I haven’t threaded a tape in years (although I spent many years aligning and running analog tape in the studio before everything went digital) This is a very helpful reminder of how to do it correctly. Thanks for posting it!
Hi, how are you? I have two big (two inch) studio reels, It has it has the magnetic problem, and the music is only there, can you help transfer it, let me know, so we can talk some business.
Just wondering, let's say you've recorded audio at 15ips. Is there a difference in sound quality if you transfer that tape at 7,5ips to your DAW and time-stretch the audio digitally 50% and with the "preserve pitch" deactivated obviously?
Hundreds of Half Speed Mastered records and they sound great. (One exception. CBS.) The tape speed, the cutting lathe and the RIAA EQ cutting curve are all dropped in half. And then you play them back on your turntable at normal speed. You own any MFSL records? You will see my point. I hope this answers you question.
As far as I understand it, a digital recorder would basically just be a DAW + an Audio Interface to get sound in and out of the computer. So the answer would be yes, since an audio interface is going to require A/D converters in order to make that transition
I have question , i bought Akai 650 D , 4 track playback and 3 speed . And also I have akai 2000S I play my tape in Akai 2000 , it is worked fine , but when I play it in Akai 650D , there is no indication VU . Why is this happened since they are both 4 track
It's fairly standard- 1k, 10k, plus 100Hz and/ or 50 Hz. This is important because you set the overall repro amp (playback) level based on the 1k tone, and the other two tones allow for high and low frequency equalization. On a multitrack tape where you have to line up more tracks from the tones, which takes longer, it's good practice to leave longer tones, typically a minute each, whereas with stereo tones 30 seconds of each is adequate.
If you make those VUs hit 0 your peaks will at least be 6db over the 0 mark. VUs are RMS, they don't show peaks, that's why you need a peak meter too. When i was in broadcasting(TV station) they would say that the levels should hover round -6. I had no idea what they meant at the time cause everything was already digital and most of the digital metering is peak. Not until I got a tape machine(with VUs) and a console with LED peak meters it dawned on me what those old engineers were talking about. I dunno about 3 and 1/4 speed but do this at 15ips and you'll clip the console or the machine output.
You are correct that peak levels will be significantly higher than VU levels, but the fact is that most engineers targeted a level around 0 dB VU when mixing- sometimes higher! So using this as a target for program material when you don't have tones is a good practice, as it will get you close to the operating level of the original mixdown machine. If you have tones, you should obviously use them to set operating/ repro levels (and you will find that the mix levels sit around 0dB VU when you do, invariably!). If you have a peak meter, and set your repro gain so that the peak levels are hitting 0dB peak rather than working from the preeminent practice of using a VU meter and setting repro gain for 0dB VU, your transfer will be unnecessarily low in level, and you will have reduced the dynamic range/ decreased the signal-to-noise ratio of the transfer (you'll have more tape noise than you need). Tape machines are designed to have adequate headroom in their repro amps and output electronics, at transfer the console is just for monitoring, and so "clipping" it is not a great concern for the quality of the transfer. But most importantly, this is just how it is (was) done- using 0dB VU as the level reference, and when you're working without tones you are trying your best with your limited resources to get in the vicinity of what the tape is "supposed" to sound like.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Makes sense, I've heard stories people pegging MCI multitracks to +1 on VUs and complaining that "Why is it all distorted?", even if the tape machine can handle it I'm pretty sure that no master section on the console can't lol Also depends on the machine/console.. For example Otari MTR10 doesn't really like to be pushed over its limits too much(even though the red light goes off at +12). Also some consoles have VUs instead of led peak meters so it's easy to imagine that people would just go for the 0. Ampex i would imagine can take a lot more levels than other mixdown decks.
0 VU equals +4 dBu, the clipping point on most professional audio gear is at around +24 dBu, 20 dB above 0 VU. Having peaks 6 dB above 0 VU is a non-issue, you still have plenty of headroom before you actually hit the clipping point. I would only be worried of hitting 0 on a VU meter if said meter had an awfuly slow needle and the unit had a pretty low clipping point, which is actually an scenario I've been in, but definitely wouldn't call it the norm.
I wonder if you took those little packets that you get to keep moisture out of items, and put them in the tape case and see if that works. If baking tape takes out the moisture, why wouldn't that work. People have dropped their cellphones in water and used the little packets to dry them out. I always save them incase I need them to dry out my phone. I have at least 20 scotch on 10 1/2" reels and 4 ampex I think are the 456 that have sticky shed syndrome. I think I will try it.
Hi, Yes, desiccant packets are a good idea for keeping tape dry. When we send tapes out after sessions, we put them in plastic bags with a packet in each. I don't believe they will work for tapes that have become sticky- baking actually changes the tape chemically through heating, whereas desiccant packets would only absorb some ambient moisture/ humidity from the air surrounding the tape. Let us know if you try it and it works, though!
I dig where you are coming from. I work with my Uncle in his studio. I love analog. We just purchased a used SSL4098 G / G+ mixing board. We had to take out a wall to put this thing in. Get this, the automation data is stored on 3.5 inch floppy disks. The mixer is over 30 years old. Beautiful transfromerless analog sound. Fully restored. 1984 - 1995 was the age of the large scale boards. I think only 40 of these were ever made. But even with it's age the SSL4098 G / G+ was $250 000! Uncle Jack had to sell one of his foreign properties to make the purchase. However back in 1982 many engineers gladly embraced digital multitracks. Why? - No bleed through between tracks. - You could internal bounce with no feed back, distortion, loss of level, increase in noise or change in frequency response. - Synchronizing as many machines as you want without losing tracks to SYNCH pulse. - The ability to make a perfect copy of your multitrack. - 100 db (A weighted) signal to noise ratio With no use of NR. - No wow and flutter. - non destructive digital editing. - You can track /mix the tape as much as you want with no loss of highs or transient response. - There is a lot more to that list but I think you get my point. Most of the harsh or unpleasant digital sound came from primitive converters like the Sony PCM 1600. Or the recording levels being pushed to 0 dbfs. 0 dbfs does not equal 0VU. Technician know this stuff but you would be surprised at how many Professional audio engineers don't. You even have a few engineers who admit that they over load the drums recordings on digital. They actually think digital distortion sounds good. PCM distortion sounds like crap. It sounded like crap in 1982 and it still sounds like garbage in 2020. And it is being used more and more on Metal records. So that distortion you think is the amps turned up loud is in fact PCM distortion. No wonder so many prefer analog. In a 24 bit system 0VU is equal to -18 dbfs RMS. (Average not PEAK) Don't peak over - 6 dbfs PEAK. (Not average) In Europe it is - 20 db RMS. In the days of 16 bit: 0VU is - 12 dbfs RMS. Don't peak over - 3 dbfs. (PEAK not average)
![Recording Drums With Steve Albini [Third Circle Recordings]](/img/n.gif)
I haven’t threaded a tape in years (although I spent many years aligning and running analog tape in the studio before everything went digital) This is a very helpful reminder of how to do it correctly. Thanks for posting it!
I don't think the link he pointed to at 5:58 got put into the video.
Hi, how are you? I have two big (two inch) studio reels, It has it has the magnetic problem, and the music is only there, can you help transfer it, let me know, so we can talk some business.
Sure. Can you please email us? You can find our general email on our website, electricalaudio.com. thanks!
Just wondering, let's say you've recorded audio at 15ips. Is there a difference in sound quality if you transfer that tape at 7,5ips to your DAW and time-stretch the audio digitally 50% and with the "preserve pitch" deactivated obviously?
Hundreds of Half Speed Mastered records and they sound great. (One exception. CBS.)
The tape speed, the cutting lathe and the RIAA EQ cutting curve are all dropped in half. And then you play them back on your turntable at normal speed. You own any MFSL records? You will see my point.
I hope this answers you question.
Might be a stupid question but do you guys use an analog to digital converter when recording the tapes into the digital recorder?
As far as I understand it, a digital recorder would basically just be a DAW + an Audio Interface to get sound in and out of the computer. So the answer would be yes, since an audio interface is going to require A/D converters in order to make that transition
I have question , i bought Akai 650 D , 4 track playback and 3 speed .
And also I have akai 2000S
I play my tape in Akai 2000 , it is worked fine , but when I play it in Akai 650D , there is no indication VU . Why is this happened since they are both 4 track
When you guys recording a group, what tones do you print, for how long and how? What's kind of the standard?
It's fairly standard- 1k, 10k, plus 100Hz and/ or 50 Hz. This is important because you set the overall repro amp (playback) level based on the 1k tone, and the other two tones allow for high and low frequency equalization.
On a multitrack tape where you have to line up more tracks from the tones, which takes longer, it's good practice to leave longer tones, typically a minute each, whereas with stereo tones 30 seconds of each is adequate.
If you make those VUs hit 0 your peaks will at least be 6db over the 0 mark. VUs are RMS, they don't show peaks, that's why you need a peak meter too. When i was in broadcasting(TV station) they would say that the levels should hover round -6. I had no idea what they meant at the time cause everything was already digital and most of the digital metering is peak. Not until I got a tape machine(with VUs) and a console with LED peak meters it dawned on me what those old engineers were talking about. I dunno about 3 and 1/4 speed but do this at 15ips and you'll clip the console or the machine output.
You are correct that peak levels will be significantly higher than VU levels, but the fact is that most engineers targeted a level around 0 dB VU when mixing- sometimes higher! So using this as a target for program material when you don't have tones is a good practice, as it will get you close to the operating level of the original mixdown machine. If you have tones, you should obviously use them to set operating/ repro levels (and you will find that the mix levels sit around 0dB VU when you do, invariably!).
If you have a peak meter, and set your repro gain so that the peak levels are hitting 0dB peak rather than working from the preeminent practice of using a VU meter and setting repro gain for 0dB VU, your transfer will be unnecessarily low in level, and you will have reduced the dynamic range/ decreased the signal-to-noise ratio of the transfer (you'll have more tape noise than you need). Tape machines are designed to have adequate headroom in their repro amps and output electronics, at transfer the console is just for monitoring, and so "clipping" it is not a great concern for the quality of the transfer. But most importantly, this is just how it is (was) done- using 0dB VU as the level reference, and when you're working without tones you are trying your best with your limited resources to get in the vicinity of what the tape is "supposed" to sound like.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Makes sense, I've heard stories people pegging MCI multitracks to +1 on VUs and complaining that "Why is it all distorted?", even if the tape machine can handle it I'm pretty sure that no master section on the console can't lol Also depends on the machine/console.. For example Otari MTR10 doesn't really like to be pushed over its limits too much(even though the red light goes off at +12). Also some consoles have VUs instead of led peak meters so it's easy to imagine that people would just go for the 0. Ampex i would imagine can take a lot more levels than other mixdown decks.
0 VU equals +4 dBu, the clipping point on most professional audio gear is at around +24 dBu, 20 dB above 0 VU. Having peaks 6 dB above 0 VU is a non-issue, you still have plenty of headroom before you actually hit the clipping point. I would only be worried of hitting 0 on a VU meter if said meter had an awfuly slow needle and the unit had a pretty low clipping point, which is actually an scenario I've been in, but definitely wouldn't call it the norm.
I wonder if you took those little packets that you get to keep moisture out of items, and put them in the tape case and see if that works. If baking tape takes out the moisture, why wouldn't that work. People have dropped their cellphones in water and used the little packets to dry them out. I always save them incase I need them to dry out my phone. I have at least 20 scotch on 10 1/2" reels and 4 ampex I think are the 456 that have sticky shed syndrome. I think I will try it.
Hi,
Yes, desiccant packets are a good idea for keeping tape dry. When we send tapes out after sessions, we put them in plastic bags with a packet in each.
I don't believe they will work for tapes that have become sticky- baking actually changes the tape chemically through heating, whereas desiccant packets would only absorb some ambient moisture/ humidity from the air surrounding the tape. Let us know if you try it and it works, though!
Great video.
Hi! What patchbay is displayed on 6:03?
We have ADC TT patchbays, punchdown type. Thanks for your question.
Digital, no thanks.
I dig where you are coming from. I work with my Uncle in his studio. I love analog. We just purchased a used SSL4098 G / G+ mixing board. We had to take out a wall to put this thing in. Get this, the automation data is stored on 3.5 inch floppy disks. The mixer is over 30 years old. Beautiful transfromerless analog sound. Fully restored. 1984 - 1995 was the age of the large scale boards. I think only 40 of these were ever made. But even with it's age the SSL4098 G / G+ was $250 000! Uncle Jack had to sell one of his foreign properties to make the purchase.
However back in 1982 many engineers gladly embraced digital multitracks. Why?
- No bleed through between tracks.
- You could internal bounce with no feed back, distortion, loss of level, increase in noise or change in frequency response.
- Synchronizing as many machines as you want without losing tracks to SYNCH pulse.
- The ability to make a perfect copy of your multitrack.
- 100 db (A weighted) signal to noise ratio
With no use of NR.
- No wow and flutter.
- non destructive digital editing.
- You can track /mix the tape as much as you want with no loss of highs or transient response.
- There is a lot more to that list but I think you get my point. Most of the harsh or unpleasant digital sound came from primitive converters like the Sony PCM 1600. Or the recording levels being pushed to 0 dbfs. 0 dbfs does not equal 0VU. Technician know this stuff but you would be surprised at how many Professional audio engineers don't. You even have a few engineers who admit that they over load the drums recordings on digital. They actually think digital distortion sounds good. PCM distortion sounds like crap. It sounded like crap in 1982 and it still sounds like garbage in 2020. And it is being used more and more on Metal records. So that distortion you think is the amps turned up loud is in fact PCM distortion. No wonder so many prefer analog.
In a 24 bit system 0VU is equal to -18 dbfs RMS. (Average not PEAK) Don't peak over - 6 dbfs PEAK. (Not average)
In Europe it is - 20 db RMS.
In the days of 16 bit:
0VU is - 12 dbfs RMS. Don't peak over - 3 dbfs. (PEAK not average)