the shows/episodes you are passionate about. I loved this episode of JL too, I've super appreciated the old DC shows in my college years.
The media that shapes us, no matter if it's comics, novels or even movies, will always hold a spot in our very soul. It's what helps us learn and grasp concepts that may never have sank in otherwise.( By the way, the " you made that up" bit made me snort laugh)
What was it South Park said at the end of that imaginationland episode.. something like, haven't luke skywalker and santa claus affected your lives more than most real people in this room?
24:04 “And that’s real enough for me” Man, what a beautiful way to wrap up the video, I’m a newcomer to your channel but so far I’ve loved your Justice League videos
20:30 Ray wasn't a reality warper. He had immense telepathic and telekinetic powers that basically let him coat the entire area in a full tactile illusion. Think the Holodeck from Star Trek. Except he basically made the projections of the JLA as real as possible, which is why they acted against him ultimately.
How did they NOT all starve with the land being fallow and blasted if there wasn't at least some reality warping involved? Yes, a MAJOR component of Ray's powers is the telepathic and telekinetic abilities, but there's got to be some reality warping in there.
Ray biggest mistake was to make a perfect copy of the Justice Guild because just like the originals they were willing to give their life to save others.
It's nice to see a franchise that's proud of it's quirky past instead of making fun of it or re-writing it like Disney. Honestly modern Disney is an example of everything wrong with modern franchises.
What has Disney done to not address its quirky past? If you're talking about the MCU its been doing that quite a bit recently. The old costumes in stuff like Doctor Strange and Wanda vision, odd concepts like in Thor and Warewolf by night and She-Hulk, and the weird villains like in Moonknight and Loki. And those are just the ones I know of, I've not seen it all. I'm not really a fan of the MCU anymore, but I'd never say that was something it was lacking in or they were afraid of.
@@thod8820 I was primarily referring to the unnecessary live action remakes of beloved classics. But if you're asking about the MCU specifically, it's whenever they try to make a self aware joke like "that's a silly name" or "why do you always do all those poses." When they do that it doesn't feel like there being self aware in a clever way and more so that they feel awkward about themself being a superhero franchise.
21:20 I like how even though the times have changed with how we portray heroes, there is a very important consistency in what a true hero is. And that's the sacrifice it takes to be one. Had the JL been in a Similar situation of the Justice Guild, all of them would have made the choice to die in order to protect the others and end this fake reality. Also don't worry about Ray. Pretty sure in the show they outright say he has an aneurism when the JG turn on him and when his illusion shatters so does his brain.
I think the plot holes can be explained just because of Ray's powers. The story has to play out like his comic stories do so if Flash gets captured in a trap that under all intents he should be able to get out easily he can't escape. It's only once ray's ruse is revealed and pulls him out of the rules of his own world that the others are able to really act out of character.
I can relate so hard to GL and Shady's feelings here about comic book heroes and what they can do for people. I went through a really rough time in high school, and it's no exaggeration when I say that finding the X-Men comics then saved my life. I may not read those comics or really keep up with what movies are/aren't doing with them anymore, but I'll never forget how much I looked forward to picking up new issues, finding a safe place to read them in, finding friends who liked them as much as I did, finding more spaces I belonged in... The people and stories may have been fictional, but everything I got from them was real and I immediately know to distrust anyone who would pish-posh that.
One of the JL episodes where you legit feel sorry for the villain. His interpretation of his heroes shows how pulpy and how silver age-esque the heroes might have gotten had it not been for the war.
7:10 Diana is also an ancient greek in culture which was VERY big on hospitality and not messing with the host/guests, she was also a divinely boosted diplomat. So I think she'd be able to do a good job of at least following along and not making a fuss for the sake of ego or projection.
Seeing as how the universes were shown to be linked through the comic books being adaptations of their universe, I think Tom Turbine’s portal was already connected to the Justice League’s universe. No need to reroute the portal if it’s auto connected to the right universe.
First. I can't stop crying. Second. This episode long ago when it first aired is why every time someone says ' its just fiction " I get mad. If something can change you. Give you a better outlook. Inspire you. Make you feel something. Then it is real to you. They don't need to be alive. They helped to shape your world.
Yes, this is one of the best justice league episodes (that's saying something, because there are so many great episodes). Whimsical and fun in a golden-era comics way in most of the runtime, and terribly dark when you discover the truth. I love it.
Great essay, man! This episode hits deep from the nostalgia factor/love letter to the Golden Age, to the nuclear horrors/post-apocalyptic feelings, to the sacrifices the Guild made. The DCAU will always stand at the forefront of superhero stories. And this episode is one of their shining gems.
10:15 It was the 50’s. Still a good episode! We need to remember why we loved superheroes cause currently they are dying and being replaced by things that are wearing them like cheap knockoff suits.
19:38 prior to Ray's deception being exposed, they were illusions. but when they decided to defeat Ray, the real guild came back in place of their constructs.
Your rule following anecdote reminds me of a character from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. Galad Damodred's character trait is that he unwaveringly does what is right. His half sister even says, "No matter who it hurts, and he would expect them to understand." and he is one of my favorite characters in fiction.
Batman made me who I am today. He taught me the importance of justice over revenge, and how to take my anger and turn it into fuel. Everything I know has roots in Batman, this fictional character raised me more than my parents ever did. And one day, I learned the most valuable lesson of all from him. Don't be like Batman. Batman is a sad man who's internalizing his truama and risking his life because, in his eyes, he holds no value unless he's Batman. He's not happy or healthy, yes he's an incredible hero, but he's not an incredible man. We have to strive to be happy. People can't keep bottling in our pain or we'll end up alone in our own sadness. Be like superman instead, a man secure in his identity and satisfied just to help, or wonder woman, a curious woman who's not afraid of who she is and exploring a new world. Hell, even Batmans sons are better role models, Dick Grayson forged his own path and learned about himself along the way. Jason Todd learned to live with his truama and reconnect with his family. Tim Drake learned how to put his pride aside and accept change. And Damien is Damien, our favorite brat.
Thank you very much! I relate to these words of yours. As much as I love Batman for teaching me to use my pain for good, I just don't want to be like him, all obsessed, without love for anyone (not even himself), and without any purpose in life outside seeking revenge on criminals.
Also one of the reason s why flash was not doing his normal power stunts to escape something as simple as a block of ice and the other Justice League heroes are being so easily defeated is the fact that the entire area was in fact under a mass telepathic suggestion effect... They were literally being psychically manipulated into losing so as to continue the illusion....."because that's what superheroes do". This is also why Martian manhunter kept having those seizures since as an actual telepath he was more resistant to it than others but was probably caught off guard by the fact that it was essentially a permanent field effect as opposed to a specific mental attack.
I kinda headcanon that the *real* Guild came through their copies in their final moment here. Like the souls of them were caught in a limbo by Ray but the league snapped them out of it, and they choose to give up this second chance to save their world once again
Copy anything completely enough, and it'll do what the original would have. The kid made copies of heroic ideals of those people he lost. Of course they turned on him when it became clear he was the cause of the injustice. Maybe the real Guild would have hesitated before they did the right thing, but the heroic ideals wouldn't.
Love the fact the robot in the beginning looks like an Eva Unit. Classic 90s anime. The Injustice Guild I think are based on Wizard(Sir Swami), Sportsmaster(Sportsman), Icicle(Dr. Blizzard) and Fiddler(Music Master), and Brainwave(the true villain) who were the Justice Society's foes I loved this episode, it's easily one of my favorites too for so many of the same reasons. It's a well-crafted episode that did so much more then it had to(modern hero/retro hero crossover) and showed us what power and positive influence superhero stories should share. Also there's an adaptation of Public Enemies that brought back DCAU's Superman, Batman, and Lex voice actors. Worth a watch.
Whenever I hear people make comments about things like comics being kids stuff, or it doesn't matter since it wasn't real, I always remember stories like this. While yes they may not be real or the stories didn't happen, what they mean is very much real and something we should carry with us even into our old age.
It’ll be a long time before it happens, but if you ever want some more superhero media that is incredibly well-written and important, I recommend checking out Green Lantern: The Animated Series. One character has a very Zuko-esque (but still VERY unique) redemption arc you might like.
@@theabsolutechadlad5457 That series definitely left a big impression on me, it’s honestly worthy of being up in the great superhero shows like Batman TAS and Superman TAS.
yeah i didn't believe the hype at first, and I've always hated that dumb 'other colors of lanterns' crud, but holy damn that show pulled it off and then some. spectacular spider-man would also be great for shadeyrags to check out.
@@KairuHakubi Honestly, since my dad's a huge comics fan(before they went downhill) he would tell me about the different rings and what they stand for, and it became one of my favorite aspects of the DC universe, and seeing a show cover some of those rings felt incredibly satisfying, especially the Blue Lanterns since they're my favorite
@@theabsolutechadlad5457 i have never felt so old as hearing someone say back in his childhood his dad taught him about the different color lantern corps..
We don’t know when the Justice Guild of America died, but the episode gave us some clues; the show was aired in 2002, Stewart mentioned the last Justice Guild comic before cancellation was published 40 years prior to the show. If we subtract 2002 to 40 years, we get 1962. More clues was that peace talks to descale a nuclear war deteriorated, the closest to a nuclear war was the Cuban Missiles Crisis. In the Justice Guild universe, the peace talks to descale the Cuban Missile Crisis failed and it triggered World War III, killing the Justice Guild and destroying Seaboard City.
What I love is how ray was defeated the legends are psychic constructs made from his memories so when they fought him his powers were effectively turned against him and overwhelmed him
Honestly would like to see the thanagarian invasion and how many things it influenced for future justice league shows as martian manhunter did the whole man screw thing long before meggan made it cool but he just had better control to never do it again as he left someone crippled permeantly.
That last message hits hard. I wasn't really into superheroes growing up but i was into games and when i was a little kid i played a couple of brand new games for the NES called The Legend of Zelda and Metroid (yes, I'm old). As a little kid i had a fear of being alone and i was very afraid of the world and enclosed spaces. Not in a claustrophobic way but more of a fear of mazes or being alone in a confusing place where something could jump out at me. It's corny but Link and especially Samus showed me that I didn't have to be afraid of the dark. That the world wasn't something to fear but something to be explored. And Samus being a woman made me so happy that she became a childhood hero for me. I even wanted to become a bounty hunter when I grew up (high school law enforcement classes made me rethink that once i saw how disturbingly graphic that path could be).
8:27 Fun fact - that explanation almost verbatim is the same given in the first DC comic book establishing their multiverse in Flash #123, "Flash of Two Worlds" to explain the similar premise of how Barry Allen was inspired to become the Flash on his Earth having grown up reading comics starring the original Flash, Jay Garrick.
"We died once to save this Earth... and we can do it again."
Because THAT'S what heroes do.
And that's a FACT
And a credit to my people
I miss when heros were good for goods sake. I mean I love complex characters and redemption stories but I'm not for heros who are just insanely prideful
@@iceluvndiva21 Who are you talking about? Who are the heroes like that? The few I can think of the pridefulness is a key feature. Iron man comes to mind:
A prideful 2nd generation weapons maker injured by his own bomb. His prideful "I'm always right" nature is what caused the Civil War story arc. For the MCU Iron Man this is also what created the Ultron story arc.
@@jeremycarnes1656 Dude I've been reading the comments section and it's depressing how many people don't understand that quote.
"You're a credit to your people" is the greatest line in the entire Timmverse
RIGHT AFTER HE SAID THE 50S WAS A GOOD TIME IN USA JUST MAKES MY LAUGH MY EYES OUT OMG
Bro that shit came out of nowhere
I died man 💀
@@ExpiredGranolaBar. Why, the"racist undertone"?
@@Bragemaster Depending on who you ask, it was. Just not for all people obviously. And even then in the case of civil rights, one could argue that the 50's was at least the beginning of the end of discrimination and segregation, since it was around the mid 50's that Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on the bus started the Montgomery bus boycott, which in turn eventually led to the Civil Rights movement being formed.
Just say DCAU
I love the implication that even if the heroes are made by the kids power, he still subcontiously knows just how heroic they truly are
Yep. He made false versions of the true heroes, and made them so perfect that you couldn't tell the difference.
@@hariman7727
shows that even as warped as he became, he still loved and respected his heroes
@@NoRegs30he knew that he was a villain and that his heros wouldn't side with him maybe he didn't realize it but his subconscious did
Is like robot Batman from His Silicon Soul, it was so much like the original that it couldn't keep itself from helping people and not killing
Is like robot Batman from His Silicon Soul, it was so much like the original that it couldn't keep itself from helping people and not killing
Its genuinely depressing that there are so many deconstructions now a days. They’re entirely missing the point of why we need heros.
“Folks need heros Chief, to give ‘em hope. So smile would ya, while we still got something to smile about”
-Sgt Johnson
Sgt would be proud
I'm down for a good deconstruction every now and then, but I'd like to see more of them end with "this is why this person is good" instead of "this person is actually kinda bad and they tricked you since childhood".
God what a good quote, and personally Blur did SO WELL on the Halo 2 remake
@@ChrisVillagomezdon’t ya mean Remaster?
@@swishfish8858 "It strikes me that the only reason to take apart a pocket watch, or a car engine, aside from the simple delight of disassembly, is to find out how it works. To understand it, so you can put it back together again better than before, or build a new one that goes beyond what the old one could do. We've been taking apart the superhero for ten years or more; it's time to put it back together and wind it up, time to take it out on the road and floor it, see what it'll do."
- Kurt Busiek, Astro City, on the whole point of Deconstruction
Your build up to the “you’re a credit to your people” line was hilarious
In all honesty i didnt get why there was build up until i dug deeper, apparently i only saw one side of the coin cause i thought it was a genuine "you make your country, people and family proud" compliment, on the other side i think people over think it as an unintended form of racism
Ooooooh.....
LMAO exactly why I came here
@@aced3657 They aren't "overthinking" it Green Lantern literally sighs in disappointment after he's told that.
And people are still throwing a stupid fit over it
The green lantern bit. The reason John Stewart's ring makes basic shapes is because of John Stewart. It's his personality, he's no nonsense, efficient, marine. To make a complex shape is a waste of time, it just needs to function. Its also easier for the animators. The OG green lantern always had overly complicated shapes.
This is actually the opposite of comic book John Stewart. As I showed in the comic panel, John often adds unnecessary detail to his constructs in the comics because he's an engineer. It needs to work, but he doesn't imagine it working without proper structure.
Also, simple constructs are not limited to John in this show, the other Lanterns aren't very imaginative either.
@@ShadyDoorags didn't the more recent comics reboot him to be a Marine?
@@christianjohnson5379 He was a marine before becoming an engineer. He's always been an engineer, but the comics retconned his marine background into existence.
@@ShadyDoorags I thought it was because of a budget reason that he doesn’t make constructs
Which is one more reason I liked Kyle better, at least STAS's version of him. Super creative, cool guy. weaponizes artistic ability.
but they flat-out admitted "nah, we wanted a black guy" at a time when that didn't even win you that many points yet. they were just _already_ like that.
I mean you had Steel, you potentially had Black Lightning, you had uhhh hell you could have thrown Huntress in there a big early. but sure, whatever. ditch the really good character you set up earlier. it's his fault for being white.
The ending of what actually happened for this one was tragic. A kid who was mutilated by a nuclear bomb and had to watch his childhood and heroes die in front of him used powers he never should have had to force himself and everyone else in a permanent state because he couldn't let go. I mean, what he did was awful, and for *40 years*, but I can't help but feel for him.
Good thing that feeling fades when you do remember that he was forcing all the survivors to live a sterile fantasy. And....then Wanda did it in Wandavision, where the show tried to lampshade her awfulness.
@@darwinxavier3516wandavision is the first show I thought of when I watched this episode
@@darwinxavier3516 In Ray's defense he was basically driven insane by the nuke. He deserved a second chance IMO.
@@darwinxavier3516 Except the difference that the story doesn’t fall apart towards the end like a lot of Disney’s recent outputs.
Such a tragedy
The person I always feel bad for is Ray, even in his warped mind, he can't see himself overpowering his heroes. He loved them enough to recreate reality just to have them be around after all.
But damn if hearing GL say: "YOU'RE REAL?" is still the funniest shit that brings out of it.
to be fair, can you blame him when everything else was an illusion?
@@JohnMasterCheif
I mean I would too. Hell I had the same reaction when I first saw that. As for Ray? I'm on the fences.
@@JohnMasterCheifI mean, why else would he and the rest want to end the illusion? They’re real people trapped in Ray’s world. Otherwise, it would be a bit of a dick move to end Ray’s illusion if it wasn’t hurting anyone.
What's makes this dark is that they don't exactly state what happened to Ray. Did he pass out or pass away?
Besides, having a fantastical world is miles better than the real one being destroyed by nuclear and radiation.
@@فهدالدوسري-ح6ض life is cruel. But staying in a fantasy won’t make it better. It’s taking those best attributes and using to make a better place
This ending was a tear jerker. Judge me, I don't care. It punched my gut.
And Shady's review is a credit to his people.
I cried too and I was in 20s when this first aired.
I... You.... Shady's reviews are pretty good...
@@ghostdude45your comment is a credit to my people
@jeremycarnes1656 I flipin love you 🤣
@@jeremycarnes1656Don't care
I've heard one theory somewhere that the reason the Justice Guild were able to fight back against Ray Thompson because he subconsciously felt guilty about imprisoning and tormenting all those people and wanted to be punished for it. That or he just recreated the Guild too well and made them real heroes in the end. Anyway this is truly among the best episodes of one of the best super hero series on television.
R.I.P. JGA, both your greatest sacrifices will never be forgotten.
That interpretation takes on an _entirely_ new meaning after Wanda-Vision...
I just like to think he admired em to such point where taking their free will or modifying their behaviour was out of question even it would mean the end of the illusion.
Thats sad because even if wrong, Ray was acting out of love for the Justice Guild.
This episode kind of reminds me of Pokemon The Movie 3 with Molly and Entei.
Considering how magic and soul shown to exist in DCAU it might be that ray actually manages to imprison their soul hence they are able to act independently unlike the villains.
So they're his personal Pyramid Head?
A line that hit me was Shayera giving John support with a new outlook. She wasn't one to care for fiction or fantasies, but the experience and those words. "They gave their lives for us. Thats real enough for me." Including his stuggle that yea, they weren't real. But they impacted him on a level to made him who he is, that too would be real enough for Shayera
They were real enough to know justice
It hits harder knowing what we later learn about Thanagar's highly rational, materialist culture and how that impacts her world view in episodes like The Terror Beyond.
Man ,….you on it.
I'm going to disagree. While they were created, she understood they were still real. They could reason and think. They were like robots that became aware.
It's an allegory to us, the readers. The stories and ideals in those comics came from somewhere, Humanity as a whole. Without beliefs, we're aimless. Which is why I loved seeing the Guild take on their "Creator", showing that they believed in principles that don't belong solely to him. In a weird way, you can see how someone could lose themselves as a reader or a creator yet still hold them in high regard obsessively in an unhealthy fashion. But the creations themselves can outlast them.
"We died once to save this Earth, we can do it again." God that line and "They gave their lives for us, that's real enough for me." Live rent free in my head. This is arguably one of my favourite JL episodes. Man id have loved to see Kyle Rayner using his gundam constructs in an animated series, some of my favourite comic constructs are Kyles.
Kyle was in Superman the Animated Series, he fought Sinestro along side Superman
@@zeldagameryt4018 Yeah Its why I loved that show the Flash also appeared as well.
Mine too
I'd argue that the "plot problems" actually add to it. The golden and silver ages can be infamous for heroes getting trapped in situations that their power sets should be more than adequate for getting out of.
So the flash being unable to break free and falling unconscious after the car scene actually makes sense if you look at it from that perspective.
And we can argue that Ray is making the guild heroes not think of more efficient ways to use their powers, since he wants them trapped in never ending cheesy battles.
I kinda assumed it was just him trying to discover the villain's lair.
Small fun fact, but Ray Thompson is based on two people: Roy Thomas, legendary writer for Marvel and DC in the silver and bronze ages, notable for his fanatism for golden age heroes (since he grew up with those heroes), and Rick Jones, sidekick to the Hulk, Captain America and other heroes during the silver age, and who once gained psychic powers that allowed him to bring many heroes back from the golden age, similar to what Ray did .
Ooooh, very interesting details!
According to Bruce Timm
Ray Thomas is Ray Bradbury and Roy Thomas.
Fun fact the Mutant looks the same as a villian from a parelle world (dc chacters like Hyperion) in an old Avengers comics written by Roy Thomas
I don't know if an official source stated this, but I believe he is also very similar to Snapper Carr of the original 1960's run of the Justice League of America, where he was the Justice League's team amscot who rarely did anything important (until he got powers of teleportation in the 80's)
And he looks like a JSA classic villain: Brainwave (Henry King Sr.)
19:57 the kicker is, that brain boy could have easily gone on to help rebuild civilization legitimately, and been a superhero in his own right…. But he chose it just sit by and watch instead.
My theory is that the other survivors help the kid, so that he can cope with the loss of his heroes, meaning he learns to use his power properly and DOES become the new hero of the world.
I also think there might be more survivors outside of the city, and that the city was isolated by the illusion.
Self inserts can be hard to feel right
@@hariman7727 I like to imagine that the Justice Guild turning on him was the result of him being forced to face the fact that the real Justice Guild would never have approved of what he was doing.
@@spongeintheshoe Yep. And while he made the fake Justice Guild, he also made them accurate and with free will, so they could oppose their "creator" for the good of the people of the city.
Well, he was just a kid who watched his whole world and everyone he cared about die, so it's not surprising he cracked. Also, it's heavily implied he was mutated from radiation from an atomic bomb, so he may be suffering from so kind of brain damage.
Ah the Justice Guild episode, its both wholesome and heartbreaking at the same time. Sure the Guild is insanely cheesy and even a little dated but I like how they are purely optimistic heroes who always believe in justice and nobility, its kind of nice having such wholly good guys as heroes.
And there final act even after learning they are just reality warping illusions was doing the right thing even if it would erase there existence.
When did superheros stop being genuinely good people?
@@iceluvndiva21 When the woke leftist, communist, marxist social justice activists took over the comic industry. As to a more exact date, it was somewhere in the early 2010s and they effectively went into overdrive in 2016 onwards when Trump woke us up to challenge their narratives and what they're doing to ruin our culture.
@@iceluvndiva21 the Dark Age of comics was the start of it, but ultimately, it was when comic characters became more than just something for kids... I guess starting with the Watchmen movie and certain writers not getting the point
@@InfernosReaper Not getting the point is really where the rot began. Snyder hated superhero comics until he found out they could be violent. Jaded cynics refuse to believe someone like Superman could be an honest altruist. Booster Gold's good heart got flanderized out to make way for idiocy and more greed. Wonder Woman has been depicted not as a warrior who'll kill when needed, but will employ it first without thought.
Violence and flaw were seen as inherently better, as opposed to tools to be used in line with the situation. It says something when Tony Stark is more consistently written as a caring, compassionate, and self-sacrificing individual than freaking Superman in contemporary versions. Look, I overall quite like Tony as a character, and he's a better person than some writers give him credit for, but if he's showing more humility and patience than Clark, either that Tony is too good, or that Clark isn't good enough.
And the "deconstructionist" types are so high on their own egos, they miss that the idea of people using extraordinary powers for personal gain existed as supervillains, and the idea of heroes going bad was old before Ennis put hateful pencil to paper.
The Guild standing up to Ray, despite being merely an extension of his mind, could show that Ray know what he is doing is wrong and it took the JL's influence to get him to change
or that Ray made them to authentic he created them to be those heroes and he succeeded just unfortunlely for him those heroes knew what he was doing was wrong.
I feel kind of bad for the guy, I mean losing the people you looked up too is hard and not wanting to let them go is a normal reaction to such things
@@frankspick7544suffering from success
Speaking from my own experiences with childhood trauma & lashing out when my mental health problems started? I definitely get where he's coming from. I still don't think he's at all in the right, but I get why he's doing what he dose. And I think another reason why they were a little hesitant about fighting him (other than the obvious death toll for them and the city) is that deep down? They understand he's a grieving, heartbroken kid looking for some closure.
@@punkshotgun3421I agree, but at the end of the day the people of his town are more important than just his heroes, and the fact that the heroes were so willing to give their lives for them shows it, unfortunately Ray wasn’t able to prioritize his people maybe he didn’t believe in a better future for them, but either way he had to let the heroes make their sacrifice
I honestly feel bad for Ray, based off context he was most likely just a kid when some sort of war was prevented by the justice guild. I’m willing to bet that during that conflict Ray was deformed and mutated. The only way he could cope with the death of his icons and his own mutations was to make the world as he viewed it in the good old days. Not saying it was right. Just understandable
Its easy for people to judge when you didnt go through the shit he did
100 percent, unfortunately tho his illusion not only trapped his heroes in a world with him, but the people of his town, who were as real as he was and that rlly was made his world wrong, as the heroes themselves ultimately served all the people and not just Ray
My grandfather loved comic books and super hero’s all his life. He read the justice society, Superman, fantastic four, iron man. Everything. When I was a little and justice league was airing he would record episodes for me on VHS. When he passed away I would put them on to remember him. His favorite justice league episodes was legends and I still have the VHS recordings that he made for me as a birthday present.
This show holds a special place in my heart and these episodes make me tear up every time I watch them
RIP to your grandfather 🙏❤️
May he rest in peace
I always liked the implication that the justice guild turned on ray because his perfect recreation of them would absolutely sacrifice themselves to save the world
"We died once to save this Earth... and we can do it again."
Let Justice Prevail!
in seaboard city...crime doesn't pay
Always hits me in the feels
@@DarkTemplarKain That line always makes me laugh !!! So corny,yet the heroes actually mean it.
That line men. Even as a kid that line hit me deep. There's something to be said about a group of heroes that already sacrificed themselves once and then decide to do so again for justice's sake. That's true heroism.
@@sirbruno95 not gonna lie, if i was a hero in that time just like that, and i was aware of it, i wouldn't care how cringy it is, gonna be the hero and tell baddies off in the most cringe heroic manner possible! "in seaboard city! crime doesn't pay" which in my modern lingo translates to get "GET OFF MY LAWN YOU DAMN KIDS!"
Also I do enjoy the somewhat optimistic way it ends. The Guild's world was completely ruined yet the people are hopeful they can rebuild it if nothing else than to honor everything their heroes sacrificed. Sure the cynic would say that's impossible to pull off but some times we need optimism.
"nothing is impossible, if you're willing to believe in a little magic"
I listened to some commentary and originally, the sky was going to be coloured brown to showcase the destruction of the world and how they will all have to face reality and rebuild it. But the creators were like "Okay. We don't want the heroes to leave with this incredibly depressing imagery," so they turned it blue to showcase a more hopeful end.
It goes to show u, being stuck in a seemingly better illusion with no future is way worse than a harsh reality with a future and the possibility to change it for the better
The part when the justice society discusses how they'll die if they fight the villain but did it anyway always gets me chocked up. It's little scenes like that that made me fall in love with super heroes
The best part was, since Ray altered the world so the JS always wins THEY easily overpowered Ray even though the equally or even more objectively powerful JL members were trounced by him.
Because the hero has to win, at least with this story the world might still be broken but a group of heros was around to save the day.
So I've rewatched this video and there's something that i realized later. I think the reason Hawk girl believes the graves are real, is very specific but not ever brought up. They are over grown. Overgrown graves don't just happen, that takes several months if not Years of neglect to reach that point specially with how well maintained the rest of the cemetery is (The grass has been obviously mowed so the vines and leaves covering the stones where very intentionally not trimmed.)
You just blew my mind with that. That also gives Ray the credit of making sure they had actual graves, but since they weren't maintained it's like he wants to make sure the sadness of their "Deaths" were completely forgotten.
To your ending point about what heroes can represent, someone far wiser than I said it best.
"Nurture your mind with great thoughts. To believe in the heroic, makes heroes."
You’ve hit the nail on the head Shady. The Great One, Jack Kirby, once said (and I’m paraphrasing of course) “I wanted to make Captain America the American Achilles. Someone that fulfilled the ideas of our nation. Not an America as it is, but an America as it should be. A nation of ideals and action.” Comics, even to the writers, were a lot more than just stories for kids.
People who writes off comics as kids’ stuff are ignoring the hard work put into them and the media’s potential realised by the likes of the Carl Barks and Darwyn Cookes. A type of media that began as a racket no less. A media that’s being done wrong by the uninspired and passionless who only sees it as a platform into a professional screenwriting career rather than a canvas to explore ideas.
Some of us kids were so inspired that we grew up to choose the professions that we did.
@@rayvenkman2087 You tell 'em, pal. This shit is hard to do! And it can perform wonders like this show's writing clearly holds in high regard.
See, I've never understood that mindset. "Just stories for kids." Stories told to children are the most important ones, because they will learn from those stories. Those are the stories that will help them form foundational beliefs about core parts of the world, like justice, morality and free will vs destiny. Those are the stories that matter the most, not the least!
Steve representing America's Ideals and The American Dream is so beautiful. It's why him and Clark are my top two heroes.
An episode I love is the one where the rogue Amazon releases a pathogen that only targets males. I love it because Hawk-Girl actually calls Wonder Woman on some of her Amazonian feminist bullshit.
"We don't teach hatred!'
"...Except when it comes to men."
AND
"But who wants to live in a world without men?"
"They can't be THAT essential to your life."
"...Don't knock it till you've tried it, Princess."
kkkkkk🤣
Ww canonically a virgin
Hawk Girl calls out WW again in the Secret Society episode from Season 2.
@@Zacman1123 yeah because it just shows that Wonder Woman is nothing more than a PC thug
Hawk chad destroys virgin Amazon with facts and logic
Shady: Green Lantern got sent back to the 50’s, a great time in America
Streak: You’re a credit to your people son.
Shady: 😐………………………Oh yeah, the 50’s.
I always forget that scene and it's awkward every time.
Nah,bro fr said “your one of the good ones”
*extended dial tone noise*
Pretty sure that line in context as in "your people" as "your dimensions" as if he was saying your are good hero to your group of super friends.
@@bloodysimile4893 What would he even know about the other dimention? That explaination is so weak.
He may be a fictional character but I'll always look up to Optimus Prime, "Be strong enough to be gentle" the mantra Peter Cullen follows when being Optimus
The best part of this episode was the pure unmitigated joy from Shady. If you don't love this episode, Shady's love will make you love it.
Like the episode of shady or the Justice League episode?
Yes.@@freelands8355
10:00 For those who don’t understand the “You’re a credit to your people son” line, it’s funny/ironic because in the 1950’s (roughly where this episode takes place) Black African Americans were constantly facing racial segregation and racism daily. But this ended thanks to the efforts of the Civil Rights Movement and inspirational CR activists like Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks.
Tom Turbine was actually supposed to be a mix of The Golden Age Atom AKA Al Pratt, along with some Hourman, and a bit of Golden Age Superman. Basically due to the mishmash he ended up as the most original character the Justice Guild had and was my favorite member because of it, really wish he ended up transferring over into the comics
oh so he's not related to red tornado. okay.
@Kairu Hakubi he's kinda all of the ones that didn't have a direct pastiche so yeah he's got a bit of red tornado.
@@kyuven Least in the T, but the JSA's Red Tornado was Ma Hunkel who dressed in pots and pans to fight crime, not the robot Tornado
Also, his powers are a reference to a 1960s super hero called "The Dynamo" from the indie super hero comic "T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents".
@Will N Yes, but Al Pratt never used a power belt to give himself super-strength. The fact that Tom Turbine doesn't wear a mask, and uses a belt gadget to give himself super strength are the parts of that character that are most likely inspired by Dynamo. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.H.U.N.D.E.R._Agents
"Legends" was one of those episodes that I always remembered watching as a kid. That juxtaposition of the corny false reality and the dark apocalyptic truth that the episode conveys left a mark, one that got across its central message.
The episode deals with the theme of nostalgia, exploring two paths and the conclusions they come to.
John's path is one of realisation. While he looks up the Justice Guild, he can see that they are products of their time (That compliment The Streak gives him, how Black Siren is treated within the guild etc); teaching good morals even if they aren't perfect. Once he realises the false reality, he comes to the conclusion that letting go of the past can be a good thing, carving out a better future.
Ray on the other hand represents the toxicity nostalgia can cause. By creating this illusion, he's stunted his growth, living in an endless cycle and not using his mutant powers to rebuild the destroyed town. It's comforting to go back to the past, but not a healthy thing in the long run. Not to mention, he's dragged others into this facade, creating a hell on earth for those caught up in this illusion.
I think this is a message more people should heed, considering that media as of late is promoting nostalgia as a way to not only make a profit, but to stop originality from flourishing (If the general public just stops going to Disney Remakes, they'll stop making them).
Ray is probably the closest thing to Hector Hammond in this series and he is just like Scarlet Witch in Wandavision
@@srstriker6420 Eh not quite, it's heavily implied the entire world of the Justice Guild was basic annhilated by the war, thus him trapping them in the past could be seen as preferable to the world they were stuck in.
That was awesome
"letting go of the past can be a good thing, carving out a better future. "
some things are worth remembering... and some things are worthy of warning about.
we can't COMPLETELY "let go" of the things that hold us back from a "BETTER FUTURE" ...because then we are risking FORGETTING about the warnings of the past, and dooming ourselves to repeat the same conflicts/mistakes in the future... we cant let ourselves forget that people like Adolf Hitler and Nathan Bedford Forrest and Osama Bin Laden EXISTED.
@@abigails4088 Yes, we must remember those brave heroes of humanity. Hilter, Forrest Gump, Obama I will never forget you.
The episode is dedicated to Gardner Fox. He was the creator of the Justice Society in the 1940's. He wrote many of the Justice League's early Silver Age adventures. He also introduced the Multiverse concept in 1961's "Flash of Two Worlds."
So many people in comics and even other forms of media nowadays are all so focused on wanting to be regarded as the architects of the fictional worlds they attach themselves to that they often forget the two magic words ‘Trial’ and ‘Error’ along with missing the universal fact that you’re just making stuff up as you go and hoping all the pieces connects to each other like every other writer including the influential ones.
Gardner Fox was just coming up with whatever would make a good comic to sell to the readers and inevitably making an impression on so many as a result. All while getting paid a writer’s salary at the office and doing his job. Another day, another shift.
That scene where they determine their fates makes me tear up too. For the exact reason you mention. They understand they're already gone and sacrificing themselves for the better is the only course to do.
The first time Tom Turbine says “in seaboard city crime doesn’t pay” it’s campy and silly but when he says it again while fighting Ray it’s with a more solemn tone.
The real reason Flash never tried to escape…. was so he could be right next Black Siren the whole time.
Same.👍👍👍
When Tom Turbine powers up and says with a grim tone and shadowed face "In Seaboard City ... crime doesn't pay" I literally tear up at this illusion of an animation of a super hero that has only had a handful of lines. It is that powerful.
I actually really appreciate that Andrew Kreisberg wrote a story where John Stewart is fighting alongside comic heroes as they were in the 1940’s-50’s and didn’t shy away from acknowledging a couple of uncomfortable truths about heroes of that time, despite them seeming idyllic in every way.
Some “let’s bake some cookies for the boys,” and “you’re a credit to your people,” while written in ways that are quaint and amusing, is more courageous to have inserted than ignoring them entirely, which he totally could have done.
Growing up, I used to go to the library a lot. My favorite section was the comic books, where they had collections of Golden and Silver Age comics. I liked the Justice League stuff a lot, but I always preferred the Justice Society. They were a little more cheesy, but there was something so wholesome about such a black and white world.
Whenever I see this episode, it really taps into that core memory. The ending, both as a small child and as an adult leaves me sobbing every time. It’s a powerful and beautifully nostalgic episode I love. It’s the best episode of the original run of Justice League
I loved this mostly because Green Lantern reminds me of my dad. He loved comics as a kid and influenced me and my sisters to do the same. I can imagine my dad reacting the same way Green Lanturn did with his heroes.
Also, I agree that I would be in heaven seeing superheroes fight and I would watch too! This episode hits hard for those reasons for me.
Your dad is awesome 😊
When I was younger I didn't really think much on this episode. Seeing this when I was older it was so much more deep on every angle especially how green lantern took it as his character arc throughout og justice league was some of the best writing ever especially when the thanagarians invaded
Also did bright and cheery surface but dark and dangerous deep down perfectly
"with great power comes great reponsability" a quote so inbeded in pop culture I don't even have to tell anyone who's hero is it from, but a phrase that means the world to me, to me power is when you have the chance to do something and at times something no else can do or want to do, but if you have the chance it's your responsability to do it, is what I try to live by.
2:11 That time Martian Manhunter suffered such a headache that he turned into a growling kitty cat for two seconds.
Bruh this is the Iron Giant all over again. I watched these episodes multiple times as a kid, but coming back to them as an adult elicits a profound emotional response that far eclipses my initial reaction. It's like the story has been aged in my head for 20 years like a psychological barrel of bourbon.
"You are who you choose to be", after all.
This episode always stuck with me because its a refreshing reconstruction of Superheroes. Its easy to be cynical and deconstructive but trying to reconstruct them back up can be hard.
Still impress's how a saturday morning cartoon was able to demonstrate the racial tones of the past without it being overhanded and mega subtle about it. nothing short of masterful. Best of all gl took it like a champ and went about being a hero with the rest of the dated heros
Subtlety. Something that’s a lost art in most stories nowadays and a skill that distinguishes great writers from the good to bad writers, letting the audience piece it together themselves on their own rather than telling them the answer.
I’m more impressed that this was a JL S1 two-parter when Dwayne McDuffie hasn’t joined the writing team yet and has traits of a Dwayne McDuffie episode compared to the other S1 episodes.
@@rayvenkman2087honestly going on the internet for 5 mins has told me that a lot of people genuinely do need something spelled out for them.
I don’t even mean this in a condescending way, sometimes just being flat out about something is fine or even necessary. Especially when it comes to genuinely serious topics or scenarios
Carbon Monoxide is bad but the reason a lot of people don’t fear it or know how to deal with it is because they have 0 understanding of what specifically makes it bad
These episodes are great. The parallels to the JSA and ISA through their versions of Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Atom, Black Canary and Wildcat, and Icicle, Fiddler, Sportsmaster and The Wizard are great. It also harkens back to those old Crisis comics where the JL and JSA crossed worlds to team up. Even using John Stewart to parallel an element of Barry Allen, who read old Jay Garrick comics when he was a kid, then crossed over to meet him and have the same explanation that the writer of the comics somehow had a psychic link to the other Earth that made them see the characters adventures. So many great references and nods to those old Golden and Silver Age stories.
This is just a nitpick but I thought adding the Anti-Streak who is based on the Rival who is the Reverse Flash to Jay Garrick
thank you for doing the work on pulling up which hero's and villains were being homaged, Original Flash + Green lantern, Wildcat, Black canary, and Sports Master were the only ones I know about prior
@@srstriker6420 It's also weird the Injustice Guild didn't have a Huntress parallel, given her relationship with Sportsmaster
@Will N It's as complex as some other villains. DC especially seems to have half a dozen people connected to some aliases in history. Like...even Killer Frost for instance, at least 3-4 people.
@Will N Ronnie, as in Firestorm? I can't even keep up with who's Firestorm at any given time, unless they duplicated that matrix, because I recall there's at least one or two other iterations
11:45 I also would laugh if a bus full of nuns blew up after crashing into a truck conveniently filled with Dynamite
Superhero shows had a very great tendency to be very depressing at the end of an episode and make you feel terrible. Batman TAS, Justice League, JLU, and Spider-Man TAS (1990s) are just a few examples that made me super depressed by the end of the episode and I loved it.
It showed how not every ending is good. Not every villain or person can be saved. It won't always end on a nappy note despite it being a superhero show. Man I loved those
So you love being miserable
@@MutantsInDisguise No, but it always left a more intense impact than normal endings. It made you feel something
@@Agent_3141 I see
It's more bittersweet. Like that teen titans episode where starfire gets flung forward into time. It ends merely with the possibility that depressing future doesn't happen but the moral is it's worth it in the end to try. Which is pretty realistic for a kids show to not make such a grim future for certain avoidable. It definitely made me realize how fragile friendships are. Sadly it did end up happening to most people in my life making that future true for me.
Life man, gotta love it.
Shady do be giving us more Justice League and we’re here for it.
Always here for it
Yeah especially for the Dr Destiny episode
@@srstriker6420love that episode
@@srstriker6420love that episode
@@tmntgirl4life love that episode
I really enjoy this episode not only for all the Justice Society analog characters, but the lesson that just because something isn’t real doesn’t mean the impact they had on you as person isn’t valuable, also like the whole idea that the creators of the Guild comics were having visions of their world the same story beat used when Barry Allen first met Jay Garrick and the explanation for why Barry was inspired by the Flash comics he read was Gardner Fox dreaming about Jay’s adventures and making them into comics
and here's a maybe fun fact apparently the justice guild was supposed to be the actual justice society and not just analogs with the same first name but Dc said no
@@jadenbryant9283 oh that’s a little bit of a bummer to hear maybe it’s because they wanted to use them for another project or because they knew they’d use some in Unlimited like Wild Cat, Black Canary, Atom Smasher and even the original Star Man design showed up in some background group shots
@@josmonlee13 I actually believe albeit not entirely sure was because DC did not want to writers to portray the Justicr society the way they portrayed the justice guild
I also really love the bit where they apologize to the townsfolk for destroying their world, to which one replies, "No, we did that ourselves. Now, thanks to you, we can rebuild" (I'm paraphrasing - I don't remember it exactly).
The animated JL series civilians are written with a lot of memorability and depth for a few lines. (That's a large part of why "Patriot Act" is my favorite episode.)
I’m realizing that the specific plot issue of the villains going straight back to robbing stuff is on purpose. Ray made those villains to keep the guild busy so they never find out that they’re illusory and so that he can be in the action forever, so having the villains go right back to robbing people makes perfect sense since that’s all they were made to do and nothing more
Approximately two decades later and that scene of the Justice Guild disappearing still hits me a little.
It was really awesome to see the straight laced Jon Stewart, the super responsible USMC soldier, geek out. It made this whole episode feel fun and, given the ending, so painfully heartbreaking.
Also, those references man... I love you. No homo
Love you covering any show, you don't have to be the "King of the Hill guy" or the "Superhero guy" you're the "Awesome and charismatic UA-cam commentator guy". Love all of your videos Shady, keep covering the shows/episodes you are passionate about.
I loved this episode of JL too, I've super appreciated the old DC shows in my college years.
The media that shapes us, no matter if it's comics, novels or even movies, will always hold a spot in our very soul. It's what helps us learn and grasp concepts that may never have sank in otherwise.( By the way, the " you made that up" bit made me snort laugh)
What was it South Park said at the end of that imaginationland episode.. something like, haven't luke skywalker and santa claus affected your lives more than most real people in this room?
24:04 “And that’s real enough for me”
Man, what a beautiful way to wrap up the video, I’m a newcomer to your channel but so far I’ve loved your Justice League videos
Agreed 👍
This episode isn't masterpiece
It's a super mega ultra extreme mastered masterpiece
20:30 Ray wasn't a reality warper. He had immense telepathic and telekinetic powers that basically let him coat the entire area in a full tactile illusion. Think the Holodeck from Star Trek. Except he basically made the projections of the JLA as real as possible, which is why they acted against him ultimately.
How did they NOT all starve with the land being fallow and blasted if there wasn't at least some reality warping involved?
Yes, a MAJOR component of Ray's powers is the telepathic and telekinetic abilities, but there's got to be some reality warping in there.
Strange way to say reality warping
Ray biggest mistake was to make a perfect copy of the Justice Guild because just like the originals they were willing to give their life to save others.
It's nice to see a franchise that's proud of it's quirky past instead of making fun of it or re-writing it like Disney.
Honestly modern Disney is an example of everything wrong with modern franchises.
Exactly. Heck they need to remember there are people who LIKED that Quirky past who are paying Customers.
What has Disney done to not address its quirky past? If you're talking about the MCU its been doing that quite a bit recently. The old costumes in stuff like Doctor Strange and Wanda vision, odd concepts like in Thor and Warewolf by night and She-Hulk, and the weird villains like in Moonknight and Loki. And those are just the ones I know of, I've not seen it all. I'm not really a fan of the MCU anymore, but I'd never say that was something it was lacking in or they were afraid of.
I made an English speaking exam on it.
@@thod8820 I was primarily referring to the unnecessary live action remakes of beloved classics. But if you're asking about the MCU specifically, it's whenever they try to make a self aware joke like "that's a silly name" or "why do you always do all those poses." When they do that it doesn't feel like there being self aware in a clever way and more so that they feel awkward about themself being a superhero franchise.
@@arnowisp6244 the very one’s they’re trying to pander to by remaking everything, they’re just doing a really bad job of it.
21:20 I like how even though the times have changed with how we portray heroes, there is a very important consistency in what a true hero is. And that's the sacrifice it takes to be one. Had the JL been in a Similar situation of the Justice Guild, all of them would have made the choice to die in order to protect the others and end this fake reality.
Also don't worry about Ray. Pretty sure in the show they outright say he has an aneurism when the JG turn on him and when his illusion shatters so does his brain.
I think the plot holes can be explained just because of Ray's powers. The story has to play out like his comic stories do so if Flash gets captured in a trap that under all intents he should be able to get out easily he can't escape. It's only once ray's ruse is revealed and pulls him out of the rules of his own world that the others are able to really act out of character.
I can relate so hard to GL and Shady's feelings here about comic book heroes and what they can do for people. I went through a really rough time in high school, and it's no exaggeration when I say that finding the X-Men comics then saved my life. I may not read those comics or really keep up with what movies are/aren't doing with them anymore, but I'll never forget how much I looked forward to picking up new issues, finding a safe place to read them in, finding friends who liked them as much as I did, finding more spaces I belonged in... The people and stories may have been fictional, but everything I got from them was real and I immediately know to distrust anyone who would pish-posh that.
X-Men was all about being different and still finding a place in this world. It spoke to so many back in the day.
Shady, you gotta review "For the man who has everything". It's an example of a good adaptation and a top 10 episode
Oh, that episode hurt. 😢
Plus it has Wonder Woman
I second this. I third it even!
@@98953812 especially when Batman’s dream is so simple
iirc its one of the only things that Alan Moore lets have his name on
One of the JL episodes where you legit feel sorry for the villain. His interpretation of his heroes shows how pulpy and how silver age-esque the heroes might have gotten had it not been for the war.
"We died once saving this earth, and we can do it again"
Powerful words
7:10 Diana is also an ancient greek in culture which was VERY big on hospitality and not messing with the host/guests, she was also a divinely boosted diplomat. So I think she'd be able to do a good job of at least following along and not making a fuss for the sake of ego or projection.
Seeing as how the universes were shown to be linked through the comic books being adaptations of their universe, I think Tom Turbine’s portal was already connected to the Justice League’s universe. No need to reroute the portal if it’s auto connected to the right universe.
First. I can't stop crying.
Second. This episode long ago when it first aired is why every time someone says ' its just fiction " I get mad. If something can change you. Give you a better outlook. Inspire you. Make you feel something. Then it is real to you. They don't need to be alive. They helped to shape your world.
Yes, this is one of the best justice league episodes (that's saying something, because there are so many great episodes). Whimsical and fun in a golden-era comics way in most of the runtime, and terribly dark when you discover the truth. I love it.
11:09 Oh, I didn't even think about that! I thought it was just 'cause Wally is just as much of a goofball as they are, making him feel right at home.
Great essay, man! This episode hits deep from the nostalgia factor/love letter to the Golden Age, to the nuclear horrors/post-apocalyptic feelings, to the sacrifices the Guild made. The DCAU will always stand at the forefront of superhero stories. And this episode is one of their shining gems.
10:15 It was the 50’s.
Still a good episode!
We need to remember why we loved superheroes cause currently they are dying and being replaced by things that are wearing them like cheap knockoff suits.
19:38 prior to Ray's deception being exposed, they were illusions. but when they decided to defeat Ray, the real guild came back in place of their constructs.
Your rule following anecdote reminds me of a character from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. Galad Damodred's character trait is that he unwaveringly does what is right. His half sister even says, "No matter who it hurts, and he would expect them to understand." and he is one of my favorite characters in fiction.
"You're a credit to your people, son!"
Bless his heart, he means well.
Batman made me who I am today. He taught me the importance of justice over revenge, and how to take my anger and turn it into fuel. Everything I know has roots in Batman, this fictional character raised me more than my parents ever did. And one day, I learned the most valuable lesson of all from him. Don't be like Batman. Batman is a sad man who's internalizing his truama and risking his life because, in his eyes, he holds no value unless he's Batman. He's not happy or healthy, yes he's an incredible hero, but he's not an incredible man. We have to strive to be happy. People can't keep bottling in our pain or we'll end up alone in our own sadness. Be like superman instead, a man secure in his identity and satisfied just to help, or wonder woman, a curious woman who's not afraid of who she is and exploring a new world. Hell, even Batmans sons are better role models, Dick Grayson forged his own path and learned about himself along the way. Jason Todd learned to live with his truama and reconnect with his family. Tim Drake learned how to put his pride aside and accept change. And Damien is Damien, our favorite brat.
One of my favorite things about batman is he knows he's a screwed up individual but tries his hardest to prevent people from becoming like him.
Batman raised the Robins so they wouldnt end up like him.
Grayson is literally the best of Bruce without any of the faults.
Thank you very much! I relate to these words of yours. As much as I love Batman for teaching me to use my pain for good, I just don't want to be like him, all obsessed, without love for anyone (not even himself), and without any purpose in life outside seeking revenge on criminals.
10:14 The stunned silence made me crack up ngl 😆
You are so good at explaining why these shows are so wonderful.
Btw, I only recently realized you in your profile picture is in a Nightwing shirt.
Also one of the reason s why flash was not doing his normal power stunts to escape something as simple as a block of ice and the other Justice League heroes are being so easily defeated is the fact that the entire area was in fact under a mass telepathic suggestion effect... They were literally being psychically manipulated into losing so as to continue the illusion....."because that's what superheroes do". This is also why Martian manhunter kept having those seizures since as an actual telepath he was more resistant to it than others but was probably caught off guard by the fact that it was essentially a permanent field effect as opposed to a specific mental attack.
Makes sense when you say it that way.
This episode was a tear jerker for sure. Would love more JL content! I watched all of it and the sequel show the other month. Great video!
This is a PERFECT episode!!! Using the silliness as a vehicle to pay homage to the Silver Age in a goofy yet respectful was brilliant.
I kinda headcanon that the *real* Guild came through their copies in their final moment here. Like the souls of them were caught in a limbo by Ray but the league snapped them out of it, and they choose to give up this second chance to save their world once again
Copy anything completely enough, and it'll do what the original would have. The kid made copies of heroic ideals of those people he lost. Of course they turned on him when it became clear he was the cause of the injustice. Maybe the real Guild would have hesitated before they did the right thing, but the heroic ideals wouldn't.
Love the fact the robot in the beginning looks like an Eva Unit. Classic 90s anime.
The Injustice Guild I think are based on Wizard(Sir Swami), Sportsmaster(Sportsman), Icicle(Dr. Blizzard) and Fiddler(Music Master), and Brainwave(the true villain) who were the Justice Society's foes
I loved this episode, it's easily one of my favorites too for so many of the same reasons. It's a well-crafted episode that did so much more then it had to(modern hero/retro hero crossover) and showed us what power and positive influence superhero stories should share. Also there's an adaptation of Public Enemies that brought back DCAU's Superman, Batman, and Lex voice actors. Worth a watch.
Being in an ice cream truck for 40 years. It must've been hell for the driver.
16:56 Taking notes on how you write a good mystery
Looks like now you’re the 2000s-2010s animation Guy.
NEVER STOP!
90's-early 2010's was the golden age of animation
Whenever I hear people make comments about things like comics being kids stuff, or it doesn't matter since it wasn't real, I always remember stories like this.
While yes they may not be real or the stories didn't happen, what they mean is very much real and something we should carry with us even into our old age.
It’ll be a long time before it happens, but if you ever want some more superhero media that is incredibly well-written and important, I recommend checking out Green Lantern: The Animated Series. One character has a very Zuko-esque (but still VERY unique) redemption arc you might like.
Yes! I’ve never seen anyone talk about that series so seeing Shady cover it would be awesome!
@@theabsolutechadlad5457 That series definitely left a big impression on me, it’s honestly worthy of being up in the great superhero shows like Batman TAS and Superman TAS.
yeah i didn't believe the hype at first, and I've always hated that dumb 'other colors of lanterns' crud, but holy damn that show pulled it off and then some.
spectacular spider-man would also be great for shadeyrags to check out.
@@KairuHakubi Honestly, since my dad's a huge comics fan(before they went downhill) he would tell me about the different rings and what they stand for, and it became one of my favorite aspects of the DC universe, and seeing a show cover some of those rings felt incredibly satisfying, especially the Blue Lanterns since they're my favorite
@@theabsolutechadlad5457 i have never felt so old as hearing someone say back in his childhood his dad taught him about the different color lantern corps..
We don’t know when the Justice Guild of America died, but the episode gave us some clues; the show was aired in 2002, Stewart mentioned the last Justice Guild comic before cancellation was published 40 years prior to the show. If we subtract 2002 to 40 years, we get 1962. More clues was that peace talks to descale a nuclear war deteriorated, the closest to a nuclear war was the Cuban Missiles Crisis. In the Justice Guild universe, the peace talks to descale the Cuban Missile Crisis failed and it triggered World War III, killing the Justice Guild and destroying Seaboard City.
Man I loved this arc as a kid, it always stuck around in my head afterwards.
What I love is how ray was defeated the legends are psychic constructs made from his memories so when they fought him his powers were effectively turned against him and overwhelmed him
Im so happy the guy that managed to convince me to watch king of the hill is now going over the show that ruled my childhood
Honestly would like to see the thanagarian invasion and how many things it influenced for future justice league shows as martian manhunter did the whole man screw thing long before meggan made it cool but he just had better control to never do it again as he left someone crippled permeantly.
That last message hits hard.
I wasn't really into superheroes growing up but i was into games and when i was a little kid i played a couple of brand new games for the NES called The Legend of Zelda and Metroid (yes, I'm old).
As a little kid i had a fear of being alone and i was very afraid of the world and enclosed spaces. Not in a claustrophobic way but more of a fear of mazes or being alone in a confusing place where something could jump out at me.
It's corny but Link and especially Samus showed me that I didn't have to be afraid of the dark. That the world wasn't something to fear but something to be explored.
And Samus being a woman made me so happy that she became a childhood hero for me. I even wanted to become a bounty hunter when I grew up (high school law enforcement classes made me rethink that once i saw how disturbingly graphic that path could be).
8:27 Fun fact - that explanation almost verbatim is the same given in the first DC comic book establishing their multiverse in Flash #123, "Flash of Two Worlds" to explain the similar premise of how Barry Allen was inspired to become the Flash on his Earth having grown up reading comics starring the original Flash, Jay Garrick.
I really respect how earnest and introspective you are in these superhero videos. Really refreshing.