Islam destroyed its own "Golden Age" - Neil deGrasse Tyson & Steven Weinberg
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Steven Weinberg and Neil deGrasse Tyson describe how the "Golden Age of Islam" collapsed under islamic dogma and has not recovered intellectually or scientifically to this day. V. S. Ramachandran adds an extra cherry on top.
Edited together from the following clips, mostly from the Beyond Belief 2006 conference.
• 2. Steven Weinberg (2 ...
• 12. Neil deGrasse Tyso...
• 13. Neil deGrasse Tyso...
• 32. V.S. Ramachandran ...
• Neil deGrasse Tyson Le...
Hamid al-Ghazali was a Persian, not an Arab. It is worth considering that the, so called, Islamic Golden Age, was actually the last efflorescence of an ancient Persian civilization, and not the sudden sprouting of a new Islamic civilization, and that once ended it was never repeated.
I would say, as smart and a great orator Neil Degrass Tyson is, he has been wrong and incorrect in his knowledge of history and culture is average at best and blatantly incorrect at worst. I wish he does a better job in getting out of his own over-confidence.
Al-Chwarizmi was Persian as well.
Thanks for pointing that out.@@Nuss-j4s
@@Callingnonehe’s incredibly uneducated & uncultured on a multitude of topics yet speaks with great confidence and people eat it up without revising because of his “accolades & intelligence”
It wasn’t purely Persian at all though. It was Arab, North African, Egyptian & Andalusian as well so idk what you’re talking about.
None of those scientists were arabs. They were all Persians. Persia had already a great civilization before being invaded by Arabs and continued to have great minds, astronomers, mathematicians, alchemists, etc after the invasion. They were publishing their work in Arabic. Baghdad and part of Iraq were part of Persia back then. The origin of Islam, Saudi Arabia, never introduced any scientists to the world. Today, Iranians are making the same contributions through universities in western countries. There are always Iranian names among renowned professors from any science department in any reputable university or research institute in the west!
There were Arabs too along with Persians. Please do your research.
Hrishikesh Menon Oh please do tell me some of the really notable Arab scientists as well, or just 2, or just 1. I'll wait!! Yeah there were none! I suggest that YOU should do some research!! The ones not from Iran are mostly born in the occupied Spain of the time and even they (which can't really be identified as completely Arabs) were never as significant as the Iranian scientists! Nice try tho!
Viva Freedom it's really sad how many in the world don't realize there is no such thing as Islamic science or philosophy but really Iranian Science and philosophy in disguise!
Iran is still the bastion of hope in the Islamic world
Cath Robilliard we don't want anything to do with that Virus. We're done with Islam! Done for good!
I guess Neil didn't hear that "Arabic numerals" were taken from the Hindus of India (Edit: I just saw the ending of the video after writing this.), nor that Persians did many if not most of the "Arabic" science. (Nothing against Arabs - although I have something against Islam - but sorry, it's true.)
thank your for that info, missing the point of the argument however. thanks how ever for the history
Rationalific or you are too worried about trying to one up someone smarter than you to realize that isn't the point of this
Rationalific actually you are wrong, Persians didn't do most of the scientific work. I don't know why people keep saying that. Use goggle next time.
Good point. I would also add that Muslim of that period never took the credit, we all know it was Indian numerals, even the zero.
You're right, but that's not the point.
What a tragedy! Greatness suppressed, preventing generations of brilliant people from contributing to the scientific world.
inbred pagans usually are not that brilliant
Once christian people did the same thing, stop altering the reality, im not muslim but be realistic cmon
The Vatican didn't officially apologize for its treatment of Galileo until a few decades ago. And I'm not sure they had anything to do with the big bang theory. But certainly, they haven't stood in the way of science for a long time, while Muslim authorities continue to do so.
@@bxdanny Muslim authorities want good science.
@@davidpardo7878 But Muslims still do it, in 2020, then have the audacity to say "Islam is the world's fastest growing religion".
Yes, Islam destroyed its own 'Golden Age' and we in the west are doing the same with our cultural marxism. Both of these events although many years apart have the same cause: A closed mind due to rigid ideological thinking.
Zero was invented by the Babylonians, Myans and the Indians... all independently.
True that my Sir!!
I bet the Sumerians too, they did quite a lot of administration related mathematics, managing trade, warehouses, goods, on a massive scale etc, as did Egyptian scribes. Any culture who does a lot of mathematics finds reason to invent a zero, imho.
ANd you would know how, MAGAT
@JSavic Ancient Babylonian Number System Had No Zero
blogs.scientificamerican.com/roots-of-unity/ancient-babylonian-number-system-had-no-zero/
as far as I know they had not
It's seems like you have hatred towards Arabs.
These persons know nothing.
What about the Mongols destroying 'medarassa' (school of that time) and throwing books in the rivers? If Al-Ghazali have bad opinions doesn't mean he is to blame. I don't think he ever wrote anything like that in the book. I don't think these people ever read book of Al-Ghazali.
I like how everyone agree with him and applaud them. For what ? You say in today media they will be considered islamophobic. But didn't they just said bad and misleading thing about Al-Ghazali. Let's not forget how they ignore the suffering of the Muslim because of the Mongols.
He says that if the Mongol destruction of Bagdad was to blame then Isalm's golden age would return with the empires return. IT DID NOT! You cannot continue to blame the mongols when you now have the internet!
@Dad *Bissmillah
Stop lying to yourselves
Need i remind you how Salah Al Din burned tens of thousands of books written by the scientists of the Fatimid Caliphate
Need i remind that all of the Scientists muslims are proud of today were considered infidels and atheists in their time by the islamic scholars...many of them faced oppression, had a lot of their books burned and the work of their lives destroyed, and needless to say many faced a horrible death.
Your last Caliphate, the Ottoman Caliphate lasted 4 centuries.. didn’t create anything of value and left no legacy for humanity but new torture and execution methods..and famine and poverty and genocides in the lands it occupied.
@@claudiaxander
Wow some scientific analysis right there
@@adonissalameh1746
Lying to himself? That's your strongest argument a lie? do some research first also the scientific work from around the world were preserved by the Muslims , all of what you are talking about is just lies with no examples or references while ignoring their great work in chemistry medicine algebra astronomy...
Arabic words pre-date Islam. Many of the regions that are currently Islam were not so in olden times.
islam is not a fucking race so good point
Tarek Chamas what's your fcking point. you say the same fcking thing on a lot of comment. pls elaborate
And ?
What's your point ? XD
I think it is said that the language appeared on the fringes of the Roman Empire. That the first Muslims originated from there rather than in the Mecca-Medina region.
The Golden age of Islam was when they adopted Greek culture and went away from Islam
Yeah, the golden age of Islam happened before the population in the middle east was even majority muslim.
😂😂good joke it’s like you say North Korea adopted American culture
@libyan loyal Your comment doesn't make any sense and it doesn't hide the fact that the above statement is true.
@henke518 The golden age of Europe came about for the same reason. Caused by more intellectual and scientific progress that was mainly possible due to the weakening influence of christianity.
Starting with the renaissance all the way through the enlightenment and beyond.
Benny lol that's what they're trying to do today, and what guns do they use to conquer? They use other people's technology to destroy them, ugh the shit is crazy
1. It wasn't an "Islamic Golden Age," it was a "Persian Golden Age."
2. If the world goes to more sustainable energy (solar, wind, electric, etc.) sources, the oil producing Arab/Muslim states are doomed, since it takes _science_ to create and innovate in these areas.
Well, it has affected parts of the Arab world, but persia was the center.
Oh this is the clip where Tyson propagated the "our God is the God who named the stars" myth.
SpitshineSneakers I'm confused - what exactly is the myth? Did President Bush not say that, or that the arabic names are false?
1. Bush never said those specific words, the actual quote is "The same Creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today."
2. It wasn't even in reference to 9/11, it was the 2003 space shuttle disaster.
Source: thefederalist.com/2014/09/16/another-day-another-quote-fabricated-by-neil-degrasse-tyson/
Thank you for the trivial input ... But Mr Tyson did nail it for Ghazali and the influence he had on islam, the only point he was making . Again thank you for addressing prob B .
I'm aware that what I said was off-topic, I was simply stating that I had heard about this clip before for an entirely different reason, but hadn't seen it until now.
SpitshineSneakers I appreciate the info. Non-infowars info is always refreshing in today's climate of constant butthurt.
Would it be safe to say that Algebra- or at least the familiar form of algebra that is taught in high schools-was a medieval Islamic innovation?
I believe it arose out of Islamic scholars,using the tools of Greek Aristotelian logic,to understand,clarify,generalise and develop the theoretical structures laid out in the Indian mathematical treatises (written on palm-leaf and composed in Sanskrit language verse),on numbers ,number theory and calculation.
It was created originally by Hindi, then muslims copied it
With the same logic all scientific discoveries would be colored by the particular religion of the area where they were made.
We don't say Dodekatheistic Aristotelian Mathematics, or Christian Laws Of Motion
When you say algebra by stressing the “GE” syllable and roll the r slightly it definitely sounds like an Arabic word.
so many expert historians in the comment section :O
"some scientists were hostile to relgion, some were not religious and some were quite religious" sounds like a better model than religion since these scientists did not want to behead each other.
Apostasy isnt punishable by death.
I actually like Niel Degrasse Tyson, and I think he's right more often than not, but when he talks about Islam or the "Islamic golden age" a lot of the things he says tend to either be partial truths with key elements conveniently left out or just utter falsehoods.
The Bringer of Salt yeah.
In this instance you recognize Tyson's errors because you have some familiarity with the subject. Most people will not. His smooth, confident voice is very convincing and they are lulled into believing Tyson's fictions are fact.
His very inaccurate history on the Islamic Golden Age is not an anomaly. The above video also contains Tyson's account of Bush's 9-11 speech. Did you know that story is also a complete fiction? Bush's actual 9-11 speech was a call for tolerance and inclusion. It was delivered from a mosque. Sean Davis blew the whistle on Tyson's Bush and Star Names story in 2014 and after a great deal of publicity Tyson was forced to admit his error and apologized to Bush.
Most of Tyson's stories on Newton are also addled nonsense. As well as his claims on Copernicus. As a general rule of thumb when Tyson's criticizing religion he is usually using invented history.
Tyson is also a source of misinformation when it comes to math and physics.
@@HopDavid, LOL!
@@musiclover9361 It's interesting that Tyson often delivered his fictions to large audiences of self proclaimed skeptics. Beyond Belief, TAM6 were two of them.
Year after year after year. Did Dawkins notice? Nope. Neither did Shermer, Krauss, Harris, Novella, or James Randi. Not a peep from any of these "skeptics". Well, that's not completely true. Novella objected to Tyson's schtick on idiot doctors, correctly noting that Tyson was clueless how a prognosis was actually delivered.
But none of them objected to Tyson's Bush and Star Names fiction. Or his false histories regarding Newton and Ghazali. Skeptics, my ass. Just like most people they will swallow bull shit if it seems to support their favorite prejudices.
Tyson likes to say scientific literacy empowers you to know when someone is full of shit. And here we have the spectacle of Tyson leaving shit stains on the bibs of the Who's Who list of celebrity New Atheists.
@@HopDavid, I have no idea what 'New Atheists (sic)' are, unless 'New' is intended to denote 'vocal'. Tyson is not wrong about star-naming or al-Ghazali.
World's greatest scientists, religious experts, historians and artists reside in the UA-cam comment section.
@Akif Awakened, you are absolutely correct, and I am going to attest to it by my own expertise, and I will challenge any western scientist or any PHD to show me if they can meet the amount of reading I done in 30 year Just when computer technology came about to consumers, here I go, please world, google how many printed pages in 230 GB, a come forth with your BS and let see whose BS is going to stink, you may have a piece of paper that notes you have a PHD or Your call yourself a Scientist.....
@@creativeyardpostsign2083 If science was a reading contest, you would be our hero.
@@worfoz , I am taking your comment as a sarcastic One.
I do not like scientist who want to prove ALLAH wrong period.
I consider scientist who study and research intangible matter philosophers and look what some scientist did, they came up and fabricated so many unnatural diseases and scientist killed more people than you can imagine, and in actuality science is reading contest, scientist read other people findings so they can either copy cat, approve or disapprove :) Lat but not least, show me what scientist invented my friend, "Human Have Yet To Invent a Darn Thing" and They Will Never Be able to invent shit, they all copycat what has already been created by the creator, and remember that the Creator taught Adam "L-ASMAA-E-KULLAHAA" everything :) by the way, what happened to Voyager 1?
@@creativeyardpostsign2083 I do not like scientist who want to prove ALLAH wrong period.
I know, but do YOU know what science is and what we do?
alla as the creator of everything, they proved that to be a lie
even alla as the creator of earth is exposed by scientists as a myth
Adam and Eve, nice Sumerians stories from the bible but wrong as well.
We scientists do not worship your alla, we seek the kind of knowledge that serves mankind.
Like how to upgrade your machine, how to create better ones, how to improve their safety, all kinds of knowledge you´ll never find in your quran.
so your accusations about scientists being mass murderers only proves how paranoid, hostile, arrogant and ignorant you are about science
why do you use this scientific creation internet, I asked you. Your answer?
Because you hate it.
so much hatred....
@@creativeyardpostsign2083 respect the people who created your internet
or stop musing it
They are *Indian* *numerals* .🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳😊😊😊😊
One thing they could have mentioned, and I'll forgive them for having a bias towards Science, was that the Islamic world of the time preserved Greek achievements in medicine, developed them and helped to spread the to Europe.
There wasn't only greek achievement. there was also other innovations, like what ibn sina, al razi and al-zahrawi were able to do. they contribute a lot to medicine and surgery.
Not really the last Abbast empire khalfa was having a music party while the Mongols started thier invasion and destroyed books, burn buildings killed scientists, people... Ect
It's all because of his poor management and leadership
This whole comment section is full of philosopher's and historians I see
And your another one I presume?
When do we look at the last statement? Talking about Indian numerals, we see a huge truth here.
It was not Islamic invention but Islamic appropriation of other things through trade.
What is science dad?
I don't know my son, we are muslim. 😂
We are better than you
_W I T C H C R A F T_
Arya Bhatta wasn't from the middle East, he also wasn't a Muslim and yes, he invented the number Zero. read up Neil.
Actually some misinterpretation happened by Tyson in interpreting "Incoherence of Ph...". what Ghazali meant by manipulation of number : is Arithemancy not Mathematics. (Arithemancy is hoax & not branch of maths). in calculating Zakat one need mathematics. & idea that God is cause doesn't contradict the idea of laws present in nature. In fact, it supports this idea. because laws can only be if there's creator to create it. what Ghazzali meant that God is not just cause of events but also cause of cause. Meaning he's cause of laws that govern universe. & this doesn't contradict idea that laws exist in nature but instigates us to know more God's will. I think Ghazzali is just taken as scapegoat as it was easy as hewas coinsidently born near 11th century.
Indeed. Ghazali never wrote that math is the work of the devil.
Nor did Islamic innovation stop with Ghazali. There were many mathematicians and scientists in the centuries following Ghazali. The father of symbolic algebra was born more than 3 centuries after Ghazali's death.
Tyson is a source of misinformation.
I am thankful to V. S. Ramachandran for pointing out this major misnomer surrounding "Arab Numerals". I know it doesn't affect the math but one should give the credit where it is due.
FYI decimal zero much of the algebra was borrowed knowledge by Arabs from India
This "golden" period in question largely coincides with the second dynasty of the Caliphate or Islamic Empire, that of the Abbasids, named after Muhammad’s uncle Abbas, who succeeded the Umayyads and ascended to the Caliphate in 750 AD. They moved the capital city to Baghdad, absorbed much of the Syrian and Persian culture as well as Persian methods of government, and ushered in the "golden age."
This age was marked by, among other things, intellectual achievement. A number of medieval thinkers and scientists living under Islamic rule, by no means all of them "Moslems" either nominally or substantially, played a useful role of transmitting Greek, Hindu, and other pre-Islamic fruits of knowledge to Westerners. They contributed to making Aristotle known in Christian Europe. But in doing this, they were but transmitting what they themselves had received from non-Moslem sources.
Three speculative thinkers, notably the three Persians al-Kindi, al-Farabi, and Avicenna, combined Aristotelianism and Neoplatonism with other ideas introduced through Islam. Greatly influenced by Baghdad’s Greek heritage in philosophy that survived the Arab invasion, and especially the writings of Aristotle, Farabi adopted the view - utterly heretical from a Moslem viewpoint - that reason is superior to revelation. He saw religion as a symbolic rendering of truth, and, like Plato, saw it as the duty of the philosopher to provide guidance to the state. He engaged in rationalistic questioning of the authority of the Koran and rejected predestination. He wrote more than 100 works, notably The Ideas of the Citizens of the Virtuous City. But these unorthodox works no more belong to Islam than Voltaire belongs to Christianity. He was in Moslem culture but not of it, indeed opposed to its orthodox core. He examples the pattern we see again and again: the best Moslems, whether judged by intellectual or political achievement, are usually the least Moslem.
The Moslem mainstream of this time, on the other hand, emphasized rigid Koranic orthodoxy and deployed Greek philosophy and science solely to buttress its authority. "They were rationalists in so far as they fell back on Greek philosophy for their metaphysical and physical explanations of phenomena; still, it was their aim to keep within the limits of orthodox belief." But when the thinkers went too far in their free inquiry into the secrets of nature, paying little attention to the authority of the Koran, they aroused suspicion of the rulers both in North Africa and Spain, as well as in the East. Persecution, exile, and death were frequent punishments suffered by the philosophers of Islam whose writings did not conform to the canon.
On the other side of the Empire, in Spain, Averroës exercised much influence on both Jewish and Christian thinkers with his interpretations of Aristotle. While mostly faithful to Aristotle’s method, he found the Aristotelian "prime mover" in Allah, the universal First Cause. His writings brought him into political disfavor and he was banished until shortly before his death, while many of his works in logic and metaphysics had been consigned to the flames. He left no school.
From Spain the Arabic philosophic literature was translated into Hebrew and Latin, which contributed to the development of modern European philosophy. In Egypt around the same time, Moses Maimonides (a Jew) and Ibn Khaldun made their contribution. A Christian, Constantine "the African," a native of Carthage, translated medical works from Arabic into Latin, thus introducing Greek medicine to the West. His translations of Hippocrates and Galen first gave the West a view of Greek medicine as a whole.
The "golden age" of Islamic art lasted from AD 750 to the mid-11th century, when ceramics, glass, metalwork, textiles, illuminated manuscripts, and woodwork flourished. Lustered glass became the greatest Islamic contribution to ceramics. Manuscript illumination became an important and greatly respected art, and miniature painting flourished in Iran. Calligraphy, an essential aspect of written Arabic, developed in manuscripts and architectural decoration.
In the exact sciences the contribution of Al-Khwarzimi, mathematician and astronomer, was considerable. Like Euclid, he wrote mathematical books that collected and arranged the discoveries of earlier mathematicians. His "Book of Integration and Equation" is a compilation of rules for solving linear and quadratic equations, as well as problems of geometry and proportion. Its translation into Latin in the 12th century provided the link between the great Hindu mathematicians and European scholars. A corruption of the book’s title resulted in the word algebra; a corruption of the author’s own name resulted in the term algorithm.
The problem with turning this list of intellectual achievements into a convincing "Islamic" golden age is that whatever flourished, did so not by reason of Islam but in spite of Islam. Moslems overran societies (Persian, Greek, Egyptian, Byzantine, Syrian, Jewish) that possessed intellectual sophistication in their own right and failed to completely destroy their cultures. To give it the credit for what the remnants of these cultures achieved is like crediting the Red Army for the survival of Chopin in Warsaw in 1970! Islam per se never encouraged science, in the sense of disinterested enquiry, because the only knowledge it accepts is religious knowledge.
As Bernard Lewis explains in his book What Went Wrong? the Moslem Empire inherited "the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle east, of Greece and of Persia, it added to them new and important innovations from outside, such as the manufacture of paper from China and decimal positional numbering from India." The decimal numbers were thus transmitted to the West, where they are still mistakenly known as "Arabic" numbers, honoring not their inventors but their transmitters.
Furthermore, the intellectual achievements of Islam’s "golden age" were of limited value. There was a lot of speculation and very little application, be it in technology or politics. At the present day, for almost a thousand years even speculation has stopped, and the bounds of what is considered orthodox Islam have frozen, except when they have even contracted, as in the case of Wahabism. Those who try to push the fundamentals of Moslem thought any further into the light of modernity frequently pay for it with their lives. The fundamentalists who ruled Afghanistan until recently and still rule in Iran hold up their supposed golden age as a model for their people and as a justification for their tyranny. Westerners should know better.
While i find this interesting, the real meat for me is what leads to the fall of an empire/nation-state/tribe/group (insert any community definition).
tribe->nation->empire->decadence->failure->tribe...repeat is there something inherit to too much success makes a mess of everything? Is there a truth to life being easy is bad for the human moral state? Curious to hear anyones thoughts on this.
Aside:
We laud people for their great works, but should be cautious of lauding them for their self-serviced nature, while be thankful if beneficial to the group of humanity.
To all foriegners over here before fighting over who discovered what please look at Kerala school of mathematics and astronomy. This school in ancient India known for some mathematical research. Not well known to many. For those who boast about Pascal triangle go and see Varahamihira. And algebra lovers go and see what actually Descartes sign and assuming it is true go and see sea mirror of circles and what is Fan fa. See even about Sangaku the Japanese mathematics work. We Asians never the credit even when we discovered and name was taken by Greeks. Even China had many mathematics work other than Fan fa.
came here from Muhammad Hijab's video
I sensed the 'nonsense' Neil is trying to prove here when I first saw this video. But I did not realize an academician like him would turn out to be that much ignorant. Or maybe he was imposing these lies intentionally.
Yeah. Mohamed Hijab was wrong too..
@@worlddj1364 an arab history teacher was wrong but neil degrasse was right regarding the islamic golden age?
@@PabloSensei I am an Arab, living in Arabic country, and took Arabic all my life, not any damn a'jami westernized Muslim would claim shit and I would just agree because he looks arab. سلام يا صاحبي.
@@worlddj1364 Just because you are an Arab living in an Arab country, that doesn't mean your point is valid. Mohammad Hijab clearly has more knowledge in this field than Neil Degrasse
@@tahashukur8340 both are wrong
Hijab cited Tusi which is a shia philosopher basically..
I THINK THE PROBLEM LIES IN THE TOPIC. IT SHOULD BE: “MUSLIMS DESTROYED ISLAM’S GOLDEN AGE”, WHICH IS MORE APPROPRIATE TO WHAT THE SPEAKERS ARE TALKING ABOUT.
THE TITLING IS UNNECESSARILY PROVOCATIVE, BUT LISTENING TO THE SPEAKERS, WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY SAYING IS NOT AT ALL WHAT THE TITLE IS SUGGESTING.
2:25 Look dude, I don't know where did you hear about the muslim brotherhood in Egypt calls for an end of education in science but the former president of Egypt Mohamed Morsi which was a member of the Muslim brotherhood had a PhD degree in engineering from The University of Southern California!!
This talk just made me realize that Muslim people, especially represantatives of the Islamic elite (correctly) view the world as under the hegemony of the Western cultural and its technological advance. Some may be painfully aware of how societal progress in the West lead to the unprecedented drop in religiosity. And as religion is the sole base of social consensus in most Islamic societis, even a slight thought of relinquishing traditions causes fear and maybe total rejection of Western ideas. I understand that. What I cannot accept is that despite the obvious failure of those overcome traditions to meet the needs of people in a postmodern world those Muslim elites condemn secular education and by that their people to lack of perspectives and consequently to failure as human beings.
also here's another comment I found under this video by someone called KIRK.
From the wikipedia article "The Incoherence of the Incoherence" - "Al-Ghazali stated that one must be well versed in the ideas of the philosophers before setting out to refute their ideas. Al-Ghazali also stated that he did not have any problem with other branches of philosophy such as physics, logic, astronomy or mathematics. His only axe to grind was with metaphysics, in which he claimed that the philosophers did not use the same tools, namely logic, which they used for other sciences."
If the above is accurate, does it seem likely that Al Ghazali was really against science? That bit about the fire and the cotton has to do with occasionalism vs independent cause and effect. Science is not capable of knowing the ultimate 1st cause. God is the ultimate cause of all things i.e. the absolute explanation, but that does not mean that relative explanations are incorrect - a fact pointed out by Averroes.
Was the theological/ontological point that Al Ghazali made truly to blame for the decline of science Islamic in lands? As far as I'm aware, the consensus of Islamic scholarship was never against any sort against scientific inquiry at any time. But were Muslims nonetheless discouraged to any extent in pursuing such by Al Ghazali's explanation of occasionalism?
The "death to America" chant in Iran is not to Americans but to ordinary Iranians who are culturally modernists ie western culture.
@@object764 No, it's pretty much to America and its government. They're sick of the US intervening in their politics. Look up Operation Ajax.
@@object764 LMAO!!! Ok, sure.
Actually, even most of "Arab" astronomy was imported from India
And Indians imported it from the Babylonians and Persians
@@mig-stallion1359 Nah, india had it longtime ago. Hinduism is one of the oldest religions still in continuation.
Also the persians were mostly influenced by greek culture. this hellenism transported into islam through persians. persians also were in contact with indians so not surprising.
God wanted something to burn, how? Fire usage.
God want rain, how? Clouds getting closer to each other.
The moral of this is everything happens bc of the laws God applied.
actually fire burns because aGod allow it. rain happens because God allowed clouds to come. Come on, it makes sense.
@@theseeker9591 it is coherent and viable. But is not falsifiable. I can create other non falsifiable theories and claims like this
He doesn't say Islam destroyed the Golden Age, he says an influential scholar named Al-Ghazali destroyed the Golden Age. Kind of a big difference!
So one scholar halted the advance of 3 Muslim empires?? How simplistic. It clearly was the Mongolians, who burned everything down & forced the Muslims into a purely military style culture.
It then took 200 yrs to convert & civilize those mongols, but even then, they were only interested in making conquest, so Architecture & military applications were the only fields given patronage.
This led to the improvements on the canon & ignored everything else.
At the same time, on the western front another Muslim Empire in Andalusia was under constant attack from several nations in Europe.
Progress occurs during peace time & above all it needs patronage.
Neither the Indian numerals nor the Math of the Persians, would have become internationalized or even seen the light without Islamic patronage in Baghdad & Andalusia.
Yeah the Indians made great initial advances in Math, but then they stagnated for 100's of yrs & neglected it. What did they do with it over the course of their civilization?
Without the Arabs bringing the almost forgotten Indian mathematicians to Baghdad & paying & applying great Persian minds onto the Indian numerals we wouldn't have the intellectual leaps into Mathematical Logic & Algebraic equations.
From there there many Arab, Persian, Afghani, Jewish, Asian...mathematicians carried the science forward into architecture, engineering applications, & invented the scientific method.
So let no Indian or Persian whose just a hater of Arabs deprive those Arabs their great role in amassing great knowledge for the benefit of the whole world.
Arabs in particular also had a great share of the contributions in too many fields, lets not pretend that Math is all that was.
But the Arabs utmost greatness lied in bringing great minds, gov & money together [without racism] for the benefit of the world.
They gave us universities, hospitals, libraries, preserved, organised & compressed knowledge into encyclopedias for future scholars.
Paper from China, silk from India & China, steel makers, ship rudders & triangular sails, soap, oils, glass blower, weavers from the Arabs of Syria, Lebanon, Iraq & Asia..etc.
So no, it wasn't Ghazali whom you've gravely misquoted, he was too small for that. It govs that direct nations towards progress or recession & the fall was mainly due to decadence, corruption, division, that allowed external invasion & the ransacing of the cities. Ushering in the rule of the ignoramus.
Mr Degrasse is holding the telescope from its opposite end. Physicists should stick to their field where they know what they're talking about.
Does anyone think 'the West' could be doing the same thing in response to multiple crises brought about by unresolved systemic contradictions, inability to reform, demographic pressures and external threats, as well as environmental catastrophes brought about by, say, climate change?
Who were the people who destroyed and burnt libraries across the world over many centuries?
As a Malay, this is true.
From the wikipedia article "The Incoherence of the Incoherence" - "Al-Ghazali stated that one must be well versed in the ideas of the philosophers before setting out to refute their ideas. Al-Ghazali also stated that he did not have any problem with other branches of philosophy such as physics, logic, astronomy or mathematics. His only axe to grind was with metaphysics, in which he claimed that the philosophers did not use the same tools, namely logic, which they used for other sciences."
One of the things about this that I find so sad is mathematics is a great way to see and appreciate the unfathomable intellect of the Mind that created it (math) and our universe which itself follows mathematical principles. Dismissing math as from the devil denies the glory to God for creating the universe with such patterns, laws of physics, etc. Practicing science can be a form of worship to God. To learn to better understand the creation is to better understand the Creator in His vast greatness. To see that so much of the arabs lost that because of one heretic (or at least in part because of him) is just so tragic.
I) Every culture had their own names for the stars.
II) Arabic numerals came from the Hindi Brahmi numerals, which could have been developed from the early Roman numerals. Those came from the Etrusco-Roman numeral system, which may have derived from the numeral system of the Mycenean Greeks.
III) Algebra was invented by the ancient Greeks.
IV) The "Islamic Golden Age" wasn't a period of great advancements in knowledge and technology _because_ of Islam. It was a period of gathering together all knowledge of different peoples in lands _conquered_ by Muslims under the Islamic Empire and translated into Arabic. _This_ is the reason so many things have Arabic names, because they stole them, renamed them, and claimed them as their own.
In other words, Islam is guilty of the largest mass Cultural Appropriation in history.
You are 99% right
@@ibatan7243 Okay, what's the 1% that I got wrong?
@@OokamiKageGinGetsu The 1% is not a documented calculation. It is a presumption that in case, in the future, new facts (not fake theories) kicked-in and caused newer conclusions, I will be covered under the 1%. In accounting, we tend to use the 99% instead of the 100% just in case.
@@ibatan7243 IOW, you are incapable of refuting my claim.
@@OokamiKageGinGetsu REFUTING?? I was complimenting you. Wake-up, 99% support is not refuting.
totally agree, most golden age scientists were deists, not muslims, from other cultures especially persians, their books were burned and they were persecuted.
A lot of comments on Arabic numerals being Hindu but the point was the ones who exploited the discovery in the best way would have naming rights just like his example of America and the internet
i don't know if anything in the world is so hostile toward progress and scientific discovery as Islam. i don't think any ideology is as dangerous.
Very spirited thoughts on the subject. The decline in freedom of thoughts is Ghazali, and other royal courtiers commissioned by Caliphs, that started paraphrasing, and indoctrinating islamic principles and edicts through very very narrow lens to benefit the Caliphs and their dominions. Very carefully they crafted the history to support their views, suppressing freedom of thought and expression, call for justice, and importantly at the root is very unfortunate historical tribal enmity between Banu Hashim (with a Israelite bloodline) and the other Quraysh tribes (that carried through centuries, have no basis for modernity). This ofcourse is evident in present day belief systems in Saudi Arabia, and other dominant Muslim countries. The scholarship in Iran is just as depressing as Saudis (two seem to be competing for ideologies and they are both wrong, wolves dressed in sheeps clothing). Just very sad. They all made this religion a big theatre for their own amusement and profit.
If you are least bit interested, look into Hussein (Muhammad's grandson), Jafar Sadiq (Muhammad's great grand son) and research their lives, their works, their students and scholars that they mentored in becoming the leading scientists and thinkers of their time. Truth is not very far only if you seek it. Draw your own conclusions, learn to live with your own conscience and not a work horse for prevailing mainstream bias and propaganda.
Yes, we call them in Arabic "wu'ad salatin" "preachers of the Sultans" , because we know that they were serving the people in power. Most educated people are familiar with this term.
is there any subject neil degrasse coulndt enlight us? Wouldnt it be better (or more scientific, just for the sake) to ask someone who actually studied this?
I see one massive problem with that: someone who was studies Islam and is invested in believing it - they are also going to be invested in believing islam is responsible for anything good at any opportunity they find.
That's true, isn't it? Have you talked to many Muslims in a relsecful and serious conversation who didn't do that?
I have, but they are very, very rare.
Ex-Muslims I have heard describe that as being how they started questioning whether Islam is true and eventually deciding that it is not (as in, the voice in Mo's head not infallible and from God, nor the qur'an, and will God punish for new disagreement with qur'an ).
Short answer: No, because they would likely very invested and biased in the conclusion that the assumption that Islam is from God and secondly, must only be a good influence.
Ouch, that hurt.
Why the Fuck is the last guy here for
According to Islam, their greatest invention, throwing gays out of tall buildings😓
Neil DeGrasse Tyson is awesome.
With the exception of Weinberg the above video is addled bull shit from start to finish. Tyson's following is as credulous as fuck.
Everyone hates and rejects the truth. Its called the 5 stages of grief. This comments section is on stage 1 😂
The same argument can be reflected right back at your comment ;)
[ Wild Comment used *Mirror* , it was *Super Effective* ]
closing of the muslim mind book
Very good talk about the history of Islam. Bfore and after Al-Ghazali you have a strengthening of militarism in the Muslim countries which armed at the expense of economic and social development. It was combined with selective imports of technology for military purposes, while resisting the import of the underlying economic concepts to sustain the expensive military technology, making the Muslim countries even fail militarily within few centuries, because of their economic system based on slavery and control of trade routes, which came under attack and couldn't be defended successfully despite international cooperation.
brother I'd advice you to double check your claims with all due respect
this is an absolute bs actually, Islam doesn't forbid doing the praised science, I mean this is so ridiculous that it's hilarious honestly
they look educated and yet they aren't double checking their claims
here's a video of a Muslim scholar debunks all these claims by Neil and steven ua-cam.com/video/nfRnYNig9jU/v-deo.html
you can check every thing this scholar says btw
@@Sev7_omar true
@@Sev7_omar explain
@@freniisammii sure, here's a scholar explaining how it actually happened. ua-cam.com/video/nfRnYNig9jU/v-deo.html
Islam destroys everything.
the fall of islam as a scientific culture is a warning to us all: if you allow the forces of superstition and religious orthodoxy, specifically maniacal, absolutist religious orthodoxy, to take hold, you can lose your very humanity. islam today, as a cultural movement, is almost completely bereft of humanity. people are ofno value, only god has value, and people are valued for their closeness to god, not for their intrinsic worth. we were once like that in europe, many people were like that, its analogous to Fascism, and the good people of the muslim world who are aware of this crisis are enabling this horror by not acting. i do not presume to say what they can do, but they must do something to thwart this.
Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī
from wiki:
Al-Khwarizmi's popularizing treatise on algebra (The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing, الكتاب المختصر في حساب الجبر والمقابلة, Al-kitāb al-mukhtaṣar fī ḥisāb al-ğabr wa’l-muqābala;ca. 813-833 CE[8]:171) presented the first systematic solution of linear and quadratic equations. One of his principal achievements in algebra was his demonstration of how to solve quadratic equations by completing the square, for which he provided geometric justifications.[7]:14 Because he was the first to treat algebra as an independent discipline and introduced the methods of "reduction" and "balancing" (the transposition of subtracted terms to the other side of an equation, that is, the cancellation of like terms on opposite sides of the equation),[9] he has been described as the father[10][11] or founder[12][13] of algebra. The term algebra itself comes from the title of his book (specifically the word al-jabr meaning "completion" or "rejoining"). His name gave rise to the terms Algorism and algorithm.[14] His name is also the origin of (Spanish) guarismo[15] and of (Portuguese) algarismo, both meaning digit.
Babylonians and ancient greeks where doing algebra waaaaaay before muslim scholars.
"Spain", I belive he means Iberia, wasn't connected to the rest of the Islamic world. Remember that the Iberian caliphate was a rebel caliphate, its founders fled for their lives from Damascus... lets stop associate the "Iberian Islamists" with the "golden age of Islam"... that was in Damascus and Bagdad.
If it wasn't for the Hebrews, Greeks, and other ancient civilizations before Islam and it's so called "Golden Age", they would not have a so called Golden Age. The Torah it's self is a science book, a science book way ahead of its time. So Islam really has no Golden Age. It never has and it never will.
Persians were great thinkers, that area was the cradle of civilisation for thousands of years (before Islam). Islam is not a race but an ideology, tough. I don't normally agree with Neil but in this point I do.
Must admit, can’t stop thinking about Chinese culture in comparison to the Middle East and west. They have been doing this a lot longer than we all have. They have risen and fall and then risen again. I wonder what the explanation is...
What happen to Indian scientific advancement , why did it collapse ? Need honest ,objective analysis 🤔
Salman reported that it was said to him: Your Apostle (ﷺ) teaches you about everything, even about excrement. He replied: Yes, he has forbidden us to face the Qibla at the time of excretion or urination, or cleansing with right hand or with less than three pebbles, or with dung or bone. Sahih Muslim 2 Hadith 504
Does Neil deGrasse Tyson have a Nobel Prize? When he talks about Jews what does he compare? Maybe something like: which religion gives more Nobel Prizes? He gives a simple all-inclusive (master morality) answer to complex questions about the history of the various Islamic countries and the individuality in the Muslim societies.
i'm a Muslim guy , agree that everything is by the well of Allah, and when you believe that he exist , then you know that your knowledge is limited for example : " knowing the future " ... but that dose not mean closing our senses and brains in fact there are well known scientist from my country in NASA.
Allah give us brain for many purposes, one of them is to acknowledge his existence by studying his creations like we humans and also animals,mountains,and everything else.
the real question is not why we are not in the top like before ? but who dose not want us to be in the top , by stopping us and poisoning our brains from the media and in schools .... ?
Neil Tyson's accusation of Al-Ghazali
: ua-cam.com/video/fFrhOxXGgaw/v-deo.html
We do not believe in your allah and we are in majority. Islam is collapsing.
@Shiny Enderman99 no no my friend i don't blame him , hi is a great scholar , i actually agree with what you said , by the way i'm from morocco. my bad if my English is not good but i felt offended from this scientists who see Muslims like they came from a cave or something
@@George-iv1hi In your dreams yeah , my friend Islam is not a Fashion , if Islam is not the truth it will not hold on for 1400 years and number of Muslims now are much larger then then .
@Shiny Enderman99 no prob !! , i'm here to defend my religion , if i'am bad dose not mean Islam is bad , i want to ask you what is your religion and how do you see Islam ?
Fakhr al-Din al-Razi is not atheists as claimed by Steven Weinberg in the first few minutes
By the way, the rise of the West was initiated by the highly educated refugees, who fled the area domited by Islam! They as well brought the old Greek documents to the West, some in the original language and some as Arabic translations.
Wrong Al-Ghazali was not a polymath he was theologian and Jurisprudence scholar........his input hardly regarded by the Muslim Polymath in Cordoba, Fez, Damascus, and Baghdad
Dr. Abdus Salam, who was mentioned here, was an Ahmadi, who were declared heretics in 1974 by the Pakistani constitution. He fled his homeland after Islamists seized power in a military coup in 1977 and lived out his life in the West. On his gravestone, the word “Muslim” has been erased because it is illegal to call him that in Pakistan. So even one out of very few Muslims to excel in science, who helped Pakistan develop nuclear weapons btw, was chased out of his Islamic country, his community violently persecuted, wasn’t allowed to call himself a Muslim and has been erased from the history of Pakistan and the Muslim world in general. I don’t think the Mongols sacking Baghdad can really be blamed for that, can it?🤨
Disgusting.
They also cannot be buried in muslim cemeteries. Persecuted just like other groups of 'non-believers'.
@@toddbeamer6131Lmao, Ahmadi was a dude who claimed to be the “Messiah” in spirit, and flipping the Islamic teachings of the end times inside out. Of course he was going to be ousted as a heretic for falsely claiming to be a prophet, adding to the teachings and mocking Islam. We aren’t like most Christians who would just yawn as half your priests start advocating gay marriage. There’s a reason why Christianity has 40+ non canon books, it’s teachings are all over the place, and there’s more “viable” Christian sects than my fingers and toes. Many of those under Christianity are atheistic and even those who do believe in their Bible, could care less about “needing” to follow those teachings because belief is apparently enough. Despite the fact that the Bible states that with faith should come action. Meanwhile, Muslims have one agreed upon book and they have the biggest religious sect in the world. Many sources state that Christianity has over tens of thousands of denominations. If you want to interpret your Bible however you like and bring in new sects or prophets or “Messiahs” in the spirit be my guest, but don’t expect us to do the same. When Islam has the biggest religious sect in the world it’s quite obvious that this was no accident and that you are missing a core understanding about Islam as a religion and know nothing about its history or politics. So it’s quite disgraceful for you to make such an outrageous accusation about a topic with which you didn’t bother researching in depth, when you yourself probably did not touch your Bible for the last month.
Nobody who talks about "islamic science" would describe what Newton, Copernicus, Gallilei, Pasteur or Koch did as "Christian science"!
Newton was a Christian-unitarian, Copernicus was Canon of the prince-bishopric of Warmia in Prussia, Gallilei worked directly for the Catholic Church and the Jesuits, Pasteur was a devout catholic, so you could call it Christian science
@@jackofasgard9108 yes it could be done, but it is not done because in Western countries religion and science are seen as two quite separate things that have nothing to do which each other.
@@jackofasgard9108Unitarianism at the time was barely Christian. Galileo was tried by the Inquisition and forced to retract, living his life out under house arrest - for discovering heliocentrism independently of Aristarchus 1,800 yrs prior. Christiaan Huygens - The world is my country, science my religion. Leonardo had close calls with the church. Elements of the Catholic Church later denounced Copernicus, , ,
@@Lee-jh6cr keep coping lefty
@@jackofasgard9108 OK, assjackofgard.
Irony is that Abdul Salam, the noble laureate was declared non-Muslim by his own country. I wish these small talks could be played to school kids in Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Iran , Afghanistan and so many countries like them
Nobel - but lose no sleep.
All best
if they say these today, both will be call islamophobic.
chunlin05 I don't know about that, as it seems to be mainly about followers of Islam and not Islam as a religion. Even so, some of the the presented information can still be misleading.
that's exactly what they are saying
Dude it's just like a jew thing am not a Muslim I was but not anymore but my family still Muslims and there are normal educated people and very open minded so when someone dis Islam is ight but when you Diss Muslims that shit hurts
@@worfoz get a life
@@almostafa4725 get a brain and use it, parasite
One correction. We call our numbers "Arabic", but we wouldn't recognize their numbers as used by Arabs today. Numbers
actually originated in India (Hindi or Sanscrit?).
It is Indian. Since Europeans got it from Arabs it’s called Arabic 😢.
@user-yj4sx8io7s I am Muslim and Mathematics roots are in India
When I was starting school in the mid-60's in the US the number systems was introduced as the "Hindu-Arabic" system. It seems America knew long ago about the true origins of our numerology but chose to edit out the Indian contribution in subsequent years.
Yeah, nice how Tyson forgot that that. Even many of the 'Muslim' scientists from that period were actually Christians, Zoroastrians and Jews. Even among the Muslims, many of the outstanding figures were PERSIANS, not Arabs.
That was not to because he wanted to forget indians it is because he wanted to make a point. Things he said about ghazali are not entirely true too, he caused destruction of islamic society but he was a great scientist too. He left out certain parts to make a point.
@@SEKreiver if you start labelling islam ONLY to Arabs, you better not coming to this comment section bro.
@Vinny Zigzag 비니 지그재그 I'm quite aware of Persia/Zoroastrianism. Persians were to the Arabs (and later Turks) what the Greeks were to the Romans. In fact, I consider the Persians (in all their incarnations of Medes/Persians, Parthians, Sassanids and now with Iran) to be one of the most dynamic ethnic groups in the history of the world. IMO, if Arab-supremacist Islam hadn't come along, there probably would've been a fairly unbroken line of Persian/Iranic dominance in the Middle East from 600BC until now. We may see it again.
@@fanjarwijaksono552 '"if you start labelling islam ONLY to Arabs, you better not coming to this comment section bro."
Thanks for the advice--or was that an order? Is English your second language, bro? I ask, because somehow you misunderstood my sentence here:
"Even among the Muslims, many of the outstanding figures were PERSIANS, not Arabs."
How anyone fluent in English could misunderstand that is beyond me. I said that many outstanding MUSLIMS were PERSIANS. The main reason I pointed out the two ethnicities is that we have the term 'Arabic numerals'. Of course, Hindus invented them. However, the Persians appear to have been using them BEFORE they converted to Islam and BEFORE any Arabs even knew about them. What those numerals are NOT is 'Arabic'.
Are there any other things I should or should not say, Fanjar? Asking for a friend. :-)
It is as simple as this: All societies have their own contributions to science. The knowledge we have today is accumulative from the begging of time. Societies that experienced relative stability contributed more than others in their time. This is true to all parts of the world. I still think religion played negative role in the advancement of sciences but it is not the main reason. I think wars and instability and of course education are some of those reason. The reasons are many more.
European and american science prospered even more during wartime
Your statement is incorrect, the writing is on the wall..... or should i say lack of writing, we are now speaking of 800 years or so......
At times religion has promoted these discoveries, but agreed as a majority of time in power, they halt progress in many realms
In our time of the 20th and 21st centuries it is only the Democratic countries that have contributed to science and the advancement of Technology, Art and Music and that is because people are free to experiment and try something new. For me the ridiculous anti science movements in the US aligned with Trump is incredibly disturbing, modern computer technology was born and bred in the US and is one of the wonders of the 21st century.
@@allworldmusic8270 What "anti science movements in the US aligned with Trump"?
the mongols and the destruction they brought to the asian world also had a lot to do with the west catching up
They destroyed China too
The greatest invention of Islam is the myth of an Islamic Golden age.
Actually, even that myth was pretty much invented by European scholars and intellectuals in the late 19th and early 20th century - a time when the Middle East was shrouded in the romantics of "Orientalism" and Islam wasn't considered a threat to anyone or anything, not least among themselves.
@@somerandomvertebrate9262 But we should all forget Algebra, frequency analysis and surgery.
@@asadulhaq6689 No we shouldn't, but how much does 11th century surgery impact the healthcare procedures of today? There was a Muslim "golden age" to some extent - a thousand years ago - but like already stated, mostly among Persians (who were Aryans and carriers of an ancient civilization of their own) and half of that derived from Antiquity in any case.
Above all, the "golden age" existed despite Islam, not thanks to it! As soon as Islamic litteralism was back in vogue - around the time of the crusades - it killed off that quasi-pagan phenomenon known as the "golden age", never to return.
@@somerandomvertebrate9262 You make good points. Let's proceed with the argument.
1. "but how much does 11th century surgery impact the healthcare procedures of today?" Not much. I agree. But are the modern procedures not perfected upon those of those olden days?
2. "...and half of that derived from Antiquity in any case." As if the science today is not derived from that introduced by previous civilizations. All advancement is based upon previous advancement. All golden ages are derived from their relative antiquities. These statements are self-evident, if not axiomatic. Case in point: Lookup the legacy of Al-Zahrawi the Surgeon, who wasn't Persian by the way.
3. "Above all, the "golden age" existed despite Islam, not thanks to it!" This is an excellent point. It couldn't have been the knowledge of scriptures that inspired the men (mostly) of that age and time to bring about any advancement of reason, civilization and science. Most were just practical folks finding practical solutions to real world problems. Also, an enormous number of these guys were Persians, not Arabs. Iqbal puts it this way, "Islam found in Persia what Rome found in Greece: Culture." So perhaps we shouldn't call it the Islamic Golden Age. Perhaps we should call it the Persian/middle-eastern golden age. The only reason it seems to be called the Islamic golden age is because it happened in a place where the predominant religion was Islam, and because most of the men that brought it about were Muslims (many devout, many other indifferent).
But this is where I have an unanswered question: Where are all the pre-Islamic non-muslim scientists, philosophers and mathematicians of Persia? Why are they so few in number despite the rich contact of Persia with the West in pre-Islamic world?
And here is my personal take on it: The Islamic Caliphs (at least Abbasids and Andalusians) brought internal peace and later, placed an emphasis on acquisition of knowledge. A strong intellectual tradition can not flourish if it is not valued in the society (take the renaissance, modern and post modern Europe for instance). After the quick expansions in East and West, the Muslim empires did not have many enemies. In those times of relative internal peace, prosperity and wealth, the 'houses of knowledge' in Bukhara, Constantinople, Baghdad and Andalusia attracted men who excelled in jurisprudence (highly sought after), medicine, science, knowledge of ancient Greeks and mathematics. (Persians back then seem to be the smart Asian Kids of those times, many still are today). This is what Islam did: 'pave the way' for these guys. It united and brought them under a greater system that rewarded and allowed for such intellectual advancements. Fact of the matter is: Yes, there was a time when our adversaries today were more advanced than us. Yes, in one way or the other, Islam was to blame for it.
4. "As soon as Islamic literalism was back in vogue - around the time of the crusades - it killed off that quasi-pagan phenomenon known as the "golden age", never to return."
If you watched the video, you should be acquainted with the name of Ghazali. He is the man who is thought to have "stymied the corruption of philosophy" in Islamic World. He was Persian. This one man is a very complex topic. Though his teachings did have an impact of de-emphasizing philosophy in his time, it was because his reason was too meticulous to be countered well by the knowledgeable (no kidding) and too susceptible to generalization to be not accepted and used by masses. But he could only have ended the Golden Age as much as Islam had started it. After all, there were men who made important contributions even after Ghazali's time. (By the way, this guy was born in mid 11th century, and primarily against metaphysics. 2 centuries before him, there were people like Al-Kindi who made landmark contributions in a time when Islamic literalism was really in vogue.) The major reason for the steady decline was war. Not crusades, since they were never waged near the knowledge capitals. But the Mongolian Invasion. After the invasions, the Persian and Turkic Kingdoms of Islamic World stayed at wars with each other as late as the arrival of British East India company. And the rest is history.
The "Islamic literalism back in vogue" isn't a really good argument. Al-Khwarizmi (a Persian) introduced Algebra. Its killer application was to efficiently solve the problem of Inheritance in Shariyah Law. The spherical geometry was developed to figure out the direction of Ka'ba (that black cuboid that Muslims face while praying) from different locations. Moreover, if I remember correctly it was Khwarizmi's book on Algebra that began with elaborate adulation of Allah (maybe it was a trend back then).
Funk Cult, butthurt much?
Couple of corrections to what Neil said.
1. The zero was an Indian invention, not an Arabic one.
2. The internet was invented by a British guy, Tim Berners-Lee by name. He did it while at CERN.
Sorry, Tim Berners-Lee invented hypertext, the concept of documents that contain links to other documents, while at CERN. He also invented HTML (HyperText Markup Language, a page-description language) and HTTP (HyperText Transfer Protocol), which became the basis of the World Wide Web. He was about the third person to come up with a similar concept, but the first to produce a usable working version. He did this in the early 90's. The Internet, and its predecessor ARPAnet, had been up and running since 1969, more than 20 years before Berners-Lee developed HTTP. Because Internet use exploded in about 1995, when Graphic User Interface (GUI) operating systems and software were common, many people think the World Wide Web IS the Internet. But it's just one application layer protocol running on the Internet; the Internet itself was operational all through the 70's and 80's, running other protocols that are still in use today, such as FTP (File Transfer Protocol), SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol), POP (Post Office Protocol) and IMAP (Internet Mail Access Protocol).
The Internet was developed in the US, first under a government contract starting in 1968 (ARPA is the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Administration), and first implemented in 1969 between four US universities with Defense Department research contracts. It spread rapidly through the US, and was soon connected to national networks in other countries that sprang up once the technology was standardized - first in England and Canada, then in western Europe, then throughout the world. The transport layer protocols TCP/IP (Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol) were developed in the 70's at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center (Xerox PARC), where the Graphic User Interface was also invented. Many date the transition from ARPAnet to the Internet to the early 80's, when routers were configured to drop all packets in protocols other than TCP/IP. Nothing against Tim Berners-Lee, but saying he invented the Internet is almost as inaccurate as saying Al Gore did. It's a little like saying Henry Ford invented the road.
Joe Graphic
That is perhaps the most thourough explanation of the inception of the "internet" that I've read in the youtube comment section.
@tDrauqRaM emmit mc henry another black man invented the domain name .. and gave the world .. dot com .. hello .
@Morpheus x Jeez, what a racist ending. It wasnt the nigerian guy, chill out. Emeagwali received the !1989! (internet was about 20 years old already), Gordon Bell Prize for an application of the CM-2 massively-parallel computer. The application used computational fluid dynamics for oil-reservoir modeling. It was basicaly a model to acelerate the ratio of processing of floating point operation per second, the FLOATS. "STOP YOUR WHITE SUPREMACY FAIRYTALES" AHAHAHAHAHAHAH.. "SIMPLE RESEARCH WILL CONFIRM THIS" Ahahahah!!!!, I did it, and you are wrong!!! This is the kind of comment that makes withe people feel superior, thanks Morpheus x. And btw, let me expand your narrow brain: The first mechanical computer - Charles Babbage; First programmable computer - Konrad Zuse; First concepts of a modern computer - Alan Turing; First electric programmable computer- Tommy Flowers; First digital computer - John Vincent Atanasoff and graduate student Cliff Berry. AND I AM NOT PLAYING GAMES, there is no black man in thouse computers. So cut the racist shit, and the withe supermacy shit and get some true education or elucidation, so you can be the next big thng on PC!. Btw, im a proudly moreno! xD P.S.: Cut the caps lock writting, or get some glasses. xD
Wrong, Al Gore invented the internet. So says Al Gore.
Actually Neil has a point, and I think it answers huge question in my mind. Why the culture of science didn't rise with the rise of Islam in ottoman empire. Even though ottomans did a pretty good job in science etc, but still, it was nowhere close to the golden age.
Because islam is totally unscientific pagan cult that makes people brainless morons and keeps them dumb.
@@George-iv1hi because you are completely ignorant and moron person, You don't even deserve a dislike.
And one may ask why that culture did not arrive in China, an enormous;y wealthy society as described by Marco Polo.
@@JRobbySh Never mind China. It did not reach neither Egypt nor North Africa nor Mecca/Medina/Saudi Arabia nor Arabian Peninsula at all. It was concentrated in Iraq (mostly Bagdad and Mosul), major part of Persia (iran today), part of Syria, part of Lebanon and Israel. These zones were full of Christians, Jews, Assyrians and Persians who did all the work while the muslims were MOSTLY illiterate and couldn't write their own names. Most of their civilization was based on translating from the Greek, Persian, Assyrian, Egyptian (pharaonic) and Indian languages. Only in the XXth century when oil was discovered that they started to learn and made slow advances.
@@ibatan7243 Interesting to know
Charlemagne was a great patron of learning. While he himself was illiterate, he made sure his descendants were not. Weinburg may be some kind of scientist but he should be careful about throwing around insults.
he was quoting "hitti", he seems to have bought into some arab propaganda..
From the wikipedia article "The Incoherence of the Incoherence" - "Al-Ghazali stated that one must be well versed in the ideas of the philosophers before setting out to refute their ideas. Al-Ghazali also stated that he did not have any problem with other branches of philosophy such as physics, logic, astronomy or mathematics. His only axe to grind was with metaphysics, in which he claimed that the philosophers did not use the same tools, namely logic, which they used for other sciences."
If the above is accurate, does it seem likely that Al Ghazali was really against science? That bit about the fire and the cotton has to do with occasionalism vs independent cause and effect. Science is not capable of knowing the ultimate 1st cause. God is the ultimate cause of all things i.e. the absolute explanation, but that does not mean that relative explanations are incorrect - a fact pointed out by Averroes.
Was the theological/ontological point that Al Ghazali made truly to blame for the decline of science Islamic in lands? As far as I'm aware, the consensus of Islamic scholarship was never against any sort against scientific inquiry at any time. But were Muslims nonetheless discouraged to any extent in pursuing such by Al Ghazali's explanation of occasionalism?
I think that Tyson did not read a single book by Al-Ghazali, so if he had read, he would not have said this
Not Al ghazali as a person that discouraged Muslims. Actually al ghazalli is a despised scholar with lies when it comes to salafis for example. Salafis discourage ghazalli from even using philosophy or logic to prove anything. They are as feidist as they come.
The major problem is when you look to the emergence of the Islamic golden age, you would see it was a mass Greek translation period of time under caliph mamoun who was a mutazili promoter.
The non formal individualistic science movement was damaged by stopping of sponsorship from caliphs at times of war. And the less philosophers and logicians there is, the more enabling of fundamentalists and fundamentalism.
It sure won't help when you know most of those scientists were claimed heretics and infidels too. So any rise in religious movements, they will be disregarded ultimately.
@@worlddj1364 I'm pretty sure the decline had to do with the Mongols because if you look at China and Russia and pretty much all of the areas which were conquered by the Mongols oh, they went under similar decline and only the areas that weren't directly or indirectly affected by them AKA Western Europe were the ones that flourished
@@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Russia never was the same as the Islamic world though. Russia successfully engaged in the industrial revolution and that's probably why they dismantled the Balkan under ottomans so easy..
But don't get me wrong. The Mongols indeed did so much damage. But afterwards while other nations recovered, Islamic nations declined much much more, leading ultimately to the biggest colonial era in their times..sadly..
@@worlddj1364 You know but like Middle East was the cradle of civilization, the population of Baghdad from 13th centure was never achived up until 20th centure, so imagine what a blow that was. Also Russia never needed irrigation system while in Middle East Mongols at purpose destroyed irrigation systems kept there for centuries and they werent able to rebuild that
@9:06 Arabic numerals come from India. Europeans called them Arabic because they arrived in Europe via the Arab world.
NDT too often talks in ignorance, more concerned with how he sounds than with accuracy.
ncooty no the original Indian numerals are used by the Arabs now, what you are using in English are the Arabic numerals. They are similar but not the same.
True but its not like the Europeans didn;'t have their own numbering systems. Romans had Roman numerals which worked just as well as modern numbers we use today. It was still a numbering system.
He is correct later on the video though,
Filip Cristian . Shut up fool. Then why didn’t they change them to better Arabic numerals
you r right..I was irritated to see how people can be so ignorant while speaking in-front of so many people.
Id love to see Chappelle do a skit on deGrasse Tyson lol
Zero was invented in INDIA .
The words algebra and geometry are also taken from Sanskrit not " arabics"
Well Al gibra comes specifically from Arabic. But thrikona matra and trigonometry sound pretty similar.
Doesn't matter who invented it but who uses it wisely in modern day :D .
@l3054 It is obvious the islamic people contributed noth positive to the world.
Suresh Maru Al Jabr is an Arabic word. But I admit 0 zero is Indian word. Al Jabr was created by Al Khwarezmi (non - arab but a Muslim) scientist.
Not right, algebra, as name suggests, is from Arabs. Geometry? Not sure.
Al Jaber who wrote Algebra had mentioned himself that he had travelled to South India and that's where he got most of his insights discussing with local mathematicians especially in Kerala. Arabic numerals' were not invented by Arabs. How can such a great scientist like Neil deGrasse can go so wrong. This is called 'confirmation' bias.some ideas you have been taught since childhood and you never dare to question it, so you go on finding facts validating those ideas. Without willing to dig deeper or further into history or beyond that point. Sky was completely mapped in ancient India long before Arabs or Greeks. In Hindu puranas, it's mentioned where are the locations of stars and constellations and how the sky looked 15000 years ago(for eg, Abhijit (Vega)is the pole star before 15000 years). Again Neil deGrasse Tyson is wrong in his assessment that those who invent or discover first get to name them. Most of Arabs discoveries were stolen from India during their invasions(invading Kings got many scholars along to transfer knowledge) and since Arabs were closer to Europeans, they thought most of these come from Arabs. Expected better from Mr.Tyson
Tyson is not a great scientist. This pop science celebrity is an addled buffoon.
Don't forget Genghis Khan and his Mongols. If not for them, we might have been less fortunate.
Everyone forgets about this. Hulagu Khan destroyed Baghdad and the Abassid Caliphate. That event was for the arab world like the fall of Rome was for Europe, but even worse, since the mongolians were far more brutal than the germanic tribes.
@@itamarcaetanodejesus The mongols destroyed the muslims and their works. And after that, they accepted islam i read.
@vial.of.photons they did become Muslim and settled in central Asia the "khan" countries all the way to Turkey.
There has only been a few geniuses in history who have made the important discoveries. The rest of us including Neil are just enjoying those discoveries..
As Einstein said, I am high, because I stand on the shoulders of giants. Science is slow and is the product of many, many people. The ones that are visible are few, flashy personas. Einsteins work is based on tons of mathematicians an physicist nobody knows about. The same applies to every other "genius".
@@tarkalak I think who actually said that was Newton. He was mocking an adversary, Hook, who happened to be short.
Nah, a lot of the discoveries came from a lot of pre-liminary work and reshipping of ideas of the non-geniuses as well; its just that geniuses are good at repackaging and explaining them. For example, Darwin's theory of evolution was preceded by his own grandfather talking about common decent for all life in his book zootopia, animal breeders, natural selection going back to greek and roman times. Einstein's e=mc^2 was written as e=kmc^2 by different scientists until Einstein talked about it, his special relativity was talked about by Lorentz & Poincare, Newton talked about light being a different form of matter that could stack and occupy the same space which came from Hericlites who believed that matter was just fire(plasma) pulsating at a certain rythm.
What BS! Arabic traders picked up the decimal system, medical science etc from ancient India. Ancient India invented the zero and the decimal system and accounting principles etc.
Thoughtflux ancient India still can't invent toilet..BS
@@jawwadafridi2194 sure they did, where else did you crawl out from?
Let's pretend that's true. So what? Advanced civilisations have the wisdom to take the best from each other.
Technology improves the comfort level of peoples lives. Science makes people makes people question religion. Religion props up the ruling class. To learn the scientific method makes you ask questions those in power don't want you asking.
Atheism pushes society towards nihilism, nationalism, racism, gender confusion, substance abuse and general moral degradation.
This is a very timely talk here in 2023 where you have a political party actively trying to dismantle education. If we ignore or rewrite history, we are doomed to replay the mistakes of the past. That is a disturbing and terrifying situation.
The problem is the Arabs claim the Fertile Crescent as Arabic. It’s not. Before there was a culture known as Arabic, the Babylonians, Assyrians, Medes, all these different ethnicities existed and were studying the stars and mathematics. Islam inherited those things when they conquered those places. Arabs themselves were desert nomads. These things were not developed in Arabia, but on the graveyards of places they conquered. We think about nearly the entire Middle East as Arab but it wasn’t like that in Roman times and certainly not before that.
What was it Napoleon said? “What is history but lies agreed upon?” The conquerors name things whatever they want. In this case we just have clear evidence that the Indians were using 0 at the time. Hell, they may have gotten them from the Chinese. We don’t know. It’s too far back into unrecorded history.
What Neil DeGrasse Tyson says about the Jews is true. They have a vibrant intellectual tradition independent of their religion, and we should all be looking at what makes them tick, and then doing more of what they're doing.
When I hear Tyson talking religion I automatically disbelieve whatever he says.
He is not taking about Religion. He is taking about a specific part of history that was brought to an end by religion
He did not read Gazzali's works so he is blatantly lying. Read one of his books named "munqiz min ed dalal". He basically divided philosphy into 6 articles: 1. Maths, 2. Logic, 3. Knowledge of Nature (I think physics), 4. Teology, 5. Politics, 6. Morality. He fully agreed with maths, logic and politics and partially rejected theory of morality and physics (rightfully so if you know what that's about in that time) and he rejected majority of the teology.
Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. Relevant to your thinking: It is easier to continue to be deceived than to admit to self-deception.
@@ofthecaribbean 95% of all scientific discoveries are made by religious people? Stop misleading people with your lies.
Don't forget the thousand years of crusades, empires, and western-backed despots. Permanent turmoil would affect anyone's ability to evolve.
I'd simply ask how can thousands of years of Crusades take place in the 1,400 or so years of Islam.
The Crusades include episodes of vicious brutality and many of these took place in Europe.
The brutality of the Islamic or Arab conquests and their often genocidal nature is well documented.
So what we think of as The Crusades in the East were attempts to regain land lost.
They took place between 1096 and 1291. How many battles and sieges were fought in the Crusades in the East? ( do we ignore the Crusades against Pagans and "heretics" in Europe? ).
In contrast, scholars identity 548 battles of conquest fought by Islam against what we think of as the Classical Greek/ Roman civilisations.
There were about 200 battles in Spain alone and a Muslim chronicler referred to this conquest as a judgement day or the end of the world ( depends on the translation).
Then there are the battles in Africa, the Indian subcontinent and places like Afghanistan ( which was Buddhist). It's well worth looking up how the Hindu Kush got it's name.
We have Tamerlane who was a Shia Muslim who considered Genghis Khan his role model and killed around 14% of the world's population.
Then we have the Ottoman Turks conquest of the Balkans and their repeated efforts to take Austria.
It's estimated they returned home with 80,000 slaves after their last attempt to take Vienna.
Then add in the slavery in Africa, India, Asia and Europe.
This is a brief overview and all of the information is here online.
the cusades started when the ottomans attacked the byzantine empire. It was completely their fault.
The blame game will get you nowhere. You're just continuing the same battle but with words instead of weapons. Try compassion and understanding.
02:20
"Islamic depression for the lost of Spain"? And you choose to construct that, where the destruction of Baghdad by the Mongols would have been more coherent?!
What is not mentioned here is that the cultural influence continued after the Muslim conquests and diminished to nothing within those three hundred years. Furthermore, not discussed, is that many of the "scientists" of that time adopted Muslim names in order to avoid dhimmitude. When the old culture had been entirely replaced by Islam, scientific enquiry and methodology effectively ceased.
This is the most biased and desperate reading of history one could conceive of. You're hellbent on not giving Islam an inch. It's pathetic.
Except that most of these scientists were actually born from already muslim parents. They were also versed in religion, that made the struggle harder for the idiots who thought they can intimidate them with religion.
Many of the Muslims of the golden age weren't Muslim, and and early Islam did not allow people to convert to Islam because they would then pay the 20% Zakat instead of the 30% Jizzaya, so early Muslims didn't want people to convert is Islam. When the non-rationalist versions of Islam began dominating, the amount of science output completely vanished.
What isnt discussed is that the "Islamic Golden Age" really has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with conquest and taking the knowledge of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern nations like Rome, Egypt and Persia
What was actually born out of Islam itself? Nothing
@@Ssookawai exactly, dia parents were forced at d sword into Islam.
True the Indians came up with the numerals we use in the west today.
Nope arab did it and islamophobic ppl trying to change it
Everyone destroys their own golden age.
4m54s: Um, Neil, the Internet was invented here. It was called ARPANET and it went online in 1969, using packet switching to link two computers over a distance to send the first message.
BloodofPatriots LMFAO I was scrolling through these comments, going to make the comment You made. ODD that only two people, out of the +1K comments noticed his mistake. Kahn & Cerf made it all possible. ;^)
True history but little twisted liberal explanation. Mongols invasion had a lot to do with this lost knowledge in the 13th century.
Nope, muslims killed the science themselves - my nation was invaded many times (by Turks, Tatars, Swedes, Russians, Germans...), yet we are 100 times more advanced than muslims. We have science, technology, art, literature...
just a sidenote, a muslim nobel prize winner was jaser arafat who got the nobel peace prize, and he wasn't pakistani but palestinian. also arabic numerals are also called indian numeals, because they originated in india and got their way into the west via arabs.