Great video! I would add that cwc can be used for damage, it's just that it as build that has close to nothing similar to coc build. What you do to make cwc work for damage is basically use two damage skill that cover each other (in contrast to cwc which is just a single damage skill and a trigger skill). I haven't played it in a while but usually the most obvious option were incinerate with blazing salvo, and lightning tendrils with arc. The main point is to scale the damage of both skills and while one skill is good for single target the other is good for clear. Mind you is not a meta defining top tier archetype. But cwc is still a viable archetype imo, probably better than self cast, but not by a lot
There was a time when CwC - Scorching Ray - Whispering Ice was a thing. Cause you playes as an int stacker it was quite hard to get alot of cast speed or crit/crit multi, so the CwC was the best option to have high boss damage. Clear was no issue, cause one ice storm cleared the whole screen. So you only needed to channel scorching ray for 0,35 sec. Was a fun build but atm power cahrges and crit are sooo easy to get and so it outperforms CwC.
I haven't tried the no avoid, however, I have tried to go coc for my build, and it was slightly slower than cwc. In order to get more casts, I had to sacrifice damage and also the intrinsic value of dealing screen damage at all times. Spawns die off screen behind me in cwc, while coc, I have to have a target to hit.
Well, this Video is legit for 3.18. before that League it was much closer together and much more powerful, both, the cwc and the coc. Sadly as all fun mechanics it got nerfed to the ground :(
I have always gone self cast until I could switch to CoC on those sorts of builds. I would be interested to see a way to make cast on kill viable. That always sounded like a neat way to trigger Volatile Dead
CWC with VD is actually really nice for levelling. You can load up on VD's before a boss phase starts for good damage and the VD's also wander off and take out trash as you head through the zones so you level nice and quickly. Needs a few sockets but can be very smooth. The sounds are annoying though
What do you think about a life based coc fr going for 90% chaos res and cranking up the Life recoup like octavians self cast version? You coul also use the Doppelganger guise for the 40% less chaos damage taken
@@Tenkiei im not sure about the total survivability but with divine flesh you halve the Penetration of bosses/monsters, ci melding would still be stronger defensively but the life Version could be different take and you also get alot more flat dmg from life than from es
@@Tenkiei oh so it is multiolicative after that 🤔 yeah than stasis prison is also nice, but then no 40%less dmg taken, would need to test both. You have a lot of currency to test that idea 🤣
It's much easier to do small tweaks to an expensive build in order to have it working on a base level with cheap gear than change something so core to it like coc. Ungil's harmony can power coc during leveling even. I dunno your build but I assume that you're gonna be getting a lot of crit on the tree. Going cwc means you'd have to change all that which basically makes it a different build and possibly you couldn't find decent nodes nearby to replace them even.
Thank you for this, you explained the difference quite clearly for people like me to make the choice. Can you please comment on how battlemage cry works and how that is different from coc and cwc? Also if you can please make a video about the different warcries and how they function and can be used effectively.
You can test the difference between battlemage cry and CoC by using the gem in game, just go to blood aqueducts with a tabula rasa on and swap gems around. As for warcries, that’s something that you can research via the poe wiki. To make an entire video explaining these things would take an incredible amount of time as opposed to something you can solve yourself in about 10 minutes. Ps. Sorry if I come across as rude or harsh I’m just trying to be helpful, I am aware sometimes I can come off as aggressive. Edit: for wiki, use the new wiki and not the old one. The old one is really unreliable but the new one has proper information. If you don’t mind spending some time learning how to navigate it, poedb is probably the best place to look.
@@jordanlobo4680 i respect your opinion but id like to point out that all the information in this video is also available in relevant online resources, however, with good content creators they summarise information in a clear and concise way that can be used as a quick reference guide especially for players new to game mechanics. On your second point, I have tried doing multiple things with battlemage cry and test them but somehow the damage isn't really there so it makes me wonder I am doing it wrong or if its just a skill that is inherently weak. I would like opinion of other more experienced players. If I came off as someone lazy who wasn't willing to read things I apologize for that.
Isn't cwc general's cry stil viable on something like zerker? I haven't tried since 3.16 but they didn't nerf it too hard did they? The cool down for general's cry is awful thou, it's also a bit of a strange skill te begin with. But that's why we love PoE right? Taking something and trying to perfect it :D
Might be, if it's really budget. I see it as a starting point. If I wanted to play forbidden rite, as an leauge strater, or just didn't want to reroll an DD(one of builds) into FR I would go for CWC for the win, no "hit's can't be evaded" (3ex craft) or crit check, It's an really good bottom line, to try the build, before strating to put currency into it, like Mageblood, 20% CDR boots and awakned gems it would make the build more or less the price of an ES on hit watcher eye, could do it with some rare jewels but that would really scrape the bottom a bit. Yes it would be easier(and or cheaper) to play DD and farm to get what's needed, but if FR is the build someone want to play, then it's an alright base line, not great but doable.
Nice video, very informative, a small criticism I'd have is that the speaking sounds a bit robotic or it seems very obvious that you are reading a script with some awkward pauses here and there.
I done coc purifying flame for 2 leagues in a row but could never get the defenses working right with martyr of innocence. And the damage capability seemed low without 40ex investment. Even with 20ex I couldn't down maven. But it was most likely because I was just building wrong idk. I like the synergy I was going for as I could do red maps easy but it just didn't scale for me late game
cww just sucks they nerved the dmg of it together with all other trigger skills while spellslinger and cwc allready were the worst ones you need a spell and a suppot and another spell and then you only have 3 supports left... and then only 3 trigger / sec and a low pool of usefull support gems ( infused channeling for example will do nothing for the trigger)
Great video!
I would add that cwc can be used for damage, it's just that it as build that has close to nothing similar to coc build. What you do to make cwc work for damage is basically use two damage skill that cover each other (in contrast to cwc which is just a single damage skill and a trigger skill). I haven't played it in a while but usually the most obvious option were incinerate with blazing salvo, and lightning tendrils with arc.
The main point is to scale the damage of both skills and while one skill is good for single target the other is good for clear. Mind you is not a meta defining top tier archetype. But cwc is still a viable archetype imo, probably better than self cast, but not by a lot
As of 3.17 that sort of archetype got killed off because they buffed self-cast significantly.
I'm glad Neelix found a new hobby after crossing the delta quadrant
I got triggered because you weren’t pressing V to deploy explosives.
and that is by design
@@Tenkiei what’s the benefit? 😂
@@yoghurt8397 my own entertainment. I find it hilarious that this one specific thing bothers so many people so much.
@@Tenkiei 😂😂😂 My man… thanks for your content! Always classy.
@@yoghurt8397 thanks!
There was a time when CwC - Scorching Ray - Whispering Ice was a thing. Cause you playes as an int stacker it was quite hard to get alot of cast speed or crit/crit multi, so the CwC was the best option to have high boss damage. Clear was no issue, cause one ice storm cleared the whole screen. So you only needed to channel scorching ray for 0,35 sec.
Was a fun build but atm power cahrges and crit are sooo easy to get and so it outperforms CwC.
That's the thing about PoE, stuff always changes.
Absolution triggered by cast-while-channelling works very nicely on a holy relic minion build.
I haven't tried the no avoid, however, I have tried to go coc for my build, and it was slightly slower than cwc. In order to get more casts, I had to sacrifice damage and also the intrinsic value of dealing screen damage at all times. Spawns die off screen behind me in cwc, while coc, I have to have a target to hit.
Well, this Video is legit for 3.18. before that League it was much closer together and much more powerful, both, the cwc and the coc. Sadly as all fun mechanics it got nerfed to the ground :(
Just watched your legue start to red maps 10 tips and was a huge help for me as a new player , can i ask what is the build playing in the video ?
CoC Forbidden Rite
I have always gone self cast until I could switch to CoC on those sorts of builds. I would be interested to see a way to make cast on kill viable. That always sounded like a neat way to trigger Volatile Dead
CWC with VD is actually really nice for levelling. You can load up on VD's before a boss phase starts for good damage and the VD's also wander off and take out trash as you head through the zones so you level nice and quickly. Needs a few sockets but can be very smooth. The sounds are annoying though
What do you think about a life based coc fr going for 90% chaos res and cranking up the Life recoup like octavians self cast version? You coul also use the Doppelganger guise for the 40% less chaos damage taken
I'm not sure you'd survive 10 triggers/second without Stasis Prison.
@@Tenkiei do you get any benefit with going above 100% recoup?
@@Tenkiei im not sure about the total survivability but with divine flesh you halve the Penetration of bosses/monsters, ci melding would still be stronger defensively but the life Version could be different take and you also get alot more flat dmg from life than from es
@@hkgaming2842 The benefit of going over 100% is self-damage heals you
@@Tenkiei oh so it is multiolicative after that 🤔 yeah than stasis prison is also nice, but then no 40%less dmg taken, would need to test both.
You have a lot of currency to test that idea 🤣
It's much easier to do small tweaks to an expensive build in order to have it working on a base level with cheap gear than change something so core to it like coc. Ungil's harmony can power coc during leveling even. I dunno your build but I assume that you're gonna be getting a lot of crit on the tree. Going cwc means you'd have to change all that which basically makes it a different build and possibly you couldn't find decent nodes nearby to replace them even.
COC is always so invest heavy and i havent been able to make a tanky char with it just yet.
Thank you for this, you explained the difference quite clearly for people like me to make the choice.
Can you please comment on how battlemage cry works and how that is different from coc and cwc? Also if you can please make a video about the different warcries and how they function and can be used effectively.
You can test the difference between battlemage cry and CoC by using the gem in game, just go to blood aqueducts with a tabula rasa on and swap gems around. As for warcries, that’s something that you can research via the poe wiki. To make an entire video explaining these things would take an incredible amount of time as opposed to something you can solve yourself in about 10 minutes.
Ps. Sorry if I come across as rude or harsh I’m just trying to be helpful, I am aware sometimes I can come off as aggressive.
Edit: for wiki, use the new wiki and not the old one. The old one is really unreliable but the new one has proper information. If you don’t mind spending some time learning how to navigate it, poedb is probably the best place to look.
@@jordanlobo4680 i respect your opinion but id like to point out that all the information in this video is also available in relevant online resources, however, with good content creators they summarise information in a clear and concise way that can be used as a quick reference guide especially for players new to game mechanics.
On your second point, I have tried doing multiple things with battlemage cry and test them but somehow the damage isn't really there so it makes me wonder I am doing it wrong or if its just a skill that is inherently weak. I would like opinion of other more experienced players.
If I came off as someone lazy who wasn't willing to read things I apologize for that.
Isn't cwc general's cry stil viable on something like zerker? I haven't tried since 3.16 but they didn't nerf it too hard did they? The cool down for general's cry is awful thou, it's also a bit of a strange skill te begin with. But that's why we love PoE right? Taking something and trying to perfect it :D
Wanted to try coc fr this league but it became way too meta
Might be, if it's really budget.
I see it as a starting point. If I wanted to play forbidden rite, as an leauge strater, or just didn't want to reroll an DD(one of builds) into FR I would go for CWC for the win, no "hit's can't be evaded" (3ex craft) or crit check, It's an really good bottom line, to try the build, before strating to put currency into it, like Mageblood, 20% CDR boots and awakned gems it would make the build more or less the price of an ES on hit watcher eye, could do it with some rare jewels but that would really scrape the bottom a bit.
Yes it would be easier(and or cheaper) to play DD and farm to get what's needed, but if FR is the build someone want to play, then it's an alright base line, not great but doable.
Nice video, very informative, a small criticism I'd have is that the speaking sounds a bit robotic or it seems very obvious that you are reading a script with some awkward pauses here and there.
I done coc purifying flame for 2 leagues in a row but could never get the defenses working right with martyr of innocence. And the damage capability seemed low without 40ex investment. Even with 20ex I couldn't down maven. But it was most likely because I was just building wrong idk. I like the synergy I was going for as I could do red maps easy but it just didn't scale for me late game
Hoe can i get a pob for this build pleaseeee 😢😢😢😢
cww just sucks they nerved the dmg of it together with all other trigger skills while spellslinger and cwc allready were the worst ones you need a spell and a suppot and another spell and then you only have 3 supports left... and then only 3 trigger / sec and a low pool of usefull support gems ( infused channeling for example will do nothing for the trigger)