I spent 7 years working at a race car manufacturer designing and building steering and suspension, in my time I have seen some real horror stories of amateur builds. This is probably one of the most informative and educational videos available for the amateur builder (and some so called professionals) Please remember technically, DOM is not a type of steel tube, but rather the process in which the tube is finished. The first stages of manufacturing are identical to ones used to make electric resistance welded tube, but in the finishing stages the entire flash weld is removed and the tube is cold drawn over a mandrel. The cold drawn process provides the tube with better dimensional tolerances, improved surface finish and the strongest weld strength achievable. DOM is often incorrectly referenced as “seamless tube” when it actually does have a seam (although it is almost invisible). FIA and NHRA Regulations provide specs for a multitude of Motorsport applications and most downloads are free. Thank you Greg for another Educational, informative episode, please keep up the good work. P.S. I received my sticker here in the UK yesterday, Many thanks.
Thanks for the kind words and all the great info you added. It’s very common to see guys in their backyard to use HREW and even schedule 40-80 pipe for cages. Combine that with poor quality welds and you have a recipe for disaster. I am hoping the video reaches a bunch of people to help them do the best they can on their projects. I will be doing a roll cage video in the future and will be sure to cover your points in it to further clarify the tube differences. Also, glad you got the sticker 😀👍.
Thank you so much for spending the time to make this well produced video Greg. I would like to add that in my experience with racing and race car fabrication that many times the weakest link is not at the weld but at the attachment point for the rod end itself. It this attachment point is in single shear it is more likely to fail than if it is in double shear. I would highly recommend Carroll Smith's Books as reference materials.
Glad you liked it 😀. If you decide to tackle such a thing in the future make sure to do some test welds and lookout for the things you say in the video. Stuff with liability like those joints aren’t too hard to weld, but you want to make sure of the results you’re getting. Knowing if you’re welds are good or less than good will give confidence to tackle harder jobs 😀👍
Thank u Greg for each an one of these lessons to all of us starter welders Safety first always an knowledge of both ur skills An equipment to do liability welds Thank u God Bless🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Super interesting and informative with some really valuable highlights. And actually fun just listening to, the rich language being a big part of it. Thank you, Greg!
Glad to hear the info helped you out. With a bit of practice I am sure you will be able to weld some links up without issue. It really would pay to practice on just putting down welds on the same diameter tube and then switch to an actual joint. It wouldn’t hurt to do a test joint and cut it open to see what it looks like. It take a bit of work but the end result will be you will have dialed in joints that will be strong as hell 😀👍
Glad you like the sticker 😀👍. It makes me happy knowing people all over are using the videos on the channel as motivation to get out and build stuff. Congrats on being UA-cam certified as a welder lol.
Good stuff Greg. My preference on a joint like that, is to put a strong chamfer on the tube, to make that "V" more open, which makes it easier to completely melt in the bottom of the valley, without needing excessive heat to do so, for the root pass. Yes, it means more fill will be needed, but you'll have that root pass in there to protect the threads from melt through, for the hot/fill pass(es).
No doubt beveling can help. There are two things to watch for. More weld can mean more shrinkage and thus more issues with threads being warped/needing to be chased. A wider bevel can cause more fusion into the tube over the fitting because the fitting has so much more mass. The biggest thing is to not have a lack of fusion on anything which will reduce the actual strength hugely. Sounds like you found what has worked well for you and no reason to change it up 👍
@@makingmistakeswithgreg All great points Greg! I had to laugh at myself, when you cautioned against having the threaded shank of the rod end in while welding( which is solid advice, by the way ). Just made that very mistake last week while welding an O2 sensor bung in a motorcycle header( all 304 SS ). I left the bung plug screw in the bung to help contain the Argon purge gas in the head pipe. Ya, it became fused, what a dumb ass! Had to grind it off and do it again. This time it was a wadded up ball of aluminum foil plugging the hole. Anything worth doing, is worth doing twice!
Hey Greg, why dont you build a basic bend test jig? I did for my own testing (also for qualifying procedures for my family business). I'm sure a cut and etch followed by a bend test will tell a lot. Could do nick break tests as well.
I definately will do that. I have bent a lot of fillet welds to demonstrate strength but I have not done a conventional bend test. Mostly laziness is why I haven’t build such a setup lol. Thanks for some motivation to go out and do it lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg For mine I built it out of scrap metal in about an hour or so.. just used a basic bottle jack to push the coupon through. Not adjustable for different bend radius, went with the typical ASME/AWS because it's a tighter bend than API. And what you can do with butt welds. For full penetration without a backing strap, you can gouge and back weld, unless you're specifically testing open root or with a backing that needs to be removed. For testing, I'd say polish and etch the straps before bending. See how the surfaces of the weld look, then when you bend it, see if that reveals anything new OR how any existing flaws are effected. I wouldn't make any mention on pass/fail criteria unless we were talking specific codes, because there is variation between different code books in regards to that. I do a lot of my own experimentation and weld testing and can only imagine what kind of hijinks I would get up to with someone as curious as you lol
Ive been getting into a lot of die welding at work recently, big 6,000 pound pieces of steel milled out to be a mold for it or milled out to be a die shoe. I just cant get aluminum down, i can do 300 amp tig welds on these giant pieces of steel that have to be absolutely perfect but i cant get my aluminum to look nice, any tips? maybe a tips and tricks video in the future for tig aluminum?
@@Failure_Is_An_Option Yeah, no doubt, I was just wanting to see if its something greg would ever consider doing or has ever thought about doing, or if he has any tips he can provide, his explanations are usually really in depth and easy to understand.
Don’t feel bad that your aluminum tig isn’t as good as you want it to be, I met tons of guys that could weld circles around me on steel but couldn’t do much with aluminum. Aluminum tig comes down to these things: A/c balance being in a proper range, proper arc gap, proper tungsten setup, proper filler size, and proper surface prep. The aluminum must be clean or it welds poorly, so clean it the best you can (green scotch brite pad, acetone, stainless brush, etc). The machine setup is a whole ball of worms because it’s very difficult to understand what settings actually do, and they all matter significantly. With DC tig it’s simple, it’s you and the arc. More amperage is more heat and a wider arc cone. You can hold a tight arc and not contaminate the tungsten. Well with aluminum you weld it with a/c. You can adjust the ratio of EN (heat from the tungsten to the material) and EP (heat from the work to the tungsten (that cleans the surface oxide). You can adjust the frequency of how many times per second it switches between the two. You can even adjust the amperages on both of those independently with some machines. That’s a lot to understand, but what you need to keep in your mind is you need 75% (plus or minus 5-10%) of EN and the remaining 25% or so as EP (cleaning). If you have too much cleaning too much heat goes into the tungsten and it melts. Too little cleaning and you get a lot of surface oxides. Most more modern machines can adjust this ratio. When it comes to a/c frequency lower is better for thick material (40-60hz) and higher (120hz+) is better for thin. Higher frequency chokes the arc cone down some. The higher the frequency the more time is spent at 0volts therefore the heat input drops as the frequency increases. Tungsten choice matters hugely. You must use 3/32 or 1/8th diameter 2% lanth or e3 type tungsten’s. Thoriated and many other types (like pure) won’t hold up well. For amperage below 120a I run a point on a modern machine. Older transformer machines you typically need to run a ball so the tip doesn’t melt. For above 140-160a I tend to run a mini ball on the tungsten for modern machines. I find the arc to be more stable. Arc gap is a weird one with aluminum. You must run a longer arc gap than on steel. Because electrons are flowing from the base material to the tungsten, if you hold a tight arc it will tend to contaminate the tungsten. So run a slightly longer arc gap, 3/32 gap would be a good starting point. Filler rod wise always use one diameter bigger rod than you’re used to on the same material thickness of steel. 3/32 filler is great on say 1/8th material. For 3/16th and thicker 1/8th rod is better. Keep in mind aluminum weld is 2-3 times wider than a steel tig weld, thus you need both a bigger diameter wire and to push more of it to make the weld. Amperage is a big factor. You can literally weld 1/8th aluminum at 200amps depending on the joint. 25% of the heat you input is somewhat wasted in the area around the weld and heating the tungsten, and then aluminum probably conducts heat 3+ times better than steel. Then ontop of all of that the a/c arc is wide and tries to melt a big area. All these things come together to make it tough to weld aluminum that’s 3-16th and thicker. Now that you understand all of that let’s put it together. When welding aluminum start at 75% EP 25% EN, 60 or 120hz. Filler rod diameter should be 3/32 on 3/16th and under, and you need to push a fair amount of filler. You need to hold a slighter longer arc gap than on steel. When it comes to actual techniques I do have some tips that should help. Think of aluminum tig more as a torch than as a precise instrument. Dc tig is a fine tip pen, ac tig is wide tip magic marker. You must more or less nudge the ac arc in the area you want it to go. You must move slower than on steel, give it time for the molten pool to flow out. Thinking of it now it actually is more similar to oxy fuel welding or even better yet brazing than it is to dc tig. More amperage means wider arc, too low of amperage and the arc will more or less exist as a bolt of lightening that wanders. Increasing amperage will often cause the arc to move into a “cone” state instead of a wandering arc. This is especially true when the molten pool shows up. When the molten pool shows up you want to increase the amperage significantly because it will stabilize the arc into a proper cone. Beyond what I have mentioned expect to be frustrated a bunch. I will be completely honest, I was able to catch onto aluminum very fast and I am not exactly sure why. Many people I know that are far more skilled than I am with other welding types aren’t as good as I am at tig aluminum. I am hoping what I mentioned will open the door to some things you’re doing wrong or things to do a bit better. Aluminum is definitely one of those things that everything must be right or it just doesn’t work well. Dc steel is far more forgiving, the steel talks to you so much more (aluminum doesn’t produce much of heat affected zone colors, welding temp colors, or even indications things are too hot), and it requires so much fewer settings. So at the end of the day don’t be discouraged, focus on what I mentioned and practice a bunch. It will come to you. Just think of it more like brazing with a wandering arc and less like a precision instrument.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg After applying this to some practice coupons at work earlier today, i ended up swapping my tungsten from thoriated to lanthinated, balling my tungsten, and keeping a much longer arc, and it now looks significantly better, i appreciate the tips and how easy you made it to understand.
I enjoyed the topic. The profile inspections and cuts are my favorite part of the channel. Do you see getting a small rotary table one day? Do you use naval jelly or muratic acid on inspection cuts?
I use naval jelly because it’s easy to get and on warm steel it works great. On stainless it tends to not be strong enough though lol. If I had a bunch of parts to make or a bigger need for a rotary table i would definitely buy one. I have wanted one for a while but haven’t found the right one (for cheap enough lol).
Cool stuff in this video. I think I'll never get into racing but this topic can be transfered to many other things such as repairs an top links of farm machinery that get smashed up very good also. In my area it is more likely to get precision tubing in all thinkable dimensions than pipe. Chose outside diameter and wallthickness in Millimeter and you are right ok the money. Pipes for Installation an the other side is measured imperial here. Same for pipes for construction. Although they are Measured in mm sometimes they have "weird" readings with fracrions of millimeters because the measurement bases on imperial numbers.... Confusing sometimes. 😂 Got your sticker in the mail the other day, many thanks! With this on the good I gained the motivation to finish up my recent project with TIG instead of doing the tagging and visible welds with TIG and all the structural stuff with MIG like I planned initially. It was vers good practice (and a valuable lessons in weld distorsion and penetration-welded parts upsede down so now the root is visible) 😆 got the paint on it tonight and will put it into service tomorrow (cabinet for my drill press)
I have noticed you have been using the Miller Digital Infinity hood in several videos. Has it become your hood of choice in the shop, or just testing for a future followup helmet video? I have not had good luck leaving a bolt or threaded inserts when welding components with threads. They usually deform and jam, and I can’t get them apart without a lot of difficulty. I’ve learned to be careful about not “cooking” the metal, and have better luck taking my time and stitching it in sections 180° out from each other to minimize distortion.
That can work. It gives a wider area for the molten pool to flow out and that will help with fusion. Much like welding on a flat plate is easy for a weld to spread out and fuse but welding a tight bevel will often result in a lack of fusion.
Naval jelly will etch steel in seconds if it’s hot, a couple minutes if it’s cold. I generally let it cool after welding, sand/grind the weld to polish it and quickly etch it. Sometimes the welds aren’t very visible with lower strength acids like naval jelly, stainless and many tig welds in specific.
Would there be benefit to grinding a bevel on the tube? More filler to put it but penetration at the root should be easier to achieve. And then what about flux core, I know people generally hate it, but would it work as well or better than the wire feed with gas? On the thinner ends, would it make sense to get some right and left hand bolts to thread in while welding? The effect might be like welding thicker metal and produce cold results but would prevent melting out the threads.
So grinding a bevel can have some downsides. The main one comes from additional weld metal being needed. More weld metal will mean additional shrinkage and that can cause issues with the threads. Not only can the threads get pushed out but they can get drawn closer, which ends up being an issue for a tap. Chasing the threads will cause a lot of the thread to be removed leaving far less tooth mass. More penetration is also not stronger because you’re limited by the tube thickness. A great example would be the mig weld that was run at 375in/min. That weld is slightly over the tube wall thickness and making it bigger will not increase strength because the tube is the limiting factor. Beveling the tube may also cause the weld to melt it more than the fitting. Even though the fitting is beveled in relation to the tube, it’s actually a very thick mass and a weld will much rather melt the thinner tube. Again it can work doing a bevel, just expect to have to make some changes to get it to work reliably. Using a bolt in the threads could help, the issue is finding left hand bolts in the size needed is something hardware stores generally don’t sell. It would beat wrecking the heat treatment on the heim joint threads though lol. As far as flux core is concerned, based on my experience that weld (as seen in the video) would produce porosity in the weld. Anytime you use Gasless flux core and weld a fairly narrow beveled section the weld becomes thick. When a Gasless flux core weld is thick (root to face of weld) there tends to be trapped gas that turns to porosity. Beveling the pipe would be the only hope to get flux core to produce clean welds on that joint. I do believe it could make strong enough welds provided they are mostly free of defects.
Love these welding videos! With mig welding every video I've watched says amp this and amp that my machine only has a dial that says volts? and I just burn holes in the metal, old school lincoln idealarc sp-200, I've about giving up on mig!
MiG is generally setup with wire feed and voltage control. Amperage is generally only used to give a reference on the size of welder needed to weld something. MiG machines typically come in 140,180,200,220 amp sizes on the hobbyist level machines. The actual amperage used is dependent on wire feed speed. Higher wire feed speed means more amperage is required to keep the wire from shorting out. On thinner material low voltage and wire feed must be used. The voltage mostly controls the width of the weld. Thin material needs between 13-17 volts and the wire feed will be significantly reduced from 1/8th or bigger material. The key is to make a weld with settings that almost blow a hole but more fairly fast/consistent so it doesn’t. Thin material is hard to learn to weld on but once are successful it’s not that hard to do consistently.
Greg, I hope you are doing well. I been stick welding non stop for 3 days and trying out different rods starting with 3/32 rods of 6011, 6013, 6014, 7018, and out of all these rods I have found the 6011 rods to be very violent compared to the other rods and my welds with the 6011 look like they were BBQ’’d or marked up with burnt charcoal. Under to hood the puddle looks like it’s gouging my 1/4 plate and when I stopped mid rod I noticed the 6011 rod was blacked and had an actual flame to it. Any suggestions to what may be causing this? Like I stated before, I welded with the other rods and had no issues. The 6011 rods that I am referring to were purchased at harbor freight and are the Vulcan brand. I bought a 5 lb pack of 6011 3/32 that are Hobart brand and I am a bit discouraged on opening it and getting the same result. I am running on 70-100 amps. I even lowered amperage but that only made it difficult to sustain the arch. I hope this makes sense.
I had the same terrible results with HF 6011 rods, but good luck with their 6013 and 7018 rods. Go figure… I have tried Hobart, Forney and they were ok, but temperamental to me. If you have a Matheson Welding Supply (they mainly supply gasses, but do carry many consumables) near you, try their Matheson brand rods, but be aware, some are products of China, and some are products of India, and I have found the latter to be the best, and interestingly, the rods from India are vacuum packed and the Chinese are in a thin plastic (open ended) bag. Examine the box label, for where they are made. If they don’t have any in stock, they are generally pretty good about ordering some - tip: call ahead and ask if they have any in stock. With 6011, Greg once suggested they run better after they warmup and, and as he suggested, I found burning an inch off on a scrap piece of metal, it sort of conditions the flux on the rod and they start running better before. I’m not sure of the science or specific details why that is, but it works well for me, and I’ve just gotten into the habit of doing it. Credit for that goes to Greg… Thank You Greg
I'll give my opinion on that. Greg may have other suggestions. When I was running a lot of 6011 about four months ago I found that I could run the 3/32" rods at 55-90 amps, ranging from way too cold at one end of the range, to way too hot at the other. If you are welding 3/16" or thicker plate then the range from 70-80 amps should produce a good bead in the horizontal position that is about 1/4 to 3/8 in. wide. Running up into the 80-90 amp range produces a very wide, violent puddle that's hard to control, sags some, and overheats the rod.
@@fastbusiness hello. Thanks for the tip. Greg actually posted a video about the dreaded 6011 rods and in the video he actually used a 3/32 electrode. I went ahead and purchased some other brands of 6011 and I will try to use the methods he described in the video on producing a somewhat respectable bead. In a nutshell, he stated to run the rod as low as possible and he reassured me that the 6011 is a humbling rod in that it points out very subtle details in your technique as far as arch length and angle of holding the electrode and speed of running the electrode. But I do appreciate the community’s and Greg’s suggestions and input. It’s making me a better welder for sure.
@@michaelwhiting878 hello. Thanks for sharing so much information with me. I did purchase other brands of 6011 to ensure that I wasn’t dealing with a defective pack of electrodes. I also came across one of Greg’s videos that goes into depth on welding with 6011 and I will probably go back to my histories and watch it again. It’s funny that he states in the video that I will not be a decent 6011 welder overnight. He puts it this way: I will probably have to burn at least 20 lbs of 6011 electrodes to make any kind of noticeable improvement. And I do agree with that. I look at spending 90-100 dollars on 6011 electrodes as an investment to learning how to weld with a difficult electrode and if I can do that, then I can probably have no issues welding other electrodes, no matter the size. If that makes sense. Thanks.
@@NeonBoom2586 If you have not already, I suggest watching the video he made called "How to weld with 6011" ua-cam.com/video/vK7rJAuoPJE/v-deo.html It is in his playlist "How to stick weld course." The 6011 and 6010 run a violent, spattering puddle compared to 6013 or 7018 and won't ever make a bead as smooth as either of those two. In the beginning, it seems like all the little details are critical, such as arc length, rod angle, travel speed, work angle and amperage. Actually, 6010/11 is one of the more forgiving rods on all those parameters. After you gain a little more experience with 6011 you will find that you can make an acceptable weld with it in almost any situation, in any position, and on any condition of steel. It won't ever win any beauty contests, but it may get the job done when nothing else will.
any thoughts on drilling holes in the tube and plug/rosette welding in addition to welding around the joint? That seems to be the popular thing to do for folks building jeeps.
The issue with doing that is the threaded portion isn’t very long. Inorder to get a plug weld that would actually melt any decent amount of the insert to the tube you would need a decent size hole. The end result would be likely to cause thread issues too. I think a lot of people that plug weld the joints don’t realize how little fusion that plug will have and how little strength it would really add. If you have decent fusion to the tube to insert very little will be gained doing a plug weld.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg thanks for the reply! I might continue to do this, as it does serve as a 'tack weld' to hold it in place and you don't have to run over that tack weld :D
Anything that would work as a heat sink will reduce the chance of the threads deforming. However if you ran too much gap and/or too hot you could cause the rod to get stuck inside. It might sound crazy but weld metal can completely deform stuff you wouldn’t think would be possible lol. The only part with a threaded rod that might be difficult to locate is reverse thread. Typically you use one straight and one reverse joint to be able to adjust the length of the link by spinning it (great for adjusting steering).
Thinking about up sizing a diff. for a jeep and I don’t think my 200 amp mig. welder is enough do you think that a 250 amp Lincoln ideal arc would be enough.
If you’re talking 1/4 wall tube and the bigger joint insert in the video a 200amp mig machine is on the edge of handling it. The mass of the threaded insert is so much that it will pull heat out and cause a lack of fusion. I don’t think it would be as bad as that “stack of dimes” weld but it will be tough to not have that happen. A option you would have is to run a bit wider gap than I did and a slight bevel on the tube. It won’t be a miracle worker but it would likely give a better result (it will still likely have a lack of fusion just not as bad) If you have access to 100% co2 that would also give far better fusion on thicker material. If I were you would setup a test weld of the material sizes of the joint you need to weld, weld it, and cut it in half to see what it looks like. If it looks like the cold stack of dimes you know you need more power. If it only has a slight whisper of a lack of fusion I wouldn’t worry about it much.
For stick or wire process, what do you think about starting the weld on the tube about 1/4" from the gap and bringing the weld up and into the gap so there is no 'start' within the gap?
So you can do that but there will still be somewhat of a lack of fusion as you drop in. On flat beveled plates in structural steel they do exactly that, they have “run on” and “run off” tabs on the sides where you start and end on, preventing lack of fusion from happening on the actual base metal. The problem with tube is there is no easy way to do this. Which is why having settings on the machine to increase heat input at the start makes a big difference on helping the lack of fusion. That’s also why the fewer starts/stops the better for sure. Realistically even if someone did one of them in quarters, they would still likely never break provided they were like any of the welds besides the cold mig weld.
What is your thought about getting a copper rod the correct size, thread it with either a die or on a lathe and thread it into the tube-end weld nut to reduce the effect of heat from welding? I am going to be fabricating a triangulated 4 link suspension copying mainly the early 60's Pontiac and the weld nuts are 4130 and so is the tubing. With 4130, you can reduce the weight by 30% by using thinner tubes. I am glad I purchased it before Biden screwed up America because the price now is near the unobtanium level.
Great question, here are my thoughts: you actually have an interesting “conundrum” on your hands. Thinner tube/inserts are easier to have over penetration and thread distortion on. So a heat sink would go a long way to prevent issues. However 4130 doesn’t like rapid cooling during post welding. It’s actually in your best interest to allow the weld to cool naturally. One thing I didn’t mention is often times where the threads get cooked/warp is far enough in that the strength isn’t hugely affected. The threaded section is far longer than what’s needed for maximal strength. You would be better off welding it out and cleaning the threads up after welding. Provided you didn’t really warp the fitting I think this will work the best. I would definately do a test run on a piece to see how things go. Some other tips: I am not sure what process you’re using (tig or mig) but it’s common to weld 4130 with er70 wire or er80. Avoid 4130 filler unless the whole assembly will be heat treated after welding. If the threaded insert is over 3/16th thick you will want to preheat it. I don’t have my metals book infront of me to verify, but somewhere between 300-350 degrees would be the temp target. I find that chromoly tends to undercut and poorly flow out, so if your mig welding it (and have adjustable inductance) set the inductance higher to aid in the weld pool flowing out. You want to avoid fast temp rises and drops. Chromoly was welded with oxy fuel forever without issue, and that’s because of how slow it is to rise and fall in temp. A fast drop in temp can cause brittle welds and heat affected zone areas. Realistically I think you will be just fine if you do a test run and get things dialed in 👍
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks, I am going to use my TIG welder with ER70S2. My tubing is 1.5" 4130 with 0.120"wall and the 4130 weld nuts take a 3/4" rod end so the weld nut wall will be approx 1/4". Thanks for your thoughts on this, it will help.
Call me old school (stupid) but I gas weld chromoly tube. And I use NS-102CF when MIG welding frames, cages and suspension components because of its strength, flexibility and ability to be post weld heat treated. Racing FORCES you to weld correctly. At least with the organizations I deal with, you aren't allowed to grind your welds.
Gas welding chromoly still has a huge functional place in fabrication (and in aviation). In many cases the welds of chromo are brittle in the heat affected zone and can crack/fail. Oxy fuel doesn’t have this issue due to the slow rise and fall of temperatures. It’s commonly suggested under .250 chromo doesn’t need preheat, but hitting even .120 or thinner with a blast of heat fast like with mig or tig and then letting it cool fast will produce a more brittle final product. I have argued with people for years that strength doesn’t matter much if the material fails. I rather have a gas welded chromo cage that will bend a bit more but stay together than a mig welded one that will hold more weight and then completely break. Thanks for bringing up the grinding issue, which is a huge one. Grinding a bad weld down to make it look pretty could remove a significant amount of reinforcement. It also shows that you probably don’t have the skill to weld a cage and probably shouldn’t be doing it. A racing organization that takes tech inspection serious will force people to have competent welds like you said no doubt. It beats having people get hurt that’s for sure.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Sounds like thin Chromoly is a lot like working with glass then. If you heat a water glass up fast, then throw it into some cold water, you won't have much of a glass left anymore.. LOL
You gave me an idea on that lol. I will do some destructive tests on JB weld vs something like a 1/2in long weld lol. I have no idea how strong JB weld actually is on a bend test. This should be interesting 😅😅
I spent 7 years working at a race car manufacturer designing and building steering and suspension, in my time I have seen some real horror stories of amateur builds.
This is probably one of the most informative and educational videos available for the amateur builder (and some so called professionals)
Please remember technically, DOM is not a type of steel tube, but rather the process in which the tube is finished. The first stages of manufacturing are identical to ones used to make electric resistance welded tube, but in the finishing stages the entire flash weld is removed and the tube is cold drawn over a mandrel. The cold drawn process provides the tube with better dimensional tolerances, improved surface finish and the strongest weld strength achievable. DOM is often incorrectly referenced as “seamless tube” when it actually does have a seam (although it is almost invisible).
FIA and NHRA Regulations provide specs for a multitude of Motorsport applications and most downloads are free.
Thank you Greg for another Educational, informative episode, please keep up the good work.
P.S. I received my sticker here in the UK yesterday,
Many thanks.
Thanks for the kind words and all the great info you added. It’s very common to see guys in their backyard to use HREW and even schedule 40-80 pipe for cages. Combine that with poor quality welds and you have a recipe for disaster. I am hoping the video reaches a bunch of people to help them do the best they can on their projects. I will be doing a roll cage video in the future and will be sure to cover your points in it to further clarify the tube differences. Also, glad you got the sticker 😀👍.
Thank you so much for spending the time to make this well produced video Greg. I would like to add that in my experience with racing and race car fabrication that many times the weakest link is not at the weld but at the attachment point for the rod end itself. It this attachment point is in single shear it is more likely to fail than if it is in double shear. I would highly recommend Carroll Smith's Books as reference materials.
As a beginner i really liked this lesson, thank you very much. I took down many pointers for future reference.
Glad you liked it 😀. If you decide to tackle such a thing in the future make sure to do some test welds and lookout for the things you say in the video. Stuff with liability like those joints aren’t too hard to weld, but you want to make sure of the results you’re getting. Knowing if you’re welds are good or less than good will give confidence to tackle harder jobs 😀👍
Thank u Greg for each an one of these lessons to all of us starter welders Safety first always an knowledge of both ur skills An equipment to do liability welds Thank u God Bless🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Super interesting and informative with some really valuable highlights. And actually fun just listening to, the rich language being a big part of it. Thank you, Greg!
No problem 😀👍
I got my UA-cam certified welder sticker today thanks alot Greg it's super cool
Glad you like it, I put a lot of effort into them to make the high quality/durable 😀
Thank you for this video :) trying to decide to make links for the rear of my truck. This was very informational.
Glad to hear the info helped you out. With a bit of practice I am sure you will be able to weld some links up without issue. It really would pay to practice on just putting down welds on the same diameter tube and then switch to an actual joint. It wouldn’t hurt to do a test joint and cut it open to see what it looks like. It take a bit of work but the end result will be you will have dialed in joints that will be strong as hell 😀👍
Awesome video and great information, test test test is what took away from this video.
Glad you liked the video 😀. You are correct, never assume everything is the way it should be. Testing is the only way to know 👍.
Thank you for the sticker. It’s now on my helmet. Learned a lot from you, thanks.
Glad you like the sticker 😀👍. It makes me happy knowing people all over are using the videos on the channel as motivation to get out and build stuff. Congrats on being UA-cam certified as a welder lol.
Thanks for the sticker, it arrived yesterday. I feel more confident about my welding already 😊
Sometimes all you need is a certification to help confidence lol.
Got my sticker over the weekend. Thanks for everything you do!
No problem and I am glad you got the sticker 😀
I like your style Greg, great vid.
Thanks 😀👍
Great information and content. Thanks for the video.
No problem 😀 and I am glad you like it.
Thank you for the sticker Greg. The only on my welding helmet. Have a nice day.
No problem 😀👍
As always, thanks for taking time to post! Can definitely apply this to an upcoming Jeep project!
Awesome, the Jeep project will have some solid parts for sure 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg thanks to your guidance! 😉👍
Nice one thanks for the test on the stack of dimes too. I've been calling this one ever since I saw the pretty welds, and have been told accordingly.
Great video Greg!
Thanks for the sticker and all the videos 😎👍👍
No problem 😀👍. Thanks for being invested in your skills
Thank you Greg, that was excellent!
No problem 😀
Good stuff Greg. My preference on a joint like that, is to put a strong chamfer on the tube, to make that "V" more open, which makes it easier to completely melt in the bottom of the valley, without needing excessive heat to do so, for the root pass. Yes, it means more fill will be needed, but you'll have that root pass in there to protect the threads from melt through, for the hot/fill pass(es).
No doubt beveling can help. There are two things to watch for. More weld can mean more shrinkage and thus more issues with threads being warped/needing to be chased. A wider bevel can cause more fusion into the tube over the fitting because the fitting has so much more mass. The biggest thing is to not have a lack of fusion on anything which will reduce the actual strength hugely. Sounds like you found what has worked well for you and no reason to change it up 👍
@@makingmistakeswithgreg All great points Greg! I had to laugh at myself, when you cautioned against having the threaded shank of the rod end in while welding( which is solid advice, by the way ). Just made that very mistake last week while welding an O2 sensor bung in a motorcycle header( all 304 SS ). I left the bung plug screw in the bung to help contain the Argon purge gas in the head pipe. Ya, it became fused, what a dumb ass! Had to grind it off and do it again. This time it was a wadded up ball of aluminum foil plugging the hole. Anything worth doing, is worth doing twice!
Great tips!
Thanks, I hope the video helps out a bunch of people wanting to tackle welding up suspension components 😀
Hey Greg, why dont you build a basic bend test jig? I did for my own testing (also for qualifying procedures for my family business). I'm sure a cut and etch followed by a bend test will tell a lot. Could do nick break tests as well.
I definately will do that. I have bent a lot of fillet welds to demonstrate strength but I have not done a conventional bend test. Mostly laziness is why I haven’t build such a setup lol. Thanks for some motivation to go out and do it lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg For mine I built it out of scrap metal in about an hour or so.. just used a basic bottle jack to push the coupon through. Not adjustable for different bend radius, went with the typical ASME/AWS because it's a tighter bend than API.
And what you can do with butt welds. For full penetration without a backing strap, you can gouge and back weld, unless you're specifically testing open root or with a backing that needs to be removed.
For testing, I'd say polish and etch the straps before bending. See how the surfaces of the weld look, then when you bend it, see if that reveals anything new OR how any existing flaws are effected.
I wouldn't make any mention on pass/fail criteria unless we were talking specific codes, because there is variation between different code books in regards to that.
I do a lot of my own experimentation and weld testing and can only imagine what kind of hijinks I would get up to with someone as curious as you lol
Ive been getting into a lot of die welding at work recently, big 6,000 pound pieces of steel milled out to be a mold for it or milled out to be a die shoe. I just cant get aluminum down, i can do 300 amp tig welds on these giant pieces of steel that have to be absolutely perfect but i cant get my aluminum to look nice, any tips? maybe a tips and tricks video in the future for tig aluminum?
There is no shortage of aluminum welding demonstrated by very competent individuals.
@@Failure_Is_An_Option Yeah, no doubt, I was just wanting to see if its something greg would ever consider doing or has ever thought about doing, or if he has any tips he can provide, his explanations are usually really in depth and easy to understand.
Don’t feel bad that your aluminum tig isn’t as good as you want it to be, I met tons of guys that could weld circles around me on steel but couldn’t do much with aluminum. Aluminum tig comes down to these things: A/c balance being in a proper range, proper arc gap, proper tungsten setup, proper filler size, and proper surface prep. The aluminum must be clean or it welds poorly, so clean it the best you can (green scotch brite pad, acetone, stainless brush, etc).
The machine setup is a whole ball of worms because it’s very difficult to understand what settings actually do, and they all matter significantly. With DC tig it’s simple, it’s you and the arc. More amperage is more heat and a wider arc cone. You can hold a tight arc and not contaminate the tungsten. Well with aluminum you weld it with a/c. You can adjust the ratio of EN (heat from the tungsten to the material) and EP (heat from the work to the tungsten (that cleans the surface oxide). You can adjust the frequency of how many times per second it switches between the two. You can even adjust the amperages on both of those independently with some machines. That’s a lot to understand, but what you need to keep in your mind is you need 75% (plus or minus 5-10%) of EN and the remaining 25% or so as EP (cleaning). If you have too much cleaning too much heat goes into the tungsten and it melts. Too little cleaning and you get a lot of surface oxides. Most more modern machines can adjust this ratio. When it comes to a/c frequency lower is better for thick material (40-60hz) and higher (120hz+) is better for thin. Higher frequency chokes the arc cone down some. The higher the frequency the more time is spent at 0volts therefore the heat input drops as the frequency increases.
Tungsten choice matters hugely. You must use 3/32 or 1/8th diameter 2% lanth or e3 type tungsten’s. Thoriated and many other types (like pure) won’t hold up well. For amperage below 120a I run a point on a modern machine. Older transformer machines you typically need to run a ball so the tip doesn’t melt. For above 140-160a I tend to run a mini ball on the tungsten for modern machines. I find the arc to be more stable.
Arc gap is a weird one with aluminum. You must run a longer arc gap than on steel. Because electrons are flowing from the base material to the tungsten, if you hold a tight arc it will tend to contaminate the tungsten. So run a slightly longer arc gap, 3/32 gap would be a good starting point.
Filler rod wise always use one diameter bigger rod than you’re used to on the same material thickness of steel. 3/32 filler is great on say 1/8th material. For 3/16th and thicker 1/8th rod is better. Keep in mind aluminum weld is 2-3 times wider than a steel tig weld, thus you need both a bigger diameter wire and to push more of it to make the weld.
Amperage is a big factor. You can literally weld 1/8th aluminum at 200amps depending on the joint. 25% of the heat you input is somewhat wasted in the area around the weld and heating the tungsten, and then aluminum probably conducts heat 3+ times better than steel. Then ontop of all of that the a/c arc is wide and tries to melt a big area. All these things come together to make it tough to weld aluminum that’s 3-16th and thicker.
Now that you understand all of that let’s put it together. When welding aluminum start at 75% EP 25% EN, 60 or 120hz. Filler rod diameter should be 3/32 on 3/16th and under, and you need to push a fair amount of filler. You need to hold a slighter longer arc gap than on steel. When it comes to actual techniques I do have some tips that should help. Think of aluminum tig more as a torch than as a precise instrument. Dc tig is a fine tip pen, ac tig is wide tip magic marker. You must more or less nudge the ac arc in the area you want it to go. You must move slower than on steel, give it time for the molten pool to flow out. Thinking of it now it actually is more similar to oxy fuel welding or even better yet brazing than it is to dc tig. More amperage means wider arc, too low of amperage and the arc will more or less exist as a bolt of lightening that wanders. Increasing amperage will often cause the arc to move into a “cone” state instead of a wandering arc. This is especially true when the molten pool shows up. When the molten pool shows up you want to increase the amperage significantly because it will stabilize the arc into a proper cone.
Beyond what I have mentioned expect to be frustrated a bunch. I will be completely honest, I was able to catch onto aluminum very fast and I am not exactly sure why. Many people I know that are far more skilled than I am with other welding types aren’t as good as I am at tig aluminum. I am hoping what I mentioned will open the door to some things you’re doing wrong or things to do a bit better. Aluminum is definitely one of those things that everything must be right or it just doesn’t work well. Dc steel is far more forgiving, the steel talks to you so much more (aluminum doesn’t produce much of heat affected zone colors, welding temp colors, or even indications things are too hot), and it requires so much fewer settings. So at the end of the day don’t be discouraged, focus on what I mentioned and practice a bunch. It will come to you. Just think of it more like brazing with a wandering arc and less like a precision instrument.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg After applying this to some practice coupons at work earlier today, i ended up swapping my tungsten from thoriated to lanthinated, balling my tungsten, and keeping a much longer arc, and it now looks significantly better, i appreciate the tips and how easy you made it to understand.
I enjoyed the topic. The profile inspections and cuts are my favorite part of the channel. Do you see getting a small rotary table one day? Do you use naval jelly or muratic acid on inspection cuts?
I use naval jelly because it’s easy to get and on warm steel it works great. On stainless it tends to not be strong enough though lol. If I had a bunch of parts to make or a bigger need for a rotary table i would definitely buy one. I have wanted one for a while but haven’t found the right one (for cheap enough lol).
Cool stuff in this video. I think I'll never get into racing but this topic can be transfered to many other things such as repairs an top links of farm machinery that get smashed up very good also.
In my area it is more likely to get precision tubing in all thinkable dimensions than pipe. Chose outside diameter and wallthickness in Millimeter and you are right ok the money. Pipes for Installation an the other side is measured imperial here. Same for pipes for construction. Although they are Measured in mm sometimes they have "weird" readings with fracrions of millimeters because the measurement bases on imperial numbers.... Confusing sometimes. 😂
Got your sticker in the mail the other day, many thanks! With this on the good I gained the motivation to finish up my recent project with TIG instead of doing the tagging and visible welds with TIG and all the structural stuff with MIG like I planned initially. It was vers good practice (and a valuable lessons in weld distorsion and penetration-welded parts upsede down so now the root is visible) 😆 got the paint on it tonight and will put it into service tomorrow (cabinet for my drill press)
I have noticed you have been using the Miller Digital Infinity hood in several videos. Has it become your hood of choice in the shop, or just testing for a future followup helmet video?
I have not had good luck leaving a bolt or threaded inserts when welding components with threads. They usually deform and jam, and I can’t get them apart without a lot of difficulty. I’ve learned to be careful about not “cooking” the metal, and have better luck taking my time and stitching it in sections 180° out from each other to minimize distortion.
I have also seen where the tube will have a fish mouth cut into it to increase the amount of weld attaching it to the rod end socket.
That can work. It gives a wider area for the molten pool to flow out and that will help with fusion. Much like welding on a flat plate is easy for a weld to spread out and fuse but welding a tight bevel will often result in a lack of fusion.
More great information. Good to see more Tig work. How long do you leave the naval jelly on the weld?
Naval jelly will etch steel in seconds if it’s hot, a couple minutes if it’s cold. I generally let it cool after welding, sand/grind the weld to polish it and quickly etch it. Sometimes the welds aren’t very visible with lower strength acids like naval jelly, stainless and many tig welds in specific.
👍 Good stuff
Would there be benefit to grinding a bevel on the tube? More filler to put it but penetration at the root should be easier to achieve. And then what about flux core, I know people generally hate it, but would it work as well or better than the wire feed with gas?
On the thinner ends, would it make sense to get some right and left hand bolts to thread in while welding? The effect might be like welding thicker metal and produce cold results but would prevent melting out the threads.
So grinding a bevel can have some downsides. The main one comes from additional weld metal being needed. More weld metal will mean additional shrinkage and that can cause issues with the threads. Not only can the threads get pushed out but they can get drawn closer, which ends up being an issue for a tap. Chasing the threads will cause a lot of the thread to be removed leaving far less tooth mass. More penetration is also not stronger because you’re limited by the tube thickness. A great example would be the mig weld that was run at 375in/min. That weld is slightly over the tube wall thickness and making it bigger will not increase strength because the tube is the limiting factor. Beveling the tube may also cause the weld to melt it more than the fitting. Even though the fitting is beveled in relation to the tube, it’s actually a very thick mass and a weld will much rather melt the thinner tube. Again it can work doing a bevel, just expect to have to make some changes to get it to work reliably. Using a bolt in the threads could help, the issue is finding left hand bolts in the size needed is something hardware stores generally don’t sell. It would beat wrecking the heat treatment on the heim joint threads though lol.
As far as flux core is concerned, based on my experience that weld (as seen in the video) would produce porosity in the weld. Anytime you use Gasless flux core and weld a fairly narrow beveled section the weld becomes thick. When a Gasless flux core weld is thick (root to face of weld) there tends to be trapped gas that turns to porosity. Beveling the pipe would be the only hope to get flux core to produce clean welds on that joint. I do believe it could make strong enough welds provided they are mostly free of defects.
Love these welding videos! With mig welding every video I've watched says amp this and amp that my machine only has a dial that says volts? and I just burn holes in the metal, old school lincoln idealarc sp-200, I've about giving up on mig!
MiG is generally setup with wire feed and voltage control. Amperage is generally only used to give a reference on the size of welder needed to weld something. MiG machines typically come in 140,180,200,220 amp sizes on the hobbyist level machines. The actual amperage used is dependent on wire feed speed. Higher wire feed speed means more amperage is required to keep the wire from shorting out.
On thinner material low voltage and wire feed must be used. The voltage mostly controls the width of the weld. Thin material needs between 13-17 volts and the wire feed will be significantly reduced from 1/8th or bigger material. The key is to make a weld with settings that almost blow a hole but more fairly fast/consistent so it doesn’t. Thin material is hard to learn to weld on but once are successful it’s not that hard to do consistently.
Greg,
I hope you are doing well. I been stick welding non stop for 3 days and trying out different rods starting with 3/32 rods of 6011, 6013, 6014, 7018, and out of all these rods I have found the 6011 rods to be very violent compared to the other rods and my welds with the 6011 look like they were BBQ’’d or marked up with burnt charcoal. Under to hood the puddle looks like it’s gouging my 1/4 plate and when I stopped mid rod I noticed the 6011 rod was blacked and had an actual flame to it. Any suggestions to what may be causing this? Like I stated before, I welded with the other rods and had no issues. The 6011 rods that I am referring to were purchased at harbor freight and are the Vulcan brand. I bought a 5 lb pack of 6011 3/32 that are Hobart brand and I am a bit discouraged on opening it and getting the same result. I am running on 70-100 amps. I even lowered amperage but that only made it difficult to sustain the arch. I hope this makes sense.
I had the same terrible results with HF 6011 rods, but good luck with their 6013 and 7018 rods. Go figure…
I have tried Hobart, Forney and they were ok, but temperamental to me.
If you have a Matheson Welding Supply (they mainly supply gasses, but do carry many consumables) near you, try their Matheson brand rods, but be aware, some are products of China, and some are products of India, and I have found the latter to be the best, and interestingly, the rods from India are vacuum packed and the Chinese are in a thin plastic (open ended) bag. Examine the box label, for where they are made. If they don’t have any in stock, they are generally pretty good about ordering some - tip: call ahead and ask if they have any in stock.
With 6011, Greg once suggested they run better after they warmup and, and as he suggested, I found burning an inch off on a scrap piece of metal, it sort of conditions the flux on the rod and they start running better before. I’m not sure of the science or specific details why that is, but it works well for me, and I’ve just gotten into the habit of doing it.
Credit for that goes to Greg… Thank You Greg
I'll give my opinion on that. Greg may have other suggestions. When I was running a lot of 6011 about four months ago I found that I could run the 3/32" rods at 55-90 amps, ranging from way too cold at one end of the range, to way too hot at the other. If you are welding 3/16" or thicker plate then the range from 70-80 amps should produce a good bead in the horizontal position that is about 1/4 to 3/8 in. wide. Running up into the 80-90 amp range produces a very wide, violent puddle that's hard to control, sags some, and overheats the rod.
@@fastbusiness hello. Thanks for the tip. Greg actually posted a video about the dreaded 6011 rods and in the video he actually used a 3/32 electrode. I went ahead and purchased some other brands of 6011 and I will try to use the methods he described in the video on producing a somewhat respectable bead. In a nutshell, he stated to run the rod as low as possible and he reassured me that the 6011 is a humbling rod in that it points out very subtle details in your technique as far as arch length and angle of holding the electrode and speed of running the electrode. But I do appreciate the community’s and Greg’s suggestions and input. It’s making me a better welder for sure.
@@michaelwhiting878 hello. Thanks for sharing so much information with me. I did purchase other brands of 6011 to ensure that I wasn’t dealing with a defective pack of electrodes. I also came across one of Greg’s videos that goes into depth on welding with 6011 and I will probably go back to my histories and watch it again. It’s funny that he states in the video that I will not be a decent 6011 welder overnight. He puts it this way: I will probably have to burn at least 20 lbs of 6011 electrodes to make any kind of noticeable improvement. And I do agree with that. I look at spending 90-100 dollars on 6011 electrodes as an investment to learning how to weld with a difficult electrode and if I can do that, then I can probably have no issues welding other electrodes, no matter the size. If that makes sense. Thanks.
@@NeonBoom2586 If you have not already, I suggest watching the video he made called "How to weld with 6011" ua-cam.com/video/vK7rJAuoPJE/v-deo.html It is in his playlist "How to stick weld course."
The 6011 and 6010 run a violent, spattering puddle compared to 6013 or 7018 and won't ever make a bead as smooth as either of those two. In the beginning, it seems like all the little details are critical, such as arc length, rod angle, travel speed, work angle and amperage. Actually, 6010/11 is one of the more forgiving rods on all those parameters. After you gain a little more experience with 6011 you will find that you can make an acceptable weld with it in almost any situation, in any position, and on any condition of steel. It won't ever win any beauty contests, but it may get the job done when nothing else will.
any thoughts on drilling holes in the tube and plug/rosette welding in addition to welding around the joint? That seems to be the popular thing to do for folks building jeeps.
The issue with doing that is the threaded portion isn’t very long. Inorder to get a plug weld that would actually melt any decent amount of the insert to the tube you would need a decent size hole. The end result would be likely to cause thread issues too. I think a lot of people that plug weld the joints don’t realize how little fusion that plug will have and how little strength it would really add. If you have decent fusion to the tube to insert very little will be gained doing a plug weld.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg thanks for the reply! I might continue to do this, as it does serve as a 'tack weld' to hold it in place and you don't have to run over that tack weld :D
Question : if you're worried about the thread deforming, would it help to have a copper/brass(perhaps Alu even? ) threaded rod inside during the weld?
Anything that would work as a heat sink will reduce the chance of the threads deforming. However if you ran too much gap and/or too hot you could cause the rod to get stuck inside. It might sound crazy but weld metal can completely deform stuff you wouldn’t think would be possible lol. The only part with a threaded rod that might be difficult to locate is reverse thread. Typically you use one straight and one reverse joint to be able to adjust the length of the link by spinning it (great for adjusting steering).
Thinking about up sizing a diff. for a jeep and I don’t think my 200 amp mig. welder is enough do you think that a 250 amp Lincoln ideal arc would be enough.
If you’re talking 1/4 wall tube and the bigger joint insert in the video a 200amp mig machine is on the edge of handling it. The mass of the threaded insert is so much that it will pull heat out and cause a lack of fusion. I don’t think it would be as bad as that “stack of dimes” weld but it will be tough to not have that happen. A option you would have is to run a bit wider gap than I did and a slight bevel on the tube. It won’t be a miracle worker but it would likely give a better result (it will still likely have a lack of fusion just not as bad) If you have access to 100% co2 that would also give far better fusion on thicker material. If I were you would setup a test weld of the material sizes of the joint you need to weld, weld it, and cut it in half to see what it looks like. If it looks like the cold stack of dimes you know you need more power. If it only has a slight whisper of a lack of fusion I wouldn’t worry about it much.
For stick or wire process, what do you think about starting the weld on the tube about 1/4" from the gap and bringing the weld up and into the gap so there is no 'start' within the gap?
So you can do that but there will still be somewhat of a lack of fusion as you drop in. On flat beveled plates in structural steel they do exactly that, they have “run on” and “run off” tabs on the sides where you start and end on, preventing lack of fusion from happening on the actual base metal. The problem with tube is there is no easy way to do this. Which is why having settings on the machine to increase heat input at the start makes a big difference on helping the lack of fusion. That’s also why the fewer starts/stops the better for sure. Realistically even if someone did one of them in quarters, they would still likely never break provided they were like any of the welds besides the cold mig weld.
🙏🙏
What is your thought about getting a copper rod the correct size, thread it with either a die or on a lathe and thread it into the tube-end weld nut to reduce the effect of heat from welding? I am going to be fabricating a triangulated 4 link suspension copying mainly the early 60's Pontiac and the weld nuts are 4130 and so is the tubing. With 4130, you can reduce the weight by 30% by using thinner tubes. I am glad I purchased it before Biden screwed up America because the price now is near the unobtanium level.
Great question, here are my thoughts: you actually have an interesting “conundrum” on your hands. Thinner tube/inserts are easier to have over penetration and thread distortion on. So a heat sink would go a long way to prevent issues. However 4130 doesn’t like rapid cooling during post welding. It’s actually in your best interest to allow the weld to cool naturally.
One thing I didn’t mention is often times where the threads get cooked/warp is far enough in that the strength isn’t hugely affected. The threaded section is far longer than what’s needed for maximal strength. You would be better off welding it out and cleaning the threads up after welding. Provided you didn’t really warp the fitting I think this will work the best. I would definately do a test run on a piece to see how things go.
Some other tips: I am not sure what process you’re using (tig or mig) but it’s common to weld 4130 with er70 wire or er80. Avoid 4130 filler unless the whole assembly will be heat treated after welding. If the threaded insert is over 3/16th thick you will want to preheat it. I don’t have my metals book infront of me to verify, but somewhere between 300-350 degrees would be the temp target. I find that chromoly tends to undercut and poorly flow out, so if your mig welding it (and have adjustable inductance) set the inductance higher to aid in the weld pool flowing out. You want to avoid fast temp rises and drops. Chromoly was welded with oxy fuel forever without issue, and that’s because of how slow it is to rise and fall in temp. A fast drop in temp can cause brittle welds and heat affected zone areas.
Realistically I think you will be just fine if you do a test run and get things dialed in 👍
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks, I am going to use my TIG welder with ER70S2. My tubing is 1.5" 4130 with 0.120"wall and the 4130 weld nuts take a 3/4" rod end so the weld nut wall will be approx 1/4". Thanks for your thoughts on this, it will help.
Call me old school (stupid) but I gas weld chromoly tube.
And I use NS-102CF when MIG welding frames, cages and suspension components because of its strength, flexibility and ability to be post weld heat treated. Racing FORCES you to weld correctly. At least with the organizations I deal with, you aren't allowed to grind your welds.
Gas welding chromoly still has a huge functional place in fabrication (and in aviation). In many cases the welds of chromo are brittle in the heat affected zone and can crack/fail. Oxy fuel doesn’t have this issue due to the slow rise and fall of temperatures. It’s commonly suggested under .250 chromo doesn’t need preheat, but hitting even .120 or thinner with a blast of heat fast like with mig or tig and then letting it cool fast will produce a more brittle final product. I have argued with people for years that strength doesn’t matter much if the material fails. I rather have a gas welded chromo cage that will bend a bit more but stay together than a mig welded one that will hold more weight and then completely break.
Thanks for bringing up the grinding issue, which is a huge one. Grinding a bad weld down to make it look pretty could remove a significant amount of reinforcement. It also shows that you probably don’t have the skill to weld a cage and probably shouldn’t be doing it. A racing organization that takes tech inspection serious will force people to have competent welds like you said no doubt. It beats having people get hurt that’s for sure.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Sounds like thin Chromoly is a lot like working with glass then. If you heat a water glass up fast, then throw it into some cold water, you won't have much of a glass left anymore.. LOL
I use JB WELD INSTEAD!
You gave me an idea on that lol. I will do some destructive tests on JB weld vs something like a 1/2in long weld lol. I have no idea how strong JB weld actually is on a bend test. This should be interesting 😅😅
"You got no proof I welded that!"