...Well now what. | Madoka Magica: Rebellion Reaction
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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I support women's wrongs- I mean, lack thereof ☝🏾
This is the only valid take from this movie.
This is so real.
Any chance you're interested in Magia Record? That series takes place between the min series and Rebellion. I really enjoyed it. Was thunking of watching it again, but there's 3 or 4 channels releasing Madoka Magica reactions currently, and I'd rather stay fresh, remembering little of the show. :P
you're so damn lucky. The next sequel movie is about to realese next year. When we have to wait 10 F years for it XD
@@kallistikaleid name all the channels for me, help out a fellow fan I beg of you
If the ending of madoca magica is bittersweet, the ending of rebellion is sweetbitter
If you pay attention, the moment Homura asks Madoka about the "scary dream" is the moment she snaps and changes her mind.
Madoka could be reunited with magical girls after becoming the Law of Cycles, but she would forever be separated from her family and friends, and even though she put up a brave front and sacrificed herself, deep down that made her sad too.
That's why Homura pulled down Madoka - she was fine with Madoka sacrificing herself as long that was what she really wanted, and she fought for that wish, but if Madoka isn't completely happy then she needed to do something. As she said, she will "keep wishing for a world where Madoka is happy", even if that means becoming her enemy.
thing is though, madoka WASN'T alone, she WASN'T far from her friends - otherwise, how could she entrust her memories to sayaka and bebe? sayaka even describes herself as madoka's secretary.
@@Shiruvi That's only because Sayaka became a Magical Girl. She could no longer interact with Hitomi, her friends from school, etc.
@@trembovanilla sayaka's still her friend though. i'll accept her missing her family, sure, but the only friends we see her have besides hitomi are all magical girls, so i disagree with the idea that losing hitomi would cause her that much grief.
@@Shiruvi Hitomi is still a close friend of hers, but that's besides the point. It is not about how much grief she would feel for any classmate in particular, and I only mentioned Hitomi and the classmates because Madoka herself talks about them in the flower scene.
@@Shiruvi she was very close to her mother and little brother too bro, even Homura talks with they in the end of the anime and was a really sad scene, I recommend you watching the ending again.
Mami vs Homura explains perfectly what Kyubey said in the show: that even if magical girls often fight for territories, Mitakihara was safe because other magical girls didn’t want to mess with Mami. She is not a magical girl you want to mess with, she is no joke. After last timeline Madoka, she’s the strongest in the group
If you do not know about Homura's abilities and she attacks first you are done for... However Mami knew that direct contact negates time stop and prepared the invisible ribbon that can dematerialise before it is attacked when she went outside of the room, like hard counter to Homura. Any other magical girl would lose here.
@@dmitriy4708 j goes to show how important experience is even if you're up against an OP opponent
I always viewed Homura as the winner of that fight since she showed mercy and didn’t shoot Mami’s soul gem. Although I’m not sure if that would have killed her or if the ribbon form would have saved her. Mami does say that she didn’t go for the kill shot and I think the English dub says something like “you could have killed me” but who knows
@@Rafa520_ nah, it's a clone so it wouldn't kill her at all. And Mami said Homura didn't go for the kill shot mean at least she care for Mami well being so that mean Homura is not evil and try to do harm and has her reason.
Its interesting because a lot of magical girls are powerful in their own rights. Some just have raw potential like Mami, others have their potential built up by other’s wishes like Madoka, and some don’t necessarily have great potential but instead very unique and lucrative powers that give them immense utility like Homura. Even with Sayaka who’s supposedly the weakest of the group, it seems to be expanded on that with time and practice she’s actually a potent foe that can be relentless with her regeneration magic. If only she realized that in one of the original timelines without falling to despair. . .
Either way, I just love the way the magic system in Madoka Magica works. Its so fun and interesting yet fair.
More like Kyubey Hell. The incubators are the ones being utterly damned to complete suffering. They bear the curses of the world now.
Good.
Oh. Is that's what happening now? Cause I was so confused
A few thoughts:
1. Just about every reactor I've ever seen is totally confused in the first 20 to 30 minutes. I have seen one think it might be a labyrinth, but that one was the exception.
2. There's a crapton of things you do not pick up from a first viewing. This has elements of psychology (Homura's familiars going "Fort! Da! with the string), elements of the book "Faust", and a bunch of other stuff that its easy to miss on the first viewing. Or miss altogether. Not everyone is familiar with Freudian psychology as an example.
3. When Homura is talking to Sayaka at the end of the film and bragging about how she's basically Satan and she might decide to end the universe ("An existence known as evil"): 1) She's fucking with Sayaka. Note the familiars are throwing tomatos at her, indicating they think she's a bad actor. She doesn't really intend to destroy the universe or be "Satan". 2) In one way though, she does regard herself as evil: She still had to go a BIT against Madoka's wish by taking the human soul out of the Goddess (Law of Cycles) Going against God is something "Satan" does and in background materials found in the first two movie extra CD's you find out Homura is not just an Orphan but she was raised in a Catholic Orphanage.
4. Homura did what she did for two reasons: 1. The flowerfield conversation with Madoka convinced her that Madoka couldn't possibly be happy as the Goddess 2. The threat of the Incubators. She knew they'd try and try again until they succeeded in reinstating the Witch System. One of the creators of the show said the Incubators are meant to show the evil of unrestricted Utilitarianism: the girls are literally just energy harvesting devices to them. Remember, also, they came really close THIS time. Only the fact they don't retain information across universes and timelines was what led them to misjudge Homura because they didn't know her original wish was all about saving Madoka and that she'd never betray her. Another magical girl almost certainly would have reacted differently.
5: The Big Question: Was Homura right in what she did? I'm in the "Homura did nothing wrong" camp. And while there is certainly evidence that Madoka wasn't happy as the Goddess (one of the songs is written from the Goddess POV and seems to indicate unhappiness/loneliness, you have the 'flower field convo' and on top of both of those things a 'concept trailer' from a few years ago states that the Goddess wasn't happy) the fact is you can argue both ways and so hopefully the new movie will finally solve this eternal argument. Certainly Homura is not a monster of selfishness: All the girls, even the ones who she has reasons to not like still get happy endings in her universe, meanwhile there's still a system (and not the 'witch' system) for collecting the curses : (seems Homura drafted Kyubey into that role) and the Law of the Cycle still operates somehow automatically. Madoka is still back with her family and friends, Homura hasn't hogged her all to herself.
6. I think this is ultimately part of some plan by Madoka. She did say she could see ALL the Universes that ever were or will be or can be. She had to have known Homura was going to do this.
7. There's two theories about how Homura gained all this power. I won't say them, I'l let others have the pleasure. And honestly it could be a combination of both the ideas. But the first one has something to do with Karmic Destiny...
This needs to be pinned ngl, as for the last thought: Homura's wish is to become strong enough to protect Madoka so she'd be as strong as Madoka too
@@LoliPeeSlurper this is the explanation i've seen most online as well and i think it makes the most sense
Oooo love this comment. Also, I love the representation of Madoka's godhood piece, which is the pink string on the spool. She wound the threads of Karmic Destiny around herself.
That was the piece Homura stole and it became the Dark Orb (Her "Demon" soul gem)...also like how she swallowed it so Kuybey could never touch it again.
One thing about your point 4.2 , because I keep thinking about it in different ways again and again over the years 🤔
Homura really fucked herself over, eh? We find out two crucial things about that situation as well. Firstly, Kyubey got the idea *from* Homura ... poor Homura, shouldn't have trusted Kyubey's new universe look and told him about the past and witches 🙈 ... but also ...
I often try to defend Homura in my mind, by thinking about the threat from the incubators, but she's fucked on that end too. There is *no general threat* that the incubators will control Madokami. It's shown they can't interfere with Madokami the way things were on the outside, Homura is literally Madokamis single weakness because of her memories. It wouldn't work to catch/trap/control Madokami, with a different magical girl, that didn't know the OG Madoka. Which bring us back to Homura really *fucking herself over* by *telling damn Kyubey* 🙈
Whether Kyubey would have known anyway (mind reading Homura, or something), is speculative but there's evidence against it. Kyubey could not figure out Homura before, and doesn't know about the universes changing either. So next time, for your own good, stay silent Homura 😭😭😭😭
@@alexschwarz4749 : As to your point about "no threat from the Incubators" It's shown they can construct a shield (That has to be destroyed from the INSIDE or else Madokakami would have done so from the outside) that literally blocks the Law of Cycles from operating on a specific soul. Remember they did this BEFORE they learned anything from their little experiment. In other words they did it with no outside help. This is because, the Incubators apparently UNDERSTAND quantum mechanics on some fundamental level that we can only dream of doing. Remember also that apparently the Incubators bodies that we see are more like probes: they are replaceable, so it's not like Madoka was killing them when she sent her energy rain. So yeah, they are going to try again and again, if someone doesn't stop them.
I love the contrast between the "I love this, this is exactly what I wanted!" and "There is something terribly wrong here..."
That's what this movie's so good at - it's making us distrust our sense of joy, just like Homura, so used to things going wrong, she's seeking the undo her perception of paradise. And then at the end, goes to extreme lengths to restore it.
To help you with the ending.
Basically, because the incubators wanted to control Madoka, Homura decided that the best course of action would be for her to use the opposite side of Madoka’s karmic energy (since it belongs to her anyway) to gain an equal amount of power as her, and she used it to split Madoka from the law of the cycles and rewrote the world so that she can live happy and safe.
Homura wants Madoka happy and safe, and she rewrote the universe as her labyrinth designed to keep Madoka safe and happy.
In Homura’s eyes, Madoka lied when she said that she is ok as a god (the flower scene, plus there is proof to this, as the end song for episodes 1&2 in the OG series is “Mata Ashita” in which Madoka sings about how much it hurts to be alone and how she lied in Homura’s face in episode 12). In her eyes Kyuubey threatening to control Madoka is a violation of her sacrifice that she made unwillingly to begin with. So, wanting the happiness and safety of Madoka, using what information she could’ve gathered from all the Madoka’s, Homura indulges in her desire to keep her safe on earth with her family and friends.
Hope this helped you understand what happened in the ending. I am serious about trying to search for a translation of “Mata Ashita” lyrics, it really is Madoka’s perspective as a god.
@22:32 you can see Mami tie the ribbon to Homura.
i never noticed that! nice cathc!
Under the first three minutes there´s multiple runes but the most important are:
"That´s a magical girl", "Miracle", "Salvation", "Law of Cycles", "Dream", and "Homulily" (the name of Homura´s witch).
During Homura´s transformation you can also read:
"To master, we´re bored", "I kill myself", "They glorify dead" (as in madoka´s sacrifice)
And after while becoming a witch you can read on the wheel:
"I only think of you", "Resignation"
There´s also multiple callbacks to the names of witches that appeared on the series and every girl has their name in archaic on their rings. There´s also the description of Homura´s witch which has already been shared in another comment.
To clarify, the "To Master, we're bored." is a message from Homura's witch familiars; the Clara Dolls. They represent Homura's self-loathing in its variety of forms, and are bored by the illusion of the Holy Quintet having a lovely fun time together.
I do kinda love how TV series has a "bad ending" presented as "happy ending" and then this movie ends with a "happy ending" presented as "bad ending"
For the ending; yes, Madoka's goal was to rescue Homura from her own labyrinth via the law of cycle so that Homura wouldn't suffer and would become like Bebe and Sayaka, who were also witches saved by the law of cycle. But Homura's goal was for Madoka to be happy, which in her eyes is a normal life and not what Madoka ultimately chose; sacrificing herself. So out of a very intense and obsessive love, she went against Madoka's decision and stole a piece of her for herself (tore her memory from her godhood), and rewrote the world in which Madoka could be who she once was. But obviously Madoka is so powerful that she keeps almost breaking out of it, like we see towards the end. Homura just wants to maintain the status quo of a normal happy life and will betray everyone, even the person she loves most, in order to do that. Honestly it reminds me of the ending of TLOU if anyone gets what I mean by that
You are now my favorite person. I *love* TLOU, and I *love* PMMM. It’s such a coincidence that you’d bring up TLOU, because I’m literally never getting over TLOU. Never…
I loved this continuation and cant wait to see the next movie!!
I think this continuation really makes sense because of homura's wish: to redo her meeting with madoka, but this time she wants to be strong enough to protect her.
So this wish remains true even now: the first part of her wish was redoing her meeting with madoka and she was able to do that by trapping her own soul gem away from the law of cycles with the help of kyuubey, and "inviting" madoka in. Then, she could separate the tiny bit off of the law of cycles (this tiny bit being madoka herself, and the memories about her).
By doing that, she made the other part of her wish true: becoming strong enough to protect her. So that's why homura can match madoka's god power level and become a demon. In my interpretation, no matter how strong madoka gets, homura will also be strong enough to protect her.
I really love you can always find different meanings and interpreations and find new stuff everytime you rewatch it, i've watched so many reactions now!
This explanation should be pinned 😳
The incubators were going to use Madoka rendering Madoka's sacrifice useless. THAT BROKE HER. If anyone's going to control Madoka it should be her because she above everyone else will make sure that Madoka's safe and happy because of her LOVE for Madoka. That's why that emotion is the strongest. Multiplied by her own set of sacrifices they became almost equal. She became someone that could rival the Goddess, hence she became the Devil. It's all quite poetic the more you read into it.
One could argue this ending is happier than the TV series ending, in a sense.
Sayaka is back to life, Bebe is alive again and doesn't have to be a witch, all the girls are alive, and most importantly, Madoka has been reunited with her family, and she can live a happy life again. Incubators are still around, but as the final shot suggested, they seem to be kinda suffering under Homura's reign, haha.
Though I guess the question is whether Homura is truly happy. The key thing to remember is that Homura was about to turn into a witch before Kyubey isolated her Soul Gem, she was at peak of despair. This doesn't justify her actions, of course, but it makes sense why Homura did what she did to Madoka, she was completely and utterly broken at that point.
This. People keep forgetting that at the moment she does all this and rips Madoka from the law of cycles, she had already become a witch on the inside.
This movie takes 2-3 watches to fully "get it."
The first viewing leaves you with so much.
True, I've done the 2nd and 3rd watches on someone's reactions and now I know what's going on!
very much same applies with visuals of the movie, there are so much well established imagery in the movie that i missed on my first watch. After every rewatch i always notice something new, especially the way they represented homura's despair, grief and her self inflicted pain during the labyrinth portion of the movie. Its easy to skip because of how overstimulating it is, but its still has huge artistic value
@@yannikovsky7041Oh it is an incredible piece of art. Rebellion is truly an amazing passion project, you can tell the staff at SHAFT put their heart and soul into every detail.
Note that Homura went to a Catholic school, and that Homura is the original one to call herself evil and a demon. I think it's her Catholic and personal guilt for going against a god and a friend.
Also, her act at the end was foreshadowed earlier in the movie when Homura's familiars say, "Gott ist tot," Nietzsche's famous quote, meaning "God is dead."
It's also the same scene where she confesses her love for another girl, which is another thing that the Catholic church has historically not been okay with.
@@DataSnake88 True. I guess that's one of the first rules she would change with divine power if she can, eh?
Okay girly. Congrats to you because you did your research. Like- damn. I’m screenshotting this.
@@Livelaughandluvjesus Thanks!
So Homura didn't want to be saved by Madoka after her conversation with Kyubey because, if Madoka saved her, the Incubators would have confirmed without a doubt that Madoka was the Law of Cycles. So she'd rather become a full witch and be killed by Mami and Kyoko to prevent that, even if that meant she would ACTUALLY die, instead of going to Madoka's Heaven and seeing her again. She was embracing the worst possible fate because, in her eyes, that was the only way of keeping Madoka safe from the Incubators.
But, even beyond that, you can see Homura has a lot of self-loathing if you pay close attention to her whole story, especially with specific lines. It's never adressed directly though. It takes a few rewatches to see it. The thing is, Homura never really loved herself very much, she thought she was a burden until she met Madoka. But then everything went to shit and all she could do was keep fighting, regardless of whether she thought she could win, because the alternative was becoming a witch. And, ultimately, she did end up failing at her goal of protecting Madoka, from a certain perspective. So, if she was a burden before, she's a complete failure now. This is one of the reasons why her own familiars seem to hate her at times, crying fake tears at her attempt at suicide and throwing her tomatoes. Plus, this isn't even the only time she's thought of suicide, the witch that almost killed her in the first timeline tempted her with that specific idea too. And she did kind of romanticize the idea of letting go and becoming a witch with Madoka. This isn't directly stated, but it's possible that suicidal ideation is a relatively recurrent thing in Homura's life. Which might be the other reason for her desperation to die in her labyrinth.
That self-loathing might also be one of the things that condition her to see herself as a devil. I believe we aren't meant to take her words literally but more as an indication of her mental state. At this point she not only absolutely hates herself for being a total failure, but she also knows she's broken a law that was hope for all magical girls. She realizes her actions put her in direct opposition to a lot of people and she's willing to play the role if that's what it takes to keep Madoka safe. Not because she's actually evil, but because she thinks it's worth it and because, well, she doesn't think she deserves to be understood anyway.
The original series has a grim and hopeless penultimate episode, followed by Madoka becoming God and ushering in a good ending. The movie ends with a hopeful penultimate act followed by Homura becoming the devil. Got to love it.
Also on Homura's decision at the end, it seems pretty likely she made her decision to do this in the field scene with the heart to heart between Homura and Madoka. If you pay attention to that scene in the context of Homura's later decision, looking at what Madoka says, you can see why Homura decided to do this.
Not gonna lie i only caught that after rewatching this movie three times. At first, I thought that Homura just turned into a Yandere, but it turns out she is still our Homura after all: Madoka's happiness above everything else. This also explains why Homura looks tired instead of being happy that she can be with Madoka again. Man, this movie is packed with information, and there's no way to know everything on the first watch.
She's also a witch already at this point, living within her own labyrinth.
I don't believe Homura is truly evil, but believes herself to be an evil entity for going against Madoka's choice. Her very wish was to protect Madoka, and even at the show's finale she wasn't able to fully realize that. Believing that Kyubey is always going to try and discover Madoka, Homura goes against her own wish. She loves her, yet had to to go against her wish, and is trapped in a paradox, where she both undermines yet is able to protect Madoka. Thus, just as she tore Madoka in two, Homura is also split by her love for Madoka.
Exactly. Homura calling herself "evil" is a bit melodramatic. She's not really hurting anybody by making a universe for Madoka to exist in. But she is violating the divine Godoka plan, placing her in opposition to divinity. Therefore "evil".
@@scienceandponies Not gonna argue that Madoka didn't do something similar. But I'd accuse people of hurting me when they change my memories (in Sayakas case obviously against her consent) and let me play out *their* version of what my life should be like.
Since I'd not know, I'd be blissfully ignorant, but if I knew, that's quite a violation of my being.
Sayaka’s fortissimo hairpin was added to her character design for the 3 movies
Wait, what?! I swear she had it in the show!
@@oddishhimeNope, she didn’t! I’m glad they added it, I think it’s a lovely little addition to her design.
I'll try to explain the events of this movie as a lot of it is symbolism and it's hard to tell what really happened.
(Warning: This is LONG)
This is all happening in the post ep 12 timeline, just mostly within Homura's soul gem(until the rewritig the universe at the end)
After the events of episode 12, Homura's despair grows as she longs for Madoka and her memories aren't shared with anyone. She starts to turn into a witch, but before that the Incubators put her into the Isolation Field where Homura creates a labyrinth inside her Soul Gem. The Incubators aim to be able to control Madoka by studying her within the Labyrinth Homura traps her in. Homura tries to foil their plans by becoming a witch instead of calling for Madoka so that they couldn't study her. Instead, Madoka and co. free Homura from the Isolation field and try to bring her to Magical Girl heaven.
I'm gonna go back to the conversation with Madoka for this part.
Although like you said, she has met Madoka many times, all those times have been the same Madoka. The only difference in her attitude may be due to whether she is a magical girl or not, as she usually feels less "average" and "useless" when she's already a magical girl because she can save people. Just like Homura said, that was the real Madoka, and those are her true feelings(the full song for the EP 1 & 2 endings[Mata Ashita/See You Tomorrow] are of God Madoka's feelings. its honestly really sad). But in the end, she was forced to sacrifice herself for the sake of all magical girls and leave Homura behind, which is what Homura realizes when the flowers die. I don't think Madoka regrets her wish, but having to take on the despair of all magical girls and not being fully able to see her friends and family again was probably really painful.
Back to God Madoka about to take Homura away into eternal peace, Homura sees this as an opportunity to give Madoka a normal life again and be with her in human form. She separates a part of her from her god form(Law of Cycles), bringing it down to earth and rewriting the universe. Although Homura calls herself a demon, we don't really see see any sort of hell. It seems to just be about the fact that Homura disrupted the laws of a God, making her the opposite. It also seems to represent how Homura sees herself, almost always in a negative light. But still, Homura's wish was out of selifish desire, a desire born from love. She creates a universe where things seem to be relatively okay. Madoka has her life again, and Sayaka and Nagisa(Bebe) can live as humans, too.
Both Madoka and Homura have really bad self esteem issues and self sacrificing tendencies. In Madoka, this manifests as a martyr complex in where she sacrifices her own needs and well being to serve others as she percieves herself as useless otherwise. She sacrificed her life to take on the burden of everyone(there are some comparisons and parallels that can be made to Jesus). Homura as seen in her original timeline also feels useless, with the only thing giving her purpose is Madoka, the only one she considered a friend. This grew into a love, and into an obsession where everything she does is for Madoka. Her nature is also self sacrificing, but in her case it is for one person alone.
As you can see, I really love this show😅 I hoped that cleared some things up!
I think it should be clarified that they aren't actually in "Hell" at the end but are in Homura's witch's labyrinth, which is now big enough to cover the entire universe. Homura isn't actually the Devil, but calls herself that because she "tore down god" which is basically the actions of a devil. I suspect that calling herself that also has to do with her self-hatred (notice her familiars are often throwing fruit at her and jeering, revealing her true emotions). Homura grew up Catholic, so there is an extra layer to the fact she refers to herself as a "devil."
Homura also might have internalized-homophobia due to growing up Catholic and probably sees her love for Madoka as "wrong" which would only add to the label of the "Devil" she gave herself.
to explain why homura did what she did you have to take the whole movie into consideration. the incubators use a loophole in madoka's system by sealing off homura (after she falls into despair bc only she remembers madoka) in order to confirm madokas existence and control her. at the end homura realizes "whats stopping the incubators from doing this again after madoka saves me?" so she steals the piece that is madoka from the law of cycles AND some of it's power in order to rewrite the universe (again) she calls her self a demon and "evil" a direct opposite of madoka. but in reality this is all a show she is putting up a front and playing the role she believes she must fulfill. also this is all current timeline (sorry this is so long)
Homura also has a history of self-deprecation and even suicidal tendencies. So of course she thinks her actions are Evil.
A nice detail is that when Homura realises she's a witch, the whole city begins burning. "Homura" means "flame". So the whole labyrinth is literally screaming that Homura is the witch that created the labyrinth.
Homura went onto the bus because bus goes back in loops. So if she were to die, bus would bring her back near her soul gem.
You can see ribbon in tea scene.
You can see the mami's flower magic symbols made by smoke of guns after the fight which is when she made her ribbon coppy.
Sayaka uses her fireextinguisher just like she did in episode 1.
Homura actually gave everyone a better life but we don't know what exactly she broke in laws of cycle.
Kyoko now goes to school, Sayaka isn't dead, Mami has Nagisa(Bebe) and isn't alone.
Flower scene ended up being important.
Can't wait to hear your thoughts. Also, I bet you're happy you only have to wait a few months for the next movie instead of over a decade like the rest of us, lol
It's funny how you say that the original ending was "bitter sweet" since....in Homura's POV.....it was anything but that- she wanted to keep Madoka safe....and what happened? She turned into a God, a "none existent" entity. I think the idea of her becoming God ruined whole her ideal on the original Madoka which caused her to despair but not really know it because of Kyubey.
Fun Fact: Nagisa/Bebe and Sayaka aren't the only witches returning from the Law of Cycles! Though we don't see the other witches/magical girls, a number of their familiars join the fight to save Homura! The cotton balls from the Rose Garden Witches, the shadowy creatures from the witch that Sayaka killed (idk remember her name but it was the black and white labyrinth), the legs that look like the bottom half of Japanese schoolgirls from the Student Council President Witch, and of course the Sweets Witch's own little mice and nurse (the nurse is hard to see, but when Mami is doing the trapeze before using Tiro Finale, the other person she swings off of is her)
Another fun detail: the mustache cottonballs (named "Anthony") usually have butterfly wings as their feet, but these ones are being 'loaned out' to Sayaka from their original witch to help in the fight, which is why they have mermaid tails instead!
@@allysanimalchannel I didn't notice that before, thanks for pointing it out!
There's 2 scenes that have a big influence on the ending and why Homura decided to become a "demon", the scene were kyubey was explaining to her that they were planning to control Madoka all along, wich would have happend eventually if she hadn't intervene with the timeline AND that one scene in the flower garden, that was the real Madoka explaining that she would never want to be alway from everyone, so i do believe Homura made the right choice, even if a very bold one
I'm so excited for the next movie! This series has been my favorite for a while
Yeah. 100% on team Homura here.
Considering Homura's choice being the right or wrong one.
I guess I wouldn't have thought so, but I'm with MADOKAS MOM! on this if I'm honest I guess 😂It very much feels like Homura made the wrong decision, but still **had to**. Sometimes stuff is messy, no matter how much you want everything to work out neatly. It also works out with Homura, being "evil" but not **evil**, you know. Because you can do something "wrong", and deem it necessary, but still acknowledge it's wrong. Really curious how the 4th movie will play out. They won't please everyone for sure 🙈
To answer your questions:
About the timeline, homura become a witch inside of her soul, she did it to herself because she couldn’t bare a life without madoka. Remember that scene at the end of episode 12, that was her becoming a witch. Inside of her labyrinth when she finds out kyube was using her for her memories of madoka, she wanted to die to protect her, as she though that was the only way to be of use to madoka. As she felt she had betrayed madoka in becoming a witch.
Why she become a devil/ why she did what she did: Homura tricked herself in believing that this is not what madoka would’ve wanted, SHE wanted a world in which madoka could be happy without having to bare all the curses of the universe and be gone from existence. She wanted madoka to be happy so much so she didn’t mind become everyone’s enemy, including the Law of Cycles enemy. Seen at the end, homura knows what she created is temporary and eventually madoka will gain her memories back, she just wanted to prolong the inevitable. (Sorry if theirs only grammar mistakes, I hope this answers your questions)
Thank you for reacting to this, it was really enjoyable. I have seen a couple of your episode reactions before this, they were great as well. I was kinda confused as to the movie at my first watch too, but it got a lot more sense after a rewatch.
My understanding on the storyline:
Episode 12 -> Homura's soul gem reached a state where it needed to be cleansed by God Madoka -> kyubey isolated her soul gem from all external influence, therefore it became unreachable by Madoka -> Homura became a near-witch and created a labyrinth in her soul gem (which looked exactly like Mitakihara) -> she lured/invited everyone in, and wiped their memories and also her own -> God Madoka, Sayaka and Bebe went in as well, in an attempt to save Homura -> God Madoka left her memories in Sayaka's and Bebe's good hands while she's in the labyrinth -> Homura realized something's wrong and went on a journey of (self-)discovery -> Sayaka and Bebe got Homura out of the labyrinth, returned the memories to Madoka -> God Madoka's grand entrance -> Homura became a devil as she pulled Madoka (god) down from heaven, leaving Madoka's god power/part behind in heaven -> Homura changed the universe and made a world such that Madoka and everyone else could live a joyous life in it.
My take on why homura became a devil instead of going with Madoka:
I think the main reason why homura did all that, lies within the conversation in the flowerbed scene. In that scene, Madoka admitted to Homura that even if there's no other option, she wouldn't have enough courage to go somewhere far away, leaving her family and friends behind, and it would hurt her to do so. (Note that this is the real Madoka speaking from her heart) Having heard this, Homura regretted letting Madoka make that wish in episode 12. Besides, kyubey would probably conduct another 'experiment' on another soul gem, putting God Madoka's existence at risk. So, when everyone got her out of the labyrinth, Homura thought that she had to do something. She couldn't ask Madoka to come back and stop fighting because Homura knew Madoka would refuse. So she thought the only way to keep Madoka safe and bring her back to her family and friends again, was to go against Madoka. And the only being that would go against a 'God' is a 'devil' or a 'demon'. She became one, and altered the universe just like Madoka did in episode 12. In this new world, Madoka got to live happily with her family, Sayaka got to have fun with Kyoko again and Bebe got to eat cheese with Mami again. In that sense, Homura doesnt play a full demon role. She probably refer to herself as such because she kidnapped madoka and madoka has been referred as a God since after Madoka made her wish.
Some notable symbolism:
The moon - It represents God Madoka. The half-moon in the ending scene indicates that Homura had kidnapped a splitted part/half of Madoka from Heaven.
Madoka T-posing in Homura's despair scene - It likens Madoka's sacrifice to the sacrifice depicted in Christianity, and Homura failed to prevent that (therefore Madoka splashed)
Homura's minions throwing tomatoes at her - Homura's bad acting at playing a demon role
this is the easiest explanation to understand the whole movie. this comment deserves to get pinned or something.
Kyubei wanted madoka to use her god power inside the bubble to analize her.
Homu wanted to prevent this by killing herself before Madoka did anything.
The girls made a plan to break the bubble to free Homu and then let Madoka take her away.
that's what happens inside the bubble, after it breaks it goes to the next plot.
That sounds correct, and also makes me question whether Homura's "Betrayal" in the end was really necessary. I'm glad it played out as it did, but more official info on that, would've been great for the "Law of the Cycle" that is Madoka discussions who did what right and wrong 😂
Nice reaction.
Everyone needs to see this movie three times to understand it. There are so many motifs in this movie and the setting of Homura's witch that if you see the spoiler and watch it again, you will understand even more the movie and that Homura's choice was inevitable.
The first part of Nightmare was the way Homura wanted to be a magical girl. It's sad that despite the experiences of the TV series, what Homura really wanted was a world where everyone got along like that.
After this movie, there's a few minutes "concept movie" that was released a few years ago, so you should watch that too.
On a happier note, the trailer for the next movie was just updated!
homura isn't actually evil, but for multiple reasons, she is calling herself that and sees herself that way. homer's mentality and psyche is such an interesting thing to study and I rly hope it's explored to an even deeper extent in the next movie installment.
I love that you caught the Fortissimo clip in Sayaka's hair, the music references in her transformations are so cool
The fortissimo hair clips on Sayaka were added in the recap movies, so if you're wondering why you didn't notice in the show, that's why. The movies added a few of those sorts of details (mostly in the backgrounds), that weren't really necessary but were a really nice touch
5:10
As far as why they didn't leave the story where it originally ended, there's actually an answer to this! It stems from the last conversation Homura and Kyubey had in the original run.
After that scene, the fans cried out that Homura shouldn't have told Kyubey about Madoka because he might try to _find_ Madoka. When Gen Urobuchi, the writer, read these comments, they helped him come up with the sequel's plot. He literally thought, "Oh god, you're right" about fan speculation and made it happen.
I think that's pretty awesome lol
LMAO that’s crazy that it all stemmed from Urobuchi making fan speculation happen
This is kinda unrelated to this comment but
Rebellion's ending should be Homura be with Madoka and become a part of her like Sayaka and Kyuubey (basically like bodyguards)
But the director wanted this to continue, so he write Homura turned into demon instead... (CMIIW)
@@JamieMieLiNo, this is not true. Gen Urobuchi (the writer) was not happy with the original ending he planned for Rebellion, and was discussing it with Akiyuki Shinbo (the director). Shinbo suggested an ending where Homura and Madoka become enemies, and Urobuchi liked that and finished the script.
A direct quote from the interview:
"But I had a hard time deciding on the ending. *Ending the story with Homura and Madoka being reunited wasn't really the best outcome.* After all, the instant Homura encounters her, she'll be guided by the Law of Cycles, and disappear. Would that make her happy? It was also the director, Mr. Shinbo's opinion that the outcome of the TV series, "a human becoming a god" might be too heavy a fate for a girl in middle school to bear. Since that was the case, I decided to try to come up with a way to create a story in which Madoka could escape that outcome.
But I'd already ended this story once, so it was hard to figure out how to expand it. That was when Mr. Shinbo suggested, "How about a story with Homura confronting Madoka as an enemy?" I thought, *if that's at all permissible, then I'd suddenly have all these options open to me,* and that's how the current plot developed."
@@yuratchkaplisetskys3063 ohhh i thought the writer hates the ending what we have now
@@JamieMieLi No, he does not hate it at all ☺️ PMMM is a passion project for all of the staff.
In the English version, the little song they sing is the same tune as, 'Who stole the Cookie'.
Homura's decision to become a demon was not something she had planned from the beginning. At the end of the main series, there is a scene of Homura talking to Kyubey in the rewritten universe about witches and Madoka, so at some point between then and this movie, when Homura eventually became a witch as all magical girls do, Kyubey isolated her soul gem from external influence to see if what she was saying is true.
Homura's actions at the end of the movie are based on the conversation she had with Madoka in the flower field late in the movie. Note that when Madoka was transforming into a god in the series she spoke with Homura and said that she now remembers all of the timelines and everything Homura did to save her, so Madokami is a combination of all iterations of Madoka, not just the most recent one. The Madoka in the flower field is that same gestalt Madoka, even if she didn't remember what happened to her, and Madoka said to Homura that it would break her heart to be separated from the people she cares about, unable to talk to them; Madoka didn't believe she would even be able to make that sort of decision but Homura knows she did, and based on that conversation she now knows that it hurt Madoka to have to do something as self sacrificing as that, so she split the human Madoka from her divinity at the end of the movie and sort of took her place. She's not literally a devil, after all her new power is just the fragment she took from Madokami, but I think she calls herself that due to self hatred.
Homura's witch familiars, the Clara Dolls, who show up throughout the movie are all named after the things she thinks of herself. Pride, Gloominess, Liar, Coldheartedness, Selfishness, Slander, Blockhead, Jealousy, Laziness, Vanity, Cowardice, Stupidity, Envy, Stubbornness, and one more who never appeared, Love. The Clara Dolls all refer to their witch as Good-For-Nothing.
I love this movie so much! Homura didn’t planned it but I think her turning into a witch made her feelings grow stronger because she witnessed what a world would be if Madoka was there. In the end, she’s sad because she knows they would never be together again (hell/paradise). It’s actually a worst world for everyone, curses are growing stronger, people committing unliving or crimes happily. Everything for a single girl to live as a human…
" It’s actually a worst world for everyone, curses are growing stronger, people committing unliving or crimes happily."
Not sure where you got that. Curses exist as Wraiths like before(after Madoka's wish)and life continues as normal but now Magical girls dont even have to fight since Homura makes the Incubators fight the Wraiths.
And it isnt her becoming a Witch but talking with Madoka in the flower field scene. Remember Homura even in the end of the series didnt accept Madoka's wish but she couldnt do anything.
So far her new world is worse only for QB and herself. The scenes after she transforms into "Devil" show her rejecting all acts of kindness or friendship from the other girls(breaking a tec cup for Mami, rejecting food offered by Kyoko), imagery of her own suicide(her minions jumping off a cliff) and her minions ridiculing(throwing tomatoes)her when she pretends to be the worst evil to Sayaka. And at the very end she also throws herself of a cliff.
Everyone gets to be happy except herself and QB.
...Well until movie 4 shows us why this cant keep going.
I think the problem with trying to say if the world's worst, better or about the same is... we really have no way to know right now. We're barely shown a glimpse of what Homura created. We can try to guess, but we don't get to see how this new world is working, what are its rules and how stable it is. I imagine the next movie will bring much needed answers, but up until then, it's all speculations - though it'd make narrative sense if this new world comes with problems the previous one didn't have.
@@Talyrion Obviously, the 4th will shows us why Homura's world can't go for long, as I said.
But if we go only with what Rebellion showed it is basically a dream world for everyone who isn't Homura and QB.
At the very least it wasn't presented as OP claimed it to be.
@@ssjokg4952you see multiple shows next to a rooftop and girls jumping happily from it…
@@lysfranc8782Do those girls take off their shoes first, though? In Japan, removing your shoes before jumping is a common practice associated with unaliving.
1 HOUR OF DOREIMANI IM SO EXCITED
The reason Homura puts together that she was the one who created the labyrinth is that the only way it was possible for everyone in it to know who Madoka was is for the person who created it to have known her, and Homura was the only person who did after her sacrifice. Simple logic when you realise it
not the plastic water bottle with the metal straw 🤣 btw loved watching you react to the series 💕
LOL you just helped me to realize the irony.. if it helps I do recycle my bottles 😛
I haven't clicked a video so fast in my life!
SAME
lesbians would rather destroy the universe twice before trying to ask their crush out
literally madoka is heaven and homura is hell but they’re in love
14:10 they added that detail in the recap movies.
This movie is definitely something that grew on me the more I watched and reflected on it, because it is definitely jarring the first time round. But I know I think it's genius - I've grown to love the moral and emotional ambiguity it leaves you with at the end. In a less talented team's hands, it could have felt unfulfilling and/or pretentious, but because we love these characters, and the layers of the story, on top of the music and visuals, were so carefully crafted, it managed to be great.
There are so many observations, so I'll just name a handful of related ones. Firstly, Homura kind of embodies the ambiguity we feel - as we discover at the end, she is the creator the utopia we begin with, and, like Homura, we both love that our Holy Quintet are happy and together, whilst also feeling that something is definitely wrong. Like Homura, we're seeking the destruction of our paradise, and cheering on the one who does it. But not only is the world she is outwardly defying one she wants, she more or less creates it again right at the end, where she can be with Madoka, Sayaka and Kyoko are like an old married couple again, and Mami's looking after Bebe (saving her from a cheese avalanche, no less). But, as the post-credits scene implies, where she's on her own up on the cliff (apart from Kyubey), she is still the least happy person around. But, as she told Kyubey, her obsessive love for Madoka has made even her pain precious to her.
Then there are her two conversations with Sayaka. In the first one, Sayaka is in the know and has the edge on Homura, and in the second, Homura controls the universe and has power over Sayaka, which she is smug about and Sayaka clearly angry. But they actually come onto the same subject in both conversations - Homura self-loathing and self-destructive nature. In the first, Sayaka, much more willing to be friendly, and knowing Homura's the creator of the labyrinth asks her to seriously reconsider killing the witch, because someone who desires and creates such an idyllic existence doesn't deserve to die. In a coded way, she's telling a veteran self-hater to cut herself some slack. But once Homura's in control, she's goading Sayaka to treat her as the embodiment of evil, casting herself once again in the antagonistic role, this time safe in the knowledge that Sayaka is not subject to more knowledge than she is, and certainly less powerful. Sayaka, though obviously angry, tries to get her to see sense, asking if she truly intends to destroy the universe, in essence, the same thing she asked her before, before Homura knew she had created the fake Mitakihara. Maybe this is speculative, but I think that Sayaka, with a better understanding of Homura than in the main series, is trying to save her from herself. Just in her own way that won't cut through...
Great analysis! I didn't fully catch onto how Sayaka and Homura's first conversation in the dream world parallels their second conversation at the end of the film. The role reversal is a really nice touch.
homura was actually so down bad for madoka and missed her much that she couldn't bear to live in a world without madoka so she literally fucking reconstructed the universe
All righty, looks like no one will point the elephant in the room so...
*Homura did nothing wrong*
the reason homura shot herself at the end of her fight with mami is that she knows that damage to the brain isn't actually that big a deal to a magical girl. Their minds are housed in their soul gems rather than their heads. Mami didn't know that, and homura took advantage
50:50 I think Kyoko saw the familiars for a split second, and tried to give them the apple, but when she looked back there was no one there
Yeah, the familiars (Homura's subconscious feelings) asked for one of Kyoko's apples. Kyoko happily obliged, but Homura shook her head at the familiars, rejecting the apple (symbolic of her rejecting Kyoko's friendship). So the apple fell into the water and was wasted, which upset Kyoko.
This movie went hard and it paid off really well
Is one of the most tragic love stories out there, in my opinion. But damn good writing. Thanks for the reaction :3
In the comment of the video,
ua-cam.com/video/GLvaPwoCU9M/v-deo.html
Someone provided the symbolism in the cake song
List of various symbolisms: Contains spoilers for Rebellion and the series if you haven't finished them
0:18 - Sayaka hides her face in this clip. In the series, after learning the truth about Soul Gems, Sayaka found herself to be an ugly monster and a disgrace. She refused to confess to Kyosuke because of this, as she considered herself too inhuman for his love.
0:21 "Watashi wa raspberry!" = I am the raspberry. Raspberries are both sweet and sour, referencing Sayaka's hot and cold mood changes.
0:33 - Kyoko equates herself to an apple. Her color theme is red, and apples seem to be one of her favorite foods. The food she had with her when she brought Sayaka to the old church in Episode 7 was a sack full of red apples.
0:48 - "Watashi wa cheese!" = I am the cheese. The reason for this is her color theme is yellow/gold, and Bebe/Nagisa's favorite food is cheese. In fact, the reason Charlotte ate Mami in the series was because she thought she was cheese.
0:51 - "The cake spins around in circles" = Homura's time travel.
1:00 - Homura equates herself to a pumpkin. Pumpkins are often associated with Halloween, witches, the fall and harvest, paganism, etc. This is foreshadowing Homura actually being within her own witch labyrinth. EXTRA: Homura's feet seem to move in a ballet-like manner. Considering her story is very similar to that of The Nutcracker Ballet, and that she did ballet in her transformation sequence...
1:03 - "The cake is sweet." Madoka is a sweet girl.
1:13 - Madoka equates herself to a melon. The next line, "when a melon breaks, it creates a sweet dream", is foreshadowing the ending of the movie. When Homura splits Madoka's Magical Girl and human halves apart, she overshadows the universe in a demon labyrinth, making the world almost as sickeningly sweet and dream-like as the first part of the movie.
1:21 - "But the dream tonight is a bitter one indeed." Underlying beneath all the happiness and idealism, the world they're in is bitter, because it's a creation of Homura's most desperate wishes. It's what she wanted but could never have.
1:26 - "Atop the plate is the dream of the cat." See above.
I think you have a pretty good understanding of this, for some people it takes mkre than one watch. The Law of Cycles still exists, since they are fighting Wraiths, but i don't think its necessary since the Incubators are taking in all the despair. Tnis seems like a world where Magical Girls would only ever die in battle. Its objectively a better end than the series, since everyone is living a happy life, except Homura. She accomplished everything Madoka did, only better. Homura did nothing wrong!
About 26:28 as a commenter said on our rebellion reaction video: Homura knows that their flesh isn't there real bodies which is why she points the gun at herself, she got this knowledge from the OG timeline so Mami doesn't know it and think Homura is actually trying to kill herself.
Homura did nothing wrong, and I still feel the same way after 10 years of the movie being out.
There are people like Homura. They want the "best" for you, but it's their vision of the best, not yours. Madoka wanted to become the Law of Cycles, it was her wish. Homura wants nothing but to save Madoka. Sadly their wishes are in conflict and there really is no way out of this mess, but for Homura to become evil. Her love is selfish, she wants Madoka for herself. If she loved the way Madoka does, she would let her go.
Thank you for all these videos, they were a joy to watch! I love your style (both literally and figuratively) 😊
There are so many details in Rebellion that can easily be missed - I was super confused at first but the more I re-watch it, the more I notice the foreshadowing and all kinds of fun details. I'm still a bit skeptical of how far Homura is taking her whole "evil" persona, but the poor girl is so traumatized that it still kind of makes sense...
I'm so excited for the next movie and really looking forward to your reaction if you do one!!
Thise little creatures are Homura's familiars. If you keep an eye on them, you can see them emulate Homura's true feelings throughout the movie which helps with reading where her mind is at.
At the end, you can see them throwing tomatoes at Homura and committing suicide which is a way of visualizing Homura's guilt and self-loathing for taking Madoka back.
i love the broken record on homura's witch form. the idea of something damaged that causes her to keep looping over and over again is just aaaaaa
Also her broken nutcracker jaw because she feels useless 😢
This movie is so hard to fully grasp at once, I had to watch it 3 times to really appreciate both the plot and every detal and indication. Every hidden text in the film makes sense!
To clarify the events:
1-The film starts within Homura's Soul Gem, inside the Isolation Field. On the Witch Labyrinth grown for years, Homura has total power and can "rewrite reality". Outside is the real world, and in there Madoka exists.
2-When Homura's Soul Gem cracks open and the Higly-Condensed Labyrinth devours the universe, Homura gains access to "rewriting" it along with her familiars and illusions. It is, however, taking place in the world like a regular Witch Labyrinth at the start of the series. As part of her power, she creates a mental divide between Madoka as she always was and her divine status, so she could finally stop being a "principle" and live a regular life. Homura does this because of their conversation at the dandelion field, and her conviction that Madoka should had never go away.
3-Homura does not turn into a simple witch because due to years of ordeal she has come to accept hurt and overcome despair by means of devoting herself to a cause, she has turned "masochistic": therefore, paradoxically, she has no reason to ever despair, and can go through these negative emotions easily without being totally corrupted. This was a side effect of Kyuubey's Isolation, that let her overcome these emotions without vanishing.
4-At the end both the labyrinth and the real world exist one over the other, but Madoka remains a principle of nature. Only, she is being fooled by Homura's rewriting of her memory. That's why Homura is, despite having good intentions and not withing evil on anybody, defining herself as "bad" or "selfish": she knows the order after the series was "just" but only existed at the expense of her friend. Thus, she is going to choose her friend over duty, and do it with a broken heart. I just love the bittersweetness of it all.
I am so hyped to watch this reaction omfg, this movie DESTROYED ME
Your reaction was a breath of fresh air. Thank you for sharing this with us. I subscribed just for this video! Look forward to the new movie next year. Many of us have waited so long since the concept movie shown at Madogatari. Welcome to our club and our fandom.
A very common misconception of the movie is that Homura had it planned ALL ALONG
However, Homura didn't start to think that maybe Madoka DIDN'T want to be separated from her loved ones as a concept only until that conversation in the field of flowers between them
Before that, she was very much firm on not interfering with Madoka's wish even if she didn't like the outcome herself; but once that idea that Madoka would have chosen a different fate if she had the chance got planted, she took the opportunity to change the status quo of the universe the moment it presented itself to her
Homura becoming a Witch was very much something she hadn't planned on happening to her, let alone the Incubators turning her into an experiment
this movie really was just a constant stream of homura going insane
Rebellion is like the Empire Strikes Back of Madoka. The original series is complete by itself but Rebellion opened a whole new can of worms and now we have to wait for the next movie that will (hopefully) conclude the series for real.
My understanding of the story of this movie is that Kyubey kidnapped Homura (somehow) and trapped her in a mini-dimension that was cut-off from the law of cycles. Because she was stuck in there, asleep, while the incubators experimented on her, Homura's soul gem gradually sullied until she almost became a witch. As an "unhatched" witch, she sent out familiars who lured in Mami, Kyouko, Hitomi, etc. to the dream-labyrinth. Then Godoka sent a version of herself, along with Sayaka and Nagisa to rescue Homura, but the Madoka offshoot (?) lost her memories.
When Homura's consciousness inside the labyrinth discovered Kyubey's plot, she went on a rampage and hoped that Mami and Kyoko would kill her witch self before Madoka could rescue her so that Kyubey wouldn't be able to touch Godoka. However, with Madoka's help Homura was able to destroy the labyrinth and the Kyubey's observing them, and escape from the pocket dimension.
Because this all happened in a dream-labyrinth, Homura's soul gem was still corrupted so when Godoka came to rescue her she wasn't in her right state of mind (after all, she was close to becoming a witch) and gave in to her inner desire to protect Madoka's chance at an ordinary happiness, using the immense energy that magical girls usually emit when they become a witch to separate Madoka's Humanity from Godoka and rewriting the universe. She isn't actually evil or demonic, but part of Homura feels guilty about what she's done and feels that it's blasphemy against "God" (Godoka), so she considers herself a devil.
55:59 Last one. I m under the impression that when Homura reached her limit, with her Soul Gem started turning into a Grief Seed, Space Cat Bitch was wtching and they isolated her in that containment field, just to see what happened.
57:20 I LOVE yhat window ties shut with yarn, as if to represent the way the Law of Cycles would enter the world to extend Her hand to those turning to despair. The imagery in PMMM is so much fun.
Yay! Rebellion!!
Can’t wait! ^_^
The only reason Homura did what she did was because Madoka, in her amnesiac form, relayed to Homura that she would never go somewhere out of reach and in isolation. It is important that she knows nothing of witches or her responsibility in preventing them, because in the dandelion scene, she is able to convey her true feelings without the weight of duty or the memory of the magical girls' suffering.
Of course, Homura now regrets allowing Madoka to wish upon becoming a goddess, so she and her intense love (or obsession) for Madoka rips part of the goddess' being. In having pulled the human part of Madoka to Earth, her divine powers are now exposed, allowing Homura to absorb them, in turn transforming her soul gem to that of an imperial crown, with the elusive, now-appropriately winged lizard as her code of arms.
When she dances in the epilogue, she is hopelessly dancing with part of Madoka, but really what value does that bear when it's the wrong half?
oh my gosh i havent even finished the video but i love to see you trying to figure it all out!!! so excited to keep watching!!!
11:14 GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD (the poses the hirosky group makes kills me every time)
Trying to bring a bit of order into things (rough explanation of the story of Rebellion (obviously a bit is speculation)):
0. Episode 12 happens. Magical girls fight Wraiths, Witches and Madoka don't exist. Sayaka died, Homura, Mami and Kyoko keep fighting for good.
1. Homura was going to die after her soul gem was fading.
This would normally mean she was going to dissolve into the "Law of Cycles", aka Madoka would destroy her despair so she could die without cursing someone and birthing a witch
2. Kyubey was wondering, why do Magical girls disappear. Since Homura mentioned something about Witches once, she was chosen as a candidate for an experiment:
3. Homura was completely cut off from everything before her soul gem could vanish. That way, Madoka couldn't destroy Homulily (Homuras witch) before she was born, but the isolation by the Incubators would also not allow Homura to die.
4. So Homura ended up becoming a witch internally, creating a labyrinth inside herself while she was still alive.
5. Madoka, sensing something's up, made the plan with Sayaka and Nagisa (Bebe) to break the isolation field and let Homura die in peace
6. Homura starts inviting people into her labyrinth after the adjustments made by the Incubators, including Mami, Kyoko (alive), Sayaka, Madoka, and Bebe (dead, god, dead)
Here is wher the movie starts
During the movie, Homura (during the dialogue with Madoka, symbolized by the flowers turning back) realized that Madokas wish was her personal hell, which she endured because the suffering she took upon herself was equivalent of the hope she spread.
F*ck, I just realized that the whole "Hope and Despair balance to 0" holds true with Madokas wish too, but since Madoka wished for ultimate despair, her wish spreads hope, huh...
Either way, Homuras wish was to safe Madoka. And that was absolute. As such, she gained the resolve to safe Madoka.
Problem:
7. Kyubey, fearing the plan was gonna break down, was trying to clean things up: Learn who is Madoka, and what is the law of cycles.
8. Homura, knowing that if the Incubators plan succeeds, then Madoka is in danger, plans to fully evolve into a witch inside her soul gem. This would normally mean she'd be trapped within her own labyrinth, forever tortured by herself, however, her plan is for Mami and Kyoko to kill her.
9. Sayaka, Nagisa and Madokas plan springs into action, and they destroy the isolation field with the help of Kyoko, Mami and the reluctant Homura. Homura was first against this, until she acknowledged her own weakness. Homura was allowed a merciful death, the incubators kinda won, except...
10. Homura had decided that Incubators plan would be irrelevant, since her wish was to safe Madoka. Madoka being trapped in an eternal hell of suffering the pain of every magical girl ever created was not safed. As such, she ripped Madoka out of the Law of Cycles, something she could only due because her wish was "To be strong enough to safe Madoka next time". And now, she created a new universe. One where all of the girls can live a real, perfect live, except "Madoka"'s person no longer is part of the law of cycles.
The implications of that are still unclear. Both Madoka and Sayaka imply it's bad, but we just don't really know yet how Homuras world operates.
Btw, community nicknames:
Demon Homura:
Akuma Homura or Homucifer
God Madoka:
Madokami
About the girl familiars around Homura, they are the Clara dolls. Each presents Homura's personality and emotion and almost all are negative. The 14 were unleashed as Homura let those emotion off of her while saving the last one: Love. Love is the doll resembling Madoka that was closed and left behind while Homura left to her execution as the 14 joined the procession. This also similar to Pandora's box. When the box was opened, everything left except one: Hope. And Madoka did became Hope itself as the Law of Cycles.
5 minutes in "Kyubey is so cute ...ehm... despite everything!"
Also "I love this timeline" .... 👀 this is gonna be good
madoka sacrificed herself to save the world, and homura sacrificed the world to bring her back
Kyuubei feeling pain and being left traumatized for the first time in its existence was so satisfying to see ❤ #TeamHomura
at the ending, kyoko threw the apple because she thought she heard kids below her trying to reach for the food. she stands up in shock when she hears the apple fall in the stream, meaning no kids were there (as theyre familiars). similar to mami hearing the cup break and then seeing the black feather. she was tryna feed some kids
There's definitely supposed to be a sense of unease, but I do think this is a better place for them all (for the time being). Sayaka and Bebe (aka Nagisa) at the very least get another chance at life that they shouldn't have had to give up in the first place, but it doesn't change the fact that Homura basically extended her labyrinth to cover the whole universe. We've had to leave it all at that for like 10 years and I am SO GLAD we can maybe get some catharsis out of all of this - because Homura doesn't seem to be all about this "evil" facade she's touting. I think it's a culmination of a lot of her self-hatred and resignation towards the steps she had to take to claim any kind of victory at all, but her heart just doesn't seem really in it.
So first thing to note: Madoka and Homura ended up creating a Karmic Destiny Feedback Loop
Homura in making her wish for Madoka tied her Karmic destiny to Madoka and Madoka's Karmic Destiny increasing also increased Homura's Karmic Destiny, this explains how she was able to become a demon at the end as her power is perfectly balanced to Madoka's
Sceond Thing to note: All wishes must come true. Homura's wish was "To be strong enough to protect Madoka" and when Madoka became a god she assumed that was worth protecting UNTIL that scene when she and Madoka were talking in the flower field. In that moment Homura's understanding of "protect Madoka" changed to "Let Madoka Live a Life with the poeple she loves".
Which brings me to the thrid thing to note: Madoka and Homura are both incredibly flawed in the exact same way. Madoka and Homura are incredibly Selfless to a self destructive degree. The only diffrence is Homura seeks to protect just Madoka while Madoka seeks to protect everyone. Basically two sides of the same coin. This is why I love Madoka and relate to her so much: Her biggest character flaw is putting the worth of everyone above herself. It is very hard for someone like that to learn to be selfish and act for themselves- it's too much of a good thing to a toxic degree. Ironically the only selfish moment we ever see from Madoka was when she begged Homura to prevent her from being tricked by Kyubey and then asking Homura to kill her- this one selfish request is ironically what broke Homura and sent her down the path that lead to becoming the demon she now is.
Final notes: The movie plays heavily into bibilical themes- specirfically the book of Revelations. This could be seen as the "rapture" and the "seven years of tribulation" which is what the teacher is actually talking about at the begining of the movie to further drive this point home. The Movie came out in 2013 and was the last anime project until 2020. I assume the original intention was to relase the upcoming movie in 2020 but something behind the scenes forced them to push it back further- hence why we got the spin off series "Magia Record" in 2020 instead.
My lukewarm take on Homura's actions in this movie is that I personally think she would have been totally happy to just die like a normal magical girl and go hang out with Madoka in magical girl heaven if the kyubeys hadn't trapped her soul in a torture jar and threatened her girlfriend. Homura is also using the words of a Madoka who doesn't remember why she made the choices that she did to justify her actions that go against Madoka's explicit wishes to "make her live a normal life, even if it makes her an enemy of everyone else". I think when Madoka is threatened in anyway, Homura just goes in mega self sacrificing mode because that's what she's trained herself to do for years.
i need to be the self sacrificing madoka, and have someone be the homura that pulls me down to them
I'm so happy :') thank you so much for this, you rock so much!
Now you're ready for the 4th movie in January, i'm so excited we'll all get to share this together!!
43:40 All of this, the big battle, and Homura's Salvation, has become something truly epic for me. All of her precious friends and compatriots and teammates, those girls whom should have been living kind, fun, loud teen girl lives with Homura, doing everything they possibly can to save her, to release her into Madokami's Great Beyond, far away from despair and rage...it is truly beautiful.
I’m ao fascinated by the scene where Homura becomes a witch
55:18 If you are NOT at least slightly confused after your first watch of Rebellion, you were staring at the wall behind the screen then. It probably took me like 4 watchings to feel an actual grasp on what I saw and heard. Plus, the helpful online fans of the series who analyzed tf outta this movie.
Yeah, there's a lot that can slip by as you're trying to keep up for the first viewing. It seems like a lot of people never put together the significance of Homura's headshot trick. Since magical girl bodies are remote puppets controlled by the soul gem, they can tank a bullet to the head and be fine. But of course, Mami wouldn't remember that.
If you look at there beginning transformations, you can see references to their fates, mami’s head looks disconnected from her body, you can see homura reaching out a hand to represent her reaching for madoka, and you can see madok reaching into the labyrinth in her transformation. The cake song has references to, like Mami being cheese, babes favorite food, homura “going in circles”, madoka being a melon that breaks to “make a sweet dream.”
50:55 actually kyouko is throwing the apple to the kids asking for apple, those kids are actually homura's familiar, when homura shake her head not allow the familiar take the apple, it dropped to the water, and kyouko is surprised. No matter how many times the universe rewrite kyouko will never waste food XD
In addition, these sence were homura picking on the other girls, she waste food to kyouko, she also broke the tea cup in front of mami in 50:37.
Yeah, it's as if Homura's subconciously wanting to reach out to them, but then rejects her feelings and instead pushes them away.
This is definitely a movie that you need to rewatch a couple of times to fully get your head around, it’s so much to unpack!
46:09 Homura yearns to die here because if Madoka remembers that she is Madokami, the Incubators will snatch her up, and cause magical girls to return to turning into witches.
I loved the anime series, but what made this truly special to me is the movie. It is just such a unique storyline. I remember spending days discussing the movie and its implications online with strangers. fun times...
Homura did nothing wrong! She just became the ES to the Über-Ich (Madoka). Desire versus order. Self-sacrifice for one person vs self-sacrifice for everyone. Villain vs Hero. And they are in love your honor!
OOOOO super hyped to see this uploaded today !!! it's a rainy day and I'm not feeling well, but now today is Good 🎉
Fun fact: in the universe created by Homura, Madoka says she comes from the US, this is because in the original line, English was one of the subjects that Madoka struggled with.
I was also confused by Homura's motivations, actions and abilities at the finale of this film. My best guess is the following:
Homura is basically conflicted between giving up on her wish (of being with Madoka and protecting her) and realizing her own wish. Their wishes are essentially in conflict, as Homura specified she would protect Madoka, which she can't if she is just herself and Madoka is a god. In her witch form Homura was fully willing to abandon her wish, ending as a witch was a way out, to let herself be destroyed in order to protect Madoka's wish over her own. But she knew that if given the chance to fulfill her wish, saving the Madoka she knew (in this case from becoming this increasingly abstract god thing), she wouldn't be able to stop herself from taking it, which is why she was begging Madoka not to save her. I'm guessing Homura's wish, specifically the part about her being to one to protect Madoka, was what gave her the ability to take (some of?) Madoka's god-powers.
She wants to both save Madoka from the eternal self-sacrifice she has chosen, but she also wants to respect her decision and autonomy. She knows she can't do the former without breaking the latter. So as long as she gives into the despair of the former not being possible she can keep herself from breaking the latter.
I suspect this wasn't meant to be an ending, that it was always meant to be followed up on and explored further in the next film, but it kept being postponed.
Homura took madoka`s powers because in Homura`s laberynth (when they are in the hill with the flowers) Madoka said to Homura that being separeted from her loved ones would be very painful and unbeareble, so Homura then knew that Madoka was really suffering being a god and Homura took her down from that position for her to be able to live normally again. If Homura did nothing, and agreed to go with the Law of the cycle, she knew that Madoka would continue suffering for eternity, thats why she did what she did.
I think i explained myself correctly.
No comment on the weirdness of the intro, huh?
The PUELLA MAGI, HOLY QUINTET almost didn't happen, someone thought it was too cheesy for Madoka Magica. Someone told them 'that's the point' and it stayed in.
Sayaka being 'the raspberry' in The Cake Song might have some significance to you, her Japanese VA is Eri Kitamura and also voices Precure's Cure Berry. Raspberries are also known as 'the healing fruit' in Japan apparently.
The Dreamlike Mitakihara really threw me off the first time too. I just accepted that it was like, arty and pretty and shit, but no.
I think Witches, Wraiths, and Nightmares are Majo, Majuu, and Naitomeerusu in Japanese, if you listen to the voice acting.
I have never ever noticed the spilled tea on the table and I've watched this movie a lot. But on that note, you can see a little flash of Mami's yellow ribbon in the corner of the screen when Homura asks her to fuckoff to the kitchen so she can kidnap Bebe. It's a little terrifying that she picked up and knew to safeguard against Homura's bullshit.
When she's interrogating Bebe and why she's doing this, you can hear Bebe say 'Kyuubei'... it's not translated or anything, but the sounds are there.
"I feel like they still could have talked this out..."
Yeah, but that's 100% one of Homura's character traits. In her multiple loops she'd learned that revealing those unpleasant truths never did anything good - no one ever listened to what she had to say. It's to her detriment - she comes off as weird and cold and creepy. Once again she reveals Some Shit and Mami doesn't really even acknowledge it, she's just like, "Homura, what happened to you?" So Homura gives up on diplomacy.
Reminder: A Magical Girl's body is just exterior hardware. You might think Homura just grazed her skull or something - no, she 100% blew her brains out. Mami never would have learned that secret - that's why she panicked.
Homura revealing that she started to think Madoka and all of the timelines she went through were just shit she made up and that she thought she was going crazy is such a resonant fear for me personally. For something so incredibly important to you to seem like it was just a delusion you came up with...
Remember, as the burning zeppelin falls and everything begins to go up in flames - the name 'Homura' means 'flame'.
"There's just one last thing I want to confirm, and then I'll end everything, and trouble you no further. I'm sorry for getting you involved in this." Is also such a scary fucking thing to hear over the phone with a friend.
The flaming bus is like the most metal thing.
Seeing someone get blindsided by Homura being the witch is so satisfying. All the other youtubers seem to just guess it.
The Isolation Field is also such a fucking scary thing. It partitions a piece of the universe from A LAW OF THE UNIVERSE.
Homura being an S-class fuckup who can do nothing but fail. She fucked up and told QB about the previous state of the universe, catalyzing this entire thing and almost fucking up Madoka's wish in the process. It's also demonstrated in the rest of the movie - she gets got by Mami, fails to capture Sayaka...
In that big crazy climactic fight imagine being one of the non-Magical Girls trapped in the labyrinth though, Ms. Saotome or Madoka's parents or someshit. Just seeing like that Tiro Finale delete half the city...
I think Homura wants them to kill her because she's afraid that if they save her, they'll give QB what QB wants - God Madoka showing up to let them understand. She also WANTS to suffer for Madoka, let's be real.
One thing that a lot of people seem not to get about the ending is that QB almost did it. This was their VERY FIRST ATTEMPT to enslave Madoka and reinstate the old Witch-based magical girl life cycle and they almost just straight up did it. We know Homura's sharp - she probably understands that they have infinite time and functionally infinite magical girls to keep trying to do it - or actually, maybe they'll don't even need to do that. They just modify The Isolation Field so that it DOESN'T let outside forces in, and magical girls will just be born into witches anyway. If she let Madoka take her away, that's 100% a Lose Condition for Madoka - her wish would be broken and doubtless she'd be unhappy in how she failed to make all magical girls happy. That shit's completely unacceptable for Homura.
After the Universe is rewritten, Homura disses both Mami and Kyouko. Kyouko's not wasting an apple, she's trying to share it with the kids below - but those are Homura's servants, just there to trick her into wasting it. Her hopes were on dying - she placed her faith in them that they'd kill her. They didn't, so knowing what she does, she had to hurt Madoka by taking control of her Godhood, and she's taking it out on them.
To be clear all of it was 'real'. Eventually all magical girls falter - at the end of her 'life' the QBs snagged her up to try this shit. She's in some kind of weirdass wasteland - it's unknown where the fuck that is or what happened, though. All of the weird shit you see in the movie was likely true, but just like you, no one really questioned it. The movie is contextualized as a 'dream', after all - and all of the weird imagery of a 'dream' is also never questioned. It's similar to the mind manipulation that the victims of a Witch's Kiss are under.
More exists in the form of Magia Record, which is Probably Not Canon, but I think if you reacted to it you might be the first to do it.
The Clara Dolls seem to act more on Homura's subconcious feelings, unless they're being directly ordered by her. So when they ask Kyoko for an apple, it reads to me more like she subconciously reaches out for Kyoko's friendship via the Clara Dolls... but then conciously chooses to reject it (by shaking her head). But I definitely agree that she's spiting Mami and Kyoko for not killing her during the climatic fight like she trusted them to do.
i only see this ending as a w since sayaka is alive and with her gf, bebe/nagisa is alive with her new mom (mami) and madoka is alive and doesn’t have to carry the burden of all magical girls. the incubators are potentially being tortured by homucifer which tbh, love that for her. let kyubey’s race can deal with all the curses homura released, they’re finally getting what they deserve