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Rectifying an Error and Historically Correct Hats
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2024
- Well, when discussing the .44-40 vs the .45 Colt, I made an error in stating that the 1871-72 Colt Open Top was chambered in .44 Colt. It was not. It was chambered in .44 Henry Rimfire. You expect historical accuracy and I couldn't let my misstatement stand. And, speaking of historical accuracy, let's look at a few hat styles featured in period photographs that leave little doubt regarding their authenticity.
Bowen, Ezra, (Ed.). (1973). The Old West: The Cowboys, Time Life Books.
OPEN RANGE (2003), Best Scene, ABC Cinema. UA-cam, Jan 14, 2023, • Open Range - Best Scene
APPALOOSA (2008), Original Theatrical Trailer, Warner Bros. UA-cam, Jul 8, 2014, • Appaloosa - Original T...
I'm 69 and grew up in the livestock industry in Pacific Northwest and Montana. The thing I have noticed is that most Cowboys bought an off the shelf hat and personalized it. I they had enough money they would buy a hat for Sunday church go to meeting or the bar. Once they adapted their "style" usually as a kid they stuck with it for the rest of their life. Often they were influenced by their Dad or one of the older Cowboys. Charlie Russell wrote a book called Trails Ploughed Under, his second book, filled with drawing and paintings of real Cowboys, Indians, Horses and their rigs that he personally knew dating back to the Late 1870's. The local Cowboys from Montana could recognise the Cowboy and his horse and his saddle rig and often his particular weapons. Nearly all of the incidents portrayed in his paintings were something he saw or had described by people who were there. The hat he portrayed are accurate to the time and place.
Great video. Keep doing what you're doing. Living History is absolutely the best way to teach kids about our history.
Real good comment.
Thank you, I bought a copy off ebay last night
We used to call the Gus a Montana crush or a Montana crease.
YES SIMILAR.
MONTANA MULE KICK DID HAVE A TALLER CROWN.
Just off the top of my head, in 1885 when Major John Stewart was organizing and equipping his Rocky Mountain Rangers for service in the North-west Rebellion, (North-west Territories, Canada) besides "Canvas Duck" jackets they picked up hats at the General Store in Ft. Macleod. It sounds like these store bought hats all had an open crown. In other words, they were sold with no shape merely domed. It was up to the buyer to punch or pull or maybe even steam the "blank" crown into whatever shape they desired. That might be one reason for such a variety of crowns on those old western hats.
Ya got that right.😊
The pic of Grant and his staff was taken just south of Fredericksburg, VA at Massaponax Church just after the battle of Spotsylvania Court House on May 21, 1864. The majority of the black hats you see being worn in that are M1858 Hardee pattern hats “field modified” or private purchase
I don't live far from there.
ua-cam.com/video/YKjqzu9Qe-8/v-deo.htmlsi=ilMiabLG6_neI434
Hi, gratifying to see a UA-camr acknowledging and correcting a mistake. As far as Civil War slouch hats go you should really take a look at the 1858 US Army dress hat also known as the Hardee hat. This is a wide brimmed tall crown hat which by regulation was worn cocked on one side with a brass cockade. However it was widely issued during the war and particularly to the armies in the West under Sherman where it was often issued without all the fittings as just a plain black hat. If you look at pictures of western units you will almost always see this hat in evidence and very often creased ti the wearers liking. It may even be the basis of some of the hats in the first picture you showed although being officers their hats are far more likely to be privately purchased versions.
I very much enjoyed this video. Have worn western style hats my entire life and I am older than dirt. I have always enjoyed some variation of the Gus style, even way before Lonesome Dove came out. My grandfather was born in the area around Moscow, Idaho in 1889. He taught me so much about the real cowboy life, what they wore as well as their gear. Your picture proof of the hat styles of the time was excellent. My grandfather used to belly laugh at those 10-20 round revolvers in the old movies. Said he always wanted one of them Hollywood guns. Hahaha.
Elmer Kieth in some of his books shows him as a young man in the early twentieth century’s wearing a Montana sloped hat which was sloped like a Gus hat but taller in the back
Elmer Keith was a friend of my Dad when we lived in Salmon, Idaho late 1950's to 1960. I was five and turned 6 there before moving to Darby, Montana. I remember his hat and some of his Guns.
My grandfather showed me that shape when he gave me my first Stetson. He was a wolf boy in the 1890's in Montana.
I bought a brown Stetson when we moved to Montana in 2007 and I still wear it. My wife, on the other hand, has built quite a collection of various Spanish and cowboy hats since we settled here. I had one of her wide brimmed light tan hats re-creased to match the type Raquel Welch wore in Hannie Caulder.
There are no hard women, just soft men!
I'm a long time civil war reenacter I've been an extra in a couple of movies and have very authentic Jean cloth uniform. I just use much of my uniform and footwear to do CAS. I had my old sheriff's department Stetson reshaped to a similar hat you have there and refined with period correct liner. Made it into the movie God's and Generals and a history Chanel Chickamauga episode in it.
That sounds like a lot of fun. I'm jealous. Todd
@@frontierwesternheritage1356 Very fun and very expensive to get the uniform foot wear hear gear and weapons correct for the period.
Thanks for correcting, You learn We learn, sounds like a win.
Still love Hildago too and Tombstone!
I'm quite the history enthusiast and enjoy researching BC to yester year. The words historically accurate/ correct have always puzzled me. One era never stops abruptly to make way for the next. There is a very long fusion and transition from one to the other. I wore a 34 year old wool coat that looks almost new to a family function just last month and I was asked by someone where they could get one.
The hat creases from the westward expansion era are inumerable, especially for drovers.
Higher classed individuals wore the popular creases. However, cowboys would shape their hat to either catch water or shed water depending on their climate.
The "Gus" shape would have come from a northern climate as it is shaped to shed water, most likely from Montana.
Other cowboy styles originated from how the hat was handled when being placed on the head or maybe being turned up in front from the wind pushing on it from a running horse...or turned up in back from sleeping on it. Crown creases where at the whim of the individual. There are almost as many crown creases as the number of 'pokes that wore them.
To claim that a hat style is not authentic exposes how little that person actually knows about the time period.
😊😊😊
That is one of my fav movies! With Kevin Costner! Open Range!
A fur felt dome can only be shaped so many ways, but I would submit that the Roy Roger’s Horseshoe Crease takes this concept to a bit of an extreme. I do however believe what you called a “Rancher” crease might be more commonly known as a “Cattleman.”
Thank you for the integrity of self-checking facts and making corrections.
The correct name for the Gus is the Montana Slope Crease....
The old west cowboy as seen on tv never existed
Thank you for another great video I greatly enjoyed it. The subject of hats is a favorite of mine, I have heard that Costners hat style is a Wyoming peak; I had mine shaped like that then changed it to a Montana peak.
I could talk about cowboy style hats for hours. I believe the subject of the photographer in the civil war photo was Ulysses Grant, sitting with his legs crossed reading a paper, looking forward to seeing you again sir. Cheers.
I think you're right about Grant. The photographer took several photos and subsequent ones show Grant standing and definitely identifiable. Thanks for watching, Todd
Always appreciate a video explaining old west and cowboy hat styles. Innumerable videos and comments make the charge that the cowboy hat is nothing more than an old Mexican sombrero that the Anglos stole.
And thanks for the 44 rimfire correction as well. Another reason this channel is excellent.
Appaloosa was a great movie too...
I have torn the liners from every hat I have had to get them to fit snugger and so they will stay on in the wind, at least that is my experience with them.
It always appears to me that people over upsweep the sides of the brim, looks like hats from
rodeo circuits from the 1940s,
Some of them remind me of hard taco shells!
The “civilian maybe newspaperman” is wearing shoulder boards - he’s an Army officer.
Well, you blew a hole in my little theory. By his body language, it appears he is not buying into whatever plan is being concocted. If it's the plan to tunnel under Confederate lines, I don't blame him. Thanks for making a great point, Todd
New sub based off good content and admitting to makinga mistake is rare now days. Have a blessed weekend.
I think that when doing living history one has to take a very critical approach to material culture. The best way to do this is not to take a piece that interests us and then look through various sources to see if you can find it, or what I call "reverse documentation," because that tends to lead to mistakes (where we see what we want to see) or to items which just weren't common. For the most part (and I recognize the value of certain exceptions), we should be using what friends of mine call "NUG," or "Normal, usual, and general." Case in point: For a few years some very strange people in NYC wore men's business suits with short pants (very, very few). It can be documented, but for almost all impression of 20thC living history it would be wildly wrong despite that. The best approach is to *start* with documentation, find what you see the most of, or at least what is very common, and then duplicate that.
Great points, Todd
The best photo reference material is books;
Photographing Montana 1894-1928 The Life and Work of Evelyn Cameron. Author Donna M. Lucey.
L.A. Huffman Photographer of the American West. Author Larry Len Peterson.
Both books have Montana geography and Humans living the West life.
Love your videos. Great content. May not be period correct but my favorite design is the Charlie Waite hat.
I would imagine that the hats were a standard issue and in times of boredom these guys would fold and try different shapes that they like and was practical for them unless they could afford a custom shape
Looks like the guy on the left of him has a cattlemen's crease.
Brims we’re generally smaller and hats showed a a lot of use. Slouch hats definitely were smaller. Loo at the early Boss of the plains hats. These are all officers who can afford a more expensive cover than a foot soldier.
Congratulations on another great video.
Great video. I need another hat.😬
Thank you 😊
Absolutely a joy to watch you videos ❤!!
Everybody makes mistakes I do all the time on my channel as well! Nobody's perfect, And if people were complaining they can go ahead and make their own videos... Keep up the good work Todd!
Good video looking forward to the next
Very interesting. I bought your book on gun leather and clothing. I've only had a chance to skim through it so far, but I like it. I want to find a book or some resource for accurate hats, clothing, and gun leather from Republic of Texas period.
There are a lot of disappointing books on hats. Many gloss over periods of history because the author couldn't fill the gaps. If you find a great one, let me know. Thanks, Todd
I have an original Richards conversion in 44 colt. The performance between 44 colt and 44 Henry are about the same. The c&b load with a conceal bullet is also about the same. One of my hats is the natural color of beaver and styled as one Jim Bridger is seen wearing. I believe that a hat may start out with one style crease but as it is worn for years it gets crushed reshaped and mangled to the point that it does not resemble any set style. Great video.
still a top show and we all make mistake, but not too many people will say that they made a mistake...🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠
More good info. Thanks again
Love the part on your current haircut from 1880!
Thanks Doc (from a hat guy, too)
Was a time a “man”…never left the house uncovered…..should come back
Well I did a somewhat similar video in which I give a brief talk on the historical foundation of a felt hat as far back as the 1820s. I state if memory serves that all large brim western hats start out as an open crown. The open crown can either be shaped by the maker, custom shaped at the store or in many cases stay open crowned. An open crown than over time habits, environment and a user's will can change as time elapse.
I think the title is how to assess the a real cowboy, based on visual signs. One sign I messed up and cut up wrong I called the Campbell soup effect. Meaning the wind/sun facial deep tan, until one takes off the hat exposing the pasty white forehead and high cheeks
All my hat are open crown or are reshaped back to open crown and allow time to take it's course.
Mountain man
Yeahhh .. but what type of hat would I have worn as a half Irish Cheyenne 'breed' with a caribbean grandmother - when bison hunting in summer? 🙃.
great video bro! love it
Good Video
Hi, Doc.I really enjoy your videosI like the old beat up Stetson you wear at the range. What model,is that? thanks.
It's just a 4X Gus by Stetson. Age and weather have given it some character. Thanks for watching, Todd
@@frontierwesternheritage1356 Thanks.
i think they ere using conversions at the time. Like hats