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It's not our job to point out others. We should just testify, and get them to open their bible. All this seems like extra. BUT I am willing to have my mind changed.
@@usgamechamp1091 In my opinion, I wouldn’t say he’s exactly pointing anything out, but rather giving the full context and it helps to know all this the full context that is so that way when you are witnessing to these other religions, you know everything that they believe in so that way you can know what to say, and know how they differ its apologetics 101
@@Izzykittygamer Well said. I have never seen this type of action change anyone's heart. You have a better chance at testifying how Jesus has touched your life AND ask them to open their bible. Works way better AND it my opinion is the biblical way to handle it.
Interesting that to start your calling out for lies, and you start with a string of lies. Shameful. You have a very long history of saying things and eating crow yourself.
@@brendaleehayter8464it’s not of terrible use, I’m afraid. The beliefs that changed are merely swept under the rug as the mistakes of the generation that came before.
Thank you so much! I was a Mormon for 36 years. Today I gave up my membership. I am so grateful for your help! Thanks again. Now I feel free and blessed , I can worship the God of the Bible and His Son Jesus Christ!
I would encourage you to not be so hasty but to speak to others about their conversion to the church and why they believe. There's lots of testimonies on UA-cam as well. It is all true, friend. I give you my witness. I love the gospel and all the doctrine, despite the mistakes of past members or leaders. As a woman I even have a testimony of plural marriage and that it will be equal for all in the Celestial Kingdom.
@@ramsrnjaJesus made it very clear that in the resurrection there is no marriage but we will be like the angels. This is directly contradicted by Joseph Smith when he says you will be still married in the resurrection. Please disregard Joseph Smith's lies (Mormonism) and embrace the true gospel stated in the Bible. I don't want anyone to end up in the lake of fire for following a false religion and I'm very concerned that this will happen to Mormons.
@@ramsrnja Joseph Smith and every LDS prophet since him have preached a gospel of “do,” negating the gospel of “done” that Jesus preached and was. The LDS church is all about what it and its members must still do and be if they want to live with God (and be a god) one day. The true church is all about proclaiming what Christ has DONE to make us right with God now for all eternity. It’s a certainty. Jesus Christ canceled the record of debt that was held against us when He shed his blood, on the cross, died and rose again. All you need to do is accept Christ by faith. It isn't because of who you are and what you must do for God. It is because of who God is and what He did for you in sending Jesus to be the sacrificial offering for your sins. To be your substitute on the cross and to satisfy the demands of God's law that stands against you. Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile you to God. Christ has done the one act of righteousness that could bring justification and life to all men. All Christ is asking with open arms is for you to lay down your religiosity and works at the foot of the cross and allow Christ to take it. Salvation is quite simple. Luke 18 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
I grew up Mormon (we proudly called ourselves that) during the presidency of Spencer W. Kimball (70s and early 80s). I can attest that I was taught what is now disavowed about exaltation. Later, God helped me see that this teaching contradicts his sure word in the Bible. The Bible is clear that there is, was, and will ever only be one true and living God. Thanks, Jeff, and God bless!
It's truly nice to see other former Mormons who found the truth in the word of God (The Bible) and find the one true Christ. You may not realize this, but the vast majority of those who leave Mormonism over the past many years are those who didn't like the LDS church attitude towards homosexuality, or other things that offended them, and they fall away and become atheists. I was pulled into Mormonism in the very early 1980's and remained till the 2000's. I to remember all these original doctrines taught in both seminary and general knowledge in classes. My prayers are for all those in Mormonism, that they will find the truth, but so many would rather stick their heads in the sand instead of delving into the truth of Mormonism, it's history and origins. It reminds me of what a seared mind is like, when someone believes so much in another doctrine outside of the Scriptural teachings, they have a much harder time breaking free, but it is a choice, for they choose to ignore the warnings and choose to ignore the evidence, facts, truths.
Maybe read up on the doctrine of Theosis, taught for two thousand years by the 2nd largest branch of Christianity. "Partaking of the divine nature" it says in Peter. Ridiculing true doctrine by Evangelicals doesn't make it any less historical or true.
@@lemjwp1756 I did not ridicule any view. I simply affirmed that I was raised as a Mormon and that I no longer believe it is true on the basis of my understanding of the Bible. I have read the whole Bible many times, so of course I'm familiar with 2 Pet. 1:4. I'm sure we interpret it differently. I've also read many whole works of the Greek fathers: Athanasius, the Cappadocians (Basil and the two Gregories), Chrysostom, and Maximus the Confessor, to name a few. Eastern patristic theology is completely different from Mormonism on this and most other issues.
Thanks for a civil reply. I was an Evangelical for many years and so you can bet I've studied these matters intensely. I was speaking in general about how Evangelicals ridicule exhaltation, as in the godmakers, cartoon style. Theosis is a fascinating study,,and I would suggest taking a look at the research by modern non-LDS theologians on the topic, as well as early church fathers who spoke in explicit terms about Theosis meaning becoming as God is. God is not alone, as an ethereal,, invisible force, but rather is a real and tangible being who is building his family, after his own kind, as he created all other life, to reproduce after its "kind". We were created in the image and likeness of God. 1 John 3:2 says when we see Christ, we shall see him as he is and will be like him. Strong words.
@@lemjwp1756 We will have disagreements regarding the interpretation of Scripture, which is the Bible alone. One key issue that I had to do, was to take a deep dive in the Biblical theology, which included reviewing what could be proven in a more secular approach. Things such as geographical locations, where did things take place, do we have any evidence of these events, or people groups, or their way of life? There are many tests that can be applied universally to help us discern and understand the truth, for real truth is universal, it cannot be altered or changed and is the same for every person. When I look at the countless proofs through archeological means at all these Biblical locations, we find strong compelling evidence of many of the events that took place, along with the people groups that once lived in them, their way of life, their language, and so on. When I take the same tests and use it for the history of the Book of Mormon and the people it talks about in it, I cannot find any reasonable proof of any kind that shows these Nephites and Lamanites ever existed, for there are no cities, items, or other mediums of their language to found anywhere in the Americas, nor is there any real geography listed in the Book of Mormon of where the people lived that can be verified. We even see DNA evidence that supports the Bible in so many ways, but yet when the DNA results came forward regarding the American Indians and other indigenous people in the Americas, we find that they do not come from Israel or have any ancestral origin from those people, thus causing the LDS church to change their wording on this matter. The truth and reality is, The Book of Mormon is a fictional writing taken from several sources, and Joseph Smith was himself deceived by an angel of light which I believe was Lucifer himself, for we know he has the power to become an angel of light as stated in the Scriptures, and thus Joseph believed in all these things, and preached a false doctrine. There is no way to reconcile the passages in Isaiah with Mormonism, when God clearly tells us he is the first and the last, there is no other God besides him, he knows not one. This is completely counter to what Joseph Smith said in his King Follett Discourse when Smith declared that God was once a man like us, and we have to learn how to become "gods" ourselves. The whole premise of becoming our own God, to become just like God, to have the power and ability to make our own world(s) all of this is in line with what Lucifer wanted, and why he was cast out of heaven, for Lucifer wanted to become as God, to rule as God... and yet we see these very same desires and belief in Mormonism.
@@Jman81az Didn't say it made us equal. But eating the fruit helped us become more like God, he said so himself. Maybe becoming like God is a good thing. LDS doctrine has never taught that we can be equal with God. But we can be joint heirs with Christ and receive all the Father hath according to the Bible.
As a Mormon (now an ex-Mormon) this is what I was taught, the very things that Jeff and Mike Winger explained. I believed these things most of my life, having no doubts. When God finally opened my eyes to the truth, I realized I had only believed Mormon doctrine because it had been repeated to me over and over and over. Plus, it was all I knew, so I didn't question it. Dear Mormons, please don't be afraid to question Mormonism. Your soul is at stake.
@taylorsShockingStunningChannel I've had some dreams I knew were from the Lord about temple work, eternal marriage, and plural marriage. For example, one night, I woke up from a recurring theme in my dreams, and started praying in my mind while laying there, asking Father to take away the type of dreams I was having and asked if I could dream about something else instead. I went back to sleep and started dreaming about what I had asked for, and was given knowledge about my former life, I then saw the recurring theme stuff and a voice began telling me why I was dreaming about this all the time, and something I needed to do. Another dream I was shown the starry sky where stars represented family members coming together, and again a voice towards the end of the dream I needed to teach tbe people I saw in my dream about the importance of being sealed. That I would do it one way and my deceased brother would do it another. It would be impossible to convey everything here. But my most powerful spiritual experiences while awake have happened in the temple. If you're interested in hearing about more experiences, I'm happy to share.
@@ramsrnja Thank you for sharing this and for taking the time. As a former LDS, I know where you're coming from. As reformed Christians, we believe the only way God communicates with us is through His word, the Bible. We won't go beyond what is written. That's how heresy starts as well as false religions. So we would never trust a dream or "spiritual experience" as evidence of anything. I don't want to offend you but warn you.
@@How.To.Get.Saved. That's intriguing. So how would you explain Peter's dream he received that led to revelation that the gospel was to be preached to the Gentiles?
How and where was this taught? It is not in any LDS scripture, and I’d be interested to see it in any General Conference address by leaders. One can assume that if we are given the full inheritance to become like God (which undoubtedly would take eons of progression and learning, self-discipline, etc to perfect our natures), then if we can, like God, participate in the creation of worlds…then maybe a world with human life on it??? Again, this is not something that we have received much revelation on. We receive what we are ready for, line upon line; precept upon precept. At some point, mysteries will be well understood. Until then, we must exercise faith in those things we do know and dwell less on those things that are not as important in our progression at this time.
@mycatwould He copied and pasted the same comment somewhere else Doubt, he watched the video Mormon doctrine changes to please society Don't know how this cult religion continues to exist
I spoke to some Mormons online and gave them clear contradictions between their doctrines and the Bible and they weren’t picking up what I was puttin down. Mike Winger said it best, they have the same vocabulary but a different dictionary. God bless em.
As an ex mormon this kind of gaslighting is so unbelievably frustrating!! Yes, we were taught that we would get our own planet (well actually men would, I would just be one of the wives). We would make our own spirit children to send down to our own version of earth. And I didn’t even go through the temple ceremonies - this was all taught during normal Sunday school, seminary, young womens. It was well known this is what we were all working towards and why there’s such a push towards temple marriage because you can’t have your own planet if you’re single.
A lot of opinions were floated around in the early days of the Church that weren't directly revealed by the Lord. The only direct revelation about the laws and principles that govern the next life are in the revelations that we have in our scripture, so that is the official doctrine, what is in the scriptures, and what is officially declared to be doctrine.
@@ramsrnjayeah no this wasn’t opinions. This was taught all throughout my Mormon life and I was born into the church. It was doctrine no matter how much the church has now tried to move away from it. There’s a reason why there’s so many Mormon sects that don’t believe the mainstream LDS church is the same one set up by Joseph Smith.
And yet Jeff seems to have been unable to find those quotes for this video. NOTE: "populate worlds" has a different meaning and connotation than "get your own planet after making tons of spirit babies". Just like how 'Sky Daddy' and 'Father in Heaven' seem basically the same but Christians embrace one of the terms and chafe at the other.
@@lukehanson_ Worlds and planets are the same thing. If you create your own world, didn't you get your own planet? LDS Church Manuals “To live in the highest part of the celestial kingdom is called exaltation or eternal life. To be able to live in this part of the celestial kingdom, people must have been married in the temple and must have kept the sacred promises they made in the temple. They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. THEY WILL EVEN BE ABLE TO HAVE SPIRIT CHILDREN AND MAKE NEW WORLDS FOR THEM TO LIVE ON, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted” (Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201).
As a former Mormon of 42 years, I can confirm that this is absolutely what was taught! The gaslighting and rebranding of the corporation, continue to show the world just how deceptive they are! Thank you for your work, so many of your videos helped me get out of the cult, remove my records, and become a true follower of Jesus! 🙏
Their comments about Mike Winger were enough for me not to take them seriously (never-mind their behavior on their show). Mike is a great teacher who has an immense respect for God’s Word. I’m sad for these individuals who are lied to about who God is.
Mike Winger was embarrassingly wrong on many points he made in that video we responded to. His comments were enough that you should not take him seriously when it comes to Mormonism. I'll provide a few examples: -We think he is going to be a son of perdition. -The missionaries live with people paid by the church to indoctrinate them more every day they come home from teaching. -The gold plates would have weighed at least 200 pounds As I noted in the video I think Mike does know his stuff for many parts of the Bible, but that does not make him an expert on things outside of the Bible.
@@BrendonKing I have been in talks to discuss with Jeff on his channel. I'm not sure what has prevented it from happening so far, but perhaps it will happen in the future
@@sarahd5341 The members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are the most genuine, kind, thoughtful, respectful, honest, selfless people I have ever met. It amazes me how people are so cruel and condemning of such a collective group of good, God-fearing people. 🤷♀️🤷♀️ I guess that Biblical scripture is true, that the true followers of Christ will have persecution at hate heaped upon them until Christ returns.
I was studying with LDS missionaries in Finland back in 2002, and meanwhile had an opportunity to travel to USA, and there especially to Salt Lake City, where I stayed for a month to see the center of mormonism myself. I remember I was in Salt Lake Temple visitors' center one day and talked with two S-Korean missionaries and said something like this:"One of the most challenging obstacles for me to join your church, is the doctrine that Heavenly Father hasn't always been God, but was once a mortal man like us and has thereafter attained His Godgood over billions of years. Is that really what your church teaches?" They seemed genuinely surprised and oblivious about this doctrine, as they asked their boss, an elderly gentleman(mission president?), to come over there and they asked him the same question I just had asked them. Right away, he replied:"No, that's not true. We don't teach a doctrine like that.." He seemed very nervous and uncomfortable and I knew he wasn't telling the truth and that it was practically impossible for an LDS elder in that position not to be aware of such a fundamental doctrine in mormonism. I cannot be sure, if it was just him, who just spontaneously wanted to get rid of an uneasy topic, or was he instructed not to make visitors aware of such "deep doctrines" of their church. Back then, I was most taken aback by his dishonesty, maybe even more than that doctrine itself. I certainly had read the King Follet discourse some time before that discussion. Today, I'm a born-again christian, thanks to God!
After going round and round with a Mormon on this subject, it finally came out that she didn’t believe she was being deceptive by saying they don’t “get” their own planet. She finally admitted that they “create” their own planet. But, clarification did not come from her, it needed to be pulled out. Still seems deceptive to me!
Yep, you were able to understand what we were trying to say when Jeff seems unable. It is like the difference between 'sky daddy' and 'Father in Heaven' they seem very similar, but those terms are used to convey very different connotations. My issue is not that I'm trying to cover something up, I'm calling people out who clearly are explaining it in a way intended to mock rather than accurately represent my faith.
it's even worse because actually mormons believe god does not create he organizes matter. that's why they believe in polygamy. as a god they cannot create a spirit. that's why they believe god and mary had sex. god couldn't just create a spirit for jesus and a body. there's a lot of blasphemies in mormonism. a lot of them won't even accept it all even after being raised their whole life with the teaching.
You know what? I am a faithful Latter-day Saint and I am gonna say you jave a point here Jeff. I wouldn't call it a face lift though because Kwaku is not a prophet and doesn't speak for the Church, but it's true that we (the members) tend to hide some of the teachings of the Church to avoid being the subject of ridicule to people who don't understand these sacred things. Let me also point out that when the guy on Ward Radio said: "Do they think that's half of Come Follow Me?", he is obviously not rejecting the teaching so much as he is saying that that's not the focus of our faith. There is a simple way you can know what is or isn't the focus of our faith. Look at how often the subject is brought up during general conference. The other thing you need to realize Jeff is that many of these teachings about creating worlds and peopling them are logical conclusions and not scriptural statements. So in this context, it's fair to say: "We don't know for sure". The king follet discourse is not scripture and a prophet on his own does not have the authority to cannonize what he teaches. Joseph Smith knew that and we all understand that. You should too! Finally, yes exaltation is a part our doctrine. We believe we have the potential to become like God, meaning inheriting all that He has including all His power. That's doctrine. Now here are a few logical conclusions we make from this: 1- Anyone who inherits the kind of power that God has will bear the title of God. 2- Once we get to bear the title "God", we will likely be doing what God has been doing, namely creating worlds without number, giving birth to spirit children to people them, governing them and helping them become Gods as well. Yes we make all these assumptions, and we (members and leaders alike) believe they are consistent with our doctrine, but none of it matters without first coming unto Christ through faith in Him, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring till the end on this path. That's the focus of our faith.
I was raised Mormon 18 yrs and still live in the typical Mormon neighborhood. They dont read the Bible or know what their Leaders in the past have even said. They only knowthe WOW and that they all will be Gods.. just crazy.
It was and is a true principle designed to unite many men and women together. But in the early days, they only taught part of the Law, which did lead some to feel entitled and lust after women. The Lord told his prophet Wilford Woodruff that if they continued to live it the way they were, they would be overcome. So they stopped the practice, which was a good thing. That doesn't mean that plural marriage isn't a true principle. My belief is that nothing in the Celestial Kingdom is singular.
“By their fruits ye shall know them,” the light of Jesus Christ will shine in those who are true disciples, in their countenances, speech, actions & feelings. When people are in tune with the Holy Ghost, they can discern what’s of God. 🙏
There are several comments here that are made by ex-LDS from the same time era I was a member(70s-1990). It was definitely taught and believed that men could become a god, not become "like" God, but actually become a god. Kimball's address of the priesthood holders that they were "gods in embryo" was a huge hit at the time. Chatting with LDS now often leaves me wondering if they seriously don't know their own teachings, or if their teachings have indeed changed that much, or are they just trying to gaslight me?
I think the point that the guys in the video were making is that we don't focus on teaching one verse in 132 that says "they become gods." The official doctrine is what is in the scriptures, but our doctrine we preach day to day is focused on Christ's teachings so that we can become perfected in Him. I think it makes perfect sense that a child can become like the parent or like God. The opposite view is purely illogical.
As a fifth generation Mormon of polygamous ancestors I lived 65 yrs of my life in the dreadful shadow of having to share my husband with an unlimited number of wives, if not here then for eternity. Now they say that was then, and yet still have multiple wives sealed to them. Abuse and lies.
I would pray about it with an open heart. The policy now is a holdover from the thought that we need to give every woman the chance to be married, but it's just a policy, and I understand that with permission now, a woman can be sealed to an additional husband after the first has died, and we of course seal all the husbands a woman has had to her after they are all dead.
I am sorry you went through this @hanichay1163. I pray you will find healing and wish I can give you a hug. Also pray you will come to know the true living God who would never will that for you.
Jeff is spot on when he says that Mormon apologists like Kwaku,are deliberately lying publicly about the doctrines of exaltation,(men becoming new gods),and about the plurality of gods in existence, as it has been taught officially by LDS prophets and apostles. I guess that “lying for the Lord” is a practice that is still going on strong in that aspect of Mormonism: hide, suppress and pretend like there’s “nothing to see here” when something in the doctrines or in the history become ridiculously embarrassing and impossible to defend. I find it hard to believe that any temple-recommend carrying LDS member is ignorant of those doctrines, since they are the core belief in Mormonism, and the sole objective of all of the secret oaths individuals and married couples take in LDS temples. Such oaths require people to abide by the law of the “patriarchal order of the Melchizedek Priesthood,” which is the law Mormon leaders have taught that God, the Father and Heavenly Mother are under themselves, and their obedience to it was what earned them their positions as new gods. Therefore, this new apologetic approach by younger Mormons is both silly as well as disingenuous.
If these are core doctrines, then temple recommends would likely require the holder to affirm a belief in. There is no recommended question asking to confirm belief in becoming a god, heavenly mother, plural marriage, etc. Please stop wasting so much time and energy in trying to shake the faith of the LDS people, and more time learning and understanding the doctrine of your own church, drawing closer to your Saviour, and developing charity, the pure love of Christ - for without charity, all else fails. Much love!
@@mycatwould Hello, there! Ex-LDS here, raised in the church. I think we can agree that the questions that are asked in an interview for a temple recommend are devised exclusively to assess if a member is worthy, according to the church’s leadership, to enter it or not. For example, no one is asked if they believe in the three degrees of glory or not as part of the the interview, although everyone who wants to be approved by their bishop to go in , are only targeting to end up in the celestial kingdom. Now, could I ask you if you personally, as a LDS, believe that in the exaltation you will be a god yourself? Do you believe that heavenly father is married to heavenly mother and that they are the literal parents of our spirits? Have you knowledge about what Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other early as well as recent Mormon prophets and apostles taught about this doctrine?
@@FromJosephtoJesusI have a belief (not a sure knowledge, but faith, yes) that through the grace of Jesus Christ I can be saved from physical death, and that if I keep the covenants that I have made with him, which include standing as a witness of him at all times and in all places, keeping his commandments (obedience), living the law of chastity, sacrificing all I have if necessary, being willing to share all I have to help build up God’s kingdom, and stay true and endure to the end of my life on earth, that I might have the POTENTIAL to someday learn to master myself in all ways and become perfected. If I can truly repent so that my sins are washed clean through the atonement of Christ, then my sins that are like scarlet will be made white as wool. It’s hard to conceive with my mortal, limited brain how that works - but I have faith in His word that if I keep my end of the covenants I have made, that He will always keep His. Do I feel like as soon as I am resurrected, and hopefully judged as worthy to gain an inheritance into the Celestial Kingdom, (which again as a natural man I have a lot of work to do) that I’ll be making planets on day 1? Not really. Again, these things have not been revealed, so we only know what we know - and yeah there are going to be a lot of questions and ideas that sprout. I have never heard anything specific regarding Heavenly Mother (or Mothers), but this doesn’t bother me. One of the first things God set up in the creation of the earth was the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth (plants, animals, and humans), which required male and females. Do I think I have a single Father in the Heavens? No - God sent Eve to be Adam’s helpmeet. I feel that he was following the pattern from eternity where we are meant to be together in unity with our spouse. So when I get the questions, yes I believe in God, I believe in his son, Jesus Christ; I have a testimony of the atonement; I pay a full tithe; I am honest with my dealings with my fellow men, etc. The hardest one for me is always: so you consider yourself worthy to enter the temple - because I know it is the house of God, I take this very seriously, and it is hard to judge oneself without seeing all the negative things that make me feel unworthy. But I have also come to understand that worthiness is NOT flawlessness. I will never be perfect in this life. I have millennia and eons to get to that level. As long as I am pointed towards Christ and not away from him, then I suppose that I am on his path…the covenant path. Sorry - no short answers from me :)
“Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”” Genesis 3:4-5 Mormons are agreeing with Satan, it just shows how easy mankind can be led astray and fall to Satan’s lies and deception. To believe you’ll be like God is the exact idea that made the fall of man come to be. To think the same sin is still controlling many people not just Mormons is sad.
Most of what Satan says is a half truth. Just look at the temptations of Jesus after his 40 day fast. The you will “not surely die” part was the lie mingled with the truth of them “knowing good from evil,” which did end up happening. I don’t think it is correct to say that Mormons are agreeing with Satan any more than Christians agree with him. I do know for a fact that Mormons do not believe that they become their “own Gods.” They believe that Heavenly Father will be the only true highest God.
@@ramsrnjaSo you're just going to ignore the passage quoted in the video from Isaiah where GOD clearly states that he is the one and only GOD and that he doesn't know of any other gods? Did you even watch the video? It makes it pretty clear that Mormonism is false.
@@ramsrnja yes one of us, as in now we can distinguish between good and evil… “And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well, and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever”-” Genesis 3:22 AMP If man is “like God” that doesn’t mean you are 100% like God, you can be like your father with characteristics and personality traits. Firstly we are made in the image of God, so of course we have aspects “like God”, this verse is referring to the fact we now know what Evil truly is. When Adam and Eve lost their innocence, they, too, understood the nature of evil because of its very real presence within them. They became “like God” in that they now realized what evil was truly like. If your trying to insinuate that Satan was honest, I’m going to listen to Jesus explain Satan has no truth in him. John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
I was born , raised, married in the temple and everything on the God makers does and did happen. Remember they change things in the temple because I think people like me questioned it. It scared me and when I would ask about the entire temple experience they would tell me to have faith. They also 100% said we could have our own planet and populate them . They do not believe Jesus is God. Also they change as the world changes. I did and deep dive research and ran when I found all the truths. Thank you God for you word, the scriptures. Jesus is my Lord and Savior❤
We absolutely believe Jesus is God. I've been a member all my life and this is the doctrine. He is God the Son. Sorry, you didn't understand that as a member. I've had numerous spiritual experiences and revelations confirming that the temple ordinances are binding in heaven. The presentation has changed indeed, for the better. Like any family, we are learning as we go, and all is not revealed at once.
It's not just 1 planet. It's actually a whole creation. This doctrine is all over. It's taught several times a year in Sunday School. (Former Mormon, attended the temple, etc.)
How and where was this taught? It is not in any LDS scripture, and I’d be interested to see it in any General Conference address by leaders or where in the Sunday school lesson manual. One can assume that if we are given the full inheritance to become like God (which undoubtedly would take eons of progression and learning, self-discipline, etc to perfect our natures), then if we can, like God, participate in the creation of worlds…then maybe a world with human life on it??? Again, this is not something that we have received much revelation on. We receive what we are ready for, line upon line; precept upon precept. At some point, mysteries will be well understood. Until then, we must exercise faith in those things we do know and dwell less on those things that are not as important in our progression at this time.
Ex mormon here. Mormons 100% are taught they can become Gods and create their own universe. Also, STRONGLY implied that our God was at one point a normal person in another universe that lived a normal good life and became God as we know him. I could have been taught poorly, so don't take what I say understanding this was what was taught in my Church in Idaho.
Nope, you're totally right. Lorenzo Snow taught, "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Man is sinful. Therefore, according to Lorenzo Snow, God was once sinful as well.
I’m not sure it’s taught that God was once a normal person that lived right. I think it’s implied that if anything He would have been like Jesus was to this existence. (Not sure it matters). But yes that one day we could become creators of our own. What is the extent of that? Don’t know. The second clip of these kids they actually weren’t off at all, she said it. Though they were quite silly the point about not knowing and not wanting guess is accurate.
@@kcb5336 oh you're right, I was never explicitly taught God being a normal person. Just in my situation, its pretty strongly implied - and if you were to ask, basically anyone would say they believe he was a normal human, but no text to my knowledge directly acknowledges that.
@@garysanders6091 That's very interesting, and just goes to show how inconsistent the LDS church is, becuase I was taught that God absolutely WAS a regular dude in his mortal life. Either way it's a lie, it's just interesting to see the different flavors the lie takes on when taught by different people.
I wish these “new” Mormons would at least acknowledge and say, “yes we were wrong but now we …” etc. And not just claim that we’re misrepresenting them.
Elder Uchdorf said it in conference. Mistakes were made in the past. So what. How many prophets and Israelites in the Bible made mistakes? All of them.
@@davidhiramreyes6490 No I very much believe he was a prophet of God, called and chosen to establish Christ's true church in the last days. And not only the church, but to lay the foundation of Zion and the Kingdom of God upon the earth. All the laws of God has to be revealed through him in, despite the fact the people were nor ready to receive and live Celestial law.
A common defense is "not enough modern leaders teach this, it isn't doctrine", or "ongoing revelation". Both, I believe, are mechanisms to circumvent troubling theology they've painted themselves into a corner with. It makes establishing a baseline of Mormon doctrine to engage with them akin to catching smoke with your bare hands.
it seems to the outsider mormonism is changing. it seems to be changing glacially slow, but it does seem to be changing. i say that because they have gospel topic essays that are officially published online. gospel topic essays comes right out and admits to things that could get you excommunicated in 1960. for example the gold plates are being replaced with the rock in a hat. so probably what you have, is some members "got the new memo" some members never "got the new memo" and some members believe both versions at the same time. how can that be? how can you believe 2 different things at the same time? they don't call it a cult for nothing.
My husband and I are ex-Mormons, and our favorite dis when we teasingly argue is, "You sound like a Mormon apologist." 🤣 Edit to Add: For what it's worth, I graduated from high school in 2014 and I was taught the "you will be gods" thing in seminary. So this change is extremely new. I'm both sad and embarrassed to see how many Mormons have memory-holed the doctrine. Like...? At least be bold and honest about your own religion.
The doctrine is not that all members will become a god. The scripture says that only those who keep all their covenants and overcome through Christ, which means becoming perfected and sanctified, become gods, which means we are sons and daughters of God. I don't see why this is so absurd, when God wants us to call him Father, and every child grows up to be like his/her parents.
The church is a family, and every family goes through a learning curve. There are a lot of truths that were revealed to the saints in the early days that they experimented living. I have a testimony that plural marriage is a true principle, but monogamy is God's standard for this earth. Plural marriage will go both ways. We forget that the early saints were all converts from Protestantism, which had similar traditions about women and blacks. They justified slavery because of what is written in the Bible.
@@ramsrnja It's absurd because God is the FIRST and the LAST, and there are NONE like Him. People who genuinely believe that they can be gods like YHWH are overestimating their own holiness and underestimating the holiness of God to a gross level. Please, I beg of you, read the Holy Bible like a child, without your preconceived notions. You have been lied to, but you don't have to stay stuck in that lie.
I was an adult Mormon convert for a time in the 2010s. When I asked about the planet thing I was told it was a higher doctrine and I’d learn about it after I went to the temple.
That’s interesting that they started to change the narrative in 2010s (I was already inactive then) but I learnt about the planets during normal Sunday school - I never went through the temple so evidently they used to be a lot more open about it.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Christ taught that "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Jeff are you calling me a liar? I thought we were friends even brothers, but didn't Jesus say: "If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not" Jeff I'm not offended because you have called me a liar, and I'd hope that we could still exchange kind words. Christ continues in verse 47, "He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." I would suggest that first we as men try to hear the words of God, and not do as Paul said that we as men would do to God "Change the truth of God into a Lie." There are a few other verses in Romans that I would direct you, and the curious mind to, as I know it is one of your favorite scriptures. See Romans 8. I would typically reference Romans 8:17, but I don't think that will convince you today, that we are children, heirs and joint heirs with Christ. Instead I will reference Romans 8 1-2, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." and also in verse 6, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Jeff to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Life and peace. "Jeff, Jeff, Why persecutest thou me? And he said, "Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Great video; the unnecessary background music detracts from it and makes it harder for people with hearing difficulties to understand what’s being said.
This is why 'Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother', is arguably the most difficult commandment. Do keep trying to save them though friend - it means everything. God Bless you.
I’m not necessarily a Christian but I’m still learning and I watch Mike Winger’s videos sometimes… he is extremely kind. It’s really rude for them to say “fake pastor.” Mormon doctrine has changed extensively over time.
I’m encouraged that you’re watching this channel if you’re not necessarily a Christian I hope you’ll watch other things on here and I hope and pray that you will be saved. ❤
I’m so glad you’re watching with an open mind. It sounds like the Holy Spirit is drawing you. I was raised by atheists and came to Christ at 31 years old. I can now look back and see how God called me and pursued me on an intellectual, emotional and spiritual level. I pray that you will continue to seek truth because it will lead you to Jesus. ❤
@@RustyShackelford261 How can I be so absolutely sure of Christ's trueness, and God's Existence, so that I could drastically devote my life to him? I've watched the debates, and it appears the athiests don't win, but for some reason I just can't make up my mind over God's Existence.
@@franceshaypenny8481 Pastor Winger is one of the best YT Christian theologians & pastors I have watched. His message is very insightful. The fact that they resort to insults and ridicule tells me how valid they and their faith are.
Thank you for this video and helping how false the Mormon teachings are from a ex Mormon of 67 years and finding out it’s all lies and having my name removed at 84 years old I feel so Bblessed to be ex Mormon 🙏🏻
Current LDS here. We talk past each other because in our belief… the word God represents both an entity… an order of beings…. And also the individual beings within that order… who as individual Gods….each represent the order of God. So there is one God, the entity or order, and has been for all eternity….. but the individual Gods within that order have not always themselves been God. Just trying to explain IMO why this doctrine is often misunderstood.
So it seems that Jeremiah in Chapter 23 prophesied about Jeff Durbin. "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord. For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord. Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord. I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord."
Thank you for your ministry Apologia church! I hope not only our Mormon friends & neighbors see this video, but also the countless former Mormons who have swapped the worldview of Mormonism for that of Agnosticism/Atheism. As a former mormon myself (and born again believer in the Lord now), I see many former Mormons hang on to one last lie that the Mormon church indoctrinated them with, that goes essentially like this: "If we're not the true church, there is no true church/religion". The Mormon church was founded on teachings that absolutely run contrary to the Biblical faith. So often I see former Mormons who have "deconstructed" (or whatever word you want to use) from Mormonism, think that Mormonism was sort of the pinnacle of the Christian faith or the best it had to offer because of it's Priesthood claims, and if it's not true, well then Christianity as a whole is just a sham. The truth is, Mormonism isn't 'Christian' in any meaningful sense of the word. It's a 'nominal Christianity', that is, 'in name only'. The majority of Mormons/Former Mormons have never heard the true, Biblical Gospel. Joseph Smith poured entirely different meanings into the Christian lexicon and created a tremendous language barrier between Christians and Mormons. We both use words like God, Grace, Jesus, Eternal Life, and mean completely different things. Anybody who has left the Mormon church and is well aware of the deceptive practices within, should challenge themselves to learn how Joseph Smith appropriated the Biblical narrative to build his cult.
The reality is, no matter how much evidence and proof we give those who are still bogged down in Mormonism, they are willingly choosing to ignore the evidence, willfully choosing to not use the God given ability to common sense, and unable to spiritually discern the truth, because for most of them, this "feeling" (elevation emotion) of the Holy Spirit (burning in the bosom that every walk of faith gets) is what they hang on to, not realizing or understanding, feelings can be deceptive, but the pure word of God he has given us in the Scriptures (Bible) can be fully trusted. Satan has masterpiece together his demon doctrine of becoming a God, and using the best deceptions and lies he has when he created each man made religion.
@@brotherinchrist72 Oh amen, I agree. Romans 1 is clear that all men know God by way of natural revelation and suppress that truth in unrighteousness. While former Mormons have been deceived into thinking that Mormonism was Christianity, absolutely it's not a problem of evidence. It's a problem of sin. Turning from one idol, to another. And yes, Mormons trusting in "sola experientia" versus "sola scriptura" is a big part of that. Yes, behind Mormonism and every other system of man-made religion is the same culprit.
I just learned about this the other day- it’s a marketing strategy called double speak that is done very deliberately by con artists - which Joseph Smith was one.
Biblical Christians ignore much of the Bible. The doctrine found in the Church of Jesus Christ matches up more with what the Bible says than what "Biblical Christians" say it means. It is a modern consensus doctrine, is really all it is. And I see evangelicals disagreeing with each other all the time!
Their beliefs are so strange and yet they try to claim that when we point out said strange beliefs, that we’re allegedly lying. It’s quite a sad tactic to save face. I pray they see this response and come to know the true Christ. 🙏🏽
Latter Day Saint here. I am very much alive in Christ and know he lives! I think there is much more in common about our belief between you and I then you know 😊
@@dallinpolson3218 As pastor Jeff often says himself, we do appreciate your guys’ passion for your faith. But I’m sorry, you cannot say you’re alive in Christ when you deny his deity. We are saved because of who Christ is; both God and man. To truly be alive in Him, walking with the Spirit, you must believe that He is God in the flesh who dwelt among us. I pray that you come to know the true Christ, as scripture teaches us. 🙏🏽
@@dallinpolson3218 Former Mormon here. You're denying Joseph Smith's first vision when you say we're more alike than we are different. "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." Are we an abomination or are we alike? Because you can't have it both ways.
Love Apologea. Love Pastor Durbin. Love that sexy background music! Seriously, thank you for this. I was so mad on Pastor Wingers' behalf when I saw their scoffing attitudes. Zero respect.
Love this teaching!! I’m in school at liberty university and I am learning about all religions right now so this really helps!! Going after a degree in apologetics!❤
If you are actually trying to learn about all religions, including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I would suggest learning from the Church’s website, actual LDS missionaries, or local members - you may be surprised to find some in your university classes even. If I wanted to learn about Christ, I wouldn’t ask his enemies…just saying.
@@mycatwould I'm curious so please answer my question. 1 John Chapter 4 verse 1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." Did Joseph Smith try Moroni to see if it was from GOD like the scriptures says to do?
@@war13death Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. Mormonism is refuted on that one verse before it gets off the ground. This is precisely what Joe claims. Muhammad tried it too.
@@rickdavis2235 You are 100% correct. I asked the question so that when they admit that Joseph Smith did NOT try the spirit they would have no choice but to admit that he is a false prophet as mentioned in the passage. In their book of Nephi it claims that the scriptures would be corrupted and all other religions (besides Mormonism) are of the devil. Due to the overwhelming number of manuscripts we know that the scriptures have not been corrupted and what the Bible says today is what it always said. This also proves Joseph Smith is a false prophet. I try to get them to see the truth so that they may embrace true Christianity and avoid eternal death.
I’m in a debate group with some young Mormons. I was trying to pin one down on it and he said that becoming like God and becoming a god are “basically the same thing”. I also think your own planet is a semantics dodge as they can create worlds not just one planet etc. Creating planets etc. is probably the coolest idea they have. Not sure why they want to cover it up besides to seem more like Christians.
Equally weird that they are attacked for it when science has now confirms the the universe is expanding and the rate at which its expanding is accelerating. Do Protestants have an explanation for why that is happening?
They believe they will be God's and goddesses..... Which means they are in fact pagan and do in fact have a pantheon. Moreover they teach we have a heavenly mother we are not allowed to talk to.
@@dallinpolson3218 You have nothing to worry about if your belief is solid. If it is not your church will direct you to stay away from any information that questions it
I love how the missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints invite others to Christ and share the good news of Christ gospel. I’m so thankful they are not schooled and professionally trained to point the finger of scorn, that they don’t judge the hearts of those they teach and dont tell their investigators they’re going to burn in hell because their Jesus can’t save them. I just love the powerful light and truth those young missionaries carry with them. By their fruits ye shall know them. ☀️❤️
@@Elizabeth-rk3do Malachi 3:10 “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” It’s a Biblical principle. My husband and I lived it as starving students. We paid a 10% tithe before we paid rent or bought groceries. We saw so many miracles and blessings that we made up a family motto “We can’t afford not to pay our tithing.” The Lord truly does pour out blessings beyond our ability to receive them when we trust Him and live His teachings. We are now living as upper class citizens. And we not only STILL joyfully pay 10% tithes, but we also give Into other charities. We STILL see miracles and blessings by paying our tithing. We love this Biblical principle. It’s not for everyone, but we LOVE it and are so grateful for it! An actual way to prove the Lord and see His Almighty Hand stretch out in our lives! ❤️☀️
@@Elizabeth-rk3do Malachi 3:10 “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” It’s an amazing Biblical principle. We lived it as poor students. We paid tithing before we paid rent or bought groceries. We saw miracles and blessings pour into our lives. We are now in the upper class and we STILL pay our tithing. We also give to other charities. And we STILL see incredible miracles and blessings, so much so that we don’t have room to receive them all. What a gift, to test the Lord and to prove His kindness in this way. He has given us a way to prove Him and not does He keep His Almighty promises. I realize this Biblical principle is not for everyone, but how we love it! Our family motto “we can’t afford not to pay our tithing!” It’s glorious! ☀️❤️
I do believe I recall Kwaku, or however you spell his name, on a video once talking about how yeah you do get your own planet and stuff. Now acting like it is all nonsense that they ever believed it? give me a break. I think it was when there was that "Three Mormons" show he was on or something. I feel like almost every time I see that guy show up he is lying about something. I dunno I could be mistaken :/ EDIT: Oh I should have just kept watching the video, because Jeff shows exactly that one I was thinking about.
Mormons are the more kind, easy going version of Muslims. Both cults were started in the same way, though, and for someeeee reason they've garnered some of the most devout followers I've ever witnessed. I love their steam to work for the Lord, but i pray the come to know the True God of Israel 🙏
The Romans and Jews thought Jesus and the apostles were leading a cult, too. And what were the Jews accusing them of? Blasphemy. The same thing the Saints are accused of today.
I’ll admit it pastor Jeff. The God of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is just more powerful than previous Christians had supposed. Thank God for Joseph Smith- for pulling back the curtain from our eyes.
You should learn how to test a prophet to see if he is true. deuteronomy 13 and 18-21 will help you understand that if a prophet has a false prophesy, they are a flase prophet. Now, D&C 114 says that David W. Patten was supposed to serve a mission the next spring. Guess what? David W patten DIED October 25, 1838. Am I supposed to believe that the LORD made a mistake in giving Joseph a false prophesy?
She was speaking to her audience (primarily members) who believe we are sons and daughters of a loving Heavenly Father…so as a king’s children are princes and princesses with potential to become kings and queens - she was just saying (in a different way) that she was among the children of God, which we all are everywhere we meet another living soul.
@@BrendonKingexcuse me? First: it’s not my church Second: how am I doing everything in my power to discredit LDS missionaries? Or other leaders? Also, from some of your other comments, it sounds like you were LDS at one point. What’s your story?
Great video. Thanks for responding to these guys. I'm seeing their stuff pop up quite a bit. Seems like Ward Radio's approach to proselytizing is to mock evangelicals. One small critique... The music bed isn't necessary. 😁
Again Jeff Durbin has shown himself to create strawmen arguments galore. I watched the Ward Radio episode when it came out. Of course Jeff likes to Cherry pick and not get to the heart of the matter. Watch the whole Ward Radio episode for yourself. The actual point was this is a common anti Mormon trope that is mentioned constantly. There point was point out where it says we will “get our own planet” in our canonized scripture. Sorry it is not there. It is a favorite trope of people like Apologia Jeff. The LDS doctrine of Exaltation could include that possibly but that was not revealed. The common trope is used to push their agenda of make LDS look bad or paint them in a negative light. Back to Durbin I have seen him do this repeatedly. Apparently Jeff has an audience that holds on to his every word. Check the ward radio episode this comes from and you will see your man omits many things to make his point that is worse than presenting a straw man.
Leaders in the LDS church taught that men would get their own planet. Joseph Smith said that people lived on Jupiter. Brigham Young taught that people lived on Jupiter and the sun. Maybe he meant that they lived on the sun at night. 🤔 (There's a reason the state of Utah has the highest rates of mental illness and suicide. Such a sad story. 😢) Joseph Smith had 50 men anoint him king of the earth during the Millennium, which they thought would soon take place. Joseph Smith was killed six weeks later. God will not be mocked.
Nobody can make it through the whole ward Radio program they are so obnoxious. RFM just destroyed them in a debate. Just lil kids trying to face a man. One man vs 3 fools
These concerned Christians are concerned whenever someone in the church says something that does not conform to what concerned Christians are teaching about beliefs of the church. From the time of Joseph Smith there were members of other churches telling lies about the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Wow you still fighting English in an attempt to sound smart I see. I find it funny youre making this comment in reference ot someone who has been caught lying as much as Kwaku has.
"Mormonism is in flux in our day. Many young Mormons are pursuing a "face-lift" minimizing or outright denying core and accepted teachings from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" - don't worry, christianity went through this over the last 2000 years many times. There have been quite a few "facelifts" in your religion
I know there were bigger lies in that video, but it really bothered me that they tried to slander Mike Winger, it's so petty, it shows they have zero integrity
So it's okay for Mike Winger to slander the church, but not okay for someone to correct what he says? Double standard. Mike Winger said many things that were simply false.
@@graceupongrace2639 well, just starting watching part one again. First, Winger suggests that the Book of Mormon was written because there was an obsession at the time with Native Americans. This is not why the Book of Mormon came about. There is no evidence to support this suggestion. Next he says the people became darker throughout the BofM, and then Winger calls Joseph a racist. This is false as well, as the Book of Mormon describes the people becoming lighter skinned as well and they intermarried. We see that many times in the Book of Mormon, the darker Lamanites are more righteous than the lighter Nephites, and in fact they end up totally destroying the lighter Nephites because of their wickedness which exceeded the Lamanites. You'd think if Joseph was a racist he would have not included something like that. When Joseph ran for President he took an anti-slavery stance, and the first black man to receive the priesthood was approved by Joseph. To say he was any more racist than any man or woman of that day is intentionally deceitful. This is just in the first 30 seconds of listening to Winger. Perhaps in the morning I will keep going!
@@ramsrnja ) you don't believe that's how the book of Mormon came to be. I would encourage to look at Mormon history from a non-mormon . Its hard to hear but he is right. 2) .....man, have you read the book of Mormon? The Lamenites get darker as they get more evil, and their clothes start to resemble so indigenous people of America....because one of Joseph Smith's beliefs when he wrote the BoM was the some Jews turned into native Americana, like in View of the Hebrews. So, you can make a case that Joseph Smith wasn't THAT racist, but saying they got dark skin as a result of a curse is a racist viewpoint, and then there was Brigham Young, and following prophets that it's much harder to make excuses for. The Mormon cooperation fought against desegregation. Again, you might not LIKE the things that Mike Winger said, but he's saying them with integrity. Right now you're suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. I encourage you to repent and turn away from a blasphemous organization and call out to God for mercy.
@@graceupongrace2639 Winger says the plates Joseph received would have had to weigh 200 lbs. This is not true. The accounts say they weighed between 40-60 lbs, and no where do we claim that the plates were made of pure gold, which we assume is how Winger is making this claim. Winger says that the Church claims that the events in the Book of Mormon happened on the hill Cumorah in New York. This is not true, as the church has never claimed to know exactly where the events took place in North or South America. There are members who speculate of course, but there is not an official stance from apostles. Winger says that there were never horses or steel in America at the time the BofM took place, but there is evidence that there were horses and likely some form of steel as well. Winger says that we can trust the witnesses of Jesus's resurrection because they were willing to die for their belief, but implies that the early saints were not willing to do the same. He conveniently forgets that both Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum, along with many other early saints died for their testimonies of the truth. Winger claims that Oliver Cowdery denied the Book of Mormon, but that isn't true, because Oliver came back to the church and confirmed his testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon. Winger says that all eight witnesses of the BofM left the church, but that isn't true
I lived in Utah for 9 month's as an aircraft mechanic.. From my experience with Mormons (I am not a mormon), they want nothing to do with you if you're not a mormon.. I had a co-worker ask me if I was a part of their church and I said NO! He walked away.. LOL
@@BrendonKing That is my observation and I believe it to be true. I've been a member for 46 years and, and members in my experience are friendly with non-members, and don't shy away unless there are issues with bad language or other behaviors they don't want to participate in. That doesn't mean every member is friendly. A lot like myself are simply introverted or shy.
Their theology of eternal progression makes sense, a lot better than hoping I selected the right Christian religion and spending forever telling God how great he is. What is heaven if not progress? What is Heaven to everyone else? I guess we would just be in bliss? Do we have our families?
If Jeff really understood Mormon doctrine, I believe he would be much more genuine about their beliefs. Like when he talks about God, there is a lot of conflation with what God means in certain contexts. It is said by the Mormon prophets that they may become like God, which involves the ability of creation. If anything, they would get their own universe, not just a planet. That’s not giving their ideas enough credit. Also, why would the idea that God wants everyone to be like Him be so horrible and evil? If that is actually God’s desire, how could that be an evil desire?
@@andreatimmers1720 I don’t understand your comment. Mormons say he got the boot for wanting to take God’s glory by taking away the agency of man. That is very different than God wanting His children to be glorious like He is.
@@andreatimmers1720 Show me where in the Bible it says that God doesn’t want to bless His children with His glory. John 1 says nothing of it. Romans 8 talks of man receiving His glory up to and including becoming joint heirs with Christ. If Christ is God, then what else could it mean? It says He will reveal the glory in us. It says that Christ will be firstborn among many brethren. Paul’s words strongly hinting at our potential to become God-like.
@@Jamo12 Believe whatever you want. I am debating my Muslim neighbor he is more entertaining. Actually they have some similar beliefs as LDS. I am sure you will be a terrific God.
Lot of strawing manning, innuendos, and outright mischaracterization about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Question 1: What do you think it means in Romans 8:14 that states: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."? It is promised in Romans 8:17: "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together" If God is our Father, then why, as His sons and daughters, should we not obtain the same privileges and glory He has? Did God mean that promise, or not? Isn't that what "heirs" mean, to obtain all that our father has? In the parable of the prodigal son, the faithful son, thought chastise for not welcoming his wayward brother back home, was specifically told that all his earthy father had would become his. That is not an accident that Christ stated that, to show our status as His children, and what we could obtain. Me becoming a father with a wife and children does not take away the ascendant position, r reverence or respect to my earthy father. Nor does us, as God's children, supplant or share the same status of God by being giving the same opportunity to enjoy what He does. The afterlife in heaven is a subject that no other Christian faith has explained, other than to assume we as God's children will remain in a frozen stasis playing harps and singing in a choir. Christ said there would be many mansions, and Paul describe the degrees of glory differing from each other as the sun, moon, and stars. "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 Right there the scripture avows that there are gods in number, but still God the Father is the supreme, and the only one whom we worship. We are His children through Christ, not puppets or pets, but children who will follow their Father's footsteps and do the same things He has done. Christ himself said that to his disciples "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12 Why should any Christian believe God would lie, and not give all that He has to them that love and obey Him? In regards of polygamy, explain why God allowed Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses, to have multiple lives. Did they sin, to begat the house of Israel? Are the twelves tribes all illegitimate offspring? Mary and Joseph are descendants from them. God commands and revokes. He didn't just turn a blind eye if what those patriarchs did was sin, and humor them. I noticed none of these scriptures or the concept of being joint heirs, as sons and daughters of God, were addressed at all,other than repeating the "Having your own world" mantra over and over. Either those scriptures and references mean what they say, or else you are choosing to pass over them,and downgrade them as merely colorful descriptions that have no real meaning.
Your counterfeit interpretations aren't what the Bible is saying at all : it's obviously you don't know Christian theology from the Early church of the Authentic Apostles. YHWH created the other Elohim (gods ) they aren't Jesus brothers and sisters as you think you R . haSatan is the adversary: not an actual person in the Old Testament so its not Jesus brother either! Jesus the visible YHWH ( second person of the trinity ( God) became a man in his incarnation by setting aside some of his divine attributes that makes him YHWH) created men and women don't become gods and your fake Celestial kingdom members don't get planets either as that's just a way to get you to buy your way in with the 10% monthly gym fee.
@@mycatwould LOL 😆 your ignorance is overwhelming as you don't even believe the Bible is translated correctly! Articles of Faith #8. U all Trying to proof text from it is hilarious ignorance!
@@davidjanbaz7728 Your rebuttal is based on the same human understanding that had splintered Christianity for centuries. The Gospel of Christ and the Bible have been the subject of debate no less than than bitter rivalry between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Every well meaning person who picks up a Bible becomes their own authority of it, yet all ignore the crucial elements of having the authority by the laying on of hands, baptism, the gift of the Holy ghost, in a established church by Christ Himself with a prophet and 12 apostles, all laid out in the NT, especially in Acts. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Say Saints has all these components that Christ instituted and were meant to feed his flock. Billy Graham, Frank Turek, and Mr Durbin are good, well meaning men, but they do not have the authority or position the same as a prophet of God, and to their credit they don't claim to be a prophet, which reveals the weakness of their position. Their evangelical movements depend on their own knowledge and speaking charisma, and I have yet to hear any of them say they have the specific authority to receive revelation and speak in God's name as His representative. Picking up a Bible alone or going to a theological school is not sufficient. Either one is directly called to be God's prophet and spokesperson, as established throughout the Bible, or else they are just well-meaning people who have mortal opinions of what they think God said. Read 2 Peter 1:20-21. It states that no scripture is of private interpretation, but by prophecy through the Holy Ghost, making that individual the called prophet and called spokesman on earth for God. Without a designated prophet, we all are mere humans with mental limitations and bias arguing endlessly over what we think God said and meant, with the only common agreement that Jesus was the Christ, and we are dependent upon his atonement and resurrection to save us. Christ meant his followers to be one, yet here we are, some who follow Turek, others Durbin, and many others, yet they are all in their own separate congregations, not united, with no designated head like Peter or Paul. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only Church that claims to be established as the original Church that Christ organized when He called Peter and the twelve apostles, restored by calling Joseph Smith by direct divine visitation and ongoing revelation. One is free to disagree about Joseph Smith and the present day Church, but theologically one cannot ignore the pattern God established in the Bible of having a designated prophet with the power and authority to speak in His name, nor the need for a organized Church made not by man but directed by God just like the early church by Christ.
I am Christian catholic I have family that is Mormon and they have tried to speak to us about their faith but, we always say we don’t want to speak about that we will believe in Christ of the Bible not a man made church. They donnot teach the gospel.
I went to BYU Provo from 2010-2012. My geology professor started one lecture with a lighthearted, "You guys need to learn this for when you're creating your own planet!" They were still teaching this stuff barely 10 years ago. Spirit children to populate your own world was 100% accepted back then. These young kids are woefully mislead and blinded. There is anger under the laughter. The cowardly older generation who lie about their cult's history is equally to blame. Learning real church history was traumatic for me, I transferred to another college and became an atheist for years until Jesus mercifully saved me. Mormonism isn't harmless. Pretending it's just another denomination isn't kind. You might avoid an awkward conversation but you pass the debt on to the children. They're the ones who pay.
Discernment isnt about knowing right and wrong. Its about knowing right from almost right. I think that's something Spurgeon said. Praise God for our truth that is never changing. How confusing to be in a religion that needs to stick with the times. Thanks Pastor.
What people may not know about Adams role in bringing us mortality is that the rest of the text basically says thank you to Adam for listening to eve, because if Adam hadn’t listened to eve we’d still be stuck in the preexistence and we wouldn’t be able to progress to become gods ourselves. He says adam did his part and he’s glad adam did because he’s glad for mortality, but never once did he lament for the rebellion against a perfect Creator, nor does he mention that it was ultimately the serpents voice, not just eve. Honestly the lack of the fear of the Lord in lds doctrine is astounding.
It's true. God set up Adam and Eve to transgress, because as God's children that is the only way an innocent child learns, is by choosing and living with the consequences. The plan had to include opposition or choices, and a Savior. God has all foreknowledge so he knew they would fall before they did. And the fact that they naked and knew not shows they were not accountable as adults but were innocent as children. That's why it was a transgression and not a sin.
Yes I figured and they say that and also Mormons really do have such a god complex because they literally believe that they are righteous enough and that they will become gods one day. That’s what The Devil did because he wanted to become like god and then he got kicked out of heaven for it.
Becoming like God doesn't mean you become a god. BTW, only pagan gods are married. The true and living God is not married. God doesn't need, want or have sex. There will be no procreation in heaven. Believers will be as the angels.
Great upload Jeff. ... was just wandering if we could unpack the issue of whether lying and deception is even relevant if it's coming from those who are not yet born-again? In this case (Mormons). Are we perhaps subconsciously expecting a Biblical standard of morality to naturally be practiced by those who are not yet transformed?
The sad part is these young LDS members don’t even know the doctrine and teachings of their own Church. I’m a ex-Mormon went to priesthood camp, attended seminary blessed and pass the sacrament in as part of the A. priesthood. Everything Jeff talks about can be found in the Celestial marriage study manual you receive before being sealed at least they used to.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
I am 33 and in the process of leaving mormonism. I was taught all the things they are mocking. It's the whole point and premise of the work done in mormon temples - to become exalted Gods and Goddesses, becoming and doing all that I was taught to believe God and Jesus do. It's wrong, it's idol worship and not the worship of the one true God, and I'm tired of the gaslighting and lies from those who taught this to me.
Your information and teaching are so important and valuable. Please ditch the lounge background elevator music, it diminishes and distracts from your truth!
To watch the full response and to better equipped to respond to worldview issues like this visit apologiastudios.com/shows/collision and join All-Access today! Lots of powerful and informative content for our partners just like you!
Thank you for these!! I’m studying apologetics and greatly appreciate this content!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
It's not our job to point out others. We should just testify, and get them to open their bible. All this seems like extra. BUT I am willing to have my mind changed.
@@usgamechamp1091 In my opinion, I wouldn’t say he’s exactly pointing anything out, but rather giving the full context and it helps to know all this the full context that is so that way when you are witnessing to these other religions, you know everything that they believe in so that way you can know what to say, and know how they differ its apologetics 101
@@Izzykittygamer Well said. I have never seen this type of action change anyone's heart. You have a better chance at testifying how Jesus has touched your life AND ask them to open their bible. Works way better AND it my opinion is the biblical way to handle it.
Interesting that to start your calling out for lies, and you start with a string of lies. Shameful. You have a very long history of saying things and eating crow yourself.
63 year old former mormon here...Jeff is spot on . This is what i learned from childhood on throughout my life. I'm so grateful for this ministry
Awesome man.🎉🎉🎉
Have you considered reaching out or challenging these young new age mormons with some lived out truth and history behind their movement
100 percent, your amazing. I left after 38 years. So amazing you did after 63 years. Jeff has helped my journey so much
@@brendaleehayter8464it’s not of terrible use, I’m afraid. The beliefs that changed are merely swept under the rug as the mistakes of the generation that came before.
Pastor Jeff is so wonderful. I learn so much.
Thank you so much!
I was a Mormon for 36 years.
Today I gave up my membership.
I am so grateful for your help!
Thanks again.
Now I feel free and blessed , I can worship the God of the Bible and His Son Jesus Christ!
The Bible is all you will need , all the answers are in there. So happy that you have come to know the true God of the Bible ❤
Oh that is so wonderful to hear! Welcome to the flock!! Praise God!
I would encourage you to not be so hasty but to speak to others about their conversion to the church and why they believe. There's lots of testimonies on UA-cam as well. It is all true, friend. I give you my witness. I love the gospel and all the doctrine, despite the mistakes of past members or leaders. As a woman I even have a testimony of plural marriage and that it will be equal for all in the Celestial Kingdom.
@@ramsrnjaJesus made it very clear that in the resurrection there is no marriage but we will be like the angels. This is directly contradicted by Joseph Smith when he says you will be still married in the resurrection. Please disregard Joseph Smith's lies (Mormonism) and embrace the true gospel stated in the Bible. I don't want anyone to end up in the lake of fire for following a false religion and I'm very concerned that this will happen to Mormons.
@@ramsrnja Joseph Smith and every LDS prophet since him have preached a gospel of “do,” negating the gospel of “done” that Jesus preached and was. The LDS church is all about what it and its members must still do and be if they want to live with God (and be a god) one day.
The true church is all about proclaiming what Christ has DONE to make us right with God now for all eternity. It’s a certainty.
Jesus Christ canceled the record of debt that was held against us when He shed his blood, on the cross, died and rose again. All you need to do is accept Christ by faith. It isn't because of who you are and what you must do for God. It is because of who God is and what He did for you in sending Jesus to be the sacrificial offering for your sins. To be your substitute on the cross and to satisfy the demands of God's law that stands against you.
Christ has done the one work that was necessary to reconcile you to God. Christ has done the one act of righteousness that could bring justification and life to all men. All Christ is asking with open arms is for you to lay down your religiosity and works at the foot of the cross and allow Christ to take it.
Salvation is quite simple.
Luke 18 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’
13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’
14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
I grew up Mormon (we proudly called ourselves that) during the presidency of Spencer W. Kimball (70s and early 80s). I can attest that I was taught what is now disavowed about exaltation. Later, God helped me see that this teaching contradicts his sure word in the Bible. The Bible is clear that there is, was, and will ever only be one true and living God. Thanks, Jeff, and God bless!
It's truly nice to see other former Mormons who found the truth in the word of God (The Bible) and find the one true Christ. You may not realize this, but the vast majority of those who leave Mormonism over the past many years are those who didn't like the LDS church attitude towards homosexuality, or other things that offended them, and they fall away and become atheists.
I was pulled into Mormonism in the very early 1980's and remained till the 2000's. I to remember all these original doctrines taught in both seminary and general knowledge in classes.
My prayers are for all those in Mormonism, that they will find the truth, but so many would rather stick their heads in the sand instead of delving into the truth of Mormonism, it's history and origins. It reminds me of what a seared mind is like, when someone believes so much in another doctrine outside of the Scriptural teachings, they have a much harder time breaking free, but it is a choice, for they choose to ignore the warnings and choose to ignore the evidence, facts, truths.
Maybe read up on the doctrine of Theosis, taught for two thousand years by the 2nd largest branch of Christianity. "Partaking of the divine nature" it says in Peter. Ridiculing true doctrine by Evangelicals doesn't make it any less historical or true.
@@lemjwp1756 I did not ridicule any view. I simply affirmed that I was raised as a Mormon and that I no longer believe it is true on the basis of my understanding of the Bible.
I have read the whole Bible many times, so of course I'm familiar with 2 Pet. 1:4. I'm sure we interpret it differently. I've also read many whole works of the Greek fathers: Athanasius, the Cappadocians (Basil and the two Gregories), Chrysostom, and Maximus the Confessor, to name a few. Eastern patristic theology is completely different from Mormonism on this and most other issues.
Thanks for a civil reply. I was an Evangelical for many years and so you can bet I've studied these matters intensely. I was speaking in general about how Evangelicals ridicule exhaltation, as in the godmakers, cartoon style. Theosis is a fascinating study,,and I would suggest taking a look at the research by modern non-LDS theologians on the topic, as well as early church fathers who spoke in explicit terms about Theosis meaning becoming as God is. God is not alone, as an ethereal,, invisible force, but rather is a real and tangible being who is building his family, after his own kind, as he created all other life, to reproduce after its "kind". We were created in the image and likeness of God. 1 John 3:2 says when we see Christ, we shall see him as he is and will be like him. Strong words.
@@lemjwp1756 We will have disagreements regarding the interpretation of Scripture, which is the Bible alone.
One key issue that I had to do, was to take a deep dive in the Biblical theology, which included reviewing what could be proven in a more secular approach.
Things such as geographical locations, where did things take place, do we have any evidence of these events, or people groups, or their way of life?
There are many tests that can be applied universally to help us discern and understand the truth, for real truth is universal, it cannot be altered or changed and is the same for every person.
When I look at the countless proofs through archeological means at all these Biblical locations, we find strong compelling evidence of many of the events that took place, along with the people groups that once lived in them, their way of life, their language, and so on.
When I take the same tests and use it for the history of the Book of Mormon and the people it talks about in it, I cannot find any reasonable proof of any kind that shows these Nephites and Lamanites ever existed, for there are no cities, items, or other mediums of their language to found anywhere in the Americas, nor is there any real geography listed in the Book of Mormon of where the people lived that can be verified.
We even see DNA evidence that supports the Bible in so many ways, but yet when the DNA results came forward regarding the American Indians and other indigenous people in the Americas, we find that they do not come from Israel or have any ancestral origin from those people, thus causing the LDS church to change their wording on this matter.
The truth and reality is, The Book of Mormon is a fictional writing taken from several sources, and Joseph Smith was himself deceived by an angel of light which I believe was Lucifer himself, for we know he has the power to become an angel of light as stated in the Scriptures, and thus Joseph believed in all these things, and preached a false doctrine.
There is no way to reconcile the passages in Isaiah with Mormonism, when God clearly tells us he is the first and the last, there is no other God besides him, he knows not one.
This is completely counter to what Joseph Smith said in his King Follett Discourse when Smith declared that God was once a man like us, and we have to learn how to become "gods" ourselves.
The whole premise of becoming our own God, to become just like God, to have the power and ability to make our own world(s) all of this is in line with what Lucifer wanted, and why he was cast out of heaven, for Lucifer wanted to become as God, to rule as God... and yet we see these very same desires and belief in Mormonism.
62 yr old former life time member. Thanks for helping me open my eyes.
All I’m hearing is Satan in the garden “you will be like God”… 😐
Ask them who tells them about apron .. the sign of their priesthood. Who’s wearing it in the garden?
God also says in Genesis that Adam and Eve had become LIKE THEM, knowing good and evil.
@@ramsrnjayup. Funny how they left that last part out as it sounds a lot more scandalous to say only “you will be like god…”
@@ramsrnjathis is just a reminder that we are not God so gained knowledge of good and evil you think that makes us equal ? Come on just ignorant.
@@Jman81az Didn't say it made us equal. But eating the fruit helped us become more like God, he said so himself. Maybe becoming like God is a good thing. LDS doctrine has never taught that we can be equal with God. But we can be joint heirs with Christ and receive all the Father hath according to the Bible.
As a Mormon (now an ex-Mormon) this is what I was taught, the very things that Jeff and Mike Winger explained. I believed these things most of my life, having no doubts. When God finally opened my eyes to the truth, I realized I had only believed Mormon doctrine because it had been repeated to me over and over and over. Plus, it was all I knew, so I didn't question it. Dear Mormons, please don't be afraid to question Mormonism. Your soul is at stake.
As a Saint, I have questioned the hard questions, and received my answers that it's all true and this is the Lord's church.
@@ramsrnja Hi, ramsnja, how did you receive your answers?
@taylorsShockingStunningChannel I've had some dreams I knew were from the Lord about temple work, eternal marriage, and plural marriage. For example, one night, I woke up from a recurring theme in my dreams, and started praying in my mind while laying there, asking Father to take away the type of dreams I was having and asked if I could dream about something else instead. I went back to sleep and started dreaming about what I had asked for, and was given knowledge about my former life, I then saw the recurring theme stuff and a voice began telling me why I was dreaming about this all the time, and something I needed to do. Another dream I was shown the starry sky where stars represented family members coming together, and again a voice towards the end of the dream I needed to teach tbe people I saw in my dream about the importance of being sealed. That I would do it one way and my deceased brother would do it another. It would be impossible to convey everything here. But my most powerful spiritual experiences while awake have happened in the temple. If you're interested in hearing about more experiences, I'm happy to share.
@@ramsrnja Thank you for sharing this and for taking the time. As a former LDS, I know where you're coming from.
As reformed Christians, we believe the only way God communicates with us is through His word, the Bible.
We won't go beyond what is written. That's how heresy starts as well as false religions.
So we would never trust a dream or "spiritual experience" as evidence of anything. I don't want to offend you but warn you.
@@How.To.Get.Saved. That's intriguing. So how would you explain Peter's dream he received that led to revelation that the gospel was to be preached to the Gentiles?
Exmo here, growing up in the church in the 80s it was OPENLY taught that we would be gods of our own worlds...
How and where was this taught? It is not in any LDS scripture, and I’d be interested to see it in any General Conference address by leaders.
One can assume that if we are given the full inheritance to become like God (which undoubtedly would take eons of progression and learning, self-discipline, etc to perfect our natures), then if we can, like God, participate in the creation of worlds…then maybe a world with human life on it??? Again, this is not something that we have received much revelation on. We receive what we are ready for, line upon line; precept upon precept. At some point, mysteries will be well understood. Until then, we must exercise faith in those things we do know and dwell less on those things that are not as important in our progression at this time.
@@mycatwould Mostly in young mens, but it was openly talked about during SM too. Here is Nelson saying it in 2018; watch?v=vqmav-7_qVs&t=3753s
@@mycatwoulddid you not watch the video
@mycatwould
He copied and pasted the same comment somewhere else
Doubt, he watched the video
Mormon doctrine changes to please society
Don't know how this cult religion continues to exist
The LDS prophets taught, again and again, that we would get worlds of our own and populate them with our own spirit children.@@mycatwould
I spoke to some Mormons online and gave them clear contradictions between their doctrines and the Bible and they weren’t picking up what I was puttin down. Mike Winger said it best, they have the same vocabulary but a different dictionary. God bless em.
@@Butternut1861 true that
As an ex mormon this kind of gaslighting is so unbelievably frustrating!! Yes, we were taught that we would get our own planet (well actually men would, I would just be one of the wives). We would make our own spirit children to send down to our own version of earth. And I didn’t even go through the temple ceremonies - this was all taught during normal Sunday school, seminary, young womens. It was well known this is what we were all working towards and why there’s such a push towards temple marriage because you can’t have your own planet if you’re single.
A lot of opinions were floated around in the early days of the Church that weren't directly revealed by the Lord. The only direct revelation about the laws and principles that govern the next life are in the revelations that we have in our scripture, so that is the official doctrine, what is in the scriptures, and what is officially declared to be doctrine.
@@ramsrnjayeah no this wasn’t opinions. This was taught all throughout my Mormon life and I was born into the church. It was doctrine no matter how much the church has now tried to move away from it. There’s a reason why there’s so many Mormon sects that don’t believe the mainstream LDS church is the same one set up by Joseph Smith.
And yet Jeff seems to have been unable to find those quotes for this video. NOTE: "populate worlds" has a different meaning and connotation than "get your own planet after making tons of spirit babies". Just like how 'Sky Daddy' and 'Father in Heaven' seem basically the same but Christians embrace one of the terms and chafe at the other.
@@lukehanson_
Worlds and planets are the same thing. If you create your own world, didn't you get your own planet?
LDS Church Manuals
“To live in the highest part of the celestial kingdom is called exaltation or eternal life. To be able to live in this part of the celestial kingdom, people must have been married in the temple and must have kept the sacred promises they made in the temple. They will receive everything our Father in Heaven has and will become like Him. THEY WILL EVEN BE ABLE TO HAVE SPIRIT CHILDREN AND MAKE NEW WORLDS FOR THEM TO LIVE ON, and do all the things our Father in Heaven has done. People who are not married in the temple may live in other parts of the celestial kingdom, but they will not be exalted” (Gospel Fundamentals [2001], 201).
Tell me in the scriptures where it mentions eternal sex?
As a former Mormon of 42 years, I can confirm that this is absolutely what was taught! The gaslighting and rebranding of the corporation, continue to show the world just how deceptive they are! Thank you for your work, so many of your videos helped me get out of the cult, remove my records, and become a true follower of Jesus! 🙏
I love how he calls it a face lift. That's exactly what this is.
@@anniejensen77 more like a complete face transplant! The current Mormon church is unrecognizable, from just years ago!
Their comments about Mike Winger were enough for me not to take them seriously (never-mind their behavior on their show). Mike is a great teacher who has an immense respect for God’s Word. I’m sad for these individuals who are lied to about who God is.
Mike Winger was embarrassingly wrong on many points he made in that video we responded to. His comments were enough that you should not take him seriously when it comes to Mormonism. I'll provide a few examples:
-We think he is going to be a son of perdition.
-The missionaries live with people paid by the church to indoctrinate them more every day they come home from teaching.
-The gold plates would have weighed at least 200 pounds
As I noted in the video I think Mike does know his stuff for many parts of the Bible, but that does not make him an expert on things outside of the Bible.
lol
@@lukehanson_glad to see you on here Luke, and love your contributions to Ward Radio, etc.
@@lukehanson_ jump on Apologia. Correct the record. He's extended an open invitation to you, so go and take it.
@@BrendonKing I have been in talks to discuss with Jeff on his channel. I'm not sure what has prevented it from happening so far, but perhaps it will happen in the future
If Kwaku’s breathing he’s lying about Mormonism.
Speaking with modern Mormons today can be summed up in one word: gaslighting 😵💫
@@sarahd5341 The members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are the most genuine, kind, thoughtful, respectful, honest, selfless people I have ever met.
It amazes me how people are so cruel and condemning of such a collective group of good, God-fearing people. 🤷♀️🤷♀️
I guess that Biblical scripture is true, that the true followers of Christ will have persecution at hate heaped upon them until Christ returns.
@@sarahd5341 lol sadly true haha
Thank you for tackling this Pastor Durban!!!!!!!!!!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I was studying with LDS missionaries in Finland back in 2002, and meanwhile had an opportunity to travel to USA, and there especially to Salt Lake City, where I stayed for a month to see the center of mormonism myself. I remember I was in Salt Lake Temple visitors' center one day and talked with two S-Korean missionaries and said something like this:"One of the most challenging obstacles for me to join your church, is the doctrine that Heavenly Father hasn't always been God, but was once a mortal man like us and has thereafter attained His Godgood over billions of years. Is that really what your church teaches?"
They seemed genuinely surprised and oblivious about this doctrine, as they asked their boss, an elderly gentleman(mission president?), to come over there and they asked him the same question I just had asked them. Right away, he replied:"No, that's not true. We don't teach a doctrine like that.." He seemed very nervous and uncomfortable and I knew he wasn't telling the truth and that it was practically impossible for an LDS elder in that position not to be aware of such a fundamental doctrine in mormonism. I cannot be sure, if it was just him, who just spontaneously wanted to get rid of an uneasy topic, or was he instructed not to make visitors aware of such "deep doctrines" of their church. Back then, I was most taken aback by his dishonesty, maybe even more than that doctrine itself. I certainly had read the King Follet discourse some time before that discussion. Today, I'm a born-again christian, thanks to God!
After going round and round with a Mormon on this subject, it finally came out that she didn’t believe she was being deceptive by saying they don’t “get” their own planet.
She finally admitted that they “create” their own planet. But, clarification did not come from her, it needed to be pulled out.
Still seems deceptive to me!
Yep, you were able to understand what we were trying to say when Jeff seems unable. It is like the difference between 'sky daddy' and 'Father in Heaven' they seem very similar, but those terms are used to convey very different connotations. My issue is not that I'm trying to cover something up, I'm calling people out who clearly are explaining it in a way intended to mock rather than accurately represent my faith.
it's even worse because actually mormons believe god does not create he organizes matter. that's why they believe in polygamy. as a god they cannot create a spirit. that's why they believe god and mary had sex. god couldn't just create a spirit for jesus and a body.
there's a lot of blasphemies in mormonism. a lot of them won't even accept it all even after being raised their whole life with the teaching.
You know what? I am a faithful Latter-day Saint and I am gonna say you jave a point here Jeff. I wouldn't call it a face lift though because Kwaku is not a prophet and doesn't speak for the Church, but it's true that we (the members) tend to hide some of the teachings of the Church to avoid being the subject of ridicule to people who don't understand these sacred things.
Let me also point out that when the guy on Ward Radio said: "Do they think that's half of Come Follow Me?", he is obviously not rejecting the teaching so much as he is saying that that's not the focus of our faith. There is a simple way you can know what is or isn't the focus of our faith. Look at how often the subject is brought up during general conference.
The other thing you need to realize Jeff is that many of these teachings about creating worlds and peopling them are logical conclusions and not scriptural statements. So in this context, it's fair to say: "We don't know for sure". The king follet discourse is not scripture and a prophet on his own does not have the authority to cannonize what he teaches. Joseph Smith knew that and we all understand that. You should too!
Finally, yes exaltation is a part our doctrine. We believe we have the potential to become like God, meaning inheriting all that He has including all His power. That's doctrine.
Now here are a few logical conclusions we make from this:
1- Anyone who inherits the kind of power that God has will bear the title of God.
2- Once we get to bear the title "God", we will likely be doing what God has been doing, namely creating worlds without number, giving birth to spirit children to people them, governing them and helping them become Gods as well.
Yes we make all these assumptions, and we (members and leaders alike) believe they are consistent with our doctrine, but none of it matters without first coming unto Christ through faith in Him, repentance, baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and enduring till the end on this path. That's the focus of our faith.
I was raised Mormon 18 yrs and still live in the typical Mormon neighborhood. They dont read the Bible or know what their Leaders in the past have even said. They only knowthe WOW and that they all will be Gods.. just crazy.
A lot of people who profess to be Christian don't read the Bible either.
@@ramsrnja well that'll suck for them when they learn they weren't Christian to begin with.
@@BrendonKing Right, and the same thing will happen with those who profess to be saints. Remember the story of the ten virgins?
Polygamy - another word for "lust"
Thank you! It's that simple
It was and is a true principle designed to unite many men and women together. But in the early days, they only taught part of the Law, which did lead some to feel entitled and lust after women. The Lord told his prophet Wilford Woodruff that if they continued to live it the way they were, they would be overcome. So they stopped the practice, which was a good thing. That doesn't mean that plural marriage isn't a true principle. My belief is that nothing in the Celestial Kingdom is singular.
Kinda in the neighborhood of adultery
“By their fruits ye shall know them,” the light of Jesus Christ will shine in those who are true disciples, in their countenances, speech, actions & feelings. When people are in tune with the Holy Ghost, they can discern what’s of God. 🙏
There are several comments here that are made by ex-LDS from the same time era I was a member(70s-1990). It was definitely taught and believed that men could become a god, not become "like" God, but actually become a god. Kimball's address of the priesthood holders that they were "gods in embryo" was a huge hit at the time. Chatting with LDS now often leaves me wondering if they seriously don't know their own teachings, or if their teachings have indeed changed that much, or are they just trying to gaslight me?
I think the point that the guys in the video were making is that we don't focus on teaching one verse in 132 that says "they become gods." The official doctrine is what is in the scriptures, but our doctrine we preach day to day is focused on Christ's teachings so that we can become perfected in Him. I think it makes perfect sense that a child can become like the parent or like God. The opposite view is purely illogical.
Gaslight. I was taught the same thing growing up in the LDS church.
As a fifth generation Mormon of polygamous ancestors I lived 65 yrs of my life in the dreadful shadow of having to share my husband with an unlimited number of wives, if not here then for eternity. Now they say that was then, and yet still have multiple wives sealed to them. Abuse and lies.
I would pray about it with an open heart. The policy now is a holdover from the thought that we need to give every woman the chance to be married, but it's just a policy, and I understand that with permission now, a woman can be sealed to an additional husband after the first has died, and we of course seal all the husbands a woman has had to her after they are all dead.
I am sorry you went through this @hanichay1163. I pray you will find healing and wish I can give you a hug. Also pray you will come to know the true living God who would never will that for you.
@@tammy9497 thank you and yes we are Christians now and go to a biblical church. Rejoicing in Christ!
Yay! That is great to hear! @@hanichay1163
I’m a 65 year old Mormon. Polygamy ended in the 1800s so your full of crap
Ripping apart Kwaku part 2! It’s been a few years but it’s nice to see the debate sort of happen again
Jeff is spot on when he says that Mormon apologists like Kwaku,are deliberately lying publicly about the doctrines of exaltation,(men becoming new gods),and about the plurality of gods in existence, as it has been taught officially by LDS prophets and apostles. I guess that “lying for the Lord” is a practice that is still going on strong in that aspect of Mormonism: hide, suppress and pretend like there’s “nothing to see here” when something in the doctrines or in the history become ridiculously embarrassing and impossible to defend.
I find it hard to believe that any temple-recommend carrying LDS member is ignorant of those doctrines, since they are the core belief in Mormonism, and the sole objective of all of the secret oaths individuals and married couples take in LDS temples.
Such oaths require people to abide by the law of the “patriarchal order of the Melchizedek Priesthood,” which is the law Mormon leaders have taught that God, the Father and Heavenly Mother are under themselves, and their obedience to it was what earned them their positions as new gods. Therefore, this new apologetic approach by younger Mormons is both silly as well as disingenuous.
If these are core doctrines, then temple recommends would likely require the holder to affirm a belief in. There is no recommended question asking to confirm belief in becoming a god, heavenly mother, plural marriage, etc.
Please stop wasting so much time and energy in trying to shake the faith of the LDS people, and more time learning and understanding the doctrine of your own church, drawing closer to your Saviour, and developing charity, the pure love of Christ - for without charity, all else fails. Much love!
@@mycatwould Hello, there!
Ex-LDS here, raised in the church.
I think we can agree that the questions that are asked in an interview for a temple recommend are devised exclusively to assess if a member is worthy, according to the church’s leadership, to enter it or not. For example, no one is asked if they believe in the three degrees of glory or not as part of the the interview, although everyone who wants to be approved by their bishop to go in , are only targeting to end up in the celestial kingdom.
Now, could I ask you if you personally, as a LDS, believe that in the exaltation you will be a god yourself? Do you believe that heavenly father is married to heavenly mother and that they are the literal parents of our spirits?
Have you knowledge about what Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other early as well as recent Mormon prophets and apostles taught about this doctrine?
@@FromJosephtoJesusI have a belief (not a sure knowledge, but faith, yes) that through the grace of Jesus Christ I can be saved from physical death, and that if I keep the covenants that I have made with him, which include standing as a witness of him at all times and in all places, keeping his commandments (obedience), living the law of chastity, sacrificing all I have if necessary, being willing to share all I have to help build up God’s kingdom, and stay true and endure to the end of my life on earth, that I might have the POTENTIAL to someday learn to master myself in all ways and become perfected. If I can truly repent so that my sins are washed clean through the atonement of Christ, then my sins that are like scarlet will be made white as wool. It’s hard to conceive with my mortal, limited brain how that works - but I have faith in His word that if I keep my end of the covenants I have made, that He will always keep His. Do I feel like as soon as I am resurrected, and hopefully judged as worthy to gain an inheritance into the Celestial Kingdom, (which again as a natural man I have a lot of work to do) that I’ll be making planets on day 1? Not really. Again, these things have not been revealed, so we only know what we know - and yeah there are going to be a lot of questions and ideas that sprout.
I have never heard anything specific regarding Heavenly Mother (or Mothers), but this doesn’t bother me. One of the first things God set up in the creation of the earth was the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth (plants, animals, and humans), which required male and females. Do I think I have a single Father in the Heavens? No - God sent Eve to be Adam’s helpmeet. I feel that he was following the pattern from eternity where we are meant to be together in unity with our spouse.
So when I get the questions, yes I believe in God, I believe in his son, Jesus Christ; I have a testimony of the atonement; I pay a full tithe; I am honest with my dealings with my fellow men, etc. The hardest one for me is always: so you consider yourself worthy to enter the temple - because I know it is the house of God, I take this very seriously, and it is hard to judge oneself without seeing all the negative things that make me feel unworthy. But I have also come to understand that worthiness is NOT flawlessness. I will never be perfect in this life. I have millennia and eons to get to that level. As long as I am pointed towards Christ and not away from him, then I suppose that I am on his path…the covenant path.
Sorry - no short answers from me :)
@@mycatwould Which Jesus? The created Mormon Jesus or the Jesus of the Bible who created everything that exists?
“Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.””
Genesis 3:4-5
Mormons are agreeing with Satan, it just shows how easy mankind can be led astray and fall to Satan’s lies and deception. To believe you’ll be like God is the exact idea that made the fall of man come to be. To think the same sin is still controlling many people not just Mormons is sad.
Satanism says you're your own God as well
Most of what Satan says is a half truth. Just look at the temptations of Jesus after his 40 day fast.
The you will “not surely die” part was the lie mingled with the truth of them “knowing good from evil,” which did end up happening.
I don’t think it is correct to say that Mormons are agreeing with Satan any more than Christians agree with him.
I do know for a fact that Mormons do not believe that they become their “own Gods.” They believe that Heavenly Father will be the only true highest God.
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is BECOME AS ONE OF US..."
@@ramsrnjaSo you're just going to ignore the passage quoted in the video from Isaiah where GOD clearly states that he is the one and only GOD and that he doesn't know of any other gods? Did you even watch the video? It makes it pretty clear that Mormonism is false.
@@ramsrnja yes one of us, as in now we can distinguish between good and evil… “And the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), knowing [how to distinguish between] good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take from the tree of life as well, and eat [its fruit], and live [in this fallen, sinful condition] forever”-”
Genesis 3:22 AMP
If man is “like God” that doesn’t mean you are 100% like God, you can be like your father with characteristics and personality traits. Firstly we are made in the image of God, so of course we have aspects “like God”, this verse is referring to the fact we now know what Evil truly is.
When Adam and Eve lost their innocence, they, too, understood the nature of evil because of its very real presence within them. They became “like God” in that they now realized what evil was truly like. If your trying to insinuate that Satan was honest, I’m going to listen to Jesus explain Satan has no truth in him.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
I was born , raised, married in the temple and everything on the God makers does and did happen. Remember they change things in the temple because I think people like me questioned it. It scared me and when I would ask about the entire temple experience they would tell me to have faith. They also 100% said we could have our own planet and populate them . They do not believe Jesus is God. Also they change as the world changes. I did and deep dive research and ran when I found all the truths. Thank you God for you word, the scriptures. Jesus is my Lord and Savior❤
We absolutely believe Jesus is God. I've been a member all my life and this is the doctrine. He is God the Son. Sorry, you didn't understand that as a member. I've had numerous spiritual experiences and revelations confirming that the temple ordinances are binding in heaven. The presentation has changed indeed, for the better. Like any family, we are learning as we go, and all is not revealed at once.
It's not just 1 planet. It's actually a whole creation.
This doctrine is all over. It's taught several times a year in Sunday School.
(Former Mormon, attended the temple, etc.)
Truly smith was seed of Satan
How and where was this taught? It is not in any LDS scripture, and I’d be interested to see it in any General Conference address by leaders or where in the Sunday school lesson manual.
One can assume that if we are given the full inheritance to become like God (which undoubtedly would take eons of progression and learning, self-discipline, etc to perfect our natures), then if we can, like God, participate in the creation of worlds…then maybe a world with human life on it??? Again, this is not something that we have received much revelation on. We receive what we are ready for, line upon line; precept upon precept. At some point, mysteries will be well understood. Until then, we must exercise faith in those things we do know and dwell less on those things that are not as important in our progression at this time.
@@mycatwould Do you believe that you will one day become as God is? Do you believe the planets came into being by God's power?
@@mycatwouldI read a book from a morman book store that explained all the whole in just in the first chapter
Ex mormon here.
Mormons 100% are taught they can become Gods and create their own universe. Also, STRONGLY implied that our God was at one point a normal person in another universe that lived a normal good life and became God as we know him. I could have been taught poorly, so don't take what I say understanding this was what was taught in my Church in Idaho.
Nope, you're totally right. Lorenzo Snow taught, "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Man is sinful. Therefore, according to Lorenzo Snow, God was once sinful as well.
I’m not sure it’s taught that God was once a normal person that lived right. I think it’s implied that if anything He would have been like Jesus was to this existence. (Not sure it matters).
But yes that one day we could become creators of our own. What is the extent of that? Don’t know. The second clip of these kids they actually weren’t off at all, she said it. Though they were quite silly the point about not knowing and not wanting guess is accurate.
@@kcb5336 oh you're right, I was never explicitly taught God being a normal person. Just in my situation, its pretty strongly implied - and if you were to ask, basically anyone would say they believe he was a normal human, but no text to my knowledge directly acknowledges that.
@@garysanders6091 I would say it is more assumed than implied. According to their doctrine it isn’t clear.
@@garysanders6091 That's very interesting, and just goes to show how inconsistent the LDS church is, becuase I was taught that God absolutely WAS a regular dude in his mortal life. Either way it's a lie, it's just interesting to see the different flavors the lie takes on when taught by different people.
I wish these “new” Mormons would at least acknowledge and say, “yes we were wrong but now we …” etc. And not just claim that we’re misrepresenting them.
Elder Uchdorf said it in conference. Mistakes were made in the past. So what. How many prophets and Israelites in the Bible made mistakes? All of them.
@@ramsrnjaYour prophets are false
@@ramsrnja Thank you for your response.
Question, do you as a Mormon reject Joseph Smith?
@@davidhiramreyes6490 No I very much believe he was a prophet of God, called and chosen to establish Christ's true church in the last days. And not only the church, but to lay the foundation of Zion and the Kingdom of God upon the earth. All the laws of God has to be revealed through him in, despite the fact the people were nor ready to receive and live Celestial law.
@@ramsrnja So even if he made multiple errors you’d believe in him as bringing the true church? (Honest question. thank you for responding.)
A common defense is "not enough modern leaders teach this, it isn't doctrine", or "ongoing revelation". Both, I believe, are mechanisms to circumvent troubling theology they've painted themselves into a corner with. It makes establishing a baseline of Mormon doctrine to engage with them akin to catching smoke with your bare hands.
Or nailing jello to the wall…
@@sarahd5341 as a former Mormon, your apt analogy hits too close for comfort 😂
@@sarahd5341😅 I miss the 80’s Church…so much more Jell-O
it seems to the outsider mormonism is changing. it seems to be changing glacially slow, but it does seem to be changing. i say that because they have gospel topic essays that are officially published online.
gospel topic essays comes right out and admits to things that could get you excommunicated in 1960.
for example the gold plates are being replaced with the rock in a hat. so probably what you have, is some members "got the new memo" some members never "got the new memo" and some members believe both versions at the same time.
how can that be? how can you believe 2 different things at the same time? they don't call it a cult for nothing.
My husband and I are ex-Mormons, and our favorite dis when we teasingly argue is, "You sound like a Mormon apologist." 🤣
Edit to Add: For what it's worth, I graduated from high school in 2014 and I was taught the "you will be gods" thing in seminary. So this change is extremely new. I'm both sad and embarrassed to see how many Mormons have memory-holed the doctrine. Like...? At least be bold and honest about your own religion.
I spoke to some mormon missionaries in vista ca and they completely denied that they believe they will become gods
Also grew up Mormon, believing I'd become a "god" right through till 2018 before I was saved. Even more recent again. I was 19 at the time.
The doctrine is not that all members will become a god. The scripture says that only those who keep all their covenants and overcome through Christ, which means becoming perfected and sanctified, become gods, which means we are sons and daughters of God. I don't see why this is so absurd, when God wants us to call him Father, and every child grows up to be like his/her parents.
The church is a family, and every family goes through a learning curve. There are a lot of truths that were revealed to the saints in the early days that they experimented living. I have a testimony that plural marriage is a true principle, but monogamy is God's standard for this earth. Plural marriage will go both ways. We forget that the early saints were all converts from Protestantism, which had similar traditions about women and blacks. They justified slavery because of what is written in the Bible.
@@ramsrnja It's absurd because God is the FIRST and the LAST, and there are NONE like Him. People who genuinely believe that they can be gods like YHWH are overestimating their own holiness and underestimating the holiness of God to a gross level. Please, I beg of you, read the Holy Bible like a child, without your preconceived notions. You have been lied to, but you don't have to stay stuck in that lie.
I was an adult Mormon convert for a time in the 2010s. When I asked about the planet thing I was told it was a higher doctrine and I’d learn about it after I went to the temple.
Sounds like Scientology. ''When you get to level three, then you can learn about the aliens...''.
@@franceshaypenny8481 At level 4 you learn the aliens they're Worshipping are Demons and Lucifer
That’s interesting that they started to change the narrative in 2010s (I was already inactive then) but I learnt about the planets during normal Sunday school - I never went through the temple so evidently they used to be a lot more open about it.
Spoiler alert: we learn about the creation of earth only. Nothing about creating our own planets.
@@mycatwouldmaybe now you do. It was very different 20 years ago
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Christ taught that "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
Jeff are you calling me a liar? I thought we were friends even brothers, but
didn't Jesus say:
"If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not"
Jeff I'm not offended because you have called me a liar, and I'd hope that we could still exchange kind words. Christ continues in verse 47,
"He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."
I would suggest that first we as men try to hear the words of God, and not do as Paul said that we as men would do to God "Change the truth of God into a Lie." There are a few other verses in Romans that I would direct you, and the curious mind to, as I know it is one of your favorite scriptures. See Romans 8. I would typically reference Romans 8:17, but I don't think that will convince you today, that we are children, heirs and joint heirs with Christ. Instead I will reference Romans 8 1-2,
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." and also in verse 6,
"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."
Jeff to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Life and peace.
"Jeff, Jeff, Why persecutest thou me? And he said, "Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Great video; the unnecessary background music detracts from it and makes it harder for people with hearing difficulties to understand what’s being said.
My parents are Mormon and when we have family dinner and they pray to their "God" I do not participate
This is why 'Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother', is arguably the most difficult commandment. Do keep trying to save them though friend - it means everything. God Bless you.
its lucifer for them
I’m not necessarily a Christian but I’m still learning and I watch Mike Winger’s videos sometimes… he is extremely kind. It’s really rude for them to say “fake pastor.” Mormon doctrine has changed extensively over time.
I’m encouraged that you’re watching this channel if you’re not necessarily a Christian I hope you’ll watch other things on here and I hope and pray that you will be saved. ❤
I’m so glad you’re watching with an open mind. It sounds like the Holy Spirit is drawing you. I was raised by atheists and came to Christ at 31 years old. I can now look back and see how God called me and pursued me on an intellectual, emotional and spiritual level. I pray that you will continue to seek truth because it will lead you to Jesus. ❤
Yes Pastor Winger is a lovely man and a very good teacher.
@@RustyShackelford261 How can I be so absolutely sure of Christ's trueness, and God's Existence, so that I could drastically devote my life to him? I've watched the debates, and it appears the athiests don't win, but for some reason I just can't make up my mind over God's Existence.
@@franceshaypenny8481 Pastor Winger is one of the best YT Christian theologians & pastors I have watched. His message is very insightful. The fact that they resort to insults and ridicule tells me how valid they and their faith are.
Thank you for this video and helping how false the Mormon teachings are from a ex Mormon of 67 years and finding out it’s all lies and having my name removed at 84 years old I feel so Bblessed to be ex Mormon 🙏🏻
God bless you!
Current LDS here. We talk past each other because in our belief… the word God represents both an entity… an order of beings…. And also the individual beings within that order… who as individual Gods….each represent the order of God. So there is one God, the entity or order, and has been for all eternity….. but the individual Gods within that order have not always themselves been God. Just trying to explain IMO why this doctrine is often misunderstood.
The infinite regression of gods is not logically possible and one of many reasons Latter day Saints are ridiculed.
So it seems that Jeremiah in Chapter 23 prophesied about Jeff Durbin.
"Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord. For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord.
Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord. I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.
How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord."
GOD BLESS YOU JEFF!!!
Thank you for your ministry Apologia church! I hope not only our Mormon friends & neighbors see this video, but also the countless former Mormons who have swapped the worldview of Mormonism for that of Agnosticism/Atheism. As a former mormon myself (and born again believer in the Lord now), I see many former Mormons hang on to one last lie that the Mormon church indoctrinated them with, that goes essentially like this: "If we're not the true church, there is no true church/religion".
The Mormon church was founded on teachings that absolutely run contrary to the Biblical faith. So often I see former Mormons who have "deconstructed" (or whatever word you want to use) from Mormonism, think that Mormonism was sort of the pinnacle of the Christian faith or the best it had to offer because of it's Priesthood claims, and if it's not true, well then Christianity as a whole is just a sham. The truth is, Mormonism isn't 'Christian' in any meaningful sense of the word. It's a 'nominal Christianity', that is, 'in name only'.
The majority of Mormons/Former Mormons have never heard the true, Biblical Gospel. Joseph Smith poured entirely different meanings into the Christian lexicon and created a tremendous language barrier between Christians and Mormons. We both use words like God, Grace, Jesus, Eternal Life, and mean completely different things. Anybody who has left the Mormon church and is well aware of the deceptive practices within, should challenge themselves to learn how Joseph Smith appropriated the Biblical narrative to build his cult.
The reality is, no matter how much evidence and proof we give those who are still bogged down in Mormonism, they are willingly choosing to ignore the evidence, willfully choosing to not use the God given ability to common sense, and unable to spiritually discern the truth, because for most of them, this "feeling" (elevation emotion) of the Holy Spirit (burning in the bosom that every walk of faith gets) is what they hang on to, not realizing or understanding, feelings can be deceptive, but the pure word of God he has given us in the Scriptures (Bible) can be fully trusted.
Satan has masterpiece together his demon doctrine of becoming a God, and using the best deceptions and lies he has when he created each man made religion.
@@brotherinchrist72 Oh amen, I agree. Romans 1 is clear that all men know God by way of natural revelation and suppress that truth in unrighteousness. While former Mormons have been deceived into thinking that Mormonism was Christianity, absolutely it's not a problem of evidence. It's a problem of sin. Turning from one idol, to another. And yes, Mormons trusting in "sola experientia" versus "sola scriptura" is a big part of that.
Yes, behind Mormonism and every other system of man-made religion is the same culprit.
@@brotherinchrist72God must open their eyes, but to the believer it is expected to spread the gospel to any who might hear.
I just learned about this the other day- it’s a marketing strategy called double speak that is done very deliberately by con artists - which Joseph Smith was one.
Biblical Christians ignore much of the Bible. The doctrine found in the Church of Jesus Christ matches up more with what the Bible says than what "Biblical Christians" say it means. It is a modern consensus doctrine, is really all it is. And I see evangelicals disagreeing with each other all the time!
Pastor Steven Anderson points out the deceptiveness of Mormons.
Thank you for your ministry Apologia.
Their beliefs are so strange and yet they try to claim that when we point out said strange beliefs, that we’re allegedly lying. It’s quite a sad tactic to save face. I pray they see this response and come to know the true Christ. 🙏🏽
Latter Day Saint here. I am very much alive in Christ and know he lives! I think there is much more in common about our belief between you and I then you know 😊
@@dallinpolson3218 You believe in a false God and a false Jesus and therefore a false Gospel. We are not the same.
@@dallinpolson3218 As pastor Jeff often says himself, we do appreciate your guys’ passion for your faith. But I’m sorry, you cannot say you’re alive in Christ when you deny his deity. We are saved because of who Christ is; both God and man. To truly be alive in Him, walking with the Spirit, you must believe that He is God in the flesh who dwelt among us. I pray that you come to know the true Christ, as scripture teaches us. 🙏🏽
@@dallinpolson3218 Former Mormon here. You're denying Joseph Smith's first vision when you say we're more alike than we are different. "I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me." Are we an abomination or are we alike? Because you can't have it both ways.
@@KREG875Actually we believe Christ is deity. He is God. He is ONE with the Father and Holy Ghost, and together, they are God.
It’s sad because Joseph Smith’s words has and still is leading many to the lake to meet him 🔥🥵🔥
I have a friend on the West Coast who is a Mormon, his father is a Bishop. We have had a few really good discussions, these are helpfule.
I left because a loving God would never stop anyone from entering his Temples.
The priesthood and temple restrictions were racist.
Love Apologea. Love Pastor Durbin. Love that sexy background music!
Seriously, thank you for this. I was so mad on Pastor Wingers' behalf when I saw their scoffing attitudes. Zero respect.
Guys, I'm coming out and leaving Mormonism
Thanks for your help and ministry. I wipl be baptized into a traditional Christian church in a few weeks.
Love this teaching!! I’m in school at liberty university and I am learning about all religions right now so this really helps!! Going after a degree in apologetics!❤
If you are actually trying to learn about all religions, including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I would suggest learning from the Church’s website, actual LDS missionaries, or local members - you may be surprised to find some in your university classes even. If I wanted to learn about Christ, I wouldn’t ask his enemies…just saying.
@@mycatwould I'm curious so please answer my question.
1 John Chapter 4 verse 1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Did Joseph Smith try Moroni to see if it was from GOD like the scriptures says to do?
@@war13death
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Mormonism is refuted on that one verse before it gets off the ground. This is precisely what Joe claims. Muhammad tried it too.
@@rickdavis2235 You are 100% correct. I asked the question so that when they admit that Joseph Smith did NOT try the spirit they would have no choice but to admit that he is a false prophet as mentioned in the passage. In their book of Nephi it claims that the scriptures would be corrupted and all other religions (besides Mormonism) are of the devil. Due to the overwhelming number of manuscripts we know that the scriptures have not been corrupted and what the Bible says today is what it always said. This also proves Joseph Smith is a false prophet. I try to get them to see the truth so that they may embrace true Christianity and avoid eternal death.
@@war13death There are plenty of verses that refute Mormonism like Deut. 13:1-2 or Deut. 18:20-22.
“I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’”
Isaiah 14:14 NKJV
I’m in a debate group with some young Mormons. I was trying to pin one down on it and he said that becoming like God and becoming a god are “basically the same thing”. I also think your own planet is a semantics dodge as they can create worlds not just one planet etc.
Creating planets etc. is probably the coolest idea they have. Not sure why they want to cover it up besides to seem more like Christians.
Equally weird that they are attacked for it when science has now confirms the the universe is expanding and the rate at which its expanding is accelerating. Do Protestants have an explanation for why that is happening?
They believe they will be God's and goddesses..... Which means they are in fact pagan and do in fact have a pantheon. Moreover they teach we have a heavenly mother we are not allowed to talk to.
Why do folks like apologia focus on this stuff. Latter Day Saints don’t spend but 0.00005% of their time focusing and teaching about this stiff
Maybe that's the problem.
@@andreatimmers1720 the problem is that apologia seeks to destroy true faith in Christ believing people?
Because Kwaku is dishonest and should be exposed. But I agree there are a lot of more interesting issues in Mormonism they could focus on
@@dallinpolson3218 You have nothing to worry about if your belief is solid. If it is not your church will direct you to stay away from any information that questions it
Because they are following a Cult
I love how the missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints invite others to Christ and share the good news of Christ gospel.
I’m so thankful they are not schooled and professionally trained to point the finger of scorn, that they don’t judge the hearts of those they teach and dont tell their investigators they’re going to burn in hell because their Jesus can’t save them.
I just love the powerful light and truth those young missionaries carry with them.
By their fruits ye shall know them. ☀️❤️
Where did Jesus Christ charge people 10% of their income?
@@Elizabeth-rk3do
Malachi 3:10
“Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”
It’s a Biblical principle.
My husband and I lived it as starving students. We paid a 10% tithe before we paid rent or bought groceries.
We saw so many miracles and blessings that we made up a family motto
“We can’t afford not to pay our tithing.”
The Lord truly does pour out blessings beyond our ability to receive them when we trust Him and live His teachings.
We are now living as upper class citizens. And we not only STILL joyfully pay 10% tithes, but we also give
Into other charities.
We STILL see miracles and blessings by paying our tithing.
We love this Biblical principle.
It’s not for everyone, but we LOVE it and are so grateful for it!
An actual way to prove the Lord and see His Almighty Hand stretch out in our lives!
❤️☀️
@@Elizabeth-rk3do
Malachi 3:10
“Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”
It’s an amazing Biblical principle.
We lived it as poor students. We paid tithing before we paid rent or bought groceries. We saw miracles and blessings pour into our lives.
We are now in the upper class and we STILL pay our tithing. We also give to other charities.
And we STILL see incredible miracles and blessings, so much so that we don’t have room to receive them all.
What a gift, to test the Lord and to prove His kindness in this way.
He has given us a way to prove Him and not does He keep His Almighty promises.
I realize this Biblical principle is not for everyone, but how we love it! Our family motto “we can’t afford not to pay our tithing!”
It’s glorious! ☀️❤️
@@Elizabeth-rk3do
Malachi 3:10
@@Icanonlyimagn7891
It's great that you tithe. I do as well.
Where did Jesus Christ require 10% of anyone's income?
Kwaku got a degree in gaslighting
It's called levels of light and knowledge within Mormonism
I do believe I recall Kwaku, or however you spell his name, on a video once talking about how yeah you do get your own planet and stuff. Now acting like it is all nonsense that they ever believed it? give me a break. I think it was when there was that "Three Mormons" show he was on or something. I feel like almost every time I see that guy show up he is lying about something. I dunno I could be mistaken :/
EDIT: Oh I should have just kept watching the video, because Jeff shows exactly that one I was thinking about.
If Christianity had “face lifts” I would not be Christian. Jesus was the OG of “I said what I said” 👏😎
Is it possible for you folks to drop the droning music that is in the background of these videos? It gets on my nerves; you don't need it.
The majority of people like background music
@@aronmoralez9415, why? There’s no point to it. It’s just a drone, for the most part.
Thank you for the education…. As a Christian in Utah I cannot wait! If God wills it, I’m ready!
Mormons are the more kind, easy going version of Muslims.
Both cults were started in the same way, though, and for someeeee reason they've garnered some of the most devout followers I've ever witnessed.
I love their steam to work for the Lord, but i pray the come to know the True God of Israel 🙏
It's a theology that appeals to the human ego. It is going to be such a surprise for them when they get slapped down.
The Romans and Jews thought Jesus and the apostles were leading a cult, too. And what were the Jews accusing them of? Blasphemy. The same thing the Saints are accused of today.
I’ll admit it pastor Jeff. The God of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is just more powerful than previous Christians had supposed. Thank God for Joseph Smith- for pulling back the curtain from our eyes.
You sound deceiving! You have been brainwashed….
You should learn how to test a prophet to see if he is true. deuteronomy 13 and 18-21 will help you understand that if a prophet has a false prophesy, they are a flase prophet. Now, D&C 114 says that David W. Patten was supposed to serve a mission the next spring. Guess what? David W patten DIED October 25, 1838.
Am I supposed to believe that the LORD made a mistake in giving Joseph a false prophesy?
@@blake9908 he did serve a mission that spring… on the other side of the veil 😊
Give this video a thumbs up!!!! It helps the algorithm and people seeing his messages!!! It’s such a simple thing!!! 👍👍👍👍
Jeff, this is a great video, but what's with the annoying music bed? Do you want me to listen to you, or it?
Seems like Joseph Smith was the first Science Fiction author.
Oh, please don't insult Science Fiction. Johannes Kepler's Somnium, written in 1608, is so much better.
Ah I've been wanting to see some of these quotes in writing. thank you sir. And thank you for the sources
A few years ago, I remember a missionary testifying during a testimony meeting at church. She said, "I'm thankful I am amongst God's and Goddesses."
She was speaking to her audience (primarily members) who believe we are sons and daughters of a loving Heavenly Father…so as a king’s children are princes and princesses with potential to become kings and queens - she was just saying (in a different way) that she was among the children of God, which we all are everywhere we meet another living soul.
@@mycatwould sounds like you're trying to explain away another member.
@@BrendonKingmy bad…you’re right, I should have said “to me it sounds like…”
Thanks for the censoring Brendon.
@@mycatwould Hey, only in your church do you do everything in your power to discredit those who are supposedly called to spread the gospel.
@@BrendonKingexcuse me? First: it’s not my church
Second: how am I doing everything in my power to discredit LDS missionaries? Or other leaders?
Also, from some of your other comments, it sounds like you were LDS at one point. What’s your story?
Great video. Thanks for responding to these guys. I'm seeing their stuff pop up quite a bit. Seems like Ward Radio's approach to proselytizing is to mock evangelicals. One small critique... The music bed isn't necessary. 😁
Again Jeff Durbin has shown himself to create strawmen arguments galore. I watched the Ward Radio episode when it came out. Of course Jeff likes to Cherry pick and not get to the heart of the matter. Watch the whole Ward Radio episode for yourself. The actual point was this is a common anti Mormon trope that is mentioned constantly. There point was point out where it says we will “get our own planet” in our canonized scripture. Sorry it is not there. It is a favorite trope of people like Apologia Jeff. The LDS doctrine of Exaltation could include that possibly but that was not revealed. The common trope is used to push their agenda of make LDS look bad or paint them in a negative light. Back to Durbin I have seen him do this repeatedly. Apparently Jeff has an audience that holds on to his every word. Check the ward radio episode this comes from and you will see your man omits many things to make his point that is worse than presenting a straw man.
Leaders in the LDS church taught that men would get their own planet.
Joseph Smith said that people lived on Jupiter.
Brigham Young taught that people lived on Jupiter and the sun. Maybe he meant that they lived on the sun at night.
🤔
(There's a reason the state of Utah has the highest rates of mental illness and suicide. Such a sad story. 😢)
Joseph Smith had 50 men anoint him king of the earth during the Millennium, which they thought would soon take place. Joseph Smith was killed six weeks later.
God will not be mocked.
Nobody can make it through the whole ward Radio program they are so obnoxious. RFM just destroyed them in a debate. Just lil kids trying to face a man. One man vs 3 fools
These concerned Christians are concerned whenever someone in the church says something that does not conform to what concerned Christians are teaching about beliefs of the church. From the time of Joseph Smith there were members of other churches telling lies about the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Wow you still fighting English in an attempt to sound smart I see. I find it funny youre making this comment in reference ot someone who has been caught lying as much as Kwaku has.
How do you justify Joseph Smith actively practicing divination?
@@Wilvekio69 He doesnt even watch the videos he comments on like most LDS trolls
Well done Jeff!
It's so very sad how so many lost souls will see hell bc of Joseph smith
"Mormonism is in flux in our day. Many young Mormons are pursuing a "face-lift" minimizing or outright denying core and accepted teachings from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" - don't worry, christianity went through this over the last 2000 years many times. There have been quite a few "facelifts" in your religion
I know there were bigger lies in that video, but it really bothered me that they tried to slander Mike Winger, it's so petty, it shows they have zero integrity
So it's okay for Mike Winger to slander the church, but not okay for someone to correct what he says? Double standard. Mike Winger said many things that were simply false.
@@ramsrnja can you point out what he said that was false?
@@graceupongrace2639 well, just starting watching part one again. First, Winger suggests that the Book of Mormon was written because there was an obsession at the time with Native Americans. This is not why the Book of Mormon came about. There is no evidence to support this suggestion. Next he says the people became darker throughout the BofM, and then Winger calls Joseph a racist. This is false as well, as the Book of Mormon describes the people becoming lighter skinned as well and they intermarried. We see that many times in the Book of Mormon, the darker Lamanites are more righteous than the lighter Nephites, and in fact they end up totally destroying the lighter Nephites because of their wickedness which exceeded the Lamanites. You'd think if Joseph was a racist he would have not included something like that. When Joseph ran for President he took an anti-slavery stance, and the first black man to receive the priesthood was approved by Joseph. To say he was any more racist than any man or woman of that day is intentionally deceitful. This is just in the first 30 seconds of listening to Winger. Perhaps in the morning I will keep going!
@@ramsrnja ) you don't believe that's how the book of Mormon came to be. I would encourage to look at Mormon history from a non-mormon . Its hard to hear but he is right.
2) .....man, have you read the book of Mormon? The Lamenites get darker as they get more evil, and their clothes start to resemble so indigenous people of America....because one of Joseph Smith's beliefs when he wrote the BoM was the some Jews turned into native Americana, like in View of the Hebrews. So, you can make a case that Joseph Smith wasn't THAT racist, but saying they got dark skin as a result of a curse is a racist viewpoint, and then there was Brigham Young, and following prophets that it's much harder to make excuses for. The Mormon cooperation fought against desegregation. Again, you might not LIKE the things that Mike Winger said, but he's saying them with integrity. Right now you're suppressing the truth in unrighteousness. I encourage you to repent and turn away from a blasphemous organization and call out to God for mercy.
@@graceupongrace2639 Winger says the plates Joseph received would have had to weigh 200 lbs. This is not true. The accounts say they weighed between 40-60 lbs, and no where do we claim that the plates were made of pure gold, which we assume is how Winger is making this claim. Winger says that the Church claims that the events in the Book of Mormon happened on the hill Cumorah in New York. This is not true, as the church has never claimed to know exactly where the events took place in North or South America. There are members who speculate of course, but there is not an official stance from apostles. Winger says that there were never horses or steel in America at the time the BofM took place, but there is evidence that there were horses and likely some form of steel as well. Winger says that we can trust the witnesses of Jesus's resurrection because they were willing to die for their belief, but implies that the early saints were not willing to do the same. He conveniently forgets that both Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum, along with many other early saints died for their testimonies of the truth. Winger claims that Oliver Cowdery denied the Book of Mormon, but that isn't true, because Oliver came back to the church and confirmed his testimony of the divinity of the Book of Mormon. Winger says that all eight witnesses of the BofM left the church, but that isn't true
Without lies, Mormonism dies.
I lived in Utah for 9 month's as an aircraft mechanic.. From my experience with Mormons (I am not a mormon), they want nothing to do with you if you're not a mormon.. I had a co-worker ask me if I was a part of their church and I said NO! He walked away.. LOL
That is quite an assumption to draw from one interaction. Most members are very friendly to people of all faiths.
@@ramsrnja that is quite an assumption as well.
@@BrendonKing That is my observation and I believe it to be true. I've been a member for 46 years and, and members in my experience are friendly with non-members, and don't shy away unless there are issues with bad language or other behaviors they don't want to participate in. That doesn't mean every member is friendly. A lot like myself are simply introverted or shy.
@@ramsrnja I had many interactions like that.. Just listed one
@@ryanmoeller3308 Well, how much did you reach out to them?
Their theology of eternal progression makes sense, a lot better than hoping I selected the right Christian religion and spending forever telling God how great he is. What is heaven if not progress? What is Heaven to everyone else? I guess we would just be in bliss? Do we have our families?
They claim to be orthodox Christians but they aren’t even orthodox Mormons…excuse me, “Latter Day Saints.”
If Jeff really understood Mormon doctrine, I believe he would be much more genuine about their beliefs. Like when he talks about God, there is a lot of conflation with what God means in certain contexts.
It is said by the Mormon prophets that they may become like God, which involves the ability of creation. If anything, they would get their own universe, not just a planet. That’s not giving their ideas enough credit.
Also, why would the idea that God wants everyone to be like Him be so horrible and evil? If that is actually God’s desire, how could that be an evil desire?
Well let's think about what Lucifer . He got the boot for what the entire church is built on.
@@andreatimmers1720 I don’t understand your comment. Mormons say he got the boot for wanting to take God’s glory by taking away the agency of man. That is very different than God wanting His children to be glorious like He is.
Read John 1. Yes we are God's adopted children if we accept Jesus Christ. The Alpha and Omega does not need or want other gods. It's utter Blasphemy
@@andreatimmers1720 Show me where in the Bible it says that God doesn’t want to bless His children with His glory. John 1 says nothing of it. Romans 8 talks of man receiving His glory up to and including becoming joint heirs with Christ. If Christ is God, then what else could it mean? It says He will reveal the glory in us. It says that Christ will be firstborn among many brethren. Paul’s words strongly hinting at our potential to become God-like.
@@Jamo12 Believe whatever you want. I am debating my Muslim neighbor he is more entertaining. Actually they have some similar beliefs as LDS. I am sure you will be a terrific God.
Lot of strawing manning, innuendos, and outright mischaracterization about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Question 1: What do you think it means in Romans 8:14 that states: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."?
It is promised in Romans 8:17: "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together" If God is our Father, then why, as His sons and daughters, should we not obtain the same privileges and glory He has? Did God mean that promise, or not? Isn't that what "heirs" mean, to obtain all that our father has?
In the parable of the prodigal son, the faithful son, thought chastise for not welcoming his wayward brother back home, was specifically told that all his earthy father had would become his. That is not an accident that Christ stated that, to show our status as His children, and what we could obtain. Me becoming a father with a wife and children does not take away the ascendant position, r
reverence or respect to my earthy father. Nor does us, as God's children, supplant or share the same status of God by being giving the same opportunity to enjoy what He does.
The afterlife in heaven is a subject that no other Christian faith has explained, other than to assume we as God's children will remain in a frozen stasis playing harps and singing in a choir. Christ said there would be many mansions, and Paul describe the degrees of glory differing from each other as the sun, moon, and stars.
"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
Right there the scripture avows that there are gods in number, but still God the Father is the supreme, and the only one whom we worship. We are His children through Christ, not puppets or pets, but children who will follow their Father's footsteps and do the same things He has done. Christ himself said that to his disciples "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12 Why should any Christian believe God would lie, and not give all that He has to them that love and obey Him?
In regards of polygamy, explain why God allowed Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses, to have multiple lives. Did they sin, to begat the house of Israel? Are the twelves tribes all illegitimate offspring? Mary and Joseph are descendants from them. God commands and revokes. He didn't just turn a blind eye if what those patriarchs did was sin, and humor them.
I noticed none of these scriptures or the concept of being joint heirs, as sons and daughters of God, were addressed at all,other than repeating the "Having your own world" mantra over and over. Either those scriptures and references mean what they say, or else you are choosing to pass over them,and downgrade them as merely colorful descriptions that have no real meaning.
Love this. Well said! Very clearly biblical.
Your counterfeit interpretations aren't what the Bible is saying at all : it's obviously you don't know Christian theology from the Early church of the Authentic Apostles.
YHWH created the other Elohim (gods ) they aren't Jesus brothers and sisters as you think you R .
haSatan is the adversary: not an actual person in the Old Testament so its not Jesus brother either!
Jesus the visible YHWH ( second person of the trinity ( God) became a man in his incarnation by setting aside some of his divine attributes that makes him YHWH) created men and women don't become gods and your fake Celestial kingdom members don't get planets either as that's just a way to get you to buy your way in with the 10% monthly gym fee.
@@mycatwould LOL 😆 your ignorance is overwhelming as you don't even believe the Bible is translated correctly!
Articles of Faith #8.
U all Trying to proof text from it is hilarious ignorance!
@@davidjanbaz7728 Your rebuttal is based on the same human understanding that had splintered Christianity for centuries. The Gospel of Christ and the Bible have been the subject of debate no less than than bitter rivalry between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Every well meaning person who picks up a Bible becomes their own authority of it, yet all ignore the crucial elements of having the authority by the laying on of hands, baptism, the gift of the Holy ghost, in a established church by Christ Himself with a prophet and 12 apostles, all laid out in the NT, especially in Acts. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Say Saints has all these components that Christ instituted and were meant to feed his flock. Billy Graham, Frank Turek, and Mr Durbin are good, well meaning men, but they do not have the authority or position the same as a prophet of God, and to their credit they don't claim to be a prophet, which reveals the weakness of their position. Their evangelical movements depend on their own knowledge and speaking charisma, and I have yet to hear any of them say they have the specific authority to receive revelation and speak in God's name as His representative. Picking up a Bible alone or going to a theological school is not sufficient. Either one is directly called to be God's prophet and spokesperson, as established throughout the Bible, or else they are just well-meaning people who have mortal opinions of what they think God said. Read 2 Peter 1:20-21. It states that no scripture is of private interpretation, but by prophecy through the Holy Ghost, making that individual the called prophet and called spokesman on earth for God. Without a designated prophet, we all are mere humans with mental limitations and bias arguing endlessly over what we think God said and meant, with the only common agreement that Jesus was the Christ, and we are dependent upon his atonement and resurrection to save us. Christ meant his followers to be one, yet here we are, some who follow Turek, others Durbin, and many others, yet they are all in their own separate congregations, not united, with no designated head like Peter or Paul. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the only Church that claims to be established as the original Church that Christ organized when He called Peter and the twelve apostles, restored by calling Joseph Smith by direct divine visitation and ongoing revelation. One is free to disagree about Joseph Smith and the present day Church, but theologically one cannot ignore the pattern God established in the Bible of having a designated prophet with the power and authority to speak in His name, nor the need for a organized Church made not by man but directed by God just like the early church by Christ.
I am Christian catholic I have family that is Mormon and they have tried to speak to us about their faith but, we always say we don’t want to speak about that we will believe in Christ of the Bible not a man made church. They donnot teach the gospel.
I went to BYU Provo from 2010-2012. My geology professor started one lecture with a lighthearted, "You guys need to learn this for when you're creating your own planet!" They were still teaching this stuff barely 10 years ago. Spirit children to populate your own world was 100% accepted back then. These young kids are woefully mislead and blinded. There is anger under the laughter. The cowardly older generation who lie about their cult's history is equally to blame. Learning real church history was traumatic for me, I transferred to another college and became an atheist for years until Jesus mercifully saved me. Mormonism isn't harmless. Pretending it's just another denomination isn't kind. You might avoid an awkward conversation but you pass the debt on to the children. They're the ones who pay.
Discernment isnt about knowing right and wrong. Its about knowing right from almost right. I think that's something Spurgeon said. Praise God for our truth that is never changing. How confusing to be in a religion that needs to stick with the times. Thanks Pastor.
Yes, they are indeed being very deceptive, or publicly ignorant.
So if the scripture says "In the beginning the word was with God" (Wouldn't that mean there was a beginning)? Just curious
One of my all time favorites is their teaching that if you are a Person of Color, the stronger your Faith gets the Whiter you will become. Yep.
What people may not know about Adams role in bringing us mortality is that the rest of the text basically says thank you to Adam for listening to eve, because if Adam hadn’t listened to eve we’d still be stuck in the preexistence and we wouldn’t be able to progress to become gods ourselves. He says adam did his part and he’s glad adam did because he’s glad for mortality, but never once did he lament for the rebellion against a perfect Creator, nor does he mention that it was ultimately the serpents voice, not just eve. Honestly the lack of the fear of the Lord in lds doctrine is astounding.
It's true. God set up Adam and Eve to transgress, because as God's children that is the only way an innocent child learns, is by choosing and living with the consequences. The plan had to include opposition or choices, and a Savior. God has all foreknowledge so he knew they would fall before they did. And the fact that they naked and knew not shows they were not accountable as adults but were innocent as children. That's why it was a transgression and not a sin.
I'm LDS... as a church we totally believe we're going to become like God and procreate in the afterlife.
Yes I figured and they say that and also Mormons really do have such a god complex because they literally believe that they are righteous enough and that they will become gods one day. That’s what The Devil did because he wanted to become like god and then he got kicked out of heaven for it.
Becoming like God doesn't mean you become a god.
BTW, only pagan gods are married. The true and living God is not married. God doesn't need, want or have sex.
There will be no procreation in heaven. Believers will be as the angels.
Which is not taught in the Holy Bible…. The 1st lie
Great upload Jeff.
... was just wandering if we could unpack the issue of whether lying and deception is even relevant if it's coming from those who are not yet born-again? In this case (Mormons).
Are we perhaps subconsciously expecting a Biblical standard of morality to naturally be practiced by those who are not yet transformed?
Great question
The sad part is these young LDS members don’t even know the doctrine and teachings of their own Church. I’m a ex-Mormon went to priesthood camp, attended seminary blessed and pass the sacrament in as part of the A. priesthood. Everything Jeff talks about can be found in the Celestial marriage study manual you receive before being sealed at least they used to.
The Restored Gospel rules rules rules!!!!
Scratch those itchin ears.
Imagine any religion believing another is more unreasonable
Go on their show
@@user-oy4hj8sm8j ok i want him eu go in their show
Had Mormon missionaries sit in on a Wednesday service and join the discussion afterwards. Very bold.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
I am 33 and in the process of leaving mormonism. I was taught all the things they are mocking. It's the whole point and premise of the work done in mormon temples - to become exalted Gods and Goddesses, becoming and doing all that I was taught to believe God and Jesus do. It's wrong, it's idol worship and not the worship of the one true God, and I'm tired of the gaslighting and lies from those who taught this to me.
Your information and teaching are so important and valuable. Please ditch the lounge background elevator music, it diminishes and distracts from your truth!
Can you provide a link to where the LDS church officially says that you no longer become God, or have your planet?