AR 15 and 6mm ARC! - Season 2: Episode 24
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast!
00:00 - Intro
00:27 - Tips or Tricks for an over-the-counter elk hunt in Colorado
03:30 - Moser 8x57
05:26 - Comparison of the 416 Ruger vs 375 Ruger
08:24 - 6mm ARC Cartridge
12:34 - AR 15 vs Current AR's
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
I love Ron's sense of humor
Whoever asked that ELK question about and eastern boy starting to hunt out west was a question I had thanks for asking it
I went with grendel a few years back and it works well for deer. With the large overlap between that at 6 ARC, I won’t be picking a barrel up until I see ARC become way cheaper and more plentiful.
I own several 6mm ARC's. I really enjoy shooting and hunting with it. However, If I owned a 6.5 Grendel first, I wouldn't even consider the 6mm ARC. Performance is way too close to warrant the cost of a new rifle and ammo. Especially in this hyper-inflated market. But it's your money so do what you want.
If anyone has any doubts about the 6mm ARC, I took my first deer with the cartridge last season. It was a clean shot at 170 yards, both lungs and good expansion at the exit. He dressed out at 178 pounds and made it about 12 yards before he dropped. And these south east Georgia swamp deer are known for running 50 or more yards with a 308 in their hart/lungs. And forget about a Georgia coyote, 6 ARC drops them cold in there tracks. GET A 6 ARC!!!!!
I live in southeast GA, and I've done, and seen both running deer, and dropping deer with my 30-06.
But I can confirm, hit them in the neck or go find them.
I don't know what makes them so hardy.
I live in Georgia as well, but I use a .308, or my 350 legend ar15.. I always try to shoot top of shoulder where the central nervous system is, and have honestly never had to go find a deer. I would rather loose a pound or two of shoulder/back strap then lose the whole deer. The neck can be tricky, if the bullet doesn’t expand it can stun it, or if you don’t hit the spine it can definitely get away. Most of the time yes it works but I would never try a neck shot more than 50-100yards but that’s just me. Unless I’m feeling super good about it! We should all 3 link up and go hunt! Lol
@@JAKEfromGEORGIA yeah the spine is a good shot, I didn't specify distance because SE Georgia is so wooded, and flat you can hardly stretch the legs on most hunting cartridges, neck shots inside 50yd.
I think the longest hunting shot I've taken was a spine shot on a doe, out on a cotton field that had been harvested, right under 200yds (like 190yds gps measured).
I aimed at the very top hairs of the back, the doe was facing towards my left, no wind, cool morning, In trough the left side, with a Sierra game king, it started to expand when it hit the lower half of the spine, and shattered it, then the mangled bullet (or whatever was left) continued out trough the other side with bone fragments. Fun times!
We could link up depending on y'all's range, I live in the Alma, Baxley, Blackshear area.
how well does the 6arc preserve the fur on that yote? I would think that the 87 grain Vmax would work quite well if you can keep it from exiting
What bullet where you using for the deer? I have been considering the ARC for a coyote gun that the kids can use to deer hunt with.
You have 450 bushmaster, .458 socom and .50 beowulf. All developed to do similar but different things. Bushmaster strictly as a hunting round and the other two basically taking the ar15 to it's maximum dimensions and needing to immobilize engines
Ron, great comments on hunting the west. Thin air and steep country almost mandate getting in the best shape that one can. Yes, I know round is a shape 😅. But the better physical shape, the easier it is to enjoy that beautiful country and the easier it is to pack out that elk. I've always talked to people about getting in to mental shape. The west, as you know, can be big lonely country and some people get freaked out by that. You are giving great advice and it warms my heart to hear an expect give the advice I've been preaching. Keep up the good work.
Cheers, Jeff.
For target shooting, 6.5 Grendel matches the .308 Winchester and 6mmARC leaves it in the dust. For deer hunting, both work as good as anything else. Not too shabby.
I'm a huge fan of the AR15 and the 6mm ARC but I definitely agree with what you're saying you have to know there's limitations going into that platform... The 223/556 cartridge has a lot of uses and it's a great cartridge but when you want to shoot long range or hunt with an AR15 there's better options. I started with a 6.5 Grendel shooting long range and I still hunt with the Grendel now but after building a 6mm ARC I loved it so much I had a bolt gun built to see how far I can push it. As of now at least to me the 6mm ARC is king of the hill when it comes to the AR15 platform and shooting long range but for hunting purposes I still like the old Grendel then comes the 223/556 for self defense. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Yes…I have an 8mm-06 … an old Mauser rechambered as you say. 👍😉
Thanks Ron . I look forward to the next one.
Great advice Ron. One's attitude is the most important aspect of many things. Without it, success is never as sweet!
I took a lucky and I think now reckless shot and with a .270 I hit the top of the heart at 500 yards. I was with a military guide who wanted me to consider 600 yards which I passed. We did have time to talk about the shot and I was pretty much benched and conditions were perfect. We found my 150 grain partition expanded and inside the cage. It did break a rib going in . After I realized that I felt guilty pulling the trigger and wished I had a 7mm. It depends to me , but if you have the want for the hunt,the determination and good physical health many calibers are fine, probably even the 3030 if placed well. I quit smoking and didn't bring the Jack Daniels with and at least 100 rounds through my rifle , so it was my determination stupid luck that helped get that bull. 😎
Always entertaining always informative, thanks for the knowledge 🤠👍
All praises to Eugene Stoner and James Sullivan! Typical overall length for .223/5.56 is 2.25", however you can use 10 and even 20 round "open faced" magazines and load to magwell length.. Typically ~2.400" It would be especially useful in 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel, I mean if you're looking to hunt with it (even varmint only) how many rounds do you really need in one magazine? AR to me no longer stands for Armalite Rifle.. It's America's Rifle, has been for a few decades and will forever be! It is by far the most versatile platform/design there has ever been/will be.. From 22lr to 50bmg and everything in between have been chambered in an AR style rifle (many with at least some interchangeable parts) Ron, you should get a Noreen Firearms BN36X3 Custom barreled in .280 AI :) Large framed w̶o̶m̶e̶n̶ Firearms deserve Love to! Thanks for another great Q&A!
Some good info. Thank u .
Thank you 😊
Well said sir! More points for the Johnny Cash reference.
Nice love it.
Another great commentary! Just to add a point to your comments on a western hunt. Get in shape. The elevation change is hard on a person even if in shape and if not-- -- well you will be miserable. Lastly, as we get older, we learn to enjoy the hunt / adventure. It becomes more important than the filling of the tag. I have eaten a lot more tags than big game in recent years but still had some great hunts. Thanks again for your efforts. Keep it up!
323 is the Standard 318 is long gone there are still some really old G98 out there but they are rare they were build till 1904
318 is 8x57I (I = Infanterie) with a round Nose Bullet
323 is 8x57IS ( IS = Infanterie Spitz)
The Name says the Bulletform 😀
that was one of the Standard Questions in the exam for the Hunting Lisence here in Germany 😜 there are way more Bullet Options out there for .323 than for .318 and yes 8x57IS is perfect for all Hunting it doesnt have the best Trajactory but for the typical Woodhunts or Short Range Driven Hunts here in Europe it is a golden Standard that can handle shorter Barrels like the 308 Win with the right Choice of Powder and doesnt destroy meat 180gn Bullets lead are the sweet Spot for the 8x57IS / leadfree there are also 160gn out there which works great and also give you flatter Trajactorys with more ft/s (Barnes TTSX is available in 160gn and so on ....) and it is like the 308 easy to Supress with smaller Supressors
Bigger Calibers often needs bigger Cans for the same Noise Reduction / so short Barrel (51cm 20 inch) plus Supressor is the way to go for the 8x57IS in a Hunting Rifle
The 8x57IS has become way more popular The last 20 Years than it was before all Rifle Manufacturers chamber it here in Europe. Until round about 2000 it was on the way to die but with more and more Wildboar and the popularity of Driven Hunts it has become more and more Popular, Recoilwise it is for me softer to shoot than a 30.06 with more or the same Energy on ranges till 300 yards it is more of a push instead of a punch on the Shoulder, hard to descripe but i think many Hunters understand what i say it is easier to handle
The point of 6arc is military use, it was developed in partnership with DOD. Seal team 6 doesn’t want bolt guns they want light weight and efficient
6mm ARC was made to replace AR10s for Recce Ops . Barrett REC7 6mm ARC fully kitted out is 3 to 5 pounds lighter than SR25 . The external Ballistics are superior to the 7.62N as well .
Squadrons at Dam Neck are also using 6mm ARC in short barrels like 12.5 . They are finding it to be very versatile Cartridge that covers a lot of needs . Whether that's short or longer barrel configs.
6mm ARC was not designed to replace their Bolt Action Sniper Rifles. It was designed to increase the lethality of the AR15 platform at distance. 556n is a joke trying to engage targets past 300m . They needed something in the AR15 platform that could reach out 600m+. Some if not all Squadrons at Dam Neck are using MK22 / Barrett MRAD in 300 PRC .
The .30-06 was developed for military use. Why is it still around?
@@ShittyNapkins 30-06 is still around because an excellent cartridge that can be used to hunt almost anything on planet earth .
30-06 was still being used in Nam . Famous USMC named Carlos used Winchester Model 70 Chambered in 30-06 as his primary Sniper Rifle .
Theres so many awesome cartridge we use use today that are based off 30-06 . Bullet and case technology is insane these days .
30-06 has been dropping mamimals since 1906..
I always thought a .416 necked down to .35 would make a wonderful North American large game cartridge. Ive had great luck with the .35 Whelen and always thought with the .416 necked down I could get a little more range and velocity .....alas Ive never seen or heard of such an animal so if you wanted one you would have to build one. I would do it with a model 70
It's not what you want exactly, but I think the 358 Norma Magnum would give you the kind of performance you're after.
Hi Ron, about the 8x57, the 8x68s{ shuller} is a much better cartridge all round, & also very popular in Europe... cheers from Australia...
I remember back in the 90's, all the gun/hunting writers were saying 338 for moose and elk.
Armalite was part of Fairchild Aircraft Company.
You want an over the counter rifle tag in Colorado? Good luck.
You almost certainly won't get an elk unless you're on private and that's the best chance for a tag.
The AR was designed in full auto from the get go, it's why the .223 was developed like it was. For civilian, and modern semi auto doctrine purposes the 6ARC is a great replacement candidate. Got a pronghorn at 260 a few years ago and it's 2700-2800 fps 200gn round. I would not stretch it must past a white tail but it's a good all round civil defense/home defense/light-medium game cartridge with phenomenal accuracy and reloading potential (
I think Ron needs to dive deeper in 6.5 Grendel. It has the same ballistic trajectory as a .308. I think it would be an interesting comparison (6.5 versus .308).
Wouldn’t a better comparison be with the same caliber bullet, with the 260 Rem.?
Ron has discussed the 6.5 Grendel in other videos. They pop right up with a search.
@@rexhamilton6381 yes but I’ve never seen him compare the .308 to a 6.5. I don’t think he’s aware when you go to 6.5 in the Grendel you get .308 ballistics!!! Neck 7.62 nato to 6.5 and you get .300 win mag performance.
I think these numbers would interest Ron I just don’t think he fully understands the advantages and purposes behind the AR. He particularly seems ignorant of the AR-10 which shoots plenty of cartridges he likes including that 7mm Rem Mag he won’t shut up about!!!
@@johnnash5118 your missing the whole point of what im saying!!! The 6.5 Grendel can replicate the .308 Winchester with far less recoil greater accuracy and range. A comparison of .260 to 6.5 Grendel makes no sense. You could compare .260 Remington to .300 win mag but the 6.5 always bumps you up several “power levels”
👍👍
Yeah, your in trouble bub!!!🙄😁
243WSSM fits an AR15 and uppers are available. 100-200fps higher than 243.
would love to learn about the .32 winchester special, and all the other .32 calibers out there
First lesson is that it's actually a 32 caliber and pretty much every other 32 is a .312
In elk country watch out for Sabe . Is 17 Rem. dead or alive ? American 8mm mauser ammo is loaded down . S & B makes good ammo for 323 bore.
"I like my rifles like I like my women slim and trim."
I'm just like you in that way Ron and just like you. I have one that is feisty enough to scare the devil out of me. When I say something she takes umbrage with. Yep I squirm just like you did.
I have killed two of the biggest bears every taken in Michigan. Did it at just mere feet, in the deepest darkest cedar swamps you have ever seen and did it with a handgun. I have raced Moto-X and jumped from airplanes done it all fearlessly. But that little women with just a look can make my blood run cold. ~~~burr shiver~~~~
I think Armalite was specificaly set up as a independent Designer for other Companies, the Military and even foreign Governments.
Correct me if I'm wrong but back when Eugene Stoner designed the m-16/Ar-15 family of rifles the Company he worked for Armalite was a division of Fairchild aviation company. It was a private company. The military at time had government arsenals, one most notablebly Springfield armory. Not to be confused with Springfield Armory of today which is a private company. The main difference between m-16 and AR-15 is the fire control group. Both use the same gas system as you described, which is called direct gas impingement. It was Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara who was instrumental in the adoption of the m-16 which became standard in 1965. Robert McNamara was a "whiz kid" everything by the numbers. He liked Stoner's design because the design reflected the use of the Scientific method. During the early 60's before Vietnam we had advisors in Vietnam few of them had the early m-16 before it was standardized. The m-16 had teething issues because they rushed them into service in Vietnam. In Vietnam the 5.56 or .223 had a bad habit of jamming and having live rounds stuck in the chamber. What was happening in Vietnam due to the humidity live rounds were swelling inside the chamber if left in there overnight. Also the Army was using their own powder for the 5.56 round rather than what the 5.56 was originally designed for. The Army did this to give 5.56 more chooch. The result of this was more fouling and carbon build up. This also caused jam ups. Eventually malfunctions were happening so frequently that eventually there was a congressional hearing. Soldiers were trying to field strip and clear malfunctions in the middle of firefights. Guys were getting killed because of this.. The Army slowly started issuing cleaning kits, started manufacturing chrome lined barrels and chambers and added the forward assist. In the congressional investigation Robert McNamara told Congress that the m-16 cleans itself, and the m-16 didn't need cleaning kits or chrome lined barrels. Eugene Stoner argued against Robert McNamara during the congressional investigation.
Thanks for the detailed history, Eggo! I remember some of that, esp. the hearings.
I qualify on a M16A1 (full auto) every year. We use great big paper clips to keep the human silhouette targets in place. Why use the clips? Because I don't want to have to blood trail paper targets for miles.(5.56) Just kidding. Enjoyed this one. Still not a fan of hunting with the AR platform, but I think I would like the 6mm a lot better than 5.56. Thanks for the content.
6mm arc would make a great military round to replace the 5.56
I don't know if it will replace it yet, we're not in time of war, the 5.56 is so cheap, and the 6 hasn't been properly proven yet, it's heavier, has more recoil, it's bigger so you can't carry as much ammo.
I'm not saying it won't replace the 5.56, I'm just saying there has to be a push to get it adopted, you know how the military likes to dick around with new, better, and experimental things, just to drop it in the end, for one reason or another, or no reason at all.
After all if they adopt it, they wouldn't have to rechamber a hand full of rifles, they have to rechamber millions, and that would be ridiculously expensive too.
Also they might go ahead and do away with the m4\m16 series of rifles, for something newer, and better in 6mm, and that would take even longer to adopt, in that time something even better might come along, who knows.
@@linkbond08Oh I doubt it would happen in the next +10 years if at all.
@@drewriggs812 The DOD put in a large order for Barrett rifles last year chambered in 6arc for one of the Special Operations units. It was big news last year and they never said exactly who was getting them. I seem to recall that it may be one of the SEAL units though. And I guess you haven't heard, but the Army just awarded a contract to SIG for their "next generation squad weapon" and new light machine gun to eventually replace the M4 and M249. Both are chambered in the new .277 Fury aka 6.8x51. It's close to the case dimensions or the 308 Winchester, but they took a little taper out of the case and bumped the shoulder forward about .050 or so looking at the case drawings. The interesting thing is it's a new "hybrid" case design by SIG that uses a stainless steel base allowing higher pressure.... 80,000 psi SAAMI high lol The new rifle to replace the M4 is the SIG XM5, and replacing the M249 is the SIG XM250. They're saying the new platforms will start being issued by the end of next year. They'll probably start with something like the 75th Ranger Regiment then slowly get them out to everyone else over several years. it may take 10 years to completely faze out the M4 completely. After they are in service, the "X" will drop off and become the M5 and M250..... Our next generation of military small arms.
@@chrisrosenthal1210 that .277 Furry is a pretty sweet concept. With that high pressure it is punching well above it's weight class. I wanted a Sig Cross in that, but they are not available yet as far as I know. I thought that DOD ordered 6.8SPC in the new sig rifle.
@@drewriggs812 The 277 Fury is also called 6.8x51. That will probably be the official designation if NATO ever adopts it. If you look on Sig's site, they have an all brass cased version of the 277 Fury also that is loaded to normal pressures btw. But no, the Fury is the new caliber. A lot of the earlier press releases just said 6.8 which confused everyone. As far as the cross, Not sure I'm sold on that. It's set up like an AR with all the barrel to receiver shortcomings, which is not the greatest design for accuracy. For the money, I think I'd rather have a nice heavy bolt type action, like a Defiant, mounted on a chassis. Gives you more options later as far as replacing parts or changing the set up. That's just me though.
I've got nine AR, I love them they're so versatile I've got some in pistol-forum 10 inch barrel 556. I've got some in 300 Blackout which is surprisingly quiet I've also got a couple of AR-10. My favorite AR is the 50 caliber Beowulf oh, I like to use the Underwood Ammo 350g solid CNC copper round. 2900 foot-pounds. It's my favorite AR hog hunt. I pulled the trigger and they just drop. I was very surprised with my friend had a 556 AR with 55 green tip steel core. Immediately drop the hog. Over my experience I've come to realize that one AR can't do everything. I have a plethora of ARS because each one is specific task. I love my retro ars, their leight weight and sends those super fast down rangr
Ron, would like to hear what you think of the Cva Cascade?
I was impressed with the one I test drove on a range last year.
The 6mm ARC was designed for military application to meet a specific requirement. That contract dictated it was to be used in the AR15 platform, again, military application. The 6mm ARC was needed to kill human beings more effectively, at longer ranges, than the current 5.56 can. The military contract had weight and size limitations, and that eliminated the 7.62 NATO AR10 platform. The military also wanted a heavier bullet than the 5.56 can effectively shoot and capable of remaining supersonic beyond 1000 yards. Hornady developed the 6mm ARC in collaboration with Proof Research Rifle barrels and Barret Firearms manufacturing. It meets all these criteria, and then some more. Hornady then smartly leveraged this time and effort in R&D and released it to the civilian market. Now, people question why we 'need' another AR cartridge... we don't 'need' this cartridge at all. There are others that will work just fine for most of what we need. However; the 6mm ARC was developed, and is now available for the civilian market, because of this military need, so we might as well take advantage of what it offers. I have built (3) AR15's in 6mm ARC and they are fantastic at what they do! I have a 12", 16" and 18" barreled rifles. So far they have performed amazingly well at killing wild hogs, coyotes, bobcats, and shooting paper and steel at the range, both short and long range. It really can do just about everything. Again, we didn't 'need' another AR15 cartridge, but the military did so it exists.
The bushmasters isn't 458 it's actually 452. I think the 50 Beowulf is actually the biggest
6 ARC sounds amazing. Too bad we can not find: ammo, brass, dies, etc.
I would have loved to build my new AR in 6 ARC but it would be pretty worthless without ammo.
The ongoing ammo shortage is indeed frustrating.
Do you reload? It's a new Hornady round, they won't let it die lol They're going to try and push it to success if at all possible. You can find brass for it. There's a lot of good bullet choices in 6mm too.
I don't like this cartridge. They should have used the 6.8 SPC case. Get more rounds in a mag. Going from 30 down to 20 (vs 25) was always a shortcoming for the 7.62x39 and 6.5 Grendel. Hornady must be superstitious.
Arc require ar 10 or ar 15 lower
as a NRA certfied firearms instructor it always intrigued me how the military went from the 7.62 to 5.56 (.223) for their prefered weapon of choice. Given the humain aspect of it and all , but having served in the South African border wars, I carried the belt fed Browning 50 , 12.75mm round and that thing did not take out one enemy soldier it took out the whole platoon. So where is your argument for being more humain now? I was shot with a 5.56 in the leg and was back on the battlefield with a month , if it was a 7.62 , I would most likely not. So that is my point speaking from a military point of view why have a weapon so that you can shoot the same soldier evry second day and drag out the conflict when you can take him out for good ???
Tell all the dead people the 223 only wounds sir
Woulda been more with real bullets.