From an English cultutral point of view,, it is OK to make jokes about your own suffering, but not about the suffering of others, especially if you bear a degree of personal responsibily for that suffering, as Welby does.
From an English cultural point of view it is required that, if you are in fact distinguished (ArchCant say) and the occasion is of lighter character (after dinner speech say) then yes, you must be self-deprecating and funny with it. Etonians are good at this. Most members of the House of Lords can do this too, and wear their expertise lightly. But Welby's clunking mistake was that this occasion was in no way light. It was either amazing that he so mis-read the occasion or he simply opened his mouth and removed all doubt that he personally was unworthy of his office.
Welby has lived his whole life in a bubble of comfort and security. He absolutely doesn't get it. The English ruling class will never get it. All we can do is ignore them completely, whatever position they supposedly hold. Many of us in England have lost faith in anyone in positions of authority. We live in a topsy-turvy land where nothing is as it seems.
Welby was neither speaking nor acting as a man speaking nor acting as a man guilty of a severe cover up at the worst or a great safeguarding failure at the least. There was no real sense of penitence or shame. What a thorough disgrace.
@chrisstewartbenson119 Chris, he was promoted through being a part of the Iwerne public school crowd. These were over priviledged Anglican evangelicals who believed that the leadership of church and state should come from their ranks. So they worked through networks of posh influential clergy and laity to promote the likes of Welby to pisitions of leadership. I saw it first hand - Ruston took him under his wing and introduced and promoted him to the grandees of posh evangelicalism. If you did not come from that select privileged crowd, you would not get a look in. The establishment planned succession. However many of these evangelucal grandees would be turning in their graves now following Welby's apostacy and abysmal leadership.
What causes me anger is there doesn't seem to be realisation of how serious this abuse is - the harm it has caused to the victims, and the damage to the Gospel. It is worth remembering that this speech in the House of Lords, came after the Archbishop's meeting with Ian Hislop, and the publicity surrounding this encounter. Where is the sense of sorrow, and grief about the harm caused, and where is the repentance?
The problem with Welby is pride! That's why he tries to make light of such unbelievable incompetence and to deflect responsibility. I am sure the Bishop of Kensington recognised Welby's obvious belief in his own self righteousness. Welby apparently made it known from the beginning of his ministry that he would not be happy until he was made archbishop. He is what some would describe as 'gold-plated' - whose shine is all show and exceedingly shallow. William Barclay describes such people as performing nothing more than 'theatrical goodness'. And Jesus nails it (if you'll pardon the pun) with: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me'. Some would say Welby hasn't even got as far as honoring Jesus with his words.
My dh and I once had the chance to participate in a Holy Eucharist by the 1549 rite. Beautiful and glorious, we both agreed. Highly recommend, 10/10 would do it again!
Regarding the story about the cardinal who wants to offer communion to anyone: there is a section in Dante’s inferno in which a character is preemptively forgiven by the pope for an act of betrayal. At his death, Saint Francis comes to take him to heaven, but the devil claims him as his own and he ends up in the inferno. Preemptive forgiveness is a perversion of the sacrament, as is regarding it as “magic.” A better reading of the offer of the bread and wine to Judas would be to see it as putting before Judas’s eyes the reality of his intentions and the choice set before him. He still has time to repent. If he takes the bread and wine without repenting, he takes it to his own destruction, as it says in 1 Corinthians 11:27-30. And in fact, he does end up killing himself. Peter, even though he denies Jesus, does repent and is forgiven.
I live in the parish where Welby was the priest. He earned a creditable reputation. He probably just doesn't know "how to be" right now. Glen Scrivener (Speak Life) gave a penetrating analysis of the C of E's institutional 'circling of the wagons'. More bishops must go.
This was absolutely disgusting behaviour by Welby. He was mourning his own demise not giving a thought for victims. We should each ask of ourself in any situation what would Christ do? I am in the UK and have seen this situation too many times where the church has covered up wrongdoing. I am a Christian and it makes me so sad to see the church in such a mess
I like George's comment about the march of the liturgy nazis. I think it was Bishop Gavin Reid who posed a riddle. "What is the difference between a terrorist and a liturgist? Answer - you can negotiate with a terrorist."
"Where there is no vision, the people perish." The great problem with Archbishop Welby and the C of E is that it has lost its vision. Far better if he pointed out that Christ came to save us in our sinful helplessness and left the church in the world to reach out to other sinners in their helplessness. It was the failure of Welby to safeguard this fundamental mission of the church that he very properly stepped down.
he is on the side of the of the perverts as he favours the pagan Romans , the inheritors of Babalon, . Do you still not know what the WEF is ? you know like king charles . He never had a vision , apart from Gnostic satanism , grow up.
As an English churchgoer, re cultural issues / response I would say that Welby's speech to the House of Lords on his resignation was totally inappropriate and appalling. I'm at the stage where I thought no new Welby gaffe could surprise me, but I was dumbfounded at how utterly self-centred, tone-deaf and lacking in empathy his speech was. So that's a perspective from the UK!
Please can you explain and elaborate why this church HTB, had the power to over rule the Bishop of Kensington, and get Welby into ordination? Why did they push Welby in this way? What was their agenda>
Welby said nothing about nothing. I had to check and make sure my brain didn’t die while listening to him. His pride stifled him so much that he said nothing for the glory of God.
Really sad about his secretary who organises his calendar having to cancel all the bookings (not). All you can say is that based on this speech alone he was clearly completely unfit for the office. I disagree about him being "insensitive". He is actually just somebody who sees himself as born to rule, a member of an elite unanswerable to the general public.
On the last item: Have these ‘priests’ never read the Scripture? Evidently not. 1 Cor 11:27-30 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
Yes, but this admonition doesn't really apply to the C of E because it doesn't have a valid Eucharist. It has merely been play-acting since its inception.
The C of E hierarchy prefer 'company' men and women who will not rock the boat, will close ranks, and not spill the beans. Reform the criteria for selection, the pool from which bishops are selected, and study their track records rather than their academic qualifications or their crowd-pleasing agendas. The current process obviously has not worked and the only say the laity have is choosing from a pre-selected group of managers and hirelings rather than leaders and shepherds. It's all been a very sad joke and we are reaping the consequences.
The official languages of the Philippines are Tagalog and English. Tagalog is taught to most people in school. My wife is a native Ilocano speaker. She also speaks Tagalog and English. English is also taught in schools. If people don't speak English, they should be able to speak and read Tagalog. One of the issues is a regional/tribal issue. People are very proud of the region they come from
It is not just that all the ecclesiastical civil servants are soaking up resources, each of them also creates further work and tasks for the parochial clergy to undertake, even if it is but to read page after page of verbiage from them.
I personally omit the filioque when reciting the creed in my (Anglo Catholic) church, but not from a desire to be ecumenical, but because on this point I agree with the Eastern Orthodox Church. I seriously doubt that many in the congregation have given it any thought and simply recite the filioque because its in the creed in order of service book, a fact which raises an objection to the claim that what we pray is what we believe.
@@dianastevenson131 Hi Diana, here's a very short explanation. ua-cam.com/users/shortsyV43wJC3Sdik I've also linked a short video from Patristic Nectar setting out the Eastern Orthodox position on the filioque in a little more detail. ua-cam.com/video/pPnSWArkfgM/v-deo.html
@@dianastevenson131 - You are confusing the HYPOSTATIC Trinity with the ECONOMIC (in time & space) Trinity. In time and space the Holy Spirit is sent from the Father and the Son but the Holy Spirit has His being ONLY from the Father, as the Church proclaimed for the first thousand years of her life. The filioque is heresy.
Gentlemen. You haven't quite got it. ABJ did refer previously to his shame. However, you are talking of a man who is at best in shock. And you are expecting him to be operating A1. Now. Example. In one week's time say - one of you - say - is going to resign because you have just realised that you are responsible for something that requires your resignation. No doubts. You go. Publically. In shame. On TV. You have one day to say you won't resign. And the next day to resign. To do the right thing. Will you be shock? How will you function as you prepare to move out of your home which now - is no longer your home. Where might you you able to live?. All the plans have gone. No home now. What can you do to comfort and protect your family - who are in shock and tears. And you worry about their mental health. Because that's a problem for one of the children. Or did you forget that? And did you forget the loss their child? And for you - will you function A1 in the midst of this? And then you show must up and make a speech which is one of your normal 'off the cuff types ' - it's all you manage just now - and of course it's wrong....and then the stones are cast at you by all. And everyone looks down and aside and has not an ounce of love in them. Just hate. And do you hate him? Or have love and pity for him. Because gentlemen - I see pride, and hate and no love. And that is the real shame. Those who should love, but reach for the stones. Gentlemen. Walk in the shoes. Walk. For the sake of our Lord. How many strokes do you want for him? Two, six, twelve and how many days? He is a sorry sinner. And you? And me? And I must also point to you - YOU - and say - you destroyed my life. I won't say how. But your wear the collar. And you vote. And...you are part of it. But we all - under God - are. All of us are sinners. And sometimes it's dreadful. And needs dread. Do you know that one? Crucify him once - and that's your lot. York next. And then Oxford. And on and on. The of course, look for the next type of damage. The next one to go. Witch hunt time. And we know where that takes us. Or do we? But remember the One who could say - ''Forgive them Father - for they know not what they do''. Shame on you. ABJ is already living his shame. And will do so for the rest of his life. But you?.........
No not a British cultural thing. The lack of morals and integrity are profound. The head of the church is exact,y that. If he was 5 aware; which he clearly was, he is not a fit person in that he failed as a Christian; only the Lord can address that, he was also a massive failure even in the worldly view. He protected his own at the cost of truth and Theda age fostered in children in the churches care. The enemy has infiltrated this organization apparent from its departure from scripture and turned to the worldly cultural view. He should have resigned when he failed to preach the Lords holy word not his own. The church is held to a much higher standard by the Lord. I pray Welby relents and asks for forgiveness and pray forgiveness.
Does this not remind us of King Saul, first King of Israel, when he was confronted by Samuel regarding sacrifice ? In short, disobedience to the Word of God. Therefore, God removed Saul from being King AND God removed His Holy Spirit away from Saul.
Limiting carbohydrate intake is a very good idea! However I think it is not a bad thing to break that rule on special occasions (not medical advice, seek advice from the relevant professionals if in doubt)
Don’t worry about the filioque, the Orthodox know that at any moment there are about 8 episcopalians who care what the Orthodox think or believe. For that matter most episcopal folks don’t believe the REST of the creed, but that doesn’t get mentioned. Trivia.
Good point. I suppose from what has taken place in the Episcopal Church within the past seventy or eighty years, it may be asked how many Episcopalians believe in the Incarnation? It seems not a few take the creeds and other traditional expressions per forma.
What did the Bishop of Kensington see? Perhaps he saw that Archbishop Welby lacked zeal for the holiness of God. That was an impediment to him being ordained in the first place. Did he even understand the imputed righteousness of Christ?
While the apostate Justin Welby has been removed, I have ZERO confidence that a faithful minister of the gospel will be selected. It is so sad to see this once dynamic, impactful, and faithful church of Christ fall into such disrepair. Oh, Church of England return to the teachings of our Lord, return to the Orthodox Christianity that made this church a real force for good like it was in the past.
It does not surprise me that Welby denied his own responsibility & errors in handling the terrible disaster that occurred to so many young men. Why would he, he has no one pressing him to be contrite. The King should have stripped him of his position & his honour recently given him after all the King is the Supreme Governor of the C of E. This demonstrates who destitute the C of E is of moral integrity. As for Welby he is a disgrace to his calling, he denies the teaching of Holy Gospel as we have witnessed over the years. He is a Woke apology for a Priest who should have been removed years ago. Maybe we are witnessing what happens to the evil who pretend they are acting in the name of Our Blessed Lord when in fact they are the messengers of the evil one. Just let’s pray for these sinners. 🙏🙏🙏
One could tempted to say that we also have a Woke king. And Alpha is a gospel that falls short which Welby was connected to. Welby was a convenient government appointment in my opinion, a weak man.
George, does '...all baptized Christians are welcome...' mean that you believe in baptismal regeneration? I've always found that to be a confusing invitation.
@@georgeconger4782 Repeating the 'standard line' doesn't necessarily mean it's the Biblical line. What about baptismal regeneration? I am seriously trying to understand this doctrine.
@royquick-s5n well, there's what St. Peter wrote -- "and this baptism, which now saves you," if I'm recalling correctly. The end of chapter three in his first epistle.
That is so true. I saw it happening first hand. He was introduced and promoted to a large number of evangelical grandees from the public school/Iwerne lot. It was very much a closed shop. He was lined up for high office way back in his life. I bet a few of them are turning in their graves now following his apostacy.
From an English point of view and likely any point of view, this speech was not only on this occasion inappropriate and misjudged. This was confirmation that Welby was bereft of understanding of the scale of all his failings during his tenure. Biblical delusion appears to have set in and understood only after others pointed it out. It is astonishing and maybe a work of grace, he so confirmed to the world and anyone who was maybe unsure, why he had to go.
Perth is a bit of an " interesting" place anyway with a Dean in tbe past who openly doubted the physical resurrection of Christ. I serm to recall that the good Archbishop and her Movement for Ordination of Women were asserting in the past at General Synod that tbey only wanted ordination and nothing more and gracious me no way could it extend over into the orthodox position on homosexuality being affected! Others asserted at General Synod that you should only stick to thr Gospels & Revelation, totally ignore Paul's Epistles and then rely on the continuing revelation of God to guide you spiritually. The thing about the CoE is that if you can't acceot responsibility for what occurred on your watch or when you were told things, it is a very sad day. The fish rots from the head. The whole premise of safe guarding and training is accountability.
Cardinal David's views are new? Maybe to Roman Catholics, but to Anglicans? Years ago I heard Anglican seminarians discussing the relation of Communion to forgiveness. As stated in the catechism, "The inward gift signified is the Body and Blood of Christ, which are truly taken and received in the Lord's Supper by faith." If "by faith" is missing, it would seem there is no "magic." If received "by faith," it would seem there would be a prior disposition of reconciliation with God, no ands, ifs, or buts. It is stated in the catechism, "I receive God"s forgiveness," but is that not contingent on the recipient's seeking it in the first place? In regard to Judas' status during and after betrayal, what scriptural evidence do we have than Judas "repented" (Mt 27.3) and, "falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out," giving the field purchased by the thirty pieces of silver the name Field of Blood (Acts 1.18-20)? Jesus did say at the Last Supper, ". . . woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed. It would have been better for that if he had not been born." Any thing else is pure conjecture. In regard to who has received Communion, it is my understanding that among the early Christians, baptized received Communion. Those not baptized, the catechumens, left the service before that point. It would seem Cardinal David is proposing an innovation, if he is, indeed, suggesting that non-baptized should receive. 🤔
I think Welby is suffering from what CG Jung called "Identification with the Persona". I think maybe after a while, you lose touch with the real person that lurks behind the persona. And personally, watching that awful clip, I am not sure he is really sane.
Gentlemen; Back to you once more. I - unlike you - have had a meeting with + John Kensington. And like ABJ - it was when I too was an ordinand. And I do assure you - that the 'bad pastor factor' had nothing to do with it. I can say - beyond doubt - that it turned out to be grace. God just wanted me elsewhere. +John had enough young pastors. I gave him my alternative as working with the poor. A much more difficult calling in practical terms. For starters - find your own money, home, and carry on from there. Which I did. You see - sometimes God uses the 'management types'. And against all the odds - it was grace all the way. And I know what it means to thank God - for my going with my calling. Not sure about + John though. Did you ever meet him? Don't diss ABJ. Not Godly. See Matt 26 onwards.
George sp;oke of what people get on Sunrday morning ang Kevin added, "The Eucharist". That is one of the sad things in much of the Anglicanb world. Many churches have only the Lord's Supper on Sunday morning and most of those people don't go to church in the evenings. Thus they never experience Morning or Evening Prayer. I am very glad that I was brought up in a church where we had sung Morning Prayer twice per month, with all the richness of the 1662 service. The idea of having only the Lord's Supper as though it is more important than Morning Prayer is I believe unbiblical. Whenever we are gathered together in Jesus' he is there in the midst. He said so. Can he be more in our midst at one time than another? I understand that Cranmer believe that both Morning Prayer and teh Holy Communion are equally important. Therefore new liturgies should have good reasons if that principle is not observed. And long live the filioque phrase!
@@royquick-s5n The rubrics in 1662 say that the parish priest is to announce in advance when the next Lord's Supper is to be celebrated and a long Exhortation is to be read on the Sunday before. The rubrics say that everyone should take part in the sacraments at least three times a year- not 52 times. If there are fewer than three present besides the priest there is to be no sacrament celebrated. The whole implication of the rubrics is that the sacrament will not be held every Sunday, and probably not very many times in the year- in parish churches, but weekly in cathedrals. The 1662 book is of course not a "Puritan" book, as we all know. The tradition of having a full Morning Prayer,. alternating with the Lord's Supper, with sung Psalm and canticles and extensive prayers was a good development based on the 1662 principles.
@@royquick-s5n Roy, your points are all interesting. We could discuss forever. My comments are pointing out the standards that still apply in much of the Anglican Communion, including here in Australia, where 1662 and the 39 Articles are (supposedly) the main standards in doctrine and practice in our national constitution. The practice varies greatly, but the doctrines and principles are supposed to align with those 17th century standards. They don't of course, as liberalism has spread through some of our down under dioceses while others have become more conservative and Protestant. By the way, I think that in general the Puritans were marvellous, but that's another story.
@@davidmorrison2739 Yes, I realize that the 1662 has been the standard for most of the Anglican Communion. In regard to adherence to 17th century standards, I suppose that it may be debated according whose perceptions, the Anglican clergy or the Puritans favoring further changes. in regard to the 39 Articles, some do not or someone does not seem to be telling the truth. Are the Bishop of Ripon, John R. H. Moorman's remarks in his A History of the Church in England that the 39 Articles "are not meant to be a formulary of the Christian faith" but "statement of the Church of England's attitude towards the doctrinal disputes which were convulsing Europe at the time" true or false? In regard to Puritans, someone is projecting an inaccurate image of them. Read alone in Moorman's history Puritan attempts to force unwanted Calvinistic reforms on the Church of England, especially during the Interregnum (Commonwealth). In the North American colonies, Puritan influence prevented arrival of bishops, Anglican or Roman Catholic, sooner than they did. One of the reasons for the recension of Massachustts' original charter was Puritan opposition to Anglicans opening a church in Boston. 🤔
From an English cultutral point of view,, it is OK to make jokes about your own suffering, but not about the suffering of others, especially if you bear a degree of personal responsibily for that suffering, as Welby does.
Not just Welby, but also Bergolio, countless cardinals, bishops and other corrupt officials of the Roman Church as well.
From an English cultural point of view it is required that, if you are in fact distinguished (ArchCant say) and the occasion is of lighter character (after dinner speech say) then yes, you must be self-deprecating and funny with it. Etonians are good at this. Most members of the House of Lords can do this too, and wear their expertise lightly. But Welby's clunking mistake was that this occasion was in no way light. It was either amazing that he so mis-read the occasion or he simply opened his mouth and removed all doubt that he personally was unworthy of his office.
It wasn’t Reagen who used the phrase “The Buck stops here” it was Harry Truman. He kept a sign bearing that phrase on his desk during his presidency
Welby has lived his whole life in a bubble of comfort and security. He absolutely doesn't get it. The English ruling class will never get it. All we can do is ignore them completely, whatever position they supposedly hold. Many of us in England have lost faith in anyone in positions of authority. We live in a topsy-turvy land where nothing is as it seems.
Welby was neither speaking nor acting as a man speaking nor acting as a man guilty of a severe cover up at the worst or a great safeguarding failure at the least. There was no real sense of penitence or shame. What a thorough disgrace.
On reflection, I wondered how he got so far in the church? Is he a well man? Chris x
@chrisstewartbenson119 Chris, he was promoted through being a part of the Iwerne public school crowd. These were over priviledged Anglican evangelicals who believed that the leadership of church and state should come from their ranks. So they worked through networks of posh influential clergy and laity to promote the likes of Welby to pisitions of leadership. I saw it first hand - Ruston took him under his wing and introduced and promoted him to the grandees of posh evangelicalism. If you did not come from that select privileged crowd, you would not get a look in. The establishment planned succession. However many of these evangelucal grandees would be turning in their graves now following Welby's apostacy and abysmal leadership.
Regarding is he a well man or not, that is questionable.
What causes me anger is there doesn't seem to be realisation of how serious this abuse is - the harm it has caused to the victims, and the damage to the Gospel. It is worth remembering that this speech in the House of Lords, came after the Archbishop's meeting with Ian Hislop, and the publicity surrounding this encounter. Where is the sense of sorrow, and grief about the harm caused, and where is the repentance?
Justin lives in his own foggy mind. I’m surprised he can even find his way around.
Welby is what happens when let managers take care of important things
Welby’s behavior was disgusting. So too the bishops behind him… but far worse the bishops and others should also resign!
The problem with Welby is pride! That's why he tries to make light of such unbelievable incompetence and to deflect responsibility. I am sure the Bishop of Kensington recognised Welby's obvious belief in his own self righteousness. Welby apparently made it known from the beginning of his ministry that he would not be happy until he was made archbishop. He is what some would describe as 'gold-plated' - whose shine is all show and exceedingly shallow. William Barclay describes such people as performing nothing more than 'theatrical goodness'. And Jesus nails it (if you'll pardon the pun) with: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me'. Some would say Welby hasn't even got as far as honoring Jesus with his words.
Welby is setting himself up for the after dinner speech market…..
My dh and I once had the chance to participate in a Holy Eucharist by the 1549 rite. Beautiful and glorious, we both agreed. Highly recommend, 10/10 would do it again!
@royquick-s5n it was over 25 years ago, and I've never had the same chance since. It was to celebrate the 450th anniversary of the first BCP, 1999.
This was damage control and spin from Welby. The clergy behind him was PR and window dressing. This was not sorrow or metanoia.😞😞
Regarding the story about the cardinal who wants to offer communion to anyone: there is a section in Dante’s inferno in which a character is preemptively forgiven by the pope for an act of betrayal. At his death, Saint Francis comes to take him to heaven, but the devil claims him as his own and he ends up in the inferno. Preemptive forgiveness is a perversion of the sacrament, as is regarding it as “magic.” A better reading of the offer of the bread and wine to Judas would be to see it as putting before Judas’s eyes the reality of his intentions and the choice set before him. He still has time to repent. If he takes the bread and wine without repenting, he takes it to his own destruction, as it says in 1 Corinthians 11:27-30. And in fact, he does end up killing himself. Peter, even though he denies Jesus, does repent and is forgiven.
THIS. I came down here to see if anyone said this. Very, very good.
I live in the parish where Welby was the priest. He earned a creditable reputation. He probably just doesn't know "how to be" right now. Glen Scrivener (Speak Life) gave a penetrating analysis of the C of E's institutional 'circling of the wagons'. More bishops must go.
This was absolutely disgusting behaviour by Welby. He was mourning his own demise not giving a thought for victims. We should each ask of ourself in any situation what would Christ do? I am in the UK and have seen this situation too many times where the church has covered up wrongdoing. I am a Christian and it makes me so sad to see the church in such a mess
I like George's comment about the march of the liturgy nazis. I think it was Bishop Gavin Reid who posed a riddle. "What is the difference between a terrorist and a liturgist? Answer - you can negotiate with a terrorist."
Lol....I was just to post that comment - glad I saw yours first.
"Where there is no vision, the people perish." The great problem with Archbishop Welby and the C of E is that it has lost its vision. Far better if he pointed out that Christ came to save us in our sinful helplessness and left the church in the world to reach out to other sinners in their helplessness. It was the failure of Welby to safeguard this fundamental mission of the church that he very properly stepped down.
he is on the side of the of the perverts as he favours the pagan Romans , the inheritors of Babalon, . Do you still not know what the WEF is ? you know like king charles . He never had a vision , apart from Gnostic satanism , grow up.
The entire elite has lost the plot
They're just petty tyrants now
Thank you, God bless you
As an English churchgoer, re cultural issues / response I would say that Welby's speech to the House of Lords on his resignation was totally inappropriate and appalling. I'm at the stage where I thought no new Welby gaffe could surprise me, but I was dumbfounded at how utterly self-centred, tone-deaf and lacking in empathy his speech was. So that's a perspective from the UK!
Please can you explain and elaborate why this church HTB, had the power to over rule the Bishop of Kensington, and get Welby into ordination? Why did they push Welby in this way? What was their agenda>
When taking the Eucharist without confession and absolution as St Paul says bring condemnation on themselves
Welby said nothing about nothing. I had to check and make sure my brain didn’t die while listening to him. His pride stifled him so much that he said nothing for the glory of God.
Welby says I saw nothing, I knew nothing, I did nothing(which is true) HA I will tell jokes and talk about revolting peasants.
As for Liturgy, I love both my BCP 2019 and use the Anglican Church of Kenya Modern Services. Both are in book form and English! Chris x
Prayer of humble access = “one of the little things we say…”
Really sad about his secretary who organises his calendar having to cancel all the bookings (not). All you can say is that based on this speech alone he was clearly completely unfit for the office. I disagree about him being "insensitive". He is actually just somebody who sees himself as born to rule, a member of an elite unanswerable to the general public.
One of the worst Archbishop of Canterburys in living memory. Shocking.
On the last item: Have these ‘priests’ never read the Scripture? Evidently not.
1 Cor 11:27-30 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
Lighten up my friend.
An absolutely valid point! Thank you!
Yes, but this admonition doesn't really apply to the C of E because it doesn't have a valid Eucharist. It has merely been play-acting since its inception.
@@jotolo1840 Don't be silly.
@@tonyoliver2750 Invalid priests means invalid Eucharist
Really enjoy your programme
The C of E hierarchy prefer 'company' men and women who will not rock the boat, will close ranks, and not spill the beans. Reform the criteria for selection, the pool from which bishops are selected, and study their track records rather than their academic qualifications or their crowd-pleasing agendas. The current process obviously has not worked and the only say the laity have is choosing from a pre-selected group of managers and hirelings rather than leaders and shepherds. It's all been a very sad joke and we are reaping the consequences.
The official languages of the Philippines are Tagalog and English. Tagalog is taught to most people in school. My wife is a native Ilocano speaker. She also speaks Tagalog and English. English is also taught in schools. If people don't speak English, they should be able to speak and read Tagalog. One of the issues is a regional/tribal issue. People are very proud of the region they come from
The wizard of ID, the king says the peasants are revolting, no the bad people in this church in England is revolting.
It is not just that all the ecclesiastical civil servants are soaking up resources, each of them also creates further work and tasks for the parochial clergy to undertake, even if it is but to read page after page of verbiage from them.
Well said
Bishop of London sat next to him looks pretty disgusted.
I personally omit the filioque when reciting the creed in my (Anglo Catholic) church, but not from a desire to be ecumenical, but because on this point I agree with the Eastern Orthodox Church. I seriously doubt that many in the congregation have given it any thought and simply recite the filioque because its in the creed in order of service book, a fact which raises an objection to the claim that what we pray is what we believe.
Jesus breathed on the apostles and said "Receive the Holy Spirit." So why do some Christians think the Spirit doesn't proceed from the Son?
@@dianastevenson131 Hi Diana, here's a very short explanation. ua-cam.com/users/shortsyV43wJC3Sdik I've also linked a short video from Patristic Nectar setting out the Eastern Orthodox position on the filioque in a little more detail. ua-cam.com/video/pPnSWArkfgM/v-deo.html
The Archbishop waited for Prince Philip to die before turning the COE property woke!
I was Anglican, now very happily Orthodox. Brother - do consider Orthodoxy ☦☦☦
@@dianastevenson131 - You are confusing the HYPOSTATIC Trinity with the ECONOMIC (in time & space) Trinity. In time and space the Holy Spirit is sent from the Father and the Son but the Holy Spirit has His being ONLY from the Father, as the Church proclaimed for the first thousand years of her life.
The filioque is heresy.
Gentlemen. You haven't quite got it. ABJ did refer previously to his shame. However, you are talking of a man who is at best in shock. And you are expecting him to be operating A1. Now. Example. In one week's time say - one of you - say - is going to resign because you have just realised that you are responsible for something that requires your resignation. No doubts. You go. Publically. In shame. On TV.
You have one day to say you won't resign. And the next day to resign. To do the right thing. Will you be shock? How will you function as you prepare to move out of your home which now - is no longer your home. Where might you you able to live?. All the plans have gone. No home now.
What can you do to comfort and protect your family - who are in shock and tears. And you worry about their mental health. Because that's a problem for one of the children. Or did you forget that? And did you forget the loss their child? And for you - will you function A1 in the midst of this? And then you show must up and make a speech which is one of your normal 'off the cuff types ' - it's all you manage just now - and of course it's wrong....and then the stones are cast at you by all. And everyone looks down and aside and has not an ounce of love in them. Just hate. And do you hate him? Or have love and pity for him. Because gentlemen - I see pride, and hate and no love. And that is the real shame. Those who should love, but reach for the stones.
Gentlemen. Walk in the shoes. Walk. For the sake of our Lord. How many strokes do you want for him? Two, six, twelve and how many days? He is a sorry sinner. And you? And me? And I must also point to you - YOU - and say - you destroyed my life. I won't say how. But your wear the collar. And you vote. And...you are part of it. But we all - under God - are. All of us are sinners. And sometimes it's dreadful. And needs dread. Do you know that one?
Crucify him once - and that's your lot. York next. And then Oxford. And on and on. The of course, look for the next type of damage. The next one to go. Witch hunt time. And we know where that takes us. Or do we?
But remember the One who could say - ''Forgive them Father - for they know not what they do''. Shame on you. ABJ is already living his shame. And will do so for the rest of his life. But you?.........
No not a British cultural thing. The lack of morals and integrity are profound. The head of the church is exact,y that. If he was 5 aware; which he clearly was, he is not a fit person in that he failed as a Christian; only the Lord can address that, he was also a massive failure even in the worldly view. He protected his own at the cost of truth and Theda age fostered in children in the churches care. The enemy has infiltrated this organization apparent from its departure from scripture and turned to the worldly cultural view. He should have resigned when he failed to preach the Lords holy word not his own. The church is held to a much higher standard by the Lord. I pray Welby relents and asks for forgiveness and pray forgiveness.
Welby messes up again.
Does this not remind us of King Saul, first King of Israel, when he was confronted by Samuel regarding sacrifice ? In short, disobedience to the Word of God. Therefore, God removed Saul from being King AND God removed His Holy Spirit away from Saul.
Limiting carbohydrate intake is a very good idea! However I think it is not a bad thing to break that rule on special occasions (not medical advice, seek advice from the relevant professionals if in doubt)
The difference between a terriorist and a liturgist is that you can negotiate with the former, not the latter. 😂
Don’t worry about the filioque, the Orthodox know that at any moment there are about 8 episcopalians who care what the Orthodox think or believe. For that matter most episcopal folks don’t believe the REST of the creed, but that doesn’t get mentioned. Trivia.
Good point. I suppose from what has taken place in the Episcopal Church within the past seventy or eighty years, it may be asked how many Episcopalians believe in the Incarnation? It seems not a few take the creeds and other traditional expressions per forma.
Heresy is never TRIVIA.
The truth is never TRIVIA.
The filioque is heresy.
Orthodoxy!!
☦☦☦☦☦☦☦
What did the Bishop of Kensington see? Perhaps he saw that Archbishop Welby lacked zeal for the holiness of God. That was an impediment to him being ordained in the first place. Did he even understand the imputed righteousness of Christ?
Doubt it, being a Holy Trinity Brompton convert.
While the apostate Justin Welby has been removed, I have ZERO confidence that a faithful minister of the gospel will be selected. It is so sad to see this once dynamic, impactful, and faithful church of Christ fall into such disrepair. Oh, Church of England return to the teachings of our Lord, return to the Orthodox Christianity that made this church a real force for good like it was in the past.
It does not surprise me that Welby denied his own responsibility & errors in handling the terrible disaster that occurred to so many young men. Why would he, he has no one pressing him to be contrite. The King should have stripped him of his position & his honour recently given him after all the King is the Supreme Governor of the C of E. This demonstrates who destitute the C of E is of moral integrity. As for Welby he is a disgrace to his calling, he denies the teaching of Holy Gospel as we have witnessed over the years. He is a Woke apology for a Priest who should have been removed years ago. Maybe we are witnessing what happens to the evil who pretend they are acting in the name of Our Blessed Lord when in fact they are the messengers of the evil one. Just let’s pray for these sinners. 🙏🙏🙏
One could tempted to say that we also have a Woke king. And Alpha is a gospel that falls short which Welby was connected to. Welby was a convenient government appointment in my opinion, a weak man.
We use Liturgy A, B & C in turn .
Thank you once again (from Oz)
The variety is great!
George, does '...all baptized Christians are welcome...' mean that you believe in baptismal regeneration? I've always found that to be a confusing invitation.
It is the standard line offered in Episcopal Churches -- not much thought on my part in repeating the standard instructions.
@@georgeconger4782
Repeating the 'standard line' doesn't necessarily mean it's the Biblical line. What about baptismal regeneration? I am seriously trying to understand this doctrine.
@royquick-s5n well, there's what St. Peter wrote -- "and this baptism, which now saves you," if I'm recalling correctly. The end of chapter three in his first epistle.
@@markfowke9747if you have access to the ACNA Catechism maybe that would help you in working through all the parts of this doctrine.
Justin Welby got an Old Etonian's Advert Calendar - all the doors were opened for him.
That is so true. I saw it happening first hand. He was introduced and promoted to a large number of evangelical grandees from the public school/Iwerne lot. It was very much a closed shop. He was lined up for high office way back in his life. I bet a few of them are turning in their graves now following his apostacy.
From an English point of view and likely any point of view, this speech was not only on this occasion inappropriate and misjudged.
This was confirmation that Welby was bereft of understanding of the scale of all his failings during his tenure.
Biblical delusion appears to have set in and understood only after others pointed it out. It is astonishing and maybe a work of grace, he so confirmed to the world and anyone who was maybe unsure, why he had to go.
Perth is a bit of an " interesting" place anyway with a Dean in tbe past who openly doubted the physical resurrection of Christ. I serm to recall that the good Archbishop and her Movement for Ordination of Women were asserting in the past at General Synod that tbey only wanted ordination and nothing more and gracious me no way could it extend over into the orthodox position on homosexuality being affected! Others asserted at General Synod that you should only stick to thr Gospels & Revelation, totally ignore Paul's Epistles and then rely on the continuing revelation of God to guide you spiritually. The thing about the CoE is that if you can't acceot responsibility for what occurred on your watch or when you were told things, it is a very sad day. The fish rots from the head. The whole premise of safe guarding and training is accountability.
I do not think Martin Seeley is sitting behind Justin Welby. Are you sure George?
No, on second thought it might be Lichfield
Great
Viva 1662 or 1928 Prayer Books.
Viva the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom!! ☦☦☦
Bishop Seely's retirement scheduled for 28 February 2025 so you might be correct about he "hanging on"
Cardinal David's views are new? Maybe to Roman Catholics, but to Anglicans? Years ago I heard Anglican seminarians discussing the relation of Communion to forgiveness. As stated in the catechism, "The inward gift signified is the Body and Blood of Christ, which are truly taken and received in the Lord's Supper by faith." If "by faith" is missing, it would seem there is no "magic." If received "by faith," it would seem there would be a prior disposition of reconciliation with God, no ands, ifs, or buts. It is stated in the catechism, "I receive God"s forgiveness," but is that not contingent on the recipient's seeking it in the first place? In regard to Judas' status during and after betrayal, what scriptural evidence do we have than Judas "repented" (Mt 27.3) and, "falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out," giving the field purchased by the thirty pieces of silver the name Field of Blood (Acts 1.18-20)? Jesus did say at the Last Supper, ". . . woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed. It would have been better for that if he had not been born." Any thing else is pure conjecture. In regard to who has received Communion, it is my understanding that among the early Christians, baptized received Communion. Those not baptized, the catechumens, left the service before that point. It would seem Cardinal David is proposing an innovation, if he is, indeed, suggesting that non-baptized should receive. 🤔
Has the young child who approached the clergy person received counseling and/or healing prayers?
Not known
That’s where the focus should be.
I think Welby is suffering from what CG Jung called "Identification with the Persona". I think maybe after a while, you lose touch with the real person that lurks behind the persona. And personally, watching that awful clip, I am not sure he is really sane.
(Comment for the algorithm).
Is he a narcissist?
Gavin really needs to come home to Holy Orthodoxy ☦☦☦
Gentlemen; Back to you once more. I - unlike you - have had a meeting with + John Kensington. And like ABJ - it was when I too was an ordinand. And I do assure you - that the 'bad pastor factor' had nothing to do with it. I can say - beyond doubt - that it turned out to be grace. God just wanted me elsewhere. +John had enough young pastors. I gave him my alternative as working with the poor. A much more difficult calling in practical terms.
For starters - find your own money, home, and carry on from there. Which I did. You see - sometimes God uses the 'management types'. And against all the odds - it was grace all the way. And I know what it means to thank God - for my going with my calling. Not sure about + John though. Did you ever meet him? Don't diss ABJ. Not Godly. See Matt 26 onwards.
George sp;oke of what people get on Sunrday morning ang Kevin added, "The Eucharist". That is one of the sad things in much of the Anglicanb world. Many churches have only the Lord's Supper on Sunday morning and most of those people don't go to church in the evenings. Thus they never experience Morning or Evening Prayer. I am very glad that I was brought up in a church where we had sung Morning Prayer twice per month, with all the richness of the 1662 service. The idea of having only the Lord's Supper as though it is more important than Morning Prayer is I believe unbiblical. Whenever we are gathered together in Jesus' he is there in the midst. He said so. Can he be more in our midst at one time than another? I understand that Cranmer believe that both Morning Prayer and teh Holy Communion are equally important. Therefore new liturgies should have good reasons if that principle is not observed.
And long live the filioque phrase!
@@royquick-s5n The rubrics in 1662 say that the parish priest is to announce in advance when the next Lord's Supper is to be celebrated and a long Exhortation is to be read on the Sunday before. The rubrics say that everyone should take part in the sacraments at least three times a year- not 52 times. If there are fewer than three present besides the priest there is to be no sacrament celebrated. The whole implication of the rubrics is that the sacrament will not be held every Sunday, and probably not very many times in the year- in parish churches, but weekly in cathedrals. The 1662 book is of course not a "Puritan" book, as we all know. The tradition of having a full Morning Prayer,. alternating with the Lord's Supper, with sung Psalm and canticles and extensive prayers was a good development based on the 1662 principles.
@@royquick-s5n Roy, your points are all interesting. We could discuss forever. My comments are pointing out the standards that still apply in much of the Anglican Communion, including here in Australia, where 1662 and the 39 Articles are (supposedly) the main standards in doctrine and practice in our national constitution. The practice varies greatly, but the doctrines and principles are supposed to align with those 17th century standards. They don't of course, as liberalism has spread through some of our down under dioceses while others have become more conservative and Protestant. By the way, I think that in general the Puritans were marvellous, but that's another story.
@@davidmorrison2739 Yes, I realize that the 1662 has been the standard for most of the Anglican Communion. In regard to adherence to 17th century standards, I suppose that it may be debated according whose perceptions, the Anglican clergy or the Puritans favoring further changes. in regard to the 39 Articles, some do not or someone does not seem to be telling the truth. Are the Bishop of Ripon, John R. H. Moorman's remarks in his A History of the Church in England that the 39 Articles "are not meant to be a formulary of the Christian faith" but "statement of the Church of England's attitude towards the doctrinal disputes which were convulsing Europe at the time" true or false? In regard to Puritans, someone is projecting an inaccurate image of them. Read alone in Moorman's history Puritan attempts to force unwanted Calvinistic reforms on the Church of England, especially during the Interregnum (Commonwealth). In the North American colonies, Puritan influence prevented arrival of bishops, Anglican or Roman Catholic, sooner than they did. One of the reasons for the recension of Massachustts' original charter was Puritan opposition to Anglicans opening a church in Boston. 🤔