Part 4: Gnosticism and Women Heiser offers an honest examination of the supposed "pro-woman" message often ascribed to the gnostics. Is gnosticism really "enlightened" in terms of womens' roles. Looking at the actual texts the gnostics themselves wrote, their customs, rituals and spirituality, Heiser makes sense of the nonsense surrounding this ancient and mysterious religion's place for women.
Just because she, Junia, was known among the apostles does not make her an apostle, what it does say is that the apostles were well acquainted with her and that she more than likely worked along side them in ministry and/or supported them. SIMPLE..
You're absolutely right. But does it matter, given the following? Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. I think that the modern secular attitude to women, influenced by feminism, corrupts even Christians' understanding of the roles of men and women with respect to each other, while similar influences have made it a shame to be a servant. Everyone wants to be a chief - no-one to be an Indian. Which is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Christ. In our Creator's eyes, It is more blessed to give than to receive, more blessed to serve than to be served. And that is in direct contradiction to the opinions of the World. (I'm a woman by the way, and what the Word of God says about woman's role is good enough for me!)
Taken out of context.. Believing Jews and believing Gentiles have the same standing before the FATHER when it comes to salvation and the future of the Body of Christ. God still has plans for Israel (the Jewish people) so they will repent and come to Him. You really should pick up a Bible sometime, read it and believe what is written.
E Goertz But I'm not arguing with you on that, or any other point! I do pick up my virtual Bible every day and keep it open. And I believe every Word it says. So do we have a disagreement? I would not want to have a disagreement with a brother in Christ. Forgive me if I speak presumptuously - I thought I was just having a conversation....
That book he's quoting from around 40min in is only $200+... no biggie to just pick one up haha. It's really frustrating how the books that best refute mainstream BS are so damn expensive.
Organiser: Well done for standing up at the end of this session and risking the patience of those gathered to contextualise things in that way. It’s a lot to take in and you can feel the information fatigue in the room as lunch approaches. But it’s important/ vital to know what Dan Brown’s book is actually attacking. Mike Heiser is doing a really great job of dismantling it academically, but let no-one be fooled. The book is a deception, ear ticking, designed to lead sheep astray, away from The Shepherd, Jesus/Yeshua. If He is The Way, The truth, The life and no one comes to The Father ( be eternally in God’s presence) except through him, then ANYTHING, including Dan Brown’s book, that leads you away from that truth is to be exposed and avoided.
The Gnostics understood that there are multiple levels in existence; from the 12 dimensions to the 7-bodies, or Auric layers. That passage isn't referring to the physical attributes of men and women. It's speaking in regard to energies. Masculine energy is the 'spark', the doer, the mover, external and expansive. It deals with the strength of the self. The feminine is the 'creator', the maker, the stillness, internal and contracting. It focuses on the value that you place on others. You took the passage out of context and didn't read what prompted that particular answer: he was asked by his disciples about the appropriateness of women in positions of power in the congregation. So Yeshua indicated that a woman who awakens her Maleness, becoming more like the other, is in 'Heirogamy' (balanced); a completed Soul. She is therefore worthy to take her place beside him. The same applies to men who embrace the Feminine yet that wasn't the issue being put forward by the apostles.
I had thought Yeshua saying I shall lead her in order to make her male. plus. for every woman who will make her self male will enter the kingdom of heaven. Was like his way of saying women should be seen as equal to men and should seek to improve their place in the world and men should not treat them as second class humans. I agree that the quote when read literally does seem misogynistic but Yashua or Jesus was known to speak in a non direct way maybe this was one of those times. His way of saying men and women are equal in the eyes of God and that men need to start seeing them as such.
The first person in the New Testament, that Jesus picks to reveal his true identity to... is a woman of Samaria.
@49:07 There were no anti-miscegenation laws for the people. Only the King and Kohanim.
Part 4: Gnosticism and Women
Heiser offers an honest examination of the supposed "pro-woman" message often ascribed to the gnostics. Is gnosticism really "enlightened" in terms of womens' roles.
Looking at the actual texts the gnostics themselves wrote, their customs, rituals
and spirituality, Heiser makes sense of the nonsense surrounding this
ancient and mysterious religion's place for women.
Just because she, Junia, was known among the apostles does not make her an apostle, what it does say is that the apostles were well acquainted with her and that she more than likely worked along side them in ministry and/or supported them. SIMPLE..
You're absolutely right. But does it matter, given the following?
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
I think that the modern secular attitude to women, influenced by feminism, corrupts even Christians' understanding of the roles of men and women with respect to each other, while similar influences have made it a shame to be a servant. Everyone wants to be a chief - no-one to be an Indian. Which is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Christ. In our Creator's eyes, It is more blessed to give than to receive, more blessed to serve than to be served. And that is in direct contradiction to the opinions of the World.
(I'm a woman by the way, and what the Word of God says about woman's role is good enough for me!)
Taken out of context.. Believing Jews and believing Gentiles have the same standing before the FATHER when it comes to salvation and the future of the Body of Christ. God still has plans for Israel (the Jewish people) so they will repent and come to Him. You really should pick up a Bible sometime, read it and believe what is written.
E Goertz But I'm not arguing with you on that, or any other point! I do pick up my virtual Bible every day and keep it open. And I believe every Word it says. So do we have a disagreement? I would not want to have a disagreement with a brother in Christ. Forgive me if I speak presumptuously - I thought I was just having a conversation....
That book he's quoting from around 40min in is only $200+... no biggie to just pick one up haha. It's really frustrating how the books that best refute mainstream BS are so damn expensive.
Organiser:
Well done for standing up at the end of this session and risking the patience of those gathered to contextualise things in that way. It’s a lot to take in and you can feel the information fatigue in the room as lunch approaches. But it’s important/ vital to know what Dan Brown’s book is actually attacking. Mike Heiser is doing a really great job of dismantling it academically, but let no-one be fooled. The book is a deception, ear ticking, designed to lead sheep astray, away from The Shepherd, Jesus/Yeshua. If He is The Way, The truth, The life and no one comes to The Father ( be eternally in God’s presence) except through him, then ANYTHING, including Dan Brown’s book, that leads you away from that truth is to be exposed and avoided.
this series is AMAZING so far !! WOW!
I love the way he calls out Pagels for being as kooky as she is.
The Gnostics understood that there are multiple levels in existence; from the 12 dimensions to the 7-bodies, or Auric layers. That passage isn't referring to the physical attributes of men and women. It's speaking in regard to energies. Masculine energy is the 'spark', the doer, the mover, external and expansive. It deals with the strength of the self. The feminine is the 'creator', the maker, the stillness, internal and contracting. It focuses on the value that you place on others. You took the passage out of context and didn't read what prompted that particular answer: he was asked by his disciples about the appropriateness of women in positions of power in the congregation. So Yeshua indicated that a woman who awakens her Maleness, becoming more like the other, is in 'Heirogamy' (balanced); a completed Soul. She is therefore worthy to take her place beside him. The same applies to men who embrace the Feminine yet that wasn't the issue being put forward by the apostles.
Thanks for this explanation. His attitude about the Gospel of Thomas did not resonate with me.
I had thought Yeshua saying I shall lead her in order to make her male.
plus. for every woman who will make her self male will enter the kingdom of heaven.
Was like his way of saying women should be seen as equal to men and should seek to improve their place in the world and men should not treat them as second class humans.
I agree that the quote when read literally does seem misogynistic but Yashua or Jesus was known to speak in a non direct way maybe this was one of those times. His way of saying men and women are equal in the eyes of God and that men need to start seeing them as such.
But the Gnostics in general did not like women. Michael Hieser does not go over everything here
+FMLNSandinista What have you been reading that makes you think Gnostics hate women cause nothing i have read or heard has given me that impression.
He says more than one thing in his talks regarding Gnosticism in general and historically documented Gnostics as well.
Davinici code does tell you the couple in the sex scene was a married couple they were the grandparents of the main female character.
Amen! I don't need Anyone to commune with God. The Body of Christ Is the Bride of Christ Jesus. JESUS IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE! ❤🙌🏽🙏🏼