HI Thank you for great discourse on this difficult subject. I just have to point out an error in the Aramaic spelling of the word Tana which has been erroneously spelt Shin Nun Hey, Where it should be spelt Tav Nun Hey/.Shalom to you in Christ Yeshua.
A partial answer to this Misspelling is that many Aramaic words agree with the Hebrew except for the first letter. For example is the word "Wool." In Ivrit it's צֶמֶר and in Aramaic its עֶמֶר .
So my question is, are there Jewish or other sources that do let us know what the synagogue practices were in Yeshua’s and Paul’s day? The speaker said “what was church service like for Jesus” - that is an important question to ask and understand. What was the structure, order, and practices in the common people’s synagogue? Is there a book or teaching that you know of that expounds the truth of these practices in the first century? I recently went to a Messianic congregation and I asked about the liturgical part of the meeting because it was difficult for my teenage kids to sit through. He said that Yeshua did the same liturgical things in the first century. I had said to Him, I did not know that to be true and needed to understand - what did Yeshua do and practice in the first century? Hoping you could stead me to someone’s teaching on this issue or a book. I appreciate it!
This is a much harder question to answer than you might think. We know that they read the Torah (and we see this in the New Testament witness) we know that they read the profits. But beyond this, it becomes a lot of guess work. It also depends what group the synagogue would have belonged to. There was not one monolithic Judaism in the first century.
No, not at all, the point of the message is that we are unable to read the Mishnah back into the first century because it is (at the earliest) a 3rd or 4th century document. The entire point is that we can not take the Mishnah as a first century document.
Thank you for your replies, I appreciate your time. Sorry to belabor my questions, - I understand the message of the video, on another note - for the leader to make the comment he did, saying that Yeshua was involved in routine prayers and repetition of liturgy..., is a stretch at the very least because we don't know what it was like in the synagogue on the Sabbath in Yeshua's day.
You're point is well taken, however, the New Testament texts continue to have Yeshua praying. We know that certain sects did have liturgical prayer, and that Yeshua's followers also kept some forms of liturgy. A good example of this (but not the only one) are the Passover liturgical traditions that make their way into the Gospel narratives. Beyond this, Yeshua Himself instructs His disciples how to pray. When it comes to specific liturgies, we do have some evidence within other sects such as Qumran, but the specific liturgical prayers that Yeshua would have said we are unable to be dogmatic about.
None, did you even watch the video? The title is 'tongue in cheek'. I would suggest watching the video before you comment. The whole point of this teaching is that we can not read the Mishnah (a fourth century document at the earliest) into the first century. There was no Mishnah around when Paul lived.
Its not irrelevant, as many within the Hebrew Roots and Messianic movement continue to try to read the Mishnah back into the New Testament. Its extremely relevant. I would be happy to answer your question, but once again, I am not sure why you are commenting on a video you haven't watched. The Kabbalah doesn't come around until the 12th century, so it would have no influence on Paul and would have zero influence on first century Judaisms. Watch the video.
Messiah Matters by TorahResource You’re mistaken as Rashbi wrote it. Moreover, Yitzhak of Acco admits in his account 20 years after his investigation that Sefer HaZohar was indeed divine.
Mishna what is repeated ? Second time I heard this confusion of words. Midrash carrythe root DRSh which means "repetition effort", and translated by "study". The root of Mishna leads us far away from Midrash meaning. With mishna we have the meaning of a kind of tool to manage events, the root is related to an historical view point on events, a summurize of events.
Torah written on heart.......memorization in heart through action and able to speak from heart without ever needing to recite but in actually having in self as foundation. There is a level in which one can recite things but those things are not really in their hearts. Are they filled with knowledge or just showing that they are in recitation? Some do have on heart, others have as a use for superiority. Is this what is done daily recitations? There is no possibility for man to say the oral Torah written was not divinely given but it is in what one does with it that shows the heart. Hashem doesn't need reciters without heart, He needs no human. Humans need Him. And they need in the heart..........they not need just to be able to recite.
What the Churchianity Believers think of the Bible's non-chronological timing could very well be better thought of as "Batch Filings" from ComSci jargon by analogy.
The Jews who knew / know not Jesus were / are self-absorbed pertaining to anything rabbinic. A partial hardening has happened to Israel as the text reads in Romans 11 : 25. Only the elect Jews will be saved.
Paul stopped reading any and all versions of the heretical man made Talmud after he was called by the Messiah. Paul became a genetic Jew( a benjamite) but not a philosopical jew. Our Messiah condemned the man made oral tradition of the Pharisees.
Totally non sens. Paul allowed to break torah's laws for pagans converting to his religion and this is an evident man made. Your claim are ridiculous front the jews, even pharisies, even Jesus himself. Paul was not a jew philosoph but an hellenistic one. His jew identity is doubful, like his meeting with Jesus. Faith and historical even are two different things.
@@victoremman4639 I never said Torah, I said Talmud. The man made doctrines of the Pharisees. The Mishna, Kabbalah, and Jewish mysticism are all sinful doctrines
@@hillbillysceptic1982 I'm not jew nor christian, but from my point of view, the worse man-made is christianity. Earlier, paul of tarsus, the inventor of christianity, changed totally the Jesus's laws (judaism). So here you complain about oral jew tradition or Qabbala when christianity went further in their inventions, through the centuries. Listen clearly : christians claimed that Jesus is a god ! Even for Jesus it's an abomination this christian claim. Even if you are right, mishna, talmud and qabbala is man-made, it's still closest to Jesus faith than christianity.
@@victoremman4639 Christianity is a man made doctrine but it wasn’t made by Paul. It was made by Emperor Constantine and the heretical Roman Catholics. Paul taught Gentiles to keep Torah. Paul quit Judaism, which is a heretical man made doctrine that the tribe of Judah picked up during the Babylonian captivity. Yahshua(Jesus) openly taught his disciples to beware the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees(modern Orthodox Judaism)Matthew 16. Judaism is the doctrine of the coming Antimessiah.
The question should be "Is it that Paul ever existed" ? And thus, "Which Mishna the authors of paul's letters did read". We have no reported of paul of tarsus nor in jewish memory, nor from F. Joseph, nor any historical reported except these captives letters of the NT attribuated to paul, just words on paper his existance, very strange affair.
Wow. Total paradigm shift for me. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this teachings
Not just the Mishnah, what was the Bible that Paul read … hmmmm, yeah - Torah only.
Bit at 48:00 about why oral law NOT written is key.
Thanks!
dont h stop brother stay buzy teaching i will come out my book
as soon as this year, same proof teaching,
Awesome!!
this is so important! thank you
thank you I think you can debate Rabbi T singer and his colleagues and Muslim teachers
Felix Nyathi no, I think Rabbi Singer would still crush this apostate Jew.
HI
Thank you for great discourse on this difficult subject. I just have to point out an error in the Aramaic spelling of the word Tana which has been erroneously spelt Shin Nun Hey, Where it should be spelt Tav Nun Hey/.Shalom to you in Christ Yeshua.
A partial answer to this Misspelling is that many Aramaic words agree with the Hebrew except for the first letter. For example is the word "Wool." In Ivrit it's צֶמֶר and in Aramaic its עֶמֶר .
So my question is, are there Jewish or other sources that do let us know what the synagogue practices were in Yeshua’s and Paul’s day? The speaker said “what was church service like for Jesus” - that is an important question to ask and understand. What was the structure, order, and practices in the common people’s synagogue? Is there a book or teaching that you know of that expounds the truth of these practices in the first century? I recently went to a Messianic congregation and I asked about the liturgical part of the meeting because it was difficult for my teenage kids to sit through. He said that Yeshua did the same liturgical things in the first century. I had said to Him, I did not know that to be true and needed to understand - what did Yeshua do and practice in the first century? Hoping you could stead me to someone’s teaching on this issue or a book. I appreciate it!
This is a much harder question to answer than you might think. We know that they read the Torah (and we see this in the New Testament witness) we know that they read the profits. But beyond this, it becomes a lot of guess work. It also depends what group the synagogue would have belonged to. There was not one monolithic Judaism in the first century.
That is what I thought, so would you say this leader was making some major leaps saying what he did?
No, not at all, the point of the message is that we are unable to read the Mishnah back into the first century because it is (at the earliest) a 3rd or 4th century document. The entire point is that we can not take the Mishnah as a first century document.
Thank you for your replies, I appreciate your time. Sorry to belabor my questions, - I understand the message of the video, on another note - for the leader to make the comment he did, saying that Yeshua was involved in routine prayers and repetition of liturgy..., is a stretch at the very least because we don't know what it was like in the synagogue on the Sabbath in Yeshua's day.
You're point is well taken, however, the New Testament texts continue to have Yeshua praying. We know that certain sects did have liturgical prayer, and that Yeshua's followers also kept some forms of liturgy. A good example of this (but not the only one) are the Passover liturgical traditions that make their way into the Gospel narratives. Beyond this, Yeshua Himself instructs His disciples how to pray. When it comes to specific liturgies, we do have some evidence within other sects such as Qumran, but the specific liturgical prayers that Yeshua would have said we are unable to be dogmatic about.
Paul straight up quoted the old testament extensively. What verses from the mishnah did he quote?
None, did you even watch the video? The title is 'tongue in cheek'. I would suggest watching the video before you comment. The whole point of this teaching is that we can not read the Mishnah (a fourth century document at the earliest) into the first century. There was no Mishnah around when Paul lived.
Then it is irrelevant. May I ask this question? (don't know if allowed here, but) Is there any connections, or parallels, to the Kabala?
Its not irrelevant, as many within the Hebrew Roots and Messianic movement continue to try to read the Mishnah back into the New Testament. Its extremely relevant. I would be happy to answer your question, but once again, I am not sure why you are commenting on a video you haven't watched. The Kabbalah doesn't come around until the 12th century, so it would have no influence on Paul and would have zero influence on first century Judaisms. Watch the video.
Messiah Matters by TorahResource You’re mistaken as Rashbi wrote it. Moreover, Yitzhak of Acco admits in his account 20 years after his investigation that Sefer HaZohar was indeed divine.
Mishna what is repeated ? Second time I heard this confusion of words. Midrash carrythe root DRSh which means "repetition effort", and translated by "study". The root of Mishna leads us far away from Midrash meaning. With mishna we have the meaning of a kind of tool to manage events, the root is related to an historical view point on events, a summurize of events.
What is the speakers name?
Tim Hegg from TorahResource.com
Torah written on heart.......memorization in heart through action and able to speak from heart without ever needing to recite but in actually having in self as foundation. There is a level in which one can recite things but those things are not really in their hearts. Are they filled with knowledge or just showing that they are in recitation? Some do have on heart, others have as a use for superiority. Is this what is done daily recitations? There is no possibility for man to say the oral Torah written was not divinely given but it is in what one does with it that shows the heart. Hashem doesn't need reciters without heart, He needs no human. Humans need Him. And they need in the heart..........they not need just to be able to recite.
Uncircumcised of heart
What the Churchianity Believers think of the Bible's non-chronological timing could very well be better thought of as "Batch Filings" from ComSci jargon by analogy.
The Jews who knew / know not Jesus were / are self-absorbed pertaining to anything rabbinic. A partial hardening has happened to Israel as the text reads in Romans 11 : 25. Only the elect Jews will be saved.
Paul stopped reading any and all versions of the heretical man made Talmud after he was called by the Messiah. Paul became a genetic Jew( a benjamite) but not a philosopical jew. Our Messiah condemned the man made oral tradition of the Pharisees.
Totally non sens. Paul allowed to break torah's laws for pagans converting to his religion and this is an evident man made. Your claim are ridiculous front the jews, even pharisies, even Jesus himself. Paul was not a jew philosoph but an hellenistic one. His jew identity is doubful, like his meeting with Jesus. Faith and historical even are two different things.
@@victoremman4639 I never said Torah, I said Talmud. The man made doctrines of the Pharisees. The Mishna, Kabbalah, and Jewish mysticism are all sinful doctrines
@@hillbillysceptic1982 I'm not jew nor christian, but from my point of view, the worse man-made is christianity. Earlier, paul of tarsus, the inventor of christianity, changed totally the Jesus's laws (judaism). So here you complain about oral jew tradition or Qabbala when christianity went further in their inventions, through the centuries. Listen clearly : christians claimed that Jesus is a god ! Even for Jesus it's an abomination this christian claim. Even if you are right, mishna, talmud and qabbala is man-made, it's still closest to Jesus faith than christianity.
@@victoremman4639 Christianity is a man made doctrine but it wasn’t made by Paul. It was made by Emperor Constantine and the heretical Roman Catholics. Paul taught Gentiles to keep Torah. Paul quit Judaism, which is a heretical man made doctrine that the tribe of Judah picked up during the Babylonian captivity. Yahshua(Jesus) openly taught his disciples to beware the doctrine of the scribes and Pharisees(modern Orthodox Judaism)Matthew 16. Judaism is the doctrine of the coming Antimessiah.
I dont think Talmud was totally abandon. Just parts that were burdensome, broke Torah, or or contradicted.
The question should be "Is it that Paul ever existed" ? And thus, "Which Mishna the authors of paul's letters did read". We have no reported of paul of tarsus nor in jewish memory, nor from F. Joseph, nor any historical reported except these captives letters of the NT attribuated to paul, just words on paper his existance, very strange affair.
The Mishana wasnt even written until 1180 C.E. so what are you talking about, this is nonsense!
That's the point of the title. You should probably watch the video before you comment so that you understand that is his entire point.