Im a huge gw plastic fan and i think this is the 1st game were just getting the rules and cards and buying a 3d printer is the go. Since its already a small scale I feel like u wont see the difference and paying the prices there asking just seems crazy.
3d printing has come such a long way and the sculpts is what determines any quality concerns. I printed a entire 30k Dark Angels army and you couldn't tell even before I painted them
If theres one thing ive learned over the years its immediately going all in on a new system or game is often a really daft idea. As you said in the video, take yiur time, one box at a time
I'm not someone who buys Games Workshop stuff. I am interested in this purely because I had the Space Marine game when I was a kid. Price wise, before the prices were revealed, I was looking at Flames of War to get some sort of idea of the prices for this game. Flames of War is a WW2 15mm game with lots of factions and periods of the war; the models are very detailed and very good quality. They price 15mm tanks (including large Tiger tanks) at £8.00 each in their unit boxes. You can also buy a starter army which you can play with for circa £100.00. I was expecting pricing for this game to work out 55-66% of the price for Flames of War, but it seems that it is going to be a lot more expensive to build up a decent force. Maybe they should have stuck with the smaller scale to make the game more affordable? Presumably they used 8mm to attract Titanicus players...
Oh yes! Flames of War is an excellent comparison. Although we should keep in mind that the army size is an abstract idea, so we probably should be comparing number of little men or something to get a decent idea. I do hope the game plays well at the smaller point values. In relation to the scale. The old Epic had scale problems that they needed to resolve; tanks and men were at different scales, titans were way to small for their lore. I'm reasonably sure the decision to make Titanicus the scale it is was taken with the overall Epic in mind rather than just Titanicus. I doubt Titanicus players has enough numbers to be a target audience worth going after :P
Using the same scale as AI and AT wasn't so much to attract those players but it also makes it cheaper to invest for GW as they've already got the molds for those vehicles from the other games and they can maximise their profit from them.
Honestly, I like this as a means to create my own rule set for bigger engagements with every base representing more than the number of troops represented.
We've spent more on models before XD For some I think the concern is more how little plastic you get for your buck. For me what surprised me was the amount of detachments and hence boxes end up making a full army. I'm still looking forward to it, but I'm definitely going to pace myself.
I had a quick look at the Horus Heresy box which is about 50% more expensive but looks like it has the same number of marines despite the scale difference XD I'm not too worried about the actual plastic volume to be honest. I'm just hoping they've put together a good game. If they've over-estimated the price point then there are alternatives with 3d prints and at that scale. Right now I' think they've judged it well. It might be a steep markup but as you can see from other comments people are willing to pay.
I agree it's not a deal. Maybe at a 150.00 US. The models are super tiny. This may die quick. I dont feell like you can compare the value between scales. Different games Different point values to make a "Full Army". I'm disappointed.. I play Titanicus and Battlefleet Gothic Was hoping it would have value.
I think the real question is will this game actually survive in support. Once they get through their 1 to 2 year initial road map is it then going to phase out. Personally have piles of under utilized epic stiff. I did not go in for the scale change as it is actually unproductive from a game play sense. While 40k armies might run about the same cost i think the size of the actual models does not warrent it for this. Add to the fact that thr main draw of 40k is that you can find games which will not be as easy here after investing 600+ dollars.
In relation to the support, one thing to keep in mind is someone in GW has been planning this for a while. We know from interviews with James M Hewitt that the overall epic line was considered when they were putting together Titanicus pre-2018. As we've seen with Necromunda, I think one of the most important things for a game line is having the right GW staff pushing the line. I've no idea who that would be for LI right now, but we know Epic was popularly internally with the old crew.
I thought this was really expensive. I am a bit of a negative Nancy for GW. HOWEVER, this week I came upon quite an unwelcome discovery. I was looking at upcoming games like Ravaged Star and Grave trigger and I realised just how expensive non GW gaming is becoming. I am going to be investing in this game. I will get a starter and then 4/5 expansions to start. You don't need to buy it all in the first month. Spread it out over 6 months
not sure if anyones commented this here yet, gw confirmed that the photo has an error in it, there are no kratos tanks in the starter set, its even worse than it looks. (they confirmed in an instagram comment)
Havnt played wh in years. Got too expensive and took too much space and painting effort. Than i saw this and though it would be cool. Seemed affordable until you start looking into it. The expansions to the starter are what looks painfully expensive. $50 for 2 baneblades or 10 transports. The aeronautica and titanicus model conversion is great but the models are still super expensive. Also it being 30k is disappointing as its basically just spacemarines and armies will be very similar. All in all you are looking at starter and 5-6 add ons. Big investment for a series with an unknown future. I think this will be super popular, i hope gw supports it with more additions and many more factons
I started with the first epic box set 55$ and all the add ons cost me 150$ for orcs eldar chaos imperial guard 200$ is way to much it will end up like warmaster gone in a year
I suspect this will be more like Titanicus where the initial starter was $290 (in 2018) which immediately prices the majority of people out. But there still was enough interest to keep it going. I definitely think Legions has that interest and more, and while the pricing for a full army is going to be spicey if you only collected this and just picked up an extra $50 box each month, then that would be some good hobby!
We think in terms of "how much plastic am I getting." GW does not, as the plastic is probably the cheapest part for GW. GW thinks in terms of the design, development, boxing, shipping, advertising, molds, time to print, labor, reconfiguring the facility etc. and then pricing in which they can maintain GWs typically overpriced 40i% operating margin (which is different then there margin in manufacturing costs - which is in the 70% range). Is Legions Imperialis expensive - like most of GWs range - yep. Does the consumer get less "plastic" - sure but comparitive boxes are often $10s cheaper then say 40k or AoS (so there's the pricce of your plastics). Do I think GW should go a bit cheaper to encourage more people to jump into a game system which doesn't have the built-in demand like 40k (to grow interest) - absolutely. Do I want lower prices as a consumer - yep. Didn't happen, and GW is happy to keep it a specialized game in which the hardore - deep pockets will buy-in and everyone else will go "no thanks."
@@EpyonCF thank you I'm a carer so I'm on. A very limited budget I could probably get the box to start with, and would want to field as an army so I could play larger games, getting to 3000 is not a priority, but it looks amazing
As someone who recently got into Warcry after watching your videos after playing boardgames for 7 years. I was already wincing at the cost of that. The price of this content put me on my arse! It's absolutely wild to me that this pricing is taken as good value. It doesn't even come with a set of cards, Jesus Christ. 😅 I dread to think what the cost would be of my miniature centric board games would be if GW published them.
I will say, I have seen some better options on how to get to 3k than copying the White Dwarf. If you start using all the core box then it's only another 4 or so boxes to make it to the 3k. So double the price and you've started. Not totally crazy. But yeah, this is very much GW 'value'. It's more like the 40k and AoS full wargame pricings than the skirmish games I'm a little more used to. I mean, I'm still pretty sure I'll be getting it, so more fool me XD
@Jezza_One on this point, they had titanicus and aeronautica come out before this and I think they used those as test Ned's and to not have to invest as much into the game as they could just pull stuff from those older games as it was all the same scale. I wish legions was 40k so we get xenos but maybe one day
Abandoned the GW roundabout quite a while ago and this isn’t going to tempt me. Your repeated statement of this being ‘a really good deal’ genuinely had me laughing out loud! How can it be a ‘really good deal’ when you have to buy FOUR boxes - £480! - to get a normal size game?
😆 In my defence, I did qualify with 'by GW standards'. It's like getting a Diamond ring at half price, at the end of the day it's still just a dumb rock but it means something to someone.
This isn't that fair of a video. The starter sets for HH, 40k, AoS are similarly of low value for 3000/2000/2000 point games. And considering this is a mass combat game, that is what we should be comparing to. All three are around $400-$800 costs for recommended size of armies. This is a long term investment, but at least there's not 30 different factions to collect :P. Also, you get bonus armies for TWO extra games!
You say only two, lets see how many Astartes Legions we have in 6 months 😂 You're right that the comparison should be with AoS and 40k but at first look this seemed more like a Titanicus to me, I was very wrong.
@@optimalgamestateonce again, to be fair - AT Starter box is what, around 1200 points? GW suggests the regular size of a full size game (Epic Clash) to be 1750-2500. So... you need two starter boxes for one force? And yes, AT functions nicely with 1250 points per side, and I hope so will Legions :)
@@EpyonCF True! I went for the double Titanicus box myself and I'm super happy with it as two forces even though it's a lot less than the full size game. Fingers crossed we end up with something similar for LI. Next Saturday we should see the content creator reveals so fingers crossed we can work out a purchasing plan.
you're part of the reason so many people cannot get into the hobby. Your excuses for a disgusting company (GW) are not helping anyone: you're encouraging less players to enter the hobby. Most people are already priced out of the game. You are a MASSIVE PROBLEM for people who are trying to get more people into the Warhammer but find more and more people can't afford it: they can afford to get into other miniature games though, and DO. Firstly you should be comparing model count not points though using points in useful. But even with points Leviathan has about 1,440 worth of combined points (after throwing out £30 worth of models to bring it down to £120 seeing as Leviathan was £150). Ignoring that these are 2 factions, you get 560 points off the 2000 point game. Call it a 1/4 whereas with Legions Imperialis it's potentially HALF off that 3000 advised game size. Secondly, this is Epic scale, not 28mm: the game should be and COULD HAVE BEEN entirely in the box. The entire point of Epic is to buy an entire army in a box: yet they're not doing that. You buy 28mm miniatures for the models and collecting; you buy epic FOR THE GAME ITSELF. Thirdly, you should be comparing it to other EPIC scale wargames such as Warlord's Epic ranges which give you insanely more models for the price. Just go to Warlord's website and you'll see them offering.. I can't even count because they're SO MANY models compared to the tiny offerings GW are offering. If you compare plastic for plastic (not sprues, that's a red herring) you can maybe 17-24 miniatures in this £120 box game plus two small titans. Now HH's latest marines, you get 20 28mm Marines + options for £45. So stop pretending this is OK. It's not.
The delay for the release meant a lot of printers went BRRR while we were waiting. Alas, I don't have room for a 3d printer and setup so it'll be easier for me to pick up GW product instead.
Hopefully I can get an entire solar auxillia army out of a single copy of risk
😂
Im a huge gw plastic fan and i think this is the 1st game were just getting the rules and cards and buying a 3d printer is the go. Since its already a small scale I feel like u wont see the difference and paying the prices there asking just seems crazy.
3d printing has come such a long way and the sculpts is what determines any quality concerns.
I printed a entire 30k Dark Angels army and you couldn't tell even before I painted them
you will see the diference
an increase in quality on the infantry if a company gets into it like a few has get into warmaster
If theres one thing ive learned over the years its immediately going all in on a new system or game is often a really daft idea. As you said in the video, take yiur time, one box at a time
I'm not someone who buys Games Workshop stuff.
I am interested in this purely because I had the Space Marine game when I was a kid.
Price wise, before the prices were revealed, I was looking at Flames of War to get some sort of idea of the prices for this game.
Flames of War is a WW2 15mm game with lots of factions and periods of the war; the models are very detailed and very good quality.
They price 15mm tanks (including large Tiger tanks) at £8.00 each in their unit boxes.
You can also buy a starter army which you can play with for circa £100.00.
I was expecting pricing for this game to work out 55-66% of the price for Flames of War, but it seems that it is going to be a lot more expensive to build up a decent force.
Maybe they should have stuck with the smaller scale to make the game more affordable?
Presumably they used 8mm to attract Titanicus players...
Oh yes! Flames of War is an excellent comparison. Although we should keep in mind that the army size is an abstract idea, so we probably should be comparing number of little men or something to get a decent idea. I do hope the game plays well at the smaller point values.
In relation to the scale. The old Epic had scale problems that they needed to resolve; tanks and men were at different scales, titans were way to small for their lore. I'm reasonably sure the decision to make Titanicus the scale it is was taken with the overall Epic in mind rather than just Titanicus. I doubt Titanicus players has enough numbers to be a target audience worth going after :P
Using the same scale as AI and AT wasn't so much to attract those players but it also makes it cheaper to invest for GW as they've already got the molds for those vehicles from the other games and they can maximise their profit from them.
Honestly, I like this as a means to create my own rule set for bigger engagements with every base representing more than the number of troops represented.
50 bucks for a single model??? Jesus this is gonna be an expensive game
We've spent more on models before XD For some I think the concern is more how little plastic you get for your buck. For me what surprised me was the amount of detachments and hence boxes end up making a full army. I'm still looking forward to it, but I'm definitely going to pace myself.
If you compute how much plastic 28mms worth are in that box set it's between 17-24 miniatures + the two titans.
It's insane and vile.
I had a quick look at the Horus Heresy box which is about 50% more expensive but looks like it has the same number of marines despite the scale difference XD
I'm not too worried about the actual plastic volume to be honest. I'm just hoping they've put together a good game. If they've over-estimated the price point then there are alternatives with 3d prints and at that scale. Right now I' think they've judged it well. It might be a steep markup but as you can see from other comments people are willing to pay.
I agree it's not a deal. Maybe at a 150.00 US. The models are super tiny. This may die quick.
I dont feell like you can compare the value between scales. Different games Different point values to make a "Full Army". I'm disappointed.. I play Titanicus and Battlefleet Gothic
Was hoping it would have value.
I think the real question is will this game actually survive in support. Once they get through their 1 to 2 year initial road map is it then going to phase out. Personally have piles of under utilized epic stiff. I did not go in for the scale change as it is actually unproductive from a game play sense. While 40k armies might run about the same cost i think the size of the actual models does not warrent it for this. Add to the fact that thr main draw of 40k is that you can find games which will not be as easy here after investing 600+ dollars.
In relation to the support, one thing to keep in mind is someone in GW has been planning this for a while. We know from interviews with James M Hewitt that the overall epic line was considered when they were putting together Titanicus pre-2018. As we've seen with Necromunda, I think one of the most important things for a game line is having the right GW staff pushing the line. I've no idea who that would be for LI right now, but we know Epic was popularly internally with the old crew.
Amazon offers this but it will not be delivered until December 7? Local stores know NOTHING ABOUT IT!
The amazon offers are no doubt third party stores selling on Amazon. GW release on Dec 2 then some time for the store to pack and you get the Dec7.
I thought this was really expensive. I am a bit of a negative Nancy for GW. HOWEVER, this week I came upon quite an unwelcome discovery. I was looking at upcoming games like Ravaged Star and Grave trigger and I realised just how expensive non GW gaming is becoming.
I am going to be investing in this game. I will get a starter and then 4/5 expansions to start. You don't need to buy it all in the first month. Spread it out over 6 months
not sure if anyones commented this here yet, gw confirmed that the photo has an error in it, there are no kratos tanks in the starter set, its even worse than it looks. (they confirmed in an instagram comment)
Havnt played wh in years. Got too expensive and took too much space and painting effort. Than i saw this and though it would be cool. Seemed affordable until you start looking into it. The expansions to the starter are what looks painfully expensive. $50 for 2 baneblades or 10 transports. The aeronautica and titanicus model conversion is great but the models are still super expensive. Also it being 30k is disappointing as its basically just spacemarines and armies will be very similar. All in all you are looking at starter and 5-6 add ons. Big investment for a series with an unknown future. I think this will be super popular, i hope gw supports it with more additions and many more factons
I started with the first epic box set 55$ and all the add ons cost me 150$ for orcs eldar chaos imperial guard 200$ is way to much it will end up like warmaster gone in a year
I suspect this will be more like Titanicus where the initial starter was $290 (in 2018) which immediately prices the majority of people out. But there still was enough interest to keep it going. I definitely think Legions has that interest and more, and while the pricing for a full army is going to be spicey if you only collected this and just picked up an extra $50 box each month, then that would be some good hobby!
Printer goes Brrrrrrr
I feel the tank squadrons in this box are not full stand alone box sizes. Based on the ones being released like 10 rhinos
From what I can tell the starter box has half the number of tanks you would get if you bought the box of tanks instead.
I feel that could be accurate, or all what you see would be a box, predators & sicaran in a box
We think in terms of "how much plastic am I getting." GW does not, as the plastic is probably the cheapest part for GW. GW thinks in terms of the design, development, boxing, shipping, advertising, molds, time to print, labor, reconfiguring the facility etc. and then pricing in which they can maintain GWs typically overpriced 40i% operating margin (which is different then there margin in manufacturing costs - which is in the 70% range).
Is Legions Imperialis expensive - like most of GWs range - yep. Does the consumer get less "plastic" - sure but comparitive boxes are often $10s cheaper then say 40k or AoS (so there's the pricce of your plastics). Do I think GW should go a bit cheaper to encourage more people to jump into a game system which doesn't have the built-in demand like 40k (to grow interest) - absolutely. Do I want lower prices as a consumer - yep. Didn't happen, and GW is happy to keep it a specialized game in which the hardore - deep pockets will buy-in and everyone else will go "no thanks."
Could you feild it as single army
Say an iron warriors army
@@dominicchammas549 yes, as allied detachments. GW also confirmed there will be some rules to break the fact that this goes over the limit of allies.
@@EpyonCF thank you I'm a carer so I'm on. A very limited budget I could probably get the box to start with, and would want to field as an army so I could play larger games, getting to 3000 is not a priority, but it looks amazing
I suspect there will be starter lists that will let you run the box contents as a special force. We'll find out for sure on Saturday!
As someone who recently got into Warcry after watching your videos after playing boardgames for 7 years. I was already wincing at the cost of that.
The price of this content put me on my arse! It's absolutely wild to me that this pricing is taken as good value. It doesn't even come with a set of cards, Jesus Christ. 😅
I dread to think what the cost would be of my miniature centric board games would be if GW published them.
I will say, I have seen some better options on how to get to 3k than copying the White Dwarf. If you start using all the core box then it's only another 4 or so boxes to make it to the 3k. So double the price and you've started. Not totally crazy.
But yeah, this is very much GW 'value'. It's more like the 40k and AoS full wargame pricings than the skirmish games I'm a little more used to. I mean, I'm still pretty sure I'll be getting it, so more fool me XD
They should have stuck with 6mm and 40k but they didnt want people using their old stuff.
@Jezza_One on this point, they had titanicus and aeronautica come out before this and I think they used those as test Ned's and to not have to invest as much into the game as they could just pull stuff from those older games as it was all the same scale. I wish legions was 40k so we get xenos but maybe one day
Abandoned the GW roundabout quite a while ago and this isn’t going to tempt me. Your repeated statement of this being ‘a really good deal’ genuinely had me laughing out loud! How can it be a ‘really good deal’ when you have to buy FOUR boxes - £480! - to get a normal size game?
😆 In my defence, I did qualify with 'by GW standards'. It's like getting a Diamond ring at half price, at the end of the day it's still just a dumb rock but it means something to someone.
This isn't that fair of a video. The starter sets for HH, 40k, AoS are similarly of low value for 3000/2000/2000 point games. And considering this is a mass combat game, that is what we should be comparing to. All three are around $400-$800 costs for recommended size of armies. This is a long term investment, but at least there's not 30 different factions to collect :P. Also, you get bonus armies for TWO extra games!
You say only two, lets see how many Astartes Legions we have in 6 months 😂 You're right that the comparison should be with AoS and 40k but at first look this seemed more like a Titanicus to me, I was very wrong.
@@optimalgamestateonce again, to be fair - AT Starter box is what, around 1200 points? GW suggests the regular size of a full size game (Epic Clash) to be 1750-2500. So... you need two starter boxes for one force? And yes, AT functions nicely with 1250 points per side, and I hope so will Legions :)
@@EpyonCF True! I went for the double Titanicus box myself and I'm super happy with it as two forces even though it's a lot less than the full size game. Fingers crossed we end up with something similar for LI. Next Saturday we should see the content creator reveals so fingers crossed we can work out a purchasing plan.
you're part of the reason so many people cannot get into the hobby. Your excuses for a disgusting company (GW) are not helping anyone: you're encouraging less players to enter the hobby. Most people are already priced out of the game. You are a MASSIVE PROBLEM for people who are trying to get more people into the Warhammer but find more and more people can't afford it: they can afford to get into other miniature games though, and DO.
Firstly you should be comparing model count not points though using points in useful. But even with points Leviathan has about 1,440 worth of combined points (after throwing out £30 worth of models to bring it down to £120 seeing as Leviathan was £150). Ignoring that these are 2 factions, you get 560 points off the 2000 point game. Call it a 1/4 whereas with Legions Imperialis it's potentially HALF off that 3000 advised game size.
Secondly, this is Epic scale, not 28mm: the game should be and COULD HAVE BEEN entirely in the box. The entire point of Epic is to buy an entire army in a box: yet they're not doing that. You buy 28mm miniatures for the models and collecting; you buy epic FOR THE GAME ITSELF.
Thirdly, you should be comparing it to other EPIC scale wargames such as Warlord's Epic ranges which give you insanely more models for the price. Just go to Warlord's website and you'll see them offering.. I can't even count because they're SO MANY models compared to the tiny offerings GW are offering.
If you compare plastic for plastic (not sprues, that's a red herring) you can maybe 17-24 miniatures in this £120 box game plus two small titans.
Now HH's latest marines, you get 20 28mm Marines + options for £45. So stop pretending this is OK. It's not.
wtf $200 I thought it was 150 USD lmfao what a joke I can get a printer resin wash and cure and alcohol for that price looooool
The delay for the release meant a lot of printers went BRRR while we were waiting. Alas, I don't have room for a 3d printer and setup so it'll be easier for me to pick up GW product instead.