This felt really conflicting to me. The overall tone was very down on the game to be rating it 4 and 5 IMO. I don’t know what to think after watching this, but still appreciate you all!
Keep in mind, talking about the things we want to see improved is very different than not liking a game, I'm not sure what aspect of this was "down", Start, middle and end I'm smiling and clearly enjoying myself.
@@BoardGameCo I think a lot of the criticisms sound like major concerns. Besides the I was disappointed thing, hearing that monsters are not impactful (though also that they are?), two of the victory conditions are unachievable, nothing feels epic, all the drakkar stuff, it is like, yikes, wow. Coupled with what AR has said about all the playtests having great feedback and iirc that the game (these prototypes) were so far along they were talking about delaying the campaign and having a shorter development time/faster delivery time... I mean it sounded like the game was pretty much dev done, while your great and well presented thoughts contradict my (possibly unfounded) expectations.
Just want to say that I love these crossover reviews. When you guys are together, it really feels like a group of friends playing/talking about games and just having a good time. It's the exact vibe I look for in this space 😊
Hi everyone... it seems as if this is a common question here. This is my third time seeing it and I'm not even halfway through the comments. No worries. I hope to put out a video on Quackalope one of these weeks on my top area control games because it is probably my favorite genre. And also include the games that I have tried and aren't for me. But, just quickly, these would be some of the area control games I'd pull out: Inis, Blood Rage, Kemet, Cyclades, Chaos in the Old World, Ankh, Root, Battle for Rokugan
One of the things I would like to see changed or offered is a more thematic board. The flat pallet of colors doesn’t seem to fit with the dark/sci-if feel of the game. Who know, might just be the prototype board.
I've lost faith in AR ability to make a descent rule book. How was this one? I heard "messy" a couple times in the review. Was that referring the board state or the rules?
Hard to say....we're all walking in knowing Lords of Hellas which means we can make assumptions about things easily enough. Plus the rulebook currently was a word doc, not yet edited anywhere near where it needs to be. This game is likely the least difficulty I've had with any awaken realms game...but again, we know the core mechanics.
Personally i would like it a little different once ragnarok starts. I dont feel its thematic enough. Maybe something else like once ragnarok start, you cant regain armies and heroes and heroes can attack eachother and its a laststanding brawl between the armies, because that is what ragnarok is, a bloodbath, maybe even drag in the monster to kill each others
I really like the discussion on what you liked and did not like. And Alex, I usually shake my head at your ratings, but hearing your "evolution" on this one was fascinating. I can understand playing a sequel of a favorite game and expecting the same, only to get tossed a curveball and get thrown off. And I can relate to giving the game time and seeing it as it's own game. It was nice seeing the process of your struggle with the 5 rating.
I was speaking with David Turczi this weekend about this. I’m stoked for the solo mode - I know there’s a lot of work to do but a Kwapinski/Turczi collaboration is something the solo community has been waiting for. Thanks for the video Alex.
@@kumanight hehe thank you for the nice attempt. 🥰 Listing my major solo modes, some but not all are also my game designs Anachrony Petrichor Days of Ire Nights of Fire Trickerion Cerebria Excavation earth Teotihuacan Tekhenu Tawantinsuyu Kanban EV Dark Ages Yedo Snowdonia Dice Settlers Blitzkrieg! Europa Universalis The Price of Power Darwin's journey Bitoku Keyper Railways of the World Sniper Elite Imperium Classics and Legends Undaunted Weather Machine Origins: First builders
@@davidturczi5713 Huh. I haven't played any of these. Then again, I'm more of a thematic player. On the STD-scale (Autonomy, Mastery, Connectedness) that means I probably score low on Mastery but high on Connectedness. Oh wait...I DID play Trickerion! Nice theme. Little too crunchy though. For me. Not for many others.
Hope all of you read this. I have been watching both channels for a looooong time now. You guys are by far my favorite content creators keep up the great work.
I love hearing your thoughts, this may be the most honest feedback video I have watch. Love you guys playing off each other one of the best video from you guys yet!
My sense so far is that this is a slightly more complex, arguably deeper game, but lacks the sheer variety of scenarios and characters and modes in Clash for Eternia. Also this seems to be at kind of a higher, more strategic level of abstraction while CfE is straight up squad tactics. That’s putting aside the settings, or the monuments vs Greyskull contest of giant minis. I think there’s probably plenty of differences for someone who’s jam is skirmish games to get both. On the other hand I still think they’d probably be competing pretty head on with each other when I was debating a game to pull off the shelf.
Help!! Haha I'm debating getting Ankh - All In pledge during BF sales but not sure if I should Late Pledge for this instead... Which do you like better?
Hard to say right now...I'd need more info on what games you prefer. Right now I feel more secure in recommending Hellas, since my 5 for Ragnarok is partially on the assumption that it's still in development.
Probably Inis, then Blood Rage, then Kemet, then Cyclades, then Chaos in the Old World - if I had to rank them off the top of my head... don't hold me to this though ;)
This was a really helpful review- thanks guys! Shira, you mentioned that this game was in a genre that you love and there would be other games you’d pull out before this one- can I ask for a few examples of what those games would be?
What all does controlling monsters let you do? Any favorite/flop monsters to control? Do you think controlling Loki is a necessary prerequisite to beat him?
You cant control Loki, only move him once. Controlling a monster lets you decide when and where to move or to attack. Otherwise the active player does and even if you are the active one, you still have to roll a dice who tells you to move or to fight.
Reducing the blessings down to 2/Player is good as far as I am concernd, because it is easier to keep track of everyones abilities. In your playthrough you've had difficulties keeping track of just those 2 abilities.
Honestly watching your play through and this vid, showed me that the game seems to be really one sided. Shira in the play through seemed to be in a bad position during the rest of the game based off one attack by Jessie, and I know it depends of how each player is playing the game. However I also know my game group and if 1 person was in the same position Shira was in they would not be having fun and would be done with the game and wouldn't play it again. So while I was All-In based on the Hype and the Fomo, I decided that the game doesn't fit my game group and I am going to drop my pledge. Its funny because I was really excited to get the game and play it but wasn't expected to feel negative after watching the play-through and review.
Another channel also reviewed this game and their review was basically that they liked the game less and less as they played more of Lords of Hellas. It isn't a bad game, but the problem is that some of the mechanics don't really feel attached to one and another and you don't really control the best pieces on the board. For example. Wouldn't it be cool if you could use a worship action to move a monster in the region of the monument you are worshipping and then resolve the monsters ability in the region it enters if it has one. Now that would be cool and thematic. There are some minor ways the game could ultimately end up being fixed. I just don't really feel like house ruling a game like that. Some games I don't mind house ruling... especially when it is clear why something should be done in a certain way. I know there is a great game in LoH. Which is why it is a shame, they are only reprinting it and not fixing the minor caveats people have with that game.
ahh.. I was hoping this would help me decide if it's worth selling Hellas now! haha. Marcin mentioned in one of his live streams that they'd look at offering upgraded Hellas minis as an extra in the Ragnarok campaign. Be interesting if they do. Also interested to see what they've done with the Ragnarok solo/campaign mode.
That would be very interesting....and ya, I was hoping it would be one or the other....but now I'm not sure. I still think I only keep one, but I don't know for sure.
Thanks for sharing your opinions. The playthrough and your criticism gives me a good point of reference for judging the general gist of the game. I will monitor the campaign with interest because some of weakpoints that you mentioned also came to my mind. Nevertheless, this is a prototype and I‘m absolutely confident that AR will turn this into gold. I watched the entire Great Wall KS unfold, watched the criticism back then, the endless complaints about details, about this and that, but I didn‘t care. AR know their area of work, they gathered much experience and they listen to general ideas and feedback from the community. I have faith that this campaign will be a great success.
It's not a crazy thought....at one point in one of the games I thought that....but also only once. There's some similarities, but a lot more differences.
@@Andy-td4sj There is drafting, combat is similar - area based conflict with card play, even some similarities with victory condition the main difference is you score points in BR and you trigger the end game in LOR. Furthermore, the theme, having units/leader/controllable monsters, map design, etc. Granted games in this genre will usually have some overlap. By no means am I saying it's so close they copied but some people may question whether owning both is necessary.
Totally get not knowing whether your review point will get better or not, but it just seems odd to hear as many "issues" as you all seemed to have with the game and then hear it's a 5.0 or a 4. Can't disagree with any of you as I have no point of reference, but as a consumer it is a confusing mixed message (prototype or not). I also understand that this isn't the same game as LOH, but many of us (like you) are trying to figure out does this game replace others of the same ilk. Is it really different enough to warrant a purchase. Obviously and completely subjective, but this review personally didn't help push me one way or the other. Judging from your feelings on the game you seemed to same problem. Look forward to hearing if you have more thoughts on the game later. As always thanks you all for the video and work you put into making these.
@@BoardGameCo I'll look for it. Nothing but respect you guys (and gal). As cool as those minis look and I'm sure it will be a better design after it's all said and done, I think this may be a pass because of healls. With so many games coming and so many on the shelf. I'm at the point where these KS games are just too much space, money and honestly more of the same. Unless it's something substanically different I can't see the need to own both. I say that as someone who loves AR games and frequently buys, sell off my games and was hoping for corss over expansion ala Kemet and Cyclades. Maybe I'm just missing it in the gameplay videos I've seen and maybe it will be adjusted after the kickstarter but this just looks too similar to hellas for me. Thanks again for the video and the reply.
Lol ya, that was sweet :) He watched the transformation from me feeling that I'd just rather play Hellas, to then understanding what this game does and does well.
I find quite odd you that based on your doubtful comments you give this game a 5/5 in comparison to, for example, 6:Siege which with so many great comments on the review you gave it a 4/5. Utterly Surprising :) Would you prefer LoR over 6:Siege as a skirmish game?
Sure, except I love the genre of area control more than skirmish. And 6 siege as a two player experience primarily won't give me the same experience that Ragnarok gives me.
Okay silly question…how was combat in this game? I watched bits and pieces of 3 differ play-throughs and then I noticed I didn’t see any combat. Was there combat (not monsters)? Was there a little or a lot? How was it? Is it a main focus or just part of the bigger puzzle?
Depends on your hero and playstyle. Fighting monsters is more flashy and eventful, therefor better for youtube-videos. There are no colorful symbols or cool effects in player-combats. Its just comparing numbers on armies & cards.
@@BoardGameCo Thank you for addressing that question. Would love to see Shira's opinion as well on this question since she is the AOC/Skirmish fan. I'm sitting on the pledge manager for MBS and prepared to stick with my pm only access pledge it if I'm convinced AR's LofR is a viable alternative and perhaps even see if LofH is part of a bundle and skip MBS Pantheon/Ragnorak altogether. That said given Shira's other favs you mentioned and her comments I'm wondering if we should focus on backfilling with existing highly rated AOC/Skirmish favs instead of pressing forward with LoR. I have BR and Kemet in her list but not the others of which CitW is harder to obtain. Given Kemet was rereleased I was really waiting to see if they would revamp Cyclades next via crowdfunding.
IMO they're too different in feel to compare. MBR is an army builder skirmish game with dice combat, LoR is more area control blended with skirmish. Personally I'm getting both as I don't have an army building game and MBR looks absolutely incredible
Yes, I specifically said tentative....it's a weird place, if this were the final game it would be a 4/5, but the balance is that I'm comparing it to Lords of Hellas, which is a definite 5, and I'm not sure which one I prefer right now. I assume that some of our critiques will still be cleaned up based on the standard Awaken Realms process.
I'm guessing LoR and LoH shares more common points than Blood Rage and Rising Sun. So you will eventually end up with 1 game? Hopefully a PTNT episode of the 2 will come out soon (even just comparing the base game at the current prototype state) A bit concerning to hear about player count. 3 is a rather weird number Do you think this one is easier or harder to teach than LoH? My sense is that the rune system and lots of the OR (eg. heal injury or move hero or move drakkar) will be more confusing
Lots of criticisms to give it a 4-5 IMO. I think it's OK to give it a 3 being a KS Prototype and give the ownership to AR to deliver a 4-5 game after the campaign.
Looking strictly at the ‘Area Control’ ‘Dudes on a Map’ genre, I think you could divide this into sub genres. I haven’t played LoR but I have played ‘Lords of Hellas’, and the gameplay offers a very different experience than I get from Blood Rage. That is why I own multiple games in this genre, because they offer enough differences. If you just need one game for this genre, it’s pretty hard to top Blood Rage. But if your looking to broaden your portfolio, then I think this is a plausible candidate.
Great thoughts, thanks for this. Seems like a lot of ways to help other people win when you are obviously not going to. Is there a good bit of diplomacy involved? Any opinions on potential kingmaking issues?
Ahhh best player count-3 made ma sad :(. Because I hoped that this game will be at least good at 1 and 2 players. I know it's only prototype and this game still can be much better at the end. Also I still believe Awaken Realms will work on, polish solo and 2 player modes too and those modes will be great too.
@@BoardGameCo Ahhh, I must missed something 😁, thanks for response Alex. So does it mean that there will be special, separate solo and two player modules? Can't wait to see how it plays
@@kumanight Yeah, I've already read update. It gives a hope, that both modes will be nicely done and balanced :). That will be main factor for me for backing this game and not only for me as I can see ;).
Solid review, but I'll pass. There's way too many options out there to spend an insane amount of money on a "potentially" great game. I'll stick with Lords of Hellas, which I enjoy.
Limited Budget Cage Match, considering how much money we would end up dropping on LoR all-In/painted minis, Alex if we don't already have Zombicide BP which one would we be better off going all-in on (Assume all of BP hovers between 600-1000 on ebay/etc)? Ok same question to Quack except replace Zombicide BP with an all in on the upcoming Too Many Bones Unbreakable (~1K). Ok to be fair to Shira would you pick up all of Cyclades (or wait for a Kemet style KS 2.0 Campaign - any rumors to that effect?) . Ok I get these choices aren't in the same genre but I'm specifically addressing a limited budget and trying to determine what to prioritize among your favorites. Ok I suppose Quack would want me to replace LoR/TMBU with LoR/KDM but it would be more like 25% of KDM so If he wants to suggest a partial KDM as priority #1 I would understand. Sorry I don't know Shira well enough yet to offer her the perfect question. Feel free to adjust it to your favorite comparable cost game framework. Perhaps Blood Rage but I think many may already have BR so perhaps pick your 2nd favorite to match up with. :) Rgarding limited budgets though does anyone have a sense yet of how Awaken Realms approaches availability of their products in future campaigns. I've noticed Nemesis certainly was accessible in future campaigns, how should one look at LofR if they feel it is beyond their budget now. Do you think that Awaken Realms is a bit more friendly than CMON in terms of second chances to acquire their games in future offerings? I was fairly late to the CMON party so missed Arcadia, and lots of Zombicide editions. While they did rerelease lots of BR stuff it seems CMON doesn't tend to offer 2nd chances on many of its offerings (even the Time Machine seemed to be limited or very competitive). Essentially should we be approach LoR with the same FOMO as some of the CMON offerings? Well little did I know that Alex was going to cover TMB today so maybe I should have directed that pair at him. :) In that review he speaks to the idea that some fives are more equal than others. :)
And I still feel that way 100% on a personal level. But if I'm reviewing games I want to play them multiple times. That said, this is still different...the game was never bad, it just started as less good compared to Hellas, but it was always a good game.
It's fascinating reading some of these comments with people basically saying your opinion on the game is wrong. If they've ever watched your videos 5s are not perfect games, they're allowed to have flaws or critiques, but do those flaws take away from the fun and experience? Also why is not liking something at first but then changing your mind mean that the game can't possibly be that good???? As you said it's a different game but you were playing it like Hellas. Once you figured that out your way of playing it changed and you liked it more. Seems simple enough. It's a review of a prototype so should always be taken with a grain of salt anyway. This is an opinion not gospel, if you didn't like it look for other opinions... just fascinating I say lol
Agreed :) I do understand where they're coming from. The confusion between a 4 and 5 is my first play was great...but it was disappointing when compared to the original which I loved. But then it got better over multiple plays. The balance of why it seems off to some is because given my love for it's predecessor, the difference between a 4 and a 5 is the entire nature of disappointment vs not.
Lol, I hear you....except that Quackalope is the channel with a paid relationship, and for him it's a 4....I'm the one without the paid relationship and the only one that gave it a 5 :)
@@BoardGameCo Oh, I didn't even realize Quack was paid. Interesting and here I thought I was paying attention. It is nice to know that the companies allow you to rate them even though they are paying you. Unlike say a certain other reviewer that has the power of such verbal eloquence that makes you think every game walks on water that he is paid to review. (Not naming any names mind you...). Is that part of the arrangement Quack has is that he has the freedom to rate them as he sees fit? That is great to disclose if it is and I think that is a really good place to be in the greater scheme of things rather than say "I'm being paid and take everything I say with a grain of salt" at the intro to every review...oops might have given my unnamed reviewer away with that...
@@sidneyleejohnson It's a balance for sure, but I think smart companies shouldn't shy away from critiques. It's one thing if you're trashing a game, but it's another if you're talking about what you like and don't like.
@@BoardGameCo That‘s what I really like about your review style. You three didn‘t trash the game. You gave valuable feedback derived from actual experience. This is exactly what Adam Kwapiński and Marcin Śvierkot need in order to improve on this prototype.
@@sidneyleejohnson It is a balance - They are paying me fo the 8 hours it takes to produce a Gameplay - not review or any extra content. However, if I do review the game (Especily on another channel) - I need to give the audience a heads-up! Most of the content we make is not paid :)
I'm so excited for this game. I was about to pull the trigger on LoH right before LoR was announced and I'm happy to wait. The theme and minis alone put it above Helas for me
Sounds like this game has a ton of potential, but maybe needs a little more refinement. Do you know how likely it is it'll be refined to your liking, aka how responsive the publisher and designer are likely to be to future changes? I know Awaken Realms is prone to publishing beautiful and fun, but flawed games that could use a little more time in the oven.
To your point my understanding is that they can often address things between wave 1 and wave 2 of a product when the campaign stretches pretty far. Alex recently suggested he would let go of Etherfields but I think AR is actually going to add some fixes/enhancements to address some of the concerns in the 1st wave. While I would prefer that they can improve before wave 1 there seems to be some suggestion that they will strive to listen over time.
The Great Wall changed quite a bit after the KS, up to the point that some people where complaining it was a different game after all the changes, which I don't really agree with. But quite a few things were changed up in the rules.
@@sidneyleejohnson yeah there's a rule supplement you can download to skip the phase most people complain about so rather than every game you just do it once a session for example.
Hello Alex, We are both big fans of Blood Rage. So I'm very curious on this question: In your opinion, which game (BR or LoR) you enjoy more playing and which one would hit the table more often? Thank you and great video ! Artur
I love having all of you discussing a game! But what I am confused with here is you were consistently comparing to Helas - a game I've never played. So I was left wondering about this one quite a bit. Did you assume those watching had played Helas? I guess the comparison was obvious to you. Maybe I'm jumping in at the wrong place as well - maybe other videos (shared on other channels?) have more explanations although I have no guide to this. Also, it felt like you played multiple times (was it mentioned how many?) and talked as if the game was well known already - certainly was by each of you. But I have no concept about the game. Hmm. Unsure what could be done about it as explaining the entire game is likely too much.
Anytime, this one was a tough one, I walked in disappointed with it because it felt like Lords of Hellas but worse...than I started playing with all the new stuff :)
Haha that's what you get if you hang out with the duck too much, clickbait🤪 just so you know I will click on any video of yours no matter the title 😍 So wrong 🤣
This felt really conflicting to me. The overall tone was very down on the game to be rating it 4 and 5 IMO. I don’t know what to think after watching this, but still appreciate you all!
Keep in mind, talking about the things we want to see improved is very different than not liking a game, I'm not sure what aspect of this was "down", Start, middle and end I'm smiling and clearly enjoying myself.
@@BoardGameCo I think a lot of the criticisms sound like major concerns. Besides the I was disappointed thing, hearing that monsters are not impactful (though also that they are?), two of the victory conditions are unachievable, nothing feels epic, all the drakkar stuff, it is like, yikes, wow. Coupled with what AR has said about all the playtests having great feedback and iirc that the game (these prototypes) were so far along they were talking about delaying the campaign and having a shorter development time/faster delivery time... I mean it sounded like the game was pretty much dev done, while your great and well presented thoughts contradict my (possibly unfounded) expectations.
Just want to say that I love these crossover reviews. When you guys are together, it really feels like a group of friends playing/talking about games and just having a good time. It's the exact vibe I look for in this space 😊
After hearing Shira's thoughts, I'm curious what her favorite area control games are. Has she listed those somewhere?
I'm curious too 🤔
Same
I was hoping to hear some name dropping, but nothing... :(
I'd also be curious! Let's hear 'em!
Hi everyone... it seems as if this is a common question here. This is my third time seeing it and I'm not even halfway through the comments. No worries. I hope to put out a video on Quackalope one of these weeks on my top area control games because it is probably my favorite genre. And also include the games that I have tried and aren't for me. But, just quickly, these would be some of the area control games I'd pull out: Inis, Blood Rage, Kemet, Cyclades, Chaos in the Old World, Ankh, Root, Battle for Rokugan
I really like this format and am really amazed that the review retains it structure and how well you three play of each other in 1 take.
Thank you sir :)
Her face at 7:49 is like "I am going to see how he saves this from his train wreck introduction" lol
One of the things I would like to see changed or offered is a more thematic board. The flat pallet of colors doesn’t seem to fit with the dark/sci-if feel of the game. Who know, might just be the prototype board.
I agree, especially seeing the sepia sundrop monsters on the bright board.
I've lost faith in AR ability to make a descent rule book. How was this one? I heard "messy" a couple times in the review. Was that referring the board state or the rules?
Hard to say....we're all walking in knowing Lords of Hellas which means we can make assumptions about things easily enough. Plus the rulebook currently was a word doc, not yet edited anywhere near where it needs to be. This game is likely the least difficulty I've had with any awaken realms game...but again, we know the core mechanics.
@@BoardGameCo AR needs to level up in this regard. AR levelled up. AR is evolving. AR has become ARB (Awakened Rulebook) and learned a new move.
Personally i would like it a little different once ragnarok starts. I dont feel its thematic enough. Maybe something else like once ragnarok start, you cant regain armies and heroes and heroes can attack eachother and its a laststanding brawl between the armies, because that is what ragnarok is, a bloodbath, maybe even drag in the monster to kill each others
I should have watched this before spending $550 on this game lol
I really like the discussion on what you liked and did not like. And Alex, I usually shake my head at your ratings, but hearing your "evolution" on this one was fascinating. I can understand playing a sequel of a favorite game and expecting the same, only to get tossed a curveball and get thrown off. And I can relate to giving the game time and seeing it as it's own game. It was nice seeing the process of your struggle with the 5 rating.
I was speaking with David Turczi this weekend about this. I’m stoked for the solo mode - I know there’s a lot of work to do but a Kwapinski/Turczi collaboration is something the solo community has been waiting for. Thanks for the video Alex.
I'm very intrigued how a solo mode would work for this one :)
@Allan Nielsen turczi? Pretty much a majority of solo modes haha
@Allan Nielsen Yedo, Voidfall and Imperium Classics/Legends off the top of my head
@@kumanight hehe thank you for the nice attempt. 🥰
Listing my major solo modes, some but not all are also my game designs
Anachrony
Petrichor
Days of Ire
Nights of Fire
Trickerion
Cerebria
Excavation earth
Teotihuacan
Tekhenu
Tawantinsuyu
Kanban EV
Dark Ages
Yedo
Snowdonia
Dice Settlers
Blitzkrieg!
Europa Universalis The Price of Power
Darwin's journey
Bitoku
Keyper
Railways of the World
Sniper Elite
Imperium Classics and Legends
Undaunted
Weather Machine
Origins: First builders
@@davidturczi5713 Huh. I haven't played any of these. Then again, I'm more of a thematic player. On the STD-scale (Autonomy, Mastery, Connectedness) that means I probably score low on Mastery but high on Connectedness. Oh wait...I DID play Trickerion! Nice theme. Little too crunchy though. For me. Not for many others.
Hope all of you read this. I have been watching both channels for a looooong time now. You guys are by far my favorite content creators keep up the great work.
Thanks Jeffrey :)
Quack
Thanks for the support and hanging with us!
I love hearing your thoughts, this may be the most honest feedback video I have watch. Love you guys playing off each other one of the best video from you guys yet!
Thank you :) I really appreciate it.
Great review and great to see Shira animated about the play and review. Good job all
Thanks Shawn.
Thanks!
were any of the complaints fixed in the final version?
I haven't played it yet but I know some have, for instance visibility of the dials.
That table presence... how much space do I need to be able to get everything on the table?
Right now it's on a table that's 2.5 by 4 or so, and it all works.
I'd like to know how LOR compares to CMON Masters of Universe. Both seem confrontational, mid-complexity, objective-based, powering-up type games.
My sense so far is that this is a slightly more complex, arguably deeper game, but lacks the sheer variety of scenarios and characters and modes in Clash for Eternia. Also this seems to be at kind of a higher, more strategic level of abstraction while CfE is straight up squad tactics. That’s putting aside the settings, or the monuments vs Greyskull contest of giant minis. I think there’s probably plenty of differences for someone who’s jam is skirmish games to get both. On the other hand I still think they’d probably be competing pretty head on with each other when I was debating a game to pull off the shelf.
Help!! Haha I'm debating getting Ankh - All In pledge during BF sales but not sure if I should Late Pledge for this instead... Which do you like better?
Most people prefer Ankh.
So if I don't have either, would you recommend Lords of Hellas over Lords of Ragnarok? More epic?
Hard to say right now...I'd need more info on what games you prefer. Right now I feel more secure in recommending Hellas, since my 5 for Ragnarok is partially on the assumption that it's still in development.
I'm curious what's shira's favorite area control game
I think Blood Rage, but might be Inis.
@@BoardGameCo haven't played them. Will check them out
Probably Inis, then Blood Rage, then Kemet, then Cyclades, then Chaos in the Old World - if I had to rank them off the top of my head... don't hold me to this though ;)
how do you compare this game against blood rage?
Blood rage still wins if that's your question :)
This was a really helpful review- thanks guys! Shira, you mentioned that this game was in a genre that you love and there would be other games you’d pull out before this one- can I ask for a few examples of what those games would be?
Off the top of my head: Inis, Blood Rage, Kemet, Cyclades, Chaos in the Old World, Ankh
Can you provide an average game length in your experience?
So far all under 2 hours, coming in generally 90 min or so.
Your reviews are so good guys.I love the fact you give a real opinion and not just being nice. This what watchers like me are looking for. Keep going!
Thanks Franck :)
What is the use of the dice?
To decide how uncontrolled monsters act.
@@BoardGameCo I don't like dice. So do you think we can get rid of it and replace it with something else?
@@AhmedAbdulMoniem play chess
How balanced would you say the win conditions are? Did you mostly just go for temple victory’s since it’s the easiest or is it pretty open?
We've actually tried for all three, but so far the ones that have won are Ragnarok and Temple.
@@BoardGameCo thanks for replying, probably needs some balancing on the victory conditions then i bet. Hopefully they look into it
@@kieran1505Their comment was basically "get good" lol. There is a point though, that most people talking about this only played once.
What all does controlling monsters let you do? Any favorite/flop monsters to control? Do you think controlling Loki is a necessary prerequisite to beat him?
You cant control Loki, only move him once. Controlling a monster lets you decide when and where to move or to attack. Otherwise the active player does and even if you are the active one, you still have to roll a dice who tells you to move or to fight.
Why are the Munsters in this game? That said, I'm really hoping they include Grandpa, he is my favorite Munster.
Grandpa is the best :)
Yea is he intentionally saying "Monster" as "Munster"?
Reducing the blessings down to 2/Player is good as far as I am concernd, because it is easier to keep track of everyones abilities.
In your playthrough you've had difficulties keeping track of just those 2 abilities.
I agree in theory...but at the cost of abilities :) But yes, I hear your point.
Really agree. In LoH it was impossible to keep track of all the blessings without slowing down the game
Honestly watching your play through and this vid, showed me that the game seems to be really one sided. Shira in the play through seemed to be in a bad position during the rest of the game based off one attack by Jessie, and I know it depends of how each player is playing the game. However I also know my game group and if 1 person was in the same position Shira was in they would not be having fun and would be done with the game and wouldn't play it again. So while I was All-In based on the Hype and the Fomo, I decided that the game doesn't fit my game group and I am going to drop my pledge. Its funny because I was really excited to get the game and play it but wasn't expected to feel negative after watching the play-through and review.
Another channel also reviewed this game and their review was basically that they liked the game less and less as they played more of Lords of Hellas. It isn't a bad game, but the problem is that some of the mechanics don't really feel attached to one and another and you don't really control the best pieces on the board. For example. Wouldn't it be cool if you could use a worship action to move a monster in the region of the monument you are worshipping and then resolve the monsters ability in the region it enters if it has one. Now that would be cool and thematic. There are some minor ways the game could ultimately end up being fixed. I just don't really feel like house ruling a game like that. Some games I don't mind house ruling... especially when it is clear why something should be done in a certain way. I know there is a great game in LoH. Which is why it is a shame, they are only reprinting it and not fixing the minor caveats people have with that game.
Secondly. Any game that gets better with repeat plays is preferred over games that get worse with repeat plays.
ahh.. I was hoping this would help me decide if it's worth selling Hellas now! haha.
Marcin mentioned in one of his live streams that they'd look at offering upgraded Hellas minis as an extra in the Ragnarok campaign. Be interesting if they do.
Also interested to see what they've done with the Ragnarok solo/campaign mode.
That would be very interesting....and ya, I was hoping it would be one or the other....but now I'm not sure. I still think I only keep one, but I don't know for sure.
top 10 area control games from both of you please! It is also one of my favorite genre of games.
Thanks for sharing your opinions. The playthrough and your criticism gives me a good point of reference for judging the general gist of the game. I will monitor the campaign with interest because some of weakpoints that you mentioned also came to my mind. Nevertheless, this is a prototype and I‘m absolutely confident that AR will turn this into gold. I watched the entire Great Wall KS unfold, watched the criticism back then, the endless complaints about details, about this and that, but I didn‘t care. AR know their area of work, they gathered much experience and they listen to general ideas and feedback from the community. I have faith that this campaign will be a great success.
I like the endings. However I did not expect the camera to continue rolling here though :)
My first reaction to seeing the campaign was that it's just Blood Rage v2.0. It might be worth doing a Buy This Not That pitting LoR and Blood Rage.
It's not a crazy thought....at one point in one of the games I thought that....but also only once. There's some similarities, but a lot more differences.
Blood Rage v2.0 is not this but is coming.
@@kenrickcarlsonkeh191 Apparently it's expansion content for BR not V2.
I dont see any resemblance to Blood Rage. There is no drafting, combat is also very different, victory condition is totally not the same.
@@Andy-td4sj There is drafting, combat is similar - area based conflict with card play, even some similarities with victory condition the main difference is you score points in BR and you trigger the end game in LOR. Furthermore, the theme, having units/leader/controllable monsters, map design, etc. Granted games in this genre will usually have some overlap. By no means am I saying it's so close they copied but some people may question whether owning both is necessary.
Totally get not knowing whether your review point will get better or not, but it just seems odd to hear as many "issues" as you all seemed to have with the game and then hear it's a 5.0 or a 4. Can't disagree with any of you as I have no point of reference, but as a consumer it is a confusing mixed message (prototype or not). I also understand that this isn't the same game as LOH, but many of us (like you) are trying to figure out does this game replace others of the same ilk. Is it really different enough to warrant a purchase. Obviously and completely subjective, but this review personally didn't help push me one way or the other. Judging from your feelings on the game you seemed to same problem. Look forward to hearing if you have more thoughts on the game later. As always thanks you all for the video and work you put into making these.
Totally understand, I had to address this in my week in review.
@@BoardGameCo I'll look for it. Nothing but respect you guys (and gal). As cool as those minis look and I'm sure it will be a better design after it's all said and done, I think this may be a pass because of healls. With so many games coming and so many on the shelf. I'm at the point where these KS games are just too much space, money and honestly more of the same. Unless it's something substanically different I can't see the need to own both. I say that as someone who loves AR games and frequently buys, sell off my games and was hoping for corss over expansion ala Kemet and Cyclades. Maybe I'm just missing it in the gameplay videos I've seen and maybe it will be adjusted after the kickstarter but this just looks too similar to hellas for me. Thanks again for the video and the reply.
Quack: " im so excited for you!" This is why all of your chemistry together is magic
Lol ya, that was sweet :) He watched the transformation from me feeling that I'd just rather play Hellas, to then understanding what this game does and does well.
I find quite odd you that based on your doubtful comments you give this game a 5/5 in comparison to, for example, 6:Siege which with so many great comments on the review you gave it a 4/5. Utterly Surprising :) Would you prefer LoR over 6:Siege as a skirmish game?
Sure, except I love the genre of area control more than skirmish. And 6 siege as a two player experience primarily won't give me the same experience that Ragnarok gives me.
Okay silly question…how was combat in this game? I watched bits and pieces of 3 differ play-throughs and then I noticed I didn’t see any combat.
Was there combat (not monsters)?
Was there a little or a lot?
How was it?
Is it a main focus or just part of the bigger puzzle?
Depends on your hero and playstyle. Fighting monsters is more flashy and eventful, therefor better for youtube-videos. There are no colorful symbols or cool effects in player-combats. Its just comparing numbers on armies & cards.
@@fruehlingsobst8123 😂 Thanks. I have the game now and I’ve played it a few times now.
What is the best game loard of ragnarok or mythic battles ragnarok?
For me Lords....but I never loved the Mythic Battles system.
@@BoardGameCo Thank you for addressing that question. Would love to see Shira's opinion as well on this question since she is the AOC/Skirmish fan. I'm sitting on the pledge manager for MBS and prepared to stick with my pm only access pledge it if I'm convinced AR's LofR is a viable alternative and perhaps even see if LofH is part of a bundle and skip MBS Pantheon/Ragnorak altogether. That said given Shira's other favs you mentioned and her comments I'm wondering if we should focus on backfilling with existing highly rated AOC/Skirmish favs instead of pressing forward with LoR. I have BR and Kemet in her list but not the others of which CitW is harder to obtain. Given Kemet was rereleased I was really waiting to see if they would revamp Cyclades next via crowdfunding.
IMO they're too different in feel to compare. MBR is an army builder skirmish game with dice combat, LoR is more area control blended with skirmish. Personally I'm getting both as I don't have an army building game and MBR looks absolutely incredible
@@kumanight same.
When Shira says "punchy" does she mean impactful? I'm not sure what she means when she describes things as punchy
I use the word punchy to refer to being mean... taking punches at someone during a game; metaphorically.
@@guinealover121 Thanks for the clarification
Some plays and thoughts on 2 players
The game isn't yet ready to play at two according to the most recent update.
I guess I'm not getting this AR game then.... shame. Nice minis.
Which part decided that for you?
5/5 with that many critiques?
Yes, I specifically said tentative....it's a weird place, if this were the final game it would be a 4/5, but the balance is that I'm comparing it to Lords of Hellas, which is a definite 5, and I'm not sure which one I prefer right now. I assume that some of our critiques will still be cleaned up based on the standard Awaken Realms process.
@@BoardGameCo Fair enough.
I'm guessing LoR and LoH shares more common points than Blood Rage and Rising Sun. So you will eventually end up with 1 game? Hopefully a PTNT episode of the 2 will come out soon (even just comparing the base game at the current prototype state)
A bit concerning to hear about player count. 3 is a rather weird number
Do you think this one is easier or harder to teach than LoH? My sense is that the rune system and lots of the OR (eg. heal injury or move hero or move drakkar) will be more confusing
Lots of criticisms to give it a 4-5 IMO. I think it's OK to give it a 3 being a KS Prototype and give the ownership to AR to deliver a 4-5 game after the campaign.
Oh it's definitely not a 3 for me. If those criticisms bother you can definitely consider it what you want though.
How does it compare to Bloodrage (considering its one of the best games ever?) :)
Blood Rage still wins for me :)
Looking strictly at the ‘Area Control’ ‘Dudes on a Map’ genre, I think you could divide this into sub genres. I haven’t played LoR but I have played ‘Lords of Hellas’, and the gameplay offers a very different experience than I get from Blood Rage. That is why I own multiple games in this genre, because they offer enough differences.
If you just need one game for this genre, it’s pretty hard to top Blood Rage. But if your looking to broaden your portfolio, then I think this is a plausible candidate.
Great thoughts, thanks for this. Seems like a lot of ways to help other people win when you are obviously not going to. Is there a good bit of diplomacy involved? Any opinions on potential kingmaking issues?
Ahhh best player count-3 made ma sad :(. Because I hoped that this game will be at least good at 1 and 2 players.
I know it's only prototype and this game still can be much better at the end.
Also I still believe Awaken Realms will work on, polish solo and 2 player modes too and those modes will be great too.
We hadn't played at 1 or 2 yet, the prototype isn't yet playable for 2.
@@BoardGameCo Ahhh, I must missed something 😁, thanks for response Alex. So does it mean that there will be special, separate solo and two player modules?
Can't wait to see how it plays
They're still working on the solo and two player modes so hopefully we get gameplay and reviews of those later on
@@kumanight Yeah, I've already read update.
It gives a hope, that both modes will be nicely done and balanced :).
That will be main factor for me for backing this game and not only for me as I can see ;).
@@marcinczyzewski5021 Yup I'm right there with you :)
Solid review, but I'll pass. There's way too many options out there to spend an insane amount of money on a "potentially" great game. I'll stick with Lords of Hellas, which I enjoy.
I'll probably pass on Ragnarok and get whatever upgrades they offer for Hellas.
Totally reasonable.
Not a bad idea
I love the theme and look of this game. But, I don't know, my gut says, pass.
Money saved :)
When Alex says 5 out of 5 my wallet get more lighter... Is a good or a bad things? 🤔
If your tastes align, then a good thing :)
Limited Budget Cage Match, considering how much money we would end up dropping on LoR all-In/painted minis, Alex if we don't already have Zombicide BP which one would we be better off going all-in on (Assume all of BP hovers between 600-1000 on ebay/etc)? Ok same question to Quack except replace Zombicide BP with an all in on the upcoming Too Many Bones Unbreakable (~1K). Ok to be fair to Shira would you pick up all of Cyclades (or wait for a Kemet style KS 2.0 Campaign - any rumors to that effect?) . Ok I get these choices aren't in the same genre but I'm specifically addressing a limited budget and trying to determine what to prioritize among your favorites. Ok I suppose Quack would want me to replace LoR/TMBU with LoR/KDM but it would be more like 25% of KDM so If he wants to suggest a partial KDM as priority #1 I would understand. Sorry I don't know Shira well enough yet to offer her the perfect question. Feel free to adjust it to your favorite comparable cost game framework. Perhaps Blood Rage but I think many may already have BR so perhaps pick your 2nd favorite to match up with. :) Rgarding limited budgets though does anyone have a sense yet of how Awaken Realms approaches availability of their products in future campaigns. I've noticed Nemesis certainly was accessible in future campaigns, how should one look at LofR if they feel it is beyond their budget now. Do you think that Awaken Realms is a bit more friendly than CMON in terms of second chances to acquire their games in future offerings? I was fairly late to the CMON party so missed Arcadia, and lots of Zombicide editions. While they did rerelease lots of BR stuff it seems CMON doesn't tend to offer 2nd chances on many of its offerings (even the Time Machine seemed to be limited or very competitive). Essentially should we be approach LoR with the same FOMO as some of the CMON offerings? Well little did I know that Alex was going to cover TMB today so maybe I should have directed that pair at him. :) In that review he speaks to the idea that some fives are more equal than others. :)
Looks like we are starting to see rumors of Cyclades 2 for crowdfunding in 2023. Just a follow up Note.
Not sure if I'm remembering correctly but I remember Alex making a video on why you shouldn't give games a second chance 😂
And I still feel that way 100% on a personal level. But if I'm reviewing games I want to play them multiple times.
That said, this is still different...the game was never bad, it just started as less good compared to Hellas, but it was always a good game.
I guess knowing nothing about the other game, is helping me make my decision today (along with this review, of course) 👍
It's fascinating reading some of these comments with people basically saying your opinion on the game is wrong. If they've ever watched your videos 5s are not perfect games, they're allowed to have flaws or critiques, but do those flaws take away from the fun and experience? Also why is not liking something at first but then changing your mind mean that the game can't possibly be that good???? As you said it's a different game but you were playing it like Hellas. Once you figured that out your way of playing it changed and you liked it more. Seems simple enough. It's a review of a prototype so should always be taken with a grain of salt anyway. This is an opinion not gospel, if you didn't like it look for other opinions... just fascinating I say lol
Agreed :) I do understand where they're coming from. The confusion between a 4 and 5 is my first play was great...but it was disappointing when compared to the original which I loved. But then it got better over multiple plays. The balance of why it seems off to some is because given my love for it's predecessor, the difference between a 4 and a 5 is the entire nature of disappointment vs not.
This game is a four out of five (cheque clears from AR).. did I say four?? I meant five.
Lol, I hear you....except that Quackalope is the channel with a paid relationship, and for him it's a 4....I'm the one without the paid relationship and the only one that gave it a 5 :)
@@BoardGameCo Oh, I didn't even realize Quack was paid. Interesting and here I thought I was paying attention. It is nice to know that the companies allow you to rate them even though they are paying you. Unlike say a certain other reviewer that has the power of such verbal eloquence that makes you think every game walks on water that he is paid to review. (Not naming any names mind you...). Is that part of the arrangement Quack has is that he has the freedom to rate them as he sees fit? That is great to disclose if it is and I think that is a really good place to be in the greater scheme of things rather than say "I'm being paid and take everything I say with a grain of salt" at the intro to every review...oops might have given my unnamed reviewer away with that...
@@sidneyleejohnson It's a balance for sure, but I think smart companies shouldn't shy away from critiques. It's one thing if you're trashing a game, but it's another if you're talking about what you like and don't like.
@@BoardGameCo That‘s what I really like about your review style. You three didn‘t trash the game. You gave valuable feedback derived from actual experience. This is exactly what Adam Kwapiński and Marcin Śvierkot need in order to improve on this prototype.
@@sidneyleejohnson It is a balance - They are paying me fo the 8 hours it takes to produce a Gameplay - not review or any extra content. However, if I do review the game (Especily on another channel) - I need to give the audience a heads-up! Most of the content we make is not paid :)
What are the young lady's other favourites in the area control/skirmish genre?
Blood Rage, Inis, Kemet, Cyclades, Chaos in the World and prob more.
Haha Alex got them pretty much correct. I've answered this one above... lots of options!
Lots of great points! Really appreciate the critical view!
Much appreciated!
It plays better at higher player count is a big minus for me. I mostly play at 1-2 player count.
So far 3 has been our sweet spot personally.
The solo and two player modes are still being developed so hopefully those will be fleshed out well
I'm so excited for this game. I was about to pull the trigger on LoH right before LoR was announced and I'm happy to wait. The theme and minis alone put it above Helas for me
Sounds like this game has a ton of potential, but maybe needs a little more refinement. Do you know how likely it is it'll be refined to your liking, aka how responsive the publisher and designer are likely to be to future changes? I know Awaken Realms is prone to publishing beautiful and fun, but flawed games that could use a little more time in the oven.
AR are pretty good at listening and have been known to write new rulebooks to ship in wave 2.
To your point my understanding is that they can often address things between wave 1 and wave 2 of a product when the campaign stretches pretty far. Alex recently suggested he would let go of Etherfields but I think AR is actually going to add some fixes/enhancements to address some of the concerns in the 1st wave. While I would prefer that they can improve before wave 1 there seems to be some suggestion that they will strive to listen over time.
AR stated they will develop the game more after the campaign ends so hopefully they use that time to address all the critiques
The Great Wall changed quite a bit after the KS, up to the point that some people where complaining it was a different game after all the changes, which I don't really agree with. But quite a few things were changed up in the rules.
@@sidneyleejohnson yeah there's a rule supplement you can download to skip the phase most people complain about so rather than every game you just do it once a session for example.
Hello Alex,
We are both big fans of Blood Rage. So I'm very curious on this question: In your opinion, which game (BR or LoR) you enjoy more playing and which one would hit the table more often?
Thank you and great video !
Artur
Still Blood Rage for now :)
Cool review man. One thing though you gotta get your quacklopes friend to chill a bit. Bordering on overacting.
Dissapointed 5/5 ? Now I know everything is possible :d the table presence is awesome!
lol, started off dissapointed :)
I love having all of you discussing a game! But what I am confused with here is you were consistently comparing to Helas - a game I've never played. So I was left wondering about this one quite a bit. Did you assume those watching had played Helas? I guess the comparison was obvious to you. Maybe I'm jumping in at the wrong place as well - maybe other videos (shared on other channels?) have more explanations although I have no guide to this. Also, it felt like you played multiple times (was it mentioned how many?) and talked as if the game was well known already - certainly was by each of you. But I have no concept about the game. Hmm. Unsure what could be done about it as explaining the entire game is likely too much.
The reaction to this compared to LoH seems very different and it getting a 5/5 on potential is enough for me to be cautious. Thanks for the review.
Anytime, this one was a tough one, I walked in disappointed with it because it felt like Lords of Hellas but worse...than I started playing with all the new stuff :)
Haha that's what you get if you hang out with the duck too much, clickbait🤪 just so you know I will click on any video of yours no matter the title 😍
So wrong 🤣
:)
Shalom!
Shalom :)
I appreciate the critical review and the differing perspectives each of you brings.
Clickbait titles… I can’t.
It's pretty specific....what part is clickbait? It's a 100% honest title about my experience with it.
Game looks amazing, I'm super excited, wallet is not. Thanks for the review!
Lol fair enough :)
$70 CAD for split shipping alone, my wallet is already in tears 😭
I had Lords of Hellas but sold it and I think despite the facelifted version (Lords of Ragnarok) it is still a shallow, eye-candy game.
Get it if don't have Hellas...
That's fair.
Thanks for this! A lot of the criticism, I’d never guess by the gameplay video. Now feel I’ve a better handle on this before the campaign begins…!
Yep, that gameplay video was a really solid game, but the balance is our feedback is also based on all the plays before it.