Ep142: Is the black locust a friend or enemy to the homesteader/small farmer?
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- In this video, we take a look at the black locust tree. Some people love them. Some people hate them. We talk about how to identify the locust and then also discuss in detail the pros and cons of having this tree on your property.
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My Gramps told me to always keep the grove of black locust on the farm, and I’d always have the longest lasting fence posts, the best firewood, and a resident herd of whitetail deer.
There is a well supported theory that the locust evolved with mammoths and the
thorns and spiky branch pattern lasts until the tree is is taller than an elephant.
After that, it grows smoother, straighter and thorn free.
I love these tree summaries. One thing that I was surprised you didn't mention is the BTU of burning locust. Black Locust will burn hotter than maple, poplar, oak and hickory. It regenerates so quickly, that if you wanted to be self-sustaining with firewood from your property, succession planting of locust is a great idea.
Black Locusts wood is so beautiful for woodworking…… Turn so beautiful on my lathe ❤……
I hated them when i was a kid. When cutting them for firewood, their thorns would punch through our leather gloves making handling them a real pain. Literally.
Once I became a bee keeper, the black locust quickly became one of my favorite trees. They are generally one of the first trees to bloom in my area providing much needed forage for the bees. The honey produced from them is also a top quality product. It is very light in color, and has a very mild, pleasant flavor.
I have BL in WNY. A little outside its native range, but it's a great tree. Built a deck out of it. 6x stronger than treated pine/fir, and one of the most rot and bug resistant woods there is. It's very hard, so can be hard on tools, but pretty straight grained and doesn't move much as it dries.
Black locust and Osage orange are two native american hardwoods that are under represented in the lumber trade. When I can get the wood, I like to use it. Rot resistance is great, and wood density and strength is high.
These two species of Black Locust and Osage Orange plus Red Mulberry are pretty much the three most rot resistant hardwoods in North America.
@@richtomlinson7090 didn't know about Mayberry. Cool to know
You can batter the flower clusters and fry them up like pancakes, too. They grow fast, good lumber, excellent firewood, rot and bug resistant posts, nitrogen fixing, honey, fodder for livestock... talk about multi use... I've got 30 or seedling waiting to be planted on my new homestead, in a few weeks...
Black Locust is so beautiful it has a beautiful bright green coloration that glows under a black light ❤
I love black locust it's like a gift from god they got so many uses.
Triplagol: Agreed. And, if it were illegal to plant, I would plant it anyway.
When I was young locust is all we used for fence posts and some are still in 60 years later
old time engineer good deal! I have some 17 year old posts
We did too. Used to carry those da@# things up those WV hills myself. Thorny darn things.
@@RedToolHouse what's your thoughts on honey locust?
I cut and set my share of locust posts and it is definitely some of the best firewood you can cut. The BTU's are incredibly high 2 or 3 dry sticks and you will be opening the windows.
It is a good burner!
The easiest way to ID it is the last tree to leaf out in the spring. Awesome awesome fire wood
I consider it a super tree, and it seems to help other species grow.
Growing up we had mostly Black Locust with Sugar Maple and Black Maple, plus Shagbark Hickory was coming in along with Black Walnut.
The Black Locust could reach 110 feet and my father used them to build a long lasting bridge across the stream.
Best method to cut older or larger Black Locust is to gird it and leave it for a year or so. This will cause the outter bark to almost fall off itself when it dries taking all the thorns when it does in a large sheet. Locust is very rot resistant but I rarely find it in sufficient straight lengths to use as posts. In my opinion it is the best firewood out there as it is much faster growing than Osage Orange. Down side is you can ruin a stove or wood furnace quick with it if you don't watch and regulate airflow carefully. I always burn Black Locust with a cooler burning wood to cut the heat down some, my favorite wood to burn with locust is Elm usually.
Your videos are always so informative.
Great video!! Sounds like just what I need .
Very thorough. Love the black locusts.
Excellent presentation.
Great video, lots of good info. Nice job, thank you!
Thank you for the info. Looking to plant black locust on our homestead.
Super informative video, quiet well done.
You earned a subscriber on this one.
The problem with having them on a property where they are not native to the area or not endemic is the aforesaid invasive issue. The cons outweigh the pros when there are so many more desirable trees that can do the same thing and not cause the same monoculture. On the flip side, if you are within its native range, by all means, plant these where appropriate! As you go west toward the Great Plains, woody accession is a major concern as people generally think planting trees is a good thing, but that native ecosystem is suffering as what little prairie remains is either plowed under or being engulfed by trees which have much less benefit to that area than the prairie. This is one of those trees that has caused havoc in the Midwest.
Nice, Thanks for the information
What an excellent video, well done. You've got a great personality also (including humor), and there's a wealth of information here. Thank you!! Subscribed.
Thanks!
There's a variety called (shipmast) grows straight and fast, it's being used commercially great timber for fences, decking, any exterior uses
Great video, thanks man!
Hi Red Tool House, enjoy the videos. I am looking for clarification on your comment at 4:35 ish mark where you mention Andropogon virginicus (broomsedge) as a nitrogen fixer. I only find research to indicate it is inhibitory to nitrogen fixation. Thanks
Great fence post producer and good BTUs from a quick hardwood. I had a bunch on my property in NJ and a bunch of the 100 footers. Personally I like them a lot.
Cut a few big ones down the have someone slab them up for you. Some sawyers will trade you half the wood for cutting your half. Use the rest as firewood.
I found a patch of small locust up around 3500-3800 feet in NC near Mt. Mitchell that had purple flowers. That was a cool find. Probably 30 years ago or so. Have never seen any at lower elevations.
I've made a few axe, hammer, and chisel handles out of honey locust and its a really tough wood. I'd love to have a few black locusts around out here in the western CO desert!
Thank you for the video
My favorite trees by far
I have three on the homestead I bought last year. Buggy sob's, I almost cut em out, but I have learned a lot. The branches make the best wooden mauls! They are full of calcium and silica, hard. I've never seen any flowers on mine. Thank you for your insight, I will think more about cutting them down. I do hate to kill trees if I don't have too.
Underutilized, undervalued. So many uses. Sweetest flowers, rot resistant wood, easily copices, very hardy once established.
Great video. I like your approach; good info and interesting, but to the point with no drama. Thanks!
At 34 seconds you said ".... and in the Ozarks, supposedly..." Yep...I live here in the beautiful Arkansas Ozarks and we definitely have plenty of both kinds of Locust trees.
They are handy to have around!
Around here we also have the Osage Orange trees ( Bois D' Arc...Bodark, Hedge apple, etc. ) and there are lots of fence posts here made from this tree. They last as long as Red Cedar.
I don't have a homestead, but we had a black locust cut down for a driveway addition. Two things, the chutes kept coming back all over my yard for a couple years and the wood burned really hot. I loved it in the winter time for fires in the fireplace. The only reason I didn't let the "volunteers" grow back is because of the thorns. You're definitely correct in the wood grain being desirable.
Makes really nice end grain cutting boards
I love black locust! Red thorn is awesome firewood, too, but I will not let them grow because of the weed like spreading and tractor tire spiking thorns.
I wish I had more here.
Thank you. I have 3 acres. And it is full of black locust saplings. I have contemplated what to do about them. You gave me the answer! For we are going to install a wood burner. And, we need fence posts. And, we will be getting bee hives%! So thankful for this information!
Over fifty feet tall and I could hear the bees humming in them. Make sure your chain saw blade is sharp. The wood is very hard.
Interesting species. Saw some in a yard in VA that were plain ugly. Here in Upper Midwest (where black locust are already widespread), there are small stands that are flat gorgeous, towering, with a high bluish/green canopy and the pretty, dark bark. I have planted a few on my lot where soil is thinnest, and trees are vigorous and hardy. Like the thorns too, not as vicious as those of osage orange. I'm a fan.
thanks, I learned the value of black locust. Very informative, really enjoy videos I learn from, keep it up.
It burns like anthracite coal, the posts made from it lasts forever and the flowers are both beautiful and the honey made from it is simply divine.
Really like your tree video's, but I can't find a playlist of them with my mobile device. It's funny, you have a video on all trees I plan to grow (accept for red oak) on a piece of land were I harvested all spruce trees. Thanks again for sharing and all the best from Germany, Maximilian.
I just added it to the playlist page!
Wildlife enjoy the seed pods in season. In North Mississippi not that common. The thorns were always impressive.
I just put 4 black locust saplings in today. I plan to let them go for a few years and then pollard all of them to get a future investment in firewood, posts or whatever else.
the cons all sounded like pros to me. I cut it, grow it, use posts, poles, lumber and love it. Bees coming soon.
Yeah, use it for for fence post
I planted a (I believe) Purple Robe Locust 18 years ago when I bought my home. It has survived when most of the other trees/ plants did not. I live in Southern Colorado, hot in summer, bad clay soil the native plants are Junipers and Cacti. I love it! It blooms every year. It has made quite a few “babies “ o but none of them bloom. Can you answer me this is?
I'm thinking of planting those trees at the high desert here in California its worth a try 🤔
Our farm is FULL of black locusts!! They are everywhere! They grow very fast! My husband is very sensitive to the flowers they kick his allergies into high gear. But they are pretty AND some people get them and fry and eat them.
@Grace is he allergic just to the blacklocust pollen, or could he be eating the flowers without effect? Thx
I have 4 huge ones in my yard here in NJ.
You're right about th getting choked out! Does anykne know how to get rid of the forest ofl honeysuckle vines without poisoning the tree?
I think it might have been Steve Gabriel @Cornell who suggested close planting, ie. a grove of several 3 ft rows and 3 ft o.c. The competition in the shade caused the trunks to grow straight and tall for use in hops fields for the 35ft leaning end posts which support the top cables at 20 ft. I think it's valued at over $100 each and it's good for ground contact in certified organic greenhouse/hoop houses too. There's some competitive die-off but those thinnings would be good for small fire wood for stoves, bean poles, etc. I'm not quite sure what the needed top diameter would be yet for hops field supports. It is nice to see your 10 year old specimen though at 1:45. It's encouraging me to look for & find seed. Hey, could you send some black locust seed possibly? It's legal in NJ. & PA here. I'll trade you some Bois D'Arc fruits, if you'd like.
I planted 5 black locust trees 4 years ago. They are great yea those extra trees that come up are fantastic. I planted them for firewood. even some of those runner trees are doing superb. The Ones you don't want is not a problem. I just go around the trees with my tractor and cut out what I don't want. I left a couple every year long away from the originals. I'm basically creating a locust grove. The more firewood the better things will be later. Its called manage your locust forest. I have 4 acres. I sell some of the wood. There is mostly oaks there. Ok see ya all.
It's June 1 in VA and my yard is full of thousands of black locust seedlings. And the old roots are sending up suckers that grow a foot tall overnight. I've dug it, sprayed with glyphosate, and hit the old stumps with Tordon RTU. Probably will never get rid of this nightmare plant.
So sorry about cutting these all these years, because I have never heard of anything positive except blocking the soil erosion. But when I got a few serious thorn attacks I have been attacking this tree though I had to suffer further thorn attacks.
Sorry that I never knew its edible value and nitrogen contribution.
Very interested in this wood. I appreciate the video. Do you know of a source where I can purchase a long piece of Black Locust to fashion a stout walking stick from?
I like any locus wood for firewood
Yep got them suckers on my property too. I hate those thorns as bout as much as blackberry thorns. Didn't know the wood was that pretty inside and used in woodworking. We have another type called honey locust. Looks similar but no thorns. Don't know that much about them. Gonna try my hand using some in a woodworking project.
RANDALLOLOGY Honey Locust has the long thorns, Black Locust loses it's thorns as it matures.
Umm honey locus has massive Groupings of thorns that get up to 5-7" long
Friend and you can water by it and the wood it hard as all get out
Great tutorial and love the black locust tree. Just one question how does the honey locust compare to the black locust, is there a lot of similarities. Thanks again very informative
Seems like only the leaf size and shape compare, but the rot resistance and firewood qualities aren't equal, and I don't think that Honey Locust hosts the nitrogen fixing bacteria that the Black Locust does.
In Massachusetts Black Locusts do grow like weeds. However, they don't seem to grow to full size. They get topped over by other trees. They get very twisted and die off.
One of the best trees, I cultivate them.
Haha enjoy your trash trees
@@jacobs4545 best tree for building: fencing, barns, garden beds. Rot-proof. Tree has 36-48 inches of growth per year.
11k-18k per acre profit when harvesting depending on lumber and firewood prices in your area.
Only a smoothbrain thinks they’re trash.
20-25 acres of black locust with a solar kiln? harvest 4-5 acres each year while the others grow, speed dry your wood in a solar kiln: half milled lumber and half firewood cords.. boom you have an easy supplemental five figure side income for your farm or homestead.
The honey bees love them as well.
My 5 acres in Missouri has mostly hedge and 3 locust. I'm removing them. I'm tired of flats. So I'm replanting pin oaks, red oaks, hard maples and fruit trees.
You have honey locust. Black locust don't have long thorns.
In Hungary it's a super tree. Probably the best all round tree.
They are also the most rot resistant species of tree native to north America.
Also some of the best firewood. The wood will burn green and it burns hotter than hell. So hot that you have to watch your stovepipe when you burn it exclusively.
Also their foliage has as high of protein as alfalfa. It's problematic if fed to heavy but as a supliment in invaluable.
I am propagating black locust as a crop in western Washington. My livestock love eating it, the bees love it and I have a rapidly producing post and firewood crop.
They also grow pretty well in waterlogged or seasonally flooded areas. I'm a big fan.
I'm interested in building small boats. Black Locust, while heavy and a HARD wood, IS exceedingly rot resistant and would be ideal for the frames and gunwales of small boats. I just wish Spira International were still selling plans. Their railbird poling boat would be ideal for shallow water fishing and duck hunting.....
Wonderful wagon bed board's
Great vid. No fluff, no slow hemming and hawing, just good info. So cutting to the ground the black locusts that grow through my stone driveway is called coppice and will make it grow more? Time to put the gloves on. I actually like the tree but do try to control it.
I would dig it out or burn it out if you really wanted to get rid of it.
Hey guy. I think if you by a weed burner. You could light those runners on fire. I bet it would take care of that problem. The weed burner screws into a propane bottle. I think I paid about 40 bucks. It would be great for suckers coming up in the stones. You start it with a striker with flint in it. Ok see ya. Ka pow.
Man, I have so much of this growing on my land that it is not funny. I own a swing blade sawmills and am looking forward to producing some lumber. I intend to timber frame a structure out of this wood.
Do those thorns puncture tires?
As a bee keeper in the south on my farm black locust and honey locust are very well invited and protected.and not to dispute the best place for them to grow or plant but on my land most are growing in the middle of other hardwoods.well canopy trees such as white red oak hickory and poplar and yes new one’s did pop up on some cleared land.
It figures Massatushits would call them evasive, they have so much prairie to protect! lol Very informative video well explained, thank you!
Invasive. Also the fact that they don’t have prairie land doesn’t mean they aren’t destructive to the local environment.
I admit, I think it's the most beautiful tree on my property. Alas, it is slowly falling down. Lightning strikes and the neighbor cut into the root system. So slowly it falls, and as I can reach the limbs, I cut them off but it keeps blooming and I keep cutting. But I feel such sadness in knowing I will have to cut them down soon.
Agree 100%. Another pro - another income source. Some people cut them down and make posts, then sell them.
YES! They could be a very nice side income.
Good for woodworking?
I like it for firewood for my outside boiler, burners super hot and last way longer than even good oak. Not a fan of having them on my property due to the thorns and the speed at which they spread. They only tree worse here in eastern MO is the red bud.
We have the red bud as well but they don't really take over everything. They are a forest border tree and die out pretty quickly.
Red Tool House - Homestead my yard get covered in them since it mostly grass.
@@RedToolHouse I planted ONE redbud in my yard in WV and it's such a lovely tree. Maybe the trick is to have only one!
Is Black Locust wood/bark/leaves toxic, particularly to horses? Wiki and several extension sites say that it is. I have no personal experience with it.
I plant trees for future generations on my five acres in middle Indiana. I have kind of a Noah’s Ark of lost trees, that will hopefully begin to repopulate the barren forests around me. The surrounding land has been picked over of anything of value, to the point of local species extinction. It’s truly sad that a finite amount of cash is more important than the environment that gives us life. I love all trees, and couldn’t wait to introduce black locust to my future jungle of diversity. I read about their differences, and looked for their unique qualities whenever I saw one. I celebrated them. I drove for years by a couple of unusually large ones in a neighbor’s front lawn, admiring them every time. I was inwardly outraged when the new owners cut them down for pocket cash. They didn’t care that the hastily amputated stumps left over were a reminder of the property’s lost beauty. They probably weren’t aware of the loss in property value of removing mature trees from the landscaping. You couldn’t view the house without seeing those trees. The house now is small and nothing special. Another neighbor with black locust on the edge of her property used to sell her pasture hay until no one wanted it anymore. It was because the black locust had spread into it through suckering, and the sprouts are covered with thorns. Even though the tree sprouts weren’t visible without close inspection, it’s not a good idea to feed livestock thorns. I noticed along interstates that black locust always seems to grow in stands, usually with no other kind of tree inside the groups. I realized that the hardwoods I have established on my land may not live long enough to produce seed if the roots of black locust take over all the soil. I came to the conclusion that even though black locust has very fine qualities, they were counterproductive to my vision of restoration. I still keep an eye out for that large invincible black locust that has endured the scourge of man. I haven’t seen one yet.
Good fair video, but I have a legit question. The leaves are reported to be toxic to livestock. What is your experience with this as a homesteader?
I call them yellow locust due to the color of the wood. They make excellent firewood and fence post.
I love the black locust for all the reasons you highlight. It's great wood for woodturning too, makes lovely live edge bowls. I do have one concern though, we have horses and I've read that the leaves are toxic to horses. Online info seems to indicate that it's ok for goats to eat but can be very toxic to horses. Do you know anything about the locust's toxicity?
I have not read much about locust being toxic to horses. I had always heard that wild cherry tree leaves were an issue to horses. Another viewer comment on the the trees being highly toxic but I think it isn't a broad category of animals. You may want to consult your local extension service. Are you in an area where these are considered native trees?
We're in Nevada City, CA. Pretty sure they're not native here but have been here for quite some time. I've seen a few really huge ones around, 100'+ tall!
Yes, those are not native to CA although they have probably been there for a long time! I would check with your local extension service to see if there is any documentation to substantiate that claim. That could be a costly thing to overlook! Good luck.
My honeybees like this tree when it’s blooming
what are the most profitable fast growing trees to grow if you wanted to start a wood business?
That is a broad discussion. Really depends on what kind of wood business.
For those who can’t have black locusts, look into Osage orange. It’s a very similar species but it may be banned as well.
Osage Orange is a good tree. Not sure how they are classified as far as invasiveness goes. Very pretty wood grain.
Red Tool House - Homestead the heartwood is hard as all get out. My dad used to have me cut Osage orange trees down with an axe. I used to hate that. But it taught me to never give up on something.
Ouch!
All hail the Black Locust.
Judging by your profile name, I would say you are a bit biased :)
Another con is it drops leaves year round. Probably doesn’t matter on a homestead, but if you like a clear property thru the spring and summer, black locusts are problematic
we don't have them here, but the poplar tree is a hard wood and is good for fire wood, but burn time is short and leave lots of ash, you cut them down and the next year hundreds are 3 feet tall already, they are use in the pulp and paper, ply wood core, not so good for lumber, once dry good luck putting a nail in it, I hate them near the yard, they make a huge mess with the huge fluff seed clots that fall , big spruce, pine, black ash forests, when cut are taken over by poplar, but the MNR air sprays all the tree planted cut sites to kill off the poplar and other leaf like trees and brush and they chock out the slow grown others
My black locust tree seedlings are destroyed by squirrels why are they always bothering them...? and since they are still dormant how do the squirrels know what it is?
I have not heard of that issue before.
Honey locusts are like invincible. I keep killing one in my mom's fence row and it keeps coming back. I think I have accidentally made a bonsai tree. They have pricks when they're babies and they drop stinky pods when they're grown.
Honey Locust is a different tree than Black Locust. They look similar but Honey Locust have more impressive thorns usually but can be thornless too. Honey locust pods are much larger than Black Locust pods and ruminant animals love to eat Honey Locust pods. Honey locust blooms are also small and green the wood is also much less dense than Black Locust.
Keep
100 acres of land how did u get that? Here in Europe land is crazy expensive a 100 acres is insane.
Here a hundred acres is a hobby farm. I you have less than 640 you are going out of business but a 1,000 should support you well.
They will burn a blue flame for fire wood.
It’s said to last one day less than a stone.
Let a cluster of the thorns get on the ground, and run over it with a bias ply tire or step on it, in your jellys or rebocks! You'll be sorry you did.. And if given the choice of fight a bear or climb one, like the ones I have around here, well ring around the locust tree would be the game! Try to get the bear stuck!
you say 3 is the magic number for starting with pigs in another video? Why 3 over 2? Possible loss?
Mavrck2711 I think in that video he suggested keep one to eat. Sale the other two.
And raising three isn't any harder than two.
Mavrck2711 start with 3. Pick the best one to breed, process the smallest for your family to eat and sell the middle to cover the cost of the first year raising them (and to start your customer base)
Makes sense. Was gonna get 2 but what could a third hurt.