I've Stopped Buying Seikos For Now... Maybe You Should Too!
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
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I kept waiting for you to land the plane. There is no point to this video
You've got the words out of my mouth 😅
My first time watching him and this was the most pointless video....he talked for 15 minutes and said nothing.
That's just him 😂 That's why I don't watch his videos all that often, I was going to give this one a chance but based on the comments, I'm going to skip it, thank you 😁
@@wackzingo ???. overpriced not value"kings" anymore = orient better, only interesting seiko watches are random limited, seiko gives a fuck about their customer higher prices lower qc. But the "fans" will find a way to cheer anyway, cause its seiko "unhateable" :D same as Casiofans. They also hating Tissot Prx Digital ignoring the fact that you get finally a solid stainless steel crispy clean DRESSY digital watch with good specs and not a student, hippie chrome plastic blingy watch for 70 dollar (which is fine) anymore. But you can buy a Casio Vintage TRN-50 for that quality...oh only 5bar and Mineral glass for 500 dollar and "limited"? come on Casio :D
Most of his takes are bad lol. I watch his videos to do the exact opposite. Thank me later
SARB033 was Seiko’s value proposition high-water-mark
I wish I had gotten one before they discontinued it.
They keep raising prices without adding sapphire or anything to show for it. 500+ watch= bezel and hour markers should line up
"You used to be able to get this $325 brand new"
Until people like you jacked the price WAYYY up by overhyping the hell out of it non stop for years.
Its the same reason I can no longer buy almost any quality used car. The car community hyped every little niche car we could buy into the stratosphere
I recently got an Alpinist with a 6R35 movement and even after a trip back to SWA in New Jersey, it won't keep time worth a damn. Hamiltons are less flashy and more expensive but they do a watch's number one job; they tell you the correct time. It's a shame, too, because that Alpinist is absolutely beautiful.
Seiko went too far with their dials and completely forgot about their customer needs. Affordable price point used to be a key selling point for Seiko once upon a time.
I'm done with Seiko for now too. My issue is the increase in price combined with a decrease in quality. I've bought two Alpinists this year, a limited edition Rock Face, and a 1959. Both went to the Seiko service center within the first week of ownership for movement issues. The 6R35 is flat out a POS.
My 6R made it less than a year and I still have not had it fixed, frustrating because it seems that it was a lubrication issue.
@@michaelbradley6488
Thanks for mentioning it. Will let mine eventually get serviced as a preventative measure
Same with my alpinist, always way ahead in minutes. Can it be calibrated?
@@alexsalvador3370 Yes, you can have a watchmaker service your watch and get it regulated for timing. My 6R simply stopped working at all....
My 6r35 watches have been quite poor as accuracy. Some good, others very bad. Not have stopped though. My divers with the 4r movement have been much more accurate.
Dude, prices have gone up on everything. This is what you're upset about? Really? Wanna talk to my local grocer for me? You could always buy a TAG...lol
Lol. You’re unintelligent. Funny:)
Yeah the cost of living crises is kind of a big issue, nice to have 1st world problems worrying about the price of watches though 😂
I'm really glad you did this video. Until you said it I had somehow been feeling it without actually knowing it. My last two purchases were not any seiko, and I had not actually thought about it much. You are right, and I see it now. I had actually wanted a spring drive at some point, but in consideration of my last two purchases, the thought didn't cross my mind. Thank you.
I'll never think of Seiko (including Grand) as anything other than the best and the only watchmaker that needs to exist, but I can't argue with any of your points. That said, there are still so many amazing things in their catalog, so much actual innovation continuing to happen, and so many examples of real value compared to other major brands, I'm willing to forgive/ignore the handful of overpriced and over-branded releases. And even some (I said some!) of those seemingly overpriced releases, such as the SLA and Marine Master lines, may seem overpriced "for a Seiko" but actually turn out to still be bargains compared to Swiss offerings that aren't as durable or finished to as high a standard.
I agree with almost everything you've said. Seiko just makes too many watches at this point and I'm still not over the fact they turned the Skx into more of a fashion watch opposed to the the affordable icon it once was.
I expect a culling soon. It'll be the old "80% of our revenue comes from 20% of our products". At that point, they'll discontinue the poor performers. I expect the same will be true of Long Island Watch.
I've had both the SKX and one of the new S5X's - honestly the reaction from the community about this watch in particular is completely overblown. If all of us were divers who actually needed screw-down crowns and 200m water resistance, then yes I would be annoyed with the changes made from SKX to S5X. However most of us are certainly NOT divers, and I'd venture to guess that most of us aren't doing any rigorous activity in water outside of swimming in shallow water or chilling at the pool (if even that). The watch is literally better in every other way, so I think it's quite a stretch to say that Seiko turned it into a 'fashion watch' - because they didn't. They turned it into more of an everyday watch that is still more than capable of handling anything 99.99% of us would throw at it. That's also why I disagree with this video as well (though usually I find myself on the same page as T3) - the fact that you can buy the S5X for at or below $200 shows that Seiko is still producing decent watches for an affordable price. Yes, not all the references that became cult classics will forever be manufactured at the same price, but that's the way it is.
@@captainkaiii I respect your opinion but better in every way is a stretch. Its nice to see color and hacking but thats not what we all bought an skx for in first place. Great business decision but the watch lost its iconic status imo. At this point mark form long island watch makes a better product. The GMT looks ok but they also added the same function to other divers like the Sumo. My favorite watch is sarb017 and they turn that into a money grab also. Way too many limited editions and overpriced. For now Im good with my 5 seikos now its on to Tudor/Rolex
@@captainkaiii I am a diver and I can assure you that I do not need a dive watch at all when diving.
Rolex makes 1 million watches per year and nobody cares but when Seiko puts out dozens of new models it’s an issue?
I think Citizen, Bulova, Timex and orient are happy to fill in the gap seiko is leaving. I’ve seen some impressive watches at affordable prices and on the used market they will only be more affordable over time.
I'm not so sure about Timex. They should be the cheapest of the bunch, but they often aren't. I paid more for my hand-wind expedition north than I did for my Seiko SNK, and the Timex is using a Chinese movement. Their Waterbury Classic that looks very similar to Bulova's Clipper, and I think uses the same movement, costs 20-30% more than the Clipper. Don't get me wrong, I still love Timex watches and own several, but I don't think their name, brand history, or the watches themselves can justify them charging the way they do against the Japanese brands.
@@mjbrady83 I totally here you on the quality and prices of Timex mechanical watches. I think they will end up being quite a bit cheaper on the used market in the next few years. But regardless. I think Timex quartz with indiglo are great movements and if you can get one with an all stainless steel case, it’s totally worth it. And they tend to be much cheaper than mechanical.
Do a little searching and you can find some very good micro brands in the $500 and sub $2K area.
I also own several Citizen and Bulova watches and love them. Great value for the price.
I had bought a mechanical Tissot a few months ago and it has QC issues. Does that make each and every watch of Tissot crappy?
12:30 - - Fanboy?
What does that make me, then? I still own every Seiko given to me (Birthday, Christmas or Anniversary) between 1973 - 2011. All have been maintained and are still functioning properly.
I think a spring drive in a non Grand Seiko really devalues yhe Grand Seiko brand. What's the difference between a Seiko lx and a Grand Seiko?
I 100% agree. Spring drive is the leap to ultra permium. Its like Sekio is trying to push sekio brand to luxury brand... but quality from what I hear has either stayed the same or got worse.... :(
Many European brands big or small are selling watches with higher prices but lower quality ( in terms of finishing and movements) than Seiko. Their (Seiko) new series really have high quality than the others so they deserve higher prices. I wish they could be sold cheaper but they still offer good value.
For example?
Wearing my SLA053 MM300 right now.
This watch is incredible. Seiko make incredible watches.
sbdx023/sla021 it the best. +1 sec a day.
One watch to rule them all.
@@drbobsnightmare2521
These MM300s are no joke. People have no idea. Grand Seiko movement. Hand built and hand finished by grand Seiko.
People love to hate on Seiko. They’re killing it in my opinion.
@@myklbllngsly when it came in the mail I thought they sent me the wrong watch for a couple minutes. So many qualities don't come across on video. It didn't say Grand Seiko but for a moment I thought they sent one by mistake.
It’s a shame that I’m getting into watches too late to have enjoyed some better value from Seiko. I’m looking for to grabbing at least one Orient watch in the near future. Trying to decide between the Defender or Triton, but maybe both…and still looking forward to more on the M3 on the other channel. Stay safe, blessed and have fun 👍
I have been saying this about Seiko for years now. They used to be value kings, g-shock is going the same direction.
I can’t share the enthusiasm with G-Shocks. I’ve owned one for years and love that one…and that’s the only G-Shock I’ll ever need. Analogs on the other hand…I could never stop buying.
Loving my silver GM2100. Crazy value right there.
Seiko is a true competitor to Swiss thieves. This is a multi-billion industry 30 billion dollars is what Swiss watches make, another 30 billion is made from Apple and many other billions from small brands all over the world, I've been seeing a lot of anti-Seiko videos recently, I think this is sponsored by Swiss watch brands to kill japanese competition.
I bought a bunch of cheap watches to figure out which STYLE i liked best.
Cheap Casio Duro, Cheap Timex. Cheap Orients, Etc...
Now i know i like GMT watches and Telemeter watches.
Now I'm buying expensive watches in styles i know i like.
My spending limit for Seikos is not a penny over $500. QC issue, crummy bracelets and time keeping inconsistencies at the rate Seikos near/at/over 1000 dollars experience are not acceptable anymore, especially with how many good micro brand options there are nowadays. I love my SARB035, but aside from that, nope, I don’t spend my time loving brands that don’t love me back as a consumer.
Absolutely right Jory, I came to the same conclusion a bit earlier, the last two Seiko's I got were the first Arny re issue and the happy feet monster.( both of which were still reasonable priced). but indeed I think Seiko distanced themself to much from the blue collar enthusiast collector who were a big part of Seiko's clientele, ( I started with the saw tooth and the SKX like most of us). But what really hurts is all of a sudden all of they're watches went 1000 bucks and up ( even some they sold for something like 350 bucks before) and do nothing about bad bezel alignment and second hands not hitting the markers on the seconds dail with the quarts stuff.
I had those same issues with a Tudor I put on my wrist, lol.
I still buy Seiko
You have to look at the upside with this trend of Seiko trying to push uphill on price, and what I think is a really cynical way to treat the watch community (but they are aiming at the high street window shopper who just sees a pretty little bauble), it is making room for reasonably priced, creative and appealing microbrand value space. One guy who consistently demonstrates understanding this space and invading it with an almost rampage-like approach is Marc at Longisland Watch - he is making a killing where Seiko has simply left money on the table on the value end. I say good on him and good on the microbrand community. So Jory, you almost sound depressed about Seiko, but the flip side of this is well worth celebrating.
Exactly right! Why buy a Seiko when you can buy a similar watch from a Micro Brand that makes them better and cheaper! It's a no brainer!
Yeah, you were using "Impetus" in the correct context. It means a driving force, and/or some sort of the prime mover for later events.
9 minutes in and still dont know why "Seiko is over" lol.
The SNK 809 is pushing $200 now, and the SNZG 015J is over $250 in some cases. Just the other day, there was a still new, SKX 007j going for just under $1,000. The once entry-level stuff, is really starting to slide out of reach.
The SKX is not Seiko's fault though. That's a collectible that's ballooned in value.
True, but only after they dis-continued it. There's always the Citizen ProMaster EcoDrive for the cheapest ISO diver now.
I got a used skx for $180 2 months ago(on a nato)…pegging a price to the most ridiculous eBay seller who has original old stock has nothing to do with Seiko
Argh. Purchased the SARB069 blue enamel dial at Seiko Boutique in Miami. House was broken into and it was stolen 😢. The gold detail on the seconds hand moon counterweight…and those white leaf hands. Ugga, beautiful.
My last two Seiko's were the new GMT 5 and a basic dress 5. Both horribly inaccurate and had to finally send the GMT back to Seiko to get it sorted out. It's now 5 weeks with no completion date. No more mechanical Seikos for me, they have lost their QC in my opinion.
I totally agree, I have the last gen Alpinist & The Espresso Cocktail Time and now saving up for a Grand Seiko because that’s where the value is in my opinion in Seiko world 🌎
I think you're right about Orient at the "people's" price point - they're killing it. My wife bought me a defender 2 (based largely on your review) which is now my daily driver, and my kids bought me a mako 2 for my birthday. Both outstanding mechanically and beautiful. I still love my 7s26-0028, but I agree that Seiko seem to be moving away from that entry price point. Maybe they're making room for Lorus and Pulsar to avoid cannibalising their own market share.
I do keep looking at Seikos and then buying Orient, the savings are just too big to ignore.
Yeah, I go back to the SARB033. It was a very big seller; 1. It was JDM and was very well made. 2. The price was right. I paid around $375.00, which included shipping from Japan. 3. The quality of its build was so high that it made you look forward to the next Seiko product. Not so much now. I've seen complaints never before associated with the Seiko brand, not to mention high prices.
I noticed it myself especially when considering them discontinuing the skx and replacing it with more expensive options.
Seiko is a large company with multiple watch making divisions. What Seiko is doing like all brand oriented companies is moving the Seiko brand up market and charging more, as well as, increasing its profits. At the same time, Seiko is using its Orient division to fill the gap at the lower price part of the spectrum. Jordy will eventually understand what Seiko is doing and fall back in love with Seiko.
Jordy does understand what Seiko is doing, and it stinks. Charging more for the same quality is wrong, and is not moving the brand upmarket, it is moving the brand downmarket. Watch enthusiasts like Jordy know this, and are rightly appalled, and are rightly walking away from a bad deal. It is the newbies and the kids coming up who know no difference who will be buying watches like this. Seiko should be improving the quality and finishing of their watches when they increase their price. That is upmarketing. Oh no, they can't do that, we live in a disposable mass market world!
@@silver5986 I agree that Seiko should improve its quality. The entire Japanese manufacturing culture is based on continuous improvement in quality. If Seiko slacks off then consumers will go elsewhere, just like the American car buying public did in the 1970’s.
I am sorry but I did not understand what you complain about in this video. Pricing? Design changes? Too many models?
Seiko is a brand that’s going through an identity crisis. It doesn’t know what it wants to be.
It’s time for them to step it up. All of the Swiss market along with the German market is going up in price. It only makes sense for Japan’s favorite brand to do so as well. Unfortunate About all but reality.
I was about to throw down when you mentioned the rising prices of discontinued Seiko models (that’s normal) but afterwards when you talked about how Seiko is starting to give us less value for money, especially how they’re rebranding popular models with ones that are either similar and low-specced (Seiko 5’s) or more expensive and riding the wave of previous iterations (Prospex) - you hit the nail on the head. Forgive the previous run-on sentence, but yeah - you made some great points. It’s sad to see what Seiko is doing these days.
Even the Orient watches are getting more expensive now. I was gonna buy an orient kamasu as my first automatic watch, but I just looked at Amazon and now its $150 more than it was last month! Not sure if its still worth it or not, can't find any seikos that can compare or be a good alternative to the kamasu
I think the new generation of Kamasu’s were released quite recently and they’re upgraded. They are around $300. We’re you looking at the new generation? If not then holy mackerel! I bet that must be sellers of the older generation are looking to trick people into thinking it the newer, or just trying to ride the coattails.
@@gyrfalcon7332 i didn't realize there was a gen 2 kamasu. Just did some research into the differences and this one on Amazon is a gen 1 not a gen2
I don't know, this comes across as an old man complaint... "Things cost more than they used to!" It's inflation, all the costs are going up, and you're getting less for it. Seiko still has a lot of awesome models for very little money. Also, how many of these microbrands can exist and offer what they're offering for the price specifically because of Seiko and their NH movements? I looked into that SORY082, and there were TONS of people selling them for the same price as Marc from LIW. Some of those places still have it in stock, or the similar SORY132 at the same price point. I didn't see anyone listing it at $700, the highest was around $550. Speaking of prices, I know Seiko broke a lot of hearts by discontinuing the SKX line, and I'm sure that's where a lot of your argument comes from. The ISO dive features from those watches now all go in the Prospex line and it costs more. I can understand Seiko's move here, it was a smart business decision. Obviously there was far more value in those watches than what Seiko charged for them. I see SKXs now going for $500+, and people are still snapping them up. Seiko could have charged that kind of money up front and people would have paid it. But you can get the Prospex watches those ISO dive features moved to for less money than that, and they're arguably giving you even more than an SKX. Yeah, I can understand some of the frustration, but I'm not sure I can understand the sentiment of not buying Seiko anymore.
Yep, food, fuel and shelter costs have dramatically increased worldwide over the last 3 years and continue to increase....but I want my seikos at the same prices as five years ago😂
Micro brand also don't have the same design language. I've never seen one that tops Seiko's aesthetic at the same price point.
I switched to Orient. Just bought the RK-AY0002S. I also have the RA-AC0K03L with a yellow strap. I am very happy with both of them. The SPB209j1 I have is beautiful but could be more a bit accurate for what I paid.
Seikos are getting overpriced and their designs are rather uninteresting imo
So after over half a century of swearing I'd never buy a watch over 50 bucks, a coworker showed me one of his Seikos and it was the gateway watch for me into this addictive hobby. In retrospect, it may have been either a SKX or a 5KX, I don't remember, I just know I had to have one, and now I have several 5KX's (sorry). Then I went into a brick and mortar jewelry store and saw some Grand Seiko's that blew...my...mind. Yes. Seiko is truly evil incarnate.
I still love my Seiko Samurai - Save the Ocean. The dial is one of the most beautiful dials ever.
No Jory, Seiko is the best.
I think Seiko made some good moves. For one... $800 is the new $400 (inflation). Also, because the huge number of Seiko watches offered, it was difficult for the casual watch buyer to determine the difference in quality between models unless they are a watch aficionado and/or did a bunch of research. Most people are buying online (site unseen), so there unable to compare side by side. Now, it's easy for the average consumer to shop by style, quality, features, and price-point.
I'm not sure what you're talkin about. Just look at the Seiko Monster Happy Feet dial that want you can get for under $400. Look at the new US Special Edition released Turtles, the orange cracked shell in the blue cracked shell watches you can find those for sub $600, 500 bucks. So I don't know what you are talkin about that and interesting seiko has to be over $1,000. You can get a cocktail time for under $400. So again not really sure what you're on about here bud
I get your point, and mostly agree but before you walk away, take a look at the SRPJ33. If you’re patient, you can find them for just under $400. If it were “Swiss made”, I imagine it would be $1000 all day everyday. I love the hell out of mine ❤
If you start criticizing Watch companies for raising prices and lowering quality, where’s it going to end? (I’m looking at you, IWC Engineer)😮
Totally agree with your comments on Seiko…I just bought a Certina ds active diver and its an amazing watch for the price! I got the 43mm and it is large, but soooo much value for under 1k.
The worst atrocity for me was the 5KX. I was not able to recover from that. I bought used legit SKX and restored them instead.
I don't really see the problem, they are trying to move up now, especially with the Presage line. Some of the more expensive ones are very nice, but also getting into Tissot & Longines territory. Whether they are gaining in entry level Swiss price point who knows. The Seiko 5's are still an inexpensive entry level watch and are on par with Citizen, Orient etc in terms of price. Fair enough you don't like them, but lots of people do. For me, the only issue I have is that they are moving in to the price range of some of the Swiss brands, but they don't look as good. I like the Tissot Gentleman more than a Presage Sharp Edge series for example.
They are moving up and thats alright but what I keep hearing is the quality has stayed the same or got worse. Citizen is creating better quality for the same price point at Sekio.
Personally I like that they are also moving up, but quality should match price point. Sekio is known for value.
Hopefully it still remains best values for buck as sekio moves up closer to luxury... but right now I hear quality is just not there or not catching up..
Depends. The Sharp Edge Series are more unique looking watches. Tissot Gentleman looks very bland/safe. The case polishing looks nicer on the Seiko as well and the dial is more textured. That's what you are paying for.
I purchased a Manta ray, wore it for one/one day and it died. In addition, engraved on the inside of the case back is the country of origin; “China.”
The limited editions are what chap my ass. There have been a number of them that I would have paid the $1200 price tag for. They were just unobtainium.
I don't get your point. Seiko has long not been the best value for money regarding specs, so it depends on what enthusiasts are looking for. Great dials, including hand-crafted enamel? Hard to bypass Seiko. Brand history, promise and values? Seiko is hard to beat outside of Switzerland. Resale value? Outside of tiny microbrand communities Seiko is your best bet (out of experience). Specs like sapphire, hackability, solid bracelet? Orient and microbrands are ahead. What do you want or expect from YOUR watches? Decide and buy what is right for you.
Plus in addition the 1960s style Seiko presage watches you can find for way under $400. And they are absolutely beautiful. So again if Seiko wants to move upmarket because they want their brand status to grow that's their prerogative but they're also still very much involved in the affordable segment
They probably turned him down as an authorised dealer. This guy just says scammer to me.
Here is the problem, for someone looking for a watch with a unique and beautiful dial, Seiko is simply the best option out there, Bulova, Orient and Citizen simply cannot compete in this regard, which is why so many people sill buy, and will continue to buy Seiko watches. Their dials are unmatched for the price. I do agree that Orient and Citizen make better priced watches, especially dive watches, but they don't have the personality that many Seiko watches do, I just bought a Seiko 5 Sports SRPD71, and the dial is better than any dial I could find in the price range of 300-400 NZD
I continue to love Seiko, but I kind of have gone completely the other way. Instead of buying a new Seiko at £1,000 price-point, I'm instead seeking out really nice and interesting semi-vintage models, and paying the equivalent to have them professionally restored at a watchmakers.
Just picked up a beautiful 1976 Bell Matic, and 1975 Actus SS. Both have been professionally serviced and are like new for slightly under the price of a Prospex line watch, are FAR more interesting and arguably will end up more collectable...
It's obvious that seiko want to move more up market, however years of youtube channels stateing how seiko is comparable to Swiss at 2-3 times the price doesn't help.
I’m with you most of the way I think the whole world is going insane though it’s not just Seiko
So I’ve only been really into watches for like 5 years so I realize I’m a novice. But I disagree with all the seiko hate. First I know everyone loves the SKX, but the 7S movement was lacking and the 4R35/36 is an objectively better movement. There’s a ton of different dials and color ways and most 5KX can be had for around 200-300. And the new alpinist and baby alpinist are still grade watches at the price point. For mid $600s you get a great watch with the same design as the original SARB with a 70hr power reserve and a 6R movement. That’s a great deal to me. Also the majority of the microbrand use the NH movement shared with the 5KX!
I have my OG SKX007J and my latest purchase, a Sumo SPB103J1, I'll probably pick up a Sarb or a Sarx at some stage on the secondary market
Looked at SNR035. My god, price tag was 5500usd 🤪
Stopped buying Seikos a while ago. They watered down their entire lineup and jacked the prices up. There are far better value propositions out there. Buy a San Martin for $300-400 and see for yourself how much it blows Seiko away in terms of specs, quality, and finishing. Plus they have a million different models to choose from. Plenty of micro brands out there that deliver great value as well.
I bought myself two Seiko 5s , pre-Covid, absolute stunners, for 80 euros each.
Today I saw they now cost 200.
OK, the lure of the Seiko 5 is now gone.
It had a basic but reliable automatic mechanism and looks that could rival the most expensive watches for beauty.
"Poor man's Rolex?"
Sure but you did not feel poor wearing them you felt proud and classy.
Been wearing one of them ever since, the one with the grey sunburst dial, the other one with a champagne-like sunburst grey sitting in my drawer, was a really really tough choice.
Too bad they killed them like they did, too bad.
But I have mine and seems to me like I will do whatever to keep it running for as long as it can.
First of all, Let me state that i started my watch journey on Seikos. I have loved them for 20 years.
But now, i have come to hate what they are doing. I have all but one left, simply because it wouldnt fetch much money, and also it is actually an accurate piece (I count that lucky), so I use it as a tool watch and it is nice as that.
Some points here.
The movement in their $800-$2000 or even $3000 range is a shame.
First of all, there isnt any proper promise of accuracy, beyond an extremely vague range of something like -25 to + 30 seconds on even their newer movements. Supporters will defend it by saying that it is better in real life. Fine, but so am i expected to buy it like i buy lottery?
Misaligned bezels, and even Index Markers can be seen on $800 to $1200 diver models.
They love to come up with a million limited edition models, which all looks like a giant circus now. A thinly veiled attempt to jack up prices all round and get you all FOMOed about it.
People say Swiss is overrated, overpriced.
I disagree to a large extent.
Just take one example, the Tissot Gentleman 80. For the price of like $700-$800, it trashes Seikos twice that price for movement, built, and quality control. Plenty more examples around.
I’m one of those weirdos who never bought Seiko for value reasons. I always bought them for the looks, the spirit, the history, the coolness
I like the "5KX" people complain about the water resistance being 100meters instead of 200 while 99% of those people never have and never will scuba dive lol. Never mind people use dive computers now. The 5KX also comes with a better movement than the skx...
When brands consolidate, it's no surprise that they resegment their offerings to change the perception of the brands they own. Whatever affordability Seiko had is moved to Orient, and tries to compete with the likes of Tissot and Mido instead. If anything, if you still want to enjoy the Seiko offerings, 2nd hand is where it's at. Enjoying my 5Hz Lord Marvel piece at around 300 bucks, and it's a living wonder where there is 5Hz watches in the 1970s, and that came from Seiko.
In the 80s I could not bring myself to buy a Seiko when Citizen had a great watch that I had to shop for 2 years to get at a fair price. After that I never paid attention to the Seiko brand for decades. Today, I would rather buy an Orient than a low end Seiko. The high end Seiko's are too high in price to justify the trickle down technology in them from Credor/GS. To me a SS Rolex is overpriced for what it is, paying for brand recognition and fake scarcity marketing. GS has and is made some superb watches that I would buy, but they did them as limited editions and are unobtainable, which is really annoying. From this great video it seems like this Rolex like ploy is in the Seiko brand also.
Meh what we should stop is listening to people on UA-cam
I live in the UK so my apologies if this isn't representative of elsewhere. There are still bargains to be had with Seikos either oline by waiting, or if you can't wait, talk to the ADs direct about discounts. Being ADs they have to abide by certain rules especially when it come to the luxury brands and can't advertise any discounts when not authorised to do so. You are probably better off with the small, more independent jewelers where decisions can be made quickly. I've just bought a 43mm safari edition automatic tuna for £370 normally £520. A friend taught me to do this when he got a huge discount on a cartier.
You hit the current Seiko market on the head. I've been modding my favorite Seiko dials and handsets, cases etc., because the market makes it more logical. Your watch is hand built with your choices and aha an aligned chapter ring and bezel to boot.
I'm one of the fortunate people who started watch collecting years ago. Shame for people just starting with the lack of value for money now.
Yeah, I agree completely!
I went into the hobby deep in 2019, just about the time when the SKX was still available and the Turtle was starting to pop on Creationwatches for like 280$.
I remember seeing the SARB017 and SARB033 for around 300 and thinking "I can`t afford it now but, maybe in a couple of years" - and we all know how that went... Alpinist 700$, Turtles for 550-600$... I still plan to get one(the Turtle I mean), but I am almost 100% sure that I will never spend 700 on an Alpinist.. I prefere to save up just a little more and the the Capitan Willard... and honesty these 2 are the only Seiko watches that I want / plan to get.
These days if one is interested in having fun on an affordable side of things, the only proper options are Orient, Casio, Timex and probably Citizen.
And I am a bit disappointed, the new pricing is justified by the history and the quality for the products - no argument there, but it`s like loosing a friend... strange feeling... I ramble too much!
Great video man!
Thanks!
I'm just curious, but wasnt it Seiko that started the fine art of watchmaking, so why would they put swiss made on their products, if they're products are better or as good as?
Jordy does understand what Seiko is doing and it stinks. Charging more for the same quality is wrong, and is not moving the brand upmarket, it is moving the brand downmarket. Watch enthusiasts like Jordy know this, and are rightly appalled, and are rightly walking away from a bad deal. It is the newbies and the kids coming up who know no difference who will be buying watches like this. Seiko should be improving the quality and finishing of their watches when they increase their price. That is upmarketing. Oh no, they can't do that, we live in a disposable mass market world!
I sold all my Seiko's years ago. I'm about to purchase this Citizen. Citizen Eco-Drive Promaster Land Altichron Men's Black Dial Watch BN4044-15E. Was considering this Seiko but not for $1K. Prospex Automatic Black Dial Stainless Steel Men's Watch. Most of my favorite watches in my collection are the Timex's, older Time, Temp, Compass and chrono's GMT's with upto 4 complications per watch. A very busy dial, but functional. I do have several Luminox's as well that are in my collection.
I’m a more recent Seiko collector, so I don’t get the issue. Bought a Presage Cocktail Time, a Presage GMT, and a Willard over the past year. Got a great deal, there are no QC issues, and I love all three. I guess they have gotten more expensive, but I wouldn’t pay retail prices for any watch, including Seiko. Things change, but they're still great watches.
Wise words from a wise man.
I think if orient starts hitting out some great divers in the 39-40 size they will really gain a bigger following.
The Mako 2 is outstanding at 41mm. It's a great watch for the price.
@@endy_fx ya they are beautiful. Still pushing closer to 42mm. I love my mako 2 USA. Prob wear it the most but wish it was the same size as my spb143. Love that size.
Everything is going up in prices 🤷🏻♂️Seiko still doing great watches for the price…I love the new 5KX its a beautiful watch and I will probably never dive with it 😂
✌🏼😎👍🏼
How could you not mention the new SKX-line? I also believe that Citizen and Orient are slowly taking Seiko's old place, but in terms of price to quality they are still unbeatable.
To me the beginning of the end for seiko was when they discontinued the sarb033. Because that watch was so successful, the boffins at head office said "hey, we're not making enough money out of this watch, let's discontinue it and start ripping people off".
Though sarb033 does not show precise time…do you have the same problem?
@@arlopoetiray5534 my 033 is as accurate as any other watch in my collection. If worn, it gains maybe 5 seconds per day. I have another 6r15 in my sarx055, and it's the same. Can't complain about that.
@@wendyandgeoffpattison2610 Thank you for the info Wendy and Geoff 🙏🏻
Vintage Seiko is where it's at. It takes some knowledge, time and research to do it properly, but the gems you find are worth it.
I have £600-£800 to spend on a watch. Which Seiko vintage is the best to buy?
What's disappointing too is they're charging more, sometimes 50-100% more for comparable watches then to now, but they aren't 50-100% better watches. Sometimes like the 5kx-es they are worse. Their straps/bracelets are still an afterthought. They could and should do better if they're going to charge a premium. If they made the 5kx-es true spec dive watches with a NH36 or better movement and a solid endlink, quality bracelet for $400-500 we would buy them. Microbrands seem to pull it off. But Seiko is focused on the mass market.
Totally agree, luckily for me I started collecting just before they turned and managed to get 3-OG models at their base prices. They ain’t what they used to be !
Hi. It pains me to admit it, but you're absolutely right. And, actually, there's more... I'm in the process of selling every Seiko in my collection because I've lost trust in them. Seiko was one of my favorite watch brands but I'm just fed up with the lack of QC and sh1tty movements going wild after random periods of time. I might give them one last chance with a solar quartz. Meanwhile, I'm rediscovering Orient and Citizen, great brands I kind of ignored when I was obsessed with Seiko. Best regards. Martial.
I own the SARB 033, 035, 017, SKX013, SNK809 (along with other sport Seiko’s)and my last Seiko purchase was a SARG009. I don’t see buying anymore since the new ones I like are in the $1,000-$1,500 starting range and I’d really have to be impressed to add to this collection. I also have Hamilton, Christopher Ward, Tudor and Rolex but when it comes to the new Seikos I just don’t see the value for dollar upgrade from my present collection.
Prices went up, sure...there is yearly inflation of about 9%. Past 10 years with an average of 6% and it is even raising. So prices will just go up. I have checked the price of the Prospex Turtle which is including the VAT at the price of 350€ (with some digging even 10% cheaper), which seems a fair price. My first Alpinist was at the price of 250€ in 2007, that is 15 years ago. I bought the new version last year for the price of 580€ which was regarding the inflation 30% cheaper than the first one, so it was a good deal. The current price of Alpinist is 740€ which is still a bit cheaper than then in the year 2007.
the same thing happened to Casio watches, on the older watch you got a ton of functions (timer, temperature, world timers and more) , the new ones you pay a lot more for less functionality, and to get the same! functions you have to pay even more!
I have sure slowed down buying Seikos. Orient and a slew of micro brands have taken over supplying collectors with solid values.
They are moving up and thats alright but what I keep hearing is the quality has stayed the same or got worse. Citizen is creating better quality for the same price point at Sekio.
Personally I like that they are also moving up, but quality should match price point. Sekio is known for value.
Hopefully it still remains best values for buck as sekio moves up closer to luxury... but right now I hear quality is just not there or not catching up..
I think that Citizen is the best watch for quality, value, style, and uniqueness. I think that they're the NEW people's champion! It's right there in the name: Citizen.
True, I have Citizen 7 from 90's era compared to Promaster Eco-Drive Chronograph and their precision are practically not different, even in days, not to mention that Cit7 was never serviced
Citizen is a good... I still have my dad's 30yr Citizen.. but I'm a Seiko guy. Citizen are the only watches I'll buy. But I'm a Seiko is my go to
Bulova once had magnificent watches that were simple but very much made with purpose. I bought so many marine star watches innthe early 1990’s. Today’s bulova watches are not the same. Such a shame.
Seiko has abandoned those looking for value watches. Fortunately, micro-brands are doing a great job replacing them.
If there were another company making reasonably price urushi ceramic watches, I would buy it. But is there one? Ricoh? An on-sale used urushi is the only reason to buy a Seiko. OTherwise there are so many great companies.
The Blue Alpinist was when Seiko started taking a nose dive into ridiculousness.