My fiancé was in the infantry, he got out of the army several years ago. One of his friends from the army just happened to live in the same state as us and one of them actually moved here with his wife and child to be closer to both him and his other friend since he didn’t have ties anywhere else. I’m really grateful for the relationship they have, they have been hugely supportive to each other. My fiancé isn’t so much stoic as a masculinity thing but more in a ‘always thinks of others before himself’ kind of way, he doesn’t like to burden other people and is extremely selfless. So having others around that know him well enough to know if something is going on and who talk to him often, in my opinion, has immensely helped his mental health. Though the military has extremely toxic ideas about getting help, disincentivizes it at every turn while you are in, make it difficult at every turn when you are out, and when discharged can rapidly decline your mental state since you don’t have the same support network. I do appreciate its ability to create lasting loyal friendships and bonds that supersede most others, and create safe places for men (specifically) to be comfortably vulnerable. I have strong... feelings about aspects of the military but I do acknowledge the individual good it has provided for some of the people in it. I just wish they would provide better care of the usually very young people they put in such a stressful environment.
i feel the main thing that would fix a lot of this is if our government actually gave a damn about individuals that this country wouldnt be able to exist without. as is they only care about the people up top in control which is just pretty much evil incarnate.
I think I commented but it got removed, yes good point! The military is such a conundrum. Some things wrong, some things right, but it crafts such amazing relationships that don't evolve in any other situation.
@@talkinbout8159 i cant think of any other reason whu posts would be auto deleted other than youtube bot censorship. happens to my comments often because i dont "watch my language"
Boomhaur is an interesting take on masculinity. You're right with his toxic dependence on sexual relationships, but his other expression of masculinity is a lot more well rounded than Hank and Dale (and Bill to an extent). He appreciates and understands art and philosophy. He also seems to be the most able to read and relate to the emotions of others. Consistently pointing out and gently correcting the errors in the ways of his friends. Perhaps too gently because his advice usually goes ignored.
That's true, he does have some truly insightful moments and the gang respects his advice. However, (and I'm not sure I'd have to take a tally) I think for every moment the show mentions how wise Boomhauer is, there's two more moments of him distancing himself from his friends and their problems. He seems far less invested in his friendships than Bill/Hank/Dale.
@@rangergxi Friendship is a two way street though. A network of friends is for the highs and the lows. Thinking of yourself as a burden to be only carried by yourself is playing into that "pillar of a man" trope.
Freaking loved this one TB. my girlfriend still doesn’t understand why I binge the show twice a year but I think you do. All of this just adds more headcanon on the depth and unbiased of the show.
So I'm a pastor, and I frequently draw from King of the Hill with my sermons because it's so danged culturally relevant. Thanks for this great insight. Really enjoyed clipping along with your analysis.
John Wayne, despite playing the rough and rugged military man on screen, never served a day of his life in the military. In fact, when WWII broke out, he stayed behind and made movies while his competition went to war (such notable individuals as Lee Marvin or Elvis Presley, for example). John Wayne's rise to being a big star was probably due solely to the fact he had no competition due to the war. While real life military veterans like Lee Marvin, Elvis, Charles Bronson, etc, never made a big deal about being a veteran, Wayne always insisted on playing pretend and being a character who is a caricature of a military man. John Wayne, never having served in the military, was responsible for such propaganda as Ballad of The Green Berets. Wayne tried one USO tour to entertain the troops in Vietnam and, remembering what poser he was, the veterans booed him off stage. John Wayne, being a poser who was more concerned with his own ego than with the troops, never did another USO tour again.
In fairness, John Wayne was 37 on D-Day. Lee Marvin was 20 and Bronson 22. And didn't Elvis go to Korea, which I feel isn't just "the war," which to me implies WWII. Look, I'm no John Wayne fan, but what was the likelihood that he would have been selected at that age, and would he even be useful at that age? And what better way to keep morale up than use a big time actor making propaganda films Hollywood style?
@@djbeezy He was stationed in Germany in the late '50s. Elvis was born in 1935 so he was too young to serve in WW2. Not trying to disprove your point, just wanted to point that out.
It's really sad that Rambo became idealized, Rambo was created to criticize everything wrong with how America treated Vietnam veterans. He was meant as a broken man shunned by his country after being used by it.
Came for King of the Hill. Stayed for discussions on societal views of manhood. Also for King of the Hill. This video reveals how thoughtful this show was with it's commentary on society and generational divides
Damn. Most of the struggles I faced as a boy becoming a man in the 2010s now make sense. I always wanted to be a "man" like my dad, but I also understand my dad was lonely and miserable, so I didn't know what to do. I fell into the trap of being stoic, a survivor, and a silent sufferer. Recently, I've begun opening up emotionally to my wife and men's group. I felt ashamed that I was emotional, and I hid that. I felt emasculated by it. I also feel as though needing therapy in the first place makes me less of man. I always felt like I needed to be a real man but I never quite knew how and so I've always felt like a failure. This video has literally changed my life.
It's worth noting how incredibly shitty Bill gets in the rare occasions he is on top. When he was made shelter leader, he locked up Hank. When he was in charge of the Little League team, he conspired to keep Hank away from Bobby. When he got in shape, he pushed away all his friends and neighbors. He is utterly dependent on people to survive, but when he doesn't need them, he then becomes an abuser to those very people who helped him most, and he takes noticeable pleasure in that abuse. I always wondered what the other side of the Lenore divorce looked like. Bill was more put together then, so how did he treat Lenore?
Susan Faludi is clearly way more intelligent and empathetic than anyone getting involved in politics today. i was blown away to hear this position rather than just strawmanning and dismissal.
EXCELLENT!!! I was born a Baby Boomer in the early part of that era and what you have shown and described in this video is exactly the way it has been. And I for one have lived it! THANK YOU!!!
This is so comforting. I always felt lost... And now you perfectly communicated what me, and so many other men have struggled with. The complicated, hard feelings that no one understands when it comes to being a man. Women don't understand it, but men themselves don't understand it either. Why is it so lonely being a man? I thought it should be easier... But it's so hard. So much anger, and pain, and sadness, but with no one to blame anymore. Just ourselves, against the world. I'm not strong enough to face the world. But you answered these questions. Thank you. I think what we all really need is community, and empathy. Something that most men lack. Now where to find this?
With each other is a start. Your comment comforted me. We can feel more confident knowing we're not alone. Building a physical community.. that's harder, something I hope to build at some point in my life.
I appreciate your absolute maturity in the comments and the effort the video took. Even if I don't agree on many of the points you have made I can appreciate the new outlook and your high quality videos.
@@noahsewell9615 Not counting formulating the idea but from the moment I start on the script, two and a half weeks 4-8hrs a day. But I'm obsessive over very tiny details that make little difference.
Same here. Loved the video but also love Jordan Peterson lol, but your conclusion and reasoning is well explained and relatable. Great content at any rate.
I'm so glad you brought up Bill last. Honestly bill is quite a fascinating character when you binge watch King of the Hill as I had been binging the show on Hulu. Bill really does seem the most like a stand-up guy and such a nice man, but because of his depression and neediness he comes off as weak and in some ways it overshadows how truly good of a man he is. I recall in some episodes Hank or whoever else just didn't have the solutions but thanks to Bill's kindness towards others he solved the problem.
I didn't comment for the algorithm, so I will now. This is one of my favorite channels, and I have consumed more YT as most cable television. You deserve better and when I can, I will support you. Until then, I like, I'm subscribed, and I share. Love you, brother. Always!
What? Peterson doesn't promote isolation as the key to improvement. Nor does he tie isolation to masculinity. Quite the opposite, actually. He frequently emphasizes how our social relationships are needed to keep us grounded and mentally healthy, and how masculinity is a tool that men use to provide and take care of for their community as generously as possible. So, in other words, he's not saying that you shouldn't try to help others, but that you can't do that effectively unless you've got your stuff together. Which doesn't mean other people can't help you on get on your feet, just that that's where you start if things are going badly. Then, as you become more and competent, you can begin helping others more and more and they'll help you back.
@@talkinbout8159 So you, I, and Peterson agree, actually. The more competent you become, the more able you are to help other people. And the more you help other people, the more competent you become. It's a two way street. Disagreement seems to stem from where that cycle starts. Probably should've clarified that in my initial comment.
@@thebigshot3082 I don't think there is anything malicious about what JP preaches, it's just too old school for me. I believe if there are societal problems we should be addressing those first because we can't wait for everyone to build themselves up. Plus those issues might be whats making men unhappy / unmotivated / etc.
@@talkinbout8159 Makes sense. Thanks for being reasonable and willing to have an actual conversation as opposed to letting things devolve into insults, mockery and cognitive dissonance.
This video may have genuinely just changed my life. Thank you. I feel like I understand myself, and my upbringing and where I fit in and what I need to do to make positive changes in my life for once. Thank you, truly.
this is easily one of the best videos explaining masculinity i’ve ever seen. the absolute icing on the cake is that this takes place extremely well in king of the hill.
Although I enjoyed the video I didn't really agree with the conclusion. Since I grew up without a father I never took up any hobbies, didn't read that much and didn't do well in school. I had a group of friends that I played video games with and that was all I cared about but it didnt make me happy. When I discovered Peterson (and others like him) I began to look at myself more critically and forced myself to get better grades and work out. Individualism isn't bad because you aren't thinking about others, its good because it lets you focus on yourself.
That's a fair point, I had a similar group of friends. I often tried to steer conversations towards serious matters but there was always a gut reaction to mock sincerity, never seem vulnerable. I wonder how successful a group of friends would be if they, after playing games, talked out goals and life concerns. It seems very hard to achieve, instead most are only comfortable doing that alone.
@@talkinbout8159 a group of brain dead gamers is pretty useless and seems like a stupid plan to create a better society; maybe dismissing Peterson and the value of individual merit and ambition is a tad short sited for someone who just spent 45 minutes detailing great insights. You also fail to mention where Bobby ends up as a person obsessed with others perception of him and an unwillingness to compete for himself. A group made of motivated individuals who are taught through word and example by parents can be a group that has fun, but also sets worthy examples for each other to aspire to, taking advantage of people’s inate competitive urge. Reducing Competition to some boutique affectation is an ignorant perspective to its actual value of pushing people to do their best work. Granted competition is best when it’s married with respect and admiration for your competitor. but the very essence of putting a man on the moon was a series of competitions between men, companies, schools, nations and governments. Without competition no real world achievements of benefit to society would occur.
Same here, this is exactly what I was thinking. Once TB got done with the analogies, I feel like he kind of jumped to conclusion Z via anecdotal evidence from A B & C, without considering the 22 letters in between. I don't know if that makes any sense, but it was really jarring how he kind of looked like he was going for an ending that considered all of the ways men were coping with a loss of masculinity (that he'd previously discussed in the video, not as a whole) and concluded that in the end an overwhelming pressure to be one way or the other was what really kept struggling men down. But instead he just started yelling at Jordan Peterson for like 7 straight minutes and declared the superiority of one specific way to be a man (in this case, becoming part of a brotherhood and being supported by others) while deriding a separate way of expressing that manhood (individualism, as JP promotes) as he did so. I'm a girl, so I don't know how valid my opinion is on this stuff, but it's really interesting to observe, especially with a baby brother who seems entirely lost in life and who is constantly chastised by my father for not living up to his ideals of being "manly enough". All he does in his life is play video games and lie about his schoolwork to play more video games, and when either of those things are threatened (either by having his electronics taken away or by being called out for his bad behavior), he begins to break down- causing my dad to get mad at him for crying a lot, and making things worse. He constantly talks about how he has no friends, and how all he has are his "friends" online, whom he's admitted to not even liking on several separate occasions. The parallels in this video really reminded me of their situation, and got me thinking about ways that I could possibly try to give my brother some guidance in his life, or at least nudge him into trying. I was seeing parallels to the baby boomer and the greatest generations in my own family, and I wanted to avoid that situation. So I kept listening, because I considered the insights TB gave before to be relatively knowledgeable and well thought-out beforehand and wanted to see what conclusion he'd make out of them. And when he kind of just brushed away every option other than joining some kind of fraternity, I was really disappointed. I'm afraid I've made this a little too personal and tangential at this point, so let me sum up my thoughts with something detached from any of my personal issues and far more concise. *TL;DR*, the ending disappointed me, primarily because the rest of the video seemed to be building up to a far more reasonable and understandable conclusion. TB, in my eyes, went from a logical thought-out argument that examined several different ways men struggled with changing standards of manhood and how they helped said men find acceptance in themselves or others, to a weird slant against Jordan Peterson of all people for promoting a lifestyle he didn't agree with.
@@doodle-oh I hope everyone experiences this video the way you did. This is exactly how I felt reading "Stiffed." The ending is essentially a shrug. A total "idk, men figure your shit out." It frustrated me. So, I brought everyone through what the book taught me and then had to give the ending my own go. I still gave a shrug because what do I know, I'm only one man I don't have all the answers. But that's the biggest point. No ONE MAN should be feeding us answers. Collectively we might be able to figure it out, but I, and JP, have no concrete solution. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I regret including Peterson. He's too much of a hot topic to just include without his own 40 minute evaluation to back up my claims.
@@doodle-oh Also I'm sorry to hear about your little brother. I can't offer any good advice but I will say this. Your empathy and concern for him alone will be tremendously beneficial. You may think, "of course I care, he's my brother!" But that isn't a given and many do not have that. Empathy is powerful.
unrelated but i tihnk its really neat how some americans consume so much slice of life animes and how some japanese people do the same with king of the hill. i think its becasue japan and america are so completely different in ideology yet still have this cultural telephone of capitalism, so i understand how people can spend all their time watching anime, because its so interesting seeing the differences and similarities of two wildly unique and interesting civilizations. i saw a joke on the internet where someone called king of the hill a slice of life anime for american society but honestly thats really what it is, as its a show made to document these common colflicts that arrise in daily american life, just like slice of life anime does with japanesse life. also i forgot to say i really loved the video and it was very clear and well put together
That is interesting! That's the second time someone's mentioned how the Japanese really enjoy KOTH. I always felt like you'd need to understand so much of our cultural subtleties and yet, apparently not.
This video is so good, it dismantled the war myths like I have never seen before! But men in the 50's were like that indifferent of war, cruelty apparently was part of a father's common set of tools for controlling his family. My grand father was never at war but he was terrible with his kids because that is what he got from his father. Now I see my dad struggling to "understand" his dad while retconning on all the bad stuff my grandfather made to his family, while I have already got to the point of *seeing behind the father figure and into the flawed man with it's grey areas* since my early 20's. Part of what made me love this show is it's portrayal of masculinity and all it's intricacies set by men themselves while being harmed by these.
I completely disagree with the final conclusion, brotherhoods aren't inherently against the stoic individualistic nature the Peterson preaches so I won't knock them. It's not so much that Peterson's view doesn't have it's downsides, but individualism requires it to thrive. The reason individualism is so important to me is because individualism is the father to liberty, they travel together, without it we don't have America. If I were to rely on brotherhoods first we wouldn't be an individualistic society therefore we will eventually lose more liberties. As for the strawmen bit: illegal aliens bring with them the cartels and become essentially a serf class to the elites, there's more to it than just 'muh jobs as the strawmen say. Feminists have railed against the traditional societal structures which while flawed did have a place for men, today's society separates fathers from children and gives them no alternative inherent meaning to said society. So we are left behind as an expendable population. What difference does it make if I died now other than some sadness for a few months within the family, compared to the working father of the 50s whose family heavily depends on his bread winning. And if I criticize feminists, then I just get lectured about toxic masculinity or sexism or something without actually addressing my issues as they continue stripping away the little tradition that gives me some miniscule meaning.
The deep tie of individualism and liberty is a good point. I would say though, that a brotherhood based on benefit (like I'll watch your back you watch mine), can still maximize freedoms. It only crumbles on a large scale which is why I'm for small, local, brotherhoods. I think it's possible to criticize feminism respectfully. It just needs to start from an understanding of where women have come from. They are on an upward trajectory from a low place on the totem pole. Men are on a downward trajectory. Neither should have to give up rights/freedoms for the other, so we need cooperation and understanding. Instead of asking, "why don't women have to sign up for the draft?" we should ask "why do men have to sign up for the draft?". Conscription takes away all personal freedom.
@L Lawliet Bubba said, "I'm gonna lean up against you, you just lean right back against me. This way, we don't have to sleep with our heads in the mud. You know why we a good partnership, Forrest? 'Cause we be watchin' out for one another. Like brothers and stuff." That is what it is all about. We all need each other, so we don't have to sleep with our heads in the mud. You get it?
I think this touches something else that's been lost. Localism, how many local organizations, shops, churches, teams, etc. have been lost due to something more centralized taking its place. Intentional or not. Which has become even worse due to modern mass media. We've gone from that small band of brothers to being marbles just bouncing off each other in some giant bowl. All mashed next to each other but completely unconnected, like strangers in a subway car. And let's face it, local people with strong bonds are going to be able to recognize and figure out how to solve a local problem faster than some national or international organization will. Unless it's something catastrophically huge, then a larger organization would work better. The problem is that when that catastrophically large disaster happens the larger organization doesn't ever allow local bonds and structures to reforge leaving a bunch of lost individuals unable to reforge those bonds. Which may or may not be intentional or just happen to be the path of least resistance to retaining power.
Loved the video, but the jordan peterson comments are objectively fals e. He's never focused on that, he'd says opposite that men ARE emotional but socially culturally by people before can't express it.... please do more research, JP is annoying but for sake of truth you're stating falsehoods. JP mentions importance of fathers and sons.... lovingly and supportive, you didn't even research the clips you used did you? Of course not lol...
For real man, I live like 30km from the dude, I've actually met him in Toronto, like... He's a decent guy and just wants the best from everyone. The media has framed him so badly >_> I mean... I do like the memes tho lmao
This was a really sicc analysis. I think the trauma of war, or just life, and how men have been conditioned to cope with it over the generations is a huge theme in KOTH. TBH, I'm a little wary of some of the framing here and there, but I am not a man, and did not read the book, so carry on good sir. I LOVE that your conclusion is for emphasizing community and brotherhood. There's so much to chew on in this essay as there is in KOTH.
You just earned yourself a life long sub with this one man. I am a full time game soundtrack writer I'd love to help you with some back ground music in the future man!
I think this video is very well put together. But to call Hank and Bobby's father son relationship "troubled" is something I fundamentally can't agree with, and in my opinion calling their relationship troubled goes entirely against what the show is about. Hank and Bobby don't see eye to eye, but those differences aren't signs of trouble but rather growing moments for both. In the very first episode Hank puts it best when Bobby worries that Hank is disappointed in him, Hank puts it very simply "I am proud of you because you're my boy." I think this was very deliberately done so in the first episode to set the bar for the rest of the series: "No matter how much these two don't understand or get one another, they still deeply love and care for one another." I care to say this is the furthest thing from a 'troubled' relationship.
I appreciate the further discourse. I stand by a troubled relationship though. Hank has a limited understanding of what a father should be from his own experience with Cotton. He is consistently disappointed with his son and refuses to understand Bobby will not fit the mold of his own ideal. Further he can be downright cruel, like when he opted for Bobby to live in the doghouse when Bobby developed allergies. Watch the show again through the light of "what if my father did this to me" and it becomes very apparent how terrible Hank can be to Bobby.
@@talkinbout8159 I disagree, a lot of the Episodes about Hank not understanding Bobby end with Hank instead turning around on his initial opinion and standing behind Bobby in how he handled something, but also vice versa. To take an example, the rose-growing episode ends with Hank embracing Bobby's hobby the way Bobby understood it. Hank does so, by giving it a place in his lawn. The show consistently shows that Hank is VERY particular about what is and isn't allouwed on his lawn, and having a place there means it means a lot to Hank or is something Hank can feel respect/admiration for or at the very least he understand that these roses mean a LOT to Bobby and thus is willing to give them a spot on his lawn (as he did with the gnome that one time for Peggy). Also the matter of the Dog House, in that Episode Bobby himself chooses to make life in the Dog House, Hank doesn't force it upon him. Hank is rarely corporal with Bobby, even in the episode where Bobby STOLE his credit card, Hank sat down with Bobby to have a very realistic and cordial talk about money, and money related accessories. With Bobby the punishment is either grounding or being send to his room. To say they understand one another, that is fair, but to say they are troubled, is something I consider a step too far. As troubled implies a stark emotional disconnect or unhealthy dynamic between the two. Bobby and Hank display their emotions in different ways, but at the end of the day both of them understand the bond they have for one another and can appreciate one another more for it.
@@edwinvanderhaeghen2221 I understand where you're coming from and those are good points, but we will have to agree to disagree. Despite happy resolutions there are just too many times Hank's 'subtle' disappointment in Bobby shine through. Take the ventriloquist episode for example; Hank does come around but his longing for a more masculine son is just too hurtful during the first 2 acts.
This was incredibly depthful analysis in a way that I don’t typically expect from video essays on King of the Hill. While your first video is a good thesis statement on the show’s overall meaning, this one takes smaller components from the show to illustrate something far, far greater in a way that anyone can understand and agree with. In the written form, this could be academically-published. F•••in outstanding work, brother, best media video essay I’ve watched of all time.
Amazing video! I am blown away at your analysis of these classic, down-to-earth characters! You sum up the generations of our sons, fathers, and grandfathers in a clear, understandable way, and I really learned something about what it means to be a man~
Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to find or make brotherhoods, its pretty rare nowadays, because of that the only people reliable in life is God and yourself. It’s true that you can’t solve all your problems on your own but you are responsible for what you do with that
Don't rag on Peterson. His points about if you feel lost and untethered to take on responsibility do actually work. They tether you to something and they give you an option for direction. Yeah its not perfect. But a generation of single mothers didn't do any better for us.
As great as your videos are (and I mean really great), the music choice to go with this and the other KotH video you made is just phenomenal. Great work.
KotH is like a comfort blanket I pull over myself whenever I want to relax. Great channel by the way - I found it today - you deserve many many subs and I'm sure they will explode if the algorithm gives you a nudge! :)
Thank you for making this video :-) of course when I was little, I didn't like this show :-/ just grown up talking, boring... I just remembered seeing it on T.V with my mom. I just go to my room and watch a person playing with a duckie or something lol. Anyways, love this show and I'm happy to hear your talking about it :-) 26•12•2023: Finished rewatching this video, wow, I love it even more! Sad to see it didn't get a ton of attention, but I love it still! I felt quite emotional around the end part, manily the whole we being intimate when alone. Don't know why it makes me sad, but still wonderful video!
I can’t stand cotton. I think Hank is genuinely a pretty good father. Or rather, he tries his best. And I respect that. As a leftist it’s probably strange I love King of the Hill. But I’m also a southerner. And I see a lot of what I do like about the south in Hank.
Self reliance and stoicism I believe are important for the cultivation of healthy masculinity. It has been documented by multiple cultures from Marcus Aurelius, Confucious, to Nichetize. You should act in a way that allows for the most self determination in your life, but should treat others with acceptance when they need assistance. Create the strongest person you can be reliant on.
While I agree with that, it's important to ask how we achieve that. I believe we achieve that through our relationships with others and our utility to our community.
@@talkinbout8159 The missing element of your argument ignores that fundamentally throughout centuries from leaders like Marcus Aurelius to warriors like Miyamoto Musashi is the overall theme of discipline as a tenant. Self discipline has proven to be one of the most effective forms of individual and societal health and wellness between the simple tasks of being able to show up to work on time, eating healthy foods, and getting enough sleep. You make this point against JP but his central meme of "making your bed" isn't a new or outdated lesson, the ideas of discipline has been a lesson for masculinity for centuries.
@@bubblewhip382 But that idea seems less an idea of masculinity and more an idea of functioning in our modern world. Making your bed doesn't make you a man (not to be reductionist, I mean his entire argument). Masculinity is far more than discipline, unless we are to assume women do not have that. Discipline is a good self help book idea, but what makes a man?
@@talkinbout8159 I think you are taking the 60 years of American history as the lens which you view male masculinity. The texts and ideas cited predate all that by centuries and have been aimed at an exclusively male audience as the gender roles and expectations of all cultures have put the expectation that men are to be placed in the most physically and mentally dangerous and life threatening circumstances ahead of the women and children of society, and the roles have demanded a level of physical discipline and obedience necessary for success. You can find this in all cultures throughout time and history between Ancient China, the Pigmys, Ancient Romans, and Native American tribes. It's been a constant throughout. It's only been very recently throughout human history that the western world in particular has had the luxury of defying gender roles because the responsibilities no longer directly correlate to survival of your family. The idea of masculinity is a social construct, and when you remove the physiological requirements of the historically male gender roles, there isn't a reason why women couldn't adopt those traits because of the roles they acquired. But the historical definition of masculinity was always rooted in the needs of the likely jobs that men were asked to do for centuries.
@@bubblewhip382 I really like this comment. My question is though, that because modern society has lessened the stress of "survival" or what I would call "provider" role, do you think it is time for our definition of masculinity to change in order to advance society? Yes, for a millenia masculinity was defined by a worrior complex, but because we are no longer constantly in a state of survival stress I feel that many men (including myself) will never reach that fulfillment of masculinity, so in order to allow men to reach said fulfillment isnt time to change the definition?
truly fantastic video essay. i learned a lot both about a show i truly love, and masculinity over recent (and historical) generations. i may just have to check out susan faludi's book! thank you for your incredible commentary.
What an insightful video; great job! I would love to see a follow-up on this, further analyzing other male characters in the series such as Kahn, Buck Strickland, or Lucky, and how they relate to Hank's ideas of masculinity.
4:44 Goddamn, look at those grizzled, pained and angry expressions. This is a victory phot, and there's not a single smile in the score. The pacific campaign was no fucking joke. These men look like they've had all the belief of human goodness sucked out of them from the war and its atrocities. Can't even imagine what it must've been like for them...
I grew up with one grandfather dead and the other in Mexican prison for murder. My dad is the classic "machismo" Mexican and i grew up loving video games anime and manga. I still dont know what being a man really means to my dad its following a religion being married and having a family. My father cared about appearances while i myself gave no fucks about it. I was always told to stop doing something because of how it made me look stop reading that people are gonna think your gay stop doing that people are gonna think you are retarded etc etc. In middle school my mother started losing her shit because of depression anxiety and her ocd which again appearances matter so all i ever heard was your mom is crazy she can't take care of herself. Her being knocked out because of meds and my dad in a diff city for work was forced to be the man at 13. I would do yard work i would do random ass home repairs i would be the one to board up the house for hurricanes. Family problems and other issues and by the time i was 16 i knew i was dealing with depression but i was fucking scared because of how my dad acted when my mom was at her worst i was fucking scared i was going to be treated like i was just sick it was not intil i had enough of feeling alone and empty and almost putting a bullet in my head that i got help. I still don't know what being a man is supposed to mean im just trying to live my life finding what makes me wanna keep moving forward.
For many of us that's all life is. Finding little scraps of motivation and joy that keep propelling us forward, and hope that one day we won't need to do that anymore.
@@talkinbout8159 that sucks majorly, sorry to hear that, man. Whether you get money from that video or not, luckily it brought me to your channel. You'll be getting more views from me in the future. I appreciated your perspective and your reply.
@@bmm1295 Thanks, it doesn't bother me much, I just don't like that someone IS making money off of it (Patsy Cline's estate). Even before it was seized it wasn't monetized. This is a hobby for me now. Maybe one day I can make it a job but I just like making them.
This is great review of the changing norms of masculinity in modern American history through KOTH. However, I think you strawman Peterson a bit by seemingly equating what he says to Ayn Rand style individualism. He's not against collective action outright. He simply believes that collective action by people who do not understand how to improve themselves will not know how to improve society, leading to bad outcomes. You don't need to be perfect to take collective action, but you need to understand how to make progress with yourself before you can understand how to make progress with society since after all, society is made up of individuals. But in any case I'm glad to still find people talking about KOTH after all these years. Still consider it among the best art of all time. Also btw, Peterson often pauses a lot when asked questions because he spends time thinking before he gives his answer
It's an artificial pause, I just found the editing funny. I understand where Peterson's coming from, the video is very reductive I know. I just disagree and I'm happy we can discuss it further. I think we improve ourselves, understand ourselves, BY improving our community/society.
@@tylerthompson3075 I dislike Peterson and think he willfully evades some subjects and talking points, but the one you're replying to isn't wrong when they say that Peterson doesn't exactly ascribe to the Ayn Rand school of thought.
Peggy was toxic femininity incarnate though, she's the worst character in the entire show because of how desperate she is to sabotage other people if they're better than her. She has a massive ego and puts others down for showing her that maybe she's not as smart as she thinks she is, even physically harming a student who verifiably knew better spanish than her just because she was intimidated by him. Peggy is a terrible character and if she were a man everyone would hate her even more.
45:02 I think something positive to take away from JP and his words of self reflection, is that we all need it to truly understand what kind of a brotherhood we belong in, else we become Bill, depressed because we haven't respected or understood ourselves at our base level and feel forever lost due to the lack of understanding. While I agree that it is very easy to get caught up in that idea of isolation and kind of give yourself psychosis, you're going to understand sooner or later (like Dill did) that loneliness as a alternative to loneliness isn't the answer. Bill just had to come back to that group because they kept getting renewed for more seasons. I love the crap out of this video, but as someone who understands these ideas of brotherhood you're talking about, JP definitely helped me defend myself mentally from the constant psychological warfare we experience today. It's hard for a lot of male adjacent's to stand up for themselves the right way, so that they can be understood and heard, instead of needlessly violent, or carelessly cruel, JP has got the right idea about standing up for yourself and admitting fault when it's realized. I think it's great to call people out when you see them doing something you don't think is so cool, I just think that not everything about that isolation is BS, a lot of folks don't understand their own minds and JP is saying you're the only one who can map it out for yourself, which is so true. Great video! 9.5 out of 10! You speak that true true, keep it up!!
Good points! I really rushed over the JP segment. I'm revisiting it in more detail and from a different angle since this clashed with a lot of people's personal experience.
also this video can relate to your sad girl video, this video got me thinking about how sad girls on tik tok could be in the same position as hank, where they grew up with stories of women and minorities (esp. people with mental illnesses/neurodivergent) being killed, discriminated against, and having all theese horrible things happening to them yet still holding strong and fighting back. they could be using the stories as their john wayne, their war stories and comradery that they dont have anymore today, and could be saying that the world is against them for all of their mental illnesses or whatever. idk the video just got me thinking
I feel like another-more meta-point that could be made about Hank having to “masculinize” his life is his role in the show himself. Hank often plays the straight man who has to keep people in line in the show, much like the role characters like Marge Simpson and Louis Griffin play in other adult cartoons. Meanwhile Peggy plays the more silly and more narcissistic role like Homer Simpson
Masculinity is a cultural construct. This is why its normal for males to hold hands in India but not elsewhere. Currently we are in a cultural debate about saying sex/gender/masculinity/etc, and it gets confusing, but social constructs are very different than the effects of sex hormones. Nature vs nurture. We have full control over the nurture part.
@@talkinbout8159 Come on. If masculinity is a 'cultural construct' then why does basically every culture have the idea of the 'protective and providing man'? Even developing separately? Italian men kiss on the cheek but at their core they are just as manly as the Japanese or Arabs. How do you explain that one?
@@jonj1163 We are saying the same thing, I think we're just talking past each other. Culturally men are different, what is ok for Italians to do isn't for Japanese. However, every man goes through adolescence. They all get all flood of hormones that grant certain base desires. So that's culture vs biology. This video is talking about culture. The things, like kissing men on the cheek, that we decide are acceptable or unacceptable.
@@talkinbout8159 you're saying that masculinity is not a cultural thing, its a universal thing. It has nothing to do with what culture wants it to be, but has every thing to do with what we all know in our hearts for it to be.
To protect and to serve the family and country. It has always been that way and will always be that way, despite what women think they can be, they will never be. It is what has kept our species alive for millions of years through our evolution. Has never had anything to do with culture. Kissing your fellow man on the cheek was common for thousands of years yet you would be forced to throw your life down for your country in order to protect your family even if it was a losing battle.
"Generational advice is useless if the rules keep changing"
Now that's bumper sticker material!
My fiancé was in the infantry, he got out of the army several years ago. One of his friends from the army just happened to live in the same state as us and one of them actually moved here with his wife and child to be closer to both him and his other friend since he didn’t have ties anywhere else. I’m really grateful for the relationship they have, they have been hugely supportive to each other. My fiancé isn’t so much stoic as a masculinity thing but more in a ‘always thinks of others before himself’ kind of way, he doesn’t like to burden other people and is extremely selfless. So having others around that know him well enough to know if something is going on and who talk to him often, in my opinion, has immensely helped his mental health.
Though the military has extremely toxic ideas about getting help, disincentivizes it at every turn while you are in, make it difficult at every turn when you are out, and when discharged can rapidly decline your mental state since you don’t have the same support network. I do appreciate its ability to create lasting loyal friendships and bonds that supersede most others, and create safe places for men (specifically) to be comfortably vulnerable. I have strong... feelings about aspects of the military but I do acknowledge the individual good it has provided for some of the people in it. I just wish they would provide better care of the usually very young people they put in such a stressful environment.
i feel the main thing that would fix a lot of this is if our government actually gave a damn about individuals that this country wouldnt be able to exist without. as is they only care about the people up top in control which is just pretty much evil incarnate.
I think I commented but it got removed, yes good point! The military is such a conundrum. Some things wrong, some things right, but it crafts such amazing relationships that don't evolve in any other situation.
@@talkinbout8159 wow yeah i saw your comment above mine and nothing was wrong with it, youtube bot censorship is utterly ridiculous and overzealous.
@@twilightsparkle75 You think that's what it was? That'd be wild
@@talkinbout8159 i cant think of any other reason whu posts would be auto deleted other than youtube bot censorship. happens to my comments often because i dont "watch my language"
Boomhaur is an interesting take on masculinity.
You're right with his toxic dependence on sexual relationships, but his other expression of masculinity is a lot more well rounded than Hank and Dale (and Bill to an extent).
He appreciates and understands art and philosophy. He also seems to be the most able to read and relate to the emotions of others. Consistently pointing out and gently correcting the errors in the ways of his friends.
Perhaps too gently because his advice usually goes ignored.
That's true, he does have some truly insightful moments and the gang respects his advice. However, (and I'm not sure I'd have to take a tally) I think for every moment the show mentions how wise Boomhauer is, there's two more moments of him distancing himself from his friends and their problems. He seems far less invested in his friendships than Bill/Hank/Dale.
I am so much like Boomhaur. I am a bit of a man whore (not on his level) but my loyalty knows no bounds.
@@talkinbout8159 He values his friends. Thats why he goes to extra lengths to not burden them with his problems, and worries.
@@rangergxi Friendship is a two way street though. A network of friends is for the highs and the lows. Thinking of yourself as a burden to be only carried by yourself is playing into that "pillar of a man" trope.
@@talkinbout8159 I didn't exactly say he was making a healthy decision.
Freaking loved this one TB. my girlfriend still doesn’t understand why I binge the show twice a year but I think you do. All of this just adds more headcanon on the depth and unbiased of the show.
“He just like me fr.”
Man I understand completely. If I ever just catch one episode I know I'm going to be starting the whole series over again.
She should watch with u!!! Takes time but she will like it. Lol
I used to have a gf who binge watched koth with me all the time. It was both of our favorite show.
Well said.
So I'm a pastor, and I frequently draw from King of the Hill with my sermons because it's so danged culturally relevant. Thanks for this great insight. Really enjoyed clipping along with your analysis.
That's really neat that you incorporate KOTH into your sermons! I would of loved going to church growing up if that was going on
You’re making me want to go to church for the first time. What a badass pastor
John Wayne, despite playing the rough and rugged military man on screen, never served a day of his life in the military. In fact, when WWII broke out, he stayed behind and made movies while his competition went to war (such notable individuals as Lee Marvin or Elvis Presley, for example). John Wayne's rise to being a big star was probably due solely to the fact he had no competition due to the war. While real life military veterans like Lee Marvin, Elvis, Charles Bronson, etc, never made a big deal about being a veteran, Wayne always insisted on playing pretend and being a character who is a caricature of a military man.
John Wayne, never having served in the military, was responsible for such propaganda as Ballad of The Green Berets. Wayne tried one USO tour to entertain the troops in Vietnam and, remembering what poser he was, the veterans booed him off stage. John Wayne, being a poser who was more concerned with his own ego than with the troops, never did another USO tour again.
Ronald Reagan liked to tiptoe around the issue similarly. Being in the 'Motion Picture Unit' was not a position that required bravery.
In fairness, John Wayne was 37 on D-Day. Lee Marvin was 20 and Bronson 22. And didn't Elvis go to Korea, which I feel isn't just "the war," which to me implies WWII.
Look, I'm no John Wayne fan, but what was the likelihood that he would have been selected at that age, and would he even be useful at that age? And what better way to keep morale up than use a big time actor making propaganda films Hollywood style?
@@johnnyrottenpiss Elvis went to Germany during WWII. He met his wife in Wiesbaden where I was stationed at. It was a huge deal there.
@@djbeezy He was stationed in Germany in the late '50s. Elvis was born in 1935 so he was too young to serve in WW2. Not trying to disprove your point, just wanted to point that out.
@@josippoljak7561 I will have to look that up to see. All I know is he met his wife in Wiesbaden. I'll do a little research.
It's really sad that Rambo became idealized, Rambo was created to criticize everything wrong with how America treated Vietnam veterans. He was meant as a broken man shunned by his country after being used by it.
Could you do a "Women of the hill" thesis?
Cause this was awesome!❤
I go to sleep watching Koth. Something about it calms me.
the way they speak & that its not wild all the time
Same. Seen every episode several times but it’s just… like a security blanket at night.
Literally every night king of the hill has to be on for me and my girl to go to sleep.
Same - every night - getting sleepy just watching this.
Yep.
Came for King of the Hill. Stayed for discussions on societal views of manhood. Also for King of the Hill. This video reveals how thoughtful this show was with it's commentary on society and generational divides
Damn. Most of the struggles I faced as a boy becoming a man in the 2010s now make sense. I always wanted to be a "man" like my dad, but I also understand my dad was lonely and miserable, so I didn't know what to do. I fell into the trap of being stoic, a survivor, and a silent sufferer. Recently, I've begun opening up emotionally to my wife and men's group. I felt ashamed that I was emotional, and I hid that. I felt emasculated by it. I also feel as though needing therapy in the first place makes me less of man. I always felt like I needed to be a real man but I never quite knew how and so I've always felt like a failure. This video has literally changed my life.
This is so relevant today. More people should see this video
It's worth noting how incredibly shitty Bill gets in the rare occasions he is on top.
When he was made shelter leader, he locked up Hank. When he was in charge of the Little League team, he conspired to keep Hank away from Bobby. When he got in shape, he pushed away all his friends and neighbors. He is utterly dependent on people to survive, but when he doesn't need them, he then becomes an abuser to those very people who helped him most, and he takes noticeable pleasure in that abuse.
I always wondered what the other side of the Lenore divorce looked like. Bill was more put together then, so how did he treat Lenore?
Putting Hank's gender as F was genius
I wouldn't be frustrated about it, but it's an error to be corrected ASAP
Was it really though , monkey?
My brother had that when he was born too. (Not in a trans person way)
Susan Faludi is clearly way more intelligent and empathetic than anyone getting involved in politics today. i was blown away to hear this position rather than just strawmanning and dismissal.
EXCELLENT!!! I was born a Baby Boomer in the early part of that era and what you have shown and described in this video is exactly the way it has been. And I for one have lived it! THANK YOU!!!
Thank YOU. Love hearing from peoples personal experience.
This is so comforting. I always felt lost... And now you perfectly communicated what me, and so many other men have struggled with. The complicated, hard feelings that no one understands when it comes to being a man. Women don't understand it, but men themselves don't understand it either. Why is it so lonely being a man? I thought it should be easier... But it's so hard. So much anger, and pain, and sadness, but with no one to blame anymore. Just ourselves, against the world. I'm not strong enough to face the world.
But you answered these questions. Thank you. I think what we all really need is community, and empathy. Something that most men lack. Now where to find this?
With each other is a start. Your comment comforted me. We can feel more confident knowing we're not alone. Building a physical community.. that's harder, something I hope to build at some point in my life.
@@talkinbout8159 Thats true pal. I am subscribing to you. Us lost boys ought to stick together.
I appreciate your absolute maturity in the comments and the effort the video took. Even if I don't agree on many of the points you have made I can appreciate the new outlook and your high quality videos.
That is all I hope! Entertainment and sparking new discussions.
@@talkinbout8159 how long did this take you to make btw?
@@noahsewell9615 Not counting formulating the idea but from the moment I start on the script, two and a half weeks 4-8hrs a day. But I'm obsessive over very tiny details that make little difference.
@@talkinbout8159 keep the quality up man you'll get your big break
Same here. Loved the video but also love Jordan Peterson lol, but your conclusion and reasoning is well explained and relatable. Great content at any rate.
I'm so glad you brought up Bill last. Honestly bill is quite a fascinating character when you binge watch King of the Hill as I had been binging the show on Hulu. Bill really does seem the most like a stand-up guy and such a nice man, but because of his depression and neediness he comes off as weak and in some ways it overshadows how truly good of a man he is.
I recall in some episodes Hank or whoever else just didn't have the solutions but thanks to Bill's kindness towards others he solved the problem.
This was a more interesting analysis on American masculinity than I ever could have expected coming from a King of the Hill video. Great work.
This video is so good that it makes me angry. Extremely good. Love it. So much. Very good.
Mana hater.
Secret of Mana
Came here from EmpLemon, was not disappoint. Keep up the work.
I didn't comment for the algorithm, so I will now. This is one of my favorite channels, and I have consumed more YT as most cable television. You deserve better and when I can, I will support you.
Until then, I like, I'm subscribed, and I share. Love you, brother. Always!
Such kind words, thank you! I often get exhausted doing this and working but its this internet bond that keeps me goin.
What? Peterson doesn't promote isolation as the key to improvement. Nor does he tie isolation to masculinity. Quite the opposite, actually. He frequently emphasizes how our social relationships are needed to keep us grounded and mentally healthy, and how masculinity is a tool that men use to provide and take care of for their community as generously as possible.
So, in other words, he's not saying that you shouldn't try to help others, but that you can't do that effectively unless you've got your stuff together. Which doesn't mean other people can't help you on get on your feet, just that that's where you start if things are going badly. Then, as you become more and competent, you can begin helping others more and more and they'll help you back.
That last sentence is what I think is the problem. I believe in the reverse, you become competent BY helping people.
@@talkinbout8159
So you, I, and Peterson agree, actually. The more competent you become, the more able you are to help other people. And the more you help other people, the more competent you become. It's a two way street. Disagreement seems to stem from where that cycle starts. Probably should've clarified that in my initial comment.
@@thebigshot3082 I don't think there is anything malicious about what JP preaches, it's just too old school for me. I believe if there are societal problems we should be addressing those first because we can't wait for everyone to build themselves up. Plus those issues might be whats making men unhappy / unmotivated / etc.
@@talkinbout8159
Makes sense. Thanks for being reasonable and willing to have an actual conversation as opposed to letting things devolve into insults, mockery and cognitive dissonance.
@@thebigshot3082 Civil debate is important and that I definitely agree with JP on.
This is such an amazing commentary on modern American culture and King of the Hill. Really brilliant man. Can't wait to watch this channel grow!
I’ve never looked very deep into some of the character dynamics on KoTH, so thank you for the in-depth analysis. Very well done!
This video may have genuinely just changed my life. Thank you.
I feel like I understand myself, and my upbringing and where I fit in and what I need to do to make positive changes in my life for once. Thank you, truly.
Thank YOU
Gosh this channel deserves way more subscribers! Loved this so much ♡
thanks!
This really showed me a lot about America, thank you. I watch this show on Hulu when I’m getting blasted or pissed so I never knew how deep it was
KOTH drinking games are the best drinking games
this is easily one of the best videos explaining masculinity i’ve ever seen. the absolute icing on the cake is that this takes place extremely well in king of the hill.
Keep coming back to this video
These KOTH videos made me discover you channel. It’s incredible! You deserve way more subscribers
Every video you make just gets better and better damn dude keep on going.
Although I enjoyed the video I didn't really agree with the conclusion.
Since I grew up without a father I never took up any hobbies, didn't read that much and didn't do well in school. I had a group of friends that I played video games with and that was all I cared about but it didnt make me happy. When I discovered Peterson (and others like him) I began to look at myself more critically and forced myself to get better grades and work out.
Individualism isn't bad because you aren't thinking about others, its good because it lets you focus on yourself.
That's a fair point, I had a similar group of friends. I often tried to steer conversations towards serious matters but there was always a gut reaction to mock sincerity, never seem vulnerable. I wonder how successful a group of friends would be if they, after playing games, talked out goals and life concerns. It seems very hard to achieve, instead most are only comfortable doing that alone.
@@talkinbout8159 a group of brain dead gamers is pretty useless and seems like a stupid plan to create a better society; maybe dismissing Peterson and the value of individual merit and ambition is a tad short sited for someone who just spent 45 minutes detailing great insights. You also fail to mention where Bobby ends up as a person obsessed with others perception of him and an unwillingness to compete for himself. A group made of motivated individuals who are taught through word and example by parents can be a group that has fun, but also sets worthy examples for each other to aspire to, taking advantage of people’s inate competitive urge. Reducing Competition to some boutique affectation is an ignorant perspective to its actual value of pushing people to do their best work. Granted competition is best when it’s married with respect and admiration for your competitor. but the very essence of putting a man on the moon was a series of competitions between men, companies, schools, nations and governments. Without competition no real world achievements of benefit to society would occur.
Same here, this is exactly what I was thinking.
Once TB got done with the analogies, I feel like he kind of jumped to conclusion Z via anecdotal evidence from A B & C, without considering the 22 letters in between.
I don't know if that makes any sense, but it was really jarring how he kind of looked like he was going for an ending that considered all of the ways men were coping with a loss of masculinity (that he'd previously discussed in the video, not as a whole) and concluded that in the end an overwhelming pressure to be one way or the other was what really kept struggling men down.
But instead he just started yelling at Jordan Peterson for like 7 straight minutes and declared the superiority of one specific way to be a man (in this case, becoming part of a brotherhood and being supported by others) while deriding a separate way of expressing that manhood (individualism, as JP promotes) as he did so.
I'm a girl, so I don't know how valid my opinion is on this stuff, but it's really interesting to observe, especially with a baby brother who seems entirely lost in life and who is constantly chastised by my father for not living up to his ideals of being "manly enough". All he does in his life is play video games and lie about his schoolwork to play more video games, and when either of those things are threatened (either by having his electronics taken away or by being called out for his bad behavior), he begins to break down- causing my dad to get mad at him for crying a lot, and making things worse. He constantly talks about how he has no friends, and how all he has are his "friends" online, whom he's admitted to not even liking on several separate occasions.
The parallels in this video really reminded me of their situation, and got me thinking about ways that I could possibly try to give my brother some guidance in his life, or at least nudge him into trying. I was seeing parallels to the baby boomer and the greatest generations in my own family, and I wanted to avoid that situation. So I kept listening, because I considered the insights TB gave before to be relatively knowledgeable and well thought-out beforehand and wanted to see what conclusion he'd make out of them. And when he kind of just brushed away every option other than joining some kind of fraternity, I was really disappointed.
I'm afraid I've made this a little too personal and tangential at this point, so let me sum up my thoughts with something detached from any of my personal issues and far more concise.
*TL;DR*, the ending disappointed me, primarily because the rest of the video seemed to be building up to a far more reasonable and understandable conclusion. TB, in my eyes, went from a logical thought-out argument that examined several different ways men struggled with changing standards of manhood and how they helped said men find acceptance in themselves or others, to a weird slant against Jordan Peterson of all people for promoting a lifestyle he didn't agree with.
@@doodle-oh I hope everyone experiences this video the way you did. This is exactly how I felt reading "Stiffed." The ending is essentially a shrug. A total "idk, men figure your shit out." It frustrated me. So, I brought everyone through what the book taught me and then had to give the ending my own go. I still gave a shrug because what do I know, I'm only one man I don't have all the answers. But that's the biggest point. No ONE MAN should be feeding us answers. Collectively we might be able to figure it out, but I, and JP, have no concrete solution. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I regret including Peterson. He's too much of a hot topic to just include without his own 40 minute evaluation to back up my claims.
@@doodle-oh Also I'm sorry to hear about your little brother. I can't offer any good advice but I will say this. Your empathy and concern for him alone will be tremendously beneficial. You may think, "of course I care, he's my brother!" But that isn't a given and many do not have that. Empathy is powerful.
unrelated but i tihnk its really neat how some americans consume so much slice of life animes and how some japanese people do the same with king of the hill. i think its becasue japan and america are so completely different in ideology yet still have this cultural telephone of capitalism, so i understand how people can spend all their time watching anime, because its so interesting seeing the differences and similarities of two wildly unique and interesting civilizations. i saw a joke on the internet where someone called king of the hill a slice of life anime for american society but honestly thats really what it is, as its a show made to document these common colflicts that arrise in daily american life, just like slice of life anime does with japanesse life.
also i forgot to say i really loved the video and it was very clear and well put together
That is interesting! That's the second time someone's mentioned how the Japanese really enjoy KOTH. I always felt like you'd need to understand so much of our cultural subtleties and yet, apparently not.
@@talkinbout8159 i think thats even the apeal of it, just to see how different peolpe live their life and how societies are different
This channel is great, really hope to see it blow up more soon. It's nice to see an analysis video like this that isn't so reactionary.
For real
Thanks!
Seen this video 3 or 4 times since being posted .. I love that you did this man mad props
This video is so good, it dismantled the war myths like I have never seen before! But men in the 50's were like that indifferent of war, cruelty apparently was part of a father's common set of tools for controlling his family. My grand father was never at war but he was terrible with his kids because that is what he got from his father. Now I see my dad struggling to "understand" his dad while retconning on all the bad stuff my grandfather made to his family, while I have already got to the point of *seeing behind the father figure and into the flawed man with it's grey areas* since my early 20's. Part of what made me love this show is it's portrayal of masculinity and all it's intricacies set by men themselves while being harmed by these.
I completely disagree with the final conclusion, brotherhoods aren't inherently against the stoic individualistic nature the Peterson preaches so I won't knock them. It's not so much that Peterson's view doesn't have it's downsides, but individualism requires it to thrive.
The reason individualism is so important to me is because individualism is the father to liberty, they travel together, without it we don't have America. If I were to rely on brotherhoods first we wouldn't be an individualistic society therefore we will eventually lose more liberties.
As for the strawmen bit: illegal aliens bring with them the cartels and become essentially a serf class to the elites, there's more to it than just 'muh jobs as the strawmen say.
Feminists have railed against the traditional societal structures which while flawed did have a place for men, today's society separates fathers from children and gives them no alternative inherent meaning to said society. So we are left behind as an expendable population. What difference does it make if I died now other than some sadness for a few months within the family, compared to the working father of the 50s whose family heavily depends on his bread winning.
And if I criticize feminists, then I just get lectured about toxic masculinity or sexism or something without actually addressing my issues as they continue stripping away the little tradition that gives me some miniscule meaning.
The deep tie of individualism and liberty is a good point. I would say though, that a brotherhood based on benefit (like I'll watch your back you watch mine), can still maximize freedoms. It only crumbles on a large scale which is why I'm for small, local, brotherhoods.
I think it's possible to criticize feminism respectfully. It just needs to start from an understanding of where women have come from. They are on an upward trajectory from a low place on the totem pole. Men are on a downward trajectory. Neither should have to give up rights/freedoms for the other, so we need cooperation and understanding. Instead of asking, "why don't women have to sign up for the draft?" we should ask "why do men have to sign up for the draft?". Conscription takes away all personal freedom.
Will ture an ape can kick your ass but apes together strong and you don't wanna miss with a group of apes
@L Lawliet Bubba said, "I'm gonna lean up against you, you just lean right back against me. This way, we don't have to sleep with our heads in the mud. You know why we a good partnership, Forrest? 'Cause we be watchin' out for one another. Like brothers and stuff."
That is what it is all about. We all need each other, so we don't have to sleep with our heads in the mud. You get it?
I think this touches something else that's been lost. Localism, how many local organizations, shops, churches, teams, etc. have been lost due to something more centralized taking its place. Intentional or not.
Which has become even worse due to modern mass media. We've gone from that small band of brothers to being marbles just bouncing off each other in some giant bowl. All mashed next to each other but completely unconnected, like strangers in a subway car. And let's face it, local people with strong bonds are going to be able to recognize and figure out how to solve a local problem faster than some national or international organization will. Unless it's something catastrophically huge, then a larger organization would work better.
The problem is that when that catastrophically large disaster happens the larger organization doesn't ever allow local bonds and structures to reforge leaving a bunch of lost individuals unable to reforge those bonds. Which may or may not be intentional or just happen to be the path of least resistance to retaining power.
I was really looking forward to the response to JP's answer, disappointed that it was edited like a meme.
Loved the video, but the jordan peterson comments are objectively fals e. He's never focused on that, he'd says opposite that men ARE emotional but socially culturally by people before can't express it.... please do more research, JP is annoying but for sake of truth you're stating falsehoods. JP mentions importance of fathers and sons.... lovingly and supportive, you didn't even research the clips you used did you? Of course not lol...
For real man, I live like 30km from the dude, I've actually met him in Toronto, like... He's a decent guy and just wants the best from everyone. The media has framed him so badly >_> I mean... I do like the memes tho lmao
This was a really sicc analysis. I think the trauma of war, or just life, and how men have been conditioned to cope with it over the generations is a huge theme in KOTH. TBH, I'm a little wary of some of the framing here and there, but I am not a man, and did not read the book, so carry on good sir.
I LOVE that your conclusion is for emphasizing community and brotherhood. There's so much to chew on in this essay as there is in KOTH.
You just earned yourself a life long sub with this one man. I am a full time game soundtrack writer I'd love to help you with some back ground music in the future man!
Appreciate that! I struggle to find good music that won't get me striked.
I think this video is very well put together. But to call Hank and Bobby's father son relationship "troubled" is something I fundamentally can't agree with, and in my opinion calling their relationship troubled goes entirely against what the show is about.
Hank and Bobby don't see eye to eye, but those differences aren't signs of trouble but rather growing moments for both. In the very first episode Hank puts it best when Bobby worries that Hank is disappointed in him, Hank puts it very simply "I am proud of you because you're my boy."
I think this was very deliberately done so in the first episode to set the bar for the rest of the series: "No matter how much these two don't understand or get one another, they still deeply love and care for one another." I care to say this is the furthest thing from a 'troubled' relationship.
I appreciate the further discourse. I stand by a troubled relationship though. Hank has a limited understanding of what a father should be from his own experience with Cotton. He is consistently disappointed with his son and refuses to understand Bobby will not fit the mold of his own ideal. Further he can be downright cruel, like when he opted for Bobby to live in the doghouse when Bobby developed allergies. Watch the show again through the light of "what if my father did this to me" and it becomes very apparent how terrible Hank can be to Bobby.
@@talkinbout8159 I disagree, a lot of the Episodes about Hank not understanding Bobby end with Hank instead turning around on his initial opinion and standing behind Bobby in how he handled something, but also vice versa. To take an example, the rose-growing episode ends with Hank embracing Bobby's hobby the way Bobby understood it. Hank does so, by giving it a place in his lawn. The show consistently shows that Hank is VERY particular about what is and isn't allouwed on his lawn, and having a place there means it means a lot to Hank or is something Hank can feel respect/admiration for or at the very least he understand that these roses mean a LOT to Bobby and thus is willing to give them a spot on his lawn (as he did with the gnome that one time for Peggy).
Also the matter of the Dog House, in that Episode Bobby himself chooses to make life in the Dog House, Hank doesn't force it upon him. Hank is rarely corporal with Bobby, even in the episode where Bobby STOLE his credit card, Hank sat down with Bobby to have a very realistic and cordial talk about money, and money related accessories. With Bobby the punishment is either grounding or being send to his room.
To say they understand one another, that is fair, but to say they are troubled, is something I consider a step too far. As troubled implies a stark emotional disconnect or unhealthy dynamic between the two. Bobby and Hank display their emotions in different ways, but at the end of the day both of them understand the bond they have for one another and can appreciate one another more for it.
@@edwinvanderhaeghen2221 I understand where you're coming from and those are good points, but we will have to agree to disagree. Despite happy resolutions there are just too many times Hank's 'subtle' disappointment in Bobby shine through. Take the ventriloquist episode for example; Hank does come around but his longing for a more masculine son is just too hurtful during the first 2 acts.
This was incredibly depthful analysis in a way that I don’t typically expect from video essays on King of the Hill. While your first video is a good thesis statement on the show’s overall meaning, this one takes smaller components from the show to illustrate something far, far greater in a way that anyone can understand and agree with. In the written form, this could be academically-published. F•••in outstanding work, brother, best media video essay I’ve watched of all time.
Amazing video! I am blown away at your analysis of these classic, down-to-earth characters! You sum up the generations of our sons, fathers, and grandfathers in a clear, understandable way, and I really learned something about what it means to be a man~
Only possible with such a great show like KOTH! Judge really made such complete characters
Jesus man, a king of the hill video that turned into a very well thought out and knowledgeable spiel about masculinity throughout US history.
Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to find or make brotherhoods, its pretty rare nowadays, because of that the only people reliable in life is God and yourself. It’s true that you can’t solve all your problems on your own but you are responsible for what you do with that
Don't rag on Peterson.
His points about if you feel lost and untethered to take on responsibility do actually work. They tether you to something and they give you an option for direction.
Yeah its not perfect.
But a generation of single mothers didn't do any better for us.
As great as your videos are (and I mean really great), the music choice to go with this and the other KotH video you made is just phenomenal. Great work.
Thanks! I spend a long time searching for just the right songs.
I didn't realise that you've made another video on king of the Hill. I am super excited to watch this
great video!
If the group of 4 were in a dnd party, Bill will definitely be the best healer in the team and that is not shameful, but on the contrary, respectable
KotH is like a comfort blanket I pull over myself whenever I want to relax.
Great channel by the way - I found it today - you deserve many many subs and I'm sure they will explode if the algorithm gives you a nudge! :)
One day Mr Al Gore Ithm will bless me with his touch.
@@talkinbout8159 Haha, I see what you did there ;) I'll keep on likin' and a-commentin' - you deserve more hits than the ManBearPig Hunter ;) x
@@trippymchippy8586 I appreciate that, every bit helps!
Man, this was great. You deserve more views and subscribers
Maybe one day!
Man your contact about king of the hill is thoughtful and really resonates with how I personally feel about the show.
Holy shit what a great video man this is why I watch UA-cam more than netflix
I’ve watched this video so many times and it remains one of my favorite videos
That's such a nice thing to hear!
Thank you for making this video :-) of course when I was little, I didn't like this show :-/ just grown up talking, boring... I just remembered seeing it on T.V with my mom. I just go to my room and watch a person playing with a duckie or something lol. Anyways, love this show and I'm happy to hear your talking about it :-)
26•12•2023: Finished rewatching this video, wow, I love it even more! Sad to see it didn't get a ton of attention, but I love it still! I felt quite emotional around the end part, manily the whole we being intimate when alone. Don't know why it makes me sad, but still wonderful video!
I can’t stand cotton. I think Hank is genuinely a pretty good father. Or rather, he tries his best. And I respect that.
As a leftist it’s probably strange I love King of the Hill. But I’m also a southerner. And I see a lot of what I do like about the south in Hank.
"As a leftist" shut up bro. As a fuckin individual, an american and a human. Nobody cares of those meaningless divisions and groups.
This is a great video.
Self reliance and stoicism I believe are important for the cultivation of healthy masculinity. It has been documented by multiple cultures from Marcus Aurelius, Confucious, to Nichetize. You should act in a way that allows for the most self determination in your life, but should treat others with acceptance when they need assistance. Create the strongest person you can be reliant on.
While I agree with that, it's important to ask how we achieve that. I believe we achieve that through our relationships with others and our utility to our community.
@@talkinbout8159 The missing element of your argument ignores that fundamentally throughout centuries from leaders like Marcus Aurelius to warriors like Miyamoto Musashi is the overall theme of discipline as a tenant. Self discipline has proven to be one of the most effective forms of individual and societal health and wellness between the simple tasks of being able to show up to work on time, eating healthy foods, and getting enough sleep. You make this point against JP but his central meme of "making your bed" isn't a new or outdated lesson, the ideas of discipline has been a lesson for masculinity for centuries.
@@bubblewhip382 But that idea seems less an idea of masculinity and more an idea of functioning in our modern world. Making your bed doesn't make you a man (not to be reductionist, I mean his entire argument). Masculinity is far more than discipline, unless we are to assume women do not have that. Discipline is a good self help book idea, but what makes a man?
@@talkinbout8159 I think you are taking the 60 years of American history as the lens which you view male masculinity. The texts and ideas cited predate all that by centuries and have been aimed at an exclusively male audience as the gender roles and expectations of all cultures have put the expectation that men are to be placed in the most physically and mentally dangerous and life threatening circumstances ahead of the women and children of society, and the roles have demanded a level of physical discipline and obedience necessary for success. You can find this in all cultures throughout time and history between Ancient China, the Pigmys, Ancient Romans, and Native American tribes. It's been a constant throughout. It's only been very recently throughout human history that the western world in particular has had the luxury of defying gender roles because the responsibilities no longer directly correlate to survival of your family.
The idea of masculinity is a social construct, and when you remove the physiological requirements of the historically male gender roles, there isn't a reason why women couldn't adopt those traits because of the roles they acquired. But the historical definition of masculinity was always rooted in the needs of the likely jobs that men were asked to do for centuries.
@@bubblewhip382 I really like this comment. My question is though, that because modern society has lessened the stress of "survival" or what I would call "provider" role, do you think it is time for our definition of masculinity to change in order to advance society? Yes, for a millenia masculinity was defined by a worrior complex, but because we are no longer constantly in a state of survival stress I feel that many men (including myself) will never reach that fulfillment of masculinity, so in order to allow men to reach said fulfillment isnt time to change the definition?
You deserve more subs and views for the work you put into these amazing videos man
Thank you
This was a great video. You did the work and it shows.
Your channel is amazing your deep dives are mind opening. 💯
I listened to this while I was in the shower and I almost forgot it was about king of the hill lmao
truly fantastic video essay. i learned a lot both about a show i truly love, and masculinity over recent (and historical) generations. i may just have to check out susan faludi's book! thank you for your incredible commentary.
thank YOU!
Wow amazing video. What a great way to make light of a larger issue. Genuinely this video said what I was thinking
I really wished you could've said something about John Redcorn, too. Amazing insightful vid nonetheless. Awesome!
Genuinely one of the best video essays I've seen.
super underrated video!! just started watching the show and was rly curious what other people had to say; i was not disappointed!
What an insightful video; great job! I would love to see a follow-up on this, further analyzing other male characters in the series such as Kahn, Buck Strickland, or Lucky, and how they relate to Hank's ideas of masculinity.
4:44 Goddamn, look at those grizzled, pained and angry expressions. This is a victory phot, and there's not a single smile in the score. The pacific campaign was no fucking joke. These men look like they've had all the belief of human goodness sucked out of them from the war and its atrocities. Can't even imagine what it must've been like for them...
It’s my mission to look at all of your videos (by the way, I looked at this).
I approve of this mission.
I love this video so much
It unpacks the psychology that so many young people now don't understand
Genuinely, thank you
man this video deserves so much more clout 😭
Bill's 70th birthday is coming up. 🤯 🎉
such a nuanced articulate commentry , works so well, want to buy the book myself now! Interesting deep dive into the contemporary
I grew up with one grandfather dead and the other in Mexican prison for murder. My dad is the classic "machismo" Mexican and i grew up loving video games anime and manga. I still dont know what being a man really means to my dad its following a religion being married and having a family. My father cared about appearances while i myself gave no fucks about it. I was always told to stop doing something because of how it made me look stop reading that people are gonna think your gay stop doing that people are gonna think you are retarded etc etc.
In middle school my mother started losing her shit because of depression anxiety and her ocd which again appearances matter so all i ever heard was your mom is crazy she can't take care of herself. Her being knocked out because of meds and my dad in a diff city for work was forced to be the man at 13. I would do yard work i would do random ass home repairs i would be the one to board up the house for hurricanes. Family problems and other issues and by the time i was 16 i knew i was dealing with depression but i was fucking scared because of how my dad acted when my mom was at her worst i was fucking scared i was going to be treated like i was just sick it was not intil i had enough of feeling alone and empty and almost putting a bullet in my head that i got help.
I still don't know what being a man is supposed to mean im just trying to live my life finding what makes me wanna keep moving forward.
For many of us that's all life is. Finding little scraps of motivation and joy that keep propelling us forward, and hope that one day we won't need to do that anymore.
Amazing channel, really surprised that considering the quality you haven't blown up yet.
All in good time, or never, either or.
You've used some of my favorite songs on your two KOTH videos. Really appreciate these breakdowns!
Man me too, hard avoiding the censors tho
@@talkinbout8159 does the supposed "30 seconds allowed at a time" still check out?
@@bmm1295 Nope, my first video is seized, and can be for even short snippets. I got creative with this one and used karaoke tracks.
@@talkinbout8159 that sucks majorly, sorry to hear that, man. Whether you get money from that video or not, luckily it brought me to your channel. You'll be getting more views from me in the future. I appreciated your perspective and your reply.
@@bmm1295 Thanks, it doesn't bother me much, I just don't like that someone IS making money off of it (Patsy Cline's estate). Even before it was seized it wasn't monetized. This is a hobby for me now. Maybe one day I can make it a job but I just like making them.
Truly amazing video about my favourite show good job I’m subscribed and look forward to seeing all your other videos .
This is an amazing video, thank you for making it!
Thank YOU
This is great review of the changing norms of masculinity in modern American history through KOTH. However, I think you strawman Peterson a bit by seemingly equating what he says to Ayn Rand style individualism. He's not against collective action outright. He simply believes that collective action by people who do not understand how to improve themselves will not know how to improve society, leading to bad outcomes. You don't need to be perfect to take collective action, but you need to understand how to make progress with yourself before you can understand how to make progress with society since after all, society is made up of individuals. But in any case I'm glad to still find people talking about KOTH after all these years. Still consider it among the best art of all time.
Also btw, Peterson often pauses a lot when asked questions because he spends time thinking before he gives his answer
It's an artificial pause, I just found the editing funny.
I understand where Peterson's coming from, the video is very reductive I know. I just disagree and I'm happy we can discuss it further. I think we improve ourselves, understand ourselves, BY improving our community/society.
Imagine simping for Jordan Pedoson.
@@tylerthompson3075 I dislike Peterson and think he willfully evades some subjects and talking points, but the one you're replying to isn't wrong when they say that Peterson doesn't exactly ascribe to the Ayn Rand school of thought.
jordan peterson is straight up insane. lol that guy is a joke to anybody who isnt part of his cult.
Also I love all of the George strait background music. This vid is banging overall.
Watched this 3x back to back great work
This goes to show just how above and beyond Peggy will go to keep the peace. It's fairly beautiful.
Peggy was toxic femininity incarnate though, she's the worst character in the entire show because of how desperate she is to sabotage other people if they're better than her. She has a massive ego and puts others down for showing her that maybe she's not as smart as she thinks she is, even physically harming a student who verifiably knew better spanish than her just because she was intimidated by him. Peggy is a terrible character and if she were a man everyone would hate her even more.
This was a unexpectedly absolutely amazing
45:02 I think something positive to take away from JP and his words of self reflection, is that we all need it to truly understand what kind of a brotherhood we belong in, else we become Bill, depressed because we haven't respected or understood ourselves at our base level and feel forever lost due to the lack of understanding. While I agree that it is very easy to get caught up in that idea of isolation and kind of give yourself psychosis, you're going to understand sooner or later (like Dill did) that loneliness as a alternative to loneliness isn't the answer. Bill just had to come back to that group because they kept getting renewed for more seasons. I love the crap out of this video, but as someone who understands these ideas of brotherhood you're talking about, JP definitely helped me defend myself mentally from the constant psychological warfare we experience today. It's hard for a lot of male adjacent's to stand up for themselves the right way, so that they can be understood and heard, instead of needlessly violent, or carelessly cruel, JP has got the right idea about standing up for yourself and admitting fault when it's realized. I think it's great to call people out when you see them doing something you don't think is so cool, I just think that not everything about that isolation is BS, a lot of folks don't understand their own minds and JP is saying you're the only one who can map it out for yourself, which is so true. Great video! 9.5 out of 10! You speak that true true, keep it up!!
Good points! I really rushed over the JP segment. I'm revisiting it in more detail and from a different angle since this clashed with a lot of people's personal experience.
also this video can relate to your sad girl video, this video got me thinking about how sad girls on tik tok could be in the same position as hank, where they grew up with stories of women and minorities (esp. people with mental illnesses/neurodivergent) being killed, discriminated against, and having all theese horrible things happening to them yet still holding strong and fighting back. they could be using the stories as their john wayne, their war stories and comradery that they dont have anymore today, and could be saying that the world is against them for all of their mental illnesses or whatever. idk the video just got me thinking
@@talkinbout8159 100%
King of the Hill is one of those shows I enjoyed as a kid and love it more now as an adult. It’s an incredible show. Keep up the great work man!
I feel like another-more meta-point that could be made about Hank having to “masculinize” his life is his role in the show himself. Hank often plays the straight man who has to keep people in line in the show, much like the role characters like Marge Simpson and Louis Griffin play in other adult cartoons. Meanwhile Peggy plays the more silly and more narcissistic role like Homer Simpson
“My mind relates everything to this show” I feel that fam
great video i love how you went through the different generation and unboxing them.
Fascinating application & a weirdly perfect subject for this...
I'm not a guy nor american, but this was a fantastic and interesting video. It really opened my eyes, amazing job!
This was an amazing video.
yessss been hoping you'd do another koth video
you forgot Bill is a excellent cook. but tries not to out shine Hank ( he shared a family recipe with Bobby under the condition bobby tells no one)
I did! Good point.
This channel needs more subscriptions
@@SirBlackReeds 🤔
I liked the video. Only issue was at the end: "outdated masculinity". Is oxygen outdated? Maybe sex? How about compassion? No dice amigo.
Masculinity is a cultural construct. This is why its normal for males to hold hands in India but not elsewhere. Currently we are in a cultural debate about saying sex/gender/masculinity/etc, and it gets confusing, but social constructs are very different than the effects of sex hormones. Nature vs nurture. We have full control over the nurture part.
@@talkinbout8159 Come on. If masculinity is a 'cultural construct' then why does basically every culture have the idea of the 'protective and providing man'? Even developing separately? Italian men kiss on the cheek but at their core they are just as manly as the Japanese or Arabs. How do you explain that one?
@@jonj1163 We are saying the same thing, I think we're just talking past each other. Culturally men are different, what is ok for Italians to do isn't for Japanese. However, every man goes through adolescence. They all get all flood of hormones that grant certain base desires. So that's culture vs biology. This video is talking about culture. The things, like kissing men on the cheek, that we decide are acceptable or unacceptable.
@@talkinbout8159 you're saying that masculinity is not a cultural thing, its a universal thing. It has nothing to do with what culture wants it to be, but has every thing to do with what we all know in our hearts for it to be.
To protect and to serve the family and country. It has always been that way and will always be that way, despite what women think they can be, they will never be. It is what has kept our species alive for millions of years through our evolution.
Has never had anything to do with culture. Kissing your fellow man on the cheek was common for thousands of years yet you would be forced to throw your life down for your country in order to protect your family even if it was a losing battle.