Neumann TLM 102 vs TLM 103 comparison mic shootout
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 січ 2018
- No EQ, compression, or processing of any kind has been applied to the audio in the video. Completely flat/dry recordings.
In this video I compare the Neumann TLM 103 and TLM 102 large diaphragm condenser microphones. Each mic has subtly different sonic characteristics, which are much more apparent on some sound sources than others. Each are fantastic soundings mics.
Signal Chain: MIc to Rupert Neve Portico 5012 to Line in Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 (2nd generation)
What differences do you hear between the 2 microphones? What mic did you like better on each sound source and why? Let's hear it in the comments!
What lots of people don’t know: there‘s a foam inside the capsule of the 102. You can pull it out by unscrewing the silver ring and pulling the upper side up, but be careful! After removing the foam, the mic opens up, and sounds so much clearer! I even prefer it over my TLM 103 and TLM 49 that’s why I sold those two 🤟🏼
Hello Noah! Thank you for watching and the comment. Now that is something I did not know, very interesting. The 102 definitely doesn't have quite the clarity that the 103 does... But perhaps part of the culprit is that foam you are talking about? I don't know if I'd be brave enough to try that but definitely a very interesting thing to know. Thank you for sharing!
I took the foam off, it’s not hard at all- no glue , nothing, not even touching anything. It definitely clears up noticeably
@@tomszymusic Just removed my foam as well and it is much clearer and cleaner.
Any downside in removing it? Mayb it acts as a protection against humidity?
@@musicxtech6680 Its designed mostly for reducing plosives without the need of a pop filter. Which makes sense considering its the cheapest of their line up. More suitable for potential pod casters and voice artists. Honestly probably doing a huge disservice if you used a pop filter with the foam inside as you would be really muddying down the sound.
What amazing mics!!! Both are incredible! Excelent comparison!! Thanks!!
Hello and thank you for watching! I agree, both are amazing microphones- some people bash the tlm 103 but I think it's a gorgeous vocal microphone. Thanks again for watching and the comment, hope you are safe and healthy!
Despite the disclaimer about not being able to afford the time for mic placement ect. you did an excellent job in your demonstration of these mic's. Thank you.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I wish I had more time to do more of these! But I get them out here and there when I can, and I learned so much about the gear I have in the process, it's very worthwhile. Thank you again for the comment and watching and hope to see you in future videos!
Great singing again! Very lovely :)
On your voice, I like the 103 more. It sounds very natural and open.
On the piano and guitar, the 102 has a nice "forward" sound that feels more balanced and controlled.
For the drums, I like the 103 more, as it once again feels more natural and open, especially on the bass.
For the hi-hat, they are so close in sound that I'm not certain it would matter!
Thanks for the video! Cheers!
Thank you so much! I'm just getting over the flu here and i was a little nasal and breath suppport wasn't as good as it should have been, but it worked enough for the shootoutt! It's actually part of a brand new song I just about phones, technology, and the state of the world. Dying to work on the instrumentals for it.
Regarding the shootout- our ears are very much aligned on this one. I agree with everything you said. Def preferred the 103 on VOX and 102 on piano/guitar. 103 way better on kick and drum OH, and i'd say id give it the edge on hi hat as well. Snare goes to 102 for me, but it's close.
Anyway, thanks for the input and the kind words. It's really inspiring me to release music soon!
Agree / vocals 103.....instruments? would save the money & use 102
Really great comparison, thanks for taking the time. 103 is clearly superior to my ears, but each to their own :)
I was thinking to get TLM-102, but having listened to your wonderful comparison, I now see that TLM-103 is clearly superior! Thank you for your work!
I was listening using the following setup:
DAC: Schiit Bifrost multibit
Amp: Schiit Asgard 2
Headphones: Focal Elear
Wow, thank you so much for the kind words. Glad it was able to be helpful. I found there are so many lacking quality comparisons out there, so i wanted to change that. That's quite a wonderful listening signal chain you have there...How are the focal headphones? I've thought about getting a really good set of cans at some point but worried my dog would chew them or my daughter destroy them
I'm definitely keeping them! :-)
That's a really Schiity setup
Thanks for uploading this comparison!
Thank you so much and for watching! I truly hope it was informative- I always thought most mic comparisons were lacking and not done well, and i'm out to correct that, in addition to other musical plans! Thanks again!
103 for vocals;102 for instruments. 😎 Thanks for vid. BTW I own the 102.
Hello and thank you for the comment! I agree! 103 has a better air and presence for vocals in the 102 of better mid-range for piano and guitar. Keep rocking the 102! 🤘🤘🤘
I couldn’t agree more . 103 gives a saturation needed in vocals but in instruments could give an unfaithful representation of the original sound ...
I like the brightness on the 103... no, I LOVE its brightness. I do love the quality on both. Thanks for sharing this comparison.
Thanks for the demo!
You are welcome my friend! Thank you for stopping by and watching! Stay safe and healthy
Thank you 🌈 best review!
Awesome video dude!. Thanks for doing this comparison. I like 103 better on vocal. But on Hi-hat & snare I like 102
Thank you so much for the comment and for watching! I love to hear what everyone has to say on these, because our ears are all different. I myself like the 103 better on vocals as well, but preferred the 102 on piano and guitar, and the 103 on everything else. I've come to understand that hearing preferences are just about the same way as ice cream flavors, everybody has a different one! Thanks again for contributing and hope to see you back on future videos!
Your shoot out videos are the best
Which would be your preference on vocals ? C414 xlii or Tlm 103 ?
Thank you so much my friend! I am so glad to hear they're helpful, I always found most gear comparison videos a bit lacking and wanted to help remedy that.
That's a tough one on the 103 versus the XLii. If you're talking strictly vocals I would probably go with the 103. If you're going to be using it on other things like instruments and guitars and such I would go with the XLii.
The 103 is not quite as versatile but I do think it requires less EQ to make vocals sit well in a mix.
Hopefully that is helpful? Please let me know if you have any other questions!
I love that warm glassy feel of the 102 for most of the acoustic instruments and male vocals, but the 103 sounds most excellent with female vocals and single coil equipped guitars in a live room setting where you want to pickup the brighter room ambience.
Hello my friend and thank you so much for watching and commenting, sorry for the belated response here. But I agree 100%. The 102 just has a warmer feel that I especially liked on the guitar and piano more myself, just brought out the mid-range and harmonics and body of them better. But having one of each is an amazing one two punch for the studio! Thanks again
The 103 sound better on male vocals as well. I just ordered one yesterday. So excited.
Did you get the mic yet? If so how do you like it?
@@DarkandTwisted I think it depends on your natural vocal harmonics personally I was having a hard time deciding wich one I'd like to buy but I'm thinking I'll go with 102 :)
just purchased the tlm 102 at a discount price! Thank you so much for the amazing review, can't wait to record my guitar & piano on the tlm 102 :)
Awesome! Glad you were able to get one. Just a great little mic. Thanks for the comment and the kind words my friend, I hope you are safe and healthy wherever you are in this crazy world right now.
what was the discount ticket??
hey ross sauce it up
@@MattDxstined you caught me in 4k💀
@@rossgossage lmaooo
Thanks for the shootout.
The 103 is best on vocals and
the 102 is best on instruments.
You are very welcome my friend, thank you for stopping by and listening! I tend to agree with what you are saying as well, something about the 102 especially on piano and guitar sounded better to me, more mid-range presence. But I also agree for the 103 on the vocals, just a great polished sound. Hope you are staying safe and healthy and have a great holiday!
This was a great review.
Thank you so much! Hope it was informative and helpful! I tend to just let the mics speak for themselves instead of me speaking for them...
Very well: the right mic position for a reliable AB test!!
Thank you! Thanks for watching and comment. I truly believe the greatest variable in all these tests is actually a different performance ... therefore when I do my tests I just get the mics as close as possible to record the same performance... There's a tiny bit of variability in the half inch or so that the capsules are apart, but I truly believe that's less of a variable than what occurs between two different takes of anything, be that vocal or drums or whatever. Thank you again my friend!
Very helpful, thanks. I agree with a previous responder--the 103 sounds more natural and open. the 102 tighter. Depends on the job, I guess. The 102 sounded good to me on the snare.
Definitely more open/extended on the 103. But yes, depends on the job and personal preference. I actually like the 102 better on acoustic guitar and piano. Thanks for watching and the comment!
@@tomszymusic and on vocals?
Very helpful, thanks!
You are very welcome my friend! Thank you for stopping by and for the kind words. Stay safe and healthy in this crazy world
103 on voice, snare, hi-hats (hats sounded more natural to me through the 103) and all things that needs the mid-range presence (typically vox etc.) 102 on almost everything else. With the 102's presence/ forwardness sitting higher up the register, and with a less prominent mid-range, it seems to clear up some space for vocals and other lead instruments. These two should be pretty good compliments for each other then. Thanks! :-)
Thanks so much for watching and the comment! I always love hearing what people prefer and like about these shootouts, as nobody's ears are quite exactly alike. And that's the great thing about recorded music- everyone has a little bit different sonic preference and footprint. For me it was the 102 on piano/guitar, and the 103 on pretty much everything else- although the snare was a 50/50 toss up. I'll be sharing a review soon where i give my thoughts on everything in this shootout. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!
From the 102 clips I've heard I think it sounds good for double tracking vocals.
Hello friend and thank you so much for taking the time to watch and comment. I definitely think that would be a great use for the 102! Thanks again and I hope to see you in other videos
I agree with the masses, the 103 wins the vocal test hands down with more timber and presence, worth the extra 4 benjis if your looking for a dedicated vocal mic. The instruments would be splitting hairs, and seems the 102 would be a good value if you wanted a matched pair for drum overheads, and you could spend the $800 you saved on weed and beer....Thanks for taking the time to do the shootout, nicely done.
Hello friend, thank you so much for taking the time to watch and leave such a kind comment. I'm glad it was helpful to you. Take care and stay safe!
103 across the board for me. I'm inspired to shell out the xtra $500 now. thx
Thanks so much for stopping by and the kind words in the comment. I'm glad it was helpful to you. If I had to pick one or the other it would be the 103 as well, especially if any sort of vocal recording was being done. Thanks again and stay safe and healthy!
I’ll be totally frank - if your budget is lower,... yeh, you see where I’m going here. Both sound amazing, but I can only afford the TLM102 just no, so that’s what I bought. Thank you for the comparison - it’s exactly what I needed to help me.
Thank you for watching and the comment, glad it was helpful for you! Happy music making!
It's interesting. I've heard a lot of comparisons, but yours helped me decide. Switching from voice over to singing and the way you did it gave a really good example of what both are capable of. And I agree about using the tlm 102's on piano and guitar. Thanks for taking the time to make the comparison.
Sorry for the belated response, thank you so much for the thoughtful comments and kind words! So happy to hear it was helpful for you. Pretty much what you said is what I sought out to do, make real world comparisons and flip back and forth so you can really get a feel for what each microphone does. Thank you again so much, hope life and music is well with you!
I can grant you that with normal speakers or headphones you can't tell the difference in double blind. You tube audio compression influence much more then mics quality. Anyway I love this video. Can't wait for more. Well done.
UA-cam audio quality definitely degrades the sound, I remember after listening to it after I uploaded it and then going back to the original uncompressed wav files on my computer how much of a difference there was, but got to work with the system we are given! Thank you so much for the kind words!
@@tomszymusic Well deserved. Evaluating mics it's a bit harder for my ears. Especially with 2 very good mic like those one.
Very slight but the win goes to the 103... For the price point you couldn't go wrong with the 102 though. Playing the recordings thru an advanced Hi Fi system and for the most part it was splitting hairs to pick the winner.
Hello and thanks for watching and the comment! They are both high quality microphones, and I preferred the 102 on both acoustic guitar and piano. Either one is more than good enough to make excellent recordings. Thank you for watching and your thoughts!
Imo, the 103 has a slight advantage in range. They both sound excellent. The 103 has a slight stonger punch on the bass and slight better clarity on the highs. Other than that they both would be a dream come true to own.
Your ears and mine are well aligned! There's a bit more high and low end Clarity on the 103, and just something special about the mid-range on the 102. Makes a great combo and covers almost all your bases if you're able to have one of each!
I'd love to have one!!!
Overall I liked the 103 sound better, but on the kick drum I kinda liked the 102 better. Both are great mics and at the end of the day you can always eq either one to get it to sound even closer to what you’re aiming for. The 102 is cheaper by $400 or more depending on if you get the shock mount ( which I personally feel is over priced) but I feel it will definitely get the job done
Nice, thank you
You are very welcome, thanks for watching. Hope it was informative/helpful!
we've been using the 103 for vocals for about 9 months now. It's Incredible!
Hey friend! So glad you are liking the 103! It probably has the most finished / produced sound of any microphone I've heard. At least once I've been able to afford in the 1000 and under price range.
I found most of the time it needs very little EQ, just some compression and de essing to fit very well in the mix.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment, best of luck with your musical endeavors!
Does singing into the tlm 103 off axis fix up the presence boost for plosives, and a better preamp in the audio chain.
show us your productions pls
I would say the 102 has a harsher mid range than the 103. Thanks for the comparison test.
Hey Brent, thank you for taking the time to watch and listen and comment. Definitely a smoothness about the 103, I prefer it for vocal duties! Thanks again and I hope to see you in future videos
Thanks!
You are very welcome! Thanks so much for watching and the kind words!
How were the mics positioned for acoustic guitar? Seems like the differences in the bottom end are too big to be accounted by the mics only, rather the different positioms seem to play a role here.
Thanks for watching and for the questions. The mics were positioned as close as physically possible for every single sound source. That is, the mics were placed end to end touching each other, so that the capsules were at most 1/2" away from each other. The only thing separating the capsules is the end of the grill of each microphone. Angled directly at the same angle at the sound source. Does this make sense? Just look at the picture on the screen for when i was doing the vocal testing, that is the position i had the mics for each sound source, just moved for each instrument so it was in front of each sound source. For the acoustic guitar, i had the mics about 18" away and 18" up, angled down at the neck of the guitar halfway between the 12th fret and where the neck meets the body. A test like this takes a good bit of time to do between mic positioning and then mixing the files down to matched volumes.
Regarding the low end, that's one of the biggest 2 differences i hear between the mics. I would say the TLM 103 has almost another octave compared to the 102. Listen to the kick drum tests on good speakers or headphones- the 103 reaches much farther down than the 102. Depending on what you're recording this can be either a good or bad thing, as i actually liked the 102 better on piano and guitar due to the focused midrange and less low end.
I think i'll do a video explaining how i do the mic tests in a little bit more detail. Thanks for watching and let me know if you have any more questions!
They have slightly different voicing and work well for different things, 103 is top notch on female or high pitch male vocals where as the 102 works for deeper male vocals.
Again I like the 102 on acoustic guitars and kick drums. The 103 is just a bit more well defined but the 102 is a steal to get in to the Neumann sound.
Hey friend, thanks so much for watching and taking time to leave a comment. I agree! The 103 has a little bit extra presence in the high-end. Hope life and music are treating you well, stay safe and healthy.
Crazy, this is the first comparison that I can actually hear the difference between the two mics in the spoken part before the singing. The 102 sounds a bit darker, and also audible in the piano's chords. The other instruments sounded identical except the individual drum pieces where I thought the 102 sounded better
The depth and smoothness were better in the 103 in all cases. Nice!
Hey Andrew! Thank you so much for taking the time to watch and comment. The 103 seems to get a lot of undeserved hate on internet forums, personally I love it and the 102 as well.
By the way checked out your channel and the Civil Wars cover is gorgeous! Beautifully done. Also how do you like the Burl B2?
Tom Szy Music Agreed! And hey, thanks for the kind words :) I sold the Burl bc of finances, using an API A2D now, but the Burl was incredible!
@@drewsleyy3836 The 103 is definitely the more open and musical mic. The 102 is a bit more natural sounding, though.
I don't see a link in the description.
please tell me I have a poorly prepared room, but I do not like the sharpness, harsh sound of midrange 102, or is it corrected by the equalizer, as 103 behaves in not ideal conditions? .
102 is better for me, love this natural liveness sound!
Hello friend, thank you so much for taking the time to watch and leave a comment! I'm glad the 102 is sounding good to you, a great bang for the buck for sure. Hope you're staying safe and healthy.
really good test. how did the piano play? i didn't even see the hammers move.
Thank you so much for watching! It was so darn cold in the studio this day as it's in our garage and I don't keep it heated when I'm not using it... believe it or not the piano sounded fine to my ears and the action of it wasn't affected... My hands on the other hand were quite stiff and numb from the cold! But thank you again for watching and the comment, hope to see you in future videos!
Curious how close the 102 would sound to the 103 with the windscreen on it to help tone down the sibilances. The frequencies are very close from the mid-range and lower it's the top end that changes with the 102.
You are not the only person to mention something about the meshes and wind screens in front of the mics and messing with them. I would be curious as well! Thanks for watching and commenting
If I see the price and the product catalog, I like the 103 model, but if only heard the sound, I like TLM 102 much more! I like that natural sound without the enhance in medium high frecuencies, the TLM 103 sound harsh to me sometimes, the 102 never sounds that way
I think you misrepresented the 102 on the vocal shootout (in maybe mic placement). I've recorded on both for a year each and the 103 was without a doubt brighter/more sibilant, this test suggests the reverse. The published frequency responses also match my experiences. Do you have a photograph of the talent in front of each mic performing?
Thanks for watching and the comment. I went back and relistened to the video and it seems the youtube algorhythm distorted the high frequencies on spoken vox a bit- i even made the video in fincal cut pro with WAV files/uncompressed audio mixed in with video. To me when i was doing this test i remember thinking just what you said- the 103 has more/brighter high end and the 102 is darker/warmer. I think what is happening is this- the 103 records with more apparent high end frequencies BUT less distortion in those high frequencies and the 102 records with less apparent high end frequencies BUT more distortion present in the high frequency spectrum. Then the youtube encoding compression exacerbates the distortion and makes it appear like high frequency content. I remember back when MP3's first came out- i almost thought 128kbps sounded BETTER than wav files ripped from the same CD- but then i realized the 128k mp3's were distorting/compressing the high frequencies giving them more apparent high end than the wav files- and it was really just HF distortion. Notice how when listening to the spoken vocal passages the 103 sounds more clear and natural- i think that's less distortion present with a better capsule/design.
In terms of mic placement- it was exactly as pictured for the vocal section- mics placed end to end less than 1" apart- and the same performance was recorded simultaneously on both mics. My space is extremely well treated and the mics were as close as physically possible together- there's no discrepancy from mic placement. Each sound source had the mics end to end with capsules as close as physically possible.
Anyway thanks for watching and the comment!
“youtube algorhythm” Heh!
great demo. i thought the 103 sounded better on more sources, but the 102 sounded better on some. so maybe get the 103 first and then get the 102 later as part of a larger microphne collection.
Thank you so much for watching and the kind words. For me if vocals are the most important and frequent thing you are recording I would say 103. If you're also doing a lot of acoustic instruments I would say the 102. But you really can't go wrong with either one. Everybody's ears hear and prefer different things! Hope you are safe and healthy in this crazy world.
Sounds like the 102 has less bottom. Nothing too bad. A bit flatter on the bottom, the high end a little less present, but a bit clearer. Nothing a bit of processing can help with if you are looking to achieve the same sound as the 103. The 102 sounds like a proper starting point. Less accentuated, flatter to me, still cleaner.
Voice: 103 sounded a lot better with your type of voice, day and night difference
Singing: actually liked the 102 better here, little less harsh
Piano: I guess it comes down to what you're looking for, no clear winner for me
Guitar: 102 sounds better here in my opinion, less harshness
Drum Overhead: 103 has way too much low frequency for my taste, prefer 102
Bass Drum: both fine
Snare: 103 sound a bit too muffled, prefer 102
Hihat: both fine
Btw I own a 102 ;)
Thanks for the comparison
any way at all you can do JUST toms? i have a big kit to mic, was wondering if it was worth the loot to do 103s on 4 out of 6 toms?..... 102s sound sludgy, did you do any actual freq anaylisis? Thanks!!!
Hello friend! Thanks so very much for stopping by. Unfortunately I don't have these mics at the moment to do such a comparison- I wish I had the money to keep all the gear I test, but unfortunately I don't.
But my ears align with yours- the 103 has more clarity and transient punch than the 102. But unless money is of no consequence, I wouldn't spend that much on 103's for toms. There is an amazing but cost effective LDC that sounds great on toms, and if you accidentally hit one you won't feel as nervous about the money you spend on it. CAD m179- can be had for $185 new at most online retailers, and even less used. Amazing punch and clarity on toms, and just sounds "right" for the instrument.
That would be my recommendation, and overall a very useful utility/cost effective mic to have around.
Hope this is in some way helpful ,thanks so much for stopping by and listening, let me know if you have any other questions! Stay safe and healthy!
for vocals in a mix, 103 hand down. For a Solo vocal performance with an acoustic guitar, either mic. For Acoustic guitars 103. De-ess your vocals with the 103 in post and you are set. (I have owned the 103, and sold it..I think I miss that mic now..)
Sorry for the belated response but thank you for watching and the comment! I agree about the 103, really all it needs is de essing and a little compression and you are set. Don't need to add much high-end air eq or filter out muddy low mids, very great sound straight from the mic.
did you take the inner foam out of tlm berlin 102?
Would like to see a comparison with the TLM102’s internal windscreen removed.
Hello friend and thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! I unfortunately don't have enough money to keep all the gear I shoot out and review, but if I can get my hands on a tlm-102 again I will see if I can make that happen! Blessings to you and hope you're having a safe and healthy new year so far!
@@tomszymusic Yes, that would be great and certainly help in making a decision.
And you! I wish you a blessed and peaceful year ahead.
Coming back to this almost a year later, this is a very well made comparison. In this shootout, I definitely prefer the TLM 103. It has a more natural mid-range presence and a pronounced low-range; whilst the TLM 102 sounds a bit more post-eq hifi with a boost somewhere in the 2K region. I don’t like that.
Still looking forward to that windshield-less comparison if you get the chance.
Edit: Hope you’ve been well.
Thanks for this video an your effort! You have really a nice voice - but besides You should check the tune of your piano ...!
You are very welcome, thanks for watching and kind words. It was super cold that day in the studio, I can't afford to heat it when I'm not in it! Probably affected the tune of the piano a bit, but it also does need a good tuning!
There is no link in the description.
just bought 103 for the price of a 102. 675 euro. Couldn't be happier, the 103 sounds more balanced and has a beautiful depth all the frequencies.
Awesome! So glad to hear you were able to land one at a good price and you're enjoying its sound. The 103 is an underrated microphone in my opinion! Thanks for commenting and watching and hope you are staying safe and healthy in this crazy world.
Can someone answer me what the differences are between tlm 103 / tlm 103 studio set / tlm 103 mono set. Thanks, these are the three different possibilities on Thomann's Music website and I didn't know why each one got progressively more expensive.
Just the included accessories. Same mic.
I have the TLM 102 (only used for rap vocals) but I have very sharp esses, do you think that would just get worse with 103?.. or any tips in general what to do about it before the mixing process??
Hey friend, thanks for watching and the question. Both the 102 and 103 are prone to sibilance (sharp esses/t's/consonants) as are most condenser's with presence in the upper midrange/top end. I still like the tone/timbre of the 103 better on vocals. In the recording stage- to remedy this, perhaps some pop filters may help a tiny bit. Also try positioning the mic at about the level of your nose, stand back a little further and angle it slightly down toward your mouth. I think the best remedy for this IS in the mixing stage using a de-esser. Any major DAW (logic, cubase, studio one, reaper, etc) has them as built in plugins, and you can also find free ones for download. Sometimes if the esses are especially sharp/harsh, putting 2-3 instances of a de-esser on top of the vocals in a row can help, but keep the settings mild on each. So the de-esser plugin should show how much sibilance it's removing (like gain reduction on a compressor)- and it can sound more natural to have 2-3 de-esser's removing some harshness than 1 de-esser removing a lot. 1 de-esser pushed hard can sound unnatural and start to distort and almost make a "lisp" sound with s and t consonants. Hopefully this is helpful? Let me know. Thanks for watching and I hope you are safe/healthy wherever you are in this crazy world right now!
@@tomszymusic Thanks a lot for a detailed answer, I've already tried angling the mic that way before, didn't help. If I stand further away I feel like I get a little too much of my room, currently doing research and planning for better acoustic treatment than I have now.
I already have a pop filter but do you mean try putting a 2nd pop filter up? I'll definitely try the 3 de-essers in a row tip, tried 2 before but never 3.
just get out the center of the mic (103)...most mics the sweet spot is dead in the center for the 103 i dont find that to be true which isnt a bad thing just an adjusment that has to be made for.
In terms of vocals and piano the 103 is a clear winner by a mile. But for the other tests I am not so sure as just a minimal difference of placement could make quite a difference, no?
Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to stop by and leave a comment! Some tests the differences are more apparent than others. I aligned the microphones end-to-end, capsule to capsule as close as physically possible for each test, so they are maybe an inch or so apart. That could certainly account for some difference in the sound. But in my opinion I prefer to run a test that way in order to have the constant / control that you are hearing the exact same take / sound source recorded simultaneously by each microphone. To me that eliminates more variability then trying to put one microphone in the exact same position as another, and try to replay or re speak or sing something in exactly the same manner. But that's just my thoughts on everything, whether they are right or not! But I certainly appreciate you taking the time to stop by and listen and leave a comment, I hope you stay safe and healthy in this crazy world!
102 is the winner. really great mic.
Thanks for watching and your opinion. Each has a bit different tonality and it's really just a matter of which one you like. It's a cheaper option so if you like the 102 better that's even better! Thanks again for watching
not even close
i wonder if you give the 102 a db boost of presence how different would they sound what do you think?
Hello, and thank you for watching and commenting. A very interesting question for sure. I also hear a little bit more on the low end with the 103, especially if you listen to the kick drum. So perhaps with a little high and low shelf The 102 could sound quite similar to the 103.
I've always thought it would be an interesting experiment to get a really high-end microphone like a u-87, and something very budget-friendly like a rode nt1a or Audio-Technica mic, and just try to eq the cheaper to match the more expensive one and see how close you could get. If I could ever get my hands on a u-87, I'll do it!
@@tomszymusic cool and tthanks for the reply
102 , check!
👍
The 103 has more presence, the 102 has less color and is more neutral
Definitely more presence on the 103, there's a little more shine up top and a little more oomph down below on the 103. But each complement each other well! Thanks again for watching!
I feel like the 102 definitely doesn't sound neutral at least to my ears, I feel if anything the TLM 102 has a processed sound if you could call it that. Although the 103 does have the extra presence I do feel that that picks up the instruments in a more natural way. But I feel like both mics are great but it sounds to me like they were made to different philosophies. If I would exaggerate I'd say the TLM 102 sound more like a dynamic on vocals while the TLM103 sounds more like a condenser to me. (not to say that the TLM 102 sound like a dynamic) But these are just my two cents!
Take foam out. Boom save 300 dollars. Easy Peezy
@@nicholaskent1011 Are you just talking about removing problem frequencies in EQ-ing when you say foam??
@@nwilt7114 No, if you unscrew the silver ring there is literally a foam piece inside you can remove and then it sounds just like a 103. Just put a pop filter in front of it. boom
Interesting. There was much more difference than I expected, though it varied by application. Some applications seemed like there was a very large difference (like the vocals and acoustic guitar); others, very little (kick drum). In virtually every application where there *was* a noticeable difference, I thought the 103 sounded more uncolored/natural. Great shootout.
Hey David! Thanks for watching and commenting. Yeah the tlm103 is def. a great choice in that price range- I especially though the biggest difference and the clearest winner was the 103 on vocals. Yeah, these shoot outs and tests i'm doing are really informative for me as well- i'm learning much about gear, their sonic signatures, things each mic excels at, and i've stumled across some really good mic positions to remember (and bad ones to avoid as well!)
Thanks again for watching! Just finished recording the audio for 2 preamp comparisons- will be getting the completed videos up soon!
Tom Szy Music: Oh, that (preamp shoot-out) should be *very* interesting! Looking forward to it.
The 102 is brighter than the 103 ? Sometimes in this video the 103 sounds brighter and vice versa. The mid range response definitely sounds different between the two
Hi Paul! Thanks so much for stopping by and taking the time to watch and leave a comment. I think it depends how you define the word bright. It could either mean the uppermost treble frequencies or it could mean the upper mid-range frequencies. Depending on the Sound Source, the 102 seems to have a bit more push in some of the mid-range, while in general the 103 I think seems to have more in terms of the top end of the frequency spectrum. In my opinion that's probably accounting for the differences you are hearing, as each Sound Source has different frequencies present. Thanks again for stopping by and taking the time to watch, stay safe and healthy!
Neumann TLM 102 звучит шикарно, с учётом своей цены по отношению к старшему брату. Его и брать.
Thanks for watching! I had to plug you comment into google translator and it seems like you were saying: the TLM 102 sounds gorgeous, taking into account it's price relative to its older brother.
If this is what you were saying- yes! I agree very much so. Even the cheapest Neumann sounds amazing- great bang for the buck.
Thanks again!
Tlm 102 sounds a lot harsher ? It’s more sensitive to vocal sibilants, it sounds like ..
Hello friend, thank you for taking the time to watch and stop by and leave a comment. I would definitely agree in that the 103 has a more smooth and polished sound to it than the 102. The 102 definitely seems to have a bit of a bump or aggression in the mid-range that is not present in the 103.
I hope this video has been helpful, and I hope you are staying safe and healthy in this crazy world right now!
Here's my thing... I feel like, with minimal EQ, you could make these samples to sound identical. Do you agree? Otherwise, 102 has a little more sizzle and the 103 is a bit more dark. Hardly worth a $450 difference. That's why I bought the 102.
I think 102 or 103 both is better...
decent test but mic placement makes a huuuge difference in tone even with how close they were.
Hey friend, thanks for stopping by and listening! Mic placement is always key, it can make a u-87 sound horrendous. In this test the microphone capsules were aligned as closely as physically possible end-to-end, and you are hearing the same take on both microphones, so as many variables were eliminated as possible. Take care, stay safe, and hope to see you again
Great comparison, thanks! But please tune the guitar a little better...for next time? :P
The 103 is what you hear at the gates of heaven
Hello friend and thank you for watching! That is certainly some high praise! It is definitely a lovely microphone. Hope all is well with you in life and music!
To everyone who thinks the the microphones sound the same:
The only way you will easily hear the difference, is on either studio monitors or using high end or mastering headphones. If expecting to hear much difference on your phone, tablet, laptop, TV, or any other device which has generic (cheap) audio output... you are wasting your time. But the difference is noticeable, and on the correct equipment, one sounds more bright and forward, while the other sounds more smooth, warm, and natural.
I can hear the difference on my cellphone. 103 has more of a dip in the mids giving a percieved spike in the highs.
The 102 have better time for vocals in my opinion
103 on everything but guitars, man..102 forever.
First time I found out how good the 102 sounds on guitars was when my sm57 was on a secondary guitsr cabinet and the Neumann was my only choice for a high gain amp (ENGLpowerball2 into ENGL 4x12Pro, with a ISA ONE pre) and now it's my go-to for distorted guitars. It has such controlled mids, it's incredible.
Yesterday I managed to remove the foam inside the capsule (the only reason they got it in is because this mic was intended for broadcasting as well, without pop filters) and I have to test if I like the mod on guitar amps, but I'm expecting vocals and acoustic instruments to translate even better (going through a Neve1073 unison ApolloX emulation since I've sold the ISA).
Nice video!
Edit: would trade my 102 anytime for a 103, since vocals are always the main focus and there are so many choices for guitar amps)
Hello and thank you so much for watching and your comments. Yeah, I agree, there is just something about the mid-range on the 102, I preferred it on both piano and guitar. You and I have similar preferences/ taste as I also prefer the 103 on most other things, especially the voice. Vocals just seem to be pre equalized and very balanced going through the 103 with not much EQ work to do afterwards aside from a deesser. And also very interesting about removing the foam to open things up a bit more
But if budget allows obviously both would-be killer and you have most of your bases covered! Thanks again so much for watching and the comment, hope to see you on other videos
Also, how are you liking the uad Unison preamp thing? It's a rabbit hole I haven't jumped down but am considering in the future
I recently purchased the 102 and the apollo twin mkii solo. I'm using Neve 1073 preamp, 1176LN, LA2A and the 102 sounds amazing! And I did remove the foam but thought about putting it back but now I know it's just for those using it for broadcasting or voice overs were pop filters aren't commonly used. Thanks guys, as this has been very helpful
Seems like the 102 is a tad bit darker.
Hello and thank you for watching and the comment, and I agree. The 102 does seem to be a little bit darker with a little less top-end and a little more mid-range body to it. Your ears and mine seem to be in alignment here! Thanks again and hope to see you in future videos
102 is a bargain.
Thanks for watching and the comment, it is a lot of great sound for relatively little money! Great all around option for home studios. Thanks again.
TLM 103 wins and specially for vocals
Hello friend and thanks for watching! I agree- i like the 103 better on vocals as well. I still like the 102 a little better on piano/guitar- but it's close! Can't go wrong with a 103 for sure. Thanks for watching/commenting and I hope you are safe wherever you are in this crazy world right now!
two labels for the same mic :-)
Neumann is Neumann
It is! And even the most affordable, the 102, sounds great! Thanks for watching
Neumann is Sennheiser. Ftfy.
@@psilohsaibin9916 haha
103 gets my vote. it sounds a little richer....more ethereal?
Hello friend! Thank you for watching and contributing the comment. I definitely agree with what you are saying... There is more extended high and low end with the 103 and a more Angelic / Airy sound to it overall. It's just a fantastic Mike for the money, especially if you decide to buy it on the used Market. Anyhow, thank you again, best of luck with musical Endeavors and truly hope to see you again in future videos!
Tlm 103 sounds a little compressed though clearer and a bit more detailed
Thanks so much for stopping by and commenting I really appreciate your thoughts!
Which one is best for vocals?
Hello and thanks for watching! One answer can be: whichever one sounds best on your voice, which can be different from male to female, vocal register, singing type, and type of recording sound desired. Aside from hearing these yourself, I really like tlm103 better on vocals. This includes both spoken and singing vocals- the 103 really just suits my voice well. There's more clarity to the sound with the 103, where as the 102 sounds just a bit muffled to me. So between the 2, if vocals are your main concern, i'd say the 103 is better. In this comparison though i actually liked the 102 better on both the acoustic guitar and the piano...but if vocals is your main application i'd say the 103 is the way to go. Let me know if you have any other questions!
Everyone is saying the 103 is far better then the 102 and the 102 is very similar to 103, it is a little better but in no way far better they both are great microphones you can’t go wrong with either one, you can make hits off either one of these microphones, a Neumann is a Neumann= QUALITY!!!!
There are some mixed opinions here, and although some people do seem to favor the 103 over the 102, the 102 has its fair share of supporters as well. I like the 102 better on the piano and guitar, for that nice mid-range presence to cut through on instruments.
Definitely not a huge difference, but it's audible. But I agree, you can make excellent recordings with either one, and both are incredibly high quality, and under $1,000 , especially if you buy them on the used market.
Thanks for watching and the comments, hope to see you on future videos my friend!
Tom Szy Music You definitely will and keep doing what you’re doing you’re making great videos and I have the 102 by the way and I love it
Hi, greetings from Bangladesh! Thanks for this video! We do produce children's music. Which model would better for us? Appreciate your kind response. Kind regards.
TLM 2 sounds more soft and nice
I would agree with you that the 102 has more of a warmer sound to it, the 103 has more pronounced high frequencies. Thanks for stopping by and your thoughts and watching. Stay safe and healthy!
@@tomszymusic thanks 🙏🏽
TLM3 sounds distorted
I think the 103 sounded better on the drums.
They sound so close... even now that we hear the sound of each mic with only seconds between them and there is no difference or it is so minor its not even worth mentioning. In my opinion there is no reason to spend 400€ more for 103.
Thanks for watching and the comments, they are fairly close- on better headphones and speakers I can still hear a difference more on some sources than others, but they are still both very high quality and Neumann sound for relatively little money! Thanks again and hope to see you in other videos!
welp, they sure do have a noticable difference. The 103 is way more present, warmer and has more on high and low ends from what I can hear. Needless to say that the 102 is also an amazing pick! I'll probably get the 103 this month tho^^
reverse.. cheaper on bttom,, retest the capture
Hmmmm, I thought the 102 sounded better on vocals, but the 103 is better recording instruments
Hello friend, thank you for taking the time to watch and comment. That's the beauty of all of this, no two ears hear things alike! For me it's the opposite but that's okay, our records won't sound the same then 😉
102 seems clearer and therefore better in my estimation?
Thank you for stopping by, interesting thoughts! I appreciate you taking the time to watch and leave a comment. I would say overall the 102 has a bit more in the mid range so that could fall in line with what you are saying. Hope you are staying safe and healthy, have a great holiday!
@@tomszymusic Could be. Thanks, Happy Holidays to you as well. My ears seem to be telling me that the Audio Technica AT2020 gives the Nuemanns a run for their money as well 🤔
@@MrGilMoNayO You're trolling, right?
@@TheZeroSbr 4:45
Would’ve been great if you sang Lil Mermaid - A Whole New World
I'll put it on the list for the next mic shootout 😉
You know what I should have caught this when you first said this, because my daughter is 4 years old- and I should know this stuff. A whole new world was Aladdin, not The Little Mermaid!
TLM 103: bigger, warmer, smoother, pleasant... balanced !
TLM102: thin, dull , lifeless... muddy! unbalanced
Hey Jennifer! Thanks so much for watching and taking the time to comment. The microphones are definitely voiced a bit differently, and I agree the 103 has a bit more of a polished finished sound. Thanks again and hope all is well with life and music!
102. It's got more substance. Then you take the foam out like @kidofthenineties suggested. It's better than the 103 and cheaper. HAHA jokes on you guys. We got a 102 and a 103 two for one deal. You want it to sound like a 102? No problem, let me put this foam back and BOOM! like magic.
Hey Nicholas, glad the 102 is working for you! Both are great mics. Plus you could get like five or six 102s for the price of one 87! Stay safe and healthy
Sandar
Sandar?
thank you for this video ,, it is really helpful , and i wish your help in choosing one ,, in your opinion which one is better to buy for recording of Holy Book Quran , just words NOT MUSIC , i am using iMac 2019 and apogee element 24 thunderbolt audio interface , thanks
Hello, and thank you for the kind words. I would say if you have the budget And you are only recording speech, then I would go with the tlm 103. To my ears it just has a better presence and clarity and overall tonality in terms of vocals.
@@tomszymusic ok thanks i will buy it
🤠 If you had an audio interface that has the "4K" or "AIR" button, the TLM102 would probably be the better mic.
Which is better for rap music
Thanks so much for watching in the comment! If you were doing hip hop vocals I would probably recommend the 103, it has a little bit more extended high end and bottom-end in the frequency spectrum, and probably would require less mixing and EQing. Either would work but the 103 is probably closer to the end sound. Thanks again and let me know if you have any other questions!
El 102 para tu voz es mejor.
Hello and thank you for the comment! Interesting in that you prefer the 102- thank you for the input! The mid-range seems a bit Fuller to me on the 102 and depending on the style and song could definitely fit better, thanks again for watching!