Not sure about the states but here in England you are always told "it is your responsibility to ensure that you pass another rider safely do not assume they will stay on a racing or fast line. Allow them room and always assume they will alter a line going into a corner. Remember you are on a track day and not in a race"
@@CubanRiderlove you to death, Cuban-but if you zoom in prior to the crash you can see that it’s pointed at a 45* angle to the tarmac-must’ve been there for show, definitely proved to be worthless the way it was setup.
Very interesting comments. Guy in front is at fault, No, guy following is at fault. "Before you decide to pass a guy on a track day, you better know how he rides! The lead guy may have been in the wrong, but the guy following should be paying closer attention to how the guy in front of him is riding. There are so many varieties of guys/ gals riding on track days- be Aware!!!!!"
BOTH riders at fault IMO... Guy in front looked like he was slowing down like he was planning to get off the track (not sure why between 8-9 @ Jennings) & NOT HOLDING A LINE! Maybe over his head in advance group. Guy behind should have seen this & waited to pass, that is the tightest place on the whole track to pass... or hot pitted & waited until it was safe again.
@@sheldonabbey555 I would say it’s more like both riders did something WRONG, but the passing rider is at FAULT. Guy in front was riding sloppy, off pace, and off line. All correct. However, the passing bike was the one who could see what the slower guy was doing. He was completely in control of the situation and picked to pass at that moment instead of waiting for a better place to pass.
This was insane....Hope the rider is ok... We are always responsible for the rider ahead of us so we must anticipate all mistakes and tendencies ....The rider ahead that he ran into was obviously coming off pace heavily so patience to pass him was the key he made up alot of the time in 2 laps wait wait its a TRACKDAY ...Not a RACEDAY...But nonetheless hope they walked away from this lesson learned for all of us. Great video great display of patience rider recording sorry you had to see this accident.
You are responsible for doing everything you can to make a clean pass on the person in front of you but you aren't responsible for their reckless riding. Sure for self preservation you need be extra careful around people you come up on until you have an understand of whether they know what they are doing or not. The rider being passed is the one who ran into passing rider (who was correctly holding his line) by engaging in a completely unnecessary (for the speed he was going) "swoop way left to go right" maneuver. This is why track days suck.. because of morons with zero concern for others behind them who might be trying to pass in a corner. If you blow your corner down make crazy swoops to get back on the correct line! Hold your damn line!
@@jamesmullen75dude who caused the crash was definitely the average ‘wide swooper’ in intermediate and the reason I hate the group-as the overtaking/faster rider…is 15’ on the outside of a corner not a wide enough berth to pass a slower rider? Apparently not when the slower rider decides to swing out 25’ for absolutely no reason! 🎉🎉
Yes that was crazy, The bike came so close to hitting him 3 different times, he came so close to having a broken neck or other serious injury and most likely dying from the injury, the bike is around 400lbs by it self but the way it catapulted it would have been several times that weight in force.. He was SOOOO!!!! LUCKY, though it might not seem that way until he saw this video perhaps!😱
Just an hazard of track day. Responsibility of the trailing rider to make a safe pass, preferably on the straight. Everyone has to learn the right lines. The lead rider doesn’t possess the skills to look behind and still make the turn. Nasty crash, hope the rider was okay.
Rookie track day rider here but I learned a lot watching this and one other crash video, BE SMOOTH AND PREDICTABLE the guy behind you is relying on you. At both tracks that I took a rookie session at the instructors stressed "Don't look behind you, the rider behind is responsible for you, you are responsible for your bike and the riders ahead". Another thing I noticed; The slower rider pulled away on the straights and that splits into two issues, first where was courtesy? When faster riders or drivers are on my rear wheel through the turns I give them a pass on the next straight, even if my car is faster, because the last thing I want to do is frustrate them into trying a dicey pass in a turn (plus I learn more watching better rider/drivers by following them then from holding them up). Second is the whole conversation of novices on liter bikes or in fast cars. From his riding skill maybe the lead guy maybe should have been on a 400. Maybe that would have him concentrating more on his skills, even making it easier to develop skills with lower entry speeds, and would keep him from pulling away on the straights then holding everyone up in the turns (now I am making a lot of assumptions about that lead rider and I apologize if I'm way off). Nothing is more frustrating than the rookie driver showing up for a track day in his C8 Corvette, thundering down the straights at 150, leading a parade through all of the turns and then commenting to the instructors "I keep getting caught by Miata's", as if it's their fault. And nothing is scarier than a rookie rider, who might even be a beginner motorcyclist, showing up on a BMW S1000RR.
The bottom line is that none of this would have happened if the guy getting passed wouldn't have swerved left to go right. He wasn't carrying enough speed to have any business on the racing line.. the same line the guy doing the passing was actually on. You nailed it at first when you said "be predictable"
First things first @petezny4343 asking about courtesy. What you’re saying to do is the opposite of what they stress. That’s not being predictable. You’re thinking you’re being helpful but no one here is psychic. The guy behind you doesn’t know you’re being helpful. He’s just planning to pass you. He could be late apexing and preparing to cross your line and blow out your inside on the way out of the corner, but you’re thinking you’re gonna be helpful and get off the race line, so you exit the corner and go to the inside to be out of the way but now you’re actually in the way of someone going WAY faster and you just caused a big wreck just like the one in this video. Be predictable. Ride your own ride and worry about yourself and what’s in front of you. The second guy who said the slow bike has no business being on the race line, what the fuck? That’s here he SHOULD be. Just because he’s going slower than you does not mean he shouldn’t be on the race line. Should he have been more predictable and not swoop around outside the corners? Yes. That’s a mistake on its own. However, we are all human. We make mistakes. The person behind has 1 job when it comes to passing. That is to pass safely. The guy who crashed rushed a pass in a shitty place to pass on this track. It was all his mistake. He should have waited for corner exit and blew up his inside on the way out. Then he could be bitching in pits about the slow bike being all over the track instead of being checked out at medical.
I can tell this was not expert and intermediate - you got to zip pass fast and do it in a safe spot with buffer. The front rider foreshadowed his tendency to drift back out at the 3:53 mark at turn 7. The rider behind has to anticipate when the rider in front is all over the place / lower skill level and take the appropriate action when possible because the rider in front can't see behind himself.
This looks like an intermediate group. Have to pass carefully around some people. This is one big reason I sometimes ask to get bumped to expert so long as there aren’t too many pro’s out.
Looks like track beginners to me. Above their heads to begin with bikes that big. You think they are bad on the track, I guarantee they are all pretty bad on the street.
Wow. Seems like an unnecessary swerve but it is the responsibility of the passer to get by safely. I hope he is okay, the bike might not be much good after that!
It's also the responsibility of the person being passed to not ride like a dip shit, especially on corner entry. He had no business swerving out to the racing line in this scenario.
Strangely enough, I thought the guy who crashed had the best lines out of the three of them having caught the one who cleared off initially. Been there, done that.
Man...sobering stuff. You guys were solid! Probably still best to avoid passing riders at track days if at all possible. I really hope that rider is OK but that was a bad one. Slowmo the impact: did the collision his front brake causing the stoppie? It's amazing that the bike didn't land on him. It was very close. I hate seeing this right at the start of the season!!!!
Unless the slower rider decides to swing 25’ off the racing line for no reason, nor benefit to anyone but the local motorcycle dealership nearest to the guy who was passing you. 🎉🎉
Yeah, really a squid move when the dude blew that corner and cut back into the racing line. However, I would hope I might recognize what a beginning he is and pass him with EXTREME caution!😮
This is a reminder to NEVER pass when the lines are converging. The lead rider went wide in the previous turn and was still turning back towards the outside of the track to set up for the next turn when the trailing rider tried to pass. Bad crash I hope he is OK.
Wow...what a scary crash! I hope the guy is ok. The guy in the back was clearly able to hold his line & the guy in the front was likely swooping every corner. This is why intermediate group is so unpredictable...so many different skill levels.
Front rider needs to be bumped down to novice for a few TDs. If you enter a corner inside the race line, you commit to it. Swooping back onto the race line literally adds more time to your lap and makes you dangerously unpredictable.
I've only done 3 track days (one each in 2009, 2010,and 2011) and I need to add in fairness that the bikes were provided by the manufacturer and the track days were very inexpensive. I signed up for intermediate all 3 times. I have to admit that when I ran with the intermediate group the first time that I felt like I was trapped by slower traffic in every session. I'm a street rider and not a racer. But I watch racing and I know the racing lines at the track I was on and stayed on them. In 2011 I was told that I need to move to the advanced group and that really fucked me up. There were still slow people but there were also REALLY fast people. I got stuck behind 2 guys for 3 laps that had absolutely no corner speed but they could twist the throttle on anything straight. I finally said "fuck it" and passed them both on the outside and, as I approached the next corner, I wondered if I had just made a bad life decision and would wad myself up in the gravel trap outside of turn 1. The bike was WAY better than my street ride and the track was WAY better than a road. That being said- the slow dude in this video made such a fucked up move that makes absolutely zero sense. It wasn't going to improve his corner entrance because he ran so wide AND he didn't run wide because he was going too fast.
Generally speaking a 1:28 lap time is A group at Jennings, I believe 1:30 is the "recommended" cut off. This is the 4th session of the day. If the lead rider is in the wrong group track marshal/race director should have done something by now. I am not a very fast or necessarily a very good rider, but I can tell from turn 1 that you better be careful with this guy. His body positioning is a dead give away that you cannot trust him. Turn 7 just confirms that and turn 8 is an instant replay. TOTALLY PREDICTABLE!!! It's a TRACKDAY why risk it.
I feel you could chance it up the inside more and brake a bit later.. and possibly accelerate harder on corner exit, get round the outside so you got inside line for the next corner..
The dude in the blue and white Suzuki leathers has no idea what the fuck the race line is LMFAO. Dude is riding like he's the only one on track. I do believe the rider behind is responsible for the accident... But good god, the rider in front is delusional on a bike.
He learned a valuable lesson that day, all of his own making. Hope he's ok and keeps doing what he clearly enjoys, We all make mistakes, just learn from them.
This almost happened to me twice during my first track day where I was on a Ducati 748 and many other riders were on Kawasaki 400s. I would try to pass on the outside after coming out of a turn but the person ahead jumped in front of me to get back onto the racing line. I sure thanked my brakes that day!
A group, no CR’s or “bumps” at Jennings though. You can just elect to be A group. The front rider doesn’t belong, regardless of the risky pass maneuver. Wouldn’t have been risky with all A group level riders out there in my opinion
@@33brianmorris Yeah the big guy looked about as "beginner" as you get. That's ridiculous. Completely unrelated but what is the data/overlay setup you are using? Would really love to see all that.
I crashed entering a corner when another rider cut across me. I could claim it was his fault but no, it was entirely mine for not being prepared for that. Track riding isn't racing.
this is why im weary of passing ive had close calls like this bc i predicted a line the guy was going to follow and was wrong and had all the steam built up for the pass. closest pass ive had i about 6 inches from bar to bar and i just powered through it because the speed difference was so great if i would have tried to slow and let him over we would have collided im almost certain. ever since that pass ive been alot more patient on the track
Completely unpredictable squid move; nobody rides like that? That's why he caught the guy; he was so dang slow. He really only had the one previous turn to see the guy was (a douche) out of control. It's like at work where you either don't work with people who don't know what they're doing, or you're extremely careful they don't get you killed. I guess same goes for amateur track day. What an incredible bummer.
@@the_rush_to_nothing Incorrect. The guy passing was on the proper racing line because he was actually carrying some speed. The guy getting passed swerved left to go right and for no good reason as his speed 100% did not justify his erratic line selection. The proper racing line is never to first eratically swerve in the opposite direction of the corner and then enter the corner.
@@jamesmullen75 incorrect. Person in the front has the right of way, not his responsibility to cater to those behind him. Also, he was on the racing line, and because he’s in front, and on the racing line, it’s the due diligence of the guy behind to make sure he doesn’t put himself in a bad position, which he did.
@@the_rush_to_nothing Nope. If he was on the racing line to begin with he wouldn't have had to erratically and abruptly swerve left to lean right. He blew the previous corner and tried to correct for it. He did this for no reason at all. He wasn't even going fast enough to justify being on the fast line. The person in front doesn't have the right to ride like an irresponsible asshole. He has an obligation to ride in a predictable manner. The pass was going to be clean right up until the guy in front decided to ride like an idiot. You can say the person doing the passing must assume the risk that the person they are passing might decide to ride like an idiot at the last second and I would agree with you on that but the situation in this video is more due to the shortcomings of the skill level of the rider being passed than the one doing the passing.
@@jamesmullen75 “fast line” = racing line. If he’s in the front, doesn’t matter how fast he’s riding, he has the right of way. Again, not his obligation to cater to those behind him. No, he’s not weaving like an asshole, he’s following the racing line. The guy behind got out of the racing line at the straight in hopes to pass on the racing line at the turn, which he was assuming the guy in front wouldn’t take, bad choice, because the guy in the front did. Guy in the front did nothing wrong.
Nah, this was a clear violation of line choice etiquette by the rider in front. This is said at the morning riders meeting at tracks across the country.
Hold your line. Dont run deep in corners, might be someone passing on inside,leave room. You cant use the whole track,theres always someone faster coming up behind you,fast.
You never look behind you on the track. Less than safe by the lead Rider... But the responsibility of making a safe pass falls on the trailing Rider. Lead Rider isnt off the seat mid corner, low corner speed, and blew the apex. Gotta make that read and setup the pass better
@@atalbrittonIf you won't take my word for it ask a marshal at the next track day brief if you should leave the racing line then jump back on it without checking.
This is the most incorrect statement I have ever read. The passer is 100% at fault here. The line was his to choose. Sure it wasn't the best line... but there was dozens of opportunities to pass that guy on the inside.
It’s a track day, not a race. Onus is on the rider overtaking to pass safely. It was obvious the other rider was going to switch back across to the left to enter the next corner.
considering it was in A group, i'd say that the lead rider is a "fault", more so for being in the wrong group. his corner speed is B group at best. however the passing bike really should have been more to the left (on the far left edge of the track) when making the pass, if he was, it all likely would have went to plan
You can see the guy swoop between turn 6 and 7 as well, and that's a longer faster straight to pass than between 8-9. 100% passer's fault. Easily could've wait until 11-13 for the easier pass. I've seen this happen before at this exact spot in intermediate a few years back. Luckily they bumped and both riders rode off into the grass and no one went down. I think passer panicked and grab a big old handful of brake into an endo.
had my first ever track day in novice, been doing street only on my '10 s1k and 4:05 is what almost happened to me. slow as fuck rider taking the racing line when they could just stay in the same slow ass line they were doing.
Lead guy drifted to the left. I’m assuming to square up the turn as rider in the rear was trying to pass, it’s a track day not a race, riders need to understand. These guys are not professionals and sometimes drift way off the race line, that look like a bad crash. I hope that guy is OK.
It was a completely predictable move on the first rider, second guy has the responsibility to understand what is happening in front of him, everyone blows a turn and gets back in the race/track line, it’s a track day not a race, completely avoidable
Passing rider was at fault 100%. It is always the passer to ensure the line is clear and the pass is safe. Over rode his bike and wasn’t using his better judgement. The front rider might have been in the wrong group. But still the liability and fault is on the passing rider.
I love people trying to learn and nail the "perfect line" but if you're not at race pace stay off the race line. You made a mistake coming out of the corner, great, take this as an opportunity to experiment with corner entry from a tighter arc. Genuine racing means you take whatever line is available and it's definitely not the "race line" most of the time. Practice and track days aren't for aggressive passing but jesus christ you cant shoot across the track to get back onto what you consider the "race line". I was in a big group of guys learning a track I was very familiar with during a practice day, and I cut inside to take a hard drive out of the corner past a guy on a much slower bike and all of a sudden he's flying across the track from the outside to set up for the next corner. I only barely made it past him because of my hard acceleration, but it was elbows and knees touching. And since I was in a fairly large pack I wasnt going to do crazy swerves to avoid the guy. I did what was necessary and knew I had the speed to get past him. If i were any slower it may have been contact on my front wheel.
These comments are wild, people saying the dude in front at fault 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ you’re on a track there are lines they teach you to ride. Oh boy in the middle wasn’t riding those line, he actually was holding the guy up on the naked bike. Good riders would have known the guy in the front needs caution going around his lean angle isn’t the best. Yeah cornering skills must stink to think dude in the front was at fault.
I hope BOTH riders are okay. That was an unintentional event that "could have been" a lot worse. Weather on the track, on street, or on a dirt road, this "sport", is dangerous!! Ride with confidence AND, make your decisions with some care for others. That's what I do. I ride STREET. I absolutely advise to KEEP YOUR MIRRORS ON!, and use those mirrors as if your life depends on it!!. But some riders can't WAIT to pull um OFF 😞. ON TRACK, NO mirrors allowed right? You better factor that fact IN, when you approach a rider, with intent to pass his ass. DON'T be so trusting and/or assuming, fcol. Be a calculating tactician on that TRACK. -🍀
Track is not very challenging, and none of these guys have their bikes properly set up. Worse, is their lines are pretty terrible. Certainly a lesson to learn, but you are certainly responsible for yourself. It’s important to know how others react on the street. More so on the track. All three are really not that experienced. Sometimes it is best to find some open asphalt a way from others. Riding in a somewhat controlled environment like a track may be safer, but you have to take things seriously, and know the risks. Yes, riding folks you know and where their lines are certainly helps at speed, but you are running your own race. Just watching these knuckleheads, just about every line and braking points were different. Not that smooth, and again these noob’s lines were pretty god awful. You wouldn’t even really want to ride together on a public road with this group. I may no longer race, but I work on my lines every single day with whatever I drive.
Someone said this is a prime example for a brake guard?? WTf, this is a great example of not paying attention, trying to do to much, horrible mistake on his part, thankfully the first rider wasn’t injured due the negligence of the second idiot
Not sure about the states but here in England you are always told "it is your responsibility to ensure that you pass another rider safely do not assume they will stay on a racing or fast line. Allow them room and always assume they will alter a line going into a corner. Remember you are on a track day and not in a race"
Bingo.
@@Gurn_Blanstondon’t assume you know the line of the guy monkey hanging off the wrong side of the bike 🎉🎉
@@VState60 lol don't even think I saw the monkey hanging off
Same in the States.
Same in the states. Hopefully that's a universal assessment.
This is a prime example of why a brake lever guard is needed.
Thought the same thing, but when you pause the video at the right moment you can see that he actually has one on the bike.
If you look closely, you'll see it has one.
I think it is possible that the front wheel spokes got into the left rearset and it momentarily stopped the wheel.
@@CubanRiderlove you to death, Cuban-but if you zoom in prior to the crash you can see that it’s pointed at a 45* angle to the tarmac-must’ve been there for show, definitely proved to be worthless the way it was setup.
Very interesting comments. Guy in front is at fault, No, guy following is at fault. "Before you decide to pass a guy on a track day, you better know how he rides! The lead guy may have been in the wrong, but the guy following should be paying closer attention to how the guy in front of him is riding. There are so many varieties of guys/ gals riding on track days- be Aware!!!!!"
I agree
Agreed, but that still doesn't absolve the guy getting passed from all responsibility in this scenario.
BOTH riders at fault IMO... Guy in front looked like he was slowing down like he was planning to get off the track (not sure why between 8-9 @ Jennings) & NOT HOLDING A LINE! Maybe over his head in advance group. Guy behind should have seen this & waited to pass, that is the tightest place on the whole track to pass... or hot pitted & waited until it was safe again.
@@sheldonabbey555 I would say it’s more like both riders did something WRONG, but the passing rider is at FAULT. Guy in front was riding sloppy, off pace, and off line. All correct. However, the passing bike was the one who could see what the slower guy was doing. He was completely in control of the situation and picked to pass at that moment instead of waiting for a better place to pass.
Agree
This was insane....Hope the rider is ok... We are always responsible for the rider ahead of us so we must anticipate all mistakes and tendencies ....The rider ahead that he ran into was obviously coming off pace heavily so patience to pass him was the key he made up alot of the time in 2 laps wait wait its a TRACKDAY ...Not a RACEDAY...But nonetheless hope they walked away from this lesson learned for all of us. Great video great display of patience rider recording sorry you had to see this accident.
You are responsible for doing everything you can to make a clean pass on the person in front of you but you aren't responsible for their reckless riding. Sure for self preservation you need be extra careful around people you come up on until you have an understand of whether they know what they are doing or not. The rider being passed is the one who ran into passing rider (who was correctly holding his line) by engaging in a completely unnecessary (for the speed he was going) "swoop way left to go right" maneuver. This is why track days suck.. because of morons with zero concern for others behind them who might be trying to pass in a corner. If you blow your corner down make crazy swoops to get back on the correct line! Hold your damn line!
@@jamesmullen75dude who caused the crash was definitely the average ‘wide swooper’ in intermediate and the reason I hate the group-as the overtaking/faster rider…is 15’ on the outside of a corner not a wide enough berth to pass a slower rider? Apparently not when the slower rider decides to swing out 25’ for absolutely no reason! 🎉🎉
The bike almost landed on his neck! Scary stuff.
Yes that was crazy, The bike came so close to hitting him 3 different times, he came so close to having a broken neck or other serious injury and most likely dying from the injury, the bike is around 400lbs by it self but the way it catapulted it would have been several times that weight in force.. He was SOOOO!!!! LUCKY, though it might not seem that way until he saw this video perhaps!😱
Hey mate! Would it be okay to use it in compilation? Full credited ofc!
No problem
@@33brianmorris thanks mate
Just an hazard of track day.
Responsibility of the trailing rider to make a safe pass, preferably on the straight.
Everyone has to learn the right lines.
The lead rider doesn’t possess the skills to look behind and still make the turn.
Nasty crash, hope the rider was okay.
or a block pass on the inside so the rider being passed sees him...
@@js290yes…please stuff shitty riders in the slowest corners rather than going around the outside 20’ away 😳🤔🤔
Rookie track day rider here but I learned a lot watching this and one other crash video, BE SMOOTH AND PREDICTABLE the guy behind you is relying on you. At both tracks that I took a rookie session at the instructors stressed "Don't look behind you, the rider behind is responsible for you, you are responsible for your bike and the riders ahead". Another thing I noticed; The slower rider pulled away on the straights and that splits into two issues, first where was courtesy? When faster riders or drivers are on my rear wheel through the turns I give them a pass on the next straight, even if my car is faster, because the last thing I want to do is frustrate them into trying a dicey pass in a turn (plus I learn more watching better rider/drivers by following them then from holding them up). Second is the whole conversation of novices on liter bikes or in fast cars. From his riding skill maybe the lead guy maybe should have been on a 400. Maybe that would have him concentrating more on his skills, even making it easier to develop skills with lower entry speeds, and would keep him from pulling away on the straights then holding everyone up in the turns (now I am making a lot of assumptions about that lead rider and I apologize if I'm way off). Nothing is more frustrating than the rookie driver showing up for a track day in his C8 Corvette, thundering down the straights at 150, leading a parade through all of the turns and then commenting to the instructors "I keep getting caught by Miata's", as if it's their fault. And nothing is scarier than a rookie rider, who might even be a beginner motorcyclist, showing up on a BMW S1000RR.
The bottom line is that none of this would have happened if the guy getting passed wouldn't have swerved left to go right. He wasn't carrying enough speed to have any business on the racing line.. the same line the guy doing the passing was actually on. You nailed it at first when you said "be predictable"
@@jamesmullen75well put, gentlemen! 🎉🎉
First things first @petezny4343 asking about courtesy. What you’re saying to do is the opposite of what they stress. That’s not being predictable. You’re thinking you’re being helpful but no one here is psychic. The guy behind you doesn’t know you’re being helpful. He’s just planning to pass you. He could be late apexing and preparing to cross your line and blow out your inside on the way out of the corner, but you’re thinking you’re gonna be helpful and get off the race line, so you exit the corner and go to the inside to be out of the way but now you’re actually in the way of someone going WAY faster and you just caused a big wreck just like the one in this video. Be predictable. Ride your own ride and worry about yourself and what’s in front of you.
The second guy who said the slow bike has no business being on the race line, what the fuck? That’s here he SHOULD be. Just because he’s going slower than you does not mean he shouldn’t be on the race line. Should he have been more predictable and not swoop around outside the corners? Yes. That’s a mistake on its own. However, we are all human. We make mistakes. The person behind has 1 job when it comes to passing. That is to pass safely. The guy who crashed rushed a pass in a shitty place to pass on this track. It was all his mistake. He should have waited for corner exit and blew up his inside on the way out. Then he could be bitching in pits about the slow bike being all over the track instead of being checked out at medical.
I can tell this was not expert and intermediate - you got to zip pass fast and do it in a safe spot with buffer. The front rider foreshadowed his tendency to drift back out at the 3:53 mark at turn 7. The rider behind has to anticipate when the rider in front is all over the place / lower skill level and take the appropriate action when possible because the rider in front can't see behind himself.
The guy in front gave many warnings that he runs out wide, from inside to the outside. He was predictable IMO.
This looks like an intermediate group. Have to pass carefully around some people. This is one big reason I sometimes ask to get bumped to expert so long as there aren’t too many pro’s out.
That guy's line is way too shaky for an expert group. He'd be the one causing a wreck instead.
Looks like track beginners to me. Above their heads to begin with bikes that big. You think they are bad on the track, I guarantee they are all pretty bad on the street.
@@luvyesmusici4886tell me you’ve never been on a race track without telling me you’ve never been on a racetrack…😂😂
Wow. Seems like an unnecessary swerve but it is the responsibility of the passer to get by safely. I hope he is okay, the bike might not be much good after that!
It's also the responsibility of the person being passed to not ride like a dip shit, especially on corner entry. He had no business swerving out to the racing line in this scenario.
@@jamesmullen75 I agree .
Strangely enough, I thought the guy who crashed had the best lines out of the three of them having caught the one who cleared off initially. Been there, done that.
Its not the responsibility of the front rider to know what's going on behind him, guy behind needs to be more careful with the overtakes.
Man...sobering stuff. You guys were solid! Probably still best to avoid passing riders at track days if at all possible. I really hope that rider is OK but that was a bad one. Slowmo the impact: did the collision his front brake causing the stoppie? It's amazing that the bike didn't land on him. It was very close. I hate seeing this right at the start of the season!!!!
Number one racing rule across all genres: Passer is responsible to make the pass safe...not the passee
Unless the slower rider decides to swing 25’ off the racing line for no reason, nor benefit to anyone but the local motorcycle dealership nearest to the guy who was passing you. 🎉🎉
I will only dignifiy this comment with a Yeah.....I can't even.....#IYKYK
Yeah, really a squid move when the dude blew that corner and cut back into the racing line. However, I would hope I might recognize what a beginning he is and pass him with EXTREME caution!😮
That guy was so swoopy, but at track days best bet is to pass when the other rider is moving away from you.
This is a reminder to NEVER pass when the lines are converging. The lead rider went wide in the previous turn and was still turning back towards the outside of the track to set up for the next turn when the trailing rider tried to pass. Bad crash I hope he is OK.
4:05 👍🏻
Turn 9 inside...always.
Agreed. The pass is always to outdrive him out of 8 and show a wheel into 9. Passing on the outside of 9 gives no entry into 10.
Wow...what a scary crash! I hope the guy is ok. The guy in the back was clearly able to hold his line & the guy in the front was likely swooping every corner. This is why intermediate group is so unpredictable...so many different skill levels.
God damn! Is the rider okay? Hell of a hit. :(
He broke his collarbone into 4 pieces but other than that he’s fine. He didn’t show any signs of concussion
@@33brianmorris DO you know if he was wearing an airbag?
That was a scary one. I couldn’t tell if the 2nd rider grabbed a hand full of brake or if the other bike hit the lever causing that wild flip.
Front rider needs to be bumped down to novice for a few TDs. If you enter a corner inside the race line, you commit to it. Swooping back onto the race line literally adds more time to your lap and makes you dangerously unpredictable.
Hope he’s ok. What software do you use for the speedometer, or did you code it yourself?
Race Render most likely.
Telemetry overlay to add the gauges, the data comes from a RaceBox mini device
Ah, so that's how dude in the thumbnail got into that position. The old "mash yer buddy's brake leaver trick."
He rides like a video game, trying to get those ⭐️⭐️ ⭐️ along the edge of the track.
It’s unfortunate
I've only done 3 track days (one each in 2009, 2010,and 2011) and I need to add in fairness that the bikes were provided by the manufacturer and the track days were very inexpensive. I signed up for intermediate all 3 times. I have to admit that when I ran with the intermediate group the first time that I felt like I was trapped by slower traffic in every session. I'm a street rider and not a racer. But I watch racing and I know the racing lines at the track I was on and stayed on them. In 2011 I was told that I need to move to the advanced group and that really fucked me up. There were still slow people but there were also REALLY fast people. I got stuck behind 2 guys for 3 laps that had absolutely no corner speed but they could twist the throttle on anything straight. I finally said "fuck it" and passed them both on the outside and, as I approached the next corner, I wondered if I had just made a bad life decision and would wad myself up in the gravel trap outside of turn 1. The bike was WAY better than my street ride and the track was WAY better than a road. That being said- the slow dude in this video made such a fucked up move that makes absolutely zero sense. It wasn't going to improve his corner entrance because he ran so wide AND he didn't run wide because he was going too fast.
Generally speaking a 1:28 lap time is A group at Jennings, I believe 1:30 is the "recommended" cut off.
This is the 4th session of the day. If the lead rider is in the wrong group track marshal/race director should have done something by now.
I am not a very fast or necessarily a very good rider, but I can tell from turn 1 that you better be careful with this guy.
His body positioning is a dead give away that you cannot trust him.
Turn 7 just confirms that and turn 8 is an instant replay.
TOTALLY PREDICTABLE!!!
It's a TRACKDAY why risk it.
Track days are pretty scary because of all the crazy lines the street guys use.
I have been wanting to try a track day at Jennings ,now I am nervous. I raced in CCS in 2001 and 2002 . But ,I never had hit anyone or got hit .
U should be fine if you just focus on what’s in front of you. Do not ever ever look back on the track. Do not worry about whatever that’s behind you.
The dude who wiped out the passing rider is few and far between and will hopefully stay away for awhile. JGP runs a great TD and this is a rarity!
I feel you could chance it up the inside more and brake a bit later.. and possibly accelerate harder on corner exit, get round the outside so you got inside line for the next corner..
The dude in the blue and white Suzuki leathers has no idea what the fuck the race line is LMFAO. Dude is riding like he's the only one on track. I do believe the rider behind is responsible for the accident... But good god, the rider in front is delusional on a bike.
Damn, tough lusk. I don't think I would be trying to pass anyone on a track day unless it's on the straight or I knew them and their riding style.
It was really good to see the bike skip right over him. It wasn't his time to go. Awesome !
He learned a valuable lesson that day, all of his own making. Hope he's ok and keeps doing what he clearly enjoys, We all make mistakes, just learn from them.
This almost happened to me twice during my first track day where I was on a Ducati 748 and many other riders were on Kawasaki 400s. I would try to pass on the outside after coming out of a turn but the person ahead jumped in front of me to get back onto the racing line. I sure thanked my brakes that day!
Love to know what group this is. Also the guys fault making the pass
It's definitely not the guy's fault who is making the pass. It's not his fault the guy all of a sudden decided to swerve left to go right...
A group, no CR’s or “bumps” at Jennings though. You can just elect to be A group. The front rider doesn’t belong, regardless of the risky pass maneuver. Wouldn’t have been risky with all A group level riders out there in my opinion
@@33brianmorris100%
@@33brianmorris Yeah the big guy looked about as "beginner" as you get. That's ridiculous.
Completely unrelated but what is the data/overlay setup you are using? Would really love to see all that.
I crashed entering a corner when another rider cut across me. I could claim it was his fault but no, it was entirely mine for not being prepared for that. Track riding isn't racing.
Track day meat grinder with no pay
this is why im weary of passing ive had close calls like this bc i predicted a line the guy was going to follow and was wrong and had all the steam built up for the pass. closest pass ive had i about 6 inches from bar to bar and i just powered through it because the speed difference was so great if i would have tried to slow and let him over we would have collided im almost certain. ever since that pass ive been alot more patient on the track
Holy nasty man ! That was for sure a nasty hit 😮
No lever guard?
Lucky to be alive.
Wow!!! That's scary. I hope he is ok.
I give him an 8, he didn't point his toes for extra style points!
Prime example of total armature move by the guy being passed. The guy behind was expecting the guy to stay right not sit up and come across the track.
Completely unpredictable squid move; nobody rides like that? That's why he caught the guy; he was so dang slow. He really only had the one previous turn to see the guy was (a douche) out of control. It's like at work where you either don't work with people who don't know what they're doing, or you're extremely careful they don't get you killed. I guess same goes for amateur track day. What an incredible bummer.
The guy in the front was all over the place...weaving back and forth
The guy in the front was on the racing line. The guy on the rear shouldn't have accelerated into the front guys racing line.
@@the_rush_to_nothing Incorrect. The guy passing was on the proper racing line because he was actually carrying some speed. The guy getting passed swerved left to go right and for no good reason as his speed 100% did not justify his erratic line selection. The proper racing line is never to first eratically swerve in the opposite direction of the corner and then enter the corner.
@@jamesmullen75 incorrect. Person in the front has the right of way, not his responsibility to cater to those behind him. Also, he was on the racing line, and because he’s in front, and on the racing line, it’s the due diligence of the guy behind to make sure he doesn’t put himself in a bad position, which he did.
@@the_rush_to_nothing Nope. If he was on the racing line to begin with he wouldn't have had to erratically and abruptly swerve left to lean right. He blew the previous corner and tried to correct for it. He did this for no reason at all. He wasn't even going fast enough to justify being on the fast line. The person in front doesn't have the right to ride like an irresponsible asshole. He has an obligation to ride in a predictable manner. The pass was going to be clean right up until the guy in front decided to ride like an idiot. You can say the person doing the passing must assume the risk that the person they are passing might decide to ride like an idiot at the last second and I would agree with you on that but the situation in this video is more due to the shortcomings of the skill level of the rider being passed than the one doing the passing.
@@jamesmullen75 “fast line” = racing line. If he’s in the front, doesn’t matter how fast he’s riding, he has the right of way. Again, not his obligation to cater to those behind him. No, he’s not weaving like an asshole, he’s following the racing line. The guy behind got out of the racing line at the straight in hopes to pass on the racing line at the turn, which he was assuming the guy in front wouldn’t take, bad choice, because the guy in the front did. Guy in the front did nothing wrong.
So no one’s gonna talk about how his steering stabilizer is wobbly af?💀
its the guy from behinds fault.
Nah, this was a clear violation of line choice etiquette by the rider in front. This is said at the morning riders meeting at tracks across the country.
Yep, the rider making the pass is at fault.
@@Tsxtasy1 Etiquette? It is a race, there's no etiquette in winning.
@@Waldo1122this isn’t a race-catch up, kid.
@@VState60 It is called a race track for a reason...
Hold your line.
Dont run deep in corners, might be someone passing on inside,leave room.
You cant use the whole track,theres always someone faster coming up behind you,fast.
The rider in the lead was trying to square off turn nine as if he were driving a 40 foot semi.
Seems like whenever two bikes collide sideways the one that is ahead of the other one is more likely to survive the crash.
He got a poor corner exit then decided flick his bike back onto the racing line without a head check, hes guilty of causing a collision.
Head checks and mirrors are discouraged on track.
You never look behind you on the track. Less than safe by the lead Rider... But the responsibility of making a safe pass falls on the trailing Rider. Lead Rider isnt off the seat mid corner, low corner speed, and blew the apex. Gotta make that read and setup the pass better
@@atalbrittonIf you won't take my word for it ask a marshal at the next track day brief if you should leave the racing line then jump back on it without checking.
This is the most incorrect statement I have ever read.
The passer is 100% at fault here.
The line was his to choose. Sure it wasn't the best line... but there was dozens of opportunities to pass that guy on the inside.
It’s a track day, not a race. Onus is on the rider overtaking to pass safely. It was obvious the other rider was going to switch back across to the left to enter the next corner.
I know one thing. He's not alright. I msure there were some broken bones.
it's the guy passing that is to blame.
if you can't get by/pass cleanly. then it's not safe to pass 🤷♂️
horrible situation all around though, damn
Damnit man!!!!! That's going to leave a mark. Where is this track? I remember people talking about it back in the 90s when I used to race
north florida
A brake lever guard would have prevented that crash. Compulsory on UK tracks.
never do so sudden moves....unlucky guy. hope he is allright
considering it was in A group, i'd say that the lead rider is a "fault", more so for being in the wrong group. his corner speed is B group at best.
however the passing bike really should have been more to the left (on the far left edge of the track) when making the pass, if he was, it all likely would have went to plan
I really hope this wasn’t advanced group….
You can see the guy swoop between turn 6 and 7 as well, and that's a longer faster straight to pass than between 8-9. 100% passer's fault. Easily could've wait until 11-13 for the easier pass.
I've seen this happen before at this exact spot in intermediate a few years back. Luckily they bumped and both riders rode off into the grass and no one went down. I think passer panicked and grab a big old handful of brake into an endo.
What will it do for you exactly then? I think i know now other driver can’t push it in? Activate it
Not an accident..!
had my first ever track day in novice, been doing street only on my '10 s1k and 4:05 is what almost happened to me.
slow as fuck rider taking the racing line when they could just stay in the same slow ass line they were doing.
Owie booboo
Damn super unfortunate
Lead guy drifted to the left. I’m assuming to square up the turn as rider in the rear was trying to pass, it’s a track day not a race, riders need to understand. These guys are not professionals and sometimes drift way off the race line, that look like a bad crash. I hope that guy is OK.
It was a completely predictable move on the first rider, second guy has the responsibility to understand what is happening in front of him, everyone blows a turn and gets back in the race/track line, it’s a track day not a race, completely avoidable
Passing rider was at fault 100%. It is always the passer to ensure the line is clear and the pass is safe. Over rode his bike and wasn’t using his better judgement. The front rider might have been in the wrong group. But still the liability and fault is on the passing rider.
Glad I'll never have to worry about this shmuck in advanced group
I love people trying to learn and nail the "perfect line" but if you're not at race pace stay off the race line. You made a mistake coming out of the corner, great, take this as an opportunity to experiment with corner entry from a tighter arc. Genuine racing means you take whatever line is available and it's definitely not the "race line" most of the time.
Practice and track days aren't for aggressive passing but jesus christ you cant shoot across the track to get back onto what you consider the "race line".
I was in a big group of guys learning a track I was very familiar with during a practice day, and I cut inside to take a hard drive out of the corner past a guy on a much slower bike and all of a sudden he's flying across the track from the outside to set up for the next corner. I only barely made it past him because of my hard acceleration, but it was elbows and knees touching. And since I was in a fairly large pack I wasnt going to do crazy swerves to avoid the guy. I did what was necessary and knew I had the speed to get past him. If i were any slower it may have been contact on my front wheel.
That’s why this guy should have stayed in the novice class, he’s unpredictable and too slow.
I love these comments....blah, blah, blah schites going to happen...ffs.
These comments are wild, people saying the dude in front at fault 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ you’re on a track there are lines they teach you to ride. Oh boy in the middle wasn’t riding those line, he actually was holding the guy up on the naked bike. Good riders would have known the guy in the front needs caution going around his lean angle isn’t the best. Yeah cornering skills must stink to think dude in the front was at fault.
That sucks, but also not a good pass
I hope BOTH riders are okay. That was an unintentional event that "could have been" a lot worse. Weather on the track, on street, or on a dirt road, this "sport", is dangerous!! Ride with confidence AND, make your decisions with some care for others. That's what I do. I ride STREET. I absolutely advise to KEEP YOUR MIRRORS ON!, and use those mirrors as if your life depends on it!!. But some riders can't WAIT to pull um OFF 😞. ON TRACK, NO mirrors allowed right? You better factor that fact IN, when you approach a rider, with intent to pass his ass. DON'T be so trusting and/or assuming, fcol. Be a calculating tactician on that TRACK. -🍀
definitely the guy leading's fault. his turn angle isnt smooth
Track is not very challenging, and none of these guys have their bikes properly set up. Worse, is their lines are pretty terrible. Certainly a lesson to learn, but you are certainly responsible for yourself. It’s important to know how others react on the street. More so on the track. All three are really not that experienced. Sometimes it is best to find some open asphalt a way from others. Riding in a somewhat controlled environment like a track may be safer, but you have to take things seriously, and know the risks. Yes, riding folks you know and where their lines are certainly helps at speed, but you are running your own race. Just watching these knuckleheads, just about every line and braking points were different. Not that smooth, and again these noob’s lines were pretty god awful. You wouldn’t even really want to ride together on a public road with this group. I may no longer race, but I work on my lines every single day with whatever I drive.
Someone said this is a prime example for a brake guard?? WTf, this is a great example of not paying attention, trying to do to much, horrible mistake on his part, thankfully the first rider wasn’t injured due the negligence of the second idiot
If your faster pass on the inside
DAMMIT!!!!