Here's a random video idea - How the onboard cameras of Formula 1 cars evolved overtime? Would be interesting and a topic that nobody really touches upon 👌
As Keiichi Tsuchiya once said: "I drift because it is the more exciting way to get around a corner, not the fastest way." I remember a lot of people back in around ~2004-2010 used to have misconceptions that drifting was actually a faster way to clear corners. With the exception of some super tight hairpins on surfaces like dirt or snow, 9 times out of 10 it's far slower, not to mention very hard on the gearbox, tires, cooling system, and tie rods etc.
@@KitKitChanIsaac Lol, Initial D is not "Drift in every corner", it is Touge, which is a mixture of Drift and Grip, they do not drift if it is not completely necessary (AKA, in very tight curves, which are very common in Mountain Roads).
@@break-beat-sonic in the beginning of the series Initial D put a HEAVY emphasis on drifting, making it seem like it was indeed the fastest way to drive in any situation. In the latter half they move away from that but it’s influence is still pretty strong.
he didn't drift ...he abused slip angle by going past the front tyres grip going almost full lock and catching the grip when he opened the steering again
I was hoping you mention this thing with the aerodynamics of the F1 car. The whole downforce thing stalls in the instant they start to drift the slightest. This is why they lose sudden control over the car when a more serious oversteer occurs. The downforce loss isn't linear to the angle of the car to it's traveling direction.
The physics answer: the contact patch of a tire basically isn't moving in comparison to the road, and the force of static friction (the friction keeping an object still on a surface) is almost always greater than the force of kinetic friction (the force on an object when it is sliding on a surface.) There is usually an ideal "slip angle" where a certain amount of yaw in the car gets the most grip from the rubber. With old bias-ply tires, that slip angle was high. With modern F1 tires (and a loss of downforce when the car isn't pointing in the direction of airflow) results in a very low ideal slip angle.
@@PlatinumAgar Nope, you got that wrong, an F1 car can be rotated like a WRC car with rough engine brake with weight transferring while being downshifting. As you can see there's an engine brake button on the steering wheel of F1 car, so it can still be rotated in moderate amount of angle. Drifting like a WRC car on the hairpin on Monaco can be done with ease, but because of the heat on the rear tires that degrades the tire potential, so F1 racers avoid drifting like that.
@@JohnKickboxing I didn't mean, it couldn't be done nowdays but nowdays because of those factors it would be slower and also lile you said the tire temps and degrading would be worse
@@PlatinumAgar To me, the maneuver of making small or even subtle amount of over steer angle an F1 driver makes, in order to deal with a sharp curve or hairpin, is equal to drifting in WRC. As the engine brake assistance in an F1 car nowadays acts as a handbrake lever in WRC car. 👌
technically, tires have best traction when they are slipping just little bit. They have the most grip right before loosing traction. From what i know, in order to drive at absolute limit, you need somewhere less than 10 degree of slip angle.
The slip angle at peak traction depends hugely on the tire. May be as low as 2 deg, may be much higher, definitely less than 10. For tires/setups with a "gentle breakaway" or "smooth drifting" as Matty called it, there's a plateau where increasing slip angle doesn't reduce grip, then it starts to fall off the more slip angle you put on the tire. The broader this plateau, the more forgiving the car feels. A narrow or peaky traction vs. slip angle curve means a sudden breakaway and snap oversteer. From what I understand F1 tires don't have a broad plateau, but the bigger problem is loss of aero downforce. Aero is designed to work with the car moving forward through the air. When the car starts to move sideways you quickly lose downforce, so you quickly lose grip. There's no way to get the downforce back, and the car swaps ends.
@@bigpicture662 let me preface this by stating "I am not an aerodymicist, automotive engineer, nor otherwise expert in racecar design"... BUT, as ChainBearF1 has pointed out (e.g. here: ua-cam.com/video/PuVLGkZah4A/v-deo.html) if there was something to be gained overall from it the big teams (Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren) would be doing it. So my intuition is no, it would not be efficient. My guess would be due to increased drag for marginal gains in downforce at higher slip angles, or reduced overall downforce.
@@gcranston83 Nice summary :). To get aero grip at an angle is going to cost something, be it additional weight, re-distrivution of aero devices leading to loss of straight ahead grip, or increased drag. Just not worth it, or as you say, they'd be doing it. Plus, if everyone started drifting they would have more chance of colliding, so FIA would probably ban it.
"They have the most grip right before loosing traction", so "they grip until they don't". Of course. The answer is NO, the best traction is with 0 slip. That margin is for safety, so when it slips is controllable. You could theoretically make materials go just up to the limit, but then is all or nohing.
Depending on the type of "drifting" being talked about, the D1 type drifting is not faster destroys the engine, gearbox, and the tires as well. Slip angle or 4 wheel drift is hard on the tires and may make you faster until the tires start to go or overheat and wear out. Plus the aero kits on these cars go from grip to spin very quickly.
You can kind of power through a corner with angle slide in F1 but that doesn't qualify as a drift, even rally cars don't really drift a lot, they are still trying to maximize grip despite the lack of friction. Too much wordplay involved, i guess.
F1 cars have that high rotational/yaw rate since most of their mass is near the center of gravity. I thought that WTF1 would touch on that point a little more. Drift cars tend to have their mass away from the CoG to create a more manageable rotation/yaw rate.
@@briand8090 just to add to what you said, the only place drifting is a speed tactic, is in rally. Because there is very little traction in traditional rally, the main method of changing course in rally racing is inertial weight transfer, where switching the direction of the car involves changing its attitude over uneven and loose surfaces. Trying those tactics on a grippy surface would slow the car down, relative to the direction of travel.
Just wanted to say that even though I essentially knew the answer (which is to say, "because it's not faster") before I came into this video, I was curious to see how you'd express the details of why it isn't faster in Formula 1 vs. certain other forms of racing where it is. I think you did a really great job of explaining it. I do find myself somewhat curious just how much downforce F1 cars have (I know it's a truly staggering amount, but I don't know the actual numbers, or how they compare to previous generations of F1 cars with different aero rules). So that might make a subject to cover sometime.
the amount of downforce doesn't have a fixed number, it changes depending on the speed you are going at, turbulence in the air (which is why cars are slower around turns when behind another car) and even the air pressure (which is why in mexico where the altitude is really high, a high downforce setup is used even though it doesnt need crazy amounts of downforce.) hope this helps
Nah bro, I then bridged in my mind from Bottas’ Monaco slide to Kimi’s overtake in 2016 on Nasr (by accident though) then onto Kvyat in Turkey, then as last, 2016 Brazil Max Verstappen
@@Guardrail9Boy what is the difference between those terms then? drifting vs sliding and what is "normal" oversteer if it's different from these 2? honest question, I have no idea, all my limited racing knowledge comes from the dirt games :D
@@KrumpusPlunk the difference is drifting its kicking the ass end waay out of grip and pretty much relying on the front tires to keep it going the right way, apart from tire wear your alignments have to be set up to grip at those angles and loads. Where "sliding" in racing is attempting to rotate the car and point it towards the exit, and you wont see drivers roasting the tires into a smoke show doing it, theyre dancing on the line of actually breaking loose and just pushing the tire a little harder than it can handle. and usually unless your looking at the right angle. You wont even see it. trail breakin is also pointing the car inwards to your apex. I think for terminology theyre trying to minimize their slip angle. Theres probably another relation between the weight transfer and angle of the car that can help save the front tires alittle at the cost of rears. For reference look into how mid engine cars are driven around a track, not really the same but will show this kind of relationship almost to an extreme (with just far too many posts on it because mr2), where throttling to rotate the car and exit a corner dramatically transfers weight front to rear and as long as they dont understeer (oversteer still a big risk of the maneuver) can result in beautiful, fast exit. Afaik they do use techiniques like this in f1 but without slipping the tire.
Four wheel drift? You mean spinning out? Pretty sure what rally cars do is called powersliding. Nothing any motorsport does is named after drift. Drift made a few terms specific only to drifting.
Downforce (or the same but opposite direction force, lift) has nothing to do with gravity though. If you had a pressurized area in zero-g, a wing would still generate downforce/lift (which one depends on which side you consider "up").
Of course, but gravity also creates a downforce. downforce can occur through both airpressure and gravity. You don't need both at the same time but both do contribute. Although mentioning gravity seems a bit pointless because we only race on earth where every car has the same basic gravity downforce.
Lmao Kimi passing Alonso was an "accidental slide" and not a drift... And I didn't see any smoke coming from the tyres when seeing bottas oversteering on that Monaco hairpin so...
@@car_rar Not all drifts involves smoke. A lot of the more amateur level of drifters that use Nissan 240SX's or Toyota AE86's (because they think they're Tak) don't often smoke. Slide = drift.
@@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance nope sliding is different than drifting, in sliding the car is going sideways, meanwhile in drifting the car is going at an angle.
He forgot about Nelson Piquet, in Hungary, in 1986. Jackie Stewart described it as "If I hadn't watched it and someone had told me, I wouldn't have believed. It was like a Boeing 747 making loops. I never thought it was possible".
@rodriboi I don't know. But back in the early days they raced on crazy tracks, which where extremely dangerous. So I'm almost certain it's not spa. Does the Nordschleife have a steeper climb? I don't know...
Since F1 cars drive on a solid surface and they have lots of downforce and mechanical grip, Rally cars also have lots of downforce and mechanical grip, But because they're on loose surfaces they need to rotate to turn but F1 cars don't need to induce extra rotation-unless it's turkey because that was on a “loose” surface
@@shawnramito4863 damn straight lmao, getting involved in all this all races are equal stuff was an advertisement move. They should start off by making the teams equal.
@@car_rar a spec series....they were on the right track, until the engine freeze that only helps RB and Merc powered robots. And I miss pre 2016 Hamilton....when he wasn't so boring and activist
Thanks, nice video. F1 Cars are not drifting for obvious reasons like you stated, but one thing I found a bit off is that you are saying they are actually planted to the road. But as far as I know, even though they do not drift, they do actually slide with all four wheels, they do overcome the force and in a lot of corners, they do slide (you can even see it in the videos). Also losing backend grip is not as sudden and uncontrolled as you say, drivers do actually intentionally cause a bit of oversteer to make tight corners or to get out of late turn in. I know it's a video about drifting but I think these things are worth mentioning since cars are definitely not 100% planted and they do make use of sliding and oversteer.
I was just going to post this. Yeah, they don't "drift", but they definitely use slip/yaw angle to rotate the car. Especially when they are pushing really hard.
That's what I was thinking from the start. I was waiting for Matt to mention trail braking and the slip angle this creates to actually go faster through the corner... and therefore technically F1 cars do "drift" to go faster, even if its only around 6 to 10 degrees of "drift/slip angle".
That's sliding the rear... They rotate the car precisely on its axis while turning allowing them to take much sharper turn without slowing down to take the turn using only the steering, it's a driving technic. Hope it made sense.
Not strictly true Fernando Alonso used to do it in the Renault (2005-2006) with great success, but it was very minor and playing off the strengths and weaknesses of that particular car.
Can you do a video on, how team pits are determined? like how they decide which team gets the first put or which team gets the last pit lane? I'm thinking is first come first serve?
with a wrong explenation aswell. downforce > weight of car doesnt mean youre is not gonna drift. Downforce + weight of car (mass*gravity) > centrifugal force is the reason.
You forgot to mention the fact that the coefficient of static friction is higher than the coefficient of kinetic friction. This means that you can place more torque to the ground and hold corners with the wheels not over spinning
Sometimes f1 can still be seen sliding a little to properly rotate into the corner, many pilots are talking about changing brake bias for certain corner to help the rear to slide in position for exit or next corner faster. it' not really a drift but it's something on the very limit between grip and drift. Anyway in rally you don't only drift for better exit, it's just that on loose surface it's pointless to brake in straight line since you are going to lose grip anyway, so it's just better to drift the car to use the side of the tire for brake, and it's way more easy to control a car when you put it sideway than when it suddely lose traction. On tarmac you drive exactly how you will drive on circuits (always going for grip, wide entry/apex/wide exit) but sometimes some roads and turns are so tight that even on tarmac it's better to slide a little to be faster.
From an aerodynamic point of view drag (aka air resistance) isn't the thing that makes lift (or aerodynamic downforce for cars) possible, it's something that comes from the viscosity of the fluid and the wake that the lift produces (i am over-oversimplifying), so drag is a consequence of multiple factors but it's not the thing that we attribute lift to
One of the simplest reasons is a very basic thing you learn in engineering. Static friction can be as high as twice the sliding friction. So you want the surface of the tire that is touching the track to be static, which is the definition of rolling without sliding
@@andretrevelin9042 This is common knowledge for anyone over the age of 9 years old dude. This video was a desperate grab for views and is utterly useless.
I never knew WTF1 would stoop this low. I always knew they made videos for people new to F1 but now they are making videos for straight up 7 year olds.
Small correction: the down force is solely aerodynamic, not gravity. While gravity helps push a car down, the term down force tends to refer to the aero component of all the downward forces specifically, not gravity. This is why down force bigger than weight is worth mentioning. If weight (=force acting on an object because of gravity) was part of the down force, any additional down force, say by the spoiler of the back of a rally car, would make the "down force" more than the weight of the car.
A major reason is the rear engine configuration that will skid the car off the track uncontrollably while drifting. We have seen many F1 cars pirouetting and sliding off when hitting the curbs on improper timing. Even Porsche Carrera GT slides uncontrollably trying to drift.
There's also the question of "lateral aerodynamic element stall," which is to say, the F1 front and rear wings are designed with endplates that would entirely inhibit laminar flow at a lateral slide of any type. It's one of the reasons why F1 car slides are so tricky to regain control of. As soon as the car slides sideways, the airflow goes from laminar to turbulent, and the car loses probably 90+% of its downforce.
They should strip car's aero by 35% on wet races. Turkey really showcased who was able to manage tires and find the grip, if you add the dynamic of controlling the car as well it would make an amazing race. Imagine Suzuka. omg.
And what about the miniscule oversteer, some drivers use to turn the car more quicker in the corner, aint that some form of drifting as well? Its not as obvious as in Ralley but its still the same concept - > turning the car for the next section to accelerate earlier in the corner
A comparison would have been good. Like the view of an F1 car on full throttle flying through the S's at Silverstone, and a car drifting through there.
You covered the vehicle reason, but there's two good driver-centric reasons as well. First off, F1 cars develop *insane* Gs in turns, and drifting would only increase G-load on the already at-max drivers. Second is visibility. if you're drifting, you're paying more attention to the side view out your HALO than straight on, meaning you aren't paying attention to your wheel display. And when you're sliding sideways, a split second to look down at your wheel can spell disaster.
Even modern rally cars do not drift as much as older one's. On tarmac stages they do not drift at all (unless you want to lose time). A clear example of that shift was in the mid-2000's where you had the old guard Mitsubishi and Subaru Vs the young guns of Citroen. The Citroen with Loeb driving wasn't drifting at all in full tarmac rally stages and on gravel it was minimal compared to Mitsubishi's and Subaru's. (exceptions are tarmac stages on gravel tires) Furthermore scrubbing the tires causes loss of speed because of thermodynamics and in addition will cause the tires to overheat thus losing their grip even if we set tire wear to zero.
Well they kind of do slide a bit through the corners. When a tire is giving you the maximum performance, they are sliding. The side slip angle. If you see videos in slow motion, they are never going through corners on rails. They slide. So that is drifting.
Simplest answer - drifting is inefficient use of tractive force. Sideways motion instead of forward, you want to maximize the tractive force and the tyre grip available.
To drift one needs to lose grip, no grip = no traction = no acceleration. Like Prost one said it doesn’t matter how fast you enter a corner, what matters is how fast you exit it.
There's slip angle through a corner which could be called drifting if you really wanna stretch the definition of "drifting", but it's so minute on an F1 car you barely notice it when watching.
No you summed it up quite well. Grip, downforce and tire maintenance are the main reasons. Plus it’s impractical and does nothing in terms of shortcut or cutting corners if you will
Another example is Peugeot 208T16 at Pike's Peak in 2013, the car was (and is still) the fastest petrol to climb and no drift at all because of HUGE wings
Because if they do then everyone would would be calling Bono
Bonooo my tyres are gone x20
Bono my tires Bono dude my tyres gone
Bonooooooooo ohhhhhhh my tires are gone
Here's a random video idea - How the onboard cameras of Formula 1 cars evolved overtime? Would be interesting and a topic that nobody really touches upon 👌
This
There’s an amazing idea
Hi Yuwan
oh hello there yuwan
also great idea lol
Great idea
Imagine if everyone was just tandem drifting through Monaco
Eurobeat intensifies
Fast & Furious: Monaco Drift
Man that would be quite a sight
I think it's actually faster to drift round the Monaco hairpin than to drive normally. Ruins ur tyres tho
@@danohaffey4205 vb did it in qualy but sadly it was t his hot lap prob would have been a word record
Lol if drivers drifted cars, Lewis would be complaining about his tyres from Lap 1
Was intrigued by your username so clicked on your channel. Nice content
Cool channel
So true lol
Do you mean 1st corner? :D
Actually it would be since formation lap
The only one that go faster than the others, even to the point to pass Nasr is kimi in Hungary 2016
Drif
Or the VB drfit around monaco hairpin because if that was his hot lap it would prob be a world record around monaco
@@jarppa2603 to
and nelson piquet on ayrton senna in hungary I believe
Don’t forget Massa on Senna
As Keiichi Tsuchiya once said: "I drift because it is the more exciting way to get around a corner, not the fastest way."
I remember a lot of people back in around ~2004-2010 used to have misconceptions that drifting was actually a faster way to clear corners. With the exception of some super tight hairpins on surfaces like dirt or snow, 9 times out of 10 it's far slower, not to mention very hard on the gearbox, tires, cooling system, and tie rods etc.
they watched too much Initial D
@@KitKitChanIsaac Lol, Initial D is not "Drift in every corner", it is Touge, which is a mixture of Drift and Grip, they do not drift if it is not completely necessary (AKA, in very tight curves, which are very common in Mountain Roads).
@@KitKitChanIsaac lmao there's super tight corners on touge so yeah they drift
@@jordanrobshaw1406 yeah they drift to go fast in tight corners and look cool
@@break-beat-sonic in the beginning of the series Initial D put a HEAVY emphasis on drifting, making it seem like it was indeed the fastest way to drive in any situation. In the latter half they move away from that but it’s influence is still pretty strong.
The why don’t series: Videos about questions we all know the answer to but we still watch.
Not if you are new to F1 or motorsports in general
@@jairoaugusto2533 well, the question on why f1 cars don’t drift is a question that can be answered without f1 knowledge. It’s slower and inefficient
enter: Fernando Alonso’s epic driving style
he didn't drift ...he abused slip angle by going past the front tyres grip going almost full lock and catching the grip when he opened the steering again
@@pure_at he is also the master of saves, he can easily catch back his car...
@@aloter1680 brazil 2012
@@mrconsistency3235 yeah
@@mrconsistency3235 Spa Raidillon 2013 😉
I was hoping you mention this thing with the aerodynamics of the F1 car. The whole downforce thing stalls in the instant they start to drift the slightest. This is why they lose sudden control over the car when a more serious oversteer occurs. The downforce loss isn't linear to the angle of the car to it's traveling direction.
The physics answer: the contact patch of a tire basically isn't moving in comparison to the road, and the force of static friction (the friction keeping an object still on a surface) is almost always greater than the force of kinetic friction (the force on an object when it is sliding on a surface.)
There is usually an ideal "slip angle" where a certain amount of yaw in the car gets the most grip from the rubber. With old bias-ply tires, that slip angle was high. With modern F1 tires (and a loss of downforce when the car isn't pointing in the direction of airflow) results in a very low ideal slip angle.
Why don't Formula 1 cars drift to go faster ?
Me : F1 is not freaking Mario Kart!
Dacha 44:Haha Mario Kart theme in free practice go *BRUH BRUH BRUH!!*
F1 race stars is
@@KitKitChanIsaac haha 😂
You forgot about Picquet overtaking Senna on the outside while drifting all four wheels and still having time to flip him the bird. Ah those eighties.
Back in those days they didn't have much downforce and tyres weren't as grippy
@@PlatinumAgar Nope, you got that wrong, an F1 car can be rotated like a WRC car with rough engine brake with weight transferring while being downshifting. As you can see there's an engine brake button on the steering wheel of F1 car, so it can still be rotated in moderate amount of angle. Drifting like a WRC car on the hairpin on Monaco can be done with ease, but because of the heat on the rear tires that degrades the tire potential, so F1 racers avoid drifting like that.
@@JohnKickboxing I didn't mean, it couldn't be done nowdays but nowdays because of those factors it would be slower and also lile you said the tire temps and degrading would be worse
@@PlatinumAgar To me, the maneuver of making small or even subtle amount of over steer angle an F1 driver makes, in order to deal with a sharp curve or hairpin, is equal to drifting in WRC. As the engine brake assistance in an F1 car nowadays acts as a handbrake lever in WRC car. 👌
Next video: Why don’t F1 cars fly?
underrated comment
@@herewegoagain7403 Not really because it's a bit, just a bit of hate in this comment, and fans don't like that, it is rated just ok.
@@drgs38 damn dude, we can’t take a joke in 2021 or something?
@@herewegoagain7403 kk, i don't have good sense of humor, I admit
le YEET
If this is what it takes to get me through the off-season so be it
Okay as next I wanna "why do F1 cars have rocketships at their back"
Why do F1 cars race forwards
Why do F1 car exist
@@sempaidesu that's actually good, why was the championship created in the first place, why didn't it continue like before
why does f1 cars have 4 wheels?
Why do F1?
Easy: you’ll kill the tyres too quick and get worse exists
Yeah, but to start about 2016 Kimi on Felipe Nasr.
1:25 I like it how evreyone as a proper serious mask and then there is Daniel who wears a mask with a smiley face on it XD
technically, tires have best traction when they are slipping just little bit. They have the most grip right before loosing traction. From what i know, in order to drive at absolute limit, you need somewhere less than 10 degree of slip angle.
The slip angle at peak traction depends hugely on the tire. May be as low as 2 deg, may be much higher, definitely less than 10. For tires/setups with a "gentle breakaway" or "smooth drifting" as Matty called it, there's a plateau where increasing slip angle doesn't reduce grip, then it starts to fall off the more slip angle you put on the tire. The broader this plateau, the more forgiving the car feels. A narrow or peaky traction vs. slip angle curve means a sudden breakaway and snap oversteer. From what I understand F1 tires don't have a broad plateau, but the bigger problem is loss of aero downforce. Aero is designed to work with the car moving forward through the air. When the car starts to move sideways you quickly lose downforce, so you quickly lose grip. There's no way to get the downforce back, and the car swaps ends.
@@gcranston83 would it be efficient to create aero device for cornering with more slip angle? or is it just not beneficial enough to develop?
@@bigpicture662 let me preface this by stating "I am not an aerodymicist, automotive engineer, nor otherwise expert in racecar design"...
BUT, as ChainBearF1 has pointed out (e.g. here: ua-cam.com/video/PuVLGkZah4A/v-deo.html) if there was something to be gained overall from it the big teams (Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren) would be doing it. So my intuition is no, it would not be efficient. My guess would be due to increased drag for marginal gains in downforce at higher slip angles, or reduced overall downforce.
@@gcranston83 Nice summary :). To get aero grip at an angle is going to cost something, be it additional weight, re-distrivution of aero devices leading to loss of straight ahead grip, or increased drag. Just not worth it, or as you say, they'd be doing it. Plus, if everyone started drifting they would have more chance of colliding, so FIA would probably ban it.
"They have the most grip right before loosing traction", so "they grip until they don't". Of course.
The answer is NO, the best traction is with 0 slip. That margin is for safety, so when it slips is controllable. You could theoretically make materials go just up to the limit, but then is all or nohing.
Title: WhY dOnT f1 cArs dRifT to gO faSteR?
Engineers doing their best to improve grip: are we a joke to you?
Thing is, the chassis engineering effort needed in Formula D or DMEC are quite close to gt racing or rally
Also, thanks WTF1 for the shoutouts on Twitter, really appreciate you guys
Depending on the type of "drifting" being talked about, the D1 type drifting is not faster destroys the engine, gearbox, and the tires as well. Slip angle or 4 wheel drift is hard on the tires and may make you faster until the tires start to go or overheat and wear out. Plus the aero kits on these cars go from grip to spin very quickly.
I had my hopes up for a moment thinking I would see a video about slip angle and yaw on F1 cars.
me too
You can kind of power through a corner with angle slide in F1 but that doesn't qualify as a drift, even rally cars don't really drift a lot, they are still trying to maximize grip despite the lack of friction. Too much wordplay involved, i guess.
F1 cars have that high rotational/yaw rate since most of their mass is near the center of gravity. I thought that WTF1 would touch on that point a little more. Drift cars tend to have their mass away from the CoG to create a more manageable rotation/yaw rate.
@@briand8090 might be more accurate to say that poorly CoGed cars tend to unbalance more, which is how drifting began.
@@briand8090 just to add to what you said, the only place drifting is a speed tactic, is in rally. Because there is very little traction in traditional rally, the main method of changing course in rally racing is inertial weight transfer, where switching the direction of the car involves changing its attitude over uneven and loose surfaces. Trying those tactics on a grippy surface would slow the car down, relative to the direction of travel.
Just wanted to say that even though I essentially knew the answer (which is to say, "because it's not faster") before I came into this video, I was curious to see how you'd express the details of why it isn't faster in Formula 1 vs. certain other forms of racing where it is. I think you did a really great job of explaining it. I do find myself somewhat curious just how much downforce F1 cars have (I know it's a truly staggering amount, but I don't know the actual numbers, or how they compare to previous generations of F1 cars with different aero rules). So that might make a subject to cover sometime.
the amount of downforce doesn't have a fixed number, it changes depending on the speed you are going at, turbulence in the air (which is why cars are slower around turns when behind another car) and even the air pressure (which is why in mexico where the altitude is really high, a high downforce setup is used even though it doesnt need crazy amounts of downforce.) hope this helps
Am I the only one who thought of Bottas' drift at the monaco hairpin when the picture showed? yes? okay
Nah bro, I then bridged in my mind from Bottas’ Monaco slide to Kimi’s overtake in 2016 on Nasr (by accident though) then onto Kvyat in Turkey, then as last, 2016 Brazil Max Verstappen
Damn bro haha good one😂
"smooth drifting" is basically just sliding or creating oversteer on purpose
Exactly that's sliding or controlled slide if you may
@@Guardrail9Boy what is the difference between those terms then? drifting vs sliding and what is "normal" oversteer if it's different from these 2? honest question, I have no idea, all my limited racing knowledge comes from the dirt games :D
@@KrumpusPlunk the difference is drifting its kicking the ass end waay out of grip and pretty much relying on the front tires to keep it going the right way, apart from tire wear your alignments have to be set up to grip at those angles and loads. Where "sliding" in racing is attempting to rotate the car and point it towards the exit, and you wont see drivers roasting the tires into a smoke show doing it, theyre dancing on the line of actually breaking loose and just pushing the tire a little harder than it can handle. and usually unless your looking at the right angle. You wont even see it. trail breakin is also pointing the car inwards to your apex. I think for terminology theyre trying to minimize their slip angle. Theres probably another relation between the weight transfer and angle of the car that can help save the front tires alittle at the cost of rears. For reference look into how mid engine cars are driven around a track, not really the same but will show this kind of relationship almost to an extreme (with just far too many posts on it because mr2), where throttling to rotate the car and exit a corner dramatically transfers weight front to rear and as long as they dont understeer (oversteer still a big risk of the maneuver) can result in beautiful, fast exit. Afaik they do use techiniques like this in f1 but without slipping the tire.
Isn't that what they call four wheel drift?
Four wheel drift? You mean spinning out? Pretty sure what rally cars do is called powersliding. Nothing any motorsport does is named after drift. Drift made a few terms specific only to drifting.
Downforce (or the same but opposite direction force, lift) has nothing to do with gravity though. If you had a pressurized area in zero-g, a wing would still generate downforce/lift (which one depends on which side you consider "up").
Of course, but gravity also creates a downforce. downforce can occur through both airpressure and gravity. You don't need both at the same time but both do contribute. Although mentioning gravity seems a bit pointless because we only race on earth where every car has the same basic gravity downforce.
You forgot Finnish people exist.
*Bottas intesifies*
@@toonix1015 More like Kimi intensifies.
Lmao Kimi passing Alonso was an "accidental slide" and not a drift... And I didn't see any smoke coming from the tyres when seeing bottas oversteering on that Monaco hairpin so...
@@car_rar Not all drifts involves smoke. A lot of the more amateur level of drifters that use Nissan 240SX's or Toyota AE86's (because they think they're Tak) don't often smoke. Slide = drift.
@@lorddrac_dontaskmetodance nope sliding is different than drifting, in sliding the car is going sideways, meanwhile in drifting the car is going at an angle.
He forgot about Nelson Piquet, in Hungary, in 1986. Jackie Stewart described it as "If I hadn't watched it and someone had told me, I wouldn't have believed. It was like a Boeing 747 making loops. I never thought it was possible".
A quick answer to the title: Because real life isnt Need for Speed
Quick answer but you are wrong: for rally cars it's faster to drift, in formula 1 its slower to drift.
@@xmlthegreat quick answer, you can't read, title is about why F1 cars dont drift, not why rally cars do😁
I have a video idea: what is the steepest climb/decent f1 has ever raced at?
@rodriboi no
@rodriboi I don't know. But back in the early days they raced on crazy tracks, which where extremely dangerous. So I'm almost certain it's not spa.
Does the Nordschleife have a steeper climb? I don't know...
@@hansfabiankoeger8657 maybe he should make a video about it, or maybe just a top 5/10
@@hansfabiankoeger8657 no
Because drifting like what the movies show is actually a lot slower except for some scenarios in rallying. video done
"It sometimes was the fastest way, especially in the 1950's."
Piquet in '86 at the Hungaroring: Hold my beer!
Ummmm, I don’t think anybody was asking this lol.
@MrNoob actually I didn’t
lots of non-f1 fans do ask this question though, Ive been asked it countless times by others
@@user-de4cq6uk6l Really? I feel like most people would understand why race cars don’t drift.
I actually asked this when watching and comparing WRC to F1.
@@josh132gt3 then why did you comment in the first place if you didnt watch
Since F1 cars drive on a solid surface and they have lots of downforce and mechanical grip, Rally cars also have lots of downforce and mechanical grip, But because they're on loose surfaces they need to rotate to turn but F1 cars don't need to induce extra rotation-unless it's turkey because that was on a “loose” surface
You forgot one reason: Drifting is fun, and fun is forbidden in F1!
Uh.. FYI formula drift exists.. you can watch that for fun. Hate to break it to you but F1 is all about grip and one team and one driver dominance
@@car_rar and lullaby races and taking the knee🚮
@@shawnramito4863 damn straight lmao, getting involved in all this all races are equal stuff was an advertisement move. They should start off by making the teams equal.
@@car_rar a spec series....they were on the right track, until the engine freeze that only helps RB and Merc powered robots. And I miss pre 2016 Hamilton....when he wasn't so boring and activist
@@car_rar I know there's Formula Drift, my comment was meant as a joke.
0:20 Mazepin in f1 2021: And I took that personally.
Slip: Am I a joke to you?
Thanks, nice video. F1 Cars are not drifting for obvious reasons like you stated, but one thing I found a bit off is that you are saying they are actually planted to the road. But as far as I know, even though they do not drift, they do actually slide with all four wheels, they do overcome the force and in a lot of corners, they do slide (you can even see it in the videos). Also losing backend grip is not as sudden and uncontrolled as you say, drivers do actually intentionally cause a bit of oversteer to make tight corners or to get out of late turn in. I know it's a video about drifting but I think these things are worth mentioning since cars are definitely not 100% planted and they do make use of sliding and oversteer.
POV: you already know why F1 cars don't drift but you watch the video anyway
1:26 everyone: holding their helmet
Kimi: I don’t need onee
Maybe it's not full drift but F1 cars do have a slip angle, so that's technically sliding.
I was just going to post this. Yeah, they don't "drift", but they definitely use slip/yaw angle to rotate the car. Especially when they are pushing really hard.
That's what I was thinking from the start. I was waiting for Matt to mention trail braking and the slip angle this creates to actually go faster through the corner... and therefore technically F1 cars do "drift" to go faster, even if its only around 6 to 10 degrees of "drift/slip angle".
The explanation is quick, simple, and also understandable. Thanks WTF1
Why Don't Formula 1 Cars drive without wheels To Go Faster?
Weight reduction
@@joelfarley9305 bro!
1:53 bruh, that one got me lmao, just subscribed sir
Well, they sort of drift when they have a bit of slip angle around corners.
That's sliding the rear... They rotate the car precisely on its axis while turning allowing them to take much sharper turn without slowing down to take the turn using only the steering, it's a driving technic. Hope it made sense.
@@car_rar Yes, so they "sort of drift"
Not strictly true Fernando Alonso used to do it in the Renault (2005-2006) with great success, but it was very minor and playing off the strengths and weaknesses of that particular car.
This is something my dad would ask and genuinely not know the answer
Downforce depending on air resistance and gravity? Fz=0.5*rho*S*(v^2)*Cz
I can’t see any air resistance or gravity in it
I demand to know the origin of this question
Can you do a video on, how team pits are determined? like how they decide which team gets the first put or which team gets the last pit lane? I'm thinking is first come first serve?
Is this really a question that needs a 3 minute long video to answer?
with a wrong explenation aswell. downforce > weight of car doesnt mean youre is not gonna drift. Downforce + weight of car (mass*gravity) > centrifugal force is the reason.
@@DaKobaa Gotta factor in mechanical grip from the tires as well, with no grip downforce is useless
You forgot to mention the fact that the coefficient of static friction is higher than the coefficient of kinetic friction. This means that you can place more torque to the ground and hold corners with the wheels not over spinning
Is this title for real?
Sometimes f1 can still be seen sliding a little to properly rotate into the corner, many pilots are talking about changing brake bias for certain corner to help the rear to slide in position for exit or next corner faster. it' not really a drift but it's something on the very limit between grip and drift.
Anyway in rally you don't only drift for better exit, it's just that on loose surface it's pointless to brake in straight line since you are going to lose grip anyway, so it's just better to drift the car to use the side of the tire for brake, and it's way more easy to control a car when you put it sideway than when it suddely lose traction.
On tarmac you drive exactly how you will drive on circuits (always going for grip, wide entry/apex/wide exit) but sometimes some roads and turns are so tight that even on tarmac it's better to slide a little to be faster.
Wow hmm I wonder why
From an aerodynamic point of view drag (aka air resistance) isn't the thing that makes lift (or aerodynamic downforce for cars) possible, it's something that comes from the viscosity of the fluid and the wake that the lift produces (i am over-oversimplifying), so drag is a consequence of multiple factors but it's not the thing that we attribute lift to
Mostly because they're bad and can't break the laws of physics to do so. I can drift in Mario Kart
One of the simplest reasons is a very basic thing you learn in engineering. Static friction can be as high as twice the sliding friction. So you want the surface of the tire that is touching the track to be static, which is the definition of rolling without sliding
Is this a question that really needs to be answered?
Yes because not everyone knows the basics of motorsport. Specially people that are new to F1.
@@andretrevelin9042 This is common knowledge for anyone over the age of 9 years old dude. This video was a desperate grab for views and is utterly useless.
Fans:woa! Sick drift
Driver:I’m losing so much time right here
(1:55) actually, Im not subsribed because I just unsubscribed.
same
You didn't mention geometry! :( F1 cars aren't built to be stable drifting. But they do use rear slip/drift to go faster, just to a tiny degree.
Why don't cars with incredibly high mechanical grip drift. A question nobody asked.
All I can imagine is DMEC Round 3 where James Deane battles Pawel Borkowski. Man, that battle was toight
I never knew WTF1 would stoop this low. I always knew they made videos for people new to F1 but now they are making videos for straight up 7 year olds.
Ronnie Peterson once said he could do a lap in a track without even moving the steering wheel, but that wouldn't be faster or gentle to the equipment
This is quite a stupid question tbh. I'm pretty sure wtf1 audience never even asked about this :/
It's almost like there are people out there that aren't F1 fans yet still watch WTF1 for entertainment.
@@andretrevelin9042 You don’t have to be a fan of anything to know this. This is common knowledge for anyone over the age of 10
@@sarahwood8943 Some people really ain't car guys you know...they ain't expected to know
@@sarahwood8943 Lol what planet do you live that everyone including kids know everything about cars? lol
Not to mention, the F1 cars often don't have the steering lock to keep control of a slide of any angle
Reason 1: They Cant.
0:11 you got me there
You guys are really running out of video ideas...
1:25 Love Daniel's mask. Looks like a class photo, where there's always one class clown pulling a face.
Content fail here lads.
The video was great but i think maybe u can make another one covering f1 modern smooth drifting aka rotation
Small correction: the down force is solely aerodynamic, not gravity.
While gravity helps push a car down, the term down force tends to refer to the aero component of all the downward forces specifically, not gravity. This is why down force bigger than weight is worth mentioning. If weight (=force acting on an object because of gravity) was part of the down force, any additional down force, say by the spoiler of the back of a rally car, would make the "down force" more than the weight of the car.
A major reason is the rear engine configuration that will skid the car off the track uncontrollably while drifting. We have seen many F1 cars pirouetting and sliding off when hitting the curbs on improper timing. Even Porsche Carrera GT slides uncontrollably trying to drift.
There's also the question of "lateral aerodynamic element stall," which is to say, the F1 front and rear wings are designed with endplates that would entirely inhibit laminar flow at a lateral slide of any type. It's one of the reasons why F1 car slides are so tricky to regain control of. As soon as the car slides sideways, the airflow goes from laminar to turbulent, and the car loses probably 90+% of its downforce.
Love the fact that he knew that we knew but still decided to go ahead and make a video on it
Daniels mask was gold
They should strip car's aero by 35% on wet races. Turkey really showcased who was able to manage tires and find the grip, if you add the dynamic of controlling the car as well it would make an amazing race. Imagine Suzuka. omg.
Fangios Era of F1 had the engines mounted in the front where as a mid-engine layout is more prone to snap oversteer
In very rare circumstances, F1 cars can also drift and gain time. I remember Hamilton doing it in Silverstone quali once.
And what about the miniscule oversteer, some drivers use to turn the car more quicker in the corner, aint that some form of drifting as well? Its not as obvious as in Ralley but its still the same concept - > turning the car for the next section to accelerate earlier in the corner
F1 cars aren't designed to drift, but the best overtake on F1 history was made by Piquet on Senna while drifting.
The next gen F1 cars should have a drifting style. It would be so great to see!
We need a F1 drift league
A comparison would have been good. Like the view of an F1 car on full throttle flying through the S's at Silverstone, and a car drifting through there.
We need Turkey 2020 every year just to see some Kansei dorifuto action
You covered the vehicle reason, but there's two good driver-centric reasons as well. First off, F1 cars develop *insane* Gs in turns, and drifting would only increase G-load on the already at-max drivers. Second is visibility. if you're drifting, you're paying more attention to the side view out your HALO than straight on, meaning you aren't paying attention to your wheel display. And when you're sliding sideways, a split second to look down at your wheel can spell disaster.
you missed the most beautiful overtake in f1, piquet on senna, drifting.
Another reason: saving tyres
2:27 Smooth Operatorrrrrr
Even modern rally cars do not drift as much as older one's. On tarmac stages they do not drift at all (unless you want to lose time). A clear example of that shift was in the mid-2000's where you had the old guard Mitsubishi and Subaru Vs the young guns of Citroen. The Citroen with Loeb driving wasn't drifting at all in full tarmac rally stages and on gravel it was minimal compared to Mitsubishi's and Subaru's. (exceptions are tarmac stages on gravel tires)
Furthermore scrubbing the tires causes loss of speed because of thermodynamics and in addition will cause the tires to overheat thus losing their grip even if we set tire wear to zero.
Well they kind of do slide a bit through the corners. When a tire is giving you the maximum performance, they are sliding. The side slip angle. If you see videos in slow motion, they are never going through corners on rails. They slide. So that is drifting.
Simplest answer - drifting is inefficient use of tractive force. Sideways motion instead of forward, you want to maximize the tractive force and the tyre grip available.
To drift one needs to lose grip, no grip = no traction = no acceleration. Like Prost one said it doesn’t matter how fast you enter a corner, what matters is how fast you exit it.
There's slip angle through a corner which could be called drifting if you really wanna stretch the definition of "drifting", but it's so minute on an F1 car you barely notice it when watching.
I have a question. How does the cockpit of the car not get filled with water during the rain?
No you summed it up quite well. Grip, downforce and tire maintenance are the main reasons. Plus it’s impractical and does nothing in terms of shortcut or cutting corners if you will
Another example is Peugeot 208T16 at Pike's Peak in 2013, the car was (and is still) the fastest petrol to climb and no drift at all because of HUGE wings