just a quick reminder that everything said in this video is *my* interpretation of sonic's character, i'm primarily just providing my side of the argument and perspective. if your interpretation of sonic is different, or you like a version of sonic i don't, that's totally cool! i've gotten a few kinda hurtful comments (its a vocal minority, for the most part the support has been overwhelming) so i just wanna remind everyone to be respectful. we're talking about a cartoon blue hedgehog here. also, i should've gone in a bit more detail about sa1 sonic being a natural evolution of the japanese manuals, it's a bit difficult to prove with Sonic alone considering his old character bios aren't in-depth and the times he does talk are minimal (which supports his actions speaking louder than words but still) but you can deduce they were paying attention to that stuff a lot more when you consider other characters, a lot of details of Tails' character came straight from the manuals for example, and later down the line there was an episode of Sonic X that i think clearly took some inspiration from Amy's interest in tarot cards and fortune telling and the sort. also there's some good stuff for sonic's character in movie 3 but i refrained from mentioning it for spoiler reasons (also i wrote the script before movie 3 came out and forgot when i was editing. so oops.)
Sonic indeed is the way he should in sonic x This isnt your interpretation its literally the lore accurate depiction of sonic We need more japanese media and writers Ian flynn cooked in frontiers tho he made sonic more actions over words and thats who he is Now all we need is to have sonic sleep on tails roof and we have true sonic back
Your thoughts on frontiers sonic is exactly my thoughts too, he is way more accurate to who Sonic was before colors but they don’t just IGNORE his characterization in the 2010s and give a little mix of the 2 which I think works perfectly, it’s like what they did with tails and his arc in frontiers acknowledge the characterization flaws and refine and fix them. frontiers Sonic and Ian’s writing works really well IMO and amazing job on this video!
I definitely think them bringing in Ian Flynn helped a lot, he has nearly 20 years of experience writing the character. I'm sure that his help with Frontiers did help a lot with that!
Imo they just need to bring unleashed/black knight sonic thats my favorite and maybe I'm biased but thats what I think of when I think of his personality but I do agree with what your saying
i think movie sonic being the way he is is just an artifact of the time, honestly. i don't mind him inherently but you can really tell he was initially written at a time when the series itself was just deemed as a relic of its time and kind of a massive joke. a shame they left out the "I took nine million steps today!" line from the first movie though. i love that so much. also i know you didn't discuss the DiC cartoons too in-depth but i adore how Sonic in Adventures refers to the viewers as his "pals". i think that helps make him my favorite of the three versions of the guy that they churned out.
4:50 As a matter of fact, Sonic makes a total of 2 jokes IN THE WHOLE GAME. In later titles, also written by Shiro Maekawa, Sonic barely makes any jokes, yet a lot of people think he does and compare Sonic to someone like spider-man. Sonic is just a chill guy (not intended) and speaks with actions not with his mouth.
@DrMecha Classic Sonic does talk. There are literally lines that Sonic says that we're put in the manuals. They even gave him a voice in Sonic CD, and Sonic has a voice in the OVA too. They didn't want Sonic to be a quiet character. They just couldn't give him a voice because of the hardware limitations at the time. He just spoke whenever he needed to. That is true for the 2000s games. He didn't run his mouth a lot, he just says things like "ok" "sure thing" "pretty cool" "let's go then" or things that actually add to the conversation.
@@Nickika I was more or less refering to Generations. Of course he speaks in the japan during the 90s, especially with SEGASonic Arcade games. Though you're right that Generations more or less represent the limitation of the OG MegaDrive.
@@lighttium thankfully they reduced that to an extent post issue 50 although aside from his speeches i think the reason why normally like in regular times he talks abit more is because...they are in a comic format and characters need to talk or some form of conversations here and there because comics aren't as effective as other medias like movies,shows and games but they seriously needed to tone down that monoluging and speeches.
Movie 3 Sonic opting to not side with the GUN and figure out the shadow conflict himself (alongside Tails/Knuckles) after the Chao Garden scene felt VERY Sonicy. I was so happy to see Sonic thinking for himself instead of blindly siding with GUN he's still not even close to being the same character (like the whole scene of wanting revenge on shadow for critically injuring Tom). however, im of the belief he's "growing into" the sonic we know and love, esp with movie 3 showing that sonic is going to take Tom's advice of following his heart in the future (which is what game sonic is all about). I know he's currently not Sonic, but he's trying his best and I can't help but love movie sonic for doing that
I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THAT ACTUALLY THAT PART *DID* STRIKE ME AS VERY SONIC-LIKE i probably would've mentioned that if i didnt write the script before the movie came out.
funny thing there was a part of the script at one point where i sorta predicted what might happen bc originally i was gonna upload this before movie 3 came out and i pretty much guessed sonic was gonna turn against GUN once he found out more of what was going on and i was like "that'd be cool and feel sonic-y" but somehow when that Literally Happened i forgot to put it in the damn script
An interesting note on Movie Sonic's characterisation is that even if they wanted to make him more "accurate", they most likely couldn't because Sonic is a relatively static character. Big films in general tend to avoid static main characters, as they want their main character to always go on an arc. A good example is when Dreamworks helped make Wallace & Gromit: Curse of the Were-Rabbit, they were really confused that no character learns a lesson or grows, and they wanted to change the characters to fit that mold. This would necessitate giving Sonic a lot of flaws that he can learn from for an entire franchise, and that's what movie Sonic is. I love the W&G films, so I do think films with Sonic as a static character could work and be amazing, but it just doesn't seem like something that Hollywood would want to try.
Except he seems to be statically immature and childish in all three films rather than looking more serious, clever and cooler. These flaws don't seem to be progressing anywhere to the Sonic we know and love.
1:20 To add to this, allegedly, it was encouraged across regions to make their own changes and additions to their "Sonic Bible" to better market to said region. It's why even say Fleetway was so different to Archie even though they share similar ideas.
@@MrBee8000 fleetway is actually consistent with the general idea of Sonic, Sonic was supposed to be this cocky confident guy who didnt follow the rules and fleetway follows that to a T The problem, it's the british interpretation of what a cocky overconfident person is so you can see where fleetway Sonic came from
@carso1500 That's why I said allegedly. I forgot the exact details but that was effectively what was said. One of the things that came up was the American and UK variants of the "Sonic Bible" were pretty much the same thing. They mostly differed because they were altered by said regions, with the UK sticking more to it while the US and Archie went and mostly scrapped it in favor of making their own original stuff. It's probably more complicated but that's my understanding of it :/
@@MrBee8000you are 100% right On the early days sega allowed each region to make with the franchise whatever they liked becsuse they wanted Sonic to feel like a homegrown product not an import product, so they allowed esch region to interpret it whoever they wanted within some guidelines and that is how all the different versions of the character were born After sonic adventure came out sega has been trying to unify the entire franchise but it took them a while and even after all other divergent versions of the character were eliminated is not like they completely ignore everything that was writen for those canons, I mean the main writer of she archie comics is now the main writer for the games
I just want to add to this that there is one singular moment in Colors where Sonic does act like himself. Right before the final boss, without saying a single word, Sonic pushes Tails into the escape elevator and activates it despite Tails' protest in order to get his friend safely back to Earth since Sonic knows that after this fight with Eggman that the interstellar amusement park is going to come down around him and doesn't want to risk them both not being able to make it out.
“Yes Japanese Sonic X is my favorite version of Sonic’s character, how did you know?” SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT. Not even bringing up X, Jun’ichi’s Sonic as a whole is almost perfectly 1-1 in every iteration the dude voiced the rat in (shows included like with X and Prime) for the last 26 years because the JP Localization of later games rewrite some dialogue that better match how he was written prior to Free Riders due to the games being written in the US first 2010s onwards opposed to SA1-SATBK. Finding someone who actually knows the JP version of Sonic is like finding a 4 leaf clover. Edit: Helps that Jun’ichi is THE ACTUAL GOAT. People barely bring him up when it comes to Sonic voices (understandable given he’s a Japanese man voicing a Japanese Rat who occasionally speaks fluent English on occasion), but he imo IS Sonic. He’s voiced him way longer than anyone, has a perfect range for flip flopping between cocky, and sincere, (and in some instances full on DBZ yelling like SATSR, X, and Frontiers) as well as the fact he’s given the scripts that better fit the character (and in the case of 1998-2009; barring Rivals 1/2, ARE the scripts for the character).
I thought playing the games with japanese voices was more common. In Europe it tends to be common due to animes' success, which Sonic was kinda like that at the time in terms of presentation and writing. When I played the games, I always switched the voices to japanese at any given time and I even watched Sonic X with fansubs before it aired in Italy with that abysmal 4kids' adaptation. Yeah, I was really that hyped about Sonic to push myself through that.
@@StellaFangX I used to play Sonic in English (4kids era). But with games like Generations, I switched it in Japanese because of the awful tone change in reception to the fanchise reception in the west and Sega's response. But with newer more serious and story focused stuff like Frontiers and Shadow Gens with Ian Flynn, and the VA's actually recieveing voice direction, I now put it back in English.
yeah it's nice to see people who appreciate X Sonic's characterisation. Sure, the story in Sonic X sucks in some places but the characterisation (besides Amy, she can be childish sometimes but not just straight up blind and helpless without Sonic) is something they succeeded in. The 2010s had more teamwork (??) which is good but you gotta remember that Sonic is perfectly capable of doing things himself. ok idk what the point im trying to make is lmao Whenever I watch playthroughs of games, I repeatedly think "no way this is sonic bruh" everytime he utters a word which is really funny honestly but ok
@@worldtravels7187 What makes you say they didn’t succeed with Amy’s characterization? She seemed like her game counterpart to me-somewhat childish but also steps in to do the right thing. She took care of/protected the human kids when they needed someone to.
@zigzagintrusion I like some aspects of her character but all she does is follow Sonic around for most of the time she's on screen. Even episodes centering around her tied back to Sonic in some way (e.g, that beach episode, her date with Sam Speed). Don't get me wrong, I have nothing wrong with Sonamy, it's one of my favourite ships, actually, but making the relationship unbalanced (Sonic clearly has affection for Amy, shown in the last episode of Season 2 but not enough for it to be a healthy relationship) isn't fun to watch. A reason why I like Modern Amy is because she bounces off of Sonic so well (I'm aware that the Sonic I'm talking about in question isn't the same variant but my point is still valid) - she's just extremely sassy and I love her for that. Of course, you're entitled to have your own opinion but I just didn't like her portrayal that much in Sonic X
Movie Sonic usually gets the "he is a child" and or "this is supposed to be pre heroic sonic" who grows into the game hero. LIke he is inexperienced and childish.
Well… yeah, that’s exactly who they established his character to be in that continuity. He has a pretty drastically different background and upbringing compared to his mainline canon counterpart, so it makes sense why his particular quirks and personality don’t align with it.
Three movies in, and it doesn't seem like he's matured at all. So that "he's a child learning angle" just seems like a horrible excuse. Plus, Sonic in games as early in the first game is 13-15. He was still a teen child.
@@UnifiedEntity Again… different upbringing. From what very little know of Sonic in the games, it’s very likely he wasn’t raised by any parents or parental figures (given the fact that he’s apparently homeless). That kind of lifestyle likely forced him to become more self-reliant and self-assured compared to his movie counterpart, who had to keep himself socially isolated following Longclaw’s death in order to keep his powers a secret.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 Then if anything, having lost a parent would make someone more vigilant. But movie Sonic is not. He's very immature all things considered. If this was an animated series on Netflix sure, but this is apparently a massive hit with eyes on Sonic now. This can't be the thing that defines Sonic
I don't know why, but Sonic's specific line in Sonic 3 where he asks Shadow, "Ready to recycle some tin cans?!" was the most in-character he was in the entire film to me. That whole scene gave me chills.
I personally hate how inconsistent Sonic is written. Sometimes: He's annoying Never shuts up Constant punching bag or complaining Immature Insensitive A jerk to others Constant quips Rushes without thinking Egotistical/conceded Sonic is suppose to be COOL Everyone has their own perspective on how Sonic should be, but he was suppose to appeal as a different mascot than the typical characters, one who looked cool and was cool. People and the internet love to hate on Sonic for everything and whenever they feel he isn't COOL. Being Cool isn't something you can force, it has be natural, but most importantly it is convey through ACTIONS. The Perfect Sonic has -a design that conveys Cool. -a voice that is clear, beautiful, impactful (as if their voice was a beautiful instrument that could sing and reach everyone) -a mind that is selfless, free, adventurous, kind, sensitive, empathetic, proud, assertive, leader, confidence, optimistic, positive, smart, strong-willed, brave, friendly, inspiring, righteous He can be funny He can be angry He can be upset But his personality should stay true to being a Good soul. Who's actions defines him as a HERO. I LOVE SONIC THE HEDGEHOG I just wish he was represented accurately to how he really is. Rather than appeal to a audience or be written by people who don't understand or love Sonic.
Boom is an exception since that's obviously not taking itself seriously but then when I see anything of Modern Sonic I just want him to shut up lmao Modern Sonic isn't all bad though. Sometimes, his character works really well (like Sonic Frontiers) and I wouldn't mind if they stay faithful to 2000s Sonic or not but I just want more people to appreciate that type of Sonic instead honestly
You know…they absolutely just turned him into male Rainbow Dash in the 2010’s. Sonic doesn’t need validation, doesn’t stop for anything, and lacks so much of an ego… Guess who does? It kinda makes sense when you think about it, she is basically the closest analog at the time.
As of sonic 3 (SPOILERS MAYBE) i think sonics arc of learning to be more of a team member and hero is in full force. He’s not going to be like game sonic or x sonic or ova, because he isn’t. He is his own character and actually a child rn, and we are seeing a kid grow up and learn from his mistakes. For example the carjacking going wrong in movie 2 proves like oh wait he’s got powers but isn’t right there yet. He has anger but is strong enough to stop himself in movie 3, as well as going off on his own, learning to be a team member. Theres problems with the character sure, but its his evolution and i really like that we don’t just get fully competent and mature sonic right away. We have to watch his lessons become reality and how he reacts to it. Movie sonic feels reactionary because he is, he sees something he deems wrong and without a hesitation goes to help how he thinks he should just like other sonic adaptations
Funny thing. Sonic's arc in the 3rd movie is making the same mistake 3 times - running off without his friends and then saying he's sorry. After being rescued 3 times in a row by either Tails or Knuckles all he did was apologize a bit harder. That's some BoJack Horseman level of toxic patterns honestly.
honestly all i need from sonic as a character is to keep the original attitude while having his experience shown from his decisions not from how he act. Like how frontiers sonic decide to not lose cool infront his friends from corruption even if it hurts him through out 4 islands while still giving comfort and hope for his friends to be saved.
He did lose his cool a few times in frontiers what are you talking about? Well... atleast towards amy particular the moment he sees amy he get all somber amd sad and lose his cool and confidence in that moment until! He get her out and all confident again he's a mixed bag in Kronos island. At one point you even see him opening up to amy too but i suppose this develop their relationship aswell after years of cat-mouse dynamic chase.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xto be fair sonic doesn't even know amy can see through that thing but yeah the only time sonic lose his cool is when he assumed no one seeing and the rhea island climax. my fav part about amy arc, shes always help others but never tried to look after herself first before the others despite acknowledging she also a victim until sonic points it out he worried about her too. She needs to love herself first to be able to share it. Idk if its unintentional but i love that little development sonic gave to amy. There is so many small moments that speaks louder in frontiers that i feel like overlooked cuz paying more attention about what they should've done rather than what they trying to do by its own merit.
@@mio3199 i really like sonic and amy's relationship in frontiers it's wholesome they really acted like a married couple or boyfriend and girlfriend (pun intended). It's like sonic telling how much he care about his friends while showing it in action aswell that's very good if you ask me proving ian flynn can write sonic just fine..if he stop making sonic yap alot in IDW!! Like Jesus Christ he's really wordy and it peaks at issue 50. Like ian is really weird like in IDW he writes sonic talking alot (although that's not the only problem) and then you go to frontiers and his writing for sonic there the difference in quality is day and night!! He's less talkative etc...idk if ian took the criticism about sonic talking alot and corrected this criticism because if that's the case it makes sense but still i think there's still alot more room for improvement and luckily his characterization did improved quite abit post issue 50.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xprob cuz sega and sonic team involved in writing of the games while ian have more freedom in comic. I want to see how hes gonna write the DC crossover comic, that would be interesting lol.
@@mio3199 i mean you could say that.. because of sega and Sonic team's involvement but they also have some involvement and quality control over the IDW comics aswell why they didn't stop ian writing sonic so preachy back then? Which means he had some wiggle room writing sonic's character with his own narrative he just had to stay true to the bounds of the character so he doesn't become unrecognizable i mean heck he wrote most of the script like the dialogues the story itself just abit including NPC dialogues but not without some restrictions too particular but i would argue he has more freedom than pontac and graff he probably took the criticism about sonic is preachy and corrected it because at some point he did acknowledged his error in his bumblekast podcast.
I would say this, he's inconsistent because of the SEGA adapting the brand for the appeal of each regions. Namely, the international branch never attempted to allow the original Japanese Staff to have oversight on the licensive nor do they implement the original vision of the characters. Basically, despite some adaptational deviations like with Sonic X and the OVAs, they have full control of what Sonic the Hedgehog would be portrayed as; Hell, they even gave Sonic a Family for the line of Grade school comics (wonder if or when they'll bring that up again). The Point is, the inconsistencies were a result of the lack of control from the Japanese staff over the localization; from the early 1990s to mid 2010s. He was different across each regions (subtle but noticeable), and that's because SEGA allows both the localizers to modify him for appeal to that region. Also note that Ian Flynn, and subsequently all overseas writers of said games, have to collaborate and answer to the Japanese staff by obligation now that they have full control of the series.
now there's seems to be some control and focus for the characterizations when it comes to idw but they still have some wiggle room though that's why it's consistent these days like the comic has diffrent writers but the characters still consistent it's because there's some quality control involved and has some specific guidelines and some restrictions(even though they are not really heavy) for the characters to work with so that's why the characters are consistent more or less in IDW although it's not perfect...and you know why for number if reasons.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x Shame that most of the writers at IDW Sonic Branch were either influence by or worked for Archie Comics; there's no way Sonic Team can undo that bias.
@@DrMecha i mean... obviously it's only natural some of the archie DNA passed to sonic IDW because they are the same writers from archie heck even some of the artists from Archie are also here in IDW aswell but overall i don't really bad I would say the majority of the characterizations are pretty solid actually! shadow(Urban warefare),sonic(sometimes if he's not in the philosophy and morality panel area),amy,tails,knuckles, chaotix, silver,blaze, rouge,cream etc also what bias you are talking about exactly? I'm confused.
@@DrMechathat is inevitable but its not like sega was ever against introducing elements from other canons like archie into the main continuity Like black knight that is usually considered one of the best writen Sonic's and the last game Shiro Maekawa wrote is also the game that introduced chilidogs as Sonic's favorite food, an element that was first introduced in archie and now is a fundamental part of his characterization And with Ian Flynn at the helm of the mainline series I imagine that more elements will get mixed here and there, all with the approval of sega and sonic team of course
6:45 I'm not a fan of colors writing but it does have one good moment at the end where tails is saying he's unsure about beating the wisp armor and sonic just pushes him into the pod
I feel that what helps to separate a different iteration of a character is by establishing their different setups. With the mainline canon Sonic, his background is incredibly vague (practically nonexistent), so his line of thinking and spontaneous actions are just as nebulous. With alternate continuities like the movies, the pre-reboot Archie comics, and the ‘90s cartoons, we get different versions of his upbringing and background, which lend themselves to how his characterization is portrayed. For example, in the pre-reboot Archie comics (as well as SatAM and Underground), Sonic was mostly raised by his Uncle Chuck, who had to balance his profession as a scientist with caring for his nephew, which ultimately resulted in Sonic becoming more attention-seeking and egotistical when his uncle’s attention was focused elsewhere. With the Paramount Sonic being a mere kid who got stranded on Earth for his wellbeing, he pretty much spent his whole life observing people in isolation and obsessing over pop-culture as a means of helping him cope with his loneliness. It explains why he comes across as more awkward and insecure compared to his mainline counterpart.
I absolutely ADORE the racing scenario. Like, Sonic naturally doesn’t care for races and fair, physical competition on the grounds that he’s the fastest and most acrobatically capable guy he knows and that dulls the ideas that everyone else shares. Throw EGGMAN into the mix, a guy who absolutely will trash the event and make it anywhere from unfair to unbeatable purely for his own egomaniacal reasons? Sonic’s in there without a second word. Sonic punishes Eggman for his misdeeds and still doesn’t like him, but Eggman still makes Sonic’s life more interesting and throws bigger challenges his way throughout his adventures, and Sonic absolutely appreciates that. Even in Sonic 06, Shadow in his super form speaks about Solaris, the super-dimensional being he, Sonic, and Silver are confronting, and remarks that this might actually be a *fair* fight. And seeing as Shadow’s meant to be a more damaged mirror image of Sonic, that speaks volumes to *Sonic* as a character. Sonic has proven between 1998 and 2009 that he can and will fight gods and elemental deities purely for the fun of it if nothing else.
12:40 I snickered The thing you mentioned about Shadow Generations being a collaboration between Ian Flynn and Sega of Japan is interesting, because that's pretty much what Sonic Forces was; even more so, I think! Its story was written in Japanese, then rewritten in English, then localized in Japanese. That might explain why Sonic's characterization got much closer to how it was in the 2000's! And from what I know of Shadow Generations, Ian Flynn was actually much more of a standalone writer for it (even though I'm sure having a solid vision and direction for the game helped everyone immensely), so if a collaborative effort in the Pontaff era gave us Forces Sonic, I'm optimistic with Flynn (if we ever get that)! On the Forces topic, tbh I think Sonic being literally tortured and not feeling it might be going a bit too far. But either way, I don't really think it works in the game, since Forces already has trouble selling its setting in general. The problem of "how do you sell a serious situation through the eyes of someone who doesn't feel its seriousness?" is actually an interesting question imo, but in the case of Forces, I don't even know if you properly get to ask that question, because it just becomes another instance of the story struggling with its tone. On the movies topic, I... haven't watch them yet, but I agree with your general points. These movies are getting really popular, especially movie 3, and they'll be a lot of kids' introduction to the world of Sonic. If Sonic really is that starkly different, it'll be... weird, at least. I can imagine the kids watching the movies actually growing up to love that version of Sonic; and if the Sonic they find in the games is closer to how he is in the 2000's, would they really be wrong in not wanting that? Are we going to see the movies' influence making its way into the games as the people who grew up with the movies start getting into other aspects of the franchise? I hope the opposite happens, but I don't know if I can really judge. Nice video as usual!! c: (Side note, I like treating Pontaff Sonic like a side thing like Boom and I think I found that there's something surprisingly delightful about him like that. He is so very stupid (affectionate). He constantly acts like he owns the place. Only about a quarter of his jokes land and the rest of them remind you he's fifteen years old. Idk maybe I'll rewatch the cutscenes from the 2010's and change my mind but for now I'm having fun)
Nothing wrong with liking the Pontaff era Sonic. I don’t hate that depiction of the character, I just don’t like how he rarely takes the situation at hand with any sense of urgency or seriousness. In Forces, it is said that he gets tortured for well over a year and is pretty much on death row, yet when the original player character bails him out, he looks fine and has an atitude that screams, “This is just another Tuesday for me!” If this were the Dreamcast, 4kids, or heck even classic Sonic, he would be beyond ticked off and have a real axe to grind. Eggman will not be sleeping soundly unless he flees the planet. I don’t mind Sonic cracking a joke now and again but in Colors - Forces, he would not stop. Green Hill is looking a lot more like Sand hill now? Sonic! A place you frequently roam has just turned into a desolate landscape! Who knows how many plants, animals, or ecosystems were harmed in the process. Why are you joking about this? If Sonic, the protagonist, does not seem to care about what is happening, then why should I? Part of me wants to see what the 2010’s games would be like if they had more closely stuck to the dialogue from the Japanese scripts. From what I hear, the dialogue has stayed pretty consistent and Sonic has had the same voice since Adventure 1 if I’m not mistaken. Generations was a lot more bearable for me thanks to the rewritten dialogue for the remaster. Shadow Generations was amazing. If they can keep this trend going, I think the series will be in the best place it has been since the early 2000’s.
@AnotherLikeADragonFan2019 many things about this paragraph are just....wrong. Even if Sonic is being neaten and is on *"Death row"* He's not smiling because he's ignorant. He fully grasps what just happened,he's just not gonna let that get to him because what will that achieve??? He's just waiting to get out so he can stop eggman. The *"Sand hill"* joke is not very Sonjc like yes, i agree... but then you went on to question why he's not taking the scenario about Green Hill being turned to sand. 1st, again, he's focusing on making it to where Tails has asked him to join him and stop Eggman.... which, tbh is kinda not how you write a sonic story to begin with. Sonic doesn't stop eggman because he's told to, regardless if it's his friends asking him. He's minding his own business until eggman crosses his path or he himself makes it his mission to see him. Also, I'm not sure where you got that he frequently roams green hill as if that's his home.
@@ataladin87 I guess I can elaborate on some of my points to be more clear. Firstly, I never said anything about Sonic being ignorant. Ignorance would imply that he is unaware of the situation surrounding him. Being ignorant and not taking a situation seriously are two completely different things. Even then, I can buy the idea of Sonic not letting things get to him if he had only been captured for a few weeks, but after supposedly being tortured frequently, having to watch Eggman take over almost the entire planet, and not having any contact with his friends or the outside world, I think even someone as optimistic as Sonic would be at their breaking point. At the very least, he would drop the jokes and get serious. Sonic was never really a wisecracking jokester. That really only became a thing starting with Colors. Sonic is not Deadpool. That’s not even a fair comparison because even Deadpool would take the situation more seriously than Forces Sonic. Also, remember that the resistance only learned that Sonic was alive once his execution date was near. As far as Sonic knows, no one is coming for him. How exactly would he be waiting to get out so he can stop Eggman? Sonic’s not gonna let that get to him because what would that achieve? No. Sonic has absolutely let things get to him in the past. Just look at SA2. He responds to Shadow’s rude comments with “I’ll make you eat those words!” Look how Sonic acts during the end of Secret Rings or Black Knight. He slays Arthur with a sword and throws Erazor Djinn in a pit of lava. Both villains did a lot less than what Eggman has done throughout the series. I am aware of the instructions Tails gave him, but that still does not give Sonic an excuse to joke about the situation. I will give you the point in Green Hill as I worded that a little strange. I was not saying that Sonic lived in Green Hill, but from the fact that it is the most reoccurring level area across the series, it is clear that the place holds significance to Sonic’s character. So why on Earth would someone joke about seeing the desolate remains of a place that once held many memories?
Nah...i don't think movie sonic's characterization is gonna affect game sonic's characterization they are fundamentally different! Game sonic seem like a more matured version compare to game sonic so it's not like they are gonna regress him to become childish like i don't think they would even do something like that i don't think they are thats stupid they only take some inspirations and references from the movies like the whole power boost thingy from frontiers is actually came from the games originally.
So it wasn't just me who felt the sonic of today is the mixture of both 2000's and 2010's like that's the vibe I'm getting from current modern sonic It's like ian taking elements from both 2000's and 2010's and balancing it out in a way And the reason he's doing this isn't he's trying to ruin the character. He has the tendency of respecting the continuity in general doesn't matter what series is he actually did that before whenhe joined archie respecting the continuity and tge materials penders left behind and work with them And now he's doing the same thing for the games aswell he's actually acknowledging the events of 2010's games not actively ignoring them to make some form of consistency and continuity here which is something he did that ik frontiers. If you ask me that's one of his biggest strength in writing even though that's something he gets clowned on for but if you ask me the ability to work in a pre-existing continuity is definitely a skill which is something he's doing that for the games too and that's explains why sonic is the way he's written nowadays mixture of both(2000's and 2010's) athough there are some elements from archie sonic aswell i'm ngl..
Great video, echoed most of my thoughts exactly! It's frustrating as a long time fan to see Sonic's mainstream perception dragged through the mud for so long. For most of the general public, Sonic is an egotistical, quippy and childish character meant to appeal solely to children. That's how Sega seems to want people to see him as too. Despite this, it's his old characterization that still draws in fans and gives Sonic a legacy. There's a reason that Sonic's most popular media among hardcore fans are games and tv shows that came out 15 - 20 years ago. That version of the character was what made him a viable icon, and if he had started out as his current incarnation that Sega tries to push so hard, I really don't think he ever would have been as popular or beloved.
I feel like Frontiers/IDW Sonic is doing what Ian Flynn usually does; fixing the past whilst not discarding it entirely. Like when he took over as head writer of the archie comics from Ken Penders, he didn’t just throw out everything he didn’t agree with, but instead choose to adapt and evolve it. And now I think he’s doing the same thing with the Sonic games as a whole. Like you said in the video, everything Colours to Forces still happened, and whether we like that past material or not, Ian tries to respect that legacy as best as possible whilst moving things forward, which was pretty much the entire point of the story of Frontiers. So I do agree that present-day Sonic is likely a mix of his different game characterisations. Old Sonic as he truly knew him is gone, but that’s not a bad thing, because new Sonic has a lot to like too.
I definitely agree with your critiques of sonic's characterization in the movies. He feel to juvenile and try hard though that's not to say he doesn't have good moments. I'm also in agreement that he's way too quippy(though these days it feels like writers can't tell the differences between making quips and just constantly talking) though it does seem they are making improvements to how they potray sonic. Though sometimes I find myself wondering if it would have been better if they stuck (at least I heard this was the original plan) to having sonic go home at the end of the first one.
Almost everyone goes through different phases in life. Maybe Sonic has that too. You also have to realize that there are different writers, which could mean different Sonics altogether. The Sonic-Verse.
Maybe a hot take, but I've always thought that something seemed.... kind of off about Sonic's personality during the dark age. In the games where he has a "brand new BFF (Elise, Shara, Chip, Merlina) he just kind of seems like a motivational speech Spewer. Like he's just there to give comforting words to these new characters, and he just comes across as a tad dull. I liked how in Frontiers, he comforts his friends, but it just feels more in character for me. He tells Knuckles that his friends are always there for him, but jokingly calls him Knuckle Head. He tells Tails that he's proud of how far he's come, and when Tails jokes that he's surpassed Sonic, Sonic says "Yeah, don't push it!" I love that. I think it helps that it's a genuine connection between two characters that I enjoy, instead of Sonic "bonding" with this character who will never be seen, heard of, or mentioned ever again.
@@bowmaj8666 Yeah, I feel the same way about the Dark Age games. Some of them (like the Storybook games) gives Sonic a personality, but the majority of the games from that era have a Sonic that feels flat. I know it's more accurate to the Japanese Sonic, but it's so nonexistent I have trouble liking those stories, especially with the Rush duology. I prefer it when Sonic has a bit of snark to him. It just makes him feel more colorful.
@macp9315 I'm glad that someone gets it. Practically whenever I mention this, I always get bombarded with hate. Yeah, I felt the same way about the Rush series.
@@macp9315 I'm not going to lie, but I've really been enjoying the movie versions of these characters. For starters, Sonic is flawed, he can make mistakes, but he ultimately learns from them and grows as a character. Now I'm obviously aware that game media and film media are different, but I still find myself way more invested in the movie version over the game version which is this perfect, flawless being that everybody gushes over. It's just getting old.
You know.... When I look back at 06 and Unleashed (and I loved Unleashed) I can agree with what you just stated. But I guess it didn't bother me because as a kid, it didn't make Sonic less cool to me and I liked how he took the situation serious. Unleashed also gave us that perfect intro when he's attacking Eggman ship and says "I'll keep messing up your toys" in such a snarky way that it hit that "this is Sonic nerve". But basically it wasn't enough to annoy me. BUT WHAT WOULD have annoyed me is if I played Sonic Colors with the corny jokes. Frontiers and IDW Sonic are a damn good step in the right direction. Movie Sonic, I cant agree with you at all. All I see is Paramount trying to create an MCU humor, silly, immature wannabe of the Sonic we know who barely has that coolness to him. The excuse people make where "he's just a kid, he's going to grow and mature as he gets experience". Tails is a kid, and he's not immature. Hell they depict him VERY well to his game counterparts. Sonic hasn't changed throughout these movies. He's still silly, dare I say clumsy, hyperactive like a Saturday morning cartoon character for 3 year olds, and like I said attempting to quip like an MCU character. He's not progressing into the Sonic we know. Which ticks me off more than anything. This is their "static" Sonic.
@@UnifiedEntity To be fair though, the only reason that they changed it in Sonic Colours is because people complained about how everything was "too edgy and emo for a series about a cartoon hedgehog with gloved hands!" It's like as soon as one set of fans start complaining, Sega responds and changes things, only for another set of fans to start complaining that they should change it back. I feel like the confident, cocky and smart alecky nature is what makes Sonic who he is. I honestly don't care if he cracks a few corny jokes, just as long as it doesn't interfere with the more serious scenes. The scene in Frontiers where Sonic is about to crack a joke to a melancholy looking Knuckles, but decides not to, is hands down one of my favourite Sonic moments in years. It showcases that he can be kind to his friends and genuinely cares about them, but not in a way that makes him sound boring or like he's just quoting a motivational poster.
I honestly agreed with much of this video. Especially when it comes to Frontiers. That's what turned me off of Frontiers. It was TRYING to be a 2000s game but lacked the heart, soul, and sincerity the 2000s games had, and unfortunately, Flynn trying to compromise with throwing 2010s vibes in the mix is part of the issue. Like you said, they're trying to bridge the gap, when in reality, no one except 2010s fans would give a flip about that era. Most of us just want Sonic back to acting like he's supposed to. Heck, I've seen a lot of people say that they just need to retcon it and move on. Don't get me wrong, I see the logic in trying not to rub 2010s fans the wrong way, but still. But yeah, your video is spot on. Sonic was consistent until 2010. People saying otherwise is just a gaslighting lie people want to peddle to justify the constant chaos.
7:30 In japan, Sonic was still characterized the same as the 2000s, so this was a decision made specifically for the west 8:28 The only reason why Sonic is more accurate is because the story was originally written by Japanese writers. 9:32 And the Shadow story was not purely written by Ian. It was a collaboration with the Japanese writers and actually had more in the say of the story than Ian. 11:05 I have also watched many of Ian's Q&As and in one of them around 2022 he said that his writtinf is similar to Pontac and Graf's writing, but there are like hundreds of those Q&As and finding that would be impossible even I have tried to find it to prove my point so take that with a grain of salt And I also do care to much about this fucking blue rat, WHEN WILL WE BE LIFTED OFF THIS PUNISHMENT!
y'know i *really* should've mentioned that the japanese titles had characterization more consistent with the 2000s games even post-colours because i DID know that, i just didn't think to mention it. i didn't know forces was done originally by Japanese writers though. and i mention shadow gens being a collaboration between the jp writers and ian flynn at 13:05
I think he's the same from day one in Japan, especially since the creators have more or less of an impact there than overseas where SEGA allows licensors to do whatever they want with the character with the games as the base material. It all boils down to the International Handling of the Brand, he's inconsistent around the world, not within the games themselves. He could be Felix in one region and Bart in another, all to appeal to the broad audience of that region.
@DrMecha And another thing people don't talk about is that Japan's culture is built on respect, which also includes respect for the creators of the material they work on, is the reason why the Japanese side is often more respectful of the original side of Sonic.
for shadow generations i would say ian definitely had more creative freedom this time but you are right it was a collabrative work between ian flynn,sega of japan(which they control the narrative for the games these days) and the official lore team.
12:31 To be fair to the voice sounding like that, i interpreted it as him being tired the entire time since he landed on that island. even his animation was tired no matter how many rings you had. buuut thats for that island in particular
@@autumn7 that'sd fair that's fair. i think i was happy to hear a sonic i didn't want to toss into a lake after so long that i sorta forgave a lot of it xD (i also like the lower tone too.)
I think Sonic Frontiers Sonic definitely feels like he is like the oldest sounding Sonic ngl. Sonic rn feels like he became older and is phasing out what made him free and cool. I like to characterize Sonic when he was younger (in the classic days) as someone that really was at his most independent. He doesn’t get heavily invested in people himself, but he helps whenever he can. While Sonic right now feels like he’s on the border of being people’s cool uncle. The vibes of Sonic really do make Sonic feel like he’s that cool co-worker that likes to hang out. He’s cool in the way of being nice and helpful nowadays.
I think to make an easier distinction. Frontiers Sonic feels like he’s Nathan Drake from Uncharted 4, he’s old, slightly tired, but still wants adventure. He sounds less energetic and feels like he does stuff because he always do. I feel like it’s a thing of Sonic Team writing game Sonic like an icon to look up to and not a symbol of freedom.
11:29 yo, this is really good explanation and not attack the writter the series, good job Oh and Also, i agree with the Sonic movies, like i think they have some Sonic moments here and there and Jeff and Tyson care, but i think movie Sonic has some moments, specially how he inspires knuckles or shadow to do the right thing. But Also the Guy is clearly just made to appeal to children more than Sonic fans. Like, you can Tell with him having an origin (except his powers) but tails, knuckles and shadow, even with a few changes are kinda like the games
10:00 i hate this This sounds like something archie or movie sonic would say, game sonic wouldnt be so egotistical, he genuinely doesnt care if hes awsome or not
Was Sonic’s character always inconsistent? Mephiles the dark: The answer is yes AND no. Realistically, that’s just what happens when a character gets passed around several writers without a mediator to check for consistency. SEGA didn’t care for twenty plus years, and now they are paying for it. The real problem is that SEGA has dug themselves in a hole by insisting on every Sonic game being canon. The only way that makes sense given all of Sonic’s changes in characterization over the years is that he has some sort of extreme disassociation problem. I don’t mind the change in characterization from Forces to Frontiers, in fact I welcome it as a return to form, but it is still a bit jarring to jump from jokey hipster Sonic, to heroic anime protagonist Sonic in no time flat. The only way I can see them spinning it is if they give Sonic some kind of character redemption arc. Basically Sonic’s character arc in the Sonic Prime cartoon but done in a game and written better. It will never happen, but I would like a hypothetical Sonic game where his character changes and evolves as the player goes through the story. The gist would be that after foiling Eggman’s schemes and saving the world dozens of times, Sonic has grown egotistical and overconfident. He never takes anything seriously and jokes around all the time like Sonic in the Colors - Forces era. But then something bad happens and Sonic has to spend the rest of the story getting reacquainted with his more heroic and responsible self. That would be interesting but that would never happen as SEGA is as restrictive of the Sonic character as Disney is with Mickey Mouse.
This made worst with both the localization and the licensing issues around the world; instead of respecting the creators' vision, they mold him to adapt with the pop culture of that region for mass appeal. This is why you have a rude Sonic in europe, and Snarky Sonic in America, and a Brother figure in Japan; it's a marketing strategy and nothing more.
All they have to do is remake sa1, sa2, Sonic Heroes, maybe shadow and 06 too, turn Battle, Secret Rings, and Black Knight into animated spin off OVAs or specials cause they both have great stories but the games themselves are mid and battles setting and shadows story make no sense since the writers of that game had no idea what the context of his return to heroes was gonna be, remaster the advanced, Rush, and riders games, give silver a new origin that has nothing to do with Rivals because Eggman Nega being from the future makes no sense. Get better voice directors. While remaking /remastering all of these games they need to have Flynn and the Japanese writers collaborating to make everything fit together.
I just hope their can be a better integration for the Sonic cast’s characterization. All of them have gone through an “arc” to get them back to their original characters, (besides Amy who didn’t even get her successful arc translated into Sonic Adventure 2 and is now a completely different person) ala Frontiers and now Shadow Gens. But now the issue is that it’s a sudo fan interpretation. Characters like Shadow who had a multi game spanning arc of him literally abandoning his past, now we spent a whole year about his past which defeats the whole idea of shadow moving on form the burden of Maria and Gerald’s wishes onto him. Knuckles learning in frontiers to take a break from guarding the master emerald which he already was…? The whole Tails thing that more need not be said. The unfortunate fact of what people saw Sonic as in the 2010’s is now the norm of Sonic is sad. I do blame UA-camrs for that a lot considering they often tease or just mock the games trying to have a serious tone. There are many other cartoony out there games with serious plots but suddenly when it comes to Sonic he’s a punching bag. I feel the next game that drops should have that tone of seriousness but instead of frontiers and 06 where it’s placed front and center, it should be in the background, while showing us how these characters truly act and where each actually fall into the world. Like how each character is independent of each other all with varying motivations and reasons for participating
Well the 2010's Sonic was Sega's response to how the mass viewed Sonic. As a joke. People and critics saying "Sonic is too serious? what are these big serious anime final fantasy plots? Sonic doesn't need a story. Sonic and his stupid friends." While we as fans liked it to varying degrees. I personally really liked shonen anime-esq Sonic. So to rejuvenate the brand with the 4kids contracts expiring they took a new approach. With the Pontaff era Sonic and co. Focus on just Sonic, Tails and Eggman. With a more Saturday morning cartoon approach. Sacrificing the cool cheese of the 2000's us fans liked. So I am so glad that with Flyyn and the success of Frontiers, Shadow Gens, movie 2 and 3, we can get back to somethign similar with the 2000's era Sonic.
I disagree on ur point for Amy & her arc up to SA2 but the rest especially the shadow & knuckles thing u're totally right bout & I hate it. Tho in knuckles case the jp version changed it so that he's MORE committed to his job & will even try to learn more bout his ppl cus he acknowledges he's not done a good job at it. So his case is weird & so is Amy's cus hers is diff too in jp frontiers
It’s so interesting to me to see this shift in Sonic’s character because it aligns well with my own move to relentless irony to shield myself from ridicule. I remeber I used to model my personality after Sonic when I was younger only to be met laughter and ostracization, so as I got older I started to adopt a more ironic approach so when people laugh at me I could feel like I was laughing with them and not being laughed at. Someone else commented saying, Sonic is now “””cool””” and god that hit like a truck. These endless layers of irony keep me and Sega’s current characterization of Sonic safe from ridicule for being too self-serious and becoming a laughing stock. Meanwhile, theses layers of irony are strategically sound as when some of our actions are received as cool or impressive we can fully capitalize on it and purport that was what we’re going for the entire time. Sadly, in that process we’ve both lost our authenticity that made us appealing in the first place and a core apart of ourselves to build the rest of our identity around. Factoring other’s expectations too heavily in how we perceive ours is such a hard thing to overcome and ironically goes against the core of Sonic’s independence and self-assured attitude. Maybe Sega and I should take a page from what made Sonic actually Sonic way back when and use that to inform how we should receive and respond to negativity in the future.
I like the Sonic movies and I am able to vibe with their depiction of Sonic when I turn my brain off but I must admit there were times where movie Sonic's writing felt foreign to me. I couldn't help but feel some kind of culture shock when Sonic called Tom dad in the 2nd film for example. I agree with you on how it may be the films popularity that temps one to be a little more critical of Sonic's characterization. Usually, when I see something I dislike such as Sonic getting kissed back to life or Sally slapping Sonic in front of a large crowd, I don't worry how it'll effect people's perception of Sonic since I know those are niche topics contained within the Sonic fanbase and don't circulate much within general audiences. The Sonic movies on the other hand is THE source material for general audiences so it feels harder to not be disconcerted when I am the only proper Sonic fan in my family and I have to wonder if the films are affecting my older siblings perception on Sonic's character.
@GordanTheToad this is exactly how i feel too. it feels like such a disservice that most of the world will know sonic as a quippy, immature kid that’s still got growing up to do, when game sonic is anything but that. i don’t understand how they managed to adapt every character BUT sonic mostly accurately
THIS is my fear with the Sonic movies. Hell, this is my fear with Sonic Prime as well. Those two pieces of media I would NOT EVER recommend to introduce Sonic as, as they are not the portrayal of a great Sonic. The only character I can say the movies got right was Tails but above all else? Hell no.
Why wouldn't he call him dad? The Sonic of the movie grew up lonely and longed for a family his whole life. After he found one, he expresses that feeling. The Sonic of the game usually lacks a family, so obviously you don't see him having these kinds of interactions. But the Sonic of the movie comes from a different background. In my opinion, it was a good addition that gave depth to his character. His personality in the movie compared to the games is a matter of debate, but the fact that he has a family doesn't detract from that and even benefits the development of his character, especially his relationship with Tom. In the games, he never had a father figure, as far as I understand, so it's clear that he wouldn't have anyone to call "dad." These are two separate things. As I said, regarding the personality itself, yes, there are differences, but the fact that they added a family to him is great in my opinion.
Counterpoint to Sonic being inconsistent, he was never that inconsistent to begin with. If anything he's had a very steady and easy to track growth from his debut all the way up to Black Knight, you can easily map how the character grew and in which ways, which events caused a shift and how he was perceived started to be more dynamic. The 2010s were filled with subpar writing but even that I don't find that hard to contextualize, most of his Meta Era portrayals can be reserved as "He got overly confident and sassy, too comfortable in his own abilities, with a lot of what happened during that time seeming inconsequential to him as a person" and that post-war (post-Forces) he went "Oh shi lemme lock in cause I got complacent a bit". IDW and Frontiers Sonic are by far the best the character's ever been tho. He's finally a jack of all trades. Not just Adventure Era-esque, not just reminiscent of his 90s, not just Meta Era-esque, he has elements of all 3 eras combined into one. Into THE Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic right now is at his most refined. Also, I disagree about Frontiers' voice direction. I love, no, adore every single delivery in that game, every single one.
I agree forces, aside from the jokes, wrote him really well, he almost couldve been like 2000s sonic Sonic doesnt and shoulnt change, which is why him being fine after the torture makes sense, he has an undying spirit
We need more sonic x and 2000s sonic style Frontiers seems to be going that way sonic is indeed a “actions over words” he shoudlnt be joking unless its a subtle tease to some enemy or smth Also YES! Japanese sonic and sonic x is indeed the best how did you know?
Growing up with at least three different interpretations of Sonic at once in the 90s makes me very resistant to the idea that Sonic has one correct characterization. We knew that Sonic was fast, he smirked, and that he had an attitude. Those three things were the pillars, basically. The cartoons we had varied wildly and so did the interpretations. But the basics were still there so it was always Sonic. The fact that he had no set characterization left a lot to our imagination, and maybe that's why he thrived in the 90s. I started eating chili dogs because Sonic did it in the Adventures series back in the day. He was funny there and was just being a fun character. The Saturday morning show was much darker. Again, because it was up to our imaginations, we couldn't say it wasn't Sonic.
I’m honestly hoping movie Sonic can evolve into 90s/2000s Sonic as the movies go on. Would love to see an arc of him realizing that, while he loves Tom and Maddie, in his heart he doesn’t want to stay in one place and wants to live freely (which would honestly be a great opportunity for a grown up kid leaving their parents to become an adult type of trope). If we get to explore more planets in future movies I think it’d be a great opportunity to get him to move to and explore the more fantastical locals in the Sonic universe
Ian's Sonic (at least in the comics) is weird in a way that it feels like a chimera of all the different iterations. He makes jabs at his friends like early toon Sonic, he relaxes a lot like the Sonic from Sonic X, he makes the dumb jokes here and there like in the 2010's (It's toned way down but it's still there), he often works with others like in the adventure and gamecube games, he doubts himself like in Unleashed, etc. etc. It's interesting. It feels like every part of Sonic gets a moment to shine.
Sonic should be calm in emotions but active physically Sonic prime makes sonic look like a kid ngl And sonic shouldnt yap too much Hes like the wind btw, no lighting should be there
Someone who gets it. Yes. That's something I love about Sonic. I always felt that the 90s games where he doesn't speak wasn't because they didn't have voice acting, its just how he operates. Sure he will talk, but as you said, more about action.
I think most of this comes down to the way the West treated Sonic very differently to Japan in the early days, basically coming up with their own origin stories (Doctor Robotnik Vs Eggman for example). I do think that it would have been interesting to look at the other Sonic media in more detail in the context of this video. Sonic in the 90s cartoons was very quippy and that was the main exposure for a lot of people in the West outside of the games. You also have the various comics (Archie in the US and Fleetway in the UK) which had their own takes on the character and his history. I know you touched on this in the video, but a lot of this stuff will have influenced peoples perceptions of Sonic's characterisation. The media we had outside of the games was all over the place.
Leaving this comment before watching the video, absolutely not, Nikki/Sonic, Fleetway and Archie all had the cocky and fast thing, but were all very different characters when giving them more than a passing glance.
Junichi is the standard for what sonic sounds and is like We need japanese people doing the voice direction, like in sa1 when picking American voices junichi was there with ryan seeing if he does things right
The thing about Sonic telling jokes is that it doesn't work if he's just talking to thin air, which he often is in the 2010s games. I like the idea of him being kind of jokey but only in relation to his friends. I like the moment where he makes a pun and Tails laughs it off in a "I can't believe you just said" that way because it shows how comfortable and laid back they are with each other. That's a cool trait to have and cool is at the very core of Sonic's character but it doesn't work if he's just doing it to entertain himself. It makes him seem lonely and out of touch then. The jokes just work better when we they're used as an avenue to interact with his friends but the 2010's didn't have the luxury of doing that because SEGA heard "Sonic has too many friends" and, as they do, reacted in the most extreme way by cutting everyone but Tails. It's a real shame to because his friends would all have very different reactions to those kinds of jokes. Imagine Shadow being too high and mighty for Sonic's dumb puns or Big getting genuine laughter from the exact same pun. A lot of jokes might go right over the head of Knuckles or any of the robots.
I feel like a great example of Sonic conforming to general audience misinterpretations of him is his whole “Gotta go fast“ catchphrase. He never directly said the corny, ironically “cool” catchphrase until it was so well associated with him due to memes and 4 kids’ localizations. Now he even says it in the movies which is only gonna further cement its association and might reflexively influence his other characterizations. Brand homogeneity with the movies and shows is my biggest fear with the franchise and I hope future Sonic games can have the confidence to resist that urge.
While I do think it was good for the purposes of the video to focus on how the games have characterized Sonic, I wouldn’t have left out the rest of the series’ extended media over the years from the conversation. Just as you noted that, due to its popularity, Movie!Sonic’s portrayal has now to a degree become what general audiences think Sonic is, the same can be said for the early Sonic cartoons or comics back in the 90s. I think a big key to this conversation is that early on Sega had basically let its overseas branches handle Sonic’s portrayal to better appeal to their respective audience. Where Sega of Japan was more focused on targeting a younger audience (as seen with the Shogakukan manga where Sonic is a little hedgehog boy named Nicky living with his family), Sega of America and Europe wanted to hone in on his attitude and coolness to better appeal to their geological demographics (Fleetway, SatAM, Archie, etc). I can go more in depth on this aspect but it’d certainly take up a lot of time lol. To put it simply, I at least think that the issues from how people view Sonic’s characterization in part stem from the varying interpretations and versions of him we have seen over the years.
I dislike the “different interpretation” argument to defend movie Sonic personally. There is a certain point where it’s no longer just an interpretation, it’s just a bad adaptation. Knuckles and Shadow are clear examples of “different interpretations” while being faithful to the core essence of their characters. Movie Sonic does not feel like Sonic at all to me.
I'll just say I respect your opinion but I disagree. I want to rationalize why but I've never been too great at explaining myself in nuanced conversations like this. I like Movie Sonic the way he is and have grown fond of the characters in Paramount's interpretation of the series. It's interesting because I've been a fan of the series since the early 2000's but I've only recently started liking Sonic as a character. Sonic Prime and the movie universe are instances where I actually like Sonic as a character. However, because the fanbase deems these two interpretations too far removed from Sonic's true character I can't really call myself a fan of Sonic can I. I don't know, it just bothers me and I can't find the words to explain why.
@@TheZetoBlade I'd guess it's because those Sonics are depicted more childish, lacking confidence here and there, and needing to develop into the Sonic we all know and love while in the games Sonic doesn't really develop because he's pretty much good to go at all times. Take Sonic Rush for example, Blaze has this whole arc about learning how to trust people and accept help from others while Sonic already knows that and never needed to learn that, the whole thing is just another Tuesday for him. Sonic is fairly static in the games and when the adventure's over, he just moves on going "well that was neat, wonder what's next?" while the rest of the cast tend to learn and grow from the experience.
@@Err0_Will It's the Sonic some fans know and love, I personally never cared for that original interpretation. Movie Sonic is the Sonic I enjoy, and respectfully I don't believe he needs to become game Sonic.
@@TheZetoBlade he's not the sonic i like or even depiction but i do enjoy his character anyway since it's a different continuity and he's actually having some solid character development too that essentially lead to evolve his character i like the character progression he's going through.
@@TheZetoBlade either way, point being that prime and the movies are Sonics that need development and have flaws to work past plus have the benefit of a semiconsistent vision to work with
@@Err0_Will prime sonic doesn't sit right with me anymore because now they said it's canon 💀💀 i was kinda fine with idw because it atleast made some sense and characterizations was way more accurate compared to prime but prime particular nah..
Only in the western side of things. He has a very consistent character in the Japanese side of things up until Colors. Though he was pretty out of character in 06 in general.
I got into Sonic in 2015, and God was that a terrible time to get into the franchise. If it weren't for all the prior games from the 2000s and the Archie comic, I don't think my intense love for the franchise would have stuck. Japanese Sonic is definitely my favorite version of the character. He's far more consistent as well due to always having the same VA. I've mostly consumed all Sonic media in Japanese for years now, and I love it. Thanks for this amazing video, it was cool seeing someone talk about this!
pretty much same boat here, i got into the series in 2016 after playing cd on mobile 😭 i don't think i'd be a fan of this franchise had i played any of the games that released at the time instead.
I still think Frontiers Sonic is missing a lot of what was captured pre-colors, not just voice direction. But I'll admit that it's a step up. Otherwise I agree on basically everything else as someone who has been around since the Genesis days!
I feel like Game Sonic (mainly Adventure - Black Knight) is a static character. He’s a figure of light who does what he sees as right no matter the cost. He is one of the most inspiring characters to me and I’m still glad I grew up with the Sonic X iteration of his character. Thus, Movie Sonic is not “my Sonic” but I think he is a fitting Sonic for what they are doing with him. Game Sonic is somewhat hard to write development for since he’s so static, so Movie Sonic being a bit more inexperienced makes more since to me. He seems like a character who is made to grow throughout the films through meaningful character development. This doesn’t mean Game Sonic doesn’t have development, just that he’s usually more of a vehicle to teach morals, while Movie Sonic seems to be learning these morals. I think him “developing” into his game self is possible but I don’t really see them changing his quippy side. I do agree that he was likely mishandled at the start, while Shadow, Knuckles and Tails had more of a smooth introduction and could be seen as closer to their game counterparts. Movie Sonic (esp since Sonic 3) IS cool when he wants to be and I do pefer it when he’s not talking. Funnily enough, I think he was most close to his game counterpart during his interactions with Shadow during the third act of Sonic 3. Erm.,,.enough rambling. Sonic is rad.
Literally everything you said was exactly what I have been complaining about with movie sonic.Especially when it came to not respecting the source material in the beginning
12:25 to answer that question is because sonic in this game it he feels kinda restrained because of the somber tone of the game just like his friends including amy like jesus she was so restrained because of the tone of the game like the only character next to sonic that was affected by the tone of the game was her i mean there was some stakes involved too ngl...so that's why the voice direction was quite odd.
The quipiness is..fine just barely make jokes...not constantly but egotistical? Idk...i mean modern sonic seemed too nice and friendly these days if you ask me specially in frontiers but he lost his edge though and i don't think he really come off as an egotistical person..
I'm glad we're talking about this because frontiers sonic would probably not make a quip about in flight entertainment on a gun flight and then rip off a panel to use as like a skateboard and I recently thought about that. It's weird. His edge is gone.
My best discription of Sonic: Confident and cocky, Jokester, serious when called for, thinks on his feet, heroic, brave, cool, benevolent, caring and kind, And of course...Fast.
At this point, I think the hardest character in this entire franchise to understand for me is not Amy, not Knuckles, not even Shadow, but Sonic himself.
The weird thing about movie Sonic is that it feels like the writers care about him and the franchise as a whole but Paramount forced them into the jokey speedster archetype in the first movie because that's what they thought would appeal to normal Americans (which isn't exactly wrong, just disappointing). So he's written with a decent amount of heart but you've got to wade through a lot of very corporate feeling characterization to get to the actual good stuff (like his relationships with Tails and Knuckles). And they can't just suddenly change him to be more similar to games because a) that's poor writing, making Paramount Sonic consistent with Game Sonic would make him inconsistent with himself unless developed very carefully and b) changing Paramount Sonic to be more like Game Sonic would more likely than not mean fundamentally changing almost everything else about the movies
The reason I call the movie version of Sonic an improvement is not because of his personality. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with his personality in the games (and in Sonic X, his personality would've been fine if they had continued the series, because I know for a fact that he was going to have a big character arc in season 4). The issue I took was that he was never given much in terms of a character arc in the games, and even when he had anything vaguely resembling an arc, it was always self-contained. But the reason I like movie Sonic so much is because the movies DO give him an arc, and it's an arc that makes sense. I always joked around that the movies are basically Sonic X if Sonic was given a character arc in it. But if you watch Sonic 3 and compare it to the first two movies, he has matured quite a bit, and his personality is starting to draw closer to what it was in the 2000s era Sonic games. All the movies are doing is explaining how he got there.
Great job with the video! I really enjoyed the examples and probably ought to watch Sonic X's JP dub. Also the bit at 12:30 was hilarious. For me, I never saw a harsh dividing line between Sonic's characterization in Colors-onwards and prior games. Like yeah he cracks jokes more frequently but it never felt out of line with his character, especially in like, Heroes for instance. I will say the plots themselves were a lot less engaging from Colors through Forces though. Regarding Paramount Sonic though, having also seen the third movie, I didn't see him becoming more like game Sonic, but moreso just becoming more confident on his own. I remain interested in seeing how they adapt things in the movies but they definitely just feels like their own thing separate from the games. And that's ok! Like you mentioned, Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow are mostly on point though. That could have something to do with the success and feedback from the first movie. Anyway, again - great video!
I see your point, Autumn- as much as I don't mind other characterizations of Sonic, I can recognize that he hasn't been the same over the years, his character from the Adventure days is a far cry from his 2010's characterization, and still different from his current one I've reflected upon something while watching this, not as a critique to your argument, but something I find interesting. The Sonic movies came out in 2020, which is- before Sonic Frontiers came out. That would mean Movie Sonic was probably based a lot on 2010's Sonic- he's like him, but more childish and immature because... well, he is a younger version of Sonic, I assume. The quips, the ego... it feels to me that it was meant to be a more inexperienced and childish version of him, and as the movies are going on, are progressing to be more of his own thing, more disconnected from Game Sonic. Personally, I was fond of his characterization in the third movie, not just Sonic, but the characters in general, because I think it's a new, fresh interpretation on them, and i find them likable- Knuckles is both hilarious and worthy of respect, Tails while still geeky and nerdy, remains a kid at heart, and there's a bit of naïveté to Shadow's character, which I find refreshing. Things I like about Movie Sonic is that he's still learning about how to be a hero. He's not even close to Game Sonic in terms of experience, so he'll mess up, a lot. Not to mention that's been isolated for most of his life, so he is going to act differently. But with each movie, he learns more. In Sonic 2, Sonic learns about responsibility, and what it means to be a hero. And his character arc leads him to befriending Knuckles, who ends up learning with him as well, which I think is very sweet. And I believe that with each movie, he learns more and more so he can be the best Sonic he can be. TL;DR: I think Movie Sonic's characterization was firstly based off of 2010's Sonic, however, he is moving on to be its own different thing, and I appreciate that, even if it's different from Game Sonic overall But nice video overall, Autumn ^^
Me personally, I think most interpretations of Sonic are good in their own right. I do wish it was more consistent, but different times call for different measures. Which is why I like what you did here. You don't outright call the 2010s characterization trash, but just inconsistent, which is what we came here for. Speaking of which, I think there is a way to link the different versions of Sonic's characterizations. The thing with Colors Sonic is that the reason this change was made was because it was the only way for Sonic to succeed. So Sonic changed, and so did the tone as a whole. My take here is that how Sonic acts depends on the atmosphere. Now that may seem dead obvious, but I'm talking to a ridiculous degree. Sonic doesn't feel the need to do anything that urgent at all during the 2010s games, so he feels no need to just act. He's okay slowing down and explaining everything. If the fundamentals of his environment change, his character does too. I know I'm just pulling this outta my ass, and it really shouldn't be that way, but 06 happened. 😔 Lastly, to anyone saying that BK is the objectively best characterisation, and every game after Colors is trash because it's different, shut up. Remember, art is *subjective.* Anyone's interpretation is valid. And even if it isn't, story is never the main focus of a Sonic game. It ain't the end of Sonic, calm down.
14:01 wasn't this whole point of him to being Abit irresponsible to have character development? Even tom called him out for it Like he eventually did learned to be more reasonsible and actually had a solid character development from this and grow from it i think you should take that to account he's flawed but not static he's actually learning and developing and evolving as a character! What i do disagree about your opinion about movie sonic is that you are kinda ignoring the character development he had throughout the movies like he definitely became better and evolved.
That approach is inherently a misinterpretation of Sonic as a character. Sonic is very intentionally a static character, there’s only so far you can excuse how mischaracterized he is with “it’s for character development” when Sonic as a whole should not be the result of some massive personality shift. It’s very obviously just a misinterpretation of his characterization, not an intentional change to have him grow into game Sonic like people say he is
@@DarnHooligan i mean...that's the whole point of why he isn't exactly potrayed like his game counterpart because probably the writers didn't wanted movie sonic to be a static character and wanted him to actually learn and grow as a character to have character development and such while i know his potrayal isn't exactly like how he's potrayed in games but i can respect the decision and commitment and the direction they are taking here i like movie sonic for who he is and as it's own thing and the solid character development he had throughout the movies like you actually see him grow and more mature which is something i can appericiate and the direction they took that's just solid and good character writing. it's like god forbid a character have character growth..
thats a good question i. can't tell if that'd be better or worse. i'm leaning towards worse. my brain is picturing a weird combination of boom sonic and x sonic and i don't like it.
The IDW Sonic is a whole other beast to discuss, and yeah, he deserves the divisive talk about him. I don't know if it's more Flynn or Evan Stanley, but there seems to be this odd fixation on writing Sonic to do long monologues and becoming a paragon type hero, and constantly giving the villain chances and even telling them to "apologize" after attempting to blow up a city (this just happened in the latest issue 75, you'll probably find a lot of people still talking about it) which in the midst of something VERY time sensitive, felt so dumb to do slowing a fight down like that. Sonic is a rogue hero not a paragon/goodie two shoes type. He does stuff based on his own principles, he shouldn't be acting like an authority over everyone else, which the comic frequently ends up at. Should be spending less time quipping and monologuing and more time getting down to business, this point i very much resonate with in your video. Sometimes they do actually get him right, its just this latest issue seems to have relapsed into where he's at his weakest writing wise.
I noticed that in the soundtrack version of this sence the music that plays is the same as from the movie except that in the movie the music is played at a more frantic and is much more fast paced Here it sounds much more slower and I wonder why that is ? And if anyone knows why this is please feel free to inform me about this as I would love to if there is an answer to this
I've seen people criticizing SEGA's decission to make Sonic appeal internationally by letting each region have their own interpretation of Sonic, and I agree with them. BUT, whether we like it or not, this is what we're stuck with now, so let try to find the good in it. Sonis as a brand has become extremely huge internationally, and this can be seen in Sonic himself. He's not alligned with his Japanese writing anymore because his American writing is also a part of him now. Sonic has become a symbol of globalization, SEGA just need to find the balance between this and his writing and we're all good to go Also, Movie Sonic isn't done growing yet so maybe we will get a more true version of himself in the future. Yes, I know kids doesn't need a character that grow alongside them to teach them good values when a perfectly executed well written static character xan do that just find but they're stuck with the former since Sonic 1 so I'll give them some slack
I have always had what I feel is an unpopular idea of how I interpret Sonic I really enjoy it when he's quippy and arrogant I don't think these traits are mutually exclusive from a strong sense of justice, or his actions speaking louder than his words. I enjoy a lot of Sonic's annoying quirks You can make jokes and banter and still not needing to explain your actions, but most of the time quippy versions of Sonic don't do that He's always explaining why he's there and why he is doing what he's doing. In an ideal scenario (for me) Sonic is constantly yapping, but it's closer to small talk Like suggesting new paint jobs for eggman's mechs.
I mean yes it’s not very consistent, movie Sonic is NOT game Sonic and Sonic from the adventure games is not the same anymore as the one in the 2000s game I miss the adventure era but now he is more a spider man hero that makes jabs
tbf he's less jokey these days in IDW and in frontiers zero jokes was there i don't think we should be considered about sonic's quipping because for one it slowly starting get addressed what we should be considered about is the whole philosophy he has in IDW and oooooh boy is this a massive miss!! i think we should be more concern about this they kinda addressing some of the criticisms about it and it's been awhile we haven't seen any type of that philosophy or moral scenarios again for awhile(hopefully it stays or be less of it) but we have to wait and see ofc it's been a complete year his characterization has improved and they probably took the criticism about sonic's characterization but let see how it goes in the future issues
LOVED the video, agree with a lot of your points, but i would give "Movie Sonic is better in Movie 3" argument a bit of a benefit of the doubt. A lot of aspects of his characterization from the first two movies are still undeniably present, but he is much more proactive at the same time. After GUN initially recruits him, he himself comes to conclusion that he can't trust them and he wants to learn the truth to do the right thing. This seems like fairly Sega Sonic thing to do (the game sonic would probably not be so easily convinced to go along with helping GUN tho admittedly).
that's about the only thing he does in the movie that slightly resembles game sonic. the rest of the time he's too caught up in quipping, splitting off from his OWN team, and going on revenge plots
@@therandomvideochannel8589 with all due respect, sonic splitting off from the team is perfectly in-character lol. he loves his friends but he can just easily go out on his own without warning.
@@klu698 actually yeah fair point but i think it was done with the wrong intent. the bit that rubbed me the wrong way about that is there was a clear arc of him learning to be a team leader, asking forgiveness from tails and knuckles at the end for going his own way. that's very not sonic
i feel like Movie Sonic is fundamentally a different person than Game Sonic. he's a naive kid, an outsider, and has much to learn. he has a positive character arc over the course of the films, and Game Sonic isn't written like that. heck, his games aren't even written following the monomyth structure like the movies are. Game Sonic is generally the one enacting change on his environment, and remaining mostly the same. Movie Sonic is being changed by his environment and reacting accordingly, changing and maturing. Movie Sonic experiences the plot, Game Sonic inflicts himself on the plot
I still don't get how 2000's game!Sonic is a consistent character and the point of Movie! Sonic in Sonic 2 learns to be more responsible. Sonic threw out the movie's leaners in general. It's not perfect, but the way he connects and tries to make up is effective for me as a 2000s Sonic fan. I see your points, though.
I always thought he peaked in Adventure 2 and Sonic X. Once Sonic Colors came around it all went downhill for me. It wasn't until Lost World that I started to actually dislike him. I don't like his portrayal in the first Sonic movie so I skipped the second one, but I love SA2 so I'm going to watch Sonic 3 today. Lastly, he was also really cool in the OVA
I don't think him talking abit more in regular and normal times isn't really an issue let him talk all he want if he's talking to someone or his friends that's not really a problem but...whenever he's fighting something or someone or there are stakes involved this is where he should do the whole ((let his actions do the talking)) thingy and to be fair he wasn't really all that wordy unless when he was interacting with his friends for right reasons that's all.
Im so damn tired of the people who are mad with movie sonic being more childish the difference between movie sonic and prime sonic is that movie sonic IS ITS OWN THING ITS OWN STORY while prime for some reason is cannon contradicting who sonic is being all childish and stuff. As long as a piece of sonic media in general does smth different so it doesn't spit in the face of the main cannon they built up and is likable im fine with it. Boom knuckles isnt cannon, IT IS ITS OWN THING SONIC BOOM IS ITS OWN THING. Modern knuckles however should not been dumbed down, luckily hes better tho today. Also boom knuckles is funny asf so
@@FlipSide2025 it’s a valid critique. movie sonic might be its own thing, but for most of the world (non sonic fans) it’s their first exposure to him. it’s the most popular version of the character. this means that they have an inaccurate idea of what sonic is, and this will inevitably result in sega pandering more towards the movie fans and end up influencing the games
@therandomvideochannel8589 this is a different sonic though, it might not be 1:1 but it doesn't have to be, movie sonic is more focused on growth and u can see him coming into his game counterpart later on more and more. Plus imo hes still a likable character so it doesn't matter
just a quick reminder that everything said in this video is *my* interpretation of sonic's character, i'm primarily just providing my side of the argument and perspective. if your interpretation of sonic is different, or you like a version of sonic i don't, that's totally cool! i've gotten a few kinda hurtful comments (its a vocal minority, for the most part the support has been overwhelming) so i just wanna remind everyone to be respectful. we're talking about a cartoon blue hedgehog here.
also, i should've gone in a bit more detail about sa1 sonic being a natural evolution of the japanese manuals, it's a bit difficult to prove with Sonic alone considering his old character bios aren't in-depth and the times he does talk are minimal (which supports his actions speaking louder than words but still) but you can deduce they were paying attention to that stuff a lot more when you consider other characters, a lot of details of Tails' character came straight from the manuals for example, and later down the line there was an episode of Sonic X that i think clearly took some inspiration from Amy's interest in tarot cards and fortune telling and the sort.
also there's some good stuff for sonic's character in movie 3 but i refrained from mentioning it for spoiler reasons (also i wrote the script before movie 3 came out and forgot when i was editing. so oops.)
got yourself a new sub bro :D Happy holidays :) God bless ya and Jesus loves ya!
Sonic indeed is the way he should in sonic x
This isnt your interpretation its literally the lore accurate depiction of sonic
We need more japanese media and writers
Ian flynn cooked in frontiers tho he made sonic more actions over words and thats who he is
Now all we need is to have sonic sleep on tails roof and we have true sonic back
Your thoughts on frontiers sonic is exactly my thoughts too, he is way more accurate to who Sonic was before colors but they don’t just IGNORE his characterization in the 2010s and give a little mix of the 2 which I think works perfectly, it’s like what they did with tails and his arc in frontiers acknowledge the characterization flaws and refine and fix them. frontiers Sonic and Ian’s writing works really well IMO and amazing job on this video!
I definitely think them bringing in Ian Flynn helped a lot, he has nearly 20 years of experience writing the character. I'm sure that his help with Frontiers did help a lot with that!
Imo they just need to bring unleashed/black knight sonic thats my favorite and maybe I'm biased but thats what I think of when I think of his personality but I do agree with what your saying
i think movie sonic being the way he is is just an artifact of the time, honestly. i don't mind him inherently but you can really tell he was initially written at a time when the series itself was just deemed as a relic of its time and kind of a massive joke.
a shame they left out the "I took nine million steps today!" line from the first movie though. i love that so much.
also i know you didn't discuss the DiC cartoons too in-depth but i adore how Sonic in Adventures refers to the viewers as his "pals". i think that helps make him my favorite of the three versions of the guy that they churned out.
4:50 As a matter of fact, Sonic makes a total of 2 jokes IN THE WHOLE GAME.
In later titles, also written by Shiro Maekawa, Sonic barely makes any jokes, yet a lot of people think he does and compare Sonic to someone like spider-man.
Sonic is just a chill guy (not intended) and speaks with actions not with his mouth.
This makes sense as Classic Sonic Never spoke in generations; as if he's a silent cartoon character.
@DrMecha Classic Sonic does talk. There are literally lines that Sonic says that we're put in the manuals. They even gave him a voice in Sonic CD, and Sonic has a voice in the OVA too.
They didn't want Sonic to be a quiet character. They just couldn't give him a voice because of the hardware limitations at the time. He just spoke whenever he needed to. That is true for the 2000s games. He didn't run his mouth a lot, he just says things like "ok" "sure thing" "pretty cool" "let's go then" or things that actually add to the conversation.
@@Nickika I was more or less refering to Generations. Of course he speaks in the japan during the 90s, especially with SEGASonic Arcade games. Though you're right that Generations more or less represent the limitation of the OG MegaDrive.
@@Nickika he also talks in the IDW comics which are part of mainline now
@@lighttium thankfully they reduced that to an extent post issue 50 although aside from his speeches i think the reason why normally like in regular times he talks abit more is because...they are in a comic format and characters need to talk or some form of conversations here and there because comics aren't as effective as other medias like movies,shows and games but they seriously needed to tone down that monoluging and speeches.
Movie 3 Sonic opting to not side with the GUN and figure out the shadow conflict himself (alongside Tails/Knuckles) after the Chao Garden scene felt VERY Sonicy. I was so happy to see Sonic thinking for himself instead of blindly siding with GUN
he's still not even close to being the same character (like the whole scene of wanting revenge on shadow for critically injuring Tom). however, im of the belief he's "growing into" the sonic we know and love, esp with movie 3 showing that sonic is going to take Tom's advice of following his heart in the future (which is what game sonic is all about). I know he's currently not Sonic, but he's trying his best and I can't help but love movie sonic for doing that
I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THAT ACTUALLY THAT PART *DID* STRIKE ME AS VERY SONIC-LIKE i probably would've mentioned that if i didnt write the script before the movie came out.
funny thing there was a part of the script at one point where i sorta predicted what might happen bc originally i was gonna upload this before movie 3 came out and i pretty much guessed sonic was gonna turn against GUN once he found out more of what was going on and i was like "that'd be cool and feel sonic-y" but somehow when that Literally Happened i forgot to put it in the damn script
@ wow
An interesting note on Movie Sonic's characterisation is that even if they wanted to make him more "accurate", they most likely couldn't because Sonic is a relatively static character. Big films in general tend to avoid static main characters, as they want their main character to always go on an arc. A good example is when Dreamworks helped make Wallace & Gromit: Curse of the Were-Rabbit, they were really confused that no character learns a lesson or grows, and they wanted to change the characters to fit that mold.
This would necessitate giving Sonic a lot of flaws that he can learn from for an entire franchise, and that's what movie Sonic is. I love the W&G films, so I do think films with Sonic as a static character could work and be amazing, but it just doesn't seem like something that Hollywood would want to try.
@Paul_Recall This is certified Surf Dracula moment
This is so real
Except he seems to be statically immature and childish in all three films rather than looking more serious, clever and cooler. These flaws don't seem to be progressing anywhere to the Sonic we know and love.
1:20 To add to this, allegedly, it was encouraged across regions to make their own changes and additions to their "Sonic Bible" to better market to said region. It's why even say Fleetway was so different to Archie even though they share similar ideas.
@@MrBee8000 fleetway is actually consistent with the general idea of Sonic, Sonic was supposed to be this cocky confident guy who didnt follow the rules and fleetway follows that to a T
The problem, it's the british interpretation of what a cocky overconfident person is so you can see where fleetway Sonic came from
@carso1500 That's why I said allegedly. I forgot the exact details but that was effectively what was said. One of the things that came up was the American and UK variants of the "Sonic Bible" were pretty much the same thing. They mostly differed because they were altered by said regions, with the UK sticking more to it while the US and Archie went and mostly scrapped it in favor of making their own original stuff. It's probably more complicated but that's my understanding of it :/
@@MrBee8000you are 100% right
On the early days sega allowed each region to make with the franchise whatever they liked becsuse they wanted Sonic to feel like a homegrown product not an import product, so they allowed esch region to interpret it whoever they wanted within some guidelines and that is how all the different versions of the character were born
After sonic adventure came out sega has been trying to unify the entire franchise but it took them a while and even after all other divergent versions of the character were eliminated is not like they completely ignore everything that was writen for those canons, I mean the main writer of she archie comics is now the main writer for the games
I just want to add to this that there is one singular moment in Colors where Sonic does act like himself. Right before the final boss, without saying a single word, Sonic pushes Tails into the escape elevator and activates it despite Tails' protest in order to get his friend safely back to Earth since Sonic knows that after this fight with Eggman that the interstellar amusement park is going to come down around him and doesn't want to risk them both not being able to make it out.
@@vegetafan9922 I agree.
“Yes Japanese Sonic X is my favorite version of Sonic’s character, how did you know?”
SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT.
Not even bringing up X, Jun’ichi’s Sonic as a whole is almost perfectly 1-1 in every iteration the dude voiced the rat in (shows included like with X and Prime) for the last 26 years because the JP Localization of later games rewrite some dialogue that better match how he was written prior to Free Riders due to the games being written in the US first 2010s onwards opposed to SA1-SATBK.
Finding someone who actually knows the JP version of Sonic is like finding a 4 leaf clover.
Edit: Helps that Jun’ichi is THE ACTUAL GOAT. People barely bring him up when it comes to Sonic voices (understandable given he’s a Japanese man voicing a Japanese Rat who occasionally speaks fluent English on occasion), but he imo IS Sonic. He’s voiced him way longer than anyone, has a perfect range for flip flopping between cocky, and sincere, (and in some instances full on DBZ yelling like SATSR, X, and Frontiers) as well as the fact he’s given the scripts that better fit the character (and in the case of 1998-2009; barring Rivals 1/2, ARE the scripts for the character).
I thought playing the games with japanese voices was more common.
In Europe it tends to be common due to animes' success, which Sonic was kinda like that at the time in terms of presentation and writing.
When I played the games, I always switched the voices to japanese at any given time and I even watched Sonic X with fansubs before it aired in Italy with that abysmal 4kids' adaptation.
Yeah, I was really that hyped about Sonic to push myself through that.
@@StellaFangX I used to play Sonic in English (4kids era). But with games like Generations, I switched it in Japanese because of the awful tone change in reception to the fanchise reception in the west and Sega's response. But with newer more serious and story focused stuff like Frontiers and Shadow Gens with Ian Flynn, and the VA's actually recieveing voice direction, I now put it back in English.
yeah it's nice to see people who appreciate X Sonic's characterisation. Sure, the story in Sonic X sucks in some places but the characterisation (besides Amy, she can be childish sometimes but not just straight up blind and helpless without Sonic) is something they succeeded in. The 2010s had more teamwork (??) which is good but you gotta remember that Sonic is perfectly capable of doing things himself.
ok idk what the point im trying to make is lmao
Whenever I watch playthroughs of games, I repeatedly think "no way this is sonic bruh" everytime he utters a word which is really funny honestly but ok
@@worldtravels7187 What makes you say they didn’t succeed with Amy’s characterization? She seemed like her game counterpart to me-somewhat childish but also steps in to do the right thing. She took care of/protected the human kids when they needed someone to.
@zigzagintrusion I like some aspects of her character but all she does is follow Sonic around for most of the time she's on screen. Even episodes centering around her tied back to Sonic in some way (e.g, that beach episode, her date with Sam Speed). Don't get me wrong, I have nothing wrong with Sonamy, it's one of my favourite ships, actually, but making the relationship unbalanced (Sonic clearly has affection for Amy, shown in the last episode of Season 2 but not enough for it to be a healthy relationship) isn't fun to watch. A reason why I like Modern Amy is because she bounces off of Sonic so well (I'm aware that the Sonic I'm talking about in question isn't the same variant but my point is still valid) - she's just extremely sassy and I love her for that. Of course, you're entitled to have your own opinion but I just didn't like her portrayal that much in Sonic X
Movie Sonic usually gets the "he is a child" and or "this is supposed to be pre heroic sonic" who grows into the game hero. LIke he is inexperienced and childish.
@@ilyamuromez6412 yeah movie sonic is 20% good, 80% awkward and weird line delivery
Well… yeah, that’s exactly who they established his character to be in that continuity. He has a pretty drastically different background and upbringing compared to his mainline canon counterpart, so it makes sense why his particular quirks and personality don’t align with it.
Three movies in, and it doesn't seem like he's matured at all. So that "he's a child learning angle" just seems like a horrible excuse. Plus, Sonic in games as early in the first game is 13-15. He was still a teen child.
@@UnifiedEntity Again… different upbringing. From what very little know of Sonic in the games, it’s very likely he wasn’t raised by any parents or parental figures (given the fact that he’s apparently homeless). That kind of lifestyle likely forced him to become more self-reliant and self-assured compared to his movie counterpart, who had to keep himself socially isolated following Longclaw’s death in order to keep his powers a secret.
@@geoffreyrichards6079 Then if anything, having lost a parent would make someone more vigilant. But movie Sonic is not. He's very immature all things considered. If this was an animated series on Netflix sure, but this is apparently a massive hit with eyes on Sonic now. This can't be the thing that defines Sonic
I don't know why, but Sonic's specific line in Sonic 3 where he asks Shadow, "Ready to recycle some tin cans?!" was the most in-character he was in the entire film to me. That whole scene gave me chills.
I personally hate how inconsistent Sonic is written.
Sometimes:
He's annoying
Never shuts up
Constant punching bag or complaining
Immature
Insensitive
A jerk to others
Constant quips
Rushes without thinking
Egotistical/conceded
Sonic is suppose to be COOL
Everyone has their own perspective on how Sonic should be, but he was suppose to appeal as a different mascot than the typical characters, one who looked cool and was cool.
People and the internet love to hate on Sonic for everything and whenever they feel he isn't COOL.
Being Cool isn't something you can force, it has be natural, but most importantly it is convey through ACTIONS.
The Perfect Sonic has
-a design that conveys Cool.
-a voice that is clear, beautiful, impactful (as if their voice was a beautiful instrument that could sing and reach everyone)
-a mind that is selfless, free, adventurous, kind, sensitive, empathetic, proud, assertive, leader, confidence, optimistic, positive, smart, strong-willed, brave, friendly, inspiring, righteous
He can be funny
He can be angry
He can be upset
But his personality should stay true to being a Good soul.
Who's actions defines him as a HERO.
I LOVE SONIC THE HEDGEHOG
I just wish he was represented accurately to how he really is.
Rather than appeal to a audience or be written by people who don't understand or love Sonic.
Boom is an exception since that's obviously not taking itself seriously but then when I see anything of Modern Sonic I just want him to shut up lmao
Modern Sonic isn't all bad though. Sometimes, his character works really well (like Sonic Frontiers) and I wouldn't mind if they stay faithful to 2000s Sonic or not but I just want more people to appreciate that type of Sonic instead honestly
@@HOLYVEXZEL So he should be boring
@matthewtartt9422 you need to stay in school. Actually focus.
No one said he should be boring.
@@HOLYVEXZEL lil bro what do you mean "stay in school"??
@@madekillasam1553 I think he meant "read more than two sentences"
You know…they absolutely just turned him into male Rainbow Dash in the 2010’s.
Sonic doesn’t need validation, doesn’t stop for anything, and lacks so much of an ego…
Guess who does?
It kinda makes sense when you think about it, she is basically the closest analog at the time.
Sonic after being tortured for six months straight: Well, that just happened!
As of sonic 3 (SPOILERS MAYBE) i think sonics arc of learning to be more of a team member and hero is in full force. He’s not going to be like game sonic or x sonic or ova, because he isn’t. He is his own character and actually a child rn, and we are seeing a kid grow up and learn from his mistakes. For example the carjacking going wrong in movie 2 proves like oh wait he’s got powers but isn’t right there yet. He has anger but is strong enough to stop himself in movie 3, as well as going off on his own, learning to be a team member. Theres problems with the character sure, but its his evolution and i really like that we don’t just get fully competent and mature sonic right away. We have to watch his lessons become reality and how he reacts to it. Movie sonic feels reactionary because he is, he sees something he deems wrong and without a hesitation goes to help how he thinks he should just like other sonic adaptations
Funny thing. Sonic's arc in the 3rd movie is making the same mistake 3 times - running off without his friends and then saying he's sorry. After being rescued 3 times in a row by either Tails or Knuckles all he did was apologize a bit harder. That's some BoJack Horseman level of toxic patterns honestly.
honestly all i need from sonic as a character is to keep the original attitude while having his experience shown from his decisions not from how he act. Like how frontiers sonic decide to not lose cool infront his friends from corruption even if it hurts him through out 4 islands while still giving comfort and hope for his friends to be saved.
He did lose his cool a few times in frontiers what are you talking about? Well... atleast towards amy particular the moment he sees amy he get all somber amd sad and lose his cool and confidence in that moment until! He get her out and all confident again he's a mixed bag in Kronos island.
At one point you even see him opening up to amy too but i suppose this develop their relationship aswell after years of cat-mouse dynamic chase.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xto be fair sonic doesn't even know amy can see through that thing but yeah the only time sonic lose his cool is when he assumed no one seeing and the rhea island climax. my fav part about amy arc, shes always help others but never tried to look after herself first before the others despite acknowledging she also a victim until sonic points it out he worried about her too. She needs to love herself first to be able to share it. Idk if its unintentional but i love that little development sonic gave to amy. There is so many small moments that speaks louder in frontiers that i feel like overlooked cuz paying more attention about what they should've done rather than what they trying to do by its own merit.
@@mio3199 i really like sonic and amy's relationship in frontiers it's wholesome they really acted like a married couple or boyfriend and girlfriend (pun intended).
It's like sonic telling how much he care about his friends while showing it in action aswell that's very good if you ask me proving ian flynn can write sonic just fine..if he stop making sonic yap alot in IDW!! Like Jesus Christ he's really wordy and it peaks at issue 50.
Like ian is really weird like in IDW he writes sonic talking alot (although that's not the only problem) and then you go to frontiers and his writing for sonic there the difference in quality is day and night!! He's less talkative etc...idk if ian took the criticism about sonic talking alot and corrected this criticism because if that's the case it makes sense but still i think there's still alot more room for improvement and luckily his characterization did improved quite abit post issue 50.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1xprob cuz sega and sonic team involved in writing of the games while ian have more freedom in comic. I want to see how hes gonna write the DC crossover comic, that would be interesting lol.
@@mio3199 i mean you could say that.. because of sega and Sonic team's involvement but they also have some involvement and quality control over the IDW comics aswell why they didn't stop ian writing sonic so preachy back then? Which means he had some wiggle room writing sonic's character with his own narrative he just had to stay true to the bounds of the character so he doesn't become unrecognizable i mean heck he wrote most of the script like the dialogues the story itself just abit including NPC dialogues but not without some restrictions too particular but i would argue he has more freedom than pontac and graff he probably took the criticism about sonic is preachy and corrected it because at some point he did acknowledged his error in his bumblekast podcast.
I would say this, he's inconsistent because of the SEGA adapting the brand for the appeal of each regions. Namely, the international branch never attempted to allow the original Japanese Staff to have oversight on the licensive nor do they implement the original vision of the characters. Basically, despite some adaptational deviations like with Sonic X and the OVAs, they have full control of what Sonic the Hedgehog would be portrayed as; Hell, they even gave Sonic a Family for the line of Grade school comics (wonder if or when they'll bring that up again).
The Point is, the inconsistencies were a result of the lack of control from the Japanese staff over the localization; from the early 1990s to mid 2010s. He was different across each regions (subtle but noticeable), and that's because SEGA allows both the localizers to modify him for appeal to that region. Also note that Ian Flynn, and subsequently all overseas writers of said games, have to collaborate and answer to the Japanese staff by obligation now that they have full control of the series.
now there's seems to be some control and focus for the characterizations when it comes to idw but they still have some wiggle room though that's why it's consistent these days like the comic has diffrent writers but the characters still consistent it's because there's some quality control involved and has some specific guidelines and some restrictions(even though they are not really heavy) for the characters to work with so that's why the characters are consistent more or less in IDW although it's not perfect...and you know why for number if reasons.
@@JakeThehedgehog-m1x
Shame that most of the writers at IDW Sonic Branch were either influence by or worked for Archie Comics; there's no way Sonic Team can undo that bias.
@@DrMecha i mean... obviously it's only natural some of the archie DNA passed to sonic IDW because they are the same writers from archie heck even some of the artists from Archie are also here in IDW aswell but overall i don't really bad I would say the majority of the characterizations are pretty solid actually! shadow(Urban warefare),sonic(sometimes if he's not in the philosophy and morality panel area),amy,tails,knuckles, chaotix, silver,blaze, rouge,cream etc also what bias you are talking about exactly? I'm confused.
@@DrMecha good thing archie was peak and had the best verion of sonic
@@DrMechathat is inevitable but its not like sega was ever against introducing elements from other canons like archie into the main continuity
Like black knight that is usually considered one of the best writen Sonic's and the last game Shiro Maekawa wrote is also the game that introduced chilidogs as Sonic's favorite food, an element that was first introduced in archie and now is a fundamental part of his characterization
And with Ian Flynn at the helm of the mainline series I imagine that more elements will get mixed here and there, all with the approval of sega and sonic team of course
6:45 I'm not a fan of colors writing but it does have one good moment at the end where tails is saying he's unsure about beating the wisp armor and sonic just pushes him into the pod
It's his second time too; he just loves his brother but doesn't think to explain how he's trying to save him.
That's true i did like the moment he saved tails but.. that's about it.
I feel that what helps to separate a different iteration of a character is by establishing their different setups. With the mainline canon Sonic, his background is incredibly vague (practically nonexistent), so his line of thinking and spontaneous actions are just as nebulous. With alternate continuities like the movies, the pre-reboot Archie comics, and the ‘90s cartoons, we get different versions of his upbringing and background, which lend themselves to how his characterization is portrayed.
For example, in the pre-reboot Archie comics (as well as SatAM and Underground), Sonic was mostly raised by his Uncle Chuck, who had to balance his profession as a scientist with caring for his nephew, which ultimately resulted in Sonic becoming more attention-seeking and egotistical when his uncle’s attention was focused elsewhere.
With the Paramount Sonic being a mere kid who got stranded on Earth for his wellbeing, he pretty much spent his whole life observing people in isolation and obsessing over pop-culture as a means of helping him cope with his loneliness. It explains why he comes across as more awkward and insecure compared to his mainline counterpart.
Bring back Jason Griffith’s characterization and voice of Sonic and we’ll be back to peak Sonic.
I absolutely ADORE the racing scenario. Like, Sonic naturally doesn’t care for races and fair, physical competition on the grounds that he’s the fastest and most acrobatically capable guy he knows and that dulls the ideas that everyone else shares. Throw EGGMAN into the mix, a guy who absolutely will trash the event and make it anywhere from unfair to unbeatable purely for his own egomaniacal reasons? Sonic’s in there without a second word. Sonic punishes Eggman for his misdeeds and still doesn’t like him, but Eggman still makes Sonic’s life more interesting and throws bigger challenges his way throughout his adventures, and Sonic absolutely appreciates that.
Even in Sonic 06, Shadow in his super form speaks about Solaris, the super-dimensional being he, Sonic, and Silver are confronting, and remarks that this might actually be a *fair* fight. And seeing as Shadow’s meant to be a more damaged mirror image of Sonic, that speaks volumes to *Sonic* as a character. Sonic has proven between 1998 and 2009 that he can and will fight gods and elemental deities purely for the fun of it if nothing else.
12:40 I snickered
The thing you mentioned about Shadow Generations being a collaboration between Ian Flynn and Sega of Japan is interesting, because that's pretty much what Sonic Forces was; even more so, I think! Its story was written in Japanese, then rewritten in English, then localized in Japanese. That might explain why Sonic's characterization got much closer to how it was in the 2000's! And from what I know of Shadow Generations, Ian Flynn was actually much more of a standalone writer for it (even though I'm sure having a solid vision and direction for the game helped everyone immensely), so if a collaborative effort in the Pontaff era gave us Forces Sonic, I'm optimistic with Flynn (if we ever get that)!
On the Forces topic, tbh I think Sonic being literally tortured and not feeling it might be going a bit too far. But either way, I don't really think it works in the game, since Forces already has trouble selling its setting in general. The problem of "how do you sell a serious situation through the eyes of someone who doesn't feel its seriousness?" is actually an interesting question imo, but in the case of Forces, I don't even know if you properly get to ask that question, because it just becomes another instance of the story struggling with its tone.
On the movies topic, I... haven't watch them yet, but I agree with your general points. These movies are getting really popular, especially movie 3, and they'll be a lot of kids' introduction to the world of Sonic. If Sonic really is that starkly different, it'll be... weird, at least. I can imagine the kids watching the movies actually growing up to love that version of Sonic; and if the Sonic they find in the games is closer to how he is in the 2000's, would they really be wrong in not wanting that? Are we going to see the movies' influence making its way into the games as the people who grew up with the movies start getting into other aspects of the franchise? I hope the opposite happens, but I don't know if I can really judge.
Nice video as usual!! c:
(Side note, I like treating Pontaff Sonic like a side thing like Boom and I think I found that there's something surprisingly delightful about him like that. He is so very stupid (affectionate). He constantly acts like he owns the place. Only about a quarter of his jokes land and the rest of them remind you he's fifteen years old. Idk maybe I'll rewatch the cutscenes from the 2010's and change my mind but for now I'm having fun)
Nothing wrong with liking the Pontaff era Sonic. I don’t hate that depiction of the character, I just don’t like how he rarely takes the situation at hand with any sense of urgency or seriousness. In Forces, it is said that he gets tortured for well over a year and is pretty much on death row, yet when the original player character bails him out, he looks fine and has an atitude that screams, “This is just another Tuesday for me!”
If this were the Dreamcast, 4kids, or heck even classic Sonic, he would be beyond ticked off and have a real axe to grind. Eggman will not be sleeping soundly unless he flees the planet.
I don’t mind Sonic cracking a joke now and again but in Colors - Forces, he would not stop. Green Hill is looking a lot more like Sand hill now? Sonic! A place you frequently roam has just turned into a desolate landscape! Who knows how many plants, animals, or ecosystems were harmed in the process. Why are you joking about this? If Sonic, the protagonist, does not seem to care about what is happening, then why should I?
Part of me wants to see what the 2010’s games would be like if they had more closely stuck to the dialogue from the Japanese scripts. From what I hear, the dialogue has stayed pretty consistent and Sonic has had the same voice since Adventure 1 if I’m not mistaken. Generations was a lot more bearable for me thanks to the rewritten dialogue for the remaster. Shadow Generations was amazing. If they can keep this trend going, I think the series will be in the best place it has been since the early 2000’s.
@AnotherLikeADragonFan2019 many things about this paragraph are just....wrong.
Even if Sonic is being neaten and is on *"Death row"* He's not smiling because he's ignorant. He fully grasps what just happened,he's just not gonna let that get to him because what will that achieve??? He's just waiting to get out so he can stop eggman.
The *"Sand hill"* joke is not very Sonjc like yes, i agree... but then you went on to question why he's not taking the scenario about Green Hill being turned to sand.
1st, again, he's focusing on making it to where Tails has asked him to join him and stop Eggman.... which, tbh is kinda not how you write a sonic story to begin with. Sonic doesn't stop eggman because he's told to, regardless if it's his friends asking him. He's minding his own business until eggman crosses his path or he himself makes it his mission to see him.
Also, I'm not sure where you got that he frequently roams green hill as if that's his home.
Well they will probably just see movie Sonic as a younger version of the character and the games as a more mature version.
@@ataladin87 I guess I can elaborate on some of my points to be more clear. Firstly, I never said anything about Sonic being ignorant. Ignorance would imply that he is unaware of the situation surrounding him. Being ignorant and not taking a situation seriously are two completely different things. Even then, I can buy the idea of Sonic not letting things get to him if he had only been captured for a few weeks, but after supposedly being tortured frequently, having to watch Eggman take over almost the entire planet, and not having any contact with his friends or the outside world, I think even someone as optimistic as Sonic would be at their breaking point. At the very least, he would drop the jokes and get serious. Sonic was never really a wisecracking jokester. That really only became a thing starting with Colors. Sonic is not Deadpool. That’s not even a fair comparison because even Deadpool would take the situation more seriously than Forces Sonic.
Also, remember that the resistance only learned that Sonic was alive once his execution date was near. As far as Sonic knows, no one is coming for him. How exactly would he be waiting to get out so he can stop Eggman?
Sonic’s not gonna let that get to him because what would that achieve? No. Sonic has absolutely let things get to him in the past. Just look at SA2. He responds to Shadow’s rude comments with “I’ll make you eat those words!” Look how Sonic acts during the end of Secret Rings or Black Knight. He slays Arthur with a sword and throws Erazor Djinn in a pit of lava. Both villains did a lot less than what Eggman has done throughout the series.
I am aware of the instructions Tails gave him, but that still does not give Sonic an excuse to joke about the situation. I will give you the point in Green Hill as I worded that a little strange. I was not saying that Sonic lived in Green Hill, but from the fact that it is the most reoccurring level area across the series, it is clear that the place holds significance to Sonic’s character. So why on Earth would someone joke about seeing the desolate remains of a place that once held many memories?
Nah...i don't think movie sonic's characterization is gonna affect game sonic's characterization they are fundamentally different! Game sonic seem like a more matured version compare to game sonic so it's not like they are gonna regress him to become childish like i don't think they would even do something like that i don't think they are thats stupid they only take some inspirations and references from the movies like the whole power boost thingy from frontiers is actually came from the games originally.
Girl that is one GREAT video that was needed. Thank you. My Twitter tl made me think I was going crazy.
So it wasn't just me who felt the sonic of today is the mixture of both 2000's and 2010's like that's the vibe I'm getting from current modern sonic
It's like ian taking elements from both 2000's and 2010's and balancing it out in a way
And the reason he's doing this isn't he's trying to ruin the character.
He has the tendency of respecting the continuity in general doesn't matter what series is he actually did that before whenhe joined archie respecting the continuity and tge materials penders left behind and work with them
And now he's doing the same thing for the games aswell he's actually acknowledging the events of 2010's games not actively ignoring them to make some form of consistency and continuity here which is something he did that ik frontiers.
If you ask me that's one of his biggest strength in writing even though that's something he gets clowned on for but if you ask me the ability to work in a pre-existing continuity is definitely a skill which is something he's doing that for the games too and that's explains why sonic is the way he's written nowadays mixture of both(2000's and 2010's) athough there are some elements from archie sonic aswell i'm ngl..
Great video, echoed most of my thoughts exactly! It's frustrating as a long time fan to see Sonic's mainstream perception dragged through the mud for so long. For most of the general public, Sonic is an egotistical, quippy and childish character meant to appeal solely to children. That's how Sega seems to want people to see him as too.
Despite this, it's his old characterization that still draws in fans and gives Sonic a legacy. There's a reason that Sonic's most popular media among hardcore fans are games and tv shows that came out 15 - 20 years ago. That version of the character was what made him a viable icon, and if he had started out as his current incarnation that Sega tries to push so hard, I really don't think he ever would have been as popular or beloved.
I feel like Frontiers/IDW Sonic is doing what Ian Flynn usually does; fixing the past whilst not discarding it entirely.
Like when he took over as head writer of the archie comics from Ken Penders, he didn’t just throw out everything he didn’t agree with, but instead choose to adapt and evolve it.
And now I think he’s doing the same thing with the Sonic games as a whole. Like you said in the video, everything Colours to Forces still happened, and whether we like that past material or not, Ian tries to respect that legacy as best as possible whilst moving things forward, which was pretty much the entire point of the story of Frontiers.
So I do agree that present-day Sonic is likely a mix of his different game characterisations. Old Sonic as he truly knew him is gone, but that’s not a bad thing, because new Sonic has a lot to like too.
I definitely agree with your critiques of sonic's characterization in the movies. He feel to juvenile and try hard though that's not to say he doesn't have good moments. I'm also in agreement that he's way too quippy(though these days it feels like writers can't tell the differences between making quips and just constantly talking) though it does seem they are making improvements to how they potray sonic. Though sometimes I find myself wondering if it would have been better if they stuck (at least I heard this was the original plan) to having sonic go home at the end of the first one.
Almost everyone goes through different phases in life. Maybe Sonic has that too. You also have to realize that there are different writers, which could mean different Sonics altogether.
The Sonic-Verse.
Maybe a hot take, but I've always thought that something seemed.... kind of off about Sonic's personality during the dark age.
In the games where he has a "brand new BFF (Elise, Shara, Chip, Merlina) he just kind of seems like a motivational speech Spewer. Like he's just there to give comforting words to these new characters, and he just comes across as a tad dull.
I liked how in Frontiers, he comforts his friends, but it just feels more in character for me. He tells Knuckles that his friends are always there for him, but jokingly calls him Knuckle Head. He tells Tails that he's proud of how far he's come, and when Tails jokes that he's surpassed Sonic, Sonic says "Yeah, don't push it!" I love that. I think it helps that it's a genuine connection between two characters that I enjoy, instead of Sonic "bonding" with this character who will never be seen, heard of, or mentioned ever again.
@@bowmaj8666 Yeah, I feel the same way about the Dark Age games. Some of them (like the Storybook games) gives Sonic a personality, but the majority of the games from that era have a Sonic that feels flat. I know it's more accurate to the Japanese Sonic, but it's so nonexistent I have trouble liking those stories, especially with the Rush duology. I prefer it when Sonic has a bit of snark to him. It just makes him feel more colorful.
@macp9315 I'm glad that someone gets it. Practically whenever I mention this, I always get bombarded with hate.
Yeah, I felt the same way about the Rush series.
@@macp9315 I'm not going to lie, but I've really been enjoying the movie versions of these characters. For starters, Sonic is flawed, he can make mistakes, but he ultimately learns from them and grows as a character. Now I'm obviously aware that game media and film media are different, but I still find myself way more invested in the movie version over the game version which is this perfect, flawless being that everybody gushes over. It's just getting old.
You know.... When I look back at 06 and Unleashed (and I loved Unleashed) I can agree with what you just stated. But I guess it didn't bother me because as a kid, it didn't make Sonic less cool to me and I liked how he took the situation serious.
Unleashed also gave us that perfect intro when he's attacking Eggman ship and says "I'll keep messing up your toys" in such a snarky way that it hit that "this is Sonic nerve".
But basically it wasn't enough to annoy me. BUT WHAT WOULD have annoyed me is if I played Sonic Colors with the corny jokes.
Frontiers and IDW Sonic are a damn good step in the right direction.
Movie Sonic, I cant agree with you at all. All I see is Paramount trying to create an MCU humor, silly, immature wannabe of the Sonic we know who barely has that coolness to him. The excuse people make where "he's just a kid, he's going to grow and mature as he gets experience". Tails is a kid, and he's not immature. Hell they depict him VERY well to his game counterparts. Sonic hasn't changed throughout these movies. He's still silly, dare I say clumsy, hyperactive like a Saturday morning cartoon character for 3 year olds, and like I said attempting to quip like an MCU character. He's not progressing into the Sonic we know. Which ticks me off more than anything. This is their "static" Sonic.
@@UnifiedEntity To be fair though, the only reason that they changed it in Sonic Colours is because people complained about how everything was "too edgy and emo for a series about a cartoon hedgehog with gloved hands!" It's like as soon as one set of fans start complaining, Sega responds and changes things, only for another set of fans to start complaining that they should change it back.
I feel like the confident, cocky and smart alecky nature is what makes Sonic who he is. I honestly don't care if he cracks a few corny jokes, just as long as it doesn't interfere with the more serious scenes. The scene in Frontiers where Sonic is about to crack a joke to a melancholy looking Knuckles, but decides not to, is hands down one of my favourite Sonic moments in years. It showcases that he can be kind to his friends and genuinely cares about them, but not in a way that makes him sound boring or like he's just quoting a motivational poster.
You are the first person ever to talk positive about forces
I honestly agreed with much of this video. Especially when it comes to Frontiers.
That's what turned me off of Frontiers. It was TRYING to be a 2000s game but lacked the heart, soul, and sincerity the 2000s games had, and unfortunately, Flynn trying to compromise with throwing 2010s vibes in the mix is part of the issue.
Like you said, they're trying to bridge the gap, when in reality, no one except 2010s fans would give a flip about that era. Most of us just want Sonic back to acting like he's supposed to. Heck, I've seen a lot of people say that they just need to retcon it and move on.
Don't get me wrong, I see the logic in trying not to rub 2010s fans the wrong way, but still.
But yeah, your video is spot on. Sonic was consistent until 2010. People saying otherwise is just a gaslighting lie people want to peddle to justify the constant chaos.
7:30 In japan, Sonic was still characterized the same as the 2000s, so this was a decision made specifically for the west
8:28 The only reason why Sonic is more accurate is because the story was originally written by Japanese writers.
9:32 And the Shadow story was not purely written by Ian. It was a collaboration with the Japanese writers and actually had more in the say of the story than Ian.
11:05 I have also watched many of Ian's Q&As and in one of them around 2022 he said that his writtinf is similar to Pontac and Graf's writing, but there are like hundreds of those Q&As and finding that would be impossible even I have tried to find it to prove my point so take that with a grain of salt
And I also do care to much about this fucking blue rat, WHEN WILL WE BE LIFTED OFF THIS PUNISHMENT!
y'know i *really* should've mentioned that the japanese titles had characterization more consistent with the 2000s games even post-colours because i DID know that, i just didn't think to mention it. i didn't know forces was done originally by Japanese writers though. and i mention shadow gens being a collaboration between the jp writers and ian flynn at 13:05
I think he's the same from day one in Japan, especially since the creators have more or less of an impact there than overseas where SEGA allows licensors to do whatever they want with the character with the games as the base material. It all boils down to the International Handling of the Brand, he's inconsistent around the world, not within the games themselves. He could be Felix in one region and Bart in another, all to appeal to the broad audience of that region.
@DrMecha And another thing people don't talk about is that Japan's culture is built on respect, which also includes respect for the creators of the material they work on, is the reason why the Japanese side is often more respectful of the original side of Sonic.
@@Nickika Well, they're the one who made him; so of course their culture flew over the heads of the localizers.
for shadow generations i would say ian definitely had more creative freedom this time but you are right it was a collabrative work between ian flynn,sega of japan(which they control the narrative for the games these days) and the official lore team.
12:31 To be fair to the voice sounding like that, i interpreted it as him being tired the entire time since he landed on that island. even his animation was tired no matter how many rings you had. buuut thats for that island in particular
see i'd get that if he didn't sound like this for the whole game, i just think the games voice direction sucks 😭
@@autumn7 that'sd fair that's fair. i think i was happy to hear a sonic i didn't want to toss into a lake after so long that i sorta forgave a lot of it xD (i also like the lower tone too.)
@@autumn7 side note, i def see what you meant with generations sounding like he was going on a diet from the jokes lmao.
I think Sonic Frontiers Sonic definitely feels like he is like the oldest sounding Sonic ngl. Sonic rn feels like he became older and is phasing out what made him free and cool.
I like to characterize Sonic when he was younger (in the classic days) as someone that really was at his most independent. He doesn’t get heavily invested in people himself, but he helps whenever he can.
While Sonic right now feels like he’s on the border of being people’s cool uncle. The vibes of Sonic really do make Sonic feel like he’s that cool co-worker that likes to hang out. He’s cool in the way of being nice and helpful nowadays.
I think to make an easier distinction. Frontiers Sonic feels like he’s Nathan Drake from Uncharted 4, he’s old, slightly tired, but still wants adventure.
He sounds less energetic and feels like he does stuff because he always do. I feel like it’s a thing of Sonic Team writing game Sonic like an icon to look up to and not a symbol of freedom.
Cool is subjective
@@matthewtartt9422 Plus, what is considered cool is always changing with the natural passage of time
11:29 yo, this is really good explanation and not attack the writter the series, good job
Oh and Also, i agree with the Sonic movies, like i think they have some Sonic moments here and there and Jeff and Tyson care, but i think movie Sonic has some moments, specially how he inspires knuckles or shadow to do the right thing.
But Also the Guy is clearly just made to appeal to children more than Sonic fans.
Like, you can Tell with him having an origin (except his powers) but tails, knuckles and shadow, even with a few changes are kinda like the games
10:00 i hate this
This sounds like something archie or movie sonic would say, game sonic wouldnt be so egotistical, he genuinely doesnt care if hes awsome or not
Was Sonic’s character always inconsistent?
Mephiles the dark: The answer is yes AND no.
Realistically, that’s just what happens when a character gets passed around several writers without a mediator to check for consistency. SEGA didn’t care for twenty plus years, and now they are paying for it. The real problem is that SEGA has dug themselves in a hole by insisting on every Sonic game being canon. The only way that makes sense given all of Sonic’s changes in characterization over the years is that he has some sort of extreme disassociation problem. I don’t mind the change in characterization from Forces to Frontiers, in fact I welcome it as a return to form, but it is still a bit jarring to jump from jokey hipster Sonic, to heroic anime protagonist Sonic in no time flat.
The only way I can see them spinning it is if they give Sonic some kind of character redemption arc. Basically Sonic’s character arc in the Sonic Prime cartoon but done in a game and written better. It will never happen, but I would like a hypothetical Sonic game where his character changes and evolves as the player goes through the story. The gist would be that after foiling Eggman’s schemes and saving the world dozens of times, Sonic has grown egotistical and overconfident. He never takes anything seriously and jokes around all the time like Sonic in the Colors - Forces era. But then something bad happens and Sonic has to spend the rest of the story getting reacquainted with his more heroic and responsible self. That would be interesting but that would never happen as SEGA is as restrictive of the Sonic character as Disney is with Mickey Mouse.
This made worst with both the localization and the licensing issues around the world; instead of respecting the creators' vision, they mold him to adapt with the pop culture of that region for mass appeal. This is why you have a rude Sonic in europe, and Snarky Sonic in America, and a Brother figure in Japan; it's a marketing strategy and nothing more.
All they have to do is remake sa1, sa2, Sonic Heroes, maybe shadow and 06 too, turn Battle, Secret Rings, and Black Knight into animated spin off OVAs or specials cause they both have great stories but the games themselves are mid and battles setting and shadows story make no sense since the writers of that game had no idea what the context of his return to heroes was gonna be, remaster the advanced, Rush, and riders games, give silver a new origin that has nothing to do with Rivals because Eggman Nega being from the future makes no sense. Get better voice directors. While remaking /remastering all of these games they need to have Flynn and the Japanese writers collaborating to make everything fit together.
I just hope their can be a better integration for the Sonic cast’s characterization. All of them have gone through an “arc” to get them back to their original characters, (besides Amy who didn’t even get her successful arc translated into Sonic Adventure 2 and is now a completely different person) ala Frontiers and now Shadow Gens. But now the issue is that it’s a sudo fan interpretation. Characters like Shadow who had a multi game spanning arc of him literally abandoning his past, now we spent a whole year about his past which defeats the whole idea of shadow moving on form the burden of Maria and Gerald’s wishes onto him. Knuckles learning in frontiers to take a break from guarding the master emerald which he already was…? The whole Tails thing that more need not be said. The unfortunate fact of what people saw Sonic as in the 2010’s is now the norm of Sonic is sad. I do blame UA-camrs for that a lot considering they often tease or just mock the games trying to have a serious tone. There are many other cartoony out there games with serious plots but suddenly when it comes to Sonic he’s a punching bag. I feel the next game that drops should have that tone of seriousness but instead of frontiers and 06 where it’s placed front and center, it should be in the background, while showing us how these characters truly act and where each actually fall into the world. Like how each character is independent of each other all with varying motivations and reasons for participating
Well the 2010's Sonic was Sega's response to how the mass viewed Sonic. As a joke. People and critics saying "Sonic is too serious? what are these big serious anime final fantasy plots? Sonic doesn't need a story. Sonic and his stupid friends." While we as fans liked it to varying degrees. I personally really liked shonen anime-esq Sonic.
So to rejuvenate the brand with the 4kids contracts expiring they took a new approach. With the Pontaff era Sonic and co. Focus on just Sonic, Tails and Eggman. With a more Saturday morning cartoon approach. Sacrificing the cool cheese of the 2000's us fans liked.
So I am so glad that with Flyyn and the success of Frontiers, Shadow Gens, movie 2 and 3, we can get back to somethign similar with the 2000's era Sonic.
I disagree on ur point for Amy & her arc up to SA2 but the rest especially the shadow & knuckles thing u're totally right bout & I hate it. Tho in knuckles case the jp version changed it so that he's MORE committed to his job & will even try to learn more bout his ppl cus he acknowledges he's not done a good job at it. So his case is weird & so is Amy's cus hers is diff too in jp frontiers
It’s so interesting to me to see this shift in Sonic’s character because it aligns well with my own move to relentless irony to shield myself from ridicule. I remeber I used to model my personality after Sonic when I was younger only to be met laughter and ostracization, so as I got older I started to adopt a more ironic approach so when people laugh at me I could feel like I was laughing with them and not being laughed at. Someone else commented saying, Sonic is now “””cool””” and god that hit like a truck. These endless layers of irony keep me and Sega’s current characterization of Sonic safe from ridicule for being too self-serious and becoming a laughing stock. Meanwhile, theses layers of irony are strategically sound as when some of our actions are received as cool or impressive we can fully capitalize on it and purport that was what we’re going for the entire time. Sadly, in that process we’ve both lost our authenticity that made us appealing in the first place and a core apart of ourselves to build the rest of our identity around. Factoring other’s expectations too heavily in how we perceive ours is such a hard thing to overcome and ironically goes against the core of Sonic’s independence and self-assured attitude. Maybe Sega and I should take a page from what made Sonic actually Sonic way back when and use that to inform how we should receive and respond to negativity in the future.
I agree with you about Movie Sonic, he was definitely "Flanderized"
I like the Sonic movies and I am able to vibe with their depiction of Sonic when I turn my brain off but I must admit there were times where movie Sonic's writing felt foreign to me. I couldn't help but feel some kind of culture shock when Sonic called Tom dad in the 2nd film for example. I agree with you on how it may be the films popularity that temps one to be a little more critical of Sonic's characterization. Usually, when I see something I dislike such as Sonic getting kissed back to life or Sally slapping Sonic in front of a large crowd, I don't worry how it'll effect people's perception of Sonic since I know those are niche topics contained within the Sonic fanbase and don't circulate much within general audiences. The Sonic movies on the other hand is THE source material for general audiences so it feels harder to not be disconcerted when I am the only proper Sonic fan in my family and I have to wonder if the films are affecting my older siblings perception on Sonic's character.
@GordanTheToad this is exactly how i feel too. it feels like such a disservice that most of the world will know sonic as a quippy, immature kid that’s still got growing up to do, when game sonic is anything but that. i don’t understand how they managed to adapt every character BUT sonic mostly accurately
THIS is my fear with the Sonic movies. Hell, this is my fear with Sonic Prime as well. Those two pieces of media I would NOT EVER recommend to introduce Sonic as, as they are not the portrayal of a great Sonic. The only character I can say the movies got right was Tails but above all else? Hell no.
Why wouldn't he call him dad? The Sonic of the movie grew up lonely and longed for a family his whole life. After he found one, he expresses that feeling. The Sonic of the game usually lacks a family, so obviously you don't see him having these kinds of interactions. But the Sonic of the movie comes from a different background. In my opinion, it was a good addition that gave depth to his character. His personality in the movie compared to the games is a matter of debate, but the fact that he has a family doesn't detract from that and even benefits the development of his character, especially his relationship with Tom. In the games, he never had a father figure, as far as I understand, so it's clear that he wouldn't have anyone to call "dad." These are two separate things. As I said, regarding the personality itself, yes, there are differences, but the fact that they added a family to him is great in my opinion.
Counterpoint to Sonic being inconsistent, he was never that inconsistent to begin with. If anything he's had a very steady and easy to track growth from his debut all the way up to Black Knight, you can easily map how the character grew and in which ways, which events caused a shift and how he was perceived started to be more dynamic. The 2010s were filled with subpar writing but even that I don't find that hard to contextualize, most of his Meta Era portrayals can be reserved as "He got overly confident and sassy, too comfortable in his own abilities, with a lot of what happened during that time seeming inconsequential to him as a person" and that post-war (post-Forces) he went "Oh shi lemme lock in cause I got complacent a bit".
IDW and Frontiers Sonic are by far the best the character's ever been tho. He's finally a jack of all trades. Not just Adventure Era-esque, not just reminiscent of his 90s, not just Meta Era-esque, he has elements of all 3 eras combined into one. Into THE Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic right now is at his most refined.
Also, I disagree about Frontiers' voice direction. I love, no, adore every single delivery in that game, every single one.
Sonic, a creature that can travel across the world and is obsessed with speed likes to slow down and take in the sights of the world sometimes.
I agree forces, aside from the jokes, wrote him really well, he almost couldve been like 2000s sonic
Sonic doesnt and shoulnt change, which is why him being fine after the torture makes sense, he has an undying spirit
Actually, he was never tortured. Check the japanese script. Sonic was just simply imprisoned for... 6 months was it, and Tails has just been missing.
We need more sonic x and 2000s sonic style
Frontiers seems to be going that way sonic is indeed a “actions over words” he shoudlnt be joking unless its a subtle tease to some enemy or smth
Also YES! Japanese sonic and sonic x is indeed the best how did you know?
I feel like people who liked Sonic back in 2010 didn’t know what kind of character they wanted Sonic to be.
Growing up with at least three different interpretations of Sonic at once in the 90s makes me very resistant to the idea that Sonic has one correct characterization. We knew that Sonic was fast, he smirked, and that he had an attitude. Those three things were the pillars, basically. The cartoons we had varied wildly and so did the interpretations. But the basics were still there so it was always Sonic. The fact that he had no set characterization left a lot to our imagination, and maybe that's why he thrived in the 90s. I started eating chili dogs because Sonic did it in the Adventures series back in the day. He was funny there and was just being a fun character. The Saturday morning show was much darker. Again, because it was up to our imaginations, we couldn't say it wasn't Sonic.
12:42 ngl i think shadow gens got voice direction really well, im expecting frontiers 2 to have 2000s writing and some good vocie direction
Sonic's always been cocky. That's the one consistency.
I’m honestly hoping movie Sonic can evolve into 90s/2000s Sonic as the movies go on. Would love to see an arc of him realizing that, while he loves Tom and Maddie, in his heart he doesn’t want to stay in one place and wants to live freely (which would honestly be a great opportunity for a grown up kid leaving their parents to become an adult type of trope). If we get to explore more planets in future movies I think it’d be a great opportunity to get him to move to and explore the more fantastical locals in the Sonic universe
Ian's Sonic (at least in the comics) is weird in a way that it feels like a chimera of all the different iterations. He makes jabs at his friends like early toon Sonic, he relaxes a lot like the Sonic from Sonic X, he makes the dumb jokes here and there like in the 2010's (It's toned way down but it's still there), he often works with others like in the adventure and gamecube games, he doubts himself like in Unleashed, etc. etc. It's interesting. It feels like every part of Sonic gets a moment to shine.
Sonic should be calm in emotions but active physically
Sonic prime makes sonic look like a kid ngl
And sonic shouldnt yap too much
Hes like the wind btw, no lighting should be there
Someone who gets it. Yes. That's something I love about Sonic. I always felt that the 90s games where he doesn't speak wasn't because they didn't have voice acting, its just how he operates. Sure he will talk, but as you said, more about action.
I think most of this comes down to the way the West treated Sonic very differently to Japan in the early days, basically coming up with their own origin stories (Doctor Robotnik Vs Eggman for example). I do think that it would have been interesting to look at the other Sonic media in more detail in the context of this video. Sonic in the 90s cartoons was very quippy and that was the main exposure for a lot of people in the West outside of the games. You also have the various comics (Archie in the US and Fleetway in the UK) which had their own takes on the character and his history. I know you touched on this in the video, but a lot of this stuff will have influenced peoples perceptions of Sonic's characterisation. The media we had outside of the games was all over the place.
8:10 Pontaff and Graff didn't wrote Forces, they just translated to English. It was written by a japanese writer fron Sonic Team
And they... somehow messed it up through the translation
Leaving this comment before watching the video, absolutely not, Nikki/Sonic, Fleetway and Archie all had the cocky and fast thing, but were all very different characters when giving them more than a passing glance.
16:15 Finally someone is saying what I always wanted to say.
Junichi is the standard for what sonic sounds and is like
We need japanese people doing the voice direction, like in sa1 when picking American voices junichi was there with ryan seeing if he does things right
The thing about Sonic telling jokes is that it doesn't work if he's just talking to thin air, which he often is in the 2010s games.
I like the idea of him being kind of jokey but only in relation to his friends. I like the moment where he makes a pun and Tails laughs it off in a "I can't believe you just said" that way because it shows how comfortable and laid back they are with each other. That's a cool trait to have and cool is at the very core of Sonic's character but it doesn't work if he's just doing it to entertain himself. It makes him seem lonely and out of touch then.
The jokes just work better when we they're used as an avenue to interact with his friends but the 2010's didn't have the luxury of doing that because SEGA heard "Sonic has too many friends" and, as they do, reacted in the most extreme way by cutting everyone but Tails.
It's a real shame to because his friends would all have very different reactions to those kinds of jokes. Imagine Shadow being too high and mighty for Sonic's dumb puns or Big getting genuine laughter from the exact same pun. A lot of jokes might go right over the head of Knuckles or any of the robots.
I feel like a great example of Sonic conforming to general audience misinterpretations of him is his whole “Gotta go fast“ catchphrase. He never directly said the corny, ironically “cool” catchphrase until it was so well associated with him due to memes and 4 kids’ localizations. Now he even says it in the movies which is only gonna further cement its association and might reflexively influence his other characterizations.
Brand homogeneity with the movies and shows is my biggest fear with the franchise and I hope future Sonic games can have the confidence to resist that urge.
While I do think it was good for the purposes of the video to focus on how the games have characterized Sonic, I wouldn’t have left out the rest of the series’ extended media over the years from the conversation. Just as you noted that, due to its popularity, Movie!Sonic’s portrayal has now to a degree become what general audiences think Sonic is, the same can be said for the early Sonic cartoons or comics back in the 90s.
I think a big key to this conversation is that early on Sega had basically let its overseas branches handle Sonic’s portrayal to better appeal to their respective audience. Where Sega of Japan was more focused on targeting a younger audience (as seen with the Shogakukan manga where Sonic is a little hedgehog boy named Nicky living with his family), Sega of America and Europe wanted to hone in on his attitude and coolness to better appeal to their geological demographics (Fleetway, SatAM, Archie, etc). I can go more in depth on this aspect but it’d certainly take up a lot of time lol.
To put it simply, I at least think that the issues from how people view Sonic’s characterization in part stem from the varying interpretations and versions of him we have seen over the years.
I dislike the “different interpretation” argument to defend movie Sonic personally. There is a certain point where it’s no longer just an interpretation, it’s just a bad adaptation. Knuckles and Shadow are clear examples of “different interpretations” while being faithful to the core essence of their characters. Movie Sonic does not feel like Sonic at all to me.
Agree.
I'll just say I respect your opinion but I disagree. I want to rationalize why but I've never been too great at explaining myself in nuanced conversations like this. I like Movie Sonic the way he is and have grown fond of the characters in Paramount's interpretation of the series. It's interesting because I've been a fan of the series since the early 2000's but I've only recently started liking Sonic as a character. Sonic Prime and the movie universe are instances where I actually like Sonic as a character. However, because the fanbase deems these two interpretations too far removed from Sonic's true character I can't really call myself a fan of Sonic can I. I don't know, it just bothers me and I can't find the words to explain why.
@@TheZetoBlade I'd guess it's because those Sonics are depicted more childish, lacking confidence here and there, and needing to develop into the Sonic we all know and love while in the games Sonic doesn't really develop because he's pretty much good to go at all times. Take Sonic Rush for example, Blaze has this whole arc about learning how to trust people and accept help from others while Sonic already knows that and never needed to learn that, the whole thing is just another Tuesday for him. Sonic is fairly static in the games and when the adventure's over, he just moves on going "well that was neat, wonder what's next?" while the rest of the cast tend to learn and grow from the experience.
@@Err0_Will It's the Sonic some fans know and love, I personally never cared for that original interpretation. Movie Sonic is the Sonic I enjoy, and respectfully I don't believe he needs to become game Sonic.
@@TheZetoBlade he's not the sonic i like or even depiction but i do enjoy his character anyway since it's a different continuity and he's actually having some solid character development too that essentially lead to evolve his character i like the character progression he's going through.
@@TheZetoBlade either way, point being that prime and the movies are Sonics that need development and have flaws to work past plus have the benefit of a semiconsistent vision to work with
@@Err0_Will prime sonic doesn't sit right with me anymore because now they said it's canon 💀💀 i was kinda fine with idw because it atleast made some sense and characterizations was way more accurate compared to prime but prime particular nah..
Only in the western side of things. He has a very consistent character in the Japanese side of things up until Colors. Though he was pretty out of character in 06 in general.
I got into Sonic in 2015, and God was that a terrible time to get into the franchise. If it weren't for all the prior games from the 2000s and the Archie comic, I don't think my intense love for the franchise would have stuck.
Japanese Sonic is definitely my favorite version of the character. He's far more consistent as well due to always having the same VA. I've mostly consumed all Sonic media in Japanese for years now, and I love it. Thanks for this amazing video, it was cool seeing someone talk about this!
pretty much same boat here, i got into the series in 2016 after playing cd on mobile 😭 i don't think i'd be a fan of this franchise had i played any of the games that released at the time instead.
I still think Frontiers Sonic is missing a lot of what was captured pre-colors, not just voice direction. But I'll admit that it's a step up. Otherwise I agree on basically everything else as someone who has been around since the Genesis days!
I feel like Game Sonic (mainly Adventure - Black Knight) is a static character. He’s a figure of light who does what he sees as right no matter the cost. He is one of the most inspiring characters to me and I’m still glad I grew up with the Sonic X iteration of his character.
Thus, Movie Sonic is not “my Sonic” but I think he is a fitting Sonic for what they are doing with him. Game Sonic is somewhat hard to write development for since he’s so static, so Movie Sonic being a bit more inexperienced makes more since to me. He seems like a character who is made to grow throughout the films through meaningful character development. This doesn’t mean Game Sonic doesn’t have development, just that he’s usually more of a vehicle to teach morals, while Movie Sonic seems to be learning these morals. I think him “developing” into his game self is possible but I don’t really see them changing his quippy side. I do agree that he was likely mishandled at the start, while Shadow, Knuckles and Tails had more of a smooth introduction and could be seen as closer to their game counterparts. Movie Sonic (esp since Sonic 3) IS cool when he wants to be and I do pefer it when he’s not talking. Funnily enough, I think he was most close to his game counterpart during his interactions with Shadow during the third act of Sonic 3.
Erm.,,.enough rambling. Sonic is rad.
Literally everything you said was exactly what I have been complaining about with movie sonic.Especially when it came to not respecting the source material in the beginning
12:25 to answer that question is because sonic in this game it he feels kinda restrained because of the somber tone of the game just like his friends including amy like jesus she was so restrained because of the tone of the game like the only character next to sonic that was affected by the tone of the game was her i mean there was some stakes involved too ngl...so that's why the voice direction was quite odd.
Sonics ego and quippyness is what sonic isnt and shouldnt be
The quipiness is..fine just barely make jokes...not constantly but egotistical? Idk...i mean modern sonic seemed too nice and friendly these days if you ask me specially in frontiers but he lost his edge though and i don't think he really come off as an egotistical person..
I'm glad we're talking about this because frontiers sonic would probably not make a quip about in flight entertainment on a gun flight and then rip off a panel to use as like a skateboard and I recently thought about that. It's weird. His edge is gone.
in other words, sonic is a manic pixie dream hog
@@WindiiGitlord at least those have back stories
Sometimes SEGA remembers it one way, sometimes another....
If he's going to have characterization, they'd prefer it to be multiple-choice
My best discription of Sonic: Confident and cocky, Jokester, serious when called for, thinks on his feet, heroic, brave, cool, benevolent, caring and kind, And of course...Fast.
1998-2009 is the peak of sonics character and the closest its been to that is idw
At this point, I think the hardest character in this entire franchise to understand for me is not Amy, not Knuckles, not even Shadow, but Sonic himself.
The weird thing about movie Sonic is that it feels like the writers care about him and the franchise as a whole but Paramount forced them into the jokey speedster archetype in the first movie because that's what they thought would appeal to normal Americans (which isn't exactly wrong, just disappointing). So he's written with a decent amount of heart but you've got to wade through a lot of very corporate feeling characterization to get to the actual good stuff (like his relationships with Tails and Knuckles). And they can't just suddenly change him to be more similar to games because a) that's poor writing, making Paramount Sonic consistent with Game Sonic would make him inconsistent with himself unless developed very carefully and b) changing Paramount Sonic to be more like Game Sonic would more likely than not mean fundamentally changing almost everything else about the movies
The reason I call the movie version of Sonic an improvement is not because of his personality. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with his personality in the games (and in Sonic X, his personality would've been fine if they had continued the series, because I know for a fact that he was going to have a big character arc in season 4). The issue I took was that he was never given much in terms of a character arc in the games, and even when he had anything vaguely resembling an arc, it was always self-contained.
But the reason I like movie Sonic so much is because the movies DO give him an arc, and it's an arc that makes sense. I always joked around that the movies are basically Sonic X if Sonic was given a character arc in it. But if you watch Sonic 3 and compare it to the first two movies, he has matured quite a bit, and his personality is starting to draw closer to what it was in the 2000s era Sonic games. All the movies are doing is explaining how he got there.
Great job with the video! I really enjoyed the examples and probably ought to watch Sonic X's JP dub. Also the bit at 12:30 was hilarious.
For me, I never saw a harsh dividing line between Sonic's characterization in Colors-onwards and prior games. Like yeah he cracks jokes more frequently but it never felt out of line with his character, especially in like, Heroes for instance. I will say the plots themselves were a lot less engaging from Colors through Forces though.
Regarding Paramount Sonic though, having also seen the third movie, I didn't see him becoming more like game Sonic, but moreso just becoming more confident on his own. I remain interested in seeing how they adapt things in the movies but they definitely just feels like their own thing separate from the games. And that's ok! Like you mentioned, Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow are mostly on point though. That could have something to do with the success and feedback from the first movie. Anyway, again - great video!
Any type of Sonic I will like in some way
Except colors
Here’s a consistent sonic:
Goes fast.
I see your point, Autumn- as much as I don't mind other characterizations of Sonic, I can recognize that he hasn't been the same over the years, his character from the Adventure days is a far cry from his 2010's characterization, and still different from his current one
I've reflected upon something while watching this, not as a critique to your argument, but something I find interesting. The Sonic movies came out in 2020, which is- before Sonic Frontiers came out. That would mean Movie Sonic was probably based a lot on 2010's Sonic- he's like him, but more childish and immature because... well, he is a younger version of Sonic, I assume. The quips, the ego... it feels to me that it was meant to be a more inexperienced and childish version of him, and as the movies are going on, are progressing to be more of his own thing, more disconnected from Game Sonic.
Personally, I was fond of his characterization in the third movie, not just Sonic, but the characters in general, because I think it's a new, fresh interpretation on them, and i find them likable- Knuckles is both hilarious and worthy of respect, Tails while still geeky and nerdy, remains a kid at heart, and there's a bit of naïveté to Shadow's character, which I find refreshing.
Things I like about Movie Sonic is that he's still learning about how to be a hero. He's not even close to Game Sonic in terms of experience, so he'll mess up, a lot. Not to mention that's been isolated for most of his life, so he is going to act differently. But with each movie, he learns more. In Sonic 2, Sonic learns about responsibility, and what it means to be a hero. And his character arc leads him to befriending Knuckles, who ends up learning with him as well, which I think is very sweet. And I believe that with each movie, he learns more and more so he can be the best Sonic he can be.
TL;DR: I think Movie Sonic's characterization was firstly based off of 2010's Sonic, however, he is moving on to be its own different thing, and I appreciate that, even if it's different from Game Sonic overall
But nice video overall, Autumn ^^
Me personally, I think most interpretations of Sonic are good in their own right. I do wish it was more consistent, but different times call for different measures. Which is why I like what you did here. You don't outright call the 2010s characterization trash, but just inconsistent, which is what we came here for. Speaking of which, I think there is a way to link the different versions of Sonic's characterizations. The thing with Colors Sonic is that the reason this change was made was because it was the only way for Sonic to succeed. So Sonic changed, and so did the tone as a whole. My take here is that how Sonic acts depends on the atmosphere. Now that may seem dead obvious, but I'm talking to a ridiculous degree. Sonic doesn't feel the need to do anything that urgent at all during the 2010s games, so he feels no need to just act. He's okay slowing down and explaining everything. If the fundamentals of his environment change, his character does too. I know I'm just pulling this outta my ass, and it really shouldn't be that way, but 06 happened. 😔
Lastly, to anyone saying that BK is the objectively best characterisation, and every game after Colors is trash because it's different, shut up. Remember, art is *subjective.* Anyone's interpretation is valid. And even if it isn't, story is never the main focus of a Sonic game. It ain't the end of Sonic, calm down.
14:01 wasn't this whole point of him to being Abit irresponsible to have character development? Even tom called him out for it Like he eventually did learned to be more reasonsible and actually had a solid character development from this and grow from it i think you should take that to account he's flawed but not static he's actually learning and developing and evolving as a character! What i do disagree about your opinion about movie sonic is that you are kinda ignoring the character development he had throughout the movies like he definitely became better and evolved.
That approach is inherently a misinterpretation of Sonic as a character. Sonic is very intentionally a static character, there’s only so far you can excuse how mischaracterized he is with “it’s for character development” when Sonic as a whole should not be the result of some massive personality shift. It’s very obviously just a misinterpretation of his characterization, not an intentional change to have him grow into game Sonic like people say he is
@@DarnHooligan i mean...that's the whole point of why he isn't exactly potrayed like his game counterpart because probably the writers didn't wanted movie sonic to be a static character and wanted him to actually learn and grow as a character to have character development and such while i know his potrayal isn't exactly like how he's potrayed in games but i can respect the decision and commitment and the direction they are taking here i like movie sonic for who he is and as it's own thing and the solid character development he had throughout the movies like you actually see him grow and more mature which is something i can appericiate and the direction they took that's just solid and good character writing.
it's like god forbid a character have character growth..
If Frontiers Sonic has the heart of 2000s Sonic but with the mouth of 2010s Sonic, I wonder how he'd be written vice versa?
thats a good question i. can't tell if that'd be better or worse. i'm leaning towards worse. my brain is picturing a weird combination of boom sonic and x sonic and i don't like it.
The IDW Sonic is a whole other beast to discuss, and yeah, he deserves the divisive talk about him. I don't know if it's more Flynn or Evan Stanley, but there seems to be this odd fixation on writing Sonic to do long monologues and becoming a paragon type hero, and constantly giving the villain chances and even telling them to "apologize" after attempting to blow up a city (this just happened in the latest issue 75, you'll probably find a lot of people still talking about it) which in the midst of something VERY time sensitive, felt so dumb to do slowing a fight down like that.
Sonic is a rogue hero not a paragon/goodie two shoes type. He does stuff based on his own principles, he shouldn't be acting like an authority over everyone else, which the comic frequently ends up at. Should be spending less time quipping and monologuing and more time getting down to business, this point i very much resonate with in your video.
Sometimes they do actually get him right, its just this latest issue seems to have relapsed into where he's at his weakest writing wise.
I noticed that in the soundtrack version of this sence the music that plays is the same as from the movie except that in the movie the music is played at a more frantic and is much more fast paced
Here it sounds much more slower and I wonder why that is ? And if anyone knows why this is please feel free to inform me about this as I would love to if there is an answer to this
I think we need shiro maekawa back
I've seen people criticizing SEGA's decission to make Sonic appeal internationally by letting each region have their own interpretation of Sonic, and I agree with them. BUT, whether we like it or not, this is what we're stuck with now, so let try to find the good in it.
Sonis as a brand has become extremely huge internationally, and this can be seen in Sonic himself. He's not alligned with his Japanese writing anymore because his American writing is also a part of him now. Sonic has become a symbol of globalization, SEGA just need to find the balance between this and his writing and we're all good to go
Also, Movie Sonic isn't done growing yet so maybe we will get a more true version of himself in the future. Yes, I know kids doesn't need a character that grow alongside them to teach them good values when a perfectly executed well written static character xan do that just find but they're stuck with the former since Sonic 1 so I'll give them some slack
I have always had what I feel is an unpopular idea of how I interpret Sonic
I really enjoy it when he's quippy
and arrogant
I don't think these traits are mutually exclusive from a strong sense of justice, or his actions speaking louder than his words.
I enjoy a lot of Sonic's annoying quirks
You can make jokes and banter and still not needing to explain your actions, but most of the time quippy versions of Sonic don't do that
He's always explaining why he's there and why he is doing what he's doing.
In an ideal scenario (for me)
Sonic is constantly yapping, but it's closer to small talk
Like suggesting new paint jobs for eggman's mechs.
I mean yes it’s not very consistent, movie Sonic is NOT game Sonic and Sonic from the adventure games is not the same anymore as the one in the 2000s game
I miss the adventure era but now he is more a spider man hero that makes jabs
tbf he's less jokey these days in IDW and in frontiers zero jokes was there i don't think we should be considered about sonic's quipping because for one it slowly starting get addressed what we should be considered about is the whole philosophy he has in IDW and oooooh boy is this a massive miss!! i think we should be more concern about this they kinda addressing some of the criticisms about it and it's been awhile we haven't seen any type of that philosophy or moral scenarios again for awhile(hopefully it stays or be less of it) but we have to wait and see ofc it's been a complete year his characterization has improved and they probably took the criticism about sonic's characterization but let see how it goes in the future issues
LOVED the video, agree with a lot of your points, but i would give "Movie Sonic is better in Movie 3" argument a bit of a benefit of the doubt. A lot of aspects of his characterization from the first two movies are still undeniably present, but he is much more proactive at the same time. After GUN initially recruits him, he himself comes to conclusion that he can't trust them and he wants to learn the truth to do the right thing. This seems like fairly Sega Sonic thing to do (the game sonic would probably not be so easily convinced to go along with helping GUN tho admittedly).
that's about the only thing he does in the movie that slightly resembles game sonic. the rest of the time he's too caught up in quipping, splitting off from his OWN team, and going on revenge plots
@@therandomvideochannel8589 with all due respect, sonic splitting off from the team is perfectly in-character lol. he loves his friends but he can just easily go out on his own without warning.
@@klu698 actually yeah fair point but i think it was done with the wrong intent. the bit that rubbed me the wrong way about that is there was a clear arc of him learning to be a team leader, asking forgiveness from tails and knuckles at the end for going his own way. that's very not sonic
Video is peak I'm a afraid
Nice job ^^
i feel like Movie Sonic is fundamentally a different person than Game Sonic. he's a naive kid, an outsider, and has much to learn. he has a positive character arc over the course of the films, and Game Sonic isn't written like that. heck, his games aren't even written following the monomyth structure like the movies are. Game Sonic is generally the one enacting change on his environment, and remaining mostly the same. Movie Sonic is being changed by his environment and reacting accordingly, changing and maturing. Movie Sonic experiences the plot, Game Sonic inflicts himself on the plot
I LOVE the copyright law line!
Characterization matters. Don't sell yourself short just because it's about Sonic
I still don't get how 2000's game!Sonic is a consistent character and the point of Movie! Sonic in Sonic 2 learns to be more responsible. Sonic threw out the movie's leaners in general. It's not perfect, but the way he connects and tries to make up is effective for me as a 2000s Sonic fan. I see your points, though.
I think Movie Sonic has a reason for being childish, i mean i cant explain it but i know why
I always thought he peaked in Adventure 2 and Sonic X. Once Sonic Colors came around it all went downhill for me. It wasn't until Lost World that I started to actually dislike him. I don't like his portrayal in the first Sonic movie so I skipped the second one, but I love SA2 so I'm going to watch Sonic 3 today. Lastly, he was also really cool in the OVA
10:57 ur right
We need him to have the mouth of 2000s and to SHUT UP. Sonic shouldnt be yapping so much
I think i like evan stanley writing over ian
I don't think him talking abit more in regular and normal times isn't really an issue let him talk all he want if he's talking to someone or his friends that's not really a problem but...whenever he's fighting something or someone or there are stakes involved this is where he should do the whole ((let his actions do the talking)) thingy and to be fair he wasn't really all that wordy unless when he was interacting with his friends for right reasons that's all.
Im so damn tired of the people who are mad with movie sonic being more childish the difference between movie sonic and prime sonic is that movie sonic IS ITS OWN THING ITS OWN STORY while prime for some reason is cannon contradicting who sonic is being all childish and stuff. As long as a piece of sonic media in general does smth different so it doesn't spit in the face of the main cannon they built up and is likable im fine with it. Boom knuckles isnt cannon, IT IS ITS OWN THING SONIC BOOM IS ITS OWN THING. Modern knuckles however should not been dumbed down, luckily hes better tho today. Also boom knuckles is funny asf so
@@FlipSide2025 it’s a valid critique. movie sonic might be its own thing, but for most of the world (non sonic fans) it’s their first exposure to him. it’s the most popular version of the character. this means that they have an inaccurate idea of what sonic is, and this will inevitably result in sega pandering more towards the movie fans and end up influencing the games
@therandomvideochannel8589 this is a different sonic though, it might not be 1:1 but it doesn't have to be, movie sonic is more focused on growth and u can see him coming into his game counterpart later on more and more. Plus imo hes still a likable character so it doesn't matter
@@FlipSide2025it quite literally has nothing in common with the game sonic besides name. Its not sonic