Andy, the clear anodizing of the panel frame is a fair insulator. That’s why that “earthing washer” has the little points to punch through. Hard black anodizing is the best and is frequently used just for that purpose. If can be very hard 70Rc and up to .015” thick. Go ahead and put an ohm meter to a piece.
Ah found this one, I know it's abit older now but... When you have finished your battery racking project it would be great to revisit this and include the grounding of the batteries, inverter, charge controller etc make it a beginner friendly all-in one guide. Oh btw awesome video as usual P.s. I grease mine where the wires are terminated under the panels to keep the damp off and corrosion where it makes contact. Amongst my periodical maintenance of my solar sheds I havey earth rod in the dampest part of the garden next to my shed to increase conductivity to the ground and in summer have a small pump that waters the ground around it once a week.
Thanks Glenn. I have used star washers now to overcome any corrosion. They bit into the aluminium quite a bit and make really good contact even after many years.
If you want to protect against lightning you need more than just grounding. Lightning arrestor and antennas around your panels that are grounded are needed. Grounding does help with static charges that could hurt your inverter or mppts. And good job understanding the need to use the WEEB (grounding) washers.
Grounding is for safety in case panels short to frame, not for lightning. He has plenty of trees much taller than his garage in the area, a strike to the panels there would be extremely unlikely.
@@teardowndan5364 Yeah, lightning at his location is probably not much of a risk. Yes, that is also true for grid tie inverters that have gfci tripping if a conductor touches a grounded area. But for MPPT controllers they probably don't do anything if a ground to connection is shorted. The wiring should be fused or sized high enough to handle any shorts too. The main issues come with a partial short that heats up enough to start a fire.
@@jmaus2k When I wrote safety, I meant it as in electrocution hazard: if panels get an internal short to frame and aren't grounded, the frame may be live at max system voltage and in some systems, that can be up to 1000V. In his case, closer to 100V under load and 135V open-circuit.
Hello I really enjoy your videos and find them very informative. One thing that gets me every time is the fact that you wear flip-flops (sandals) going up the ladder, walking on the roof etc. You will get something stuck in your foot or worse, you risk slipping and falling. We want you safe. As a side note, a little webcam will let you monitor the other end …. Useful when pushing cable 😀 Denis from Montréal
GREAT GROUNDING VIDEO OF THE PV MODULES . JUST MOVE THE GROUND STICKER TO THE EARTHING SPOT . BETTER SAFE THEN A DIRECT LIGHTNING STRIKE GOING THROUGH THE SYSTEM . NICE WORK .
Next time (If there IS a next time) you have to pass wires through the conduit, tie some good quality twine to the wire and pull both. This will give you a way to pull the wires next tie.
The video is great showing some of the "how", but not sure I understand the "what, where, and why". Is there another video showing a white board illustration or schematic explaining what is bonded to what and where?
I know there are electrical codes requiring "everything" to be grounded. And that would include the panels. But as a practical matter, would it make any difference? Wouldn't some lightning rods be better practical protection?
Came here to suggest that (glad I read the comments first). Not only lightning rods, but also some of those things (I forgot what they're called) that look like big round frilly wire brushes that bleed-off the static in the surrounding air. Our local Department of Transportation had a couple put up around their building on a hill and their electronics now have a tiny fraction of the down-time they used to have. It looks like something that can be made rather easily and inexpensively too.
Having the panels mounted on the rails is not enough to properly ground them (from a regulation requirement). Every panel has it's own ground/earth spot but to make this all workable they also accept the washers to make a proper connection.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Ah, ok, I thought you were mainly worried about the thunderstorms you mentioned. In my neck of the woods, I'm not aware of such regulations for a garage not tied to the grid. But I forgot that regulations do apply to a business, and your garage is technically a business, so yeah.
Andy we still don't know what is your power output, on the new setup with the additional panels working now. i am dying to know that, even knowing it is autumn there please do an update video. Cheers and I'll have a SPAT as well 😉😉
Ricardo, it's late autumn here and I'm battling with lots of shading due to a low solar angle. Have a look in the description of the video there is a link to the Victron World and the Off-Grid-Garage. You can see how much energy I'm making at the moment. In live!
Better than washing earthers! .... I guess....earthing washers! Haha, I guess they will help prevent the panels from sliding, if they come loose in wind over time, I guess I see why ground them, but is the ground referenced to the a pv polarity? Like neutral and ground in ac power!?.. my stuff is floating in the wind!
I know lots of earthers who need washing. 😜 But seriously, yeah, I'd like to see Andy measure the resistance to ground (any ground) before and after to see what this accomplished.
Hi Andy, i have an important question: why the manual of my inverter/charge controller say don't ground the PV panels? (The inverter is a MPP SOLAR PIP 8 MAX) From the manual: "...To avoid any malfunction, do not connect any PV modules with possible current leakage to the inverter. For example, grounded PV modules will cause current leakage to the inverter..."
@@OffGridGarageAustralia i am reading the same thing in the epever xtra 40A solar charger manual: "...Please, do not connect any PV modules to the ground to prevent current leakage to the charger..." Now i am downloading victron's manuals to read what they say about it
@@zarbonida well, all my panels are connected to the ground anyway through the metal roof. Or do they mean not to ground one cable of the solar (positive/negative)?
052921/1327h PST 🇺🇸 053021/0627h Brisbane. Thanks for the info on Earthing the PV array. Amazing to watch your ascending and descending exercise! I did that too with bad results on hip ligaments. Thanks to 600 mG Ibuprofen. Stay safe. 73s...
Dumb Question Time : On my system I thought I would take the Ground from the panels all the way to the grounding rod , maybe even a separate one . I'm a a little scared of running a lighting rod (ground wire) back into my entire system ground , wouldn't it be safer to do it that way . I have a lot of lighting in my area , people even have wrought iron lighting cages over their houses here.
Wrought iron cages over their houses? Wow, that's hardcore, but I'm intrigued. I've got lots of lightning in my area. I put protectors on all my major appliances, but I've had lightning even fry light switches, so I guess I'm gonna have to spend a lot of money and replace all my breakers with special ones (or maybe attach MOVs to the existing ones).
052921/1338h PST 🇺🇸. I’d recommend separate grounding for PV systems. In any case there’s going to be spurious ‘leakage’ on the grounding cables. The connection to the grounding rod gets deteriorated over a period of time, due to contact with dissimilar metal. Dissimilar, in the sense, the grounding rod is not Cu, but Cu PLATED to mild steel. And over a period of time, the Cu plating gets eroded causing ill effects to the grounding circuit. Due to time and space constraints, it’s impossible to describe the procedure. Please research. There’s a test to check grounding resistance that we often perform every year. Be safe and 73s...
You should use a diferent earth point. O wouldnt conect the solar PV earth to the home earth. Placa them apart on the ground with a distance of até least 3mts apart. Ir you Gave lighning, like you have, ir Will damage your instalation and every eletronics
Hi Miguel that makes sence. You don t want lighting to find all your equipment trough the wire you sepcialy made to protect things. Is there more info some where ? For example Would you ground the panel and a steel roof together in one rot?
That is incorrect. You want ALL to go to the same point which attaches to the ground rod. It makes one complete system. If you have multi ground rods and lightning hits nearby then you have multi points of electrical charge going back through the system.
@@AveRage_Joe ok, you mean there will be a voltage difference between the points and therfore current will flow through the systems. I did not think of that. Is there some where more info on this?
@@AveRage_Joe im sorry but it is not. The panels will act as a lightnig pole. You should not have a lighting structure conected to the home ground. You should always separate those earths. Only conect to the house earth conections if you cant put a separate earth rod for the pv, at least 3m away from the house rod.
What material is isolating the panels from the roof? Unless you have an insulator such as a rubber washer between the panels and the metal shed you do not need separate wires to earth them. You just simply earth the bottom of the shed and the whole system is grounded or if the shed is bolted into the cement then it is already grounded. I would think you could just put a 10cm wire between the rail and roof mount. A good video source for this is: ua-cam.com/video/qNZC782SzAQ/v-deo.html . Especially listen to it at the 19:00 minute time frame. Love the videos and keep them coming. Thank you.
Andy, the clear anodizing of the panel frame is a fair insulator. That’s why that “earthing washer” has the little points to punch through. Hard black anodizing is the best and is frequently used just for that purpose. If can be very hard 70Rc and up to .015” thick. Go ahead and put an ohm meter to a piece.
Ah, great explanation. Thank you.
Ah found this one, I know it's abit older now but...
When you have finished your battery racking project it would be great to revisit this and include the grounding of the batteries, inverter, charge controller etc make it a beginner friendly all-in one guide.
Oh btw awesome video as usual
P.s. I grease mine where the wires are terminated under the panels to keep the damp off and corrosion where it makes contact.
Amongst my periodical maintenance of my solar sheds I havey earth rod in the dampest part of the garden next to my shed to increase conductivity to the ground and in summer have a small pump that waters the ground around it once a week.
That's a great suggestion. I have to change some of the earth wiring of my panel system to comply with the regulations. I'll make a video.
Treppenlift... I think this is how it got invented...
Enjoy your SPAT ;-)
Great video...just remember top zink paint those earth lugs as they will corrode over time.
Thanks Glenn. I have used star washers now to overcome any corrosion. They bit into the aluminium quite a bit and make really good contact even after many years.
Looking good 👍I see you are very professional at what you do that why I enjoy your channel 👍
Great show my good man! Many trips up and down da roof lol 😆 Awesome grounding techniques! Cheers and see ya soon 🌞
Thanks, Dave.
If you want to protect against lightning you need more than just grounding. Lightning arrestor and antennas around your panels that are grounded are needed. Grounding does help with static charges that could hurt your inverter or mppts. And good job understanding the need to use the WEEB (grounding) washers.
Grounding is for safety in case panels short to frame, not for lightning. He has plenty of trees much taller than his garage in the area, a strike to the panels there would be extremely unlikely.
@@teardowndan5364 Yeah, lightning at his location is probably not much of a risk. Yes, that is also true for grid tie inverters that have gfci tripping if a conductor touches a grounded area. But for MPPT controllers they probably don't do anything if a ground to connection is shorted. The wiring should be fused or sized high enough to handle any shorts too. The main issues come with a partial short that heats up enough to start a fire.
@@jmaus2k When I wrote safety, I meant it as in electrocution hazard: if panels get an internal short to frame and aren't grounded, the frame may be live at max system voltage and in some systems, that can be up to 1000V. In his case, closer to 100V under load and 135V open-circuit.
Hello
I really enjoy your videos and find them very informative. One thing that gets me every time is the fact that you wear flip-flops (sandals) going up the ladder, walking on the roof etc. You will get something stuck in your foot or worse, you risk slipping and falling. We want you safe.
As a side note, a little webcam will let you monitor the other end …. Useful when pushing cable 😀
Denis from Montréal
Yes! Stay charge, STAY SAFE...
You should see me working with the chainsaw ;)
But yeah, you're right, just I'm used to wearing these...
I was just thinking it was about time to see a frog 🐸 and break out a Beer 🍺! 😆
Hard to get them on camera now in Winter.
GREAT GROUNDING VIDEO OF THE PV MODULES . JUST MOVE THE GROUND STICKER TO THE EARTHING SPOT . BETTER SAFE THEN A DIRECT LIGHTNING STRIKE GOING THROUGH THE SYSTEM . NICE WORK .
Nice froggy.
Next time (If there IS a next time) you have to pass wires through the conduit, tie some good quality twine to the wire and pull both. This will give you a way to pull the wires next tie.
Dave Poz actually does something like this in his latest video
The video is great showing some of the "how", but not sure I understand the "what, where, and why". Is there another video showing a white board illustration or schematic explaining what is bonded to what and where?
I know there are electrical codes requiring "everything" to be grounded. And that would include the panels. But as a practical matter, would it make any difference? Wouldn't some lightning rods be better practical protection?
Came here to suggest that (glad I read the comments first). Not only lightning rods, but also some of those things (I forgot what they're called) that look like big round frilly wire brushes that bleed-off the static in the surrounding air. Our local Department of Transportation had a couple put up around their building on a hill and their electronics now have a tiny fraction of the down-time they used to have. It looks like something that can be made rather easily and inexpensively too.
Having the panels mounted on the rails is not enough to properly ground them (from a regulation requirement). Every panel has it's own ground/earth spot but to make this all workable they also accept the washers to make a proper connection.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Ah, ok, I thought you were mainly worried about the thunderstorms you mentioned. In my neck of the woods, I'm not aware of such regulations for a garage not tied to the grid. But I forgot that regulations do apply to a business, and your garage is technically a business, so yeah.
What about the two short side rails they will not be grounded...?
Andy we still don't know what is your power output, on the new setup with the additional panels working now. i am dying to know that, even knowing it is autumn there please do an update video.
Cheers and I'll have a SPAT as well 😉😉
Ricardo, it's late autumn here and I'm battling with lots of shading due to a low solar angle. Have a look in the description of the video there is a link to the Victron World and the Off-Grid-Garage. You can see how much energy I'm making at the moment. In live!
Nice video Sir 🙂👍
Thank you.
Better than washing earthers! .... I guess....earthing washers! Haha, I guess they will help prevent the panels from sliding, if they come loose in wind over time, I guess I see why ground them, but is the ground referenced to the a pv polarity? Like neutral and ground in ac power!?.. my stuff is floating in the wind!
I know lots of earthers who need washing. 😜
But seriously, yeah, I'd like to see Andy measure the resistance to ground (any ground) before and after to see what this accomplished.
Great I got entertainment!!!
50 trips) been there)
Is it not enough with one earthing plate for one panel?
You need two for each panel, one for each rail.
Hi Andy, i have an important question: why the manual of my inverter/charge controller say don't ground the PV panels?
(The inverter is a MPP SOLAR PIP 8 MAX)
From the manual: "...To avoid any malfunction, do not connect any PV modules with possible current leakage to the inverter. For example, grounded PV modules will cause current leakage to the inverter..."
No idea, tbh. Never heard of that before...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia i am reading the same thing in the epever xtra 40A solar charger manual:
"...Please, do not connect any PV modules to the ground to prevent current leakage to the charger..."
Now i am downloading victron's manuals to read what they say about it
@@zarbonida well, all my panels are connected to the ground anyway through the metal roof.
Or do they mean not to ground one cable of the solar (positive/negative)?
This was really useful information thanks mate.
No problem 👍
Good video, but the frog made it a great one. Thankyou
Not many around these days. It's too cold for them now...
052921/1327h PST 🇺🇸 053021/0627h Brisbane. Thanks for the info on Earthing the PV array. Amazing to watch your ascending and descending exercise! I did that too with bad results on hip ligaments. Thanks to 600 mG Ibuprofen. Stay safe. 73s...
Andy, you need to get some better foot ware when up on the roof. 😂
That is the best already! 👠
Dumb Question Time : On my system I thought I would take the Ground from the panels all the way to the grounding rod , maybe even a separate one . I'm a a little scared of running a lighting rod (ground wire) back into my entire system ground , wouldn't it be safer to do it that way . I have a lot of lighting in my area , people even have wrought iron lighting cages over their houses here.
Wrought iron cages over their houses? Wow, that's hardcore, but I'm intrigued. I've got lots of lightning in my area. I put protectors on all my major appliances, but I've had lightning even fry light switches, so I guess I'm gonna have to spend a lot of money and replace all my breakers with special ones (or maybe attach MOVs to the existing ones).
052921/1338h PST 🇺🇸. I’d recommend separate grounding for PV systems. In any case there’s going to be spurious ‘leakage’ on the grounding cables. The connection to the grounding rod gets deteriorated over a period of time, due to contact with dissimilar metal. Dissimilar, in the sense, the grounding rod is not Cu, but Cu PLATED to mild steel. And over a period of time, the Cu plating gets eroded causing ill effects to the grounding circuit. Due to time and space constraints, it’s impossible to describe the procedure. Please research.
There’s a test to check grounding resistance that we often perform every year. Be safe and 73s...
What is the reason for earthing the panels. Is it to avoid lightening strike damage?
no its to protect people from shocks from inverters leakage transformer less type
It should protect in both directions. It can also be static charge when the wind blows.
Think you should invest in a roof tool box that stays on the roof 🤣
Solar elevator
@@BischesseHunting Andy needs some kid to be a gopher for him (gopher this, gopher that.) Preferably one who knows not to touch high-voltage stuff.
You should use a diferent earth point. O wouldnt conect the solar PV earth to the home earth. Placa them apart on the ground with a distance of até least 3mts apart. Ir you Gave lighning, like you have, ir Will damage your instalation and every eletronics
Hi Miguel that makes sence. You don t want lighting to find all your equipment trough the wire you sepcialy made to protect things. Is there more info some where ? For example Would you ground the panel and a steel roof together in one rot?
That is incorrect. You want ALL to go to the same point which attaches to the ground rod. It makes one complete system. If you have multi ground rods and lightning hits nearby then you have multi points of electrical charge going back through the system.
@@AveRage_Joe ok, you mean there will be a voltage difference between the points and therfore current will flow through the systems. I did not think of that. Is there some where more info on this?
@@AveRage_Joe im sorry but it is not. The panels will act as a lightnig pole. You should not have a lighting structure conected to the home ground. You should always separate those earths. Only conect to the house earth conections if you cant put a separate earth rod for the pv, at least 3m away from the house rod.
I have two ground points. One at the garage and one at the house.
What material is isolating the panels from the roof? Unless you have an insulator such as a rubber washer between the panels and the metal shed you do not need separate wires to earth them. You just simply earth the bottom of the shed and the whole system is grounded or if the shed is bolted into the cement then it is already grounded. I would think you could just put a 10cm wire between the rail and roof mount. A good video source for this is: ua-cam.com/video/qNZC782SzAQ/v-deo.html . Especially listen to it at the 19:00 minute time frame. Love the videos and keep them coming. Thank you.
I think you need to build a set of stairs up to the roof.
I'm close to that actually 😂