Why Did God Create Judas?

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  • Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
  • Joe Heschmeyer explores the complex theological implications of Judas' betrayal, examining whether Jesus' choice of Judas suggests a deeper, potentially troubling divine plan.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 510

  • @PapaGJournal
    @PapaGJournal 5 місяців тому +238

    These same people who claim Judas played a role in salvation claim Mary couldn't play a role in salvation.

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 5 місяців тому +55

      That's a big oof. When Mary has faith, they say it's just a sinful woman being blessed by God, but then they call the betrayal of our Lord "the most glorious act in human history". Big ick

    • @iohannesfactotum
      @iohannesfactotum 5 місяців тому +27

      You win Catholic internet for the day!

    • @josh39684
      @josh39684 5 місяців тому +23

      I know it's insane.
      "And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith." - St Irenaeus of Lyons
      Further, he states
      "Being obedient, she (Mary) became the cause of salvation for herself and the whole human race." - St Irenaeus
      The fact they can't say Mary didn't have even the smallest role in salvation (even though she literally gave birth to our Lord) is blasphemous

    • @catholicguy1073
      @catholicguy1073 5 місяців тому +13

      The irony is rich

    • @mikekayanderson408
      @mikekayanderson408 5 місяців тому +1

      @@michaelbeauchamp22 I agree the statements Joe read out almost congratulating Judas sounded very strange. I would never describe him like that and I am Protestant. Reformed too. But I do not think all Protestant preachers would use that language. So do not paint us all with the same colour.
      But Judas did play an important role in the whole story of Jesus’ arrest.
      He was an instrument of God the Father and did fulfil prophecy.

  • @MoliFrancis
    @MoliFrancis 5 місяців тому +211

    Never apologize for calling on the fallacies of Protestant leaders. You’re doing the right thing . Love your channel

    • @mikekayanderson408
      @mikekayanderson408 5 місяців тому

      I do not apologise for calling out the RCC fallacies either! The Catholic Church is full of them! The Catholic Church is apostate.

    • @Lucas-jy7cv
      @Lucas-jy7cv 5 місяців тому +8

      I went with a coworker to estimate a church and they had a poster and it was Matt. 16-18. But they left the spoken words to st. Peter out.

    • @mikekayanderson408
      @mikekayanderson408 5 місяців тому

      Well I do not have to apologise for calling out the Catholic Church which is full of false teaching. The Catholic Church is apostate.

    • @Hope_Boat
      @Hope_Boat 5 місяців тому +1

      Orthodox here. I admire you dedication to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
      Lord have mercy on us all sinners.

    • @My10thAccount
      @My10thAccount 5 місяців тому

      @@Hope_Boat
      Let us all make sure that we have no beams in our eyes as we do such holy works.
      Ave Christus Rex

  • @alanzych4178
    @alanzych4178 5 місяців тому +72

    Not only is this channel really informative, but its purpose is for our spiritual growth with our Lord. Great video 👏

  • @deepusnttf432
    @deepusnttf432 5 місяців тому +56

    Thanks Joe for another wonderful video. What I can learn is 1)God is merciful and he wants everyone to be saved. 2)Bible is right but Bible in wrong hands is dangerous.

    • @mikekayanderson408
      @mikekayanderson408 5 місяців тому

      The Bible in the hands of the Catholic Church is dangerous. It has been changed and misinterpreted by the Catholic Church for centuries.

    • @essafats5728
      @essafats5728 5 місяців тому +1

      @@mikekayanderson408 and yet you as a 21st century earthly created, was there at the compilation and preservation of the Holy Bible, along with your faith tradition? Then knows more than all those early Christians while only being on earth for such a short while (a whole lot less than 2000yrs of Christianity)?

  • @brob368
    @brob368 5 місяців тому +99

    “We don’t believe in the Lord because he’s powerful, the devil is more powerful than us and we don’t worship him, we worship the Lord because he is Good” epic

    • @papuciowy1465
      @papuciowy1465 5 місяців тому

      God is more powerful than satan.

    • @AscendingAdventures
      @AscendingAdventures 5 місяців тому

      St. Christopher has entered the chat

    • @EmberBright2077
      @EmberBright2077 3 місяці тому

      ​@@papuciowy1465 So would you worship the Devil if he were omnipotent?

    • @papuciowy1465
      @papuciowy1465 3 місяці тому +1

      @@EmberBright2077 Only God can be Omnipotent.

    • @EmberBright2077
      @EmberBright2077 3 місяці тому

      @papuciowy1465 That's why I asked a hypothetical question.

  • @tigerboigrape
    @tigerboigrape 5 місяців тому +59

    Catholicism has set me free, I want you to know that. My family is huge into R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur and John Piper (although John Piper is considered too much of a fence-sitter in Calvinist circles). Being in my 20s now, I spent most of my teenage years learning about their version of God and became very distant from Him. Their God is indeed very cruel, dooming people to Hell as He sees fit, causing sin if it serves His purposes, nothing is outside of his direct action and will. And obviously, everyone "chosen" is everyone who ascribes to this theology. Catholicism has made me hungry for God like never before. Thank you!!

    • @4jchan
      @4jchan 5 місяців тому

      Sad for you

    • @smartismarti4049
      @smartismarti4049 5 місяців тому +2

      God bless you.

    • @sivad1025
      @sivad1025 5 місяців тому +9

      Very similar experience. But my bigger issue was the "never saved to begin with" theology. I figured if I were already sinning, what's the point of stopping because I'll end up doing it again and maybe that will mean I just have never been saved?
      The sacrament of reconciliation is so freeing for a former Calvinist

    • @4jchan
      @4jchan 5 місяців тому

      @@sivad1025 you misunderstood apostasy

    • @sivad1025
      @sivad1025 5 місяців тому +2

      @@4jchan How can you apostatize if all the saints persevere?

  • @vtaylor21
    @vtaylor21 5 місяців тому +54

    I am glad there is a video on this topic of Judas.
    I discussed Once Saved Always Saved with someone. Judas was mentioned in our conversation. They claimed Judas was never a true believer. That is odd. How did Judas become an apostle if he never believed in Jesus? That can be interpreted as a claim that Jesus ordained a non-believer as an apostle and gave them authority.

    • @mram03
      @mram03 5 місяців тому +18

      Yup, it’s an issue that Joe addressed in a recent video. The syllogism he showed kind of exposes Calvinism. I wished I could do a better job of remembering the arguments tho

    • @philosopher-2007
      @philosopher-2007 5 місяців тому +3

      @@mram03 i think it was his last video, I remember this same discussion yesterday

    • @dr.tafazzi
      @dr.tafazzi 5 місяців тому

      @@GizmoFromPizmo kinda like your vibes-based justification for the canon of scripture?

    • @dr.tafazzi
      @dr.tafazzi 5 місяців тому

      @@GizmoFromPizmo you dom't have any rational grounds for holding tl your own view of what is anf isn't in the word of God. I showed you that.

    • @dr.tafazzi
      @dr.tafazzi 5 місяців тому

      @@GizmoFromPizmo I have a rational basis for my canon, you don't.

  • @TakeTheHighground
    @TakeTheHighground 5 місяців тому +32

    Joe, the more I see from you, the more I like your work. This in-depth stuff is really good. Love Trent, Jimmy, and all the other guys, but they tend to be short on those things, while this long form theological content is absolutely awesome.

  • @powerlessburger
    @powerlessburger 5 місяців тому +36

    This is my favorite part of Thursday

  • @Fiddleslip
    @Fiddleslip 5 місяців тому +90

    that clip from RC Sproul was demonic. The glee with which he hails Judas for the betrayal is actually disgusting

    • @timboslice980
      @timboslice980 5 місяців тому +21

      Yeah RC realized how awful their theology is but has to act like its a good thing so you see and hear really bizarre things with bizarre tones from him. When he said “god damned the son” it was waaaay too far for me

    • @locksmith9498
      @locksmith9498 5 місяців тому +1

      Absolutely, and to think that I used to admire people like the perpetually displeased Mr Sadface himself, Paul Washer is appalling. MacArthur suggesting that Jesus 'was done with his mother' and now RC Sproul saying Judas did a glorious job? What the hell is wrong with these people? A childhood trauma perhaps. Maybe a little less theology and a little more help from a psychiatrist would be helpful because, clearly, something is not right here. We're short of a few french fries here, just on the level of human reasoning and logic which is clearly severely corrupt. Where is the heart of the gospel? That Jesus throws away his mother like a squashed orange after 'utilizing her womb'? That Judas betrayal is really good? Such vile perversion. It's demonic, just listen to the snarl of RC Sproul. I feel sick at my stomach.

    • @timboslice980
      @timboslice980 5 місяців тому +13

      @@locksmith9498 I know its really sick! Think about God making Judas just to force him to betray his son later and then damning him to hell like it was his idea. Calvinism’s god is a horrifying monster

    • @josh39684
      @josh39684 5 місяців тому +4

      I about puked 🤮

    • @anitra7747
      @anitra7747 5 місяців тому +8

      They treat Mary with the same disregard. God used her and she is just another woman. No one of any repute. It’s such a contrary way to see God as a loving Father who just uses people to achieve His divine goal.
      But He gave His life for you, a wretched sinner, just so he can use you as well. Sounds delightful and attractive. I’m so blessed to have been drawn away from that tradition. I am a humbled and grateful convert.

  • @maremare1655
    @maremare1655 5 місяців тому +13

    Wonderful video on the topic of Judas. I recently listened to a homily by Fr. Oluoma Chineneye (they are all on UA-cam) where he talks about the misconception of friendship. "Nobody becomes the friend of another person rather as a friend, you are chosen. I can choose you as my friend, but I don't know if you have chosen me...Your friend is the person you are willing to die for, your friend is not the person who is willing to die for you.". I've been listening to his sermons for years. Deep is calling on deep.

    • @marystone1526
      @marystone1526 5 місяців тому

      Thank you so much for sharing this! Truly inspiring. May God bless you and Fr Chineneye. 🙏🏻

    • @maremare1655
      @maremare1655 5 місяців тому

      @@marystone1526 Your welcome. His sermons will go down in history. He's a gifted priest.

  • @JuanGonzalez-kb3gm
    @JuanGonzalez-kb3gm 5 місяців тому +39

    This is why our fellow Protestants should study early church history.
    Not only is Johny Mac a modern Nestorian
    Seems like they combine some Marcionism too.

    • @Hope_Boat
      @Hope_Boat 5 місяців тому

      Orthodox here. Same is true for Roman Catholics.

    • @JuanGonzalez-kb3gm
      @JuanGonzalez-kb3gm 5 місяців тому +2

      @@Hope_Boat the reason for my comment is so that Protestants stop attacking Catholics and Orthodox. John MacArthur calls you our little brothers that is still a sect.
      With that said please provide a couple of Orthodox Church fathers so we can read into them.
      I never attack Orthodox, seldomly engage in discussion with you guys. A discussion brings about things alike and we have so many. I pray for the unity of our churches.
      God bless.

    • @Hope_Boat
      @Hope_Boat 5 місяців тому

      @@JuanGonzalez-kb3gm with pleasure. I will cite saint pope of Rome Leo III who, in 810AD received a delegation from Charlemagne. Charlemagne had just summoned a local synod in his imperial capital Aachen and that synod had decided to alter the Nicene Constantinopolitan Creed by adding the filioque clause to it.
      The delegates pressured saint Leo III to do the same with the creed of the entire Roman Church. It doesn't take a deep political education to understand what Charlemagne was thinking : the creed was the instrument of the unity of the Church. By modifying unilaterally the creed he hoped to provoke a schism with the Eastern Church thus increasing his control over the West.
      Sain Leo III refused explaining that popes had not such powers. According to the Liber Pontificalis he then nailed two silver shields on the doors of st Peter's cathedral with the unaltered text of the creed engraved in Greek and Latin followed by the sentence:
      I LEO DID THIS FOR THE SAKE AND THE LOVE OF THE ORTHODOX FAITH.
      This was the first time that the orthodox faith was defined by opposition to the filioque as we orthodox still understand it today. That's the kind of elements of history I think need to be taught to our Catholic brothers. Because their knowledge of the great schism starts with the anathematizations of 1054 who were in fact the end of the filioque dispute. Not the begining.

    • @GranMaese
      @GranMaese 5 місяців тому

      @@Hope_Boat Said no one educated ever, dear brother.

    • @Hope_Boat
      @Hope_Boat 5 місяців тому

      @@GranMaese the irony
      Kyrie eleison ☦️

  • @robertoalvarado3759
    @robertoalvarado3759 5 місяців тому +4

    Joe you have no idea how much these videos mean to me, help me in my faith and understanding theology better. I like how you talk about one subject but cover others in the process like the part about Pilate, I feel that went over venial and mortal sin.
    Thank you for the content, I pray for you and everyone at Catholic answers

  • @Lovecatholicfaith
    @Lovecatholicfaith 5 місяців тому +19

    Wow! It is insane! I think LDS doctrine has same Calvinist beliefs. I am 5 years studying LDS doctrine when I realized it was a delusion. I was raised LDS and since a dream with momma Mary I found my way to catholic faith.

    • @smartismarti4049
      @smartismarti4049 5 місяців тому

      I see some Calvinist influence in LDS doctrine too.

    • @elizabethking5523
      @elizabethking5523 4 місяці тому +2

      Praise be to God!!! I was a devout Mormon for the first 33 years of my life former sixth generation! Then , in the protestant evangelical world and church for 17 years and in 2017 started studying the Catholic faith just so that I could understand it because I had a very precious dear friend that was Catholic - that I wanted to understand where she was coming from. I had no plans to leave the Baptist church, but, seven years later I couldn’t believe what I was finding and became a Catholic this year!!!! so so happy you found it as well!!! The Eucharist is true!!❤🙏🏻Blessings!!!

  • @Qwerty-jy9mj
    @Qwerty-jy9mj 5 місяців тому +33

    After listening to the man I have to wonder, how did MacArthur ever get any kind of popularity at all?

    • @henrytucker7189
      @henrytucker7189 5 місяців тому +2

      Because it’s the allure of the cult. It’s gnostic in the sense that you get to be part of an exclusive community of those receiving knowledge unknown (or rejected) by the rest of humanity. Many Reformed people behave as though they are thrilled that the elect are such a tiny number… because it assures them they’re right. It’s as incoherent as saying I know my husband loves be because he beats me.

    • @philosopher-2007
      @philosopher-2007 5 місяців тому +1

      misdirection and the innate dissatisfaction that protestants have with early church history-study

    • @tigerboigrape
      @tigerboigrape 5 місяців тому +14

      He's "smart Joel Osteen." My family is way into him. They act extremely superior to Christians who don't accept the doctrines that MacArthur teaches. It's a cult of personality

    • @j897xce
      @j897xce 5 місяців тому +3

      ​@@tigerboigrapeit's almost like he's a pope... Lol. We all have one. Either it's the papacy, our self (rather our lens we filter it all through), or someone in the moment like J Mac

  • @GranMaese
    @GranMaese 5 місяців тому +4

    I can't express enough how much I love Joe's videos.

  • @filiamaria8
    @filiamaria8 21 день тому

    Thank you Thank you Thank you for all these insights and lovingly sensical interpretations of scripture. God bless you all❤❤❤

  • @iu9142
    @iu9142 5 місяців тому +4

    man this was a question that i was wrestling with thank you can wait to finish it

  • @supernerd8067
    @supernerd8067 5 місяців тому +3

    Thanks Joe for the ending message. As someone who has been repeatedly struggling with sin, especially pride and lust, this is a message of hope that saved me back in February and has kept me going forward despite my horrendous deeds and omissions.
    God does not trick us into loving Him, nor does He trick us into damnation. He loves us and wants us to be like Him. Like you said, He allows us to fall, but He can use it to bring about a greater good.

  • @benjaminwarsocki1663
    @benjaminwarsocki1663 5 місяців тому +22

    I was trying to call on Catholic answers live yesterday to suggest you make a comprehensive video disproving Calvinism, but the lines were all full.
    Imagine my surprise waking up the next morning and figuring out you did just that! Thank you! I believe that Calvinism is the number one obstacle to Christian unity, and I hope this video helps to snap people out of this false theology.

  • @notazazel
    @notazazel 5 місяців тому +5

    Great vid. I probably need to watch this a dozen times before I finally feel like I understand

  • @jamie3958
    @jamie3958 5 місяців тому +5

    Excellent clarity, for example on the LORD hardening Pharoah's heart.

  • @SuperTommox
    @SuperTommox 5 місяців тому +81

    Calvinism is truly scary.

    • @ronanjm
      @ronanjm 5 місяців тому +4

      Calvinists reject the idea that God directly causes sin. It’s in their confessions.

    • @jhoughjr1
      @jhoughjr1 5 місяців тому +3

      Free will is rough. We either have it or we dont.

    • @starshipchris4518
      @starshipchris4518 5 місяців тому +9

      ​@@ronanjmnot all Calvinists adhere to or even know their Confessions.

    • @christopherlampman5579
      @christopherlampman5579 5 місяців тому +21

      90% reason I left reformed thought and had no choice but to be Catholic

    • @edrash1
      @edrash1 4 місяці тому

      Pelagian dog

  • @damnedmadman
    @damnedmadman 5 місяців тому +3

    This is soooo good❗Thank you Joe🙏

  • @rivereuphrates8103
    @rivereuphrates8103 5 місяців тому +14

    I'm never this early. You're doing great work, Mr. Heschmeyer! Thank you!

  • @donecsedy1222
    @donecsedy1222 5 місяців тому +2

    Joe, after reading the first 145 comments, I think you have managed to confound not only the trolls, but even the naive Catholics who would bother to argue with them. Congratulations for a great job and a truely great video.

  • @MikePasqqsaPekiM
    @MikePasqqsaPekiM 5 місяців тому +8

    Romano Guardini gave one illustration for Judas… He compares it to someone who begins to hate the goodness and holiness of their friend, because of how their goodness and holiness makes them feel about themselves. It gets to the point that the more kindness and love given, the more loathing in return, until Judas hates Jesus specifically because of His love. We are capable of this with friends, and God, too.

  • @Melynn13
    @Melynn13 5 місяців тому +3

    This was a good take. I hadn't heard the contrast between Judas and Peter before. ❤

  • @guyguytchombi5425
    @guyguytchombi5425 5 місяців тому +3

    Thank you for this talk on Judas and all the great work you do Joe. God Bless.

  • @juanspyro4658
    @juanspyro4658 5 місяців тому +1

    Amazing video, incredibly in depth and easy to follow - God has blessed you dude

  • @MikePasqqsaPekiM
    @MikePasqqsaPekiM 5 місяців тому +4

    Fantastic episode, thank you.

  • @daviddabrowski01
    @daviddabrowski01 5 місяців тому +1

    Thank you Joe. These videos are so darn good 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

  • @TheMoreYouSew
    @TheMoreYouSew 5 місяців тому +1

    This is so so good. Thanks, Joe! Please do more videos like this.

  • @LibraryDarkArts
    @LibraryDarkArts 5 місяців тому +17

    On Pharaoh’s hardened heart -
    A good analogy is to point out that many people often use the expression,
    “You made me mad”
    Which we can understand very clearly that a person cannot literally make you feel mad, but that something that they did or said caused you to react by feeling mad all on your own.
    Only emotionally immature persons actually think that their emotions can be controlled by other people.

  • @rosiegirl2485
    @rosiegirl2485 5 місяців тому

    Joe, I love how you walk us through the teaching of scripture.
    You show us other ways of interpreting the teachings and why they don't work.
    Thank you and may God continue to bless you and your work! 🙏

  • @dreamweaver3406
    @dreamweaver3406 5 місяців тому +1

    Excellent-thank you for clearing up some confusion regarding those scriptures.

  • @calledtobedifferent
    @calledtobedifferent 5 місяців тому +5

    Thanks, Joe, for pointing out the insanity of Calvinism! 🙌💯 Great video! Great work! God bless! 🙏

    • @Hope_Boat
      @Hope_Boat 5 місяців тому

      Orthodox here. Calvinism is a reaction the the foolishness of Catholicism. You shouldn't be too harsh in your condemnation. It was the pope's job to not lead them to protest, was it not?

  • @Christina00nline
    @Christina00nline 4 місяці тому

    What happened to your opening music? Mr. Joe!?! I know you've been changing your video styles lately, but please consider putting that back in! Your channel has been a huge highlight in my life and every time I hear that opening intro music my heart just becomes so happy and filled with calm. I really look forward to it! It's the sound that I associate with good logic and learning to come

  • @CaptainMacFish
    @CaptainMacFish 5 місяців тому +2

    God is the author of good and evil in that he permits them to exist for his glory. That does not mean that he causes us to be evil or good or that he condones that which is evil.
    I really appreciate you Mr. Heschmeyer, you've really helped me to grow in Christ, and I'm looking at being confirmed into the Church this coming year!

  • @cruznature7545
    @cruznature7545 5 місяців тому +20

    Judas could have been saved had he asked for forgiveness, judas was not saved because he didn't trust in Jesus forgiveness he thought he could not be forgiven, then he sins even more when he takes his own life. How true is this of many people who think their sin is more powerful than God grace, who because of their sin they condemned themselves.

    • @tookie36
      @tookie36 5 місяців тому

      @@cruznature7545 how do you know Judas isn’t saved?

    • @cruznature7545
      @cruznature7545 5 місяців тому +1

      @@tookie36 ..read my comment again.

    • @tookie36
      @tookie36 5 місяців тому

      @@cruznature7545 yes you say Judas was not saved… that’s a wild statement since no one knows that

    • @JoseDiaz-tf2ql
      @JoseDiaz-tf2ql 5 місяців тому

      It’s true we don’t know. It has been said in private revelations(I forgot whose) that there 3 levels to purgatory and that the lowest one is where intercessory prayers cannot reach the souls there. I personally hope that he at least made it there even if his time there lasts until the end of time.
      But yeah, we will only know if we ourselves make it.

    • @gomezjkv
      @gomezjkv 5 місяців тому

      Salvation was not available because Judas died before Jesus died. Salvation was not available to anyone before Jesus died. Judas, and the world, was still living under the Old Covenant. The world was still under the Mosaic Law. According to the law anyone who falsely accused someone was to receive the same punishment the person would have received if the accusation was true and the person found guilty. In order to keep the commandments of God, Judas should have received death. But the religious leaders couldn’t have cared less that Judas repented. So, Judas took the law into his own hands and fulfilled the requirements of the law by killing himself. Just another perspective. God bless.

  • @matthewfarrelly5749
    @matthewfarrelly5749 5 місяців тому +1

    Thank you for a great episode! A couple things re: the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart. First, Exodus 9:16: depending on the language of one’s translation, the verse can read something like, “I have raised you up for this very purpose…to show my power/glory.” This is, of course, a very significant verse for Calvinists, for they assume God is creating Pharaoh for destruction. They also read Romans 9-11 with this in view (would you consider doing a podcast on that section of scripture?) And although this is a good translation, literally, it may be contextually less good. The Hiphil stem is literally, “I have caused you to stand,” which could suggest, “I have created you for this purpose…” HOWEVER, other translations, like the RSVCE, render it something like, “I have let you live,” or more literally, “I have caused you to remain alive.” The context demands this translation, considering only v. 15: “For by now I could have put forth my hand and struck you and your people with pestilence, and you would have been cut off from the earth.” Thus, whatever God is doing to harden Pharaoh’s heart, like the Joseph text, he is “meaning it for good” and taking advantage of the situation for his ends, ACCOUNTING for Pharaoh’s heart. This is also key, I think: it is not without *knowledge* of the heart of Pharaoh FIRST, and then, like the logic of Romans 1, God gives Pharaoh over to his heart. Exodus 3:19 says (the Lord speaking), “I know the king of Egypt will not let you go unless compelled by a mighty hand.” That verse precedes all other verse of hardening hearts.
    Finally, and really cool, I think: remember that Moses was educated in the way of the Egyptians (Acts 7:22-25). While hardening the heart means what we think it means throughout the Bible, consider, also, the Weighing of the Heart ceremony in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which Moses may very well have known. In the ceremony, the heart is weighed against the feather of Ma’at, the god of justice. If heavy, judged as unjust; if light, then safe. Perhaps there is an echo there, and by using that phrase, too, Pharaoh is effectively deemed unjust - even by his own religious texts. Again, thank you!

  • @cabreraandrew23
    @cabreraandrew23 4 місяці тому +4

    I've always thought: Due to Judas being in mortal sin, due to his stealing, that allowed Satan to enter him. "Then Satan entered Judas". Satan can't do anything without God's permission. At the Last Supper Jesus told Satan "what you're about to do, do it quickly" Judas was possessed.

    • @crusaderACR
      @crusaderACR 4 місяці тому

      I've seen some suggest that perhaps it was due to the fact Judas partook of the Eucharist while in mortal sin. Perhaps related to how St. Paul said that if you're partaking in it while in sin is "eating and drinking death upon yourself"

  • @shanehanes7096
    @shanehanes7096 5 місяців тому +12

    So it seems to me that with the Calvinist model of the atonement, God caused Judas to make a greater penal sacrifice than Christ. Because by his actions Judas committed himself to eternal torment in hell, whereas Christ, as some atheists have quipped, only gave up a weekend.

    • @vincenzorutigliano5435
      @vincenzorutigliano5435 5 місяців тому +1

      The permanence of death is not what Jesus was sacrificed into but into the experience of dying was the sacrifice, being condemned and executed as a criminal while being innocent.
      That is only part of the story, Jesus also rose again to defeat death to show that all of those who follow Him will not die forever.
      So no, Jesus did not sacrifice a weekend, he sacrificed his human dignity by dying a shameful and painful death that he did not deserve, and as God he humbled himself, like Paul said in Philippians.

    • @shanehanes7096
      @shanehanes7096 5 місяців тому +1

      @@vincenzorutigliano5435 I’m not in disagreement with you. I’m glad to say he gave up a weekend though, because that means he rose from the dead.

    • @PuzzlesC4M
      @PuzzlesC4M 5 місяців тому +1

      This is profound. You literally disproved Calvinism and penal substitution in one comment! Scary that people have been falling into this trap for 500 years. Lord, have mercy. Mother Mary, pray for us.

    • @EmberBright2077
      @EmberBright2077 3 місяці тому

      ​@@vincenzorutigliano5435 But how is that equal to eternity in hell?

  • @dizzynoggin
    @dizzynoggin 5 місяців тому

    Hi, Joe. Great video, once again.

  • @PirateXandarrr
    @PirateXandarrr 5 місяців тому +2

    Honey, wake up! The new episode of Shameless Popery just dropped!
    You are the GOAT, thank you for bringing so much insight and wisdom to these topics. You have been the single greatest earthly voice to lead me to my home in Rome. Thank you for everything that you do; God bless you and your ministry.

  • @catholicguy1073
    @catholicguy1073 5 місяців тому

    Great topic. I struggle with my faith all the time so these videos are nice to watch.

    • @alisterrebelo9013
      @alisterrebelo9013 5 місяців тому

      Faith is like a lit candle. A struggling faith is like a small candle with a small flame, and worldly distractions, sin and temptations are like unholy winds trying to extinguish that flame.
      A strong faith is a large candle with an enormous flame.
      To grow your faith candle, you need to engage in consistent prayer.
      It's not about quality or quantity, at least not in the beginning. Pray the Rosary faithfully everyday, and if you miss a day or two, try and do catchup ones. Once you can go a month without missing a day, then start focusing on prayer quality I.e. reducing mental distractions. You'll never have the perfect quality Rosary, but when you can go 2-3 months without missing a day, then consider adding more prayers or devotions.
      My suggestion is to add Bible reading as the next thing and not necessarily devotions, unless you feel a strong calling. God uses Bible readings to communicate His will to you, through the text.

  • @NotSoCradleCatholic
    @NotSoCradleCatholic 5 місяців тому +9

    Hey Joe, I’m about halfway through your video, very interesting and informative. But I’m commenting because I have some video suggestions. My first one is in Acts chapter 5, we get a story of 2 people dropping dead for lying about how much they sold their property for so they can keep money for themselves when giving alms. My mom asked me about this and I admitted that it was a passage that always challenged me. It never really affected my faith but I’ve always struggled to come up with a satisfying answer. My second video suggestion is about the typology of Mary as Queen of Heaven. You touched on this a little bit in your video on the assumption of Mary. But you only focused on Revelation 12. But I remember reading in the Books of Kings and Chronicles that the mother of the King is very important, and I believe I remember an instances where the King of Israel died with no children to succeed him, so his mother became Queen. Hope you see this, I think these would be interesting.

    • @philosopher-2007
      @philosopher-2007 5 місяців тому +4

      I hope he sees this

    • @AndrewDolder
      @AndrewDolder 5 місяців тому

      Why is the almsgiving story challenging for you?

    • @NotSoCradleCatholic
      @NotSoCradleCatholic 5 місяців тому

      Mainly because the punishment seems too harsh. Ananias and Sapphira never were even given a chance to repent. Im actually studying this right now. I have my Bible open and I’m looking at the footnotes and other references and my objections are being alleviated the more I look into it. I understand how there is a human aspect to the composition of the Bible but this instance just seems like a bit of a stretch in trying to justify it.

    • @NotSoCradleCatholic
      @NotSoCradleCatholic 5 місяців тому

      I would like to follow up. I’m now currently looking at commentaries on the passage and I can see how the punishment can be justified… either way I think it’s still a good video idea.

    • @AndrewDolder
      @AndrewDolder 5 місяців тому +3

      @@NotSoCradleCatholic This footnote is in the NABRE version:
      "The sin of Ananias and Sapphira did not consist in the withholding of part of the money but in their deception of the community. Their deaths are ascribed to a lie to the holy Spirit (Acts 5:3, 9), i.e., they accepted the honor accorded them by the community for their generosity, but in reality they were not deserving of it."
      Also, as Peter explained, "You have lied not to human beings, but to God." And again, "Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord?"

  • @bendybowski6307
    @bendybowski6307 5 місяців тому +12

    I use "...would have been better for him to be born..." as a proof that Hell will not be empty

    • @fantasia55
      @fantasia55 5 місяців тому +1

      Saint Pope John Paul II specifically denied that.

    • @dr.tafazzi
      @dr.tafazzi 5 місяців тому

      If Judas died in a miscarriage, he would not have been guilty of any personal sin, therefore if God in both cases chose to give him sanctifying grace, the miscarried Judas would have needed no time in purgatory, while Judas the deicide for sure needs some purgation.

  • @shellbackbeau7021
    @shellbackbeau7021 5 місяців тому +2

    Great video, I was just contemplating this very theme yesterday, and you put words to my thoughts better than I did!

  • @NotClosedMinded
    @NotClosedMinded 2 місяці тому

    Excellent video, very well explained, thank you. God bless you in Jesus name.

  • @pixelprincess9
    @pixelprincess9 5 місяців тому +4

    Joe once again proving that not all former law students have to be Calvinist.

  • @Mortylicious_
    @Mortylicious_ 5 місяців тому +3

    Great argument ❤

  • @cesargarcia7074
    @cesargarcia7074 5 місяців тому +3

    7:25 Cicero before his decapitation, I paraphrase, "what you are doing is wrong, but do it right."

    • @cesargarcia7074
      @cesargarcia7074 5 місяців тому

      This of course does not justify the executioners actions.

  • @benjaminshirley
    @benjaminshirley 5 місяців тому

    Joe, I love how you used a Calvinist to disprove a tenant of Calvinism. Good job! The Sun analogy is a good one!

  • @applin121
    @applin121 5 місяців тому

    One of your very best 👍🏻

  • @GilGaidola
    @GilGaidola 5 місяців тому

    Thank you very much for this video. I am forever grateful for the gift of free will. My prayer to my Lord is to come along side of me to assist me in My choices. Once again..thank you Joe for bringing clarity and wisdom to a world that is being lied to on a massive scale..God Bless !!!!

  • @rickyfielderjr6428
    @rickyfielderjr6428 5 місяців тому

    As a protestant Calvinist I appreciate you bringing this to light, I think this is an area where these teachers have stretched their logic beyond what the scripture will allow.

  • @amb_.
    @amb_. 5 місяців тому +1

    I love these videos!

  • @Nate_Higgins
    @Nate_Higgins 2 місяці тому

    Thanks. This is helpful. I've struggled with the meaning of Judas.

  • @paularnold3745
    @paularnold3745 5 місяців тому +9

    If Judas had not hanged himself he would have been forgiven after the resurrection, just like Peter. And we might have had a legitimate Gospel According to Judas, or Epistles by Judas.

    • @josh39684
      @josh39684 5 місяців тому +4

      I think Judas could have become a great redemption story if he had repented. Yet he chose not too

  • @timrichardson4018
    @timrichardson4018 5 місяців тому

    I love your juxtaposition of Peter and Judas at the end. Id add that we see Peter holding out hope of restoration to Jesus. I say this because when Peter sees Jesus from the boat and realizes its the Lord, he jumps out and swims to him .

  • @margaretposner450
    @margaretposner450 5 місяців тому

    The Harding of the heart is a combination of stubbornness and anger when you feel forced to do something you don’t want to do but

  • @j897xce
    @j897xce 5 місяців тому

    This content should surpass so many 2M+ view videos I've seem.

  • @SaintLeb
    @SaintLeb 5 місяців тому +1

    Hi Joe, could you please do a video on the orthodox and catholic schism😊

  • @josiealford6717
    @josiealford6717 25 днів тому

    Well said👍👍🙏

  • @deguilhemcorinne418
    @deguilhemcorinne418 4 місяці тому

    Very educative video on the circumlocutional language used by both catholic and calvinists and all about an invented narrative.

  • @chasnikisher7006
    @chasnikisher7006 5 місяців тому +6

    Great video once again. Since you have someone watching over the comments could you have them please to look out for and delete the prosperity scam posts?

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 5 місяців тому +1

      Yeah, I've just been reporting them in every video, but it would be nice if they could be moderated. I imagine scam comments don't help the algorithm much

    • @danielcarriere1958
      @danielcarriere1958 5 місяців тому +1

      Its a scam? Awww shucks!

    • @shamelesspopery
      @shamelesspopery  5 місяців тому +3

      Yes, but please feel free to call them out, too! We sometimes miss them. Thanks!

  • @stfclm
    @stfclm 5 місяців тому +1

    The doctrine of predestination creates havoc in the human mind.

  • @bazzy8376
    @bazzy8376 5 місяців тому +2

    Ahh, now I get it. It isn't the title "co-redemtrix" that sticks in their craw. It's applying it to someone who submitted herself completely to cooperating with God's plan of salvation, instead of one who betrayed God. Makes Calvinistic sense.

  • @MiguelMangada
    @MiguelMangada 5 місяців тому

    Love your great channel

  • @penanceixx447
    @penanceixx447 5 місяців тому

    Fantastic video, brother. The hardening of pharaoh's heart analogy to the sun both melting ice and hardening clay blew me away, though of course the real meat of the video on Judas *losing* his Salvation shown by his juxtaposition to Peter - which I think makes them being on opposite ends of the Apostle lists rather poignant, the Christian on whose faith Christ will build his Church and the Christian who will forsake his faith - as both betrayed Jesus but responded differently truly gave me a deeper appreciation of the Gospels.
    I think the Apostle lists detail is poignant also regarding Jesus' teaching in Luke 14:10-11 as you could think of it as God, in his inspiration of Scripture, seating the humble Peter who returned to Jesus in the place of honor and seating the prideful Judas who withdrew into himself in the lowest place.

  • @bombastoid
    @bombastoid 5 місяців тому

    Good video. I think the story of Sampson also applies to this topic and has some parallels to the relationship between Jesus and Judas.

  • @cruznature7545
    @cruznature7545 5 місяців тому +1

    Master class

  • @believe-tk3pz
    @believe-tk3pz 5 місяців тому +1

    Too bad I can only give this video one thumbs-up. It deserves many more.

  • @jeremysmith7176
    @jeremysmith7176 5 місяців тому +2

    If Judas had repented and accepted the offer of God's mercy he would have stood as a strong witness to God's mercy.

  • @dongchanlee9190
    @dongchanlee9190 4 місяці тому

    Another excellent video Joe! Thank you!
    One question I have - if the betrayal of Judas remains an evil act even though it was used by God in His plan of salvation for us and is therefore not to be “celebrated,” why do we “celebrate” the sin of Adam in the Exsultet?
    “O happy fault that earned so great, so glorious a Redeemer!”

  • @davidkupiec
    @davidkupiec 5 місяців тому +1

    I wish God never created me. I am tired of living in fear of going to hell. I am paralyzed by it. I just want it all to end. I hate God for not allowing me to stop existing.

    • @jonmkl
      @jonmkl 5 місяців тому +2

      Why would you live in fear of going to hell? Just seek God, trust him, don’t reject him, and don’t live for yourself or earthly things. It’s literally up to your choice and you have free will to choose.
      God made you and wants to be with you for eternity in unspeakable joy but you’re mad you exist? Come on, man.

    • @555imone
      @555imone 4 місяці тому +5

      Despair (the lack of hope in God's plan to save you out of fear of going to hell) is the last thing that God wants you to feel as a consequence of your sinful nature. God's love goes beyond the gravity of any sin, so I'd suggest you be faithful to Him and try your best, since that's what counts. I understand what you're feeling, it's something most people go through in their life, I surely did multiple times. But then I turn to the Lord and ask Him for help, and abandon myself to His will. Please consider reflecting a little upon 1 Corinthians 10:13, I find verses like this comforting in times of trouble. I'll pray for you, calling on the intercession of the St. Michael the Archangel. I hope any of this will be of help to you

  • @malachi487
    @malachi487 5 місяців тому +2

    So true... it's similar to Protestants (e.g., Ortlund) quoting early Church Father's writings that appear to either support Protestant theology or contradict Catholic doctrine...but when these same Church Fathers clearly write supporting Catholic doctrine they cease to able to read. It's true arrogance at best. The Catholic Church does not claim that it has true understanding of every single bible verse; however, a Protestant (e.g., Stuckey) will argue that their interpretation of the bible is the "end all be all" to my salvation and that the Catholic Church is wrong.

  • @michaelbranham5854
    @michaelbranham5854 5 місяців тому +7

    Jesus Christ chose judas of Iscariot. As a lesson, to teach us, there would be and will always be those within the body of Christ, his Church that would betray Jesus and the Church.

    • @Hope_Boat
      @Hope_Boat 5 місяців тому +1

      Orthodox here. Judas Iscariot didn't make it to the Church. He died before Christ's resurrection.

    • @alisterrebelo9013
      @alisterrebelo9013 5 місяців тому

      ​@@Hope_Boat I think I understand your point, but for clarity, would you agree or disagree that Jesus had the intention to prepare heaven with Judas in it?

    • @Hope_Boat
      @Hope_Boat 5 місяців тому

      @@alisterrebelo9013 God works in mysterious ways His wonders to perform.

    • @alisterrebelo9013
      @alisterrebelo9013 5 місяців тому

      @@Hope_Boat Let me help you out of your new age mumbo jumbo.
      Did Jesus promise Judas a throne in heaven?
      Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. - Matthew 19:28

    • @Hope_Boat
      @Hope_Boat 5 місяців тому

      @@alisterrebelo9013 Yes Jesus offered that to the twelves Apostles but Judas abandoned his apostolate:
      _And they prayed, “Lord, You know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two You have chosen to take up this ministry and apostleship, which Judas abandoned to go to his rightful place._ Acts chapter 1
      Tell me what is this rightful place of Judas according to you? The throne in heaven to judge the 12 tribes of Israel?
      If so where is sitting saint Mathias?
      _Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles._

  • @TheLlamaHaze
    @TheLlamaHaze 3 місяці тому

    I've always understood the hardening of Pharaoh's heart in light of Romans 1 and the idea of God giving the unrepentant sinner over to a depraved mind. Initially, Pharaoh hardens his own heart, then it's passive and ambiguous, then God is hardening Pharaoh's heart. Because of Pharaoh's repeated and deliberate unrepentant faithlessness, God made a public example of him for both His people and for the surrounding nations to see.

  • @AscendingAdventures
    @AscendingAdventures 5 місяців тому +1

    The whole “Judas had no choice” reminds me of the gnostic stuff.
    Edit: guess I called it….

  • @butrflyspirit
    @butrflyspirit 4 місяці тому

    I don't know other religions but this is truly shocking teachings.

  • @barrytanner9778
    @barrytanner9778 5 місяців тому +1

    How are we to know the mind of God? If the act falls into His permissive Will, it will happen with or without you. As a child of God we can choose to act or not act whether it’s good or evil. The gift of the will, natural or supernatural is very powerful.

  • @emilyzlockard
    @emilyzlockard 4 місяці тому

    I’d love to see this episode titled to link it to its cousin (Does Good Friday do anything) and so Reformed folks would see it or respond. Maybe “Reformed Theology replaces Jesus with Judas?” “Why Reformed Theology is Wrong About the Cross” etc. Similar to the Mormon series. These Reformed episodes are great and I’d love to see some responses to them.

  • @rickydettmer2003
    @rickydettmer2003 5 місяців тому

    Also the wax and clay analogy originally comes from Origen in his commentary on Roman’s 👍

  • @MrJarredification
    @MrJarredification 2 місяці тому +1

    Also, Judas was promised one of twelve thrones to judge the tribes of israel in heaven, he was given the body and blood and told this is broken and shed for YOU. If Jesus will was for Judas to end up in hell, was he lying when he did these things?

  • @AllanKoayTC
    @AllanKoayTC 5 місяців тому +2

    you asked for a similar difficult verse as the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. the one that immediately came to mind was 1 Samuel 16: 14, that says God sent an evil spirit to torment King Saul.

  • @nicholasjagneaux
    @nicholasjagneaux 5 місяців тому +1

    Joe, can you address how our (Catholic) use of "O Felix Culpa" to describe the Original Sin of Adam and Eve different from Sproul's "glorious deed" to describe Judas' sin?

  • @tacoman759
    @tacoman759 5 місяців тому +4

    Hey Joe, love your channel, this is truly great work. Question that has maybe been answered but I'm relatively new to your channel, couldn't all sola scriptura debate be settled by the fact that new testament canon hadnt been decided in the 1st century and the "early christians" that Protestants try to emulate wouldn't have had the same scripture that they rely so heavily on? the earliest christians would have had to follow teachings and tradition passed on by Jesus through the apostles and wouldn't that end the sola scriptura debate?

    • @michaelbeauchamp22
      @michaelbeauchamp22 5 місяців тому +3

      It should, but alas, it is of no avail in most debates

    • @Maranatha99
      @Maranatha99 3 місяці тому

      @@tacoman759 Think of something: Why did it take so long to canonize the NT? bc there were certain books where believers disagreed, BUT THERE WERE ALSO BOOKS WERE ALL AGREED from the beginning, like the 4 Gospels, Acts, & most of the epistles. Those books, that started to circulate as soon as they were written, were enough and plenty to have the message of Jesus & the apostles.
      And, ALSO.... those books were not written for church leaders but for every believer.

    • @tacoman759
      @tacoman759 3 місяці тому

      @@Maranatha99 that doesn’t make sense tho, the gospels and acts weren’t written or subsequently widely distributed for decades after Jesus’ death. Paul is writing to churches that likely wouldn’t have written gospels or anything it would’ve just been teaching and tradition passed down from the apostles and such. These original Christians would’ve had no chance to believe in sola scriptura because there was no such thing

    • @Maranatha99
      @Maranatha99 3 місяці тому

      @@tacoman759 2 Timothy 3, 16 & 17.
      1st century Christisns knew that God communicated to people whom He inspired, & that not every religious teaching or book came from God.
      They would have never thought that the Christian doctrine would not be developed little by little & through the teachings of men who lived scattered in different places of the Romsn Empire

    • @tacoman759
      @tacoman759 3 місяці тому

      @@Maranatha99 nobody’s arguing if scripture isn’t good, of course it is, and useful just as Paul says. But Paul also says literally 2 verses before to “continue in what you have learned and firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it”, is that part just not important? Also how do u know that the scripture he’s talking about is the New Testament as we know it? Yeah it’s perfectly inspired but as Paul is writing 2nd Timothy it’s not like the Christians at the time are reading and practicing his words in 2nd Timothy, unless the whole Christian world had a very large telescope to read him writing in real time

  • @timharbison5582
    @timharbison5582 3 місяці тому

    Hi, ive really been enjoying your content, i randomly found you a couple weeks ago. Historically I've always aligned more with Protestant, at least in joining a church (i know this is a spectrum, ultimately i just care about what the bible says and doing my best to align to God). But Ive come to respect a lot of what Catholicism brings and have enjoyed digging back into history to understand the Church. One of my main issues has always been the pope, however. Example that comes to mind is his stance on gay marriage a few years ago. Massive instituitonal stance that to me is pretty critical, and if the head is excercising that type of power, its hard to rectify. What are your views on the pope and the implications for an entire church body?

  • @rickydettmer2003
    @rickydettmer2003 5 місяців тому

    Who else noticed that loves rocking that shirt when he’s on camera😎.

  • @mcollinss116
    @mcollinss116 4 місяці тому

    35:33 So Jim Hardbaugh! 😂

  • @williammadison6796
    @williammadison6796 5 місяців тому

    Another good analogous example to "God hardening pharoah's heart" is 2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21 surrounding King David and the census he took.

  • @BuffetNeverDies
    @BuffetNeverDies 5 місяців тому +2

    28:51 “we live in a society”

  • @BensWorkshop
    @BensWorkshop 5 місяців тому

    The Gospels were written after the resurrection when everyone knew Judas was a ... well... Judas. That would explain his position in the list. Good episode.

  • @Hakufuichi
    @Hakufuichi 5 місяців тому +1

    Judas's role could have played out in another way, had he chosen to do so.
    Suppose that after the betrayal, Judas came to Christ, admitted his guilt, and begged forgiveness. Judas could have provided a great example of redemption.
    Instead, he realized what he had done, and Instead of coming to Christ, he sealed his fate by suicide, forever branding himself as the great betrayer.
    Judas had before him a path to redemption and salvation or eternal damnation. By his own free will, he chose the latter.

  • @Koyasama
    @Koyasama 5 місяців тому

    A strong video, Joe, and what it does it does well. But I wish you'd taken it a step further, especially given that you even used the word "create" in the title, because that's where the major problem lies. It's good and true to say that God knows everything, and permits free will while accounting for freely chosen acts in His plans. But as the omnipotent and omniscient creator, God _set up_ that situation in the first place. He crafted Judas, in perfect knowledge of how His creation would freely act once turned loose, and it's difficult to see how that's any different from an outright decree on God's part.
    It's a concern in particular with regards to Judas and the Antichrist (2 Thes 2), and the general application is horrific. I'm certain there's something wrong with my thought process here, but I can't figure out what it might be.

  • @JLuVeeGee
    @JLuVeeGee 5 місяців тому +1

    I view Judas as one of the greatest victims in the Bible, and someone that God loves.
    God saw Judas' entire life and yet still brought him into being. Because the addage is true for God "Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.". He loved Judas and therefore he still created him and let him make his own choices.
    I also, personally believe, that Judas was so distraught, so repulsed by his own actions, so repentant of his betrayal that his killed himself through great sorrow. And I believe that God, in his ever-lasting love, granted mercy to Judas. Maybe that's not true. But I believe that it is.
    I believe this still aligns with "then he would have been better not to be born.". I think this was a little bit of a hyperbolic statement foreseeing the tragedy and horror that Judas experienced after his betrayal.

  • @jake6132
    @jake6132 5 місяців тому

    Joe, thank you for this episode. I am Catholic and as I listened to you break down the problem that many Calvinist preachers glorifying Judas's betrayal, this question came to my mind: are we Catholics doing the same thing as these pastors when we say "O Happy Fault!"? Are we unnecessarily glorifying the sin that brought the stain of Original Sin to all mankind? Thank you.

    • @suburbanbanshee
      @suburbanbanshee 5 місяців тому +2

      No, it's glorifying the fact that God made a bad thing into a good thing. (It's also a specific type of poetic trope, which would have been very clear to previous generations that studied rhetorical tropes.)

    • @jake6132
      @jake6132 5 місяців тому

      @@suburbanbanshee I see, but that still doesn't answer my question. Isn't that still exactly what Joe is saying about how God used Judas' sin to accomplish his salvific work? In other words, how is what these Calvinist pastors are doing NOT a poetic trope? Thank you.

  • @Christina00nline
    @Christina00nline 4 місяці тому +1

    I really hope that you see this even though it's been 13 days since you posted. I'm not a troll, I'm a new Catholic and I very much struggle with predestination. You asked multiple times for Bible verses, so I really hope you intend to do a follow-up. One Bible verse that you did not address was the one in Romans 9. I can't tell you how much heartache and confusion this verse has given me over the years. So Romans 9:11 says "before they had yet been born or done anything good or bad in order that God's elective plan might continue"... "he loved Jacob but he hated Esau" so before they made any choices or did anything at all. He goes on further in verse 18 to say consequently, "he has Mercy upon whom he wills and he hardens whom he wills." Kind of goes against what you said earlier... The kicker for me though is verse 19 through 23. You literally said in your video 'how could he possibly find some fault in a person he made that way?'... And yet here it asks the same question but answers it differently than you did and then it says in verse 21. "Or does the potter not have a right over the clay to make out of the same lump one vessel for a noble purpose and for another ignoble purpose?" Does this not literally refute everything you said, that he does in fact make some people for a noble purposes for wrath and destruction?