Thank you. Finally someone who breaks down the siphon appropriately. This is the only part of the aquaponic system that has discouraged me to start my own.
+Chadwick Horn I will recording a new video next week with a new display that is much nicer hope you like it as well! you should see it post in the next two weeks.
I love the idea's you have and how you lay everything out. For some reason there is no sound. I'm using a Mac, I will retry with a PC and see if there is something that I can do to hear you. Great Job, Keep up the good work.
A very informative syphon video, thanks. My son-in-law and I used it to build our syphon. 2 years later, not one problem. My question is, in the summer when temps are in the 90's or more, how often per hour do you recommend a syphon occur?
As much as needed for the plants you are growing. Bigger the plant the faster it needs to flood and drain. plants like melons with long vines need to happen very fast to survive the heat.
I want to use this principle to solve a very different problem. In my application I anticipate starting the siphon may be tricky because my inflow is short bursts of 1 quart at a time. Here's the whole story: I live in a cold region and have a condensing high efficiency gas-fired furnace that produces a slow drip of water. This drip is piped to a condensate pump that has about a 1 quart reservoir. When the reservoir is full, the pump comes on and pumps that water into my sewer drain, and when that quart of water flows out my sewer pipe it freezes inside the pipe because the pipe is above the frost line and the flow is so small. If I'm home, it's no problem because periodic showers and toilet flushes and other gallon-size and multi-gallon-size water uses flush the pipe, melting the ice before it builds up too much. But if I am away for a long time and the only water going down the sewer is the little one-quart squirt every couple of hours, it can build up so much ice it actually blocks the sewer and then the drains back up and even big-volume water uses cannot reverse the process. I could just get a bigger pump with a bigger reservoir, but that would have its own difficulties. I'd rather work with the pump I have and find a way to convert these 1-quart squirts into less frequent, bigger volume flushes. I want to put the condensate pump output line into a bucket hung from the cellar ceiling and a bell siphon inside the bucket so that water goes down the drain in, say, 3-gallon batches rather than 1-quart batches. My question is: How do I size the bucket, standpipe, pressure chamber, and horizontal run on the drain line so that a 1-quart squirt of water when the water level is high will be enough to start the siphon? That 1-quart comes in forcefully, taking maybe just 10-seconds, but then stops for an hour or more. So my bell siphon has to be able to kick over into flush siphon mode with just a 1-quart/10-second input. Easy? Difficult? Impossible? Use 1/2" standpipe and 5-gallon bucket and make the horizontal run on the drain side 2 feet?
Just timed my run cycle and it is about 7 seconds, not 10. I've been trying to infer from your video how long it is from when the water begins to crest the top of the standpipe until the siphon is established. Seems like that might be 4 seconds? What would you say? How soon after the water level reaches the top of the standpipe could you turn off your pump and still get a complete flush cycle?
I wonder why he isn't using a larger diameter fitting on the top of his stand pipe inside the bell. I have found that when I go from 1/2 " to 1" at the top of my standpipe it helps to create a vortex easier, which starts the bell siphon.
Brilliant system! The first time I heard of it was a few hours ago - now my question is: Can you use this siphoning system to pump water against gravity? If you want to pump water from one container into another that is above the first - is it still possible? I can't seem to figure this out myself. I'd say that because there is vacuum inside the bell and atmospheric pressure on the outside of the pressure chamber/bell, it should be possible to pump water to such a height X that the force of gravity working on water above the level of the siphon is equal to the force of atmospheric pressure working on the entire water body in the first container (the one below, that is)
Martin I have worked on that for sometime I have pumped water against gravity and it will work but the lift is very little and it becomes very undependable.
Grow Dinner Aquaponics Sorry folks, but it is not possible to siphon water against the force of gravity. If it was, you would have the answer to the age old quest for Perpetual Motion. :O)
I'm still in my "immature youth", as most old folks would call it, so I refuse to accept the theory that you can't create perpetual motion. You can blame my physics teachers for that, since they failed at the stuff they're paid to do - explain and convince the youth of something commonly accepted, but later disproven...
My system is making me crazy. I have a 2" standpipe with a 4" Bell, I have the 1/4 turn below the table which runs perfectly horizontal for 12" then angles down and back to the fish 6' away. I can only get the siphon to trigger by adding a blast of water from the hose (about 5-8 seconds) or by lifting the bell slightly (increase vacuum pressure), both of which trigger the siphon and drain the table. I tried using a reducer on the standpipe (down to 1.5" as well as 1") which encountered the same problems/solutions as above. Do I simply need a bigger pump? I really can't figure it out. Finally, your video is incredibly informative and easily one of the best out there. Great work!
Thank you for the kind words. That is a pretty large stand pipe and pressure chamber you may want to look at reducing both. I find the bigger the stand pipe the more water flow it takes to get it started. Good luck
You've probably resolved your problem by now but you could always do a loop of pipes so theres a build up of water under your bed. If my description is confusing take a look under your sink and you'll see how it goes down and loops up. This concept helped with me.
I'd bet your standpipe is too wide. It takes a heck of an initial flow to fill a 2" pipe for however many inched it takes to left gravity take control and push everything down. I bet you could see this if you took the bell off and watched the water raise up and start to fill your standpipe ... you'd probably see a lot of air in that flow, and realize there is little chance of starting the siphon action.
Awesome video! I'm building an aquaponics system this spring using my Koi pond. Out of all the videos I've watched you explained the bell syphon perfectly. I have no more questions about that but are there certain types of fish to use or will my Koi work just fine? One more thing.......can I do an A- frame set up that dumps into grow beds ?
+Grow Dinner Aquaponics A frame structure with the PVC Pipes Could I have the water pumped up to the PVC pipes with plants and then drain into grow bed
I really enjoyed this video, thank you! I'm not sure what to do with the advil/tylenol bottle though, is it placed open-end up? I don't think I'm going to need it, but just so I fully understand. Thanks.
What Size pump are you using for the video? Awesome video and Great explanations. Answered some questions I didn't know I had yet while in the middle of making my first aquaponics set up.
What do you think about some way to cut off the water input while the system is draining so that it will drain faster? How could that be done? Like some kind of switch that will disable the power to the pump. I also do not understand your preference for the "snorkel" as opposed to just cutting holes in bottom of the outside tube, what's the reason for that, and is it as reliable to have just one small tube to break the siphon and not a wide area at the bottom of the outer tube?
justgivemethetruth I personally like the snorkel idea because you can very easily adjust the level of the water you want remaining in your grow bed. Your method would work as well, but you'd have to fabricate another bell tube if you wanted to adjust that remaining water level vs just attaching a longer or shorter piece of PVC tubing to the snorkel fitting. That's the beauty of hydro and aquaponics. There are soooo many ways to get the job done and the only limitation for setups is your imagination (and whatever Home Depot has stocked :) )
Loved the demonstration and explanation. Thank you and I'm subscribed. I do have a question: what is the purpose of the snorkel? It seems that when the water level drops below the holes bottom of the pressure chamber that the siphon would break, eliminating the need for the snorkel. Wouldn't it be simpler to cut holes in the pressure chamber at the level of the bottom end of the cycle?
what is the purpose of that thin pipe which is attached to the pressure chamber .please give me reply .iam asking this question because i cant understand english well, iam from india.
5:16 that's what she said. Great vid thanks for the clarification. How far below the top of the clay bed should the water be when at full water capacity?
would and inch of drain tubing be enough to go against a 150lph aquarium pump? its an old external filter and just making use of it instead of it in the box. it's output tubing is 9mm inner diameter.
You should be fine with it. Size of the pipe depends more on the size of the bed. The pipe needs to have the ability to drain the water that has been pumped to the bed so the more water the bed holds the more it needs to release to out run the pump. But yes I would think you will be ok.
Nice video but one correction its a vaccum chamber not a pressure. If it was pressured it would shoot off. You can tell this by trying to lift it it wants to suck back down.
Hello there sir, new subscriber, with one simple question. Why is the bell siphon neccesary at all? Iv'e seen plenty of systems that just flow continuously, so I'm really confused on that point ! Thanks very much.
i have set up a siphon like this but with smaller air tube breather,it works for one day but after that it sucks water and air and creates small gaps and it doesnt work after that?is this a problem of the tube?should i go for a bigger one in diameter?
In hot summer if you are running lots of water in large beds with large plants to help them from drying out like melons or tomatoes 8 or 10 feet tall. Then its hard to break the siphon this will make it break everytime. Its not a problem in small beds or if you have never had plants reach 10 feet tall with 100s or tomatoes.
I find if it has a slow start I need more water flow, sometimes a slow start keeps it from getting a good strong siphon and then it has a hard time with breaking at the end of siphon. To much water flow will out run the siphon and that is when the snorkel comes in good. Good luck
In hot summer if you are running lots of water in large beds with large plants to help them from drying out like melons or tomatoes 8 or 10 feet tall. Then its hard to break the siphon this will make it break everytime. Its not a problem in small beds or if you have never had plants reach 10 feet tall with 100s or tomatoes.
Grow Dinner Aquaponics I wonder if that slow to break the siphon is not just caused by water that near the end of the outflow cycle is flowing through compacted and smaller grain grow bed material, so the flow is slow and becomes close to or matched by the flow into the bed. I bet if there was a false bottom on the grow beds where water just sunk down to a clear space and it could move freedly would not have this problem.
This is the best operational explanation of a siphon I have ever seen. Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you
I agree!
Thank you. Finally someone who breaks down the siphon appropriately. This is the only part of the aquaponic system that has discouraged me to start my own.
Thank you Tony
I come back here time and time again to just watch the siphon drain cycles. I find it relaxing. :D
+Chadwick Horn I will recording a new video next week with a new display that is much nicer hope you like it as well! you should see it post in the next two weeks.
This video is GOLD. Thanks so much for your clear way of showing. I finally understand the bell-siphon. Can't wait to make mine and experiment.
Best example and instruction on this that I have ever seen. Thanks!
Extremely well done. Yes the pill bottle idea is brilliant. I had to watch that part twice before the light bulb came on.
I knew most of this but the use of a pill bottle on the snorkel is brilliant!
Thank you
This is the best explanation of the syphon I have ever seen
Thank you
This is the best siphon video I've seen, very well explained Sir!
Thank you VERY much for posting this. I've been wondering about the best RATIO for diameters and you've spelled that out perfectly for my needs.
Great video, very informative. Better then many others I have watched about this same topic! I wish there was a like button.
hank you for making such a great video. This was really nice how you used the clear pipe so we could see the whole process.
Brilliant. Great explanation, very clear and I really like your addition with the small bottle at the bottom!
Awesome explanation, I got the siphon right after this video !!! Thanks again
Adding the bottle fixed my problems. Thank you!
I love the idea's you have and how you lay everything out. For some reason there is no sound. I'm using a Mac, I will retry with a PC and see if there is something that I can do to hear you.
Great Job, Keep up the good work.
A very informative syphon video, thanks. My son-in-law and I used it to build our syphon. 2 years later, not one problem. My question is, in the summer when temps are in the 90's or more, how often per hour do you recommend a syphon occur?
As much as needed for the plants you are growing. Bigger the plant the faster it needs to flood and drain. plants like melons with long vines need to happen very fast to survive the heat.
I want to use this principle to solve a very different problem. In my application I anticipate starting the siphon may be tricky because my inflow is short bursts of 1 quart at a time. Here's the whole story: I live in a cold region and have a condensing high efficiency gas-fired furnace that produces a slow drip of water. This drip is piped to a condensate pump that has about a 1 quart reservoir. When the reservoir is full, the pump comes on and pumps that water into my sewer drain, and when that quart of water flows out my sewer pipe it freezes inside the pipe because the pipe is above the frost line and the flow is so small. If I'm home, it's no problem because periodic showers and toilet flushes and other gallon-size and multi-gallon-size water uses flush the pipe, melting the ice before it builds up too much. But if I am away for a long time and the only water going down the sewer is the little one-quart squirt every couple of hours, it can build up so much ice it actually blocks the sewer and then the drains back up and even big-volume water uses cannot reverse the process. I could just get a bigger pump with a bigger reservoir, but that would have its own difficulties. I'd rather work with the pump I have and find a way to convert these 1-quart squirts into less frequent, bigger volume flushes. I want to put the condensate pump output line into a bucket hung from the cellar ceiling and a bell siphon inside the bucket so that water goes down the drain in, say, 3-gallon batches rather than 1-quart batches. My question is: How do I size the bucket, standpipe, pressure chamber, and horizontal run on the drain line so that a 1-quart squirt of water when the water level is high will be enough to start the siphon? That 1-quart comes in forcefully, taking maybe just 10-seconds, but then stops for an hour or more. So my bell siphon has to be able to kick over into flush siphon mode with just a 1-quart/10-second input. Easy? Difficult? Impossible? Use 1/2" standpipe and 5-gallon bucket and make the horizontal run on the drain side 2 feet?
Just timed my run cycle and it is about 7 seconds, not 10. I've been trying to infer from your video how long it is from when the water begins to crest the top of the standpipe until the siphon is established. Seems like that might be 4 seconds? What would you say? How soon after the water level reaches the top of the standpipe could you turn off your pump and still get a complete flush cycle?
I wonder why he isn't using a larger diameter fitting on the top of his stand pipe inside the bell. I have found that when I go from 1/2 " to 1" at the top of my standpipe it helps to create a vortex easier, which starts the bell siphon.
Brilliant system! The first time I heard of it was a few hours ago - now my question is:
Can you use this siphoning system to pump water against gravity? If you want to pump water from one container into another that is above the first - is it still possible?
I can't seem to figure this out myself. I'd say that because there is vacuum inside the bell and atmospheric pressure on the outside of the pressure chamber/bell, it should be possible to pump water to such a height X that the force of gravity working on water above the level of the siphon is equal to the force of atmospheric pressure working on the entire water body in the first container (the one below, that is)
Martin I have worked on that for sometime I have pumped water against gravity and it will work but the lift is very little and it becomes very undependable.
I understand. I decided to go with an airlift pump instead. I appreciate your quick reply. :)
Grow Dinner Aquaponics Sorry folks, but it is not possible to siphon water against the force of gravity. If it was, you would have the answer to the age old quest for Perpetual Motion. :O)
I'm still in my "immature youth", as most old folks would call it, so I refuse to accept the theory that you can't create perpetual motion. You can blame my physics teachers for that, since they failed at the stuff they're paid to do - explain and convince the youth of something commonly accepted, but later disproven...
Very clear, very informative, thank you for posting
A lot a work wen into making this video, I meant to say an extra thank you
Thank you
My system is making me crazy. I have a 2" standpipe with a 4" Bell, I have the 1/4 turn below the table which runs perfectly horizontal for 12" then angles down and back to the fish 6' away.
I can only get the siphon to trigger by adding a blast of water from the hose (about 5-8 seconds) or by lifting the bell slightly (increase vacuum pressure), both of which trigger the siphon and drain the table.
I tried using a reducer on the standpipe (down to 1.5" as well as 1") which encountered the same problems/solutions as above.
Do I simply need a bigger pump? I really can't figure it out.
Finally, your video is incredibly informative and easily one of the best out there. Great work!
Thank you for the kind words. That is a pretty large stand pipe and pressure chamber you may want to look at reducing both. I find the bigger the stand pipe the more water flow it takes to get it started. Good luck
You've probably resolved your problem by now but you could always do a loop of pipes so theres a build up of water under your bed. If my description is confusing take a look under your sink and you'll see how it goes down and loops up. This concept helped with me.
***** Regardless of the purpose used in plumbing, it helps with this problem.
I'd bet your standpipe is too wide. It takes a heck of an initial flow to fill a 2" pipe for however many inched it takes to left gravity take control and push everything down. I bet you could see this if you took the bell off and watched the water raise up and start to fill your standpipe ... you'd probably see a lot of air in that flow, and realize there is little chance of starting the siphon action.
Can you please explain more concerning the tylenol bottle? Is it airtight or not?
Awesome video!
I'm building an aquaponics system this spring using my Koi pond.
Out of all the videos I've watched you explained the bell syphon perfectly. I have no more questions about that but are there certain types of fish to use or will my Koi work just fine? One more thing.......can I do an A- frame set up that dumps into grow beds ?
+williamfinney Koi work great have a Koi pond myself with aquaponics. Not sure what you are asking about the A frame?
+Grow Dinner Aquaponics
A frame structure with the PVC Pipes
Could I have the water pumped up to the PVC pipes with plants and then drain into grow bed
Great demonstration with clear tubes. Thank you.
I really enjoyed this video, thank you! I'm not sure what to do with the advil/tylenol bottle though, is it placed open-end up? I don't think I'm going to need it, but just so I fully understand. Thanks.
could you please provide part list of what i need to make one. if possible provide links to amazon or ebay? i really like the clear bell siphon
Thank you for sharing and doing it in a clear set up
What Size pump are you using for the video? Awesome video and Great explanations. Answered some questions I didn't know I had yet while in the middle of making my first aquaponics set up.
The pump in the video is around 300 gph. Thank you for the kind words and good luck on your new system
Thanks for posting
Very useful information
i know now what to do next year
What do you think about some way to cut off the water input while the system is draining so that it will drain faster? How could that be done? Like some kind of switch that will disable the power to the pump.
I also do not understand your preference for the "snorkel" as opposed to just cutting holes in bottom of the outside tube, what's the reason for that, and is it as reliable to have just one small tube to break the siphon and not a wide area at the bottom of the outer tube?
justgivemethetruth I personally like the snorkel idea because you can very easily adjust the level of the water you want remaining in your grow bed. Your method would work as well, but you'd have to fabricate another bell tube if you wanted to adjust that remaining water level vs just attaching a longer or shorter piece of PVC tubing to the snorkel fitting.
That's the beauty of hydro and aquaponics. There are soooo many ways to get the job done and the only limitation for setups is your imagination (and whatever Home Depot has stocked :) )
Awesome! I love the clear PVC so you can actually see how it works. Thank you so much and I hope that bell rings one day so you can get coffee! LOL.
Loved the demonstration and explanation. Thank you and I'm subscribed.
I do have a question: what is the purpose of the snorkel? It seems that when the water level drops below the holes bottom of the pressure chamber that the siphon would break, eliminating the need for the snorkel. Wouldn't it be simpler to cut holes in the pressure chamber at the level of the bottom end of the cycle?
Eric sometimes without it if the system is cycling fast its hard for it break with just the holes in the bottom.
it is well said & describe how the system works, thanks for sharing, now i can build me a grow bed, i will start subscribing on your channel,..
+Cesar Caoili Thank you
Very good demonstration.
Great vid. So many top tips.I love how he says siphon. SAIFORNN!
what is the purpose of that thin pipe which is attached to the pressure chamber .please give me reply .iam asking this question because i cant understand english well, iam from india.
Ohh this is what I needed! thank you so much
Like the clear PVC ... where did you get that from?
Online I think it cost me about $75 -100 to build the demo
Grow Dinner Aquaponics That's expensive, but a good demo.
5:16 that's what she said. Great vid thanks for the clarification.
How far below the top of the clay bed should the water be when at full water capacity?
I like to keep it about one inch
Thank you.
thanks
great video.also well explained.
would and inch of drain tubing be enough to go against a 150lph aquarium pump? its an old external filter and just making use of it instead of it in the box.
it's output tubing is 9mm inner diameter.
You should be fine with it. Size of the pipe depends more on the size of the bed. The pipe needs to have the ability to drain the water that has been pumped to the bed so the more water the bed holds the more it needs to release to out run the pump. But yes I would think you will be ok.
Nice video but one correction its a vaccum chamber not a pressure. If it was pressured it would shoot off. You can tell this by trying to lift it it wants to suck back down.
Sean Spangler I thought vacuum was a negative pressure?
Hello there sir, new subscriber, with one simple question. Why is the bell siphon neccesary at all? Iv'e seen plenty of systems that just flow continuously, so I'm really confused on that point ! Thanks very much.
+simon constant Flood and drain beds allow more oxygen to plant roots and bacteria making for a healthy system.
+Grow Dinner Aquaponics
Ah ha ! Thanks for making it clear. Cheers from Australia.
simon constant You are very welcome have fun with your aquaponics!
i have set up a siphon like this but with smaller air tube breather,it works for one day but after that it sucks water and air and creates small gaps and it doesnt work after that?is this a problem of the tube?should i go for a bigger one in diameter?
and i made the hole on the top of the siphon
notis mplampla I like it better on the side and a large tube
do you have a 30 gallon barrel that is laying on side where it is sliced in half length wise with this design need help on this.
David Zick I don't use barrels in my system.
hi,can you tell why we need to drain and fill again the grow bed. why cant we keep water at constant level?/
OXYGEN
so if i am flooding my beds with 1/2 in pvc, then my drain needs to be 1" ??
that is what he explains.
vasanth prabu Elumalai why is that? wouldn't that have more to do with the flow rate into the growing bed than the size of the input pipe?
great video thanks
Thank you !
Great Video!! God Bless!! :D
Why do you like to keep an inch of water in bed, wouldn't that cause root rot?
Just what I like for myself mostly in case a pump stops a little water in bed for big plats to drink from.
220 V?
NO volts PVC pipe
thank you
execellent thanks
The snorkel tube is an unnecessary complication. Without it, the siphon will break as soon as air enters the chamber.
In hot summer if you are running lots of water in large beds with large plants to help them from drying out like melons or tomatoes 8 or 10 feet tall. Then its hard to break the siphon this will make it break everytime. Its not a problem in small beds or if you have never had plants reach 10 feet tall with 100s or tomatoes.
I wish your audio was better.
We are doing as new video with our new camera soon
My siphon won't break. I'll try Snorkels, hope it helps.
I find if it has a slow start I need more water flow, sometimes a slow start keeps it from getting a good strong siphon and then it has a hard time with breaking at the end of siphon. To much water flow will out run the siphon and that is when the snorkel comes in good. Good luck
Snorkels work
Yep...too complicated...you only need the slots at the bottom to break the pressure! Good vid tho ;)
In hot summer if you are running lots of water in large beds with large plants to help them from drying out like melons or tomatoes 8 or 10 feet tall. Then its hard to break the siphon this will make it break everytime. Its not a problem in small beds or if you have never had plants reach 10 feet tall with 100s or tomatoes.
Grow Dinner Aquaponics I wonder if that slow to break the siphon is not just caused by water that near the end of the outflow cycle is flowing through compacted and smaller grain grow bed material, so the flow is slow and becomes close to or matched by the flow into the bed.
I bet if there was a false bottom on the grow beds where water just sunk down to a clear space and it could move freedly would not have this problem.
Thank you!