Nice explanations of the many back up plans. As soon as you meet resistance you should immediately transition into something else before it becomes a fight.
My Sensei was old school and back in the early 90s before the Hombu instructors from Japan came to visit and upgraded the official Hombu Aikido curriculum, Sensei taught us an atemi to force the Uke into the mat if he resisted the Ikkyu. The technique involved driving your knee into his bent over face and at the same time slamming your thigh or hip(depending on the Uke's height) into his rib which gave you the momentum and leverage to complete and finish the Ude Osae technique.
In Saito Sensei's (O'Sensei's) System, the pins shown were the basic/ long forms into getting into the 4 pinning forms but of course they could entail your interputation too. Actually Saito Sensei's system for switching from Ikkyo hand position to Sankyo or Yonkyo hand position, the shoulder was used as a temporary block, not the elbow, from keeping Uke from rising. The shoulder works when you get into a Hitoemi position. But I have used the forearm as a temporary block too if Uke comes up from a Ikkyo position.
This is how it was taught to me. Your A -game is Ikkyo or a throw (well Ikkyo van ve a throw as well, depends on circumstances), if those fail, then you have Nikyo, Sankyo and all the rest to back up (that Rokyo was cool, I never learned that), but there is very seldom any point to go looking for a nikyo or whatever, that’s not going to end well for you. And just a tiny touch of old style: back in the day those locks were propably really just preparations for strikes, to get the opponent into a really awkward position from where you can hit them hard safely (either by fist or with a weapon). It’s pretty obvious anyway, but where in the video you do irimi for escape you could just as well deliver a straight right and knock the guy out. It’s not very pacifist and harmonious but hey, it’s an option. Softer version would be to go for the body control from the back and do a throw/takedown from there.
My instinctive response would have been to take out your uke’s left leg with your right since it is positioned just nicely in front of it. I don’t know if that is accepted aikido technique though.
I think all of this stuff is very old- the way we see Aikido as a whole is very outdated, the visual affect is a reminder of this, it should look like it was shot in the 50s-60s which is about when this stuff was state of the art. As I move into stuff that I think is "modern" the look will change.
I do like this approach that you have here and I think kanren waza is a huge aspect of the aiki of making aikido work. But I wish you elaborated more on how you set up on getting into that position and which atemi you can apply from there. And also explore more options and dangers of what Josh (uke) can do from there, isn't he able to hook your front leg with his back leg and try to rupture your balance with aiki otoshi?
We’ve been exploring this recently and moving from ikkajo into hijishime (rokyuo). But in terms of this video, I also instruct my students to transition into Ude Gurami nage as Uke stands up. Works well. 😉
Thank you for quality instruction. I wish more aikido instructors where like you and focused more on applicable realism when approaching the art. I mean no disrespect to you or the art you practice but would it be better if Aikido returned to its Daito Ryu roots? It seems you, Wolfman Dan, Steven Seagal have a more practical/applicable approach to applying Aikido in the real world and I was lead to believe maybe falsely that what Seagal practices is more like Daito Ryu ? I have been interested in Aikido for over a decade now but finding a quality sensei in a harder Aikido style does not seem likely near me. The only other think remotely close is Hapkido but I do not know much about it or how applicable it is? Either way thank you for the breakdown and information.
Thanks for your comments! I think Daito Ryu is a very different martial art from Aikido. I don't believe making Aikido more like Jujutsu is the answer- I think making Aikido more like Aikido is the way to go. That is hard to do, because first you'll have to understand what Aikido is and why it is not Jujutsu. That is what my approach is, it is a way to understand Aikido as...Aikido. I think this is a confusing subject for everyone- it took me about two decades of constant work to see this subject clearly. That is what you are seeing when you watch my "Approach". Thanks for your comments and interest in my work! Best of luck to you!
hello hein,i have a question for you. İf you combine aikido techniques (wrist locks and all useful things) with judo ground and stand work can it became superior martial art for mma?
I think if you are interested in MMA there is no reason to study Aikido. You will learn nothing useful for MMA that you couldn't learn in other systems much better.
@@ChuShinTani mr hein in mma they don't teach a lot about wrist locks. But i want to see wrist locks and also some grapling stuffs together. Actually i don't like striking. So i want to see aikido wrist locks with grappling things and moderate them. Can i succes in mma with these way? i am also doing judo and in mma fights it is very useful (also i don't know a lot about striking only grapling) so my question is if these two combined can it be a good style?
Wristlocks are not very useful in unarmed fights. I did MMA and applied them- never ( I was already a black belt in Aikido at that time). They can be used in ground work, I do them for fun on my students quite often- but they are lower percentage than the material you would find in BJJ or Judo or Wrestling.
Yes it does! However, once you've got them to touch three points, there would be no need to do Ura Waza. There are actually two video's before this that are on my patreon explaining the progression- I only wanted to put this one up.
Sensei, do yiou do seminars? Or, How could I train with you? Also, if I'm an old man with back issues who doesn't take ukemi anymore, would training with you do me any good? Thanks. Been following you for years now.
That's actually a pretty tall order. Reason being that different styles often use slightly different terminology. Here is a pretty good place to start: www.earth.northwestern.edu/public/craig/aikido/glossary.html. Good luck!
It's not that the Uke can resist out of the Ude Osae- it's that the Ude Osae can't be used to make the takedown- so by transitioning to the Yonkyo, you create a moment of shock, which hopefully sends Uke back forward and achieves the takedown. If that fails- well you had a failing position anyways so no new loss.
Could you not just break his arm? I teach traditional Japanese ju jitsu and I stopped doing 'holds' in real life situations, because unless there is help readily available, they will, especially if they are drunk or drugged and almost every aggressive person I've dealt with has been, get out of it. I am fortunate in being a large male, but having had a protracted brawl (thirty seconds) with a drunken yob, I realised that small people, especially women, wouldn't stand a chance. So, I now teach block/avoid, appropriate technique full bore every time, break/dislocate and run away.
I'm not the person you were asking, but I can give an answer. One of the best traits of Aikido (imo) is that you can measure your violence. - If you strike someone, you have to strike hard or the strike does literally nothing. If you strike hard, you can hospitalize someone by accident... or even kill them, such as with a knee to the face of a target that isn't fully standing. And you are almost guaranteed to injure yourself, trading strikes with someone. - If you judo throw someone and "go easy", you might not even get the throw and it won't have any real effect on your attacker. Go full speed and you might break your attacker's neck or give them a life threatening concussion. There's no real in-between with this sort of technique. But Aikido's controlled techniques allow for a firm but nonviolent reply... or a scary level of NONLETHAL violence (aka: break their arm if you need to). You can easily choose how violent to get, and the techniques work either way. If you are in a situation where you need to break an arm, Aikido does teach you how.
Nice explanations of the many back up plans. As soon as you meet resistance you should immediately transition into something else before it becomes a fight.
I think this is exactly the right way to think about Aikido!
That's great, but not always possible.
My Sensei was old school and back in the early 90s before the Hombu instructors from Japan came to visit and upgraded the official Hombu Aikido curriculum, Sensei taught us an atemi to force the Uke into the mat if he resisted the Ikkyu. The technique involved driving your knee into his bent over face and at the same time slamming your thigh or hip(depending on the Uke's height) into his rib which gave you the momentum and leverage to complete and finish the Ude Osae technique.
That's called Jujutsu😎
Nice. I've been doing Yoshinkan Aikido for 20 years and I love your channel and your objective and logical approach to Aikido.
Thanks for your comment! Glad you're enjoying the videos!
Nice! I really like the transition to Sankyo. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching.
Great Transitions! Top Notch info. Awesome 👍
Appreciate it!
In Saito Sensei's (O'Sensei's) System, the pins shown were the basic/ long forms into getting into the 4 pinning forms but of course they could entail your interputation too. Actually Saito Sensei's system for switching from Ikkyo hand position to Sankyo or Yonkyo hand position, the shoulder was used as a temporary block, not the elbow, from keeping Uke from rising. The shoulder works when you get into a Hitoemi position. But I have used the forearm as a temporary block too if Uke comes up from a Ikkyo position.
As I understood it the shoulder is used when your forearm is not long enough to reach to the sankyo. But I'm not the greatest student of Saito.
Lots of good info. Great lesson.
Cool! This is why practice is important
Also Steven Seagal showed this scenario in Exit Wounds.😅
This is how it was taught to me. Your A -game is Ikkyo or a throw (well Ikkyo van ve a throw as well, depends on circumstances), if those fail, then you have Nikyo, Sankyo and all the rest to back up (that Rokyo was cool, I never learned that), but there is very seldom any point to go looking for a nikyo or whatever, that’s not going to end well for you.
And just a tiny touch of old style: back in the day those locks were propably really just preparations for strikes, to get the opponent into a really awkward position from where you can hit them hard safely (either by fist or with a weapon). It’s pretty obvious anyway, but where in the video you do irimi for escape you could just as well deliver a straight right and knock the guy out. It’s not very pacifist and harmonious but hey, it’s an option. Softer version would be to go for the body control from the back and do a throw/takedown from there.
My instinctive response would have been to take out your uke’s left leg with your right since it is positioned just nicely in front of it. I don’t know if that is accepted aikido technique though.
The visual affect has been bothering me, but the music change was welcome
I think all of this stuff is very old- the way we see Aikido as a whole is very outdated, the visual affect is a reminder of this, it should look like it was shot in the 50s-60s which is about when this stuff was state of the art. As I move into stuff that I think is "modern" the look will change.
I do like this approach that you have here and I think kanren waza is a huge aspect of the aiki of making aikido work. But I wish you elaborated more on how you set up on getting into that position and which atemi you can apply from there. And also explore more options and dangers of what Josh (uke) can do from there, isn't he able to hook your front leg with his back leg and try to rupture your balance with aiki otoshi?
You should join Patreon page: patreon.com/christopherhein
Im sorry but the title begs the response "stomp the groin" lol anyway thanks for the video..
We’ve been exploring this recently and moving from ikkajo into hijishime (rokyuo). But in terms of this video, I also instruct my students to transition into Ude Gurami nage as Uke stands up. Works well. 😉
Thank you for quality instruction. I wish more aikido instructors where like you and focused more on applicable realism when approaching the art.
I mean no disrespect to you or the art you practice but would it be better if Aikido returned to its Daito Ryu roots? It seems you, Wolfman Dan, Steven Seagal have a more practical/applicable approach to applying Aikido in the real world and I was lead to believe maybe falsely that what Seagal practices is more like Daito Ryu ?
I have been interested in Aikido for over a decade now but finding a quality sensei in a harder Aikido style does not seem likely near me. The only other think remotely close is Hapkido but I do not know much about it or how applicable it is?
Either way thank you for the breakdown and information.
Thanks for your comments! I think Daito Ryu is a very different martial art from Aikido. I don't believe making Aikido more like Jujutsu is the answer- I think making Aikido more like Aikido is the way to go. That is hard to do, because first you'll have to understand what Aikido is and why it is not Jujutsu. That is what my approach is, it is a way to understand Aikido as...Aikido.
I think this is a confusing subject for everyone- it took me about two decades of constant work to see this subject clearly. That is what you are seeing when you watch my "Approach". Thanks for your comments and interest in my work!
Best of luck to you!
hello hein,i have a question for you. İf you combine aikido techniques (wrist locks and all useful things) with judo ground and stand work can it became superior martial art for mma?
I think if you are interested in MMA there is no reason to study Aikido. You will learn nothing useful for MMA that you couldn't learn in other systems much better.
@@ChuShinTani mr hein in mma they don't teach a lot about wrist locks. But i want to see wrist locks and also some grapling stuffs together. Actually i don't like striking. So i want to see aikido wrist locks with grappling things and moderate them. Can i succes in mma with these way? i am also doing judo and in mma fights it is very useful (also i don't know a lot about striking only grapling) so my question is if these two combined can it be a good style?
Wristlocks are not very useful in unarmed fights. I did MMA and applied them- never ( I was already a black belt in Aikido at that time). They can be used in ground work, I do them for fun on my students quite often- but they are lower percentage than the material you would find in BJJ or Judo or Wrestling.
@@ChuShinTani thanks for answers mr Hein. 👍🏻
When you put your right foot forward, doesn't that kind of close the door on ikkyo ura?
Yes it does! However, once you've got them to touch three points, there would be no need to do Ura Waza. There are actually two video's before this that are on my patreon explaining the progression- I only wanted to put this one up.
may I ask why not use Atemi against the resistance?
Sensei, do yiou do seminars? Or, How could I train with you? Also, if I'm an old man with back issues who doesn't take ukemi anymore, would training with you do me any good? Thanks. Been following you for years now.
I do seminars and have a regular school in Fresno California. You can do Aikido at any age! Glad you enjoy my work! Thanks for the comment!
where is the best place to get all the aikido terms defined.
That's actually a pretty tall order. Reason being that different styles often use slightly different terminology. Here is a pretty good place to start: www.earth.northwestern.edu/public/craig/aikido/glossary.html. Good luck!
@@ChuShinTani Great link. They classified and categorized it better than most. Thanks
If someone is strong enough to power out of an ikkyo, does it actually make sense to try a yonkyo which in my experience is harder to apply pressure?
It's not that the Uke can resist out of the Ude Osae- it's that the Ude Osae can't be used to make the takedown- so by transitioning to the Yonkyo, you create a moment of shock, which hopefully sends Uke back forward and achieves the takedown. If that fails- well you had a failing position anyways so no new loss.
love your stuff but the video quality really offputting. It doesnt look like old film to me, just modern glitches
All videos available glitch free on Patreon - www.patreon.com/christopherhein
Could you not just break his arm? I teach traditional Japanese ju jitsu and I stopped doing 'holds' in real life situations, because unless there is help readily available, they will, especially if they are drunk or drugged and almost every aggressive person I've dealt with has been, get out of it. I am fortunate in being a large male, but having had a protracted brawl (thirty seconds) with a drunken yob, I realised that small people, especially women, wouldn't stand a chance. So, I now teach block/avoid, appropriate technique full bore every time, break/dislocate and run away.
Oh! I love your stuff though, it has a lot more finesse and great for teaching techniques in a dojo. Thanks for posting.
I'm not the person you were asking, but I can give an answer.
One of the best traits of Aikido (imo) is that you can measure your violence.
- If you strike someone, you have to strike hard or the strike does literally nothing. If you strike hard, you can hospitalize someone by accident... or even kill them, such as with a knee to the face of a target that isn't fully standing. And you are almost guaranteed to injure yourself, trading strikes with someone.
- If you judo throw someone and "go easy", you might not even get the throw and it won't have any real effect on your attacker. Go full speed and you might break your attacker's neck or give them a life threatening concussion. There's no real in-between with this sort of technique.
But Aikido's controlled techniques allow for a firm but nonviolent reply... or a scary level of NONLETHAL violence (aka: break their arm if you need to). You can easily choose how violent to get, and the techniques work either way. If you are in a situation where you need to break an arm, Aikido does teach you how.
If you send a pulse of wave from your tanden, you should be able to take your opponent down.
I keep my pulse waves in my ray guy- It's safer that way.