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you missed the part, where a lot of the northern group returned to the mountains, because of the exhaustion and the sun, while the uruk-hais were not effected and run further, thereby leaving a lot of these orcs behind. This happens in the film of screen in the cut of these 2 rests of the orc-host. Additional the movie is in that sense canonical, that in both cases boromir was not killed at the capture of the hobbits, but no longer able to react to the capture by arrows. Some areas of the scene are closer to the books including the lack to show the uncertainty of his death as hopeful thinking, because they didn't saw him get killed, but he was surrounded by Orcs. Pippin is not a fool, he is wishing unrealistic things, because he has such a mindset. Additional a lot of this chapter brings up contradictions, like the large amount of humans in Saruman's army, while the orcs apparently eat human meat.This was not shown in the movie. In the book this was possible to explain with the simple reality, that orcs, goblins and similar creatures from melkhor and etc. etc. are not really a society or race, but simply ONLY a perversion of life. In this narrative the cannibalistic tendency of orcs is just a critic to modern dehumanized, because denaturalized, humans. modern socieity is eating itself. We see a similar warping of natural order of live in the shire by Saruman later with rules, quotes and oppression and the example of the idiot hobbit in the "new" mill embracing these changes is a critic about such a mindset, that corrupts common existence and calls it outdated to erase it. Evil doesn't creates, it corrupts. Orcs are not created and Saruman didn't created the Uruk-Hai, he perverted existent beings to make Uruks "better". In the same sense Orcs in general were the attempt of an evil god-like being to pervert existent being to make them his own creation and FAILING. Orcs failed to be created and became twisted evil beings. This is one of the major themes of the whole book.
@@apollomars1678 Are you sure about the Northerners returning to the Misty Mountains? My recollection is that they tried to break away but were forced back to the main body.
@@richardwales9674 i have sadly only the german version, because i am german, but after the paragraph about the orc-drink you got a paragraph about northern orks wanting to break free and getting force dinto ranks. (you talk about this stuff i presume) After this paragraph there is a discussion about heading east or south and Uklúk is complaining, that it is again an issue to be resolved by the Uruk-hai, because they would fear the Rohirim, so Ukluk is even encouraging them mockingly to run, run to the woods, that would be their best chances etc. etc. So most of the northern orcs turned around , over 100 men, and run along the river as fast as possible into the direction of the mountains. Grischnach used this departure to reappear with his 40 men and in the following fleeing from the Rohirim the Uruks and Uruk-hai were able to overtake the northern orks, because the Rohirim gathered the orcs together to kill them in one battle and by the weakness of northern ork knees under the sun it has no consequences, that they broke from the main host of orcs. So the departure happens later and without consequences, because Ukluk group had to run for the forest => mountains in fear of the Rohirim too.
No they do not. The movies were already too long. All those hours and the final battle is against gollum. Very anticlimatic and didn't leave an impact on me. Then again it's an old book and maybe the concept of decent climaxes didn't exist back then.
The wide angle of the Uruk-Hai running through the canyons was filmed in the South Island. When they recorded the dialogue, they re-created the canyon in studio in Wellington. I was one of the Uruk-Hai for the studio shot and the detail on the canyon walls was incredible. On the back of them, you have all the supports and scaffolding, but in the fake canyon, it's like you really were in the actual canyon. Absolutely incredible detail.
I'm always pleasantly surprised how many of the extras/workers from the movies pop up in the comments of these LOTR channels/videos. On one video I watched, the guy who was Viggo's body double for Aragorn participated and told stories about the production!
I don't think Merry was faking being hurt in the movie. I think he *was* hurt, but was trying to spare Pippin the worry. "Nah, I'm faking... see, I even fooled you" was just Merry being lighthearted about his situation. Pippin clearly saw through this and sincerely called for help from the Uruks. He was not participating in a deception.
In the book, Merry got knocked out when he fought the orcs, leaving him wounded; but they gave him some medicine that FIXED it but left him scarred. The orc-liquor also make them feel better. The orcs also fed the hobbits some bread and meat. Also they did NOT want to eat the hobbits, and they NEVER ate each other. This was a scene of the harsh conditions that the orcs lived with, and wasn't well-shown by the film.
Cool and reasonable. In the books, it appears Boromir killed at least 20 Uruks himself, while being surrounded, trying to protect the hobbits, imagine how many more he would have slain if he hadn't been killed by the arrows. If I were a Uruk, I would also called him a great warrior.
@@luisrods ofc ik, i never thought something else, i just want to point out that it was really great from tolkien to actually write it down from thier perspective
That was Ugluk, who was very honorable and loyal for an orc; but he was also BOASTING about killing Boromir... after all, Denethor said that Bormir could have killed ALL the orcs, and he only died by trying to save the hobbits to redeem himself for betraying Frodo. Meanwhile while Grishak was a traitor to Sauron, and tried to steal the Ring-- which the movie didn't even get, since Merry and Pippin were able to trick him into helping them escape.
Yeah, they only look good when your guy’s attention spans/iq’s are horrible. And they look, act, and sound like brutes. They even have generic Cockney accents, which Tolkien never said that they did in his letters, either. Also psychological horror filmmakers, like Tony Kaye, or John Carpenter, should adapt the films, and make the Orcs look like ‘The X-Files’ demons, and obscure them, just like in the show, and make them wear prehistoric chainmail armor.
@@saberhamlinconmaverickknud4821 orcs in the books have Cockney accents. period. Technically none of the words in the books are correct due everyone using different languages and even names. And they look fine. There is nothing wrong with the look of the orcs in the movies they do not need to look like "X-files" demons." Lord of the Rings is not "psychological horror"
@@davids9324 interesting question as they'd be degenerate in a way. They'd speak a common language with a learned accent but the way back "original" should resemble north eastern Europe. We'd recognize it as Ural or even russian.
Props to Pip. One of the saddest parts about cutting the Scouring of The Shire is that we don't see the glory of Merry and Pippin as bad ass leaders and stout hearted fighters. The Hobbits truly "grow up" and aren't just anecdotes, oddities, or ancillary. By the end, they are to be counted among all free folk, by all.
the problem with the scouring of the shire for a movie is that you already beat the big bad. the movie is already 4 hours long and adding an entire 4th act, after the big world ending thread is already eliminated, just makes no sense.
That all depends on how we perceive the world, @@tommerker8063 , and how soldiers who fought in World War I felt coming home, only to realise that the society they had left behind had changed. The same could eventually be said for all war veterans pretty much. Tolkien caught trench fever while on active service, but didn't see the same kind of action at the Somme, where he lost some of his friends. There's quite some symbolism with regards to how he feels about "industry" and the harm it does to "nature" (Hobbits liking nothing more complicated than a windmill or watermill, and the destruction of the land that he saw in Flanders is reflected in Isengard, Mordor and so on. The Scouring of The Shire had its rightful place as such, but was deemed as too time-consuming unfortunately.
The Uruk smelling man-flesh was movie only although Ugluk did talk about the 'cursed horse-boys' getting wind of them. Peter Jackson implies it was Aragorn but this is impossible as the three companions were nearly a day behind. It would make more sense to smell the Rohirrim pursuing them rather than one Ranger.
Plus if it were Aragorn they smelled, wouldn't they also have mentioned smelling an Elf and Dwarf 🤷 it's unlogical to make them focus on just one of the three smells, where all three smells would've been as strong and mixed together on the way to the uruks.
@@keto8354 Oh yes that's absolutely true. Knowing how he and appeared in the book, the conversations etc. I'm just only sad that we didn't get more, because heck, even their appearance, voices and the acting is outstanding, so seeing more of the Uruk boys like this would have been candy for my eyes and eyes. Yes, a weird candy, but a candy nevertheless, haha.
Almost the complete casting is an abomination... Elrond is the likely the worst Yet all in line with Amazon 😉 Sauron is perhaps the best cast, as is his story-arc
The orc draught was a mixture of peach ice tea, glycerine and sodastream cola concentrate. According to Dominic Monaghan, who plays Merry, he said it "couldn't get anymore sticky, like the liquid glue". The first take Merry's vomit was acting but the second take it was Dom actually throwing up as he remembered how disgusting the "orc draught" was from the take before. Peter Jackson told the Uruk actors to just keep pour more into him and make sure he projects a vomit in front of the camera.
@@ContraltissimoBut there are plenty of ways to get the visual effect of vomitting without actually making the actors sick. Luckily that probably wouldn't fly with union rules nowadays
Grishnakh got done dirty. In the book, it's pretty heavily implied that he's a lot more important than he's letting on (enough so that he gets an airlift across the Anduin by Nazgul!), and he seems to be the only Orc in any of the three groups who fully understands *why* their masters want to capture the Hobbits. From a broader storytelling perspective, Grishnakh's presence is a reminder that the eye of Sauron is still upon the Fellowship. ...and in the movie, he's just a thug who wants to 'drill maggot-holes in yer belly'.
of course Grishnakh in the PJ movies is NOT from Mordor he is from Isengaurd. None of the Orcs in TTT who were in Rohan came from anywhere else. I just like to think that Grishnakh in the books looked and sounded like the one in the movie (but was ALOT smarter and very very well informed- which makes him far more scary i think)
@@keithtorgersen9664 It strikes me that it's possible for a clever person to have less than perfect knowledge about about specific very arcane artefacts. If not knowing the ring will betray you makes you a fool, that makes the overwhelming majority of Middle Earth's population fools.
I just wish the movies explained the timeline. Most people who have never read the books and have only seen the movies seem to think the entire trilogy took place in a short space of time and not over the course of a number of years.
@secondchance6603, yes the first chapter took place over a span of 17 years, but once Frodo set out from Hobbiton it was only a 6 month journey and 3 of those months were resting at Rivendell and Lothlorien
I actually completely agree with you. I also miss this deep dive into orcish social behavior, and - of course - Pippin's heroism and development. But I think Peter Jackson usually has a tremendously professional sense of when to rationalize scenes and when to develop them, all for the medium of film. Here I think he does exactly the right thing, except that I would have liked to have seen riders of Rohan pursue the orcs, instead of the surprise attack. But there are small details that I can buy. Thanks again for a very good analysis!
Grishnakh in the books is the closest we get to see of a clever Orc. Wish we could have seen more of his character in the movie, although in the Bakshi version a bit more of his character was portrayed correctly
One of the dirty sales tricks of Amazon with their recent HILARIOUS TV-series, was to "make the orcs dangerous again" - as though Jackson's adaptation had made the orcs laughable.
Fun fact, the "Orc Drink" is actually an evil version of Miruvor. While it hurts to drink (to Free Peoples at least) and takes some of your overall 'essence' away, it does strengthen you and gives you the energy to go on.
@@ThePariahDark Would be funny if Saruman saw Red Bull as beneath him, only the finest of Monster Energy drink is good enough for him (and his closest mannish underlings).
It was not that hard to understand. When Saruman went burning trees, Sauron sent him orcs to do it. But Saruman made better orcs by another cross-breeding - Uruks while Sauron orcs still helped him but were still loyal to Sauron instead. There is also scene where Lurtz murders the orc, a scene when orcs arrive to Isengard. I was a kid when I first saw it and I didn't remember all the stuff from the book but that distinction between orcs, uruks and moria orcs (goblins) was made very clear not only by visual aspects but also scenes. Visual artists and of course Peter Jackson did a superb job.
@@MrChickennugget360 Huh? I just watched the Extended Edition last weekend, distinctly remember an Uruk-Hai complaining that he wouldn't take lip from a "Mordor orc" and killing him.
The movie did not follow the book very well; for example, SARUMAN was supposed to be the story's main villain, not Sauron, who was just a criminal that Saruman was charged with defeating; but Saruman became obsessed with the Ring, and so wanted it for himself-- and so he betrayed Gandalf and all the rest, in order to join with Sauron to try to get the Ring. In the movie, he just wants Sauron to have the Ring, since nobody ELSE can USE it in the film!
All this is why i urge people to read the books. I have taken an example in Sir Christopher Lee and do read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings once a year. I love it.
This part of the books are my favourite for a very specific reason. When you read about Frodo and Sam, the writing is constructed to be slow and harder to read, representing their difficulty and slow pace. Contrarily, the chase is written so it is easy and fast to read representing the speed and excitement of the pursuit. Such an amazing mastery of writing.
Also misinterpreted. In the book, Ugluk gives Merry some painful ointment that cures his wound, apparently it's iodine or some other orc-medicine, but the other orcs are amused because it's the same medicine they get. Meanwhile the orc-drink gives the hobbits strength and endurance; it's not for wounds and it doesn't make them sick. It's essentially amphetamines, like was giving to soldiers in WWI.
I just finished this chapter. I love how the orcs and uruks are portrayed not as mindless brutes but far more human: controlled by fear and a dreadful understanding that orders are orders and there is nothing they can do. They are the embodiment of the hopeless military dreg
Well they used to be Elves; so they can't be good, just like Elves can't choose to be evil, but can only be corrupted. Only humans have that choice, because of their mortality; this was the story's main point, which was utterly ruined in the film's misanthropic myopathy.
I personally feel that Jackson’s decision to cut the song “Where There’s a Whip There’s A Way”, actually written by Tolkien himself, to be the biggest departure from the books.
Actually it was written by Glenn Yarborough for the cheesy 1980 animated film. And it definitely had a lot of post-Vietnam anti-war sentiment in it. I don't hate the song. I think it's funny as hell. But I'm also recognizing what it is.
It’s interesting to me that you interpreted the scene between the orcs and uruks in the movie as two groups under Saruman’s orders fighting for credit. I don’t know if this was born out of having read the books, but I always assumed that when Grishnahk said “Our master,” he was referring to Sauron. In other words, I always assumed the uruks were Saruman’s and the orcs were Sauron’s.
I think it can easily seen both ways. Growing up I saw the movies before I read the books. And since Saruman was the only bad guy really shown in depth in the first film, my young mind assumed the orcs were his. Especially since with the way Jackson portrays it, the orcs kind of inspected and managed the Uruk hai on Saruman’s behalf. In all the Saruman scenes, the orcs are the supervisors and the Uruk hai are the brutes. Of course as I grew up and read the books I understood Jackson was portraying Sauron‘s orcs.
@@factorfantasyweekly to be fair, I watched the movies before I read the books; but I was too young to make that connection. I didn’t *really* fall in love with the movies until I was around fifteen/sixteen. (I first watched the movies when I was thirteen or so.) By that time, I had already read the books.
@@factorfantasyweekly Yeah and the fact that when Sam and Frodo escape the spider there are a mix of orcs and uruk hai together far away from Saruman...I thought growing up Saruman was controlling both on behalf on Suuron
Well, we know that uruks were bred in Izengard, but other orks might've been lent to Saruman by Sauron to command. So it's like royal troops that are put under the feudal lord command bickering with the said feodal lord's militia.
@@waki310 that is not true, however. It is true that there are many orc "breeds" Saurman did not "merge" orcs by magic, they were "bred" as in sexually, by breeding humans and orcs. before the return of Sauron at the end of the Third Age orcs would have developed into different independent tribes and likely adapted to differing conditions. It seems like the northern breeds who lived in the Misty Mountains and Grey hills were smaller and could see better in the dark. Many "older" strains of orc breeds could not stand the sun light due to being originally bred before the beginning of the first age, possibly from Elves captured, and forcefully bred with evil Mair, however this is unknown. What is known was that orcs were being cross bred with men at different points in history and that Saurman was creating "half orcs" and "goblin men" (with the half orcs being more orcish in nature, and the "Goblin men" being more like men with orcish traits) Newer breeds of orcs could withstand the sunlight and were taller then other orcs.
I've always thought the chapters where Pippin and Merry are captives of the orcs to be one of the most interesting parts of the story. Peter Jackson has made them goof balls instead of the true friends they were. In the movie they have no real motivation to go on this journey, they were out stealing vegetables for some odd reason.
And them lighting the firework. I still don’t get why that scene is way less mentioned than them stealing the crops. And if Pippin was 11, and tried to light the firework while Merry stopped him, it makes a lot more since.
Brilliant video, thank you, chapter 3 'the uruk hai' is my favourite chapter in fantasy, its so unique and fascinating, like you say the politics between the three groups, seeing the interaction between the orcs and uruks, its all just so different to anything i've read before, i think you've summarised much of it very well, I hope you mention the absolute meta of meta next video regarding Merrys comment about Pippin getting a whole chapter in Old Bilbo's book :)
There's only one problem with their depiction. Tracking isn't that precise once you factor in two factions having a battle at a campsite. All of the horse prints, orc prints, uruk hai prints, AND he figures out everything said in the movie? No. Once away from the battle, he would've picked up on the fleeing hobbit prints, but not in the middle of the Rhohirrim cleaned up aftermath... 🤷
@@tyree9055 Yeah, Aragorn's "tracking" in the movies was utterly ridiculous, I facepalmed so hard that my head almost hurt. And I don't understand why they did that!
We also get to see more of orc culture in the final chapter of The Two Towers "The Choices of Samwise", but regrettably it too is largely condensed in the the third film, and we miss out on valuable insight.
Haha, it's a joy to follow along with your videos, I've only found your channel this week. I've been reading the Trilogy and just started Book Six, but back when I was reading this part I told my friend who loves the movies, but hasn't ready the book how dirty they did Pippin in. He really saved both him and Merry with his actions.
In the books, the three different factions of Orcs also have a dance-off to determine the fate of the Hobbits. The scene was cut because the Misty Mountains leader was played by Raygun and her break dance routine was so bad the film was destroyed.
Actually Saruman was building an army for HIMSELF, since he wanted the RING for himself. Saruman, not Saruman, was the story's chief villain; since he was Sauron's official PROSECUTOR from the start, and only betrayed his duty in order to seek POWER by claiming the Ring. That's why Saruman survives until the end, spite-trashes the Shire, and dies by his own treachery; even after everyone else shows him forgiveness and mercy. That's why the movie breaks down; since the villain is never really shown, and DIES quite early.
But at least Peter Jackson added a bunch of useful stuff that Tolkien wasn’t smart enough to include himself like a cute elf girl and tossing Gimli👍🏼. This helped the audience understand Durin’s Folk don’t take themselves any more seriously than the director does his source material and both get tossed aside like garbage whenever they become inconvenient. Rocknroll!!!
The extended edition pretty much solidified any changes needed the adaptation had. The theatrical release was as good as it could get while maintaining the long run time to keep the story intact. I remember watching this movie on release and my legs were wobbly just walking out the theater after sitting for the entire thing no breaks.
It's amazing how great the cinematic cut version is for all, but the extended version is near perfection in doing the books justice. I don't think we'll ever hit this level of cinematic perfection ever again.
The lore just proves how the LOTR world is complex and how much it's above the mud of so-called "Rings of power". The only lore that is rising around the "Rings of power" is how bad and completely out of Tolkien's world they are.
I feel that the series should have been broken into six movies. This would negate the need to cut out as much content for runtime, but it also is consistent with the novel. While The Lord of the Rings was released as three volumes, Tolkien intended it to be read as a single volume, and actually broke it into six parts (which Tolkien calls "books"), with books 1 & 2 being compiled into The Fellowship of the Ring, books 3 & 4 being compiled into The Two Towers, and books 5 & 6 being compiled into Return of the King. If Jackson had adapted each book into its own movie instead of adapting each volume, we could have had a lot more of the cut content, since there would have been more potential runtime to work with. While a lot of stuff is cut from Two Towers, the most significant content omitted from the movies was from books 1 & 6, as those books contain more of the "boring" stuff that doesn't pertain the "meat" of the story. I personally would have liked to have seen live action versions of Tom Bombadil and Saruman's invasion of the Shire. The scene talked about in this video is probably one of the most significant parts cut/abridged from Two Towers, or at least it's one of the scenes that stands out in my mind, alongside the ent moot.
Another commenter said "everyone wanted these videos to be 20 hours long." That is spot on and ties in to my comment.. Every writer who takes a book,any book,of standard length and turns it into a movie has to make gut wrenching decisions to make it fit. Now imagine that book is not just a book but an entire universe construct,complete with its own origin story,mythologies,languages,histories ect.. Then,add the factor of the book being not just a book but rather a much beloved,or better yet,revered work of supreme beauty that went on to be the impetus for an entire genre. Every Tolkien fan doing the job,all of us,would say that it not only needs to be 20 hours long,It has to be 20 hours long as every single thing in that 20 hours is integral. But perhaps that is being generous,a 30 or 40 hour running time is more realistic to the material. Of coarse every person in film knows that is not possible,so they cut.. and we cry.
Was it the right decision to cut this massive section = yes. The movies were already massive and had to be dramatically cut for theatrical release and even the fan-service special DVD versions had to be kept slimmer than usual
It should've been six movies instead of three, just as there are six books, not three. It's a common misapprehension that it is a trilogy of books. It was only divided into three volumes by the publishers.
One of my favorite portions from the book is the shattered fellowship trying to save Merry&Pippin as it shows the true bond they had made and nature of the good side versus evil. Any member of the fellowship would gladly give their life to ensure the safety of the others... even Boromir in the end😔 I gotta say... I LOVE LOVE LOVE this series and subscribed.t Thank you so much for doing these.
Oh man...I love this video you made. Weirdly, I am currently playing Third Age Total war, as the Harad. I am not playing them as an evil faction, and it is interesting to see how the AI reacts to such unscripted gameplay...but this behind the scenes information from your video is so enlightening! The game has done some weird stuff too..like the Dwarves declaring war on the high elves..etc. thanks again
@factorfantasyweekly: your weekly LOTR comparison episodes are one of the highlights of my week. Your FOTR series was exceptional as it is already my favorite volume of the three. Only change I would request is maybe slowing your pace? I know you have a TON to cover, but I think your videos would be even greater if you slowed down your narration for each video. Great work! 👍
I think it added to the showing of how brave the Hobbits ALL the Hobbits really were. They used their wits to overcome the enemy. I think this was more important than some of the Slog to mordor scenes from Frodo and that group which to me had too much slogging it became too much they could have cut some of that out and showed the more important plot scenes because they were important to the characters. Or just made it longer.
@fact or fantasy i think the orcs and uruk arguing about "who's in charge" should have been included in the film to highlight the saruman's contention with sauron but also to flesh the "villains" out more. even the northern orcs should have been included. as for everything else, i dont think it was a huge loss. thank you for making these videos!
I agree. It was a great scene in the book, but books you can put down and chew on what you just read, then continue. You can't do that in a movie. It just would have added another layer of complexity to an already very complex story, and very likely confused things rather than revealing anything really important.
Great video, I learned a lot, or recalled what I have forgotten from the books. I like the changes Jackson made for the movies, it helped with pacing and added drama between Gandalf and Pipin, in my opinion.
Uruk-hai ARE orcs; just a larger breed developed by Sauron, and even more by Saruman. They were NOT created by Saruman or grown in mudpits; however the actual story was much worse, since the females were kept as slaves and prisoners, and also Saruman captured women of Rohan to breed half-orcs who looked like Mongols.
@@hannahcleopatrak9macandrew778 i mean they literally are created by saruman n grown in the movie so you're wrong there, the movies and the book are two separate entities
Very good. FWLIW: While I think all of Peter Jackson's films were fantastic, I do see The Two Towers as by far the weakest as it took the greatest liberties with the plot and characters in Tolkien's work, while adding screens that never existed in the books. I have no issue with adaptation for the sake of the medium as long as no fundamental changes or additions are made, and any resultant loose ends are properly tied up. Indeed, in the case of the Two Towers, fewer liberties would have allowed for more of the Uruk-hai. I should probably mention my memory for the films isn't great as I haven't watched them in a very long time - there's more than one excellent fan edit that does much to bring the films closer to the books and those are the versions I watch... ...indeed, for anyone who was dismayed by the Hobbit films, there are very good fan edits that do much to fix things although lacking sufficient material not to the extent as the LoTR films.
I always felt Jackson leaned too hard into tropes such as "in film all characters need a dramatic arc." Personally, I think that is a cop out; I'm sure there are plenty of great films that lack such arcs for the characters. Same with "there must be romantic subplot". It's certainly not an artistic necessity... it's a financial (i.e., box office) strategy. Film adaptations don't need dramatic arcs and romantic subplots, rather mainstream Hollywood blockbuster film adaptations demand them to maximize box office receipts.
Well ... yes ...but no. PJ was trying to get a Hollywood studio to fund LotR for years and some were only interested in committing to one or two movies rather than the trilogy. However when he persuaded New Line they were sold on three movies from the start without any arguments. I have a memory of PJ explaining this personally so it's probably somewhere on the DVD extras.
Too bad he got it totally wrong from the start. We don't even find out why Gandalf can't use the Ring; the film tells, but never shows-- when Tolkien expressly writes that Gandalf would have become worse than Sauron. Then Aragorn says nobody but Sauron can wield the Ring, and it's just confusing. I don't think Jackson even knew these facts.
@hannahcleopatrak9macandrew778 Ahh yes, let's disregard the entire trilogy because of one small part. If Galadriel can't use the ring, why would Gandalf be able to? Since he's a lesser Maia
I dont have a problem with the original movies cutting scenes. With that said, I bought the extended version to get the whole story and it seems I didnt get that. Maybe they will come out with the ultra extended version.
At least Tom Bombadil and the Old Forest Entebate was correctly cut, with a broken character and most boring part of the whole history. Still, wish we had at least a few more minutes regarding this part of the orcs and uruk-hai interactions. Instead we got all that stuf from The Hobbit in 3 movies...
Love the vid! It's always sad knowing how much of the Orcs and Uruks was cut out, we know one's stronger than the other in the film but they still seem really low intelligence, in the books you can see a bit more of their smarts like knowing that Saruman is in this for himself or that the forest is the best place to hide from the riders which in the film isn't conveyed so much, we hear they smell man flesh but we just assume it's about Aragorn and co and not the Rohirrim, if anything in the film it almost takes away from their intelligence as they're right there, surely they could camp or at least hide in the forest so the horsemen would struggle to keep formation and find them, in there they could pick them off if they played their cards right
This drink that the Uruk hai gives him, is actually a drink that heals and gives strength for fighting and long marches. After a few sips the hobbit felt no more pain from the wound. But the effect of that drug or drink stopped after a few hours!
For those have spent the last fifty years or more, readingthe trilogy, the Uruks are so well realised, they are exactly how you imagine them. Badass, supersoldiers, with a warped sense of humour
That part about Orcs of the Misty Mountains seeking revenge for their chieftain's is also the reason for their presence in the Battle of the Five Armies in the Hobbit book. They WERE NOT serving Sauron!
This encapsulates what Jackson does wrong in this film. The battle of Helms Deep is one chapter. It’s a great chapter, one of the best in the entirety of lord of the rings, but it’s one chapter. But Jackson cuts most of the orc-and-hobbit section, most of the Fangorn section, most of the pursuit, etc. So the main plot and character movement is replaced with battle that goes on and on. It’s way out of balance, and chucks most of merry and pippins character development . It’s why this was my least favorite of the three films.
I disagree on one point of this EXCELLENT interpretation and presentation. I think the Orcs are 100% Mordor-oriented and driven; they want the hobbits to take them per their orders. While it's unlikely that Grishnakh is actually speaking of Sauron himself, rather his commanders' intent, or orders from their Orcish chain of command. In opposition, the Uruks are 100% Isengard oriented, and totally loyal to Saruman. In my opinion, that's exactly what this scene is prefacing. THANK YOU for this insightful and authoritative breakdown, very well done and much appreciated!
awesome video! Jacksons alterations are fine for me. especially the ones regarding the groups or orcs and uruks. however, the chasing over the plains by aragorn gimli and legolas dont look quite that demanding. running for 3 days and nights would draw a toll on all three characters. Legolas seems worried tho, like in the books. while aragorn keeps moral up and gimli rolling down cliffs... instead of confessing hes exhausted. like the decent dwarf with some character ark. that gimli actually is. but gimli rolling is my only real critic here
the Two Towers is my favorite movie in the LotR series. I love how badass the Uruk-Hai is and their look is just awesome! And the Helms deep fight is my all-time favorite "battle-scene" in any movie. man i gotta watch the movies again!
I think for me, the biggest difference beyond things like Pippin being way more of a badass during this time than in the book, is that Rohan is quite noticeable different. In stead of grassy plains (perfect for, e.g. riding horses) there is this sort of mildly undulating terrain with rocky areas braking through all over the place (not so perfect for riding horses across). Even though I know the reasons why it looks like this, from the docs on the extended edition dvds, it sorta stands out to me still to this day. Not to be too picky of course. Anyway, not sure if this would class as a location difference but its something I notice.
Although there are some truly mind-boggling changes that Jackson makes in the films, which either directly contradict lore from the books, or are pointless, the changes he made for this section were pretty understandable. He manages to convey the more important events taking place during this section of the book, and does so with a fairly small amount of screen time, which was obviously important given the one film per book limitation that they were working with
While as a fan of the books I would love to have seen more of Merry's and Pippin's development especially when it comes to the Scouring of the Shire, I think Jackson made decent alterations in adapting them for the screen. Sure some things were altered or left out, but no film can be a scene for scene remake of such a long set of books. Some parts of the book slow the film's pace or just aren't that critical compared to saving a minute of run time, so you can get something else in that is more interesting visually or more critical to the plot.
have you ever thought about doing a series about how Lord of the Rings Online follows the story line up to mordor & even beyond the destruction of the ring.
Misty Mountains orcs removal? Totally fair for the movie. And I'll give Jackson credit here for omitting Pippin's quick thinking here-keeping him the "Fool of a Took" might have played into it, but it wasn't necessary for the film and it was a beat they didn't really have time for, so it was omitted. I do miss since it's one of the ways the books show Pippin is starting to grow up a bit. The movie changes how he leaves a sign for Aragorn in a way that isn't very believable IMO since at least one of the uruks would've noticed this and realized what he was doing. They're brutish, not stupid.
Jackson really dropped the ball here. The orc dialog in the books is precious. It only occurs in a few places, but it gives us great insight into their culture and their view of the war. It's quite amusing at times as well. What really makes a good villain in the movies is dialog, so that the audience can get to know the villain. But there are so few in Lord of the Rings--Sauron of course, but he only says one or two sentences in the books, which we hear second hand, Saruman, whom we get to hear from, Gollum, and the orcs. By excluding so much of this material, Jackson dumbed down the movie and missed opportunities for it to be much, much better than it was.
@@keyser_söze23 Yes. Which is why Jackson should have used as much of the orc dialog from the books as he possibly could. But nope, another missed opportunity, one of many.
😂 We aren’t there yet, but when Pippin gets nearly stomped by the horse his hands are completely untied, and then after he rolls they are tied. And it’s like the most obvious thing ever 😂
The theatrical cuts even more of the conversations between the orcs and the Uruks. It's almost jarring in the theatrical cut how fast the scene moves and it's one of my favorite moments from the extended edition film. The same thing happens with Frodo and Sam navigating Emyn Muil before they encounter Gollum and I think the theatrical cut loses alot from these omissions.
Follow along with me each week! 📖 Claim Andy Serkis’ narration of “The Two Towers” on Audible *for FREE:* www.audibletrial.com/twotowers 👈 Every free trial supports the channel!
I honestly hated all three movies. Too many changes that make no sense, or too much just left out.
@@lacdirknf man
you missed the part, where a lot of the northern group returned to the mountains, because of the exhaustion and the sun, while the uruk-hais were not effected and run further, thereby leaving a lot of these orcs behind. This happens in the film of screen in the cut of these 2 rests of the orc-host.
Additional the movie is in that sense canonical, that in both cases boromir was not killed at the capture of the hobbits, but no longer able to react to the capture by arrows. Some areas of the scene are closer to the books including the lack to show the uncertainty of his death as hopeful thinking, because they didn't saw him get killed, but he was surrounded by Orcs. Pippin is not a fool, he is wishing unrealistic things, because he has such a mindset.
Additional a lot of this chapter brings up contradictions, like the large amount of humans in Saruman's army, while the orcs apparently eat human meat.This was not shown in the movie.
In the book this was possible to explain with the simple reality, that orcs, goblins and similar creatures from melkhor and etc. etc. are not really a society or race, but simply ONLY a perversion of life. In this narrative the cannibalistic tendency of orcs is just a critic to modern dehumanized, because denaturalized, humans. modern socieity is eating itself.
We see a similar warping of natural order of live in the shire by Saruman later with rules, quotes and oppression and the example of the idiot hobbit in the "new" mill embracing these changes is a critic about such a mindset, that corrupts common existence and calls it outdated to erase it.
Evil doesn't creates, it corrupts. Orcs are not created and Saruman didn't created the Uruk-Hai, he perverted existent beings to make Uruks "better". In the same sense Orcs in general were the attempt of an evil god-like being to pervert existent being to make them his own creation and FAILING. Orcs failed to be created and became twisted evil beings. This is one of the major themes of the whole book.
@@apollomars1678 Are you sure about the Northerners returning to the Misty Mountains? My recollection is that they tried to break away but were forced back to the main body.
@@richardwales9674 i have sadly only the german version, because i am german, but after the paragraph about the orc-drink you got a paragraph about northern orks wanting to break free and getting force dinto ranks.
(you talk about this stuff i presume)
After this paragraph there is a discussion about heading east or south and Uklúk is complaining, that it is again an issue to be resolved by the Uruk-hai, because they would fear the Rohirim, so Ukluk is even encouraging them mockingly to run, run to the woods, that would be their best chances etc. etc.
So most of the northern orcs turned around , over 100 men, and run along the river as fast as possible into the direction of the mountains.
Grischnach used this departure to reappear with his 40 men and in the following fleeing from the Rohirim the Uruks and Uruk-hai were able to overtake the northern orks, because the Rohirim gathered the orcs together to kill them in one battle and by the weakness of northern ork knees under the sun it has no consequences, that they broke from the main host of orcs.
So the departure happens later and without consequences, because Ukluk group had to run for the forest => mountains in fear of the Rohirim too.
Everyone wanted these movies to be 20 hours long
And everyone wanted the books to be longer too!
I wouldn't mind
There are probably 20 hours "The are taking the hobbits to Isengard" mixes around here
I did!
No they do not. The movies were already too long. All those hours and the final battle is against gollum. Very anticlimatic and didn't leave an impact on me. Then again it's an old book and maybe the concept of decent climaxes didn't exist back then.
The wide angle of the Uruk-Hai running through the canyons was filmed in the South Island. When they recorded the dialogue, they re-created the canyon in studio in Wellington. I was one of the Uruk-Hai for the studio shot and the detail on the canyon walls was incredible. On the back of them, you have all the supports and scaffolding, but in the fake canyon, it's like you really were in the actual canyon. Absolutely incredible detail.
I'm always pleasantly surprised how many of the extras/workers from the movies pop up in the comments of these LOTR channels/videos. On one video I watched, the guy who was Viggo's body double for Aragorn participated and told stories about the production!
So cool bro.
@@evanburrows1697 Can you remember which video it was?
You guys were awesome!
I don't think Merry was faking being hurt in the movie. I think he *was* hurt, but was trying to spare Pippin the worry. "Nah, I'm faking... see, I even fooled you" was just Merry being lighthearted about his situation. Pippin clearly saw through this and sincerely called for help from the Uruks. He was not participating in a deception.
Also he got some medicin
In the book, Merry got knocked out when he fought the orcs, leaving him wounded; but they gave him some medicine that FIXED it but left him scarred. The orc-liquor also make them feel better. The orcs also fed the hobbits some bread and meat. Also they did NOT want to eat the hobbits, and they NEVER ate each other.
This was a scene of the harsh conditions that the orcs lived with, and wasn't well-shown by the film.
@@hannahcleopatrak9macandrew778 Basically, they were a lot more civilized in the books.
@@hannahcleopatrak9macandrew778 Orc medicine: good for healing, not so good for cosmetics.
@@Grivianhe can’t take his grog!
i think its really cool that the uruks mentioned boromir as a great warrior, so that means they kind of really respect him.
Cool and reasonable. In the books, it appears Boromir killed at least 20 Uruks himself, while being surrounded, trying to protect the hobbits, imagine how many more he would have slain if he hadn't been killed by the arrows. If I were a Uruk, I would also called him a great warrior.
@@luisrods ofc ik, i never thought something else, i just want to point out that it was really great from tolkien to actually write it down from thier perspective
@@luisrods He could have taken on Sauron on his own
That was Ugluk, who was very honorable and loyal for an orc; but he was also BOASTING about killing Boromir... after all, Denethor said that Bormir could have killed ALL the orcs, and he only died by trying to save the hobbits to redeem himself for betraying Frodo. Meanwhile while Grishak was a traitor to Sauron, and tried to steal the Ring-- which the movie didn't even get, since Merry and Pippin were able to trick him into helping them escape.
Yeah. Not only a great warrior but THE great warrior so definitively some redpect there. And they say Uruk-hai can't be humble.
I'm still amazed by how the good the orcs and uruk-hais look in these movies!
I know right! WETA is unbeatable in these movies.
Yeah, they only look good when your guy’s attention spans/iq’s are horrible. And they look, act, and sound like brutes. They even have generic Cockney accents, which Tolkien never said that they did in his letters, either.
Also psychological horror filmmakers, like Tony Kaye, or John Carpenter, should adapt the films, and make the Orcs look like ‘The X-Files’ demons, and obscure them, just like in the show, and make them wear prehistoric chainmail armor.
@@saberhamlinconmaverickknud4821 I'm curious, what accent do you imagine orcs having?
@@saberhamlinconmaverickknud4821 orcs in the books have Cockney accents. period. Technically none of the words in the books are correct due everyone using different languages and even names.
And they look fine. There is nothing wrong with the look of the orcs in the movies they do not need to look like "X-files" demons." Lord of the Rings is not "psychological horror"
@@davids9324 interesting question as they'd be degenerate in a way. They'd speak a common language with a learned accent but the way back "original" should resemble north eastern Europe. We'd recognize it as Ural or even russian.
Props to Pip. One of the saddest parts about cutting the Scouring of The Shire is that we don't see the glory of Merry and Pippin as bad ass leaders and stout hearted fighters. The Hobbits truly "grow up" and aren't just anecdotes, oddities, or ancillary. By the end, they are to be counted among all free folk, by all.
the problem with the scouring of the shire for a movie is that you already beat the big bad. the movie is already 4 hours long and adding an entire 4th act, after the big world ending thread is already eliminated, just makes no sense.
That all depends on how we perceive the world, @@tommerker8063 , and how soldiers who fought in World War I felt coming home, only to realise that the society they had left behind had changed.
The same could eventually be said for all war veterans pretty much.
Tolkien caught trench fever while on active service, but didn't see the same kind of action at the Somme, where he lost some of his friends.
There's quite some symbolism with regards to how he feels about "industry" and the harm it does to "nature" (Hobbits liking nothing more complicated than a windmill or watermill, and the destruction of the land that he saw in Flanders is reflected in Isengard, Mordor and so on.
The Scouring of The Shire had its rightful place as such, but was deemed as too time-consuming unfortunately.
"no my friends, you bow to no one"
Don’t forget that they all actually grow up by becoming taller than everyone else in the shire
Them bloody Ents! @@SizzleCorndog
The Uruk smelling man-flesh was movie only although Ugluk did talk about the 'cursed horse-boys' getting wind of them. Peter Jackson implies it was Aragorn but this is impossible as the three companions were nearly a day behind. It would make more sense to smell the Rohirrim pursuing them rather than one Ranger.
I think Jackson tried to imply hobbits thought that uruks can smell Aragorn but they actually smelled Rohirrim instead.
Plus if it were Aragorn they smelled, wouldn't they also have mentioned smelling an Elf and Dwarf 🤷 it's unlogical to make them focus on just one of the three smells, where all three smells would've been as strong and mixed together on the way to the uruks.
@@ScientificChicken-nb9cq Well, if it were Legolas, they probably would have said, "I smell man-flesh and dainty flowers like a lilac in spring." 😆
Ugluk, got more personality than some of the cast from Rings of Power.
Absolutely. 😆💯 Tho I'm not sure if it is a compliment or not because I genuinely like Uglúk a lot.
@@saintbutunholy definitely a compliment, they almost got a 3-5 minute screen time in LOTR Two Towers which made it more special and impressive.
@@keto8354 Oh yes that's absolutely true. Knowing how he and appeared in the book, the conversations etc. I'm just only sad that we didn't get more, because heck, even their appearance, voices and the acting is outstanding, so seeing more of the Uruk boys like this would have been candy for my eyes and eyes. Yes, a weird candy, but a candy nevertheless, haha.
Ugluk is more pleasing to watch than Rings of Prime Galadriel
Almost the complete casting is an abomination...
Elrond is the likely the worst
Yet all in line with Amazon 😉 Sauron is perhaps the best cast, as is his story-arc
The orc draught was a mixture of peach ice tea, glycerine and sodastream cola concentrate. According to Dominic Monaghan, who plays Merry, he said it "couldn't get anymore sticky, like the liquid glue". The first take Merry's vomit was acting but the second take it was Dom actually throwing up as he remembered how disgusting the "orc draught" was from the take before. Peter Jackson told the Uruk actors to just keep pour more into him and make sure he projects a vomit in front of the camera.
Ewwww
That's rather evil.
Pain is temporary, film is forever. Thanks for the puke, Dom! XP
@@VXGaming depends how dedicated you are to your craft
@@ContraltissimoBut there are plenty of ways to get the visual effect of vomitting without actually making the actors sick. Luckily that probably wouldn't fly with union rules nowadays
Grishnakh got done dirty. In the book, it's pretty heavily implied that he's a lot more important than he's letting on (enough so that he gets an airlift across the Anduin by Nazgul!), and he seems to be the only Orc in any of the three groups who fully understands *why* their masters want to capture the Hobbits. From a broader storytelling perspective, Grishnakh's presence is a reminder that the eye of Sauron is still upon the Fellowship.
...and in the movie, he's just a thug who wants to 'drill maggot-holes in yer belly'.
of course Grishnakh in the PJ movies is NOT from Mordor he is from Isengaurd. None of the Orcs in TTT who were in Rohan came from anywhere else. I just like to think that Grishnakh in the books looked and sounded like the one in the movie (but was ALOT smarter and very very well informed- which makes him far more scary i think)
He is a lot more perceptive than most of the Orcs but obviously still a fool since he doesn’t know that the ring would betray him and get him killed
@@keithtorgersen9664 It strikes me that it's possible for a clever person to have less than perfect knowledge about about specific very arcane artefacts. If not knowing the ring will betray you makes you a fool, that makes the overwhelming majority of Middle Earth's population fools.
I just wish the movies explained the timeline. Most people who have never read the books and have only seen the movies seem to think the entire trilogy took place in a short space of time and not over the course of a number of years.
@secondchance6603, yes the first chapter took place over a span of 17 years, but once Frodo set out from Hobbiton it was only a 6 month journey and 3 of those months were resting at Rivendell and Lothlorien
I actually completely agree with you. I also miss this deep dive into orcish social behavior, and - of course - Pippin's heroism and development.
But I think Peter Jackson usually has a tremendously professional sense of when to rationalize scenes and when to develop them, all for the medium of film.
Here I think he does exactly the right thing, except that I would have liked to have seen riders of Rohan pursue the orcs, instead of the surprise attack. But there are small details that I can buy.
Thanks again for a very good analysis!
Grishnakh in the books is the closest we get to see of a clever Orc. Wish we could have seen more of his character in the movie, although in the Bakshi version a bit more of his character was portrayed correctly
One of the dirty sales tricks of Amazon with their recent HILARIOUS TV-series, was to "make the orcs dangerous again" - as though Jackson's adaptation had made the orcs laughable.
@@Hordalending Yeah I am avoiding that show. It's just expensively produced fanfic.
@@BrettWMcCoy It's not cannon and does not exist in my mind much like most any other draught vomited up by Bozos & company.
They're a very clever people overall- not at all good, and a pack of dire philistines and vandals, but very, very clever.
Google deleted my comment because I hurt Jeff Bezos feelings.
Fun fact, the "Orc Drink" is actually an evil version of Miruvor. While it hurts to drink (to Free Peoples at least) and takes some of your overall 'essence' away, it does strengthen you and gives you the energy to go on.
Interesting!
So it's Isengard's version of Red Bull? Tolkien was way ahead of his time.
@@BluffyMoo In fact, he was. Cause the Dunedain also have a version of it. Yes, the Rangers had their own magic Red Bull.
@@ThePariahDark Would be funny if Saruman saw Red Bull as beneath him, only the finest of Monster Energy drink is good enough for him (and his closest mannish underlings).
I was under the impression that it is an opiate concoction.
I wished they made it clearer in the films that the Orcs were with Sauron and not Saruman, even if they only left that in the extended edition.
the movies completely removed that subplot. These Orcs are from Isengard. In the PJ movies orcs from Mordor play no role in this sequence.
@@MrChickennugget360 don't know what movie you're watching.
It was not that hard to understand. When Saruman went burning trees, Sauron sent him orcs to do it. But Saruman made better orcs by another cross-breeding - Uruks while Sauron orcs still helped him but were still loyal to Sauron instead. There is also scene where Lurtz murders the orc, a scene when orcs arrive to Isengard. I was a kid when I first saw it and I didn't remember all the stuff from the book but that distinction between orcs, uruks and moria orcs (goblins) was made very clear not only by visual aspects but also scenes.
Visual artists and of course Peter Jackson did a superb job.
@@MrChickennugget360 Huh? I just watched the Extended Edition last weekend, distinctly remember an Uruk-Hai complaining that he wouldn't take lip from a "Mordor orc" and killing him.
The movie did not follow the book very well; for example, SARUMAN was supposed to be the story's main villain, not Sauron, who was just a criminal that Saruman was charged with defeating; but Saruman became obsessed with the Ring, and so wanted it for himself-- and so he betrayed Gandalf and all the rest, in order to join with Sauron to try to get the Ring. In the movie, he just wants Sauron to have the Ring, since nobody ELSE can USE it in the film!
All this is why i urge people to read the books. I have taken an example in Sir Christopher Lee and do read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings once a year. I love it.
This part of the books are my favourite for a very specific reason. When you read about Frodo and Sam, the writing is constructed to be slow and harder to read, representing their difficulty and slow pace. Contrarily, the chase is written so it is easy and fast to read representing the speed and excitement of the pursuit. Such an amazing mastery of writing.
"can't take his draught! Ha ha!" Such a sick line
Also misinterpreted. In the book, Ugluk gives Merry some painful ointment that cures his wound, apparently it's iodine or some other orc-medicine, but the other orcs are amused because it's the same medicine they get. Meanwhile the orc-drink gives the hobbits strength and endurance; it's not for wounds and it doesn't make them sick. It's essentially amphetamines, like was giving to soldiers in WWI.
I took merrys drinking as really being in bad shape but saying it was a ruse to calm pippin
I just finished this chapter. I love how the orcs and uruks are portrayed not as mindless brutes but far more human: controlled by fear and a dreadful understanding that orders are orders and there is nothing they can do. They are the embodiment of the hopeless military dreg
"controlled by fear", "hopeless military dreg"
No? They are very clearly relishing the chance for slaughter and plunder.
Well they used to be Elves; so they can't be good, just like Elves can't choose to be evil, but can only be corrupted.
Only humans have that choice, because of their mortality; this was the story's main point, which was utterly ruined in the film's misanthropic myopathy.
I personally feel that Jackson’s decision to cut the song “Where There’s a Whip There’s A Way”, actually written by Tolkien himself, to be the biggest departure from the books.
Actually it was written by Glenn Yarborough for the cheesy 1980 animated film. And it definitely had a lot of post-Vietnam anti-war sentiment in it. I don't hate the song. I think it's funny as hell. But I'm also recognizing what it is.
It’s interesting to me that you interpreted the scene between the orcs and uruks in the movie as two groups under Saruman’s orders fighting for credit. I don’t know if this was born out of having read the books, but I always assumed that when Grishnahk said “Our master,” he was referring to Sauron. In other words, I always assumed the uruks were Saruman’s and the orcs were Sauron’s.
I think it can easily seen both ways. Growing up I saw the movies before I read the books. And since Saruman was the only bad guy really shown in depth in the first film, my young mind assumed the orcs were his. Especially since with the way Jackson portrays it, the orcs kind of inspected and managed the Uruk hai on Saruman’s behalf. In all the Saruman scenes, the orcs are the supervisors and the Uruk hai are the brutes.
Of course as I grew up and read the books I understood Jackson was portraying Sauron‘s orcs.
@@factorfantasyweekly to be fair, I watched the movies before I read the books; but I was too young to make that connection. I didn’t *really* fall in love with the movies until I was around fifteen/sixteen. (I first watched the movies when I was thirteen or so.) By that time, I had already read the books.
@@factorfantasyweekly Yeah and the fact that when Sam and Frodo escape the spider there are a mix of orcs and uruk hai together far away from Saruman...I thought growing up Saruman was controlling both on behalf on Suuron
Well, we know that uruks were bred in Izengard, but other orks might've been lent to Saruman by Sauron to command. So it's like royal troops that are put under the feudal lord command bickering with the said feodal lord's militia.
@@waki310 that is not true, however. It is true that there are many orc "breeds" Saurman did not "merge" orcs by magic, they were "bred" as in sexually, by breeding humans and orcs.
before the return of Sauron at the end of the Third Age orcs would have developed into different independent tribes and likely adapted to differing conditions. It seems like the northern breeds who lived in the Misty Mountains and Grey hills were smaller and could see better in the dark. Many "older" strains of orc breeds could not stand the sun light due to being originally bred before the beginning of the first age, possibly from Elves captured, and forcefully bred with evil Mair, however this is unknown.
What is known was that orcs were being cross bred with men at different points in history and that Saurman was creating "half orcs" and "goblin men" (with the half orcs being more orcish in nature, and the "Goblin men" being more like men with orcish traits)
Newer breeds of orcs could withstand the sunlight and were taller then other orcs.
I've always thought the chapters where Pippin and Merry are captives of the orcs to be one of the most interesting parts of the story. Peter Jackson has made them goof balls instead of the true friends they were. In the movie they have no real motivation to go on this journey, they were out stealing vegetables for some odd reason.
Agreed. Jackson knew cinema audience have little patience. He dumbed everything down massively
And them lighting the firework. I still don’t get why that scene is way less mentioned than them stealing the crops. And if Pippin was 11, and tried to light the firework while Merry stopped him, it makes a lot more since.
Brilliant video, thank you, chapter 3 'the uruk hai' is my favourite chapter in fantasy, its so unique and fascinating, like you say the politics between the three groups, seeing the interaction between the orcs and uruks, its all just so different to anything i've read before, i think you've summarised much of it very well, I hope you mention the absolute meta of meta next video regarding Merrys comment about Pippin getting a whole chapter in Old Bilbo's book :)
Another thing I miss in the movie is seeing Aragon's tracking skills as he correctly explains what happens to the Hobbits from the foot prints
Very true. And we’ll get to that next week. 👀
There's only one problem with their depiction. Tracking isn't that precise once you factor in two factions having a battle at a campsite. All of the horse prints, orc prints, uruk hai prints, AND he figures out everything said in the movie? No. Once away from the battle, he would've picked up on the fleeing hobbit prints, but not in the middle of the Rhohirrim cleaned up aftermath...
🤷
@@tyree9055 Yeah, Aragorn's "tracking" in the movies was utterly ridiculous, I facepalmed so hard that my head almost hurt. And I don't understand why they did that!
@@irena4545 Probably ignorance...
😂🤷♂️
We also get to see more of orc culture in the final chapter of The Two Towers "The Choices of Samwise", but regrettably it too is largely condensed in the the third film, and we miss out on valuable insight.
Haha, it's a joy to follow along with your videos, I've only found your channel this week. I've been reading the Trilogy and just started Book Six, but back when I was reading this part I told my friend who loves the movies, but hasn't ready the book how dirty they did Pippin in. He really saved both him and Merry with his actions.
In the books, the three different factions of Orcs also have a dance-off to determine the fate of the Hobbits. The scene was cut because the Misty Mountains leader was played by Raygun and her break dance routine was so bad the film was destroyed.
Really unfortunate they cut it…
🤣
[i] leader was played by Raygun and her break dance routine was so bad the film was destroyed.[/i] Wait, what?!
LOL!
The Uruk Hai Chapter is one of my favorite chapters of the lord of the rings. So interesting to see the enemys grunts perspective on things
We were so worried about building an army worthy of Mordor, that we didn't think if we SHOULD be building an army worthy of Mordor... 💍👁
Were you there??
Actually Saruman was building an army for HIMSELF, since he wanted the RING for himself.
Saruman, not Saruman, was the story's chief villain; since he was Sauron's official PROSECUTOR from the start, and only betrayed his duty in order to seek POWER by claiming the Ring. That's why Saruman survives until the end, spite-trashes the Shire, and dies by his own treachery; even after everyone else shows him forgiveness and mercy.
That's why the movie breaks down; since the villain is never really shown, and DIES quite early.
But at least Peter Jackson added a bunch of useful stuff that Tolkien wasn’t smart enough to include himself like a cute elf girl and tossing Gimli👍🏼. This helped the audience understand Durin’s Folk don’t take themselves any more seriously than the director does his source material and both get tossed aside like garbage whenever they become inconvenient. Rocknroll!!!
Weta Workshop statue of a Uruk in full stride sits proudly on my shelf...have an Easterling and Goblin Archer, but the Uruk is favourite
Wasn't it in the animated movie version. One thing is most assuredly known. Where there is a Whip there is a Way.
0:40: They're taking the hobbits to Isengarde!
Is that an OSW reference? Can of coke to you sir
This chapter was my favourite of the whole book! I loved hearing the Uruk and Orcs’ conversations! Beautiful!
You can hear the real life version just by listening to a Moroccan and an Arabian argue in the street.
@@99allthetime voetsek you racist vark.
@@rashidadams8327 "Looks like meats back on the menu boys!"- Haitians in Springfield OH
@@99allthetime clown 🤡
@@99allthetime jy is ‘n vark!
The extended edition pretty much solidified any changes needed the adaptation had. The theatrical release was as good as it could get while maintaining the long run time to keep the story intact. I remember watching this movie on release and my legs were wobbly just walking out the theater after sitting for the entire thing no breaks.
It's amazing how great the cinematic cut version is for all, but the extended version is near perfection in doing the books justice.
I don't think we'll ever hit this level of cinematic perfection ever again.
Is that widely available?
@@SeminoleSpaceForce yes, I think it's on prime and if you know how to torrent, you're set.
These videos are the highlight of my Saturday morning :)
Glad you’re enjoying them! Thanks for the support. 🙏🏼
THEY'RE TAKING THE HOBBITS TO ISENGARD
The lore just proves how the LOTR world is complex and how much it's above the mud of so-called "Rings of power". The only lore that is rising around the "Rings of power" is how bad and completely out of Tolkien's world they are.
Pippin was done dirty by Peater Jackson.
he was redeemed later on
@ernestogastelum9123 This, and I think he also adds much needed levity without being a character we have to take seriously.
@@ernestogastelum9123This. I think he's adding much needed levity, while being a character that we need to take seriously.
I feel that the series should have been broken into six movies. This would negate the need to cut out as much content for runtime, but it also is consistent with the novel. While The Lord of the Rings was released as three volumes, Tolkien intended it to be read as a single volume, and actually broke it into six parts (which Tolkien calls "books"), with books 1 & 2 being compiled into The Fellowship of the Ring, books 3 & 4 being compiled into The Two Towers, and books 5 & 6 being compiled into Return of the King. If Jackson had adapted each book into its own movie instead of adapting each volume, we could have had a lot more of the cut content, since there would have been more potential runtime to work with. While a lot of stuff is cut from Two Towers, the most significant content omitted from the movies was from books 1 & 6, as those books contain more of the "boring" stuff that doesn't pertain the "meat" of the story. I personally would have liked to have seen live action versions of Tom Bombadil and Saruman's invasion of the Shire. The scene talked about in this video is probably one of the most significant parts cut/abridged from Two Towers, or at least it's one of the scenes that stands out in my mind, alongside the ent moot.
They could have cut the Hobbit down to 1 movie and added more to the LOTR, then they both would have been better.
Book IV would make a terrible movie.
I’m glad they don’t have the scouring of the shire in the movie.
I always thought it felt weird and tacked on in the book to begin with.
Love these videos, my man. In depth and engaging
Glad you’re enjoying them! 🫡
@@factorfantasyweekly i really am, 10/10 content
Another commenter said "everyone wanted these videos to be 20 hours long." That is spot on and ties in to my comment..
Every writer who takes a book,any book,of standard length and turns it into a movie has to make gut wrenching decisions to make it fit.
Now imagine that book is not just a book but an entire universe construct,complete with its own origin story,mythologies,languages,histories ect..
Then,add the factor of the book being not just a book but rather a much beloved,or better yet,revered work of supreme beauty that went on to be the impetus for an entire genre.
Every Tolkien fan doing the job,all of us,would say that it not only needs to be 20 hours long,It has to be 20 hours long as every single thing in that 20 hours is integral. But perhaps that is being generous,a 30 or 40 hour running time is more realistic to the material.
Of coarse every person in film knows that is not possible,so they cut.. and we cry.
I hope with the advancement of AI we can soon get our wishes inexpensively granted!
The Uruk-Hai were good in Rebel Moon.
Was it the right decision to cut this massive section = yes. The movies were already massive and had to be dramatically cut for theatrical release and even the fan-service special DVD versions had to be kept slimmer than usual
It should've been six movies instead of three, just as there are six books, not three.
It's a common misapprehension that it is a trilogy of books. It was only divided into three volumes by the publishers.
One of my favorite portions from the book is the shattered fellowship trying to save Merry&Pippin as it shows the true bond they had made and nature of the good side versus evil. Any member of the fellowship would gladly give their life to ensure the safety of the others... even Boromir in the end😔
I gotta say... I LOVE LOVE LOVE this series and subscribed.t
Thank you so much for doing these.
It was one of the few scenes where I wasn't annoyed at PJ; I thought that given the need to condense they did an acceptable job of it.
Oh man...I love this video you made. Weirdly, I am currently playing Third Age Total war, as the Harad. I am not playing them as an evil faction, and it is interesting to see how the AI reacts to such unscripted gameplay...but this behind the scenes information from your video is so enlightening! The game has done some weird stuff too..like the Dwarves declaring war on the high elves..etc. thanks again
Best looking Uruks and Goblin.
@factorfantasyweekly: your weekly LOTR comparison episodes are one of the highlights of my week. Your FOTR series was exceptional as it is already my favorite volume of the three. Only change I would request is maybe slowing your pace? I know you have a TON to cover, but I think your videos would be even greater if you slowed down your narration for each video. Great work! 👍
Couldn't agree more. The content is fabulous but it's sometimes too quick to grasp.
I am really enjoying this series; thank you!
You’re the best 💪🏼 Thanks for watching and supporting!
Great series, love your work!
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Guys someone help me…. Why i can watch this video even in the background and for others video i cant 😂😂
Great comments, it's good to go back n forth book vs movie
So Uruk-hai are Lawful Evil and Orcs are Chaotic Evil, perfect examples...
I think it added to the showing of how brave the Hobbits ALL the Hobbits really were. They used their wits to overcome the enemy. I think this was more important than some of the Slog to mordor scenes from Frodo and that group which to me had too much slogging it became too much they could have cut some of that out and showed the more important plot scenes because they were important to the characters. Or just made it longer.
''Meat's back on the menu, boys!''
One line, that sums up the entire conflict between Mordor Orcs and Uruk Hai, as covered in the TTT/LOTR chapter.
Good that we have the extended versions.
Only one worth watching!
@fact or fantasy i think the orcs and uruk arguing about "who's in charge" should have been included in the film to highlight the saruman's contention with sauron but also to flesh the "villains" out more. even the northern orcs should have been included. as for everything else, i dont think it was a huge loss. thank you for making these videos!
I agree. It was a great scene in the book, but books you can put down and chew on what you just read, then continue. You can't do that in a movie. It just would have added another layer of complexity to an already very complex story, and very likely confused things rather than revealing anything really important.
Great video, I learned a lot, or recalled what I have forgotten from the books. I like the changes Jackson made for the movies, it helped with pacing and added drama between Gandalf and Pipin, in my opinion.
Fun-Fact!- all of the Uruk-hai are played by Glen Danzig and his kin-folk!
Uruk-hai ARE orcs; just a larger breed developed by Sauron, and even more by Saruman.
They were NOT created by Saruman or grown in mudpits; however the actual story was much worse, since the females were kept as slaves and prisoners, and also Saruman captured women of Rohan to breed half-orcs who looked like Mongols.
I'd take that job ngl. Not a fan of Saruman but the only thing I appreciate in him is the Uruk-hais. 😊
@@hannahcleopatrak9macandrew778 i mean they literally are created by saruman n grown in the movie so you're wrong there, the movies and the book are two separate entities
Very good. FWLIW: While I think all of Peter Jackson's films were fantastic, I do see The Two Towers as by far the weakest as it took the greatest liberties with the plot and characters in Tolkien's work, while adding screens that never existed in the books.
I have no issue with adaptation for the sake of the medium as long as no fundamental changes or additions are made, and any resultant loose ends are properly tied up. Indeed, in the case of the Two Towers, fewer liberties would have allowed for more of the Uruk-hai.
I should probably mention my memory for the films isn't great as I haven't watched them in a very long time - there's more than one excellent fan edit that does much to bring the films closer to the books and those are the versions I watch...
...indeed, for anyone who was dismayed by the Hobbit films, there are very good fan edits that do much to fix things although lacking sufficient material not to the extent as the LoTR films.
I always felt Jackson leaned too hard into tropes such as "in film all characters need a dramatic arc." Personally, I think that is a cop out; I'm sure there are plenty of great films that lack such arcs for the characters. Same with "there must be romantic subplot". It's certainly not an artistic necessity... it's a financial (i.e., box office) strategy. Film adaptations don't need dramatic arcs and romantic subplots, rather mainstream Hollywood blockbuster film adaptations demand them to maximize box office receipts.
13:55 I knew that energy drinks are orcish invention. :)
I'm jumping into this channel n series right now but if it's what I think it is then u got a new follower
Looking forward to the scenes (book vs movie) when the Riders of Rohan meet the wild men of Woses. Wait- never mind
Bro Peter Jackson did such an amazing job with all the limits imposed on the entire project . It was going to be a single movie for years.
Agreed, it’s my favorite movie series!
Well ... yes ...but no. PJ was trying to get a Hollywood studio to fund LotR for years and some were only interested in committing to one or two movies rather than the trilogy. However when he persuaded New Line they were sold on three movies from the start without any arguments. I have a memory of PJ explaining this personally so it's probably somewhere on the DVD extras.
Too bad he got it totally wrong from the start. We don't even find out why Gandalf can't use the Ring; the film tells, but never shows-- when Tolkien expressly writes that Gandalf would have become worse than Sauron. Then Aragorn says nobody but Sauron can wield the Ring, and it's just confusing. I don't think Jackson even knew these facts.
@@hannahcleopatrak9macandrew778 lol
@hannahcleopatrak9macandrew778
Ahh yes, let's disregard the entire trilogy because of one small part. If Galadriel can't use the ring, why would Gandalf be able to? Since he's a lesser Maia
Man they did a good job making these characters horrific. The actors must be so active and capable to be able to run in those costumes.
I dont have a problem with the original movies cutting scenes. With that said, I bought the extended version to get the whole story and it seems I didnt get that. Maybe they will come out with the ultra extended version.
The ultra extended version will be about 500 hours 😂
@@factorfantasyweekly Yesssss🤩
@@factorfantasyweeklywith the advancements in AI we will perhaps get the entire book trilogy true to form in the very near future.
Movies vs Manuscripts in Game of Thrones would be sick. And a thousand episodes long.
Very true idk if I could handle that 😂
Woulda been nice to see more of the books scenes. On this one here . Thanks for doing this for us. :)
At least Tom Bombadil and the Old Forest Entebate was correctly cut, with a broken character and most boring part of the whole history. Still, wish we had at least a few more minutes regarding this part of the orcs and uruk-hai interactions. Instead we got all that stuf from The Hobbit in 3 movies...
Love the vid! It's always sad knowing how much of the Orcs and Uruks was cut out, we know one's stronger than the other in the film but they still seem really low intelligence, in the books you can see a bit more of their smarts like knowing that Saruman is in this for himself or that the forest is the best place to hide from the riders which in the film isn't conveyed so much, we hear they smell man flesh but we just assume it's about Aragorn and co and not the Rohirrim, if anything in the film it almost takes away from their intelligence as they're right there, surely they could camp or at least hide in the forest so the horsemen would struggle to keep formation and find them, in there they could pick them off if they played their cards right
This drink that the Uruk hai gives him, is actually a drink that heals and gives strength for fighting and long marches. After a few sips the hobbit felt no more pain from the wound. But the effect of that drug or drink stopped after a few hours!
For those have spent the last fifty years or more, readingthe trilogy, the Uruks are so well realised, they are exactly how you imagine them. Badass, supersoldiers, with a warped sense of humour
That part about Orcs of the Misty Mountains seeking revenge for their chieftain's is also the reason for their presence in the Battle of the Five Armies in the Hobbit book. They WERE NOT serving Sauron!
Pippin wasn't goofy, he was clever.
This encapsulates what Jackson does wrong in this film.
The battle of Helms Deep is one chapter. It’s a great chapter, one of the best in the entirety of lord of the rings, but it’s one chapter.
But Jackson cuts most of the orc-and-hobbit section, most of the Fangorn section, most of the pursuit, etc.
So the main plot and character movement is replaced with battle that goes on and on.
It’s way out of balance, and chucks most of merry and pippins character development . It’s why this was my least favorite of the three films.
Vut the "aragon is dead" sublet, and you have time for this.
It's okay, Rings of Power is fleshing out those conversations...
I guess the Orcs don't have a dental plan to get their teeth clean.
I always imagined that the orc drink would look and taste like Jägermeister
I disagree on one point of this EXCELLENT interpretation and presentation.
I think the Orcs are 100% Mordor-oriented and driven; they want the hobbits to take them per their orders. While it's unlikely that Grishnakh is actually speaking of Sauron himself, rather his commanders' intent, or orders from their Orcish chain of command.
In opposition, the Uruks are 100% Isengard oriented, and totally loyal to Saruman.
In my opinion, that's exactly what this scene is prefacing. THANK YOU for this insightful and authoritative breakdown, very well done and much appreciated!
awesome video!
Jacksons alterations are fine for me. especially the ones regarding the groups or orcs and uruks.
however, the chasing over the plains by aragorn gimli and legolas dont look quite that demanding. running for 3 days and nights would draw a toll on all three characters. Legolas seems worried tho, like in the books. while aragorn keeps moral up and gimli rolling down cliffs... instead of confessing hes exhausted. like the decent dwarf with some character ark. that gimli actually is.
but gimli rolling is my only real critic here
The animated movie had a lot of cuts to but did spend more time showing the hobbits captivity leading into their escape.
the Two Towers is my favorite movie in the LotR series. I love how badass the Uruk-Hai is and their look is just awesome! And the Helms deep fight is my all-time favorite "battle-scene" in any movie. man i gotta watch the movies again!
Helm’s Deep is epic 🔥
I have some things to say about my experience with this movie from discovering it to finally watching the part 3
"Im Starvin.... We aint had nuffin but Maggoty Bread for Threeee Stinkinn Daaaysssss!!!!" 😤😤😤
I think for me, the biggest difference beyond things like Pippin being way more of a badass during this time than in the book, is that Rohan is quite noticeable different. In stead of grassy plains (perfect for, e.g. riding horses) there is this sort of mildly undulating terrain with rocky areas braking through all over the place (not so perfect for riding horses across). Even though I know the reasons why it looks like this, from the docs on the extended edition dvds, it sorta stands out to me still to this day. Not to be too picky of course.
Anyway, not sure if this would class as a location difference but its something I notice.
"Let's recap what happens in this scene."
"THEY'RE TAKING THE HOBBITS TO ISENGARD!"
Although there are some truly mind-boggling changes that Jackson makes in the films, which either directly contradict lore from the books, or are pointless, the changes he made for this section were pretty understandable. He manages to convey the more important events taking place during this section of the book, and does so with a fairly small amount of screen time, which was obviously important given the one film per book limitation that they were working with
Great vid
While as a fan of the books I would love to have seen more of Merry's and Pippin's development especially when it comes to the Scouring of the Shire, I think Jackson made decent alterations in adapting them for the screen. Sure some things were altered or left out, but no film can be a scene for scene remake of such a long set of books. Some parts of the book slow the film's pace or just aren't that critical compared to saving a minute of run time, so you can get something else in that is more interesting visually or more critical to the plot.
have you ever thought about doing a series about how Lord of the Rings Online follows the story line up to mordor & even beyond the destruction of the ring.
Might be fun to do on the gaming channel!
Misty Mountains orcs removal? Totally fair for the movie. And I'll give Jackson credit here for omitting Pippin's quick thinking here-keeping him the "Fool of a Took" might have played into it, but it wasn't necessary for the film and it was a beat they didn't really have time for, so it was omitted. I do miss since it's one of the ways the books show Pippin is starting to grow up a bit.
The movie changes how he leaves a sign for Aragorn in a way that isn't very believable IMO since at least one of the uruks would've noticed this and realized what he was doing. They're brutish, not stupid.
Jackson really dropped the ball here. The orc dialog in the books is precious. It only occurs in a few places, but it gives us great insight into their culture and their view of the war. It's quite amusing at times as well. What really makes a good villain in the movies is dialog, so that the audience can get to know the villain. But there are so few in Lord of the Rings--Sauron of course, but he only says one or two sentences in the books, which we hear second hand, Saruman, whom we get to hear from, Gollum, and the orcs. By excluding so much of this material, Jackson dumbed down the movie and missed opportunities for it to be much, much better than it was.
The Witchking is a character in book and film.
@@Ian6245 Sure, and he also only has a few lines in the book.
@@NigelIncubatorJones
And he only has a couple of lines in the film.......
@@keyser_söze23 Yes. Which is why Jackson should have used as much of the orc dialog from the books as he possibly could. But nope, another missed opportunity, one of many.
Note the guy drinking from a bottle with the cork still in...
😂
We aren’t there yet, but when Pippin gets nearly stomped by the horse his hands are completely untied, and then after he rolls they are tied. And it’s like the most obvious thing ever 😂
I don't know which movie you were watching?! I saw all of those bits.
The theatrical cuts even more of the conversations between the orcs and the Uruks. It's almost jarring in the theatrical cut how fast the scene moves and it's one of my favorite moments from the extended edition film. The same thing happens with Frodo and Sam navigating Emyn Muil before they encounter Gollum and I think the theatrical cut loses alot from these omissions.
I don’t know if I have ever seen the theatrical version, so this is good to know.
I was always disappointed with these movies.
Because I didn't want them to end. I will always want more of them.