What an age we live in! I listened to this great conversation while driving a 20 tonne truck around the West Country in the UK. Due to my householder status I have duties to undertake to support others, yet through the wonders of technology I am able to fill my work time with podcasts such as this and audio books such as the recognition sutras. Thanks again for another great podcast
A quick thought re: the “fighting for causes”, at this point in my life I feel like the “actor on the stage” witnessing them and supporting/participating to whatever degree although from a remove based on spiritual shifts as was discussed-seeing a very young person (reminding of the way I was at that age) speaking about a cause that means so much to them does bring a true clear kind of joy, feeling really similar to the joy of The spiritual liberation, just to witness it. Two I remember from recently are a teen girl (taking place in an area of radically intolerant views) commenting on a rainbow pride bracelet I was wearing during pride month once with so much love in her heart and excitement in her eyes at the sight of someone else supporting something evidently very meaningful and powerful for her. Also the young man doing outreach on the street for planned parenthood during the recent anti-abortion lawmaking; after I told him I couldn’t donate but supported his efforts and thanked him, when walking away he calls out “make sure you go to the protests”. In one casual moment on a busy sidewalk I’ll never forget the sincerity and hope in his voice …consciousness expressing itself through politics may have moved on since I have been in the awakened phase, but its like you can feel a really pure love of humanity through the eyes of others while in this state, and like you can view others and their consciousness in a brilliant, fresh new way …being the “actor on the stage” is fun and comes with a lot of responsibility it would even seem to help foster consciousness via your “new” insights
"Relaxation" was a very important principle that only recently (in the last 2 years of 4 decades of practice & study) came to the forefront of my practice. Some teacher at some point mentioned to me that "bodily tension is an indicator of non-enlightenment." I just went right past that teaching without giving it it's due value. Until maybe 2 years ago. I now make good use of noticing and utilizing "relaxation" as a practice - especially relaxing bodily tension, which then (ironically perhaps) then directs the relaxing of the mind (and emotions). I used to "think" relaxing had to happen in my mind before I could relax the body, but I now see that the body has it's own intelligence and this intelligence can be released to help the mind (in its relaxation). Ie, the body can lead the mind. Great discussion once again Hareesh, it's like you give voice to my deepest thoughts 😂🙏❤
Wow, I'm loving it. The realisation that the the self you thought you were was just a mental construct really feels like a death. It's similar to taking the clothes you wear to be real you & when you got naked you feel terrified about how you can feel like you are dead and at the same time alive. I would like an episode on Matrika ( Language Goddess, if I said it properly) & how language traps you into Duality. I know you have talked about *signifier* and *signified* and how we confuse these two and most suffering is because of that. One really amazing thing I found recently which I think you'll like too is how ACT therapy is based on Relational Frame Theory which basically tells how language binds us by creating chains of meanings & association which causes Human Suffering. I find ACT therapy quite a complementary to non dual teachings.
Great conversation between two of my favourite teachers -- thank you very much. The advice about how to take practice into daily life (or make daily life the practice) at 1:02:20 is pure gold.
43:30 and onward about consciousness/energy is brillant. That has become almost the entirety of my "practice" lately. Everything is consciousness. All "I" experience is consciousness.
Just because you both personally don't experience permanent bliss doesn't mean it's not possible. Saccidananda, bliss consciousness is truly the natural state of being. It is the ground of reality.
@@christopherwallis751 Yes, speaking from direct experience, many on AYP have the same experience as well as others in tantra related traditions such as kriya.
@@christopherwallis751 Have you ever thought about reading some of the yoga upanishads? I'd highly recommend at least the Yogashikha Upanishad (100BCE-300CE. Many of the concepts and practices in there predate and influence Trika Shaivism.
Do you teach Tantra? And if so Shavist ones or vajrayana or both? Are you coming from an unbroken lineage or just mixing stuff mma style? (Not that i care that much) And if yes do you take students in an online format?
@@christopherwallis751 Do you charge for your teachings? I'd love to become your student (although I have no money at the moment, for I just moved from Holland (I'm dutch) to France and haven't found a job yet) About a year ago had an awakening in the sense that I didn't exist in the way I thought I did and since then everything is deepening to the extend that it feels like there is movement of seperation or grasping at the ultimate truth at all. I do have trauma's and see the potential for developing more everyday wisdom (which feels like it can deepen forever) So I've been going through shadow work with my girlfriend who specializes in psychoanalysis with a preference for Jung. She also woke up around the same time as I did. I grew up with two vajrayana students as parents and later on lived in France at the Rigpa center when a three year retreat was going on there. So growing up with shamata meditation (eventhough I don't really do mindfulness meditation anymore) and Tibetan/vajrayana culture around me was quite normal for me eventhough it was a big constrast with people in knew in Holland. Lately I tried to visualize a deity and discovered the great (psychological) strength these practices had especially when you don't rationalize visualization away from some sort of conventional worldview as I got a bit scared. But this peaked my interest in Tantra as having immense psychological transformation power but I also felt that without guidance this practice might be difficult to do so that's why I want to find a teacher although I don't like that vajrayana has this thing of seeing the guru as infallible and 100% devotion to a person. Which doesn't mean I am against devotion in principle. So when I discovered the video you did about Shavism with Taft I was pleasantly surprised. And find it's devotional quality beautiful like I commented on your video.
@@christopherwallis751 Do you charge for your teachings? Because I would love to become your student but I have no money at the moment as I am 22 and just moved from Holland to France without being able to find a job. More then a year ago I had a fundamental shift in identity in that I didn't exist in the way I thought I did and that what I thought I was is a constructed character. Since then this inside has been deepening to the point that there is zero movement whatsoever the grasp at what the ultimate truth is. (As I was reading what all the traditions had to say and how this will develop and it brought a feeling about that maybe there was more to be understood.) And now there still is trauma that I've been trying to uncover with my girlfriend (who woke up around the same time as me) trough psychoanalytic methods which as a psychology graduate she knows a lot about. My parents are both vajrayana students but cannot talk about their practice due to samaya vows, and I grew up with Tibetan/vajrayana culture around me and lived as a kid during a three year retreat that they were doing. Lately I tried to visualize a deity and was astonished by the (psychological) power this has, especially when you do not rationalize visualization away in some common sense dualistic worldview up to the point I got a bit scared. So since then unlike before I became really intrested in Tantra and wanted to find a teacher but I do not like the guru devotion in vajrayana that much in the sense of seeing the guru as infallible and immune to criticism. So when I saw your Shavism tantra video with Taft I was absolutely hooked and loved the poetic beauty in that tradition like I typed in your comments. It would be a honor to learn from you as I think it's smart to find someone you can guide you in these intense practices.
@@christopherwallis751 Do you charge for your teachings? Because I would love to become your student but I have no money at the moment as I am 22 and just moved from Holland to France without being able to find a job. More then a year ago I had a fundamental shift in identity in that I didn't exist in the way I thought I did and that what I thought I was is a constructed character. Since then this inside has been deepening to the point that there is zero movement whatsoever the grasp at what the ultimate truth is. (As I was reading what all the traditions had to say and how this will develop and it brought a feeling about that maybe there was more to be understood.) And now there still is trauma that I've been trying to uncover with my girlfriend (who woke up around the same time as me) trough psychoanalytic methods which as a psychology graduate she knows a lot about. My parents are both vajrayana students but cannot talk about their practice due to samaya vows, and I grew up with Tibetan/vajrayana culture around me and lived as a kid during a three year retreat that they were doing. Lately I tried to visualize a deity and was astonished by the (psychological) power this has, especially when you do not rationalize visualization away in some common sense dualistic worldview up to the point I got a bit scared. So since then unlike before I became really intrested in Tantra and wanted to find a teacher but I do not like the guru devotion in vajrayana that much in the sense of seeing the guru as infallible and immune to criticism. So when I saw your Shavism tantra video with Taft I was absolutely hooked and loved the poetic beauty in that tradition like I typed in your comments. It would be a honor to learn from you as I think it's smart to find someone you can guide you in these intense practices.
Also, no, oneness and enlightenment is not available to everybody at all times by merely being a shift in perspective. It isnt a mental or intellectual activity like that where thinking about something differently gives a different experience. It is a process of shedding one's identity, moving in time, peeling off the layers of ahamkara one by one. Which is in itself a very painful and difficult process and rarely instantaneous. The ones for whom it is instantaneous have been in the process across lifetimes, they are so evolved that it took them a push or a nudge this time. A process of evolution across space- time spanning liftimes. Tantra and mantra are the process of this shedding and purifying of the identity to wither it away so much that one day the true self is experienced as a merging into God. An emotional, mental and emobdied process where even the body is purified where it can hold the states of merger with God. This takes time and relentless sadhana. It is not available for everybody at all times, no. That is a frustrating idea for a true knower of tantra and the divine.
"It is a process of shedding one's identity, peeling off the layers of ahamkara one by one . . . It isn't a mental or intellectual activity." -- absolutely agree. this is exactly what I teach, in fact. (You might have gotten the wrong idea of my view from this one conversation.) What is "available for everybody at all times" is simply the beginning of the process, the initial shift that can get the ball rolling. But liberation is a challenging and even arduous process that most will avoid if they can. Still, the fact remains that anyone passionate enough about liberation can be liberated in this life.
@@christopherwallis751 I have to apologize, I was impulsive in my comments. I am so hungry for knowledge about Tantra in English because of the deep cultural deracination my whole generation has faced . I don't know how to read Hindi well , let alone Sanskrit. So I crave for knowledge in English and naturally gravitate towards channels like yours. And then encounter too much abstraction and feel disappointed. I know you are not those advaita - vedantin , non dual types who say " you are already enlightened, there is nothing to be done " . You are serious Tantra scholars. It was a great conversation, but I felt lacked the embodied aspects of tantra. It was an enjoyable conversation, thankyou
What an age we live in! I listened to this great conversation while driving a 20 tonne truck around the West Country in the UK. Due to my householder status I have duties to undertake to support others, yet through the wonders of technology I am able to fill my work time with podcasts such as this and audio books such as the recognition sutras.
Thanks again for another great podcast
Great to hear! Love Devon btw
Not the first time I hear it but my understanding is much clearer. Thanks.
A quick thought re: the “fighting for causes”, at this point in my life I feel like the “actor on the stage” witnessing them and supporting/participating to whatever degree although from a remove based on spiritual shifts as was discussed-seeing a very young person (reminding of the way I was at that age) speaking about a cause that means so much to them does bring a true clear kind of joy, feeling really similar to the joy of The spiritual liberation, just to witness it. Two I remember from recently are a teen girl (taking place in an area of radically intolerant views) commenting on a rainbow pride bracelet I was wearing during pride month once with so much love in her heart and excitement in her eyes at the sight of someone else supporting something evidently very meaningful and powerful for her. Also the young man doing outreach on the street for planned parenthood during the recent anti-abortion lawmaking; after I told him I couldn’t donate but supported his efforts and thanked him, when walking away he calls out “make sure you go to the protests”. In one casual moment on a busy sidewalk I’ll never forget the sincerity and hope in his voice …consciousness expressing itself through politics may have moved on since I have been in the awakened phase, but its like you can feel a really pure love of humanity through the eyes of others while in this state, and like you can view others and their consciousness in a brilliant, fresh new way …being the “actor on the stage” is fun and comes with a lot of responsibility it would even seem to help foster consciousness via your “new” insights
Hi Chris, thank you for a snippet of wisdom on how to handle intense energy. will give it a try
"Relaxation" was a very important principle that only recently (in the last 2 years of 4 decades of practice & study) came to the forefront of my practice. Some teacher at some point mentioned to me that "bodily tension is an indicator of non-enlightenment." I just went right past that teaching without giving it it's due value. Until maybe 2 years ago.
I now make good use of noticing and utilizing "relaxation" as a practice - especially relaxing bodily tension, which then (ironically perhaps) then directs the relaxing of the mind (and emotions).
I used to "think" relaxing had to happen in my mind before I could relax the body, but I now see that the body has it's own intelligence and this intelligence can be released to help the mind (in its relaxation). Ie, the body can lead the mind.
Great discussion once again Hareesh, it's like you give voice to my deepest thoughts 😂🙏❤
please consider joining our learning portal at tantrailluminated.org for indepth discussion, satsang, and Q&A !
Wow, I'm loving it. The realisation that the the self you thought you were was just a mental construct really feels like a death. It's similar to taking the clothes you wear to be real you & when you got naked you feel terrified about how you can feel like you are dead and at the same time alive. I would like an episode on Matrika ( Language Goddess, if I said it properly) & how language traps you into Duality. I know you have talked about *signifier* and *signified* and how we confuse these two and most suffering is because of that. One really amazing thing I found recently which I think you'll like too is how ACT therapy is based on Relational Frame Theory which basically tells how language binds us by creating chains of meanings & association which causes Human Suffering. I find ACT therapy quite a complementary to non dual teachings.
Thanks for a very interesting conversation.
I loved that bit about the human developing in the womb, just had that insight this week during practice-- thank you🙌🏼as always
Great conversation between two of my favourite teachers -- thank you very much. The advice about how to take practice into daily life (or make daily life the practice) at 1:02:20 is pure gold.
43:30 and onward about consciousness/energy is brillant. That has become almost the entirety of my "practice" lately. Everything is consciousness. All "I" experience is consciousness.
Two of my favorite authors
wow your podcasts are getting better and better ❤
Supreme episode indeed.
Enjoying the podcasts, Hareesh. Could be nice to have them timestamped as well, but it's more work, I know.
I liked the conversation.
thank you!
Video more interesting 👍
15:00 I think this is true for most of us, same.
1:15:49 so far and this podcast seems like you are both interviewing each other lol
1:24:14 oh wow that's perfect
❤❤❤
Just because you both personally don't experience permanent bliss doesn't mean it's not possible. Saccidananda, bliss consciousness is truly the natural state of being. It is the ground of reality.
Are you speaking from your direct experience?
@@christopherwallis751 Yes, speaking from direct experience, many on AYP have the same experience as well as others in tantra related traditions such as kriya.
@@christopherwallis751 Have you ever thought about reading some of the yoga upanishads? I'd highly recommend at least the Yogashikha Upanishad (100BCE-300CE. Many of the concepts and practices in there predate and influence Trika Shaivism.
@@bigislandmonero2122 it's actually the other way around. Scholars have established that the yoga upanishads are late medieval texts.
@@bigislandmonero2122 so you're saying that you experience permanent non-stop blissfulness?
Do you teach Tantra? And if so Shavist ones or vajrayana or both? Are you coming from an unbroken lineage or just mixing stuff mma style? (Not that i care that much) And if yes do you take students in an online format?
@@lucasheijdeman2581 Yes to all that ;)
@@christopherwallis751 Do you charge for your teachings? I'd love to become your student (although I have no money at the moment, for I just moved from Holland (I'm dutch) to France and haven't found a job yet) About a year ago had an awakening in the sense that I didn't exist in the way I thought I did and since then everything is deepening to the extend that it feels like there is movement of seperation or grasping at the ultimate truth at all. I do have trauma's and see the potential for developing more everyday wisdom (which feels like it can deepen forever) So I've been going through shadow work with my girlfriend who specializes in psychoanalysis with a preference for Jung. She also woke up around the same time as I did. I grew up with two vajrayana students as parents and later on lived in France at the Rigpa center when a three year retreat was going on there. So growing up with shamata meditation (eventhough I don't really do mindfulness meditation anymore) and Tibetan/vajrayana culture around me was quite normal for me eventhough it was a big constrast with people in knew in Holland. Lately I tried to visualize a deity and discovered the great (psychological) strength these practices had especially when you don't rationalize visualization away from some sort of conventional worldview as I got a bit scared. But this peaked my interest in Tantra as having immense psychological transformation power but I also felt that without guidance this practice might be difficult to do so that's why I want to find a teacher although I don't like that vajrayana has this thing of seeing the guru as infallible and 100% devotion to a person. Which doesn't mean I am against devotion in principle. So when I discovered the video you did about Shavism with Taft I was pleasantly surprised. And find it's devotional quality beautiful like I commented on your video.
@@christopherwallis751 Do you charge for your teachings? Because I would love to become your student but I have no money at the moment as I am 22 and just moved from Holland to France without being able to find a job. More then a year ago I had a fundamental shift in identity in that I didn't exist in the way I thought I did and that what I thought I was is a constructed character. Since then this inside has been deepening to the point that there is zero movement whatsoever the grasp at what the ultimate truth is. (As I was reading what all the traditions had to say and how this will develop and it brought a feeling about that maybe there was more to be understood.) And now there still is trauma that I've been trying to uncover with my girlfriend (who woke up around the same time as me) trough psychoanalytic methods which as a psychology graduate she knows a lot about. My parents are both vajrayana students but cannot talk about their practice due to samaya vows, and I grew up with Tibetan/vajrayana culture around me and lived as a kid during a three year retreat that they were doing. Lately I tried to visualize a deity and was astonished by the (psychological) power this has, especially when you do not rationalize visualization away in some common sense dualistic worldview up to the point I got a bit scared. So since then unlike before I became really intrested in Tantra and wanted to find a teacher but I do not like the guru devotion in vajrayana that much in the sense of seeing the guru as infallible and immune to criticism. So when I saw your Shavism tantra video with Taft I was absolutely hooked and loved the poetic beauty in that tradition like I typed in your comments. It would be a honor to learn from you as I think it's smart to find someone you can guide you in these intense practices.
@@christopherwallis751 Do you charge for your teachings? Because I would love to become your student but I have no money at the moment as I am 22 and just moved from Holland to France without being able to find a job. More then a year ago I had a fundamental shift in identity in that I didn't exist in the way I thought I did and that what I thought I was is a constructed character. Since then this inside has been deepening to the point that there is zero movement whatsoever the grasp at what the ultimate truth is. (As I was reading what all the traditions had to say and how this will develop and it brought a feeling about that maybe there was more to be understood.) And now there still is trauma that I've been trying to uncover with my girlfriend (who woke up around the same time as me) trough psychoanalytic methods which as a psychology graduate she knows a lot about. My parents are both vajrayana students but cannot talk about their practice due to samaya vows, and I grew up with Tibetan/vajrayana culture around me and lived as a kid during a three year retreat that they were doing. Lately I tried to visualize a deity and was astonished by the (psychological) power this has, especially when you do not rationalize visualization away in some common sense dualistic worldview up to the point I got a bit scared. So since then unlike before I became really intrested in Tantra and wanted to find a teacher but I do not like the guru devotion in vajrayana that much in the sense of seeing the guru as infallible and immune to criticism. So when I saw your Shavism tantra video with Taft I was absolutely hooked and loved the poetic beauty in that tradition like I typed in your comments. It would be a honor to learn from you as I think it's smart to find someone you can guide you in these intense practices.
Also, no, oneness and enlightenment is not available to everybody at all times by merely being a shift in perspective. It isnt a mental or intellectual activity like that where thinking about something differently gives a different experience. It is a process of shedding one's identity, moving in time, peeling off the layers of ahamkara one by one. Which is in itself a very painful and difficult process and rarely instantaneous. The ones for whom it is instantaneous have been in the process across lifetimes, they are so evolved that it took them a push or a nudge this time. A process of evolution across space- time spanning liftimes. Tantra and mantra are the process of this shedding and purifying of the identity to wither it away so much that one day the true self is experienced as a merging into God. An emotional, mental and emobdied process where even the body is purified where it can hold the states of merger with God. This takes time and relentless sadhana. It is not available for everybody at all times, no. That is a frustrating idea for a true knower of tantra and the divine.
"It is a process of shedding one's identity, peeling off the layers of ahamkara one by one . . . It isn't a mental or intellectual activity." -- absolutely agree. this is exactly what I teach, in fact. (You might have gotten the wrong idea of my view from this one conversation.) What is "available for everybody at all times" is simply the beginning of the process, the initial shift that can get the ball rolling. But liberation is a challenging and even arduous process that most will avoid if they can. Still, the fact remains that anyone passionate enough about liberation can be liberated in this life.
@@christopherwallis751 I have to apologize, I was impulsive in my comments. I am so hungry for knowledge about Tantra in English because of the deep cultural deracination my whole generation has faced . I don't know how to read Hindi well , let alone Sanskrit. So I crave for knowledge in English and naturally gravitate towards channels like yours. And then encounter too much abstraction and feel disappointed. I know you are not those advaita - vedantin , non dual types who say " you are already enlightened, there is nothing to be done " . You are serious Tantra scholars. It was a great conversation, but I felt lacked the embodied aspects of tantra. It was an enjoyable conversation, thankyou
@@shwetasinghnm there's another episode of the podcast that discusses the centrality of embodiment, the one with Michael Taft.