The battleship SMS Markgraf at Scapa Flow
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- This is the Markgraf, a 25,000 ton Konig class battleship which turned turtle as she sank. She was deliberately scuttled after the end of WW1 to prevent her falling into British Hands ( Der Tag ).The Markgraf fought at Jutland where she engaged the British battlecruisers & the Fifth battle squadron (HMS Warspite et al). We did two short dives on her using just air, dive buddy was Phil Harper, Max depth 42m. the highlights of the dives were a 15 cm casement gun, the armoured belt, intact portholes, an Imperial German Navy flag left by visiting German divers and the twin rudders
I wonder if the German divers left the flag as a tribute to the Markgraf's captain, who was killed during the scuttling, along with eight other sailors.
I think that the German attitude to the scuttling of their entire High Seas Fleet at the end of the war( actually 6 months later) is pride at a final act of rebellion after they were forced to accept a draconian peace treaty.
@@iciclediver Probably in some right-wing groups it is remembered with something like pride or defiance in the face of national shame... I find it strange that someone will place a Reichskriegsflagge on an Imperial Navy ship that sank basically without losses. It was sunk deliberately and noone was hurt (exceptions apply here, but not due to the fact of drowning while the ship sank). The vast majority of Germans would not have a clue about the sinking of the Hochseeflotte. Imperial times, the Kaiser and the whole shabang are light years away for the average German as there is also no daily reminder of the fact that the country once was a monarchy. Emperor Wilhelm could also be a family member of emperor Palpatine for many.
@@iciclediver One more question: Which of the ships is in best condition? As I heard, part of the ships were salvaged? From all the battleships left in European waters, I assume these are the most accessible ones? HMS Royal Oak will be too damaged, I believe? HMS Audacious might be too deep under water in the open sea. Scharnhorst and Bismarck very much so, Tirpitz is salvaged. And all the vessels by the Royal Navy were scrapped. Barham exploded...did I forget some?
Firstly I will reply to your 1st post, I think you are being a bit hard on the Germans, WW1 was a European war mostly fought within the rules on both sides. The flag the German divers placed on the wreck is WW1 vintage rather than the Nazi Kriegsmarine flag of WW2. It should not have any left or right wing connotations---------------------------------------Of the German ships left at Scapa flow I think the Kronprinz Wilhelm is the most intact simply because if you are brave enough you can swim underneath the hull at 38m to access the main 12" guns. HMS Vanguard at Scapa is a war grave & blown to bits due to a magazine explosion & subsequent salvage. HMS Royal Oak is in very good condition having only been lightly salvaged after the war but diving on her is now prohibited. The person who taught me to dive used to dive on her often until she was declared a war grave & the Harbour master at Scapa banned all diving on her. She is probably the most intact battleship in European waters.-----------------------------------------Of the other ships you mention, my friends have dived Audacious at around 66m on rebreathers/Helium. Although she sank after hitting a single mine she is well broken up but her gun turrets are impressive. The British & German losses at Jutland are also diveable on Rebreathers but are well broken up (Magazine explosions)
@@Loretta2004 If you'd fly a Reichskriegsflagge in Germany, you'd certainly would be seen as right-wing extremist. However much of the appeal of using it out of context is because it's the closest thing to nazi symbols that is allowed. The remembrance of scarpa flow is pretty much alive. Just a month ago there was a news article about the 101 anniversary in German yellow press news paper "Bild". So I would say, you cannot say anything about the people, who placed it there.
Probably also a bad idea to let shortly defeted Germans watch over "their" ships.
Its a real shame when ships sink upside down, much rather see the decks and the structures built onto the superstructure.
I agree and would add that if the Markgraf was sitting upright the main guns would only be in approx 25m which would make it a much longer & less narcotic dive
It's because they were top heavy once they submerged so they flipped upside down and hit the seabed upside down or on their sides.
@@mandelasi Well, they also deliberately "pulled out the plugs" in only one side of the ships, so that they turn upside down and be much more difficult to raise (as far as I know - not that I've ever raised a German battleship ;))
@@xxxoof_lordxxx2655 oh I see. I wasn't aware of that. That makes sense.
@@xxxoof_lordxxx2655 Cox reckoned it was easier to raise an upside down ship than an upright one, obviously the hull would be mostly or entirely air tight so his divers had far less to seal. Even damage to the outside could be repaired by making timber and rubber patches and bolting them into place. Upright ships needed the entire topside sealed and airtight for the compressed air to lift it, necessitating all pipes, hatches, doorways, casements etc to be airtight under pressure before pumping began. They set compressors and airlocks on the upturned hulls of the ships.
The Man Who Bought A Navy by Gerald Bowman is the classic account of Cox and Danks salvage of the High Seas Fleet at Scapa in the 1920's and 30's. Worth obtaining a copy, the things the divers did, working six decks down in a submerged battleship trying to find every opening mostly by touch, is incredible.
A beautiful flag for a beautiful ship.
You might be surprised. When I made my first trip to Scapa even the 35m Cruisers seemed very deep at the beginning of the week but by the end of the week I was a lot more confident. Its amazing how much your diving improves in a week at Scapa especially if you've got an experienced diver with you. Hope you have a great time.
iciclediver could you give us some advice if we want to dive at scapa? And most important: Is there any sharks on Jutland sea?
Do you think there is chance that atleast one of these ships could be refloated and restored as floating museum
@@mczg4954 To be honest, no, they are too badly corroded to be lifted in large sections. They would just fall apart under the strain.
@@iciclediver and which one is in best shape?
Royal Oak is the best preserved ship but she is a war grave and therefore cannot be disturded. Koenig is probably the German ship in the best condition but even she has massive hole in her from salvage
She was a magnificent battleship in her time.
The flag its a sign that some of us dont forget the people that did sacrifices in the past...
Diving on wrecks like this is like a trip through time, very awesome video.
Her flag still flying
Cuz it's still proud
Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria and its still clean, feels like that was installed a few days ago
It's not though, as is mentioned in the video, it was left by German divers, it's a modern flag.
@/dev/RerunCipher Or just eroded by currents... why tell me this? (Also the flag is stated as on one of the prop shafts, so it's not as if the original would've been _there_ either.)
You didn’t think that was an original flag 🤦♂️
Commander Walther Schumann was the last German soldier KIA in w.w. 1 on June 21 st 1919.
Yes and apparently he is buried at Scapa Flow in the military cemetery at Lyness
Nice video, I didn't see the flag in 2012 but Kevin was our skipper. He is top bloke who really knew his stuff. Great weeks diving on the Scapa wrecks and from a divers point of view I'm glad Mr Cox didn't lift them all!
A sad end to a beautiful ship
Love the commentary alongside the video.
Dived the Markgraf in 1982 and bottomed out at 48m.
Only had 10 minutes bottom time as we all dived on compressed air back then and we're all being advised to do no-stop dives. How times have changed.
Great video btw
The open hatch on the keel might be an access hatch to allow workers to inspect and repair the double bottom when in dry dock. fuel and water tanks were often in these spaces, Battleships carried a quantity of oil fuel, although the Queen Elizabeths were the first British Battleships to be fuelled solely by oil.
Suggest it may be where the water inlet/overboards are located
@@benwilson6145 ah thanks. Interesting. I looked in Warship Design from 1907 to see if there was an explanation but it was all about sub-division and metacentric heights!!
Thinking about it it would have been easier to access the double bottom internally for inspection.
How can you downvote this, great video!
My dream is to dive Scapa Flow.
Still dreaming.
It looks like mushrooms growing on the ships hull.
Very interesting video with a good narrative. If I may correct your description she was not scuttled at the end of the war to prevent her from falling into British hands. There had been a naval arms race from the late Victorian era which carried on up to the second world war. Following the armistice which ended the fighting of the first world war, but did not agree the peace terms, the German Imperial Navy was held in a kind of limbo at Scapa Flow and denied communication with those negotiating terms. The allies were unable to agree on how to share out the fleet as America was seeking to curb Britain's naval power. After many months of frustration the Germans scuttled the, by then rat infested, fleet in order that they could end the stalemate and go home. Several of the ships were raised and some could have been refurbished as warships but the arms race meant that they had to be scrapped for a fraction of their potential value.
I agree yours is a more complete account than I provided in the Description and for a complete account can I recommend 'The Grand Scuttle' . I hope to return to Scapa before the Centenary celebrations of the scuttling
i think i may have been there at the roughly the same time as you filmed this.... i recognise the flag !
If it helps this dive ( actually two dives ) was on 24 and 25 August 2011. I must admit to being well impressed by the sudden appearance of the flag as we ascended from the hull.
As if the flag is still intact, that’s really interesting
some other diver left it there
I think, the flag must been left shortly before judging from the condition. There is a diving video with another flag from '19 where the diver explains the flag was left for the 100th remembrance a month before and it looked much worse.
Yes, my first visit to Scapa Flow was in 1995 and if you have not been back recently, you will be shocked at how quickly the ships are deteriorating. This is especially true of the light cruisers. I will be uploading more videos soon which may illustrate this
Very nice pics & narration
Reichskriegsflagge : the most beautiful flag of all times. Bye from Italy 🇮🇹
Very nice..enjoyable
Very good. Nice video and great narration. Thank you.
3:07 I will not lie, them putting the flag is kinda cute
Ah, brings back memories of the early ninties
what a great video andrew .great to look back at it,
GOTT MIT UNS
Gott was never mit the huns. Gott is British.
The huns are asian people you idiot
Rundfunker - The nick-name 'huns' was given to the Germans by the British public and press in both world wars, and that is what Raymond Gill is clearly alluding to.
Paul Kirkland Yes, I know. But the problem is that most of these people thought and still think that Germans actually are former Huns which is absolute BS
Rundfunker - I don't know whether 'most people' think that way ( I haven't seen the statistics ) but why automatically assume Raymond Gill is one of those people ?
The heraldic 'Gott Mit Uns' and the slang use of 'Huns' are contemporaneous, and it's not a difficult connection to make, given the topic of this video. Raymond Gill's use of the word is perfectly appropriate, so why react in such a thoughtless and insulting manner ?
The flag amazingly still looks new
No surprise, the flag is new! 😆🤣😁
Divers have put it up.
Available online for little money.😁
Is she the only German BB still left in Scapa Flow?
There are three or four iirc, plus a few cruisers and destroyers
Wonderful film. Very enjoyable.
nice commentary, you know were you are ship wise as you journey around. to many vids come with no audio aid which is a shame as most vids are good.
Ship's been sunk for a century now. She literally sleeps with the fishes!
Thanks Phil, the DVD is finished and I will be handing them out at the baths. If you can't make it e-mail your address
!!!! New flag??????
Yes some German divers installed it.
HI really like the way you have talked over the video explaining what you are showing. I'm booked up for scapa in September really looking forward to it but i wont be doing this wreck 42m is a little to deep for me at the moment recently qualified sportdiver.
I got the same flag 2 days ago :)
that flag still in there what a legend
It was put there Champ
That was interesting.
3:05
The Flag stand, that fcking beautifull
Seems virtually all of the battleships landed upside down with the scuttlings. What was the reason for it not being raised like most of the others?
I think I Have said it before but as these wrecks are deeper, they were left to the end and by then world war two intervened and their were no slips available to break them up so they were left for us
They were scuttled by their crews in a defiance of the surrender.
Can you find KMS graf zepplein
Any ammo still on board?
No - These ships were ordered to make their way to Scapa flow as part of the armistice agreement that ended WW1. They were inspected by the British en-route to ensure that their was no ammo onboard & I think the breech mechanisms were disabled. The Germans removed their optical range finding equipment before they sailed to prevent the British getting their hands on it. Hope this helps
iciclediver
I read that they have just salvaged the optics from the Graf Spee.
Toy Pupanbai
iciclediver I did not know that, German optics are often credited with allowing them to land the first hits although others argue the British system came into its own during the intense phase of the battle.
3:21=Sqapa Flow is in Geman Hand.
I think you are being a bit ambitious, your navy was utterly defeated by ours in both world wars. Your army is a different matter.
🤔 Here's the thing that has me scratching my head..... Why in God's name would you go to all the trouble of installing a massively thick and heavy 13" armored belt, then put freaking glass windows(portholes) up and down the length of the hull!? I'm pretty darn sure they had electric lighting on German ships, so its not like they absolutely required the portholes for light. Didn't it ever occur to anyone that having an armored belt is almost pointless if even a smaller caliber shell can bust right through a porthole and explode inside!? 🥴🤪
Look up 'deadlight' on portholes. The complete sides of battleships are never fully armoured as they concentrate the armour over the vitals
Can the public dive the German high seas fleet at Scapa Flow?
If you mean by public, suitably qualified scuba divers then yes. If you mean non divers then I believe their used to be a tour boat from Stromness with an ROV that showed non divers a virtual dive while they hovered above the wreck. These are not war graves.
iciclediver hm I guess I’ll have to get scuba certified or whatever, would love to see these things despite what the water has done to them likely for over a century, thanks!
3:12 flag is still there
😎🇩🇪
some german divers placed it there recently. legends lmao
@@tankadar German naval divers replace the old imperial ensign regularly, just as British divers do on HMS Royal Oak.
Who left the flag there?
some German scuba divers
why was this not raised with the others?
raul duke I've had a look on the Web & it's probably because the Konig class battleships sank in relatively deep water which made them more difficult to salvage than the other ships. They used to raise the ships by connecting circular shafts onto the upside down hulls and pumping them out with compressed air. The workers had to work in the compressed air making the holes airtight and so would have been susceptible to Caissons disease/the bends/nitrogen narcosis as these ships are at around 40 metres maximum depth. I suspect that they just took the easier ones first and by the time only the Konigs were left there was no market for their scrap. There has been some small scale salvage on the ships using explosives to remove the non-ferrous metals and they also utilise the armour plate in radiation detectors as it is not contaminated by the various nuclear tests which occurred after WW2.
Maybe the logistics at the time did not allow for the ship to be turned in order to be raised. The German Imperial Flag still there must be a new addition, right?. Haunting but beautiful at the same time.
Chào bạn nhé rất vui biết kênh bạn video hay lắm thật thú vị ngày mới an vui may mắn bạn nhé
Your a lucky lad then. The USA is the only nation that has preserved some of its old Battleships. Put "battleship museum" into Wiki & it will list them. They are mostly WW2 ships but the USS Texas is a WW1 super dreadnought similar to these German ships
to bad that USS Texas is in very bad shape .. theres a monumental battleship serving in 2 WW´s and she is neglected all year long .. hope she can saved and is treated with a lil more love ..
Misaka in Japan is from 1890
is that u The Mighty Jingles doing the voice over
I am afraid not, although I do enjoy some of his WoW videos on youtube. I've just got a similar British accent, Looking forward to British & German fleets eventually arriving.
Imperial Germany in the house.
i'm proud being germans
Why?
I mean zeppelin
F
What's stopping you from salvaging the scrap and cleaning up this mess now? This is not war grave. It's a politically motivated scrap dump.
Not You they’re too deep and salvaging her would cost more money then she’d make back
@@kkhagerty6315 Another words: The Life's of the crew is not worth spending the money to get them into dry graves, right?
Not You considering that nobody died on-board during the scuttling there’s no dry graves to give, and even if there where it’s better to leave them in their final resting place then to disturb them
@@kkhagerty6315 what about all those that died in ships sunk in shallow water? USS Arizona is the most blatant example of turning a crew into martyrs for the sake of "too much money" to recover them while surrounded by friendly shores in shallow water. Meanwhile, USS Main gets a coffer dam build in open ocean, gets refloated and almost all dead crew gets reburied as they should. Convenient? Yes, for political reasons. Given that wars make people poore, there's no excuse to stop trying to find the dead and give them proper burial decades after the conflict is over. Salvaging ships with no dead crew would be a priority just for ecological point of view. Perfect example of doing nothing to a known ecological disaster in the making is the transport ship Stutgard or Franken. Both have tanks of fuel and some of it is synthetic stuff that sinks into the sand and spreads out killing everything in its way...
Not You Arizona is a wargrave and the survivors have asked for her to not be disturbed