Ooooo, a mention of The King in Yellow. Do you have The Yellow Sign? I love the book those a couple of the stories seem to stray off from the genre of the earlier stories. My emotional villain name would be IT Support Frustration. I gather all of the frustration from IT support and use it to pit superheroes against each other.
They definitely take a lot of inspiration from "The Pallid Mask"/"Mask of the Read Death" for Sorrow's style. It's a shame they don't use his character more or tell better stories. He could easily be layers deeper. So glad you brought up "The King in Yellow."
I really do think that Johnny Sorrow's origin is kind of brilliant on a metatextual level. It's the idea of taking a washed-up and long-forgotten Golden Age villain and reinventing them into an "edgier"/more legitimately threatening character in the modern day - except it's not an editorial decision, it's an actual _plot point_ in-universe that informs his entire motivation. He's a man out of time, a performer of a lost art who will go to any lengths to reclaim the spotlight he believes is rightfully his, to the point where he's abandoned his own humanity in pursuit of it and is even willing and able to destroy the very fabric of our reality if it means that he'll get to be famous for something again. Honestly, I just love villains with seemingly dumb gimmicks that actually manage to become credible threats over time, and Johnny Sorrow has the potential to fit that niche in a really fascinating way.
"I'm hearing that a lot lately, and I'm fed up with it." she said. And then she rammed his mask up his ass and he turned inside out as he was sucked back into the Unsubtle Realms.
I do like Lovecraftian links and vibes. Morrison leans in that direction quite frequently. Rescuing past characters from cheesy obscurity and placing them in a cosmically horrifying context is one of my favorite tropes; as one or two other comments mention below. The King of Tears seems to make Johnny into Nyarlathotep.
I will admit, I like how Sand is handled for the most part. 6 months after the incident and it makes complete sense that he would blame himself. It was obviously an accident, he had no idea that Johnny Sorrow's body would be so unstable using that technology, but he still did it. He took a shot that he wasn't told to take, so he has no one to blame but himself, and he killed a man and then, in turn, caused that man's wife to die and the deaths of several other people. Plus just the fact he saw how Sorrow died in front of him, it was obviously painful. However, much later when in basically the same scenario, Sand is mature enough and has enough time to grieve to realize its not his fault. Johnny Sorrow was/is a supervillain, using strange, crazy technology with no regards to how much danger he was putting himself and others into. Sand is right, Johnny did this to himself. If you decide to fight with a bomb strapped to your chest, then do you really have a right to be angry when someone triggers it by accident? Its having the character react to what he's done in a very realistic way.
I can dig your concept for Johnny -- Having the King of Tears being like the King in Yellow, or JS being Nyarlahotep and leaning more into the cosmic indifference of Lovecraftian fiction works better than active malignancy. One thing that came to mind -- ever read Shade: The Changing Man? That'd be up your street if you wanted a slow boiling insanity than this.
That quote by Johnny, "At fifty we all have the face we deserve," is something I've been thinking a lot about as I get closer to fifty. Another thing that really stayed with me during this story arc was the Hal Jordan Specter. In his mortal life he had overcome great fear, and although as the Specter he couldn't directly fight with the King of Tears, he could impart the same do or die attitude he had as a mortal to the humanity around him. It was cool seeing the people fleeing from terror. to fighting back with everything they had!
Hal was a good Specter. I wish they'd left him as Specter permanently, he was just ruined as a Lantern after everything they put him through in the 90s and dying to the Sun-Eater was as close to going out on a high note as he was going to get. Bringing him back was a huge mistake.
Sand was a pretty cool character. I wish we could could see more of him. He was one of my favorite characters in this run along with Atom Smasher. Im glad you covered this story. This run of JSA is a classic.
"The King in Yellow" play is supposed to drive people insane. There are some interesting psychological theories about the color yellow ( as in "the king in yellow") that make this idea more interesting. Too much yellow is believed to lead to agitation and irritability, due to its intensity. In Russia, an insane asylum is called "a yellow house". One year before "the king in yellow" came Charlotte Gilman Perkins' story "the yellow wallpaper " about a woman going insane. Yellow is associated with intense fear (a " yellow coward"). Just a thought.
Until the poll (Johnny Sorrow vs. Psycho Pirate) I'd never even heard of JS. From the last two vids, I agree that he has potential. I always appreciate you introducing me to new characters. The first King of Tears rendering looks like some Caviar gone wrong. In fact, both of them give me seafood vibes. I am not eating that.
Thanks for the info on Johnny Sorrow! I'd love to write him as a villain based around showing people the image they cannot handle, maybe with a countdown or buildup like The Ring, with his victims ultimately helping him bring forth the King of Sorrows. Sometimes these would be psychic visions or dreams, whereas at other times they would be media: staged events, videos, books. A whole "Don't look at the bad thing" vibe. I think I'd also work in some kind of agenda where Johnny is trying to subtly escape his servitude. Facing him would be horrifying but it would also often lead to the hero becoming stronger emotionally or psychologically... he could be a go-to villain for stories based around changing the personality of a character long-term.
Johnny sorrow is a pretty cool character idea and he could have been a good main villain for season 4 of Stargirl, they mentioned Sandy and instead of the Specter because they didn't want to add him in the Eclipso season they could have Dr Fate defeat the king of Tears
The best use of the King in Yellow I've seen was ... that Lovecraftian dating visual novel Sucker for Love. Life is weird and that portion was gloriously overwritten, overperformed and better than Sorrow could ever be.
I just realized. When villains kill, more often then not people just die, but anytime a hero kills, it always just happens to be in a way that makes a powered supervillian
Given that the Marvel universe isn't full to the brim with superpowered undead mafia guys, you have just proven that the Punisher is definitely not a hero. Wolverine ain't looking to good either, although he has spawned a few D-listers.
With everything I've learned here I'd say that Johnny Sorrow is vastly underutilized. If the Lovecraftian angle is played up more he could easily be a big time villain.
I directed a low budget movie of The King In Yellow when I was in college and I definitely agree with you that that kind of implied cosmic horror could work really well with Johnny Sorrow. Could be really cool! Love your channel!
The recent videos about Captain Marvel/Shazam and the JSA heroes from the golden age made me think of a golden age Captain Marvel character that from what I've been able to find, never resurfaced after the two issues he's from. Bilbat, AKA, Capmarv from Whiz Comics #41-#42. He's Billy Batson's descendant from the 30th Century who calls on the power of Shaz, meaning he lacks the power of flight and the courage, so he's pretty cowardly. It just seems so weird to me that DC never tried to bring this guy back in the Legion of Super-Heroes. He's from the right time period, his lack of flight could be make up for the lack of flight and you could get a story arc of him trying to be courageous like his ancestor. So weird to think Capmarv predates the Legion of Super Heroes by 15 years.
The great thing about DC is they personify ideals very well. This is where the Cthulhu mythos starts to fall apart. If The Deep Old Ones could be overcome with nothing more than belief then they lose all power. The point of Lovecraft is the dread of facing the unknown, and realizing how insignificant the individual is.
I can't separate the King of Tears from the King-of-All-Tears from The Invisibles. But if they are connected that actually opens up some interesting potential.
Speaking of cosmic horror, the Si Spurrier/Mike Deodato story in the latest Flash issue was a blast to read and I'm excited for their run in September.
Every video of yours I can not help put eye your graphic novel shelf to see what's been added. Love the shelf! I also Lovecraftian stories, there's more to the world than we know
I think it's cool when comic book writers and artist influenced by outside lore and mythology; When done right it always adds something extra to the story.
Even instadeath can be expanded by examining the dying's perceptions. What are *they* experiencing? How much time do they think passed in those brief moments. The inexorable descent into madness could be brutally slow & painful from their POV. Maybe those visions are something completely unique to their specific psychological weaknesses. This could be a VERY deep playground.
Since it hasn't been 'revisited' in a few decades, I'd love to see Johnny Sorrow return along the lines of Dr. Destiny as seen in The Sandman. A guy who shows up and warps reality around him, so people sink deeper and deeper into their own fears and neuroses, going more and more crazy until they die. So, along the lines of what Sasha said, lol!
I wonder if the King of Tears from the JSA story had any connection to the King-of-All-Tears from Grant Morrison's The Invisibles. Both are extra-dimensional nightmare entities that wanted to invade the universe and had basically the same name. It was not unknown for DC superhero stories to reference Vertigo stories back in the day, like when Peter David referenced Lucifer abandoning in Hell in one of his Supergirl stories. My head cannon is that they were the same entity trying to invade two different universes in the DC multiverse.
I loved the Johns' JSA run, and always thought Johnny Sorrow had potential! I haven't read the Power Girl issue yet but was excited to hear Sorrow was back ~ I like your ideas for incorporating more Mythos ideas!
8:23 That first KoT design made me actually uncomfortable, you don’t even know what you’re looking at. This bug with tentacles no as impressive. Love the videos! P.S. I like the questions in the community tab and I hoping other people do too
Ever since I found out about Johnny Sorrow I've loved his design, it's very evocative!!!!! I'm excited to read the stuff that has him but it is a shame that he doesn't seem to be used as well as he could be. Nowadays we've got some really good horror/horror adjacent writers on DC books, I think James Tynion IV or Ram V could do some wonderful stuff with Johnny. I would especially love to see him drawn by Rafael Albuquerque and Dave Stewart, that early Ram V detective comics art is so wonderful. Also would love to see DaNi draw him but I'm probably biased cause she's my favorite ever.
Johnny Sorrow reminds me of that villain Ghost (the Dark Horse heroine) faced in her early stories, Cameron Nemo. I've never liked Psycho Pirate, so Johnny Sorrow strikes me as a huge improvement, villain-wise.
I don’t have much of a thought on improving Johnny Sorrow, other then my mind cannon has him sounding like Samantha’s father Maurice on Bewitched , the late Maurice Evans 🖖🏾
So you mention the Scarab. At first, I thought you were talking about the Silver Scarab, but the costume did not match. So I went looking because is not always that I see a DC character that I do not know. So okay the Scarab, probably a quick character created for that story. But then again I was wrong. The Scarab is a Vertigo character with his own miniseries that James Robinson and Geoff Johns used in the JSA title. Also, his comic makes a crossover with Indigo Prime which is a 2000AD comic. Such a fun rabbit hole that you send me. God, I love comics.
The original appearance of the King of Tears seemed inspired by Azathoth (or perhaps Yog-Sothoth). Each is often portrayed as a chaotic mass of eyes, tentacles, and mouths.
I really enjoyed this era of Sand. Wish we would get more of him. You’re right about the potential for Johnny Sorry. Not surprised Williams dropped the ball in the PG Special with him, that whole series is a massive ball drop. Too often writers write what they want instead of writing things that fit the particular character.
Would you ever talk about the random times spider-man pressed down on his webshooters with just one hand, or explanations to how he doesn’t accidentally shoot webs when punching
😮 hey Sasha - thanks for this video 😕 I was reading Earth-2 Society and Johnny Sorrow there was as usual menace. And, 🎭 Psycho Pirate appears in Dawn of DC Shazam issue 2 (Captn M (billy no….almost whopped him 😮)).
Johnny Sorrow reminded me of a Grant Morrison villain ala Mister Nobody with Lovecraftian vibes, so totally in agreement that it's something to be explored deeper.
I haven't read any Justice Society comics, so I don't know much about Johnny Sorrow. That said, judging by your video, I can see a lot of potential. There's also some "In the Mouth of Madness" vibes I get from him. It's just instead of an insane author wanting to plunge the world into Lovecraftian horror, it's an ex-actor.
I picked up The Justice Society Returns issues when they were new and picked up the JSA trades when they came out (and later the Omnibuses). Basically this was the only franchise I followed at the time. Great stories and art. 10 out if 10.
I'm always here for more discussions about the King in Yellow and how it can be adapted into fiction. It's one of my favorite Lovecraftian style stories, surpassing most by Lovecraft himself.
So, if you want a pretty good cosmic horror story, try the Chzo mythos series, or the days series as some call it. It follows a story of people becoming involved with a cosmic horror in non chronological order. So learning about how things connect from time period to time period is what makes part of the mystery of what exactly is happening more interesting. The first game is called 5 days a stranger.
Yes! A fellow Johnny Sorrow/Gentleman Ghost fan! I knew there had to be more of us somewhere out there. Honestly, I have a real soft spot for forgotten/underrated villains in comics, and Sorrow/Ghost are no exception in that regard. However, I have to admit, Sorrow hasn't been used nearly enough as he should be in the DC Universe, and I feel like there's still a lot of room to explore his full potential. Same with Gentleman Ghost, honestly - I have a whole thing in mind for how I'd write him and his connection to the Hawkman/Hawkgirl family.
Jonny sorrow is a really interesting concept, that I think so much could be done in the right hands. I personally think they dropped the ball not doing more with the tears from the Spector after he devoured the king of tears. Because the Spector is supposed to be a nigh omnipotent godlike being, and the literal tears from a god could really be interesting to follow up on and develop. I definitely can see the irony of Jonny Sorrow’s story. He was a silent film star until the media became obsolete. Then turned to crime, but got nearly killed by someone else who felt overlooked and undervalued like him. Only to be brought back by a lovecraft horror, only to be frequently upstaged by his new boss when he entered the scene. I definitely agree that instant death every time people see his face doesn’t add much. Perhaps a glimpse into this lovecraft universe that drives them mad, or have them get overwhelmed with such intense emotions of sadness. Other DC Villans have used emotions to there advantage like Scarecrow or the Sinestro corps with fear, Joker with laughter and insanity, and Atrocitus with Rage. So a villain that focuses on sadness and depression is something I feel can go places. Hell maybe have Jonny Sorrow team up with Joker and be the living evil team up of comedy and tragedy.
Hahaha using the dust jacket as a bookmark, I can’t even leave the dust jacket on books because I’m afraid of ripping them. I got the lovely Akira box set a few weeks ago, and as much as I love the spines of the jackets I’ve took them off and left them in the box. The spines still look nice, but I prefer the spines of the jackets.
Since I doubt we'll ever see a return to the Amalgam Universe how about a spotlight on the last Marvel/DC crossover that I'm aware of- the JLA/Avengers meeting?
It's a but off topic but do you think you'd be interested in making a video about the different hero lairs? I really liked you vid on the backstory of batman's giant penny and it got me curious if there were more of these stories out there for other heroes.
I used to just read current comics. More so, only main continuity. Earth 1/Prime. Then I decided to give New 52 Earth 2 a chance and loved it. That´s why I´ll be reading New Golden Age and also have plans to read the JSA Geoff Johns run.
I'm always excited to hear Denny Quotes. I have no idea who Johnny Sorrow is. Not sure I've read a book with him in it. Seems like he came and went durring my gap years.
I think I read this issue, it's been a while but I was collecting JSA at that time. I will agree Freaks is a fantastic movie. as a suggestion would love a deep dive on the drug issues from Amazing Spider-Man.
Took me a second to figure out that I recognized the name King-of-(all)-Tears wasn't the same as the one from the Invisibles. Though both have those Lovecraftian vibes though.
@@CasuallyComics Trust me, you're better off not. But the company chose to name one of the poster child units in the game "Intercessors" a while back because "Marine Tactical Squad" was too hard to defend a copyright on. And they are definitely not using the word right.
Great Review.I'll give Leah Williams a little credit for bringing him back but not for that Power Girl story.But Johnny Sorrow not setting the world on fire? When he teamed up with Despero,it took the whole JLA & JSA to take him down.I wouldn't compare him to Psycho Pirate,Pirate is a guy that anybody would want to punch in the face for being manipulative,so he's not as powerful.
If you had an emotion in your villain name what would it be?
My villain name would have to be "Ben Hangry"
The Blues - Crushing foes under the weight of their own sorrows!
RC Vengeance …I know more of a emotional state , then actual emotion 🖖🏾
Despair
Ooooo, a mention of The King in Yellow. Do you have The Yellow Sign? I love the book those a couple of the stories seem to stray off from the genre of the earlier stories.
My emotional villain name would be IT Support Frustration. I gather all of the frustration from IT support and use it to pit superheroes against each other.
If johnny sorrow is not the name of a lead singer of a punk goth emo band….we have failed as a species
"The Baroque Tales of Johnny Sorrow and Mr. Bliss" has to be the first album
Hold on, forming a band again for the first time in over 10 years.
I'd definitely use it. As a matter of fact, I may just use it as an alias.
Johnny Rotten I think is a person... Cid Vicious... Sex Pistols I think. There's a Johnny the Homicidal Maniac in comics.
There's a Johnny Thunder from the NewYorkDolls.
They definitely take a lot of inspiration from "The Pallid Mask"/"Mask of the Read Death" for Sorrow's style.
It's a shame they don't use his character more or tell better stories. He could easily be layers deeper.
So glad you brought up "The King in Yellow."
I really do think that Johnny Sorrow's origin is kind of brilliant on a metatextual level. It's the idea of taking a washed-up and long-forgotten Golden Age villain and reinventing them into an "edgier"/more legitimately threatening character in the modern day - except it's not an editorial decision, it's an actual _plot point_ in-universe that informs his entire motivation. He's a man out of time, a performer of a lost art who will go to any lengths to reclaim the spotlight he believes is rightfully his, to the point where he's abandoned his own humanity in pursuit of it and is even willing and able to destroy the very fabric of our reality if it means that he'll get to be famous for something again.
Honestly, I just love villains with seemingly dumb gimmicks that actually manage to become credible threats over time, and Johnny Sorrow has the potential to fit that niche in a really fascinating way.
I feel the Power Girl writers dropped the ball not having Johnny refer to her as a "veal cutlet"
"I'm hearing that a lot lately, and I'm fed up with it." she said. And then she rammed his mask up his ass and he turned inside out as he was sucked back into the Unsubtle Realms.
I'm on the fence over the idea of a Lovecraftian entity looking for love in all the wrong places.
I do like Lovecraftian links and vibes. Morrison leans in that direction quite frequently. Rescuing past characters from cheesy obscurity and placing them in a cosmically horrifying context is one of my favorite tropes; as one or two other comments mention below. The King of Tears seems to make Johnny into Nyarlathotep.
I will admit, I like how Sand is handled for the most part. 6 months after the incident and it makes complete sense that he would blame himself. It was obviously an accident, he had no idea that Johnny Sorrow's body would be so unstable using that technology, but he still did it. He took a shot that he wasn't told to take, so he has no one to blame but himself, and he killed a man and then, in turn, caused that man's wife to die and the deaths of several other people. Plus just the fact he saw how Sorrow died in front of him, it was obviously painful.
However, much later when in basically the same scenario, Sand is mature enough and has enough time to grieve to realize its not his fault. Johnny Sorrow was/is a supervillain, using strange, crazy technology with no regards to how much danger he was putting himself and others into. Sand is right, Johnny did this to himself. If you decide to fight with a bomb strapped to your chest, then do you really have a right to be angry when someone triggers it by accident?
Its having the character react to what he's done in a very realistic way.
I can dig your concept for Johnny -- Having the King of Tears being like the King in Yellow, or JS being Nyarlahotep and leaning more into the cosmic indifference of Lovecraftian fiction works better than active malignancy.
One thing that came to mind -- ever read Shade: The Changing Man? That'd be up your street if you wanted a slow boiling insanity than this.
That quote by Johnny, "At fifty we all have the face we deserve," is something I've been thinking a lot about as I get closer to fifty. Another thing that really stayed with me during this story arc was the Hal Jordan Specter. In his mortal life he had overcome great fear, and although as the Specter he couldn't directly fight with the King of Tears, he could impart the same do or die attitude he had as a mortal to the humanity around him. It was cool seeing the people fleeing from terror. to fighting back with everything they had!
Hal was a good Specter. I wish they'd left him as Specter permanently, he was just ruined as a Lantern after everything they put him through in the 90s and dying to the Sun-Eater was as close to going out on a high note as he was going to get. Bringing him back was a huge mistake.
Sand was a pretty cool character. I wish we could could see more of him. He was one of my favorite characters in this run along with Atom Smasher. Im glad you covered this story. This run of JSA is a classic.
"The King in Yellow" play is supposed to drive people insane.
There are some interesting psychological theories about the color yellow ( as in "the king in yellow") that make this idea more interesting.
Too much yellow is believed to lead to agitation and irritability, due to its intensity.
In Russia, an insane asylum is called "a yellow house".
One year before "the king in yellow" came Charlotte Gilman Perkins' story "the yellow wallpaper " about a woman going insane.
Yellow is associated with intense fear (a " yellow coward").
Just a thought.
Until the poll (Johnny Sorrow vs. Psycho Pirate) I'd never even heard of JS. From the last two vids, I agree that he has potential. I always appreciate you introducing me to new characters. The first King of Tears rendering looks like some Caviar gone wrong. In fact, both of them give me seafood vibes. I am not eating that.
Thanks for the info on Johnny Sorrow! I'd love to write him as a villain based around showing people the image they cannot handle, maybe with a countdown or buildup like The Ring, with his victims ultimately helping him bring forth the King of Sorrows. Sometimes these would be psychic visions or dreams, whereas at other times they would be media: staged events, videos, books. A whole "Don't look at the bad thing" vibe. I think I'd also work in some kind of agenda where Johnny is trying to subtly escape his servitude. Facing him would be horrifying but it would also often lead to the hero becoming stronger emotionally or psychologically... he could be a go-to villain for stories based around changing the personality of a character long-term.
I hope these get to explore more of the JSA. Captain Marvel, Spider, Stargirl, Power Girl, and some Johnny Sorrowm
I just love this guy. The ham actor turned crook turned this nightmare, the entire "face that can kill" and the cool floating mask, he really clicks.
Johnny sorrow is a pretty cool character idea and he could have been a good main villain for season 4 of Stargirl, they mentioned Sandy and instead of the Specter because they didn't want to add him in the Eclipso season they could have Dr Fate defeat the king of Tears
The JSA is a part of the DC universe I know very little about, so I'm really enjoying these retrospectives. Keep 'em coming!
When your main henchman Icicle states "the worst thing that ever happened to me" is the day he met Johnny Sorrow...
I love these catch up videos!
Thanks I'm having fun making them :)
The best use of the King in Yellow I've seen was ... that Lovecraftian dating visual novel Sucker for Love.
Life is weird and that portion was gloriously overwritten, overperformed and better than Sorrow could ever be.
That game is so fun!
Ah yes, the game where you date a busy Cthulhu.
I just realized. When villains kill, more often then not people just die, but anytime a hero kills, it always just happens to be in a way that makes a powered supervillian
Given that the Marvel universe isn't full to the brim with superpowered undead mafia guys, you have just proven that the Punisher is definitely not a hero. Wolverine ain't looking to good either, although he has spawned a few D-listers.
With everything I've learned here I'd say that Johnny Sorrow is vastly underutilized. If the Lovecraftian angle is played up more he could easily be a big time villain.
I directed a low budget movie of The King In Yellow when I was in college and I definitely agree with you that that kind of implied cosmic horror could work really well with Johnny Sorrow. Could be really cool! Love your channel!
That issue of jsa was good. You could tell that Sands was so unprepared for what he did and that it really shook him
I'm enjoying the catch up videos. One thing I would love to see you cover is John Ostrander's run on The Spectre from the '90s.
The recent videos about Captain Marvel/Shazam and the JSA heroes from the golden age made me think of a golden age Captain Marvel character that from what I've been able to find, never resurfaced after the two issues he's from. Bilbat, AKA, Capmarv from Whiz Comics #41-#42. He's Billy Batson's descendant from the 30th Century who calls on the power of Shaz, meaning he lacks the power of flight and the courage, so he's pretty cowardly.
It just seems so weird to me that DC never tried to bring this guy back in the Legion of Super-Heroes. He's from the right time period, his lack of flight could be make up for the lack of flight and you could get a story arc of him trying to be courageous like his ancestor. So weird to think Capmarv predates the Legion of Super Heroes by 15 years.
The great thing about DC is they personify ideals very well.
This is where the Cthulhu mythos starts to fall apart.
If The Deep Old Ones could be overcome with nothing more than belief then they lose all power.
The point of Lovecraft is the dread of facing the unknown, and realizing how insignificant the individual is.
I can't separate the King of Tears from the King-of-All-Tears from The Invisibles. But if they are connected that actually opens up some interesting potential.
Speaking of cosmic horror, the Si Spurrier/Mike Deodato story in the latest Flash issue was a blast to read and I'm excited for their run in September.
Had to look up king in yellow because of you. And I’ve got to say I’m delightfully surprised
Every video of yours I can not help put eye your graphic novel shelf to see what's been added. Love the shelf! I also Lovecraftian stories, there's more to the world than we know
I think it's cool when comic book writers and artist influenced by outside lore and mythology; When done right it always adds something extra to the story.
Even instadeath can be expanded by examining the dying's perceptions. What are *they* experiencing? How much time do they think passed in those brief moments. The inexorable descent into madness could be brutally slow & painful from their POV. Maybe those visions are something completely unique to their specific psychological weaknesses. This could be a VERY deep playground.
Since it hasn't been 'revisited' in a few decades, I'd love to see Johnny Sorrow return along the lines of Dr. Destiny as seen in The Sandman. A guy who shows up and warps reality around him, so people sink deeper and deeper into their own fears and neuroses, going more and more crazy until they die. So, along the lines of what Sasha said, lol!
I wonder if the King of Tears from the JSA story had any connection to the King-of-All-Tears from Grant Morrison's The Invisibles. Both are extra-dimensional nightmare entities that wanted to invade the universe and had basically the same name. It was not unknown for DC superhero stories to reference Vertigo stories back in the day, like when Peter David referenced Lucifer abandoning in Hell in one of his Supergirl stories. My head cannon is that they were the same entity trying to invade two different universes in the DC multiverse.
Stay gold 💛 Sasha..love your well versed commentary...references...drip
I loved the Johns' JSA run, and always thought Johnny Sorrow had potential! I haven't read the Power Girl issue yet but was excited to hear Sorrow was back ~ I like your ideas for incorporating more Mythos ideas!
Think I first come across Johnny in the Suicide Squad vs Justice League Rebirth and..... he felt fucking terrifying.
8:23
That first KoT design made me actually uncomfortable, you don’t even know what you’re looking at. This bug with tentacles no as impressive. Love the videos!
P.S. I like the questions in the community tab and I hoping other people do too
Great video! Did you see that powergirl costume redesign? Now she has pants and a red jacket (like conner). Omen looks great as well. 😊
Ever since I found out about Johnny Sorrow I've loved his design, it's very evocative!!!!! I'm excited to read the stuff that has him but it is a shame that he doesn't seem to be used as well as he could be. Nowadays we've got some really good horror/horror adjacent writers on DC books, I think James Tynion IV or Ram V could do some wonderful stuff with Johnny. I would especially love to see him drawn by Rafael Albuquerque and Dave Stewart, that early Ram V detective comics art is so wonderful. Also would love to see DaNi draw him but I'm probably biased cause she's my favorite ever.
An interesting character that more horror stuff can be done with
6:20 missed opportunity: "I understood that reference." ;)
Johnny Sorrow reminds me of that villain Ghost (the Dark Horse heroine) faced in her early stories, Cameron Nemo. I've never liked Psycho Pirate, so Johnny Sorrow strikes me as a huge improvement, villain-wise.
I don’t have much of a thought on improving Johnny Sorrow, other then my mind cannon has him sounding like Samantha’s father Maurice on Bewitched , the late Maurice Evans 🖖🏾
This sounds more like a Doom Patrol adventure than a JSA one
going to have to read more of Geoff's JSA. Give us a sequel to The doom that Came to Gotham with Johny Sorrow could be quite fun...eather one.
So you mention the Scarab. At first, I thought you were talking about the Silver Scarab, but the costume did not match. So I went looking because is not always that I see a DC character that I do not know. So okay the Scarab, probably a quick character created for that story. But then again I was wrong. The Scarab is a Vertigo character with his own miniseries that James Robinson and Geoff Johns used in the JSA title. Also, his comic makes a crossover with Indigo Prime which is a 2000AD comic. Such a fun rabbit hole that you send me. God, I love comics.
This character design really works for me on a lot of levels
The original appearance of the King of Tears seemed inspired by Azathoth (or perhaps Yog-Sothoth).
Each is often portrayed as a chaotic mass of eyes, tentacles, and mouths.
I really enjoyed this era of Sand. Wish we would get more of him.
You’re right about the potential for Johnny Sorry. Not surprised Williams dropped the ball in the PG Special with him, that whole series is a massive ball drop.
Too often writers write what they want instead of writing things that fit the particular character.
Would you ever talk about the random times spider-man pressed down on his webshooters with just one hand, or explanations to how he doesn’t accidentally shoot webs when punching
😮 hey Sasha - thanks for this video 😕 I was reading Earth-2 Society and Johnny Sorrow there was as usual menace.
And, 🎭 Psycho Pirate appears in Dawn of DC Shazam issue 2 (Captn M (billy no….almost whopped him 😮)).
I was curious about Johnny after the whole Power Girl thing, so thanks for this.
Johnny Sorrow reminded me of a Grant Morrison villain ala Mister Nobody with Lovecraftian vibes, so totally in agreement that it's something to be explored deeper.
Sasha knowing about Signalis makes me so happy, I did not expect that
Thank you! I had no idea who this guy was readin the PG book.
I haven't read any Justice Society comics, so I don't know much about Johnny Sorrow.
That said, judging by your video, I can see a lot of potential.
There's also some "In the Mouth of Madness" vibes I get from him.
It's just instead of an insane author wanting to plunge the world into Lovecraftian horror, it's an ex-actor.
Would you be interested in ever doing Infinity Inc as some other JSA-associated characters lost to time and reboots?
Thanks, I was wondering about Johnny Sorrows back story / origin 😀
I picked up The Justice Society Returns issues when they were new and picked up the JSA trades when they came out (and later the Omnibuses). Basically this was the only franchise I followed at the time. Great stories and art. 10 out if 10.
I wish we had more Golden Age type stories, they have simplicity yeah in terms of villains but that allows for more character centered moments
Idk, not a fan of revealing the unknowable evil when you establish your whole power around unknowable evil
I'm always fascinated to learn about these characters that I've never even heard of!
I'm always here for more discussions about the King in Yellow and how it can be adapted into fiction. It's one of my favorite Lovecraftian style stories, surpassing most by Lovecraft himself.
So, if you want a pretty good cosmic horror story, try the Chzo mythos series, or the days series as some call it. It follows a story of people becoming involved with a cosmic horror in non chronological order. So learning about how things connect from time period to time period is what makes part of the mystery of what exactly is happening more interesting.
The first game is called 5 days a stranger.
How dare you say Johnny Sorrow is boring! He's one of my favorite JSA villains, alongside Gentleman Ghost.
Yes! A fellow Johnny Sorrow/Gentleman Ghost fan! I knew there had to be more of us somewhere out there.
Honestly, I have a real soft spot for forgotten/underrated villains in comics, and Sorrow/Ghost are no exception in that regard. However, I have to admit, Sorrow hasn't been used nearly enough as he should be in the DC Universe, and I feel like there's still a lot of room to explore his full potential. Same with Gentleman Ghost, honestly - I have a whole thing in mind for how I'd write him and his connection to the Hawkman/Hawkgirl family.
She was quoting the responses she received, she didn’t actually say those things
Love your storytelling❤️
Jonny sorrow is a really interesting concept, that I think so much could be done in the right hands.
I personally think they dropped the ball not doing more with the tears from the Spector after he devoured the king of tears. Because the Spector is supposed to be a nigh omnipotent godlike being, and the literal tears from a god could really be interesting to follow up on and develop.
I definitely can see the irony of Jonny Sorrow’s story. He was a silent film star until the media became obsolete. Then turned to crime, but got nearly killed by someone else who felt overlooked and undervalued like him. Only to be brought back by a lovecraft horror, only to be frequently upstaged by his new boss when he entered the scene.
I definitely agree that instant death every time people see his face doesn’t add much. Perhaps a glimpse into this lovecraft universe that drives them mad, or have them get overwhelmed with such intense emotions of sadness. Other DC Villans have used emotions to there advantage like Scarecrow or the Sinestro corps with fear, Joker with laughter and insanity, and Atrocitus with Rage. So a villain that focuses on sadness and depression is something I feel can go places.
Hell maybe have Jonny Sorrow team up with Joker and be the living evil team up of comedy and tragedy.
Hahaha using the dust jacket as a bookmark, I can’t even leave the dust jacket on books because I’m afraid of ripping them.
I got the lovely Akira box set a few weeks ago, and as much as I love the spines of the jackets I’ve took them off and left them in the box. The spines still look nice, but I prefer the spines of the jackets.
Great video!
Since I doubt we'll ever see a return to the Amalgam Universe how about a spotlight on the last Marvel/DC crossover that I'm aware of- the JLA/Avengers meeting?
I love those ideas Sasha! I agree, Johnny Sorrow is absolutely a villain with a lot of potential if DC would just take the time to tell the story.
It's a but off topic but do you think you'd be interested in making a video about the different hero lairs? I really liked you vid on the backstory of batman's giant penny and it got me curious if there were more of these stories out there for other heroes.
Based on these recent videos I ordered the JSA Omnibi the other day.
They're a good time!
I used to just read current comics. More so, only main continuity. Earth 1/Prime. Then I decided to give New 52 Earth 2 a chance and loved it. That´s why I´ll be reading New Golden Age and also have plans to read the JSA Geoff Johns run.
With all those Hal Jordan jobs you collecting, are you still making sure to remember him for the planes her flew?
"essentially tells Johnny Sorrow that he did it to himself" Inquiring minds want to know - Is that why it really hurts?
You gotta talk about his rebirth era where he was on a team with emerald empress
Did you ever do a video on Psycho Pirate?
I'm always excited to hear Denny Quotes.
I have no idea who Johnny Sorrow is. Not sure I've read a book with him in it. Seems like he came and went durring my gap years.
I read Johnny Sorrow ORGIES and was "yeah, that would definitely be scarier!"
Being the harbinger of the world's destruction and the ascension of unspeakable monstrosities ... but everyone still calls you "Johnny", not "John".
…but is it lovecraftian? Really interesting character- gr8 job!
Johnny Sorrow’s origins kind of reminds me of Ian Peek fate in Batman Beyond, but more Lovecraftion
Hey Casually Comics! Moonknight has encountered Jack Rustle again in the latest moonknight run, might be a good one to revisit.
I think I read this issue, it's been a while but I was collecting JSA at that time. I will agree Freaks is a fantastic movie. as a suggestion would love a deep dive on the drug issues from Amazing Spider-Man.
Cool kids ABSOLUTELY use the dust jacket as the bookmark.
Oh heck ye, King in Yellow in these DC comic essays? Sweet!
Great vid
Took me a second to figure out that I recognized the name King-of-(all)-Tears wasn't the same as the one from the Invisibles. Though both have those Lovecraftian vibes though.
5:39 "Good use of intercessor, you do *not* hear that word a lot."
Every Warhammer 40K player on the planet begs to differ.
Lol I don't play Warhammer
@@CasuallyComics Trust me, you're better off not. But the company chose to name one of the poster child units in the game "Intercessors" a while back because "Marine Tactical Squad" was too hard to defend a copyright on. And they are definitely not using the word right.
The King of Tears looks like the big brother of the Black Mercy plant.
I do like the King of Tears' design
Hey casually what’s the video. Game you mentioned in the video I couldn’t figure out how to spell it lol?
Signalis
Wait.......there's a JSA omnibus?
I'll be right back!
One of the best stories done in recent memory
I always get Johnny Sorrow and Psycho- Pirate mixed up.
Psycho-Pirate is the one who actually has a head. I'd call Johnny's look pretty distinctive, little as I think of the character.
No matter how much I try, I always hear Johnny Sorrow as Johnny Sins and think how awesome that would be.
I always get him and Mr. Bones mixed up.
Great Review.I'll give Leah Williams a little credit for bringing him back but not for that Power Girl story.But Johnny Sorrow not setting the world on fire? When he teamed up with Despero,it took the whole JLA & JSA to take him down.I wouldn't compare him to Psycho Pirate,Pirate is a guy that anybody would want to punch in the face for being manipulative,so he's not as powerful.
Johnny Sorrow is the best underrated terrifying villain....it's shame that DC didn't explore him very much.