I started doing Alp du Zwift pretty regularly. It hurts, but the results are undeniable. I also did the 6 week FTP training on Zwift and that has had some great returns.
It depends on where I am in my build cycle during the year, but I'd say anywhere up to a total of 2 hours spent at Z4 split over 2-3 sessions in a big training week
I disagree. I think it's fine to go hard for the first 30 sec to get the body up to speed, up to FTP HR more quickly. Like pushing on the pedal on a freeway onramp then backing off once you're up to speed. Else in an hour-long TT, you're wasting time in the first minute.
I never cease to be impressed at just how naturally Si can present while on his bike. Maybe it requires multiple takes that we never see, but it’s amazing watching him deliver his lines so smoothly, while riding 👍
I did a lot of zone 4 when I was young. Didn't get me very far. Now I do zone 4 for a few seconds when I go from zone 2 to zone 5. Thats all I need. I'm 60 now and faster than at 35. And feel better between trainings as well. 🙋♂️
I find I struggle most with zone 2 riding outdoors, it is so easy to go a little bit faster only to realize you've spent half the commute above 90% of max hr... Riding fast is fun 😅 Turbo trainer in ERG mode and a good movie is my recipe for zone 2...
@@h20s8804 it’s only when your zone 2 is not developed. The more your train the more speed and ability to cruise over different gradients you unlock. It worth to focus on it. You’ll be rewarded with much more fun later. I know it, I started from just over 2w/kg more than five years ago, now it is close to 3.5. Day and night. You can climb in z2 (if not too steep). You can easily ride over 30 kph staying aerobic. But you need to deserve it.
@@indjke What I mean is, I always want to push harder. It's a personality thing, not ability. I find it easier to do zone 2 workouts on the trainer, ERG mode.
I cycled with a HRM for the first time today, just covering a regular route. Obvs my zones aren't perfectly set up, but I was amazed at how difficult it was to stay in Zone 2. Most of my ride was in Zone 3 and 4. Also the delay in getting my HR reading made it a bit difficult to know what my HR actually was at a point in time. My HR seemed to occasionally bump up to well above my thumbsuck max (220-age), and I'm not sure if that was accurate or a result of the wrist-based measure occasionally being out of wack. And if it was accurate, was it me pushing it quite hard or a result of my AFib. I'll keep playing with it because it'll take some work for the HRM to be a useful training tool
Simon, I really love a lot to content you are providing on GCN. The videos on zone 2 and zone 4 training have really been helpful. But all this zone stuff is a bit confusing as Strava, Garmin etc. seem be a bit different in how the designate their zones. It would be great to have a video that discusses all the zones and perhaps the difference across various platforms. My biggest challenge is that while I try to ride in zone 2 based on my Garmin, I end up with the majority of time in zone 3. Based on the question you posed to Dr Inigo San Millan, zone 3 is training no man's land. Love to learn more about all the zones, the benefits of each and advise on how to better managed things if you are struggling to stay in zone 2
Don't know if it's the same on Garmin, but with my wahoo I can tweak the ranges so that platforms match - although I've found that across TrainerRoad, strava, Wahoo, and intervals, they're all within a couple of Watts for each Zone. One piece of advice is to say that for Zone 2 riding don't aim for the very top of it, you'll end up balancing on the edge of Z2 and Z3. So for example, my Zone 2/3 transition happens at arounf 200W, so I aim for 180/190W. It then stay primarily in z2. Another issue is that, any climbs are likely to force you to work harder. Particularly if your threshold is relatively low vs body weight - just consciously try to keep the effort low.
@@serpadu Unfortunately there is no 'correct' zone model that fits everyone, which is why there are so many variations. If you're working with a coach or coaching platform then it makes sense to stick to the zone model that they recommend as they will base your training on it.
These videos from Si are - and have been - absolutely brilliant. They are so thorough and well-described. Hoping this important blend of analysis and execution toward training through focused videos continues. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Si rocks!
Thanks Jim! Si loves talking zone training 🙌 It's a great way of doing some structured training that you can really see the difference from. Have you found that these videos have helped you improve your riding? 🚴
I am a long time cyclist and ride most days out of the week. I have mostly latched on to the zone 2 mantra and generally don't participate in fast group rides these days...but like to hammer from time to time if a fast guy comes by...or riding with small group of fast friends. The other day I was trying to hold the wheel of a rider at 22-23mph...I am 69 y.o. and my heart rate kept rising and hit 165 bpm...and stayed there for a mile or two and then I had to fall off because it was a bit too much. A couple of years ago, I could hold this speed or a bit higher. So I have lost fitness by not doing hardly any zone 4. I have a fast heart rate for my age and always have. I guestimate my max heart rate is still about 190bpm or so....nowhere close to 220 - age. My resting heart rate is about 50 or so when I wake up. So zone 2 is great and my overall fitness is good...but...without high intensity training I have lost my power up top. Totally agree with the video. Don't forget zone 4 training if you want to be the best you can be. Thanks Si.
I’m pushing 60 myself & have become aware of the need to increase protein consumption to avoid sarcopenia that happens with age, also need to lift heavy things. I’m starting to work with KAATSU using Blood flow restriction to help.
I’m 62, I only ever max out at 155. Can’t seem to top that. And my HR settles into a high z2 rather easily even on fast group rides. I’m live in a mountainous area, it’s the climbs that get me to a sustained z4/z5 hr But maintaining it, I lack the leg power. Any suggestions?
I like framing zones in terms of time (Z4 = 1h power, Z3=3h, Z5=5min, etc) because you can check yourself at midway points. As in, "can i sustain this effort for another 45 min... for another 20..." Framing zones that way also gets my mind accustomed to listening to my muscles efforts and my minds ability to mediate and pace. When my legs are yelling out their complaints all I hear is effort. Listening to my heart rate teaches me to pace, but it doesn't teach me how to tell my legs to shut up.
I like this approach too, however for me my breathing rate is the most immediate feedback I get on level of effort. That said, I don't have any tech yet.
Well done, Si. XC MTB is a fantastic way to get in Zone 4 training. On my trails, it's difficult to NOT be in Zone 4. I've actually been thinking about this topic for the last several weeks. Anecdotally, I can tell you that I swapped a lot of my Zone 4 training for Zone 2 over the last year, and with all other things being equal, my fitness has noticeably suffered because of it. I am gradually reverting to type.
@@claytonmuller21 All of my Zone 4 was XC MTB about twice a week but that's as structured as I would get with it. But this last year I pretty much kept my running and indoor rides in Zone 2. I tried to do 80/20. However, I'm in my early 50s now and intensity becomes much more important as you get older. (See Joel Friel's "Fast After 50" book.) I'll be bringing my intensity percentages back to where I've had them for the last 20+ years and hopefully I'll get back to where I was. But this is all very individual. What works for me may not work for anyone else.
Agreed. I very rarely can stay in z2 when on my mtb trails. Z3 for flats, z4 for singletrack climbing and descending. Means i actually need to be intentional with the z2 workouts as it never happens organically.
Great stuff and review as always Si. Finished my end of workout plan Wahoo 4DP test today. So this video is timely :). Balance workouts using a platform like Zwift/Wahoo that gets you in the correct zones is key, but, riding outside and focusing on your ones is really effective as well. Recovery sessions are also key
Really nice vid guys. First half the year fitness rebuild i just did zone 2. Since adding in a weekly 60min sweetspot session + x1 interval at FTP have gained about 30-40W since beginning of summer. Let’s hope it never stalls 😂
Yeah thats the brilliant thing: you dont need to do a lot, i do about 4 10min Blocks in z4 per week to Kickstart the metabolism and get the heart ready. For some time a nice base in z2 and z3 and then adding the last bit of intensity. Did it this semesterbreak (6 weeks), the last 2 with intensity and went from 290 to 332 in ftp. Works fantastic to get the System ready for a fitness test
@@gcn Definitely. I think just down to the specificity and time spent in zone. Mileage and hours haven’t really changed. I’ll keep using alpe de Zwift for that session and see where it takes me.
What everybody fails to mention is how much rest you should be having between intervals. I've figured what works for me through trial and error but that kind of info is pretty important yet never mentioned
Zone 2 killed my gains last winter! 150 minutes zone 2 ride at least once a week is enough. Lots of unders, overs this winter, with a sprinkle of V02 Max 😰
Thank you. Excellent. GCN’s most credible presenter, great work. 78 years your and riding a few ‘00km each week, … I think the heart rate monitor may be hitting the Visa card very soon, thank you Simon and GCN team.
In my experience balance is key. Mon, Wed, Fri, & Sun = Z2 for 1.5 hrs to 2 hrs Tues & Thurs = Z4, Z5, or Z6 for 1 hr to 1.5 hrs Sat = outdoors 100+km / have fun Sometimes Sunday is a recovery ride day.
@@gcnAlmost entirely on the trainer. It's hard to get a proper workout in around a full time job and with kids. Usually it's a lunch workout and an evening workout after the kid is asleep.
Huge fan of Zwift. Lots of experience using all its features. I've recently learned several things while training with pro-level coaches, 2 of which seem appropriate to the topic at hand. 1. When using a structured workout, try using incline mode to simulate a freestyle ride. Yes, it levels the resistance but it requires you to focus and feel the resistance, forcing you to generate power on your own. That's good practice. Personally, I toggle between Incline and ERG in a workout depending on the objective workout and how I am feeling. 2. When you use a trainer, you get a different training experience when using your small chainring vs your large chainring. In simple terms, using your large chainring causes a higher flywheel momentum and makes it a bit easier to sustain high power. Conversely, using the small ring requires you to work harder. Conclusion? Better workout on the small ring. Of course, using your small chainring to push higher power is made easier when using a structured workout 🤷♀️ Ride on 🚴♀️
My add on advice is make sure you have a high protein meal ready for after to help recovery. I also use compression tights to sleep in after hard efforts but my wife thinks I look like a ballet dancer, she is probably correct.....
I found a simple training plan online years ago which could add in zone 4 training. It consists of one fast ride (I created my own 10 mile tt route for that), one steady ride which was a bit longer distance (zone 2 maybe?), and a longer ride at the weekend, gradually building up the miles for a distance goal over 8 weeks, with the odd workout or shorter rides on rest days, works for me.
@@gcn I noticed it soon after I started cycling about 9 years ago. It is a 100 mile training plan over 8 weeks, but I reduced it to 25 miles to start with, then 50, then 100. I've went back to it on and off, but it's been over 2 years since I did my last 100. It's certainly kept me motivated 🙂
I’m a runner as well as a cyclist, for running I do a 4 week block which is 2 weeks medium, 1 week hard and 1 week easy then repeat. I use perceived effort to judge how hard to go, one big learning has been to make easy runs super easy and hard actually hard! For riding I think that 80% in Zone 2 and 20% in Zone 4 is basically the same pattern so I apply that. Most of my riding, for convenience, is on Zwift but I do a group ride on a Sunday which is always more relaxed and adds a social element.
Best about Zwift is that you can safely race and go for your limits. FTP tests and vo2max training is good but nothing beats race since then you get your mind into game and you can go faster getting all out of you.
The only nice quiet riding near me in the local hills and I doubt there's a single zone I don't hit in any one outing.... A prolonged zone 2 feels almost mythical!
If I leave my ego at the door I can climb an 8% gradient in zone 2. Put on a 11-32 cassette and stand out of saddle. It’s embarrassing to only do 10 kmh, but I’d rather do that than be indoors.
On most of my routes there's a 15% section - I mean I love the mix but some days it would be nice to think of just heading out on a nice flat, steady jaunt :)
Well the rule says 80:20 So 80% zone 2 20% zone 3 or 4 There is no scientific proof that doing 3 or 4 is better then each other for increasing FTP. So just make that 15% bit your little block. Because there is no way that can be done in zone 2@@Z-u-m-a
I live on the West Coast of Canada. Long climbs are a dime a dozen out here near the Coastal Mountains, so finding good zone 4 training hills is dead easy here. :-)
@@chrisridesbicyclesthose sorts of hills kick the butts of those only used to the long steady state mountains though. There's an art to riding the UK hills quickly that not many manage easily master IMHO
@@chrisridesbicycles British Columbia has the Rocky Mountains in the East, and the Coastal Mountains in the West, and most of the land in-between is foothills. There isn't much flat land in the entire province! That's lucky, or unlucky, depending on your feeling about hill-climbing! ;) I like hill-climbing so I'm here for it, but there are dissenters out there. :P If you haven't travelled much in North America, the scale of it can be shocking to Europeans. For example, British Columbia (just one province of 10 in Canada) is about the size of the British Isles and France *put together*.
@@TobiMcTobeface Perhaps some day I'll get the opportunity to travel to the UK and see for myself. Put my muscle fibres, trained on long protracted climbs, to the short/steep test. :)
I totally have display envy for your Zwift set up. Enjoyed the video too 🙂 I personally do most intervals at 105% FTP for intervals 3-5 minutes in length and 120% of FTP for 60s to 90s intervals. I rarely do intervals longer in length than 5 minutes. I do try to do 2 interval workouts, 1 steady tempo (85-90% of FTP) workout, and several Z2 workouts per week for a total of 12-14 hours/week. Each workout is generally 90 minutes in length except for long ride day. Life is complicated recently by having a cardiac pacemaker installed a few weeks ago that tends to induce heart rate spikes to maximum pacing rate during interval workouts that can last for up to 10 minutes. For context, I'll be 69 next month.
I made a ‘reverse ladders’ workout in Zwift ( as recommended by you ) and let me tell you 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 haha loved it. I do one zone 4 long blocks, one vo2 max short intervals 2 zone two, 1 zone two with sprints at the end, one long ride and one free ride/torque/OTT/for fun ride per week. I was looking back the other day at my previous training and saw that during Covid I was doing 3/ day. Wtaf. Did we all just go crazy for two years??? Ps nothing inspires me more to jump on my bike than videos like these. Love.
fits in perfectly for me as I saw in my recent time trials what I was lacking of... was almost only doing 2 and 5. and only ocasionally 4...would love to see you having Dr San Milan on that one for his views...
A natural ride for me is 10 minutes in zone 1 and and 2, then I hit the hill with 18 minutes in borderline zone 3 to 4, then its flat, back to zone 2 for 15 minutes, and a new climb to the forest-cafe(Brunkollen 370 meters above sea level) , maybe 30 minutes in zone 3 and 4. Then coffestop, and finally descending home, 45 minutes in zone2. Feels like good training. The other way around starting in zone two and the hard bit later is difficult to do because I live close to sealevel. I have a relative ( Even Sæteren Hippe) that probably did the other way around because he lived at a farm high in the hillside. He got extremly fit , and once he became World Champion in team sprint roller skiing cross country.
Well done, zone Barbra has been favorite training zone since I got serious about training a year and a half ago! Need some time on your hands in an urban setting- working by traveling 100km and 1000m at 30km. It takes some time to build the fitness to but as long as I've followed the rule, every 10km traveled - climb 1000+ meters and I've been in my tempo ride.
I find training in the middle zones really hard. When I do sweet spot intervals which should be below Z4 it can happen that the HR reaches almost the maximum but at the same time I can sing along with my playlist.
Do mountain biking my heart rate never sees below 140-150 unless I stop when I hit trails. Its HARD. I won't ever touch an indoor trainer, snow, rain, cold I'm out there. Also weight lifting helps with slow twitch, as does the occasional bout of circuit or HIT. You can arrange weights to be done one after the other and keep cycling a set of 6-8 different exercises, weights, calesthenics whatever taking maybe a 1-2 minute break in between each set. You will see zone 4 if you do it fast enough.
I'm lucky enough to have an amazing bike commute (Nyack, NY to New York City) where there are 2 excellent routes. One is great for zone 5 intervals (4 min z5/ 2 min break x4 - 10 minute break - repeat) and the other is perfect for a 2x20 at zone 4ish. Both are fine for zone 2. If this wasn't how I got home from work, I'd never stick to a training plan.
The Maximum Metabolic Steady State. Rolls off the tongue. Just like an Australian road train going off a cliff cab first. Ten minutes later the last trailer lands on the cab.
Oh man I’m just trying to ride my bike on a flat terrain and it’s already hard enough that I feel I’m in zone 10, or zone Ron Jeremy I have decided to call it.
In this regard, I'm quite lucky to live where I do. I have vast flat plains immediately to the north and huge mountains immediately to the south. Plains are good for long efforts in zones 2 and 3, as there are plenty of straight, almost empty roads. Some roads are like 60km without turns, which is great for pacing your effort. On the other hand, there are some extremely steep climbs in the mountains, along with some long, not so steep ones and mtb trails. It's just difficult not to be in zone 4 on most of the climbs. Some even require to do a max effort, and some are too steep for me to ride up. There are climbs that are comparable to epic Alps ones. For instance, there is one road that goes from 1000m of elevation to 3200m. And it's not including dirt roads. Some of those go to over 3500 meters.
Si, great vid, any chance you might do a piece on cycling injuries to make people aware... for example I'm susceptible to rhabdomyolysis due to a muscle condition which I (sort of) understand now,but I'm sure things like DOMS or other fatigue related issues would be of benefit.
I feel ridiculous saying this, but with so many variables affecting a ride: sleep, caffeine, food intake, liquid, stress, time of day, weather, sickness, etc., I honestly really struggle to determine whether I'm actually improving.
If you don’t need sprinting you don’t need any zone 4 block training. You can do zone 3 instead. The problem for me is staying in zone 2 for 80% of the time. Riding in zone 3 is just so much more fun.
I train one day all out at a rate I can maintain for 10 miles on a certain route that has hills etc and then medium paced 20 miles and then an easy 30+ miles each week....
Hi Simon! Is there a specific advantage for Zone Barbara over Zone Lucifer (6) or do you basically recommend it to throw something different into the mix? (compared to a classic polorized approach with 8-9hours Zone 2 and 1 hour smashing yourself/ going through hell)
What should I do to prepair before training hard? do I need a rest day before hard training session? How much or recommend amount of nutrition to taking in? Or I should go out hard after a cup of black coffee in the warm morning.
I believe you can also training zone 4 to cycling with a backpack with extra weight inside start with 5kg and build it up 😂 the next you feel much lighter and stronger 😂
How do you incorporate Z4 in a season long narrative? Is it better to focus on Z4 during specific blocks or is it better to spread it out around the season? Given that it is best to not do more than 3 hard sessions a week for recreational cyclists, it is difficult to fit bits of everything in.
The last time I was in zone 4 was when I was doing strength only and had to run for the bus. Am I the only person that doesn’t get zwift? I prefer music for my training. I tried it and I feel like I don’t get it cause everyone seems to love it
I’m 62 years old and any time I go out on my bike or for a run, I’m always up in zone 4 and zone 5. I find it difficult to get down to zone 2 and 3. My recovery heart rate is really good. I never seem to feel tired the next day, but I’m sure it will catch up on me at some point. Am I putting myself at risk?
you havent mentioned how much recovery after each effort? 4 x 8 mins but how much recovery after each one? also for the 3 x 10 mins and 2 x 20 mins? thanks
I must disagree with one of your first statements, that zone four is 90% of your maximum heart rate. Between 90 to 100% is zone five, zone four is then 80 to 90%.
In general how could one train zone 4 indoor when not having access to a wahoo and zwift. Would a spinning bike do the job as well? Missing out of course on the Strava measurements
I like matching my lactate threshold with as high heartrate as I can reach. When lactate levels get too high, I gear down and pedal faster. And when when lactate levels go down I gear up to push harder. I don't know what this zone is called? Race Zone?
How much zone 4 training do you do? 📊
80/20 2/4
More than I plan. I often push myself, I can't help it.
I started doing Alp du Zwift pretty regularly. It hurts, but the results are undeniable. I also did the 6 week FTP training on Zwift and that has had some great returns.
It depends on where I am in my build cycle during the year, but I'd say anywhere up to a total of 2 hours spent at Z4 split over 2-3 sessions in a big training week
Zone 5 is the king
zone 4 is where i do all my zone 2 training
Hahaha so true
I’m with you- takes half the time as well.
zone 2 can actually be more fun than zone 4. if you go for longer rides
Brilliant
Says backwards hat Dylan
"Don't go looking for the effort, wait for the effort to come to you." Great advice.
Literally why i ride fixed gear
I disagree. I think it's fine to go hard for the first 30 sec to get the body up to speed, up to FTP HR more quickly. Like pushing on the pedal on a freeway onramp then backing off once you're up to speed. Else in an hour-long TT, you're wasting time in the first minute.
Stop training and everything will come to you as zone 4
@@larrylem3582taking 30 seconds to get to your FTP isn't riding hard😂
I'm stealing this
I never cease to be impressed at just how naturally Si can present while on his bike. Maybe it requires multiple takes that we never see, but it’s amazing watching him deliver his lines so smoothly, while riding 👍
He's a true pro! One take Si strikes again 🏹
I train in Z2 and Z4 at the same time. 😂 Z2 by power meter and Z4 by heart rate🙈
Isn't better to do zone 2 with hrm?
The other benefit to Zwift for training (for me at least) is that in Zwift I don't have to worry about leaving enough in the tank to get back home.
I like my emtb for that! Boost mode home, no assist for higher zones
Hahahah yes very true! When you bonk you can just raid the kitchen cupboards 👀
I did a lot of zone 4 when I was young. Didn't get me very far. Now I do zone 4 for a few seconds when I go from zone 2 to zone 5. Thats all I need. I'm 60 now and faster than at 35. And feel better between trainings as well. 🙋♂️
I find I struggle most with zone 2 riding outdoors, it is so easy to go a little bit faster only to realize you've spent half the commute above 90% of max hr... Riding fast is fun 😅 Turbo trainer in ERG mode and a good movie is my recipe for zone 2...
Or REALLY long rides, where getting thr pacing wrong leafs to failure - the 5+ hour marker
I almost can't stay in zone 2 outdoors.... Must be totally flat. Dull as hell.
@@h20s8804 it’s only when your zone 2 is not developed. The more your train the more speed and ability to cruise over different gradients you unlock. It worth to focus on it. You’ll be rewarded with much more fun later.
I know it, I started from just over 2w/kg more than five years ago, now it is close to 3.5. Day and night. You can climb in z2 (if not too steep). You can easily ride over 30 kph staying aerobic. But you need to deserve it.
@@indjke What I mean is, I always want to push harder. It's a personality thing, not ability. I find it easier to do zone 2 workouts on the trainer, ERG mode.
I cycled with a HRM for the first time today, just covering a regular route. Obvs my zones aren't perfectly set up, but I was amazed at how difficult it was to stay in Zone 2. Most of my ride was in Zone 3 and 4. Also the delay in getting my HR reading made it a bit difficult to know what my HR actually was at a point in time. My HR seemed to occasionally bump up to well above my thumbsuck max (220-age), and I'm not sure if that was accurate or a result of the wrist-based measure occasionally being out of wack. And if it was accurate, was it me pushing it quite hard or a result of my AFib. I'll keep playing with it because it'll take some work for the HRM to be a useful training tool
Simon, I really love a lot to content you are providing on GCN. The videos on zone 2 and zone 4 training have really been helpful. But all this zone stuff is a bit confusing as Strava, Garmin etc. seem be a bit different in how the designate their zones. It would be great to have a video that discusses all the zones and perhaps the difference across various platforms. My biggest challenge is that while I try to ride in zone 2 based on my Garmin, I end up with the majority of time in zone 3. Based on the question you posed to Dr Inigo San Millan, zone 3 is training no man's land. Love to learn more about all the zones, the benefits of each and advise on how to better managed things if you are struggling to stay in zone 2
Don't know if it's the same on Garmin, but with my wahoo I can tweak the ranges so that platforms match - although I've found that across TrainerRoad, strava, Wahoo, and intervals, they're all within a couple of Watts for each Zone.
One piece of advice is to say that for Zone 2 riding don't aim for the very top of it, you'll end up balancing on the edge of Z2 and Z3.
So for example, my Zone 2/3 transition happens at arounf 200W, so I aim for 180/190W. It then stay primarily in z2.
Another issue is that, any climbs are likely to force you to work harder. Particularly if your threshold is relatively low vs body weight - just consciously try to keep the effort low.
You can set you FTP on Garmin, Strava etc and set the zones so they're the same 👌🏻
@@lianejackson7170 Sure, but then, which one is the correct one to make it standard?
@@serpadu Look up Coggan. They're derived from his work
@@serpadu Unfortunately there is no 'correct' zone model that fits everyone, which is why there are so many variations. If you're working with a coach or coaching platform then it makes sense to stick to the zone model that they recommend as they will base your training on it.
Zone 4 is all I do and I'm not even ashamed.
Same, can't stay in Z2 to save my life 😂
its all you need. most cyclists are using “zone 2” training as an excuse to not push themselves
Good luck not plateauing and burning out
João I've been riding since I was 13. Of course I have plateaued. Burned out, on the other hand, not so much.@@jc74435
Maybe what he means to say is he only trains in zone 4, and everything else is for enjoyment?
These videos from Si are - and have been - absolutely brilliant. They are so thorough and well-described. Hoping this important blend of analysis and execution toward training through focused videos continues. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Si rocks!
Thanks Jim! Si loves talking zone training 🙌 It's a great way of doing some structured training that you can really see the difference from. Have you found that these videos have helped you improve your riding? 🚴
I am a long time cyclist and ride most days out of the week. I have mostly latched on to the zone 2 mantra and generally don't participate in fast group rides these days...but like to hammer from time to time if a fast guy comes by...or riding with small group of fast friends.
The other day I was trying to hold the wheel of a rider at 22-23mph...I am 69 y.o. and my heart rate kept rising and hit 165 bpm...and stayed there for a mile or two and then I had to fall off because it was a bit too much. A couple of years ago, I could hold this speed or a bit higher.
So I have lost fitness by not doing hardly any zone 4. I have a fast heart rate for my age and always have. I guestimate my max heart rate is still about 190bpm or so....nowhere close to 220 - age. My resting heart rate is about 50 or so when I wake up.
So zone 2 is great and my overall fitness is good...but...without high intensity training I have lost my power up top. Totally agree with the video. Don't forget zone 4 training if you want to be the best you can be. Thanks Si.
I’m pushing 60 myself & have become aware of the need to increase protein consumption to avoid sarcopenia that happens with age, also need to lift heavy things. I’m starting to work with KAATSU using Blood flow restriction to help.
I’m 62, I only ever max out at 155. Can’t seem to top that. And my HR settles into a high z2 rather easily even on fast group rides. I’m live in a mountainous area, it’s the climbs that get me to a sustained z4/z5 hr
But maintaining it, I lack the leg power. Any suggestions?
I like framing zones in terms of time (Z4 = 1h power, Z3=3h, Z5=5min, etc) because you can check yourself at midway points. As in, "can i sustain this effort for another 45 min... for another 20..."
Framing zones that way also gets my mind accustomed to listening to my muscles efforts and my minds ability to mediate and pace.
When my legs are yelling out their complaints all I hear is effort. Listening to my heart rate teaches me to pace, but it doesn't teach me how to tell my legs to shut up.
I like this approach too, however for me my breathing rate is the most immediate feedback I get on level of effort. That said, I don't have any tech yet.
That’s amazing. I go from resting to
Max HR immediately!
Well done, Si. XC MTB is a fantastic way to get in Zone 4 training. On my trails, it's difficult to NOT be in Zone 4. I've actually been thinking about this topic for the last several weeks. Anecdotally, I can tell you that I swapped a lot of my Zone 4 training for Zone 2 over the last year, and with all other things being equal, my fitness has noticeably suffered because of it. I am gradually reverting to type.
Did you do any structured VO2 training alongside the zone 2? If so, do you keep doing it when doing Zone 4 instead of Zone 2?
@@claytonmuller21 All of my Zone 4 was XC MTB about twice a week but that's as structured as I would get with it. But this last year I pretty much kept my running and indoor rides in Zone 2. I tried to do 80/20. However, I'm in my early 50s now and intensity becomes much more important as you get older. (See Joel Friel's "Fast After 50" book.) I'll be bringing my intensity percentages back to where I've had them for the last 20+ years and hopefully I'll get back to where I was. But this is all very individual. What works for me may not work for anyone else.
Agreed. I very rarely can stay in z2 when on my mtb trails. Z3 for flats, z4 for singletrack climbing and descending.
Means i actually need to be intentional with the z2 workouts as it never happens organically.
Zone 1: I'm having fun
Zone 2: I'm pushing it hard
Zone 3: I cry
Zone 4: I cry even more
Zone 5? Zone 6?
You sure you got those zones right? 😂
You cry in zone 3? I can't stay out of zone 3 that's cruising effort
Great stuff and review as always Si. Finished my end of workout plan Wahoo 4DP test today. So this video is timely :). Balance workouts using a platform like Zwift/Wahoo that gets you in the correct zones is key, but, riding outside and focusing on your ones is really effective as well. Recovery sessions are also key
Really nice vid guys. First half the year fitness rebuild i just did zone 2. Since adding in a weekly 60min sweetspot session + x1 interval at FTP have gained about 30-40W since beginning of summer. Let’s hope it never stalls 😂
Really impressive! Have been riding harder than that as a beginner this summer and only added 10W 😭
@@mattwood9130 am sure it’ll come mate. I barely moved for ages 6 months before that then suddenly did a little step up.
Yeah thats the brilliant thing: you dont need to do a lot, i do about 4 10min Blocks in z4 per week to Kickstart the metabolism and get the heart ready. For some time a nice base in z2 and z3 and then adding the last bit of intensity. Did it this semesterbreak (6 weeks), the last 2 with intensity and went from 290 to 332 in ftp. Works fantastic to get the System ready for a fitness test
Wow that is some impressive fitness gain! 🙌 Do you think some sweet spots have been the catalyst for the FTP boost?
@@gcn Definitely. I think just down to the specificity and time spent in zone. Mileage and hours haven’t really changed. I’ll keep using alpe de Zwift for that session and see where it takes me.
What everybody fails to mention is how much rest you should be having between intervals. I've figured what works for me through trial and error but that kind of info is pretty important yet never mentioned
As short as possible... 2 to 3 min - or when heart rate drops below 70%max.
Should be half of the interval length @50%ftp
1 minute spin for every 5 minutes of effort@@frankschouren3087
I get inordinately happy when I see it's a Si one
If you do Z4 indoors make sure you have a good fan.
I’ve been training for Gatlingburg Tennessee to Clingmans Dome on Zwift. I created some workouts. The latest being 8 x 8min in zone 4.
8 x 8 mins! Too much !
Where I live, it's just short rolling hills over and over, I do zone 3/4 very frequently just cause I have to on an uphill
Zone 2 killed my gains last winter! 150 minutes zone 2 ride at least once a week is enough.
Lots of unders, overs this winter, with a sprinkle of V02 Max 😰
Thank you. Excellent. GCN’s most credible presenter, great work. 78 years your and riding a few ‘00km each week, … I think the heart rate monitor may be hitting the Visa card very soon, thank you Simon and GCN team.
Awesome to hear that you've been riding for so long 🙌 Once you get a heart rate monitor you'll find it opens up so much training to you!
In my experience balance is key.
Mon, Wed, Fri, & Sun = Z2 for 1.5 hrs to 2 hrs
Tues & Thurs = Z4, Z5, or Z6 for 1 hr to 1.5 hrs
Sat = outdoors 100+km / have fun
Sometimes Sunday is a recovery ride day.
Sunday funday! We like the sound of that 🙌 How do you fit those workouts in, turbo or out on the road?
@@gcnAlmost entirely on the trainer. It's hard to get a proper workout in around a full time job and with kids.
Usually it's a lunch workout and an evening workout after the kid is asleep.
I love the scenery today. I didn't recognize much of it from previous videos.
Huge fan of Zwift. Lots of experience using all its features. I've recently learned several things while training with pro-level coaches, 2 of which seem appropriate to the topic at hand. 1. When using a structured workout, try using incline mode to simulate a freestyle ride. Yes, it levels the resistance but it requires you to focus and feel the resistance, forcing you to generate power on your own. That's good practice. Personally, I toggle between Incline and ERG in a workout depending on the objective workout and how I am feeling. 2. When you use a trainer, you get a different training experience when using your small chainring vs your large chainring. In simple terms, using your large chainring causes a higher flywheel momentum and makes it a bit easier to sustain high power. Conversely, using the small ring requires you to work harder. Conclusion? Better workout on the small ring. Of course, using your small chainring to push higher power is made easier when using a structured workout 🤷♀️ Ride on 🚴♀️
I will call it zone Si!
My add on advice is make sure you have a high protein meal ready for after to help recovery. I also use compression tights to sleep in after hard efforts but my wife thinks I look like a ballet dancer, she is probably correct.....
I found a simple training plan online years ago which could add in zone 4 training. It consists of one fast ride (I created my own 10 mile tt route for that), one steady ride which was a bit longer distance (zone 2 maybe?), and a longer ride at the weekend, gradually building up the miles for a distance goal over 8 weeks, with the odd workout or shorter rides on rest days, works for me.
Sounds like a great plan! Are you training for any goals or are you keen to just keep the fitness building and building 🙌
@@gcn I noticed it soon after I started cycling about 9 years ago. It is a 100 mile training plan over 8 weeks, but I reduced it to 25 miles to start with, then 50, then 100. I've went back to it on and off, but it's been over 2 years since I did my last 100. It's certainly kept me motivated 🙂
I’m a runner as well as a cyclist, for running I do a 4 week block which is 2 weeks medium, 1 week hard and 1 week easy then repeat. I use perceived effort to judge how hard to go, one big learning has been to make easy runs super easy and hard actually hard! For riding I think that 80% in Zone 2 and 20% in Zone 4 is basically the same pattern so I apply that. Most of my riding, for convenience, is on Zwift but I do a group ride on a Sunday which is always more relaxed and adds a social element.
Sounds like you've really mastered your planning! Were you a runner before a cyclist? Do you enjoy the hard weeks or the more chilled ones? 🥵
@@gcn I started running at school, was county level but then found bikes! I returned to running as more than a jog in 2014.
Best about Zwift is that you can safely race and go for your limits. FTP tests and vo2max training is good but nothing beats race since then you get your mind into game and you can go faster getting all out of you.
Thanks Si and GCN. Obviously, I need to revisit this video again and again, to help with my planning and training.
The only nice quiet riding near me in the local hills and I doubt there's a single zone I don't hit in any one outing.... A prolonged zone 2 feels almost mythical!
Well at least you guys have a beautiful area to enjoy yourself.
Motivation in training is key too.
If I leave my ego at the door I can climb an 8% gradient in zone 2. Put on a 11-32 cassette and stand out of saddle. It’s embarrassing to only do 10 kmh, but I’d rather do that than be indoors.
On most of my routes there's a 15% section - I mean I love the mix but some days it would be nice to think of just heading out on a nice flat, steady jaunt :)
Well the rule says 80:20
So 80% zone 2 20% zone 3 or 4
There is no scientific proof that doing 3 or 4 is better then each other for increasing FTP.
So just make that 15% bit your little block. Because there is no way that can be done in zone 2@@Z-u-m-a
Thanks for the shot of the Tor and Cheddar Gorge - brings back fond memories of bike rides in my student days ❤
Where is he?
I live on the West Coast of Canada. Long climbs are a dime a dozen out here near the Coastal Mountains, so finding good zone 4 training hills is dead easy here. :-)
Lucky you. Here, we have a lot of short steep hills which can mess up any plan. Too steep ride up only in Z2 and too short to get the 8min Z4.
@@chrisridesbicyclesthose sorts of hills kick the butts of those only used to the long steady state mountains though. There's an art to riding the UK hills quickly that not many manage easily master IMHO
@@chrisridesbicycles British Columbia has the Rocky Mountains in the East, and the Coastal Mountains in the West, and most of the land in-between is foothills. There isn't much flat land in the entire province! That's lucky, or unlucky, depending on your feeling about hill-climbing! ;) I like hill-climbing so I'm here for it, but there are dissenters out there. :P
If you haven't travelled much in North America, the scale of it can be shocking to Europeans. For example, British Columbia (just one province of 10 in Canada) is about the size of the British Isles and France *put together*.
@@TobiMcTobeface Perhaps some day I'll get the opportunity to travel to the UK and see for myself. Put my muscle fibres, trained on long protracted climbs, to the short/steep test. :)
I totally have display envy for your Zwift set up. Enjoyed the video too 🙂 I personally do most intervals at 105% FTP for intervals 3-5 minutes in length and 120% of FTP for 60s to 90s intervals. I rarely do intervals longer in length than 5 minutes. I do try to do 2 interval workouts, 1 steady tempo (85-90% of FTP) workout, and several Z2 workouts per week for a total of 12-14 hours/week. Each workout is generally 90 minutes in length except for long ride day. Life is complicated recently by having a cardiac pacemaker installed a few weeks ago that tends to induce heart rate spikes to maximum pacing rate during interval workouts that can last for up to 10 minutes. For context, I'll be 69 next month.
That sounds like a very reasonably structured plan
Great stuff as ever Si. Just to add,, ride your bike and enjoy 😀
I made a ‘reverse ladders’ workout in Zwift ( as recommended by you ) and let me tell you 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 haha loved it.
I do one zone 4 long blocks, one vo2 max short intervals 2 zone two, 1 zone two with sprints at the end, one long ride and one free ride/torque/OTT/for fun ride per week. I was looking back the other day at my previous training and saw that during Covid I was doing 3/ day. Wtaf. Did we all just go crazy for two years???
Ps nothing inspires me more to jump on my bike than videos like these. Love.
Barbara it is!
I do this type of training on my mountain bike on a local trails with lots of punchy hills. Always time myself and push to beat my best time.
fits in perfectly for me as I saw in my recent time trials what I was lacking of... was almost only doing 2 and 5. and only ocasionally 4...would love to see you having Dr San Milan on that one for his views...
We would love to do some more deep dives with Dr San Milan! We'll see what we can do 👀
A natural ride for me is 10 minutes in zone 1 and and 2, then I hit the hill with 18 minutes in borderline zone 3 to 4, then its flat, back to zone 2 for 15 minutes, and a new climb to the forest-cafe(Brunkollen 370 meters above sea level) , maybe 30 minutes in zone 3 and 4. Then coffestop, and finally descending home, 45 minutes in zone2. Feels like good training. The other way around starting in zone two and the hard bit later is difficult to do because I live close to sealevel.
I have a relative ( Even Sæteren Hippe) that probably did the other way around because he lived at a farm high in the hillside. He got extremly fit , and once he became World Champion in team sprint roller skiing cross country.
I always drive by feel. That makes me happiest
Get vid. I’d like to see content like this on other training zones and what benefits they have, including when and how to do them.👍
Well done, zone Barbra has been
favorite training zone since I got serious about training a year and a half ago! Need some time on your hands in an urban setting- working by traveling 100km and 1000m at 30km. It takes some time to build the fitness to but as long as I've followed the rule, every 10km traveled - climb 1000+ meters and I've been in my tempo ride.
Brab is a favourite for many riders. Nothing better than getting the blood flowing 🙌 Are you enjoying training more seriously?
@gcn I really am. I'm lucky enough to have the Canadian rockies nearby to keep setting harder and bigger goals.
I find training in the middle zones really hard. When I do sweet spot intervals which should be below Z4 it can happen that the HR reaches almost the maximum but at the same time I can sing along with my playlist.
Happens when you do the Intervalls with two fresh of legs
Do mountain biking my heart rate never sees below 140-150 unless I stop when I hit trails. Its HARD. I won't ever touch an indoor trainer, snow, rain, cold I'm out there. Also weight lifting helps with slow twitch, as does the occasional bout of circuit or HIT. You can arrange weights to be done one after the other and keep cycling a set of 6-8 different exercises, weights, calesthenics whatever taking maybe a 1-2 minute break in between each set. You will see zone 4 if you do it fast enough.
I‘m just having some Strava segments along my route to do some zone 4 intervalls on many rides 😂
I'm lucky enough to have an amazing bike commute (Nyack, NY to New York City) where there are 2 excellent routes. One is great for zone 5 intervals (4 min z5/ 2 min break x4 - 10 minute break - repeat) and the other is perfect for a 2x20 at zone 4ish. Both are fine for zone 2. If this wasn't how I got home from work, I'd never stick to a training plan.
The Maximum Metabolic Steady State. Rolls off the tongue. Just like an Australian road train going off a cliff cab first. Ten minutes later the last trailer lands on the cab.
Yep, it's taken me a minute. 12 minutes elapsed in game. The magic of television right there! 😂😂
Great stuff, I've been looking for some solid z4 training advice. Cheers guys.
Glad we could help! hopefully now you can go smash it 🙌
never noticed those spacers before…I may need to put mine back on 😅
Oh man I’m just trying to ride my bike on a flat terrain and it’s already hard enough that I feel I’m in zone 10, or zone Ron Jeremy I have decided to call it.
I'm going to be doing Barbara more often now 😊 win win.
Is this a new bike? That 2 tone paint job is so good 🤤
I love this. thanks for sharing
A strong headwind may also be helpful for a zone 4 effort, in case you don’t have long steady quiet hills in your area.
Yes, that's why I put the fan in front of my bike, rather than behind it.
Also: dont forget zone 3. very underated overall.
In this regard, I'm quite lucky to live where I do. I have vast flat plains immediately to the north and huge mountains immediately to the south. Plains are good for long efforts in zones 2 and 3, as there are plenty of straight, almost empty roads. Some roads are like 60km without turns, which is great for pacing your effort. On the other hand, there are some extremely steep climbs in the mountains, along with some long, not so steep ones and mtb trails. It's just difficult not to be in zone 4 on most of the climbs. Some even require to do a max effort, and some are too steep for me to ride up. There are climbs that are comparable to epic Alps ones. For instance, there is one road that goes from 1000m of elevation to 3200m. And it's not including dirt roads. Some of those go to over 3500 meters.
OK where do you live?! No mountains here in southern England.
Si, great vid, any chance you might do a piece on cycling injuries to make people aware... for example I'm susceptible to rhabdomyolysis due to a muscle condition which I (sort of) understand now,but I'm sure things like DOMS or other fatigue related issues would be of benefit.
I feel ridiculous saying this, but with so many variables affecting a ride: sleep, caffeine, food intake, liquid, stress, time of day, weather, sickness, etc., I honestly really struggle to determine whether I'm actually improving.
If you don’t need sprinting you don’t need any zone 4 block training.
You can do zone 3 instead.
The problem for me is staying in zone 2 for 80% of the time.
Riding in zone 3 is just so much more fun.
I usually warm up for 15 minutes in zone 5 and then do 90-120 minutes of zone 6. Once per week zone 7. My FTP is not definable.
😂
Once again excellent ! Thank You!
I train one day all out at a rate I can maintain for 10 miles on a certain route that has hills etc and then medium paced 20 miles and then an easy 30+ miles each week....
This was actually a very good video
Hi Simon! Is there a specific advantage for Zone Barbara over Zone Lucifer (6) or do you basically recommend it to throw something different into the mix? (compared to a classic polorized approach with 8-9hours Zone 2 and 1 hour smashing yourself/ going through hell)
no mention of the work to rest ratios
I recommend more training in Zone 3.639.
i still use gcn HIIT training video years ago.
I would love to know what proportion to spend on Zone 4 vs Zone 5/6 training? For general cycling fitness.
What should I do to prepair before training hard? do I need a rest day before hard training session? How much or recommend amount of nutrition to taking in? Or I should go out hard after a cup of black coffee in the warm morning.
Great thanks for your content!
I believe you can also training zone 4 to cycling with a backpack with extra weight inside start with 5kg and build it up 😂 the next you feel much lighter and stronger 😂
I love to train in zone 3, just to be a contrarian.
Sound editor just went absolutely mad with the effects on this one.
Please explain how you do Zone 4 interval training with a Robopacer. Not sure how.
Was that a #humblebrag showing you doing 347 @ zone 4 on Zwift?
Robo Si always great
At least the Barbara zone does not whine like the Karen Zone.
How do you incorporate Z4 in a season long narrative? Is it better to focus on Z4 during specific blocks or is it better to spread it out around the season?
Given that it is best to not do more than 3 hard sessions a week for recreational cyclists, it is difficult to fit bits of everything in.
It also makes for a very fast commute
I live in Sheffield. Too much bloody zone 4!
You mention two sessions a week at Z4, I thought Dr Inigo said 80/20 unless your ramping up for an event then make it two a week ?
The last time I was in zone 4 was when I was doing strength only and had to run for the bus.
Am I the only person that doesn’t get zwift? I prefer music for my training. I tried it and I feel like I don’t get it cause everyone seems to love it
I would have named the zones Stan and Loretta in a nod to Monty Python.
What about VO2max intervals though? 5x4‘ type of work
I’m 62 years old and any time I go out on my bike or for a run, I’m always up in zone 4 and zone 5. I find it difficult to get down to zone 2 and 3. My recovery heart rate is really good. I never seem to feel tired the next day, but I’m sure it will catch up on me at some point. Am I putting myself at risk?
Excellent 👌🏾
I'm going to do a relaxing evening ride after work... four blocks of zone 4... collapses on the grass afterward...
you havent mentioned how much recovery after each effort? 4 x 8 mins but how much recovery after each one? also for the 3 x 10 mins and 2 x 20 mins? thanks
I’m on heart medication so all my zones from 1 through to Barbera are all the same these days!
Really? For me it does put a limiter on the top end heart rate but i can still feel and see the difference between zone 2, 3 and 4.
I really hope si never leaves GCN. Jeremy Clarkson of the bike world
I must disagree with one of your first statements, that zone four is 90% of your maximum heart rate. Between 90 to 100% is zone five, zone four is then 80 to 90%.
In general how could one train zone 4 indoor when not having access to a wahoo and zwift. Would a spinning bike do the job as well? Missing out of course on the Strava measurements
I like matching my lactate threshold with as high heartrate as I can reach. When lactate levels get too high, I gear down and pedal faster. And when when lactate levels go down I gear up to push harder. I don't know what this zone is called? Race Zone?
The Si Borg is riding my 30sec power as FTP 😂😂😂.
I cruise on the flat at 25-27kph, the Si-Borg is doing 27kph on 8%.😅😅😅
Hahahah he's a real machine 👌