@@rynobehnke8289 if i had a nickel for every time a sonic developer was overworked and nearly died, i'd have two nickels. which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice
For possible context to the vocals on the prototype intro theme, it is actually pretty common for musicians to hum/mumble/scat/whatever a melody over the instrumental so they remember it when writing the song. As someone who makes music myself and has watched streams and such of others recording music, this is actually a very valid technique that makes it so the vocalist has a vocal blueprint to write to.
During development for music they usually hum to get the rythm for the vocals before they start implementing them, kinda just feeling out the song before sticking with it and adding vocals
@kingalastor936 Bruh 3D Sonic games have always been linear 💀. I'm very sure that's not nearly big enough of a reason to want someone fired from their job
@thelegendarybluehedgehog5465 people want him fired because he's heavily involved with all Sonic games and he manages to make fans butthurt saying stuff like there's two worlds, Classic Sonic is another dimension counterpart and there will never be Sonic Adventure 3. But yeah, in all honesty it's just Sonic fans being Sonic fans as usual
Knowing now that Iizuka was virtually the only level designer when this game has probably one of the best designed stages makes me respect this man even more
It was actually from the game developer Origin (their internal motto and the guys who made Wing Commander). The phrasing is different, but the meaning is the same.
Incredible video, man. But, might I suggest, if you haven't done it already, making a video about Sonic Forces' cut content. After taking a look at it myself, it looks like Sonci Forces could've been an incredible game based off concept art and cut content. But due to corporate medaling, it ended up the way we know the game now. Idk, seems like an interesting idea for this series
I love that concept art.My personal favorite was the unused stages because of what could of been.W video really good editing keep going bro peace and blessings.
Or Iizuka should resign from Sega (instead of being the butt of "we had a troubled development" meme), build your own company and hire the Sonic fans who made promising fan games. Then market them as fast-paced spiritual successors that are actually good to fill the void felt by Sonic fans. Oh wait, too late, they already made their own games with OCs.
Looking at the concept art, some of it depicts Sonic running alone through the levels. So it makes me wonder if the team mechanic was added later in development and the game started off as something more aligned with the Adventure gameplay.
The cut dialogue would have been a neat addition to add to this video. The script implies was going to be a Christmas theme level and some kind of sea creature boss fight.
You have a right to your opinion. Just like I have a right to mine. Which is Rush Adventure is peak lol Heroes was a great game. It gets too much hate when honestly? As someone who grew up with it, it wasn't nearly as bad as the actual bad games in the series(Labrinth, 06, Secret Rings, Forces).
Ok so i live seeing your videos but the ones where you say what the games could've been is just fantastic i love the concept videos despite the fact that i never played heroes yet it always looked cool
He was actually singing like that on purpose. It’s called “scatting” and he was doing it to see where and what lyrics would line up at what part of the instrumental! Basically an early practice
5:35 Those "ancient advanced civilization" statues are not robots. Those are statues based explicitly on ancient Japanese clay figure artifacts. The small ones are called "haniwa", which were terracotta figures placed on funeral mounds in 300-500AD Japan. The big one is a "dogū", figures of which originate from roughly 4000-400BC of prehistoric Japan. You may also recognize it as "Arahabaki" from the SMT/Persona games.
@@shaulov10 It was presented well, I enjoyed the story despite being a downgrade from SA2, and the music was still great. Its only real big issue was the controls.
Honestly knowing the background of this game makes me love it and appreciate it even more. Now, is it the best thing ever? Hell no. But the fact that this game was only built with 19 people just makes me want to pick it back up again. I hope a remaster or remake (more remake) happens some day. The history game absolutely deserves it
@@shaulov10 Also Metal Sonic was actually amongst the original team roster (he was with Mighty and Ray) which seems to point to he wasn't originally going to be the villain.
Bro honestly I would build a team of modders to add these things or a few of these things if I had the patience and even knew any that would be willing to help, I love the hell out this game I was honestly so sad when I was younger when I found out characters like mighty and ray were gonna be in that game...pretty sure that's how I even knew they were characters I think
it's not that strange, it's a part of the songwriting process. The entire song does not just POP into your head out of nowhere. First you figure out the melody, so you record some gibberish to the melody you've thought up. "na na na, la dee dah" so you can get an idea of what you want it to sound like, and then you can sit down and write some meaningful lyrics. It's like when you're drawing a fox, so you draw a perfect circle and two perfect triangles for ears, and then erase the lines in between afterwards.
What johnny was doing is called scatting its something singers do when they know what the melody will be already but haven’t completed the lyrics yet. Overall pretty common in the music industry
Imagine what 06 would have looked like (I know p06 exists but I would like to have seen what sonic team would have done if they were given enough time)
Sega should definitely remake heroes and include all the cut content and make the story how it was meant to be. Imagine the hype if they ever did that.
also did you know that the game was supposed to be made for xbox and game cube, but sony said to sega, to release this game in play station 2 or they will not be allowed to release a game on a play station consol ever again
Isn't 19 people though making sonic heroes if was a 19 people making this game is really impressive ngl even though the game has some issue but still impressive
Some Sonic fans when they talk about 06 remake: it has potential even though it ruined the franchise Some sonic fans when they talk about heroes remake: it has no potential and the can't fix it even though when it helped the franchise grow and its iconic
In my opinion, Sonic Heroes environment is the perfect building design for Sonic's World, It's a blend of cartoony and colorful style like the classic games but with realistic stuff like the Modern Games. Frog Forest, Hang Castle and Bullet Train are really unique, Colors is colorful yes, but it feels bland and for Sonic Lost World, its also bland but worse. There is just something perfect environment in my eyes in Sonic Heroes.
@@shaulov10 each 1st and 2nd acts of a stage are connected. Seaside hill connects to ocean palace, casino lvl connects to bingo highway, and frog forest to lost jungle. Egg fleet is about blowing up egg man’s war ships while final fortress is the last flag ship egg man had. Although each stage is different, both acts of a given stage have a linear and coherent story, just like the classic games If the 1st act of the egg fleet is in the air, how would that connect to a secret under water base?
@@shaulov10 ok my apologies, but I’m confused, bear with me please. If the sea base is a different stage altogether, does that mean it would be an additional stage at the very end of the game?
SO the reason Why the heroes demo is of the PS2 version is actually because the game was Developed FOR the PS2. But not for the reasons you think. See Sonic team Knew that PS2 was gonna be the weakest of all the consoles. Instead of Developing for the Superior Xbox and CG versons and wasting development time Trying to downgrad to the PS2. They just Made the game for the PS2 as a base so they could just simply Improve that Base to the Better GC and Xbox Releases.
Yo, I'm gonna call you out just a little bit. At around 2:30 you say that technology makes it harder to develop games and this just isn't true. If technology made it *more difficult* to develop for games, nobody would advance technology. Fact of the matter is, making a game in UE5 is far more simple than making Mario Brothers back in the day even though the game was far more simple. You just have way more options now.
While true. It still would take more resources, models and textures need to be higher quality. Games on average were becoming longer which means more content was needed. And this was during a time before UE5 where you had nanites and automatics LOD and optimization took longer, especially when graphics were getting more advanced. So technically games were getting more difficult to make. But they are getting easier and more streamlined
@@shaulov10 Look, I get what you're saying, I'm not trying to bust your chops. But I think there's confusion here. Maybe people demanded *more* from their games, but that means that the games conceptually were larger in scope- not technologically more difficult to make. If these exact same developers had access to UE5, Unity or GODOT today they would have absolutely no troubles cranking out the same game in half the time with fewer technical issues.
Hurray, another video about the topic no one have covered before Like lol, there's a video from a guy named Cifesk published Jan 27, 2024 which is two weeks ago. At least he compiled everything into one big video Another useless video
nearly dying from working on a blue hedgehog game is fucking insane
This sonic shit is serious. Be ready to die behind it
The most ridicules part is.
That wasn't even the first time.
This is as one of Sonic X-Tream's developers also worked himself nearly to death.
@@rynobehnke8289 if i had a nickel for every time a sonic developer was overworked and nearly died, i'd have two nickels. which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice
I would too I would die for the goat
Wouldn’t even have been the first time this shit has happened lol cheek out sonic xtreme’s story
For possible context to the vocals on the prototype intro theme, it is actually pretty common for musicians to hum/mumble/scat/whatever a melody over the instrumental so they remember it when writing the song. As someone who makes music myself and has watched streams and such of others recording music, this is actually a very valid technique that makes it so the vocalist has a vocal blueprint to write to.
Yeah, just place holder lyrics. Sounds hilarious though
this exactly. its very common to come up with the melody before the lyrics. sometimes that wordless melody ends up on a demo! XD
Johnny was asked about this and confirmed this is what he did
I loved when cloud, aerith and tifa fought neo metal Sepiroth and then they said "Because we're Final Fantasy"
The best part was whenn they said "it's final fantasing time" and final fantased all over the place
The FF7 transition is working 😈
@@shaulov10 there isn't a maria boss fight so ff7 is a 0/10 game
Metal Sepiroth, leak Tifa’s Noods
Sonic Hearts
Sonic Team on every Sonic game released: the game had a troubled development.
It’s really unfortunate cause Sega dosent think there BIGGEST franchise is worth the time or money, when frontiers literally proves otherwise.
@@shaulov10 unleashed too
During development for music they usually hum to get the rythm for the vocals before they start implementing them, kinda just feeling out the song before sticking with it and adding vocals
Aahhh I see ok that makes sense
I have never heard of sonic heroes concept art, this will be a treat!
Always enjoy researching and seeing how things would have been
Interesting video! It’s crazy how someone can almost die for a game. lizuka doesn’t get enough credit for his work nowadays honestly
True. He also basically saved frontiers
@@shaulov10 Indeed
Iizuka is a real one ngl, i have no idea why some people want him fired
Cause sonic fans
He wants sonic games to be linear as opposed to multiple paths.
@kingalastor936 Bruh 3D Sonic games have always been linear 💀. I'm very sure that's not nearly big enough of a reason to want someone fired from their job
@@kingalastor936says you?
@thelegendarybluehedgehog5465 people want him fired because he's heavily involved with all Sonic games and he manages to make fans butthurt saying stuff like there's two worlds, Classic Sonic is another dimension counterpart and there will never be Sonic Adventure 3.
But yeah, in all honesty it's just Sonic fans being Sonic fans as usual
he's humming to catch his flow and write lyrics in afterwards. fairly common practice in music during production & demoes.
Knowing now that Iizuka was virtually the only level designer when this game has probably one of the best designed stages makes me respect this man even more
“A game, with a delayed release, with eventually be good. But a game that is rushed, will forever be bad”
Wise words from Nintendo
"Stop Making up I didn't say"- Gengis Kahn
It was actually from the game developer Origin (their internal motto and the guys who made Wing Commander). The phrasing is different, but the meaning is the same.
Halo 2 was good tho
Kid named Duke Nukem forever:
Incredible video, man. But, might I suggest, if you haven't done it already, making a video about Sonic Forces' cut content. After taking a look at it myself, it looks like Sonci Forces could've been an incredible game based off concept art and cut content. But due to corporate medaling, it ended up the way we know the game now. Idk, seems like an interesting idea for this series
I actually have done a vid on forces cut content so you can go check it out
@@shaulov10 A simply UA-cam search would've saved me the 3 minutes I spent making that comment 😭
I love that concept art.My personal favorite was the unused stages because of what could of been.W video really good editing keep going bro peace and blessings.
Congrats on 5k! You deserve the world my friend! Now is just the start!
THANKYOUUUUU!!! WERE ONLY GOING UP FROM HERE
@@shaulov10 YESSIR!!!!!!!!!!
Ya know what else I wish this game had? Flashbacks of how Metal Sonic concocted his plans.
Goated Game, shows how Talented Sonic Team used to be making this game with only 19 people and less than 2 years.
W Glazing
Well when Sega rushes all of their sonic games, you kind of need to work day and night.
Sega kinda sucks
Or Iizuka should resign from Sega (instead of being the butt of "we had a troubled development" meme), build your own company and hire the Sonic fans who made promising fan games. Then market them as fast-paced spiritual successors that are actually good to fill the void felt by Sonic fans.
Oh wait, too late, they already made their own games with OCs.
hanged castle being an actual hanging castle is so fucking cool
7:19 he was thinking of this process you may have heard of called song writing
Woah. It's you!
Loved your game man and that OST was 🔥
I was informed that it’s something called scatting. Now I know
Looking at the concept art, some of it depicts Sonic running alone through the levels. So it makes me wonder if the team mechanic was added later in development and the game started off as something more aligned with the Adventure gameplay.
I’m not sure cause Izuka mentioned he wanted teams to be a thing during the conceptualtion phase
Congrats on 5k. Proud of you bro.
Thanks man!!
Congrats on 5K!!!!💯💯The quality of your videos has changed so much. Good Cooking!! 💪💪🗣️🗣️👏👏
Thank you man. Will continue to cook
The cut dialogue would have been a neat addition to add to this video. The script implies was going to be a Christmas theme level and some kind of sea creature boss fight.
Oh I didn’t even know there was different script
The full script was translated from Japanese and released recently like the PS2 prototype
Amazing video I did not know the concept art was this cool
Yeah it’s a shame that some concepts didn’t make it into the final game
The only thing cut were the children in Shaulov's basement in 2029 (Congrats on 5k Subs and also the video was great)
Neat vid. Also are you gonna make another stream in the future
Probably gonna stream later today
Looking back at this game, it really reminds me of the time around the release date, all of those amazing games and all my gamcube games
Sonic Heroes is PEAK! NO ONE CAN TELL ME OTHERWISE!
You do you bestie
@shaulov10 Thanks bestie 🤣 I do love this game and knowing this art truly makes me want a remaster of this game even more 😭
You have a right to your opinion. Just like I have a right to mine. Which is Rush Adventure is peak lol
Heroes was a great game. It gets too much hate when honestly? As someone who grew up with it, it wasn't nearly as bad as the actual bad games in the series(Labrinth, 06, Secret Rings, Forces).
@TekRonan I dont even mind Sonic Labyrinth.
Ok so i live seeing your videos but the ones where you say what the games could've been is just fantastic i love the concept videos despite the fact that i never played heroes yet it always looked cool
He was actually singing like that on purpose. It’s called “scatting” and he was doing it to see where and what lyrics would line up at what part of the instrumental! Basically an early practice
This series didn’t peak until Lost World with Windy Hill
I SAID YOU WAIT
what
No way jose
Because we're Sonic Zeroes
5:29 mf Skeleton Dome from Secret Rings before the Wii-
It’s more of a mix of skeleton dome and the pirate stage
Pirate Storm respect@@shaulov10
Really want to play but Sega don’t want to remake it
Emulation is a beautiful thing
5:35 Those "ancient advanced civilization" statues are not robots. Those are statues based explicitly on ancient Japanese clay figure artifacts.
The small ones are called "haniwa", which were terracotta figures placed on funeral mounds in 300-500AD Japan.
The big one is a "dogū", figures of which originate from roughly 4000-400BC of prehistoric Japan. You may also recognize it as "Arahabaki" from the SMT/Persona games.
One of my favirite Sonic games. Needs a re-release or remaster.
Nah it needs a full blown remake
For a game that was so rushed, it came out really well.
Fair
@@shaulov10 It was presented well, I enjoyed the story despite being a downgrade from SA2, and the music was still great. Its only real big issue was the controls.
The series returns
Probably gonna make an episode for every major milestone on the channel
What do you think the next game and milestone will be?
Honestly knowing the background of this game makes me love it and appreciate it even more. Now, is it the best thing ever? Hell no. But the fact that this game was only built with 19 people just makes me want to pick it back up again. I hope a remaster or remake (more remake) happens some day. The history game absolutely deserves it
5:28 this looks like it was repurposed into skeleton dome from secret rings
Maybe not skeleton dome but pirate storm
Good luck on getting 10k subs
Thank you man!!!
Another detail that could've made the cut was that characters such as Mighty, Ray, Fang, Bean, Bark, E102 Gamma & Chaos were going to appear.
Yeah I forgot Izuka mentioned he wanted to bring back a lot of characters from the classics but couldn’t due to time constraints
@@shaulov10 Also Metal Sonic was actually amongst the original team roster (he was with Mighty and Ray) which seems to point to he wasn't originally going to be the villain.
Bro honestly I would build a team of modders to add these things or a few of these things if I had the patience and even knew any that would be willing to help, I love the hell out this game I was honestly so sad when I was younger when I found out characters like mighty and ray were gonna be in that game...pretty sure that's how I even knew they were characters I think
the fact that izuka nearly died while making this game is disturbing. like what was sega thinking
They don’t think. That’s the problem
@@shaulov10 your right.they never do
it's not that strange, it's a part of the songwriting process. The entire song does not just POP into your head out of nowhere. First you figure out the melody, so you record some gibberish to the melody you've thought up. "na na na, la dee dah" so you can get an idea of what you want it to sound like, and then you can sit down and write some meaningful lyrics.
It's like when you're drawing a fox, so you draw a perfect circle and two perfect triangles for ears, and then erase the lines in between afterwards.
This is why this game deserves a remake to redeem itself and people should give this game a bit more respect although how they fill about this game
What johnny was doing is called scatting its something singers do when they know what the melody will be already but haven’t completed the lyrics yet. Overall pretty common in the music industry
Oh ok i see. I though he was just humming or sum
This, this exactly. Wish I saw this before I commented the same thing lol
I love neo metal sonic
Him and metal overlord are both peak
Imagine what 06 would have looked like (I know p06 exists but I would like to have seen what sonic team would have done if they were given enough time)
That game could have been great
@@shaulov10 also congratulations on 5k subscribers
My first video game ❤️
Damn. Mine was phines and ferb for the DS
Sega should definitely remake heroes and include all the cut content and make the story how it was meant to be. Imagine the hype if they ever did that.
surprised u didnt mention the original teams that were supposed to be in heros
Tbh those completely slipped my mind.
Sonic teamdeserve to go to heaven, starting with god lizuka
That’s some insane glazing
the ancient stage is based on japanise archeological figurines.
Did I miss something about the humming?
also did you know that the game was supposed to be made for xbox and game cube, but sony said to sega, to release this game in play station 2 or they will not be allowed to release a game on a play station consol ever again
Oh ok that makes a lot of sense why the ps2 port is the worst
Isn't 19 people though making sonic heroes if was a 19 people making this game is really impressive ngl even though the game has some issue but still impressive
According to all the sources I could find there was only 19 or so people. It’s really a miracle the game came out
@@shaulov10 that's cool
all i want is a modern re-release!!!!!!!!!!!
Some Sonic fans when they talk about 06 remake: it has potential even though it ruined the franchise
Some sonic fans when they talk about heroes remake: it has no potential and the can't fix it even though when it helped the franchise grow and its iconic
RAILS!
In my opinion, Sonic Heroes environment is the perfect building design for Sonic's World, It's a blend of cartoony and colorful style like the classic games but with realistic stuff like the Modern Games. Frog Forest, Hang Castle and Bullet Train are really unique, Colors is colorful yes, but it feels bland and for Sonic Lost World, its also bland but worse. There is just something perfect environment in my eyes in Sonic Heroes.
sonic lost world is still good
otherwise love the vid
What does lost world have anything to do with this 😭😭
@@shaulov10 nothing, i just wanted to point it out
I love you
@@Natezilla_2 thanks
“Foilage”?
*Foliage.
2:59 imagine dying because a f*cking videogame
This sonic shits serious, be ready to die behind it
Under water doesn’t make sense, how do u go from a bunch of flying war ships to an underwater base while making both acts connect?
@@reddemon6668 Sonic heroes is a game where you go from a casino to the Grand Canyon. Connecting stages was not a concern here
@@shaulov10 each 1st and 2nd acts of a stage are connected. Seaside hill connects to ocean palace, casino lvl connects to bingo highway, and frog forest to lost jungle. Egg fleet is about blowing up egg man’s war ships while final fortress is the last flag ship egg man had. Although each stage is different, both acts of a given stage have a linear and coherent story, just like the classic games
If the 1st act of the egg fleet is in the air, how would that connect to a secret under water base?
@@reddemon6668 no the sea base is a different stage entirely
@@shaulov10 ok my apologies, but I’m confused, bear with me please. If the sea base is a different stage altogether, does that mean it would be an additional stage at the very end of the game?
Bro why does McDonald’s keep on ruining sonic games
It’s like a curse
shame they cut so much content besides the actual fucking game itself
TRUUUUUUUE
One more like forn300 likes 👍🏾😊
Monumentous W
12:59 fin.
w shauvlov video
W comment
SO the reason Why the heroes demo is of the PS2 version is actually because the game was Developed FOR the PS2. But not for the reasons you think.
See Sonic team Knew that PS2 was gonna be the weakest of all the consoles. Instead of Developing for the Superior Xbox and CG versons and wasting development time Trying to downgrad to the PS2.
They just Made the game for the PS2 as a base so they could just simply Improve that Base to the Better GC and Xbox Releases.
But Seaside Hill is a very good music for a stage. I prefered it better than some rock theme...
You say foliage like Marge Simpson
Yo, I'm gonna call you out just a little bit. At around 2:30 you say that technology makes it harder to develop games and this just isn't true. If technology made it *more difficult* to develop for games, nobody would advance technology. Fact of the matter is, making a game in UE5 is far more simple than making Mario Brothers back in the day even though the game was far more simple. You just have way more options now.
While true. It still would take more resources, models and textures need to be higher quality. Games on average were becoming longer which means more content was needed. And this was during a time before UE5 where you had nanites and automatics LOD and optimization took longer, especially when graphics were getting more advanced. So technically games were getting more difficult to make. But they are getting easier and more streamlined
@@shaulov10 Look, I get what you're saying, I'm not trying to bust your chops. But I think there's confusion here.
Maybe people demanded *more* from their games, but that means that the games conceptually were larger in scope- not technologically more difficult to make.
If these exact same developers had access to UE5, Unity or GODOT today they would have absolutely no troubles cranking out the same game in half the time with fewer technical issues.
I hate it when sonic games reuse stages. Sonic Adventure 2 is the only game with stage diversity
Nah, sonic hero’s and maybe I think forces are the only sonic games that reuse level designs
Not called a demo but ok
Demo beta whatever same diff
One of the first ones here
Man…
Hurray, another video about the topic no one have covered before
Like lol, there's a video from a guy named Cifesk published Jan 27, 2024 which is two weeks ago. At least he compiled everything into one big video
Another useless video
Explains why the game sucks
Moon channel is trash propaganda and not worthy of the shout out when there are many more youtubers with more knowledge on Sega.