I've played a rogue since vanilla and every expansion following to max level and I think this is a great video overall and you give lots of great tips and tricks. I appreciate how you threw in some of your errors and things like that because the reality of these raid fights is that something will always come up that will prevent or hinder us from being completely optimal. As you mentioned, staying alive is extremely important and avoiding unnecessary damage to take stress off the healers is key to success in the raid. Sure it is fun to top the meters, but as long as you are contributing and not screwing the raid over, then you are an asset to the raid. Well done :)
I agree being a liability to the raid for a few extra dps is never worth it, but with knowledge and precise timing you can optimize your damage and raid contribution up a tier or two by just being present and responsive.
7:30 Here I'd highly recommend pooling energy. You have 8 seconds until your energy is full, and 6s on SnD. You wait, pop SnD with 2s to spare before full energy, and continue on with what would be the most optimum use of energy. Pooling is something I rarely see rogues doing lately, and it's a night and day difference as to how organized you get to be with resources.
Shadowcraft procs make pooling not as good. Also, because I have 5 combo points I'm 100% going to get 25 energy back. This means that if I were to get a ShadowCraft proc in addition to the 25 energy that's 60 energy meaning I would waste energy if I was above 40 energy after I use a finishing move.
@@Zatar Correct, which really means that 2 second buffer I mentioned is your global. Cutting off your SnDs 5 seconds early, or using an evis and having to SnD 2 ticks later, is a dps loss. Shadowcraft won't, or shouldn't, change your pooling on anything lower than 65 energy.
I used to pool energy all the time, but now I do not pool often because of Shadowcraft which we talking about above, but also if you are fighting any boss with a cc mechanic or a fight like baron or rag, if you do not use all of your energy asap, you can get cc'ed or have to run out and lose damage. I think once I replace Shadowcraft I will return to pooling more on specific fights.
Slice and dice at rank 1 is the most efficient use of combo points. This is because it starts at 12 secs and only gets increased by 4 for every combo point after. So try not to use more than 1-2 combo points on slice and dice. Save that for evis.
@@Metalgear222 ye but a 5 cp slice and dice will save u a ton of energy that u could use on sinister strike or backstab, ( and evisc, as well, obviously )
@@TheAntares315returns yep but the fact that u need to use 25 energy each time u use it wants u to use s&d the least amount possible no ? ( struggling a bit to express myself in english soz )
@@NOTCRAW 14 seconds is enough to regen energy and get points for a good eviscerate, and is 25 energy yeah, but is 25 energy is so cheap for a dps upgrade
Dont forget that you can delay your backastab if your SND is up. Its usefull when you want to improve dps with a crusader proc, or waiting the full armor debuff etc
On Garr- his debuff lowers movement speed AND attack speed. Vanish and improved sprint BOTH remove debuffs that decrease movement speed- which means you can remove the attack speed debuff twice. once the debuff drops- use vanish OR sprint to remove it and adren rush and bladeflurry. Once the debuff hits do the other to stay ahead of the pack.
Dagger rogue here - what I do is open with ambush, pull off a sinister strike, and then hit S&D. Reason is because I found that I wasn't getting off any eviscs using a one point S&D and spamming backstab. Switched it up to a two point S&D, and then I start bursting with a mix of backstab and sinister strike, at least if I can burst whenever. That way I can pull off enough backstab crits but also have enough CP to pull off a nice evisc. Highly suggest trying this if you're a dagger rogue struggling with your rotation.
As dagger it is fine if you don't get an eviscerate, and using sinister strike will lower your damage. You will get eviscerate if you use adrenaline rush or thistle tea.
All of the rogues in my guild are combat swords. I really like daggers and since I leveled with them have no issue with position for ambush and backstab. I'd love to hear from more pros that are running combat daggers especially since there is more competition for sword drops and there are more dagger drops in raids.
Running daggers as well for raiding, I really like it. Being able to pull off some brilliant damage with enough crits is really fun. Good luck hunting - hope you can get your hands on decent daggers and Mugger's Belt or ACLG. Tanks have been needing on ACLG and daggers on my realm left and right haha
Also make sure to cast sinister strike/hermo/backstab after you've done an auto attack so you don't mess up the swing timer, this may be the best tip to increase your DPS
Hey Zatar, I've got a concern and would love your advice. I'm leveling an ambush rogue with a build similar to your sub build. I'm having so much fun with world pvp but I'm 57 and am unsure what to do when I hit 60. Do I spec back into combat/swords or should I stick with daggers? Or is their a viable way to pvp with combat/swords. I just love ambushing so much and dont want to constantly be respeccing.
The best bet if you don't want to Respec would be to play seal fate daggers and then put points and improved backstb and improved ambush. Keep in mind you will be doing less damage than other people and Dungeons and raids, but this spec is able to perform well in PvP and PVE
This is more of a "why your guild sucks" tip, but you should not have to feint or vanish nor wait to open to stay under your tank's threat if your tank is properly specced and geared, under normal circumstances. I have some 99% parses including Ony, and don't have to feint or vanish to avoid pulling. Our MT is fury/prot and wears DPS pieces such as savage gladiator chain and onslaught girdle with good weapons. This allows the whole raid to go full blast instead of gimping themselves to let the tank keep up. This is probably the single biggest change a guild can make to improve overall raid dps: simply a tank who does real damage.
Hey Zatar, love the content. I looked at your spec. Why did you do 2/3 ruthlessness and 1 in relentless strikes as opposed to Murder and 5/5 lethality? It’s different from most dagger talents.
I take Relentless strikes over 5/5 lethality because Relentless strikes will give you on average five energy back per backstab, reducing the cost of your backstab about 8% meanwhile one point in the lethality would increase your backstab damage by only 3-6%. For ruthlessness, I plan to take murder when bwl comes out but until then I and I'm not too certain which is better, but it does synergize with relentless strikes and ShadowCraft which I am still using currently.
Looking at the damage meters they are both pretty evenly matched but he has windfury since the horde have shamans which can increase dps by a good amount
Man... all the stuff I ask other rogues about is in this video. The only thing this video lacks is the ridicule and scorn that the other rogues DO offer in return. Haha
How to do top dps as a rogue in raids is fairly simple and straightforward. Hope the dps warriors in your raid are trash. Not saying rogue dps is subpar because it's not but DW Fury warriors even with the veritable lack of upgrade options in MC, are already beginning to pull away from us assuming they know what they're doing AND are hit capped. Rogues will routinely top the charts during fights, until execute range that is. I'm 15-31-5 daggers and have been since raiding started. I still haven't managed to get a perdition's blade which is really holding me back, but only one has dropped for our guild since SEPTEMBER. I've done the 6pc shadowcraft thing which is nice but I eventually went away from it due to wanting a larger health pool. The only two items I can even target in MC still are Perds and Strikers. Two big items but I'll get them eventually.
Love the videos. But how do you manage to keep the threat low before the 3rd phase of onyxia when you use your vanish so early in the fight. Shouldn't you be using vanish right before she comes down for phase 3?
Because I vanished, I usually do not end up at the top of the threat meter by the time phase 3 comes around. If you want to make sure, you could save it for phase 3, but in that Onyxia fight, the tank was so low on threat compared to me that I would have had to stop dps if I didn't vanish.
@@Zatar Do you know how onyxia's fireball works? It wipes your threat. Imagine now mt taking a fireball and you not. Enjoy tanking onyxia. Vanish should be used when onyxia comes down from p2 to p3 to DODGE THE FIRST FEAR + ERUPTION DMG. Boy, vanish have a 0'5 invulnerability frame when it pops.
maybe stupid question but all the time beside snd off of cool down you are spamming back stab ? is there a reason why not doing sinister strike all the time but backstab instead ? is it cause you are most of time behind boss and making more dmg in between auto attacks or?
@@Zatar and maybe because "front backstabbing" is not working becayse game play 1vs1 with mob doing backstab is pretty annoying I would say.. ok so I am not missing much here as on raid fights you are most of the time behind target.. thx for confirmation
I dont use adrenaline rush and bladefury at the same time. If someone pulls agro and the mob turns (im a dagger rogue) I lose dps from having burned all my cds at once. Sure nobody should pull agro but it's WoW so yeah. Good point on Magmadar though...the early fear will ruin your day.
Most classic fights in a good raid last 15-20 seconds. You should be using your cds before the fight even starts, a second or two so they do not take up GCD's in your roration.
please reply to this if you can with dagger rogues can u constantly spam backstab i thought we'd have to time the auto attacks so we dont cancel an auto attack by using backstab especially because we want slice and dice up at all times?
Backstab does not impact you auto attack. The only reason you might want to use a swing timer woth daggers is if you are horde with windfury. In that situation timing swings will give you a very minimal dps increase.
I actually have an ony specific video where I talked about that. If I remember right in this situation our feral Druid just really didn't have much threat for some reason. Still should have held vanish
Why do you mention using SS after main hand swing as a sword rogue... but you dont do it with backstab as a dagger rogue on the horde side... its the same thing. except with hoj/winfury procs -.-
@@taurica6522 yup. Like i said. Fury warrior is not only tankier it does more dps. No use for a rogue. Especially considering the loot distribution. Easier and more helpful for loot to go to fury.
Johnathan Era well fury warriors can offtank. And fury prot maintank. Also farming might be better due to charge and battleshout. But sure repairing is more expensive and pvp is worse too. Although fury can knock down a lot of melee.
Bruh save vanish for when Ony is coming down from p2 because you should be backstabbing her entire p2 and if u waste it during p1 than when she comes down from p2 ur screwed. Also go in each boss fight with poisons on both daggers I’ll leave for you to figure that one out other than that mostly good tips
@Zatar Ragnaros wrath only hits the lowest THREE GUID's on the raid (melee near him),, GUID= game unique identifier ; meaning the first characters created on the server .. so it will always be the same three people as long as they are in range... In other words, ALL melee can stay in and burn the boss and have dedicated healers for those 3 people... If you are lucky the tank is NOT the lowest GUID and also some warior dps so they can intercept back in knockback... 100% down rag before submerge everytime even w bad DPS :D Teach your raid leader something
Dont understand why everyone is wearing t2 helms when t1 is better. I buff up to 53% crits on raids and top dps over perditions rogues even though I only have a gore dagger.
For your comment about leveraging CDs when a proc happens can you explain why that may be better? To me +100ap now is the same as +100ap later when you consider dmg over the total fight, unless you're just going for spicy numbers or max crit hits
For example during a regular Crusader proc you might use 4 sinister strikes. So your Crusader will increase the damage of all of your auto attack during that time and the 4 sinister strikes. If you saved your adrenaline rush for when you got a crusader proc, you would instead be able to use 4 more Sinister strikes during the Crusader proc and you would generate extra damage because the 4 additional Sinister strikes now benefit from crusader. The same applies to blade flurry. The increased attack speed used in combination with Crusader will give you bonus damage.
It is better to use Shadow Oil than Instant Poison in Molten Core mainly due to many mobs being immune to poison and especially if you got Shadoweaving and CoS in raid. Spellpower do affect Shadow Oil damage but aint nobody got gold for that.
i could be wrong here but why are u using ambush, ever? according to my calculations u will do more dmg with backstab in the long run. if u crit ambush ofc it does more dmg than a crit from backstab but my rogue has 70% crit from backstab and only 40% crit from ambush so in the long run backstab is going to do more dmg with lethality and backstab specced.
@@Jyoutei I know for a fact that there is no reason to use ambush over stab as combat daggers. Only answer that is appropriate here is admitting that he fked up and misinformed the audience.
@@alexp8924 Yeah I should not have used Ambush, did not even realize I did until I started recording. I also did not mean to intend to advocate for using ambush during the video. I should have pointed out the mistake in the recording.
You want to know a major mistake you are making? your entire opener is that classic opener that lower tier beginner rogues use. The most effective and optimal opener actually is blood fury if your orc like you should be BSx2 Thistle tea BS into 3 point SnD Blade Flurry feint (onlyif threat is to high after all the opening backstabs)Adrenaline rush BS x5, 5 point Evis (you can also vanish ambush here instead of BS if your threat is high after bursting) BS SnD
Why would you want to wait 4 globals before getting slice and dice up? Why would you want to blood fury so far away from your adrenaline rush and blade flurry? Also ambush does less damage than backstab in PVE spec.
Also NEVER open with ambush. Backstab is far mor optimal because of the the 30% higher crit chance not to mention the reduced movement speed really hurts your uptime.
This guys doing top dps 0% of the time. On ony you want to save your vanish for the start of p3 so you can avoid the fear and be free to dps while the tank picks up ony.
Overall I got feeling most dps dont give a shit about their threat. And once they have aggro blaim the tank since they are to dumb to understand. Makes tanking really frustrating sometimes.
Have you tried Seal Fate? Currently running SF with Claw of the Black Drake and still hoping on a good OH(corehound perhaps) as atm I still have Trash Blade. The spec is kinda awesome; check it out and pm me perhaps pls? Cheers, mate!
i didnt find any video how to work with my SS and swing , still am looking after or before swing finish, if you can provide any ez video for improving my damage at Raid because is really bad ( Swords)
Maja Think wrong. It’s very important with weapon swing timer for combat swords rogue. You should always sinister strike after you just did an auto swing. Because if you proc sword specialization from the sinister strike it will reset your auto attack swing timer. So if you have let’s say a 80% completed auto attack, you will waste that auto. It can be as much as a 10% dps loss on longer fights if you don’t sinister at the right time.
@@glenamo ridiculous comment, sinister strike has a 27% chance to weave in an extra auto if timed correctly. couple that with sword spec (more chance to double hit) and also a strong leveling sword like thrash blade (that also has a double hit proc) and the difference is life or death.. if you dont know dont mislead someone.
@ilawjunior You basically want to SS as soon as you swing with your mh. If you are horde you also want to consider pooling energy for when you get WF proc ( get WA for that or some addon). If you really want to try hard like a crazy person you could also include your offhand swing into your decision making (ideally you want offhand be almost done while mh just finished) but that is probably too demanding to do unless you are in some super static fight and some custom swing timer addon to pull it off because it is asynchronous process.
bit funny how you say it's really important when you use cds, just a few seconds after you've used your cds before Ony transitioning into flight phase :P
The best time to use your CDs is when she is transitioning because it reduces the amount of time she's in the air. That is what I did in the clip. Maybe you're referring to vanish? I generally try to save my vanish for phase 3 when she is landing.
@gardakan936How do you "get a sense of the timing" when the timing changes at random intervals? HoJ, WF, and Sword Spec procs all reset the swing timer and it's easy to miss if you're stacked on other players, or 2 or 3 of these proc back to back - which is really pretty common
@@Zatar Interesting. I play alliance. Why did the time expire? I really am not sure how the windfury mechanic works for rogues. I did know that it's priority for MH, but not seen it in action. Thanks for the reply!
@@jackoverholser7792 You simply only put poison on your off hand, so that your Main hand is free to recieve windfury when it procs (which can't happen when main hand is coated with poison)
On horde side you do not want to put poison on your main hand. You instead want windfury weapon. Also nowadays I use the poisoner add-on which reminds me if I need to refresh my poisons.
I've played a rogue since vanilla and every expansion following to max level and I think this is a great video overall and you give lots of great tips and tricks. I appreciate how you threw in some of your errors and things like that because the reality of these raid fights is that something will always come up that will prevent or hinder us from being completely optimal. As you mentioned, staying alive is extremely important and avoiding unnecessary damage to take stress off the healers is key to success in the raid. Sure it is fun to top the meters, but as long as you are contributing and not screwing the raid over, then you are an asset to the raid. Well done :)
I agree being a liability to the raid for a few extra dps is never worth it, but with knowledge and precise timing you can optimize your damage and raid contribution up a tier or two by just being present and responsive.
7:30 Here I'd highly recommend pooling energy. You have 8 seconds until your energy is full, and 6s on SnD. You wait, pop SnD with 2s to spare before full energy, and continue on with what would be the most optimum use of energy.
Pooling is something I rarely see rogues doing lately, and it's a night and day difference as to how organized you get to be with resources.
Shadowcraft procs make pooling not as good. Also, because I have 5 combo points I'm 100% going to get 25 energy back. This means that if I were to get a ShadowCraft proc in addition to the 25 energy that's 60 energy meaning I would waste energy if I was above 40 energy after I use a finishing move.
@@Zatar Correct, which really means that 2 second buffer I mentioned is your global. Cutting off your SnDs 5 seconds early, or using an evis and having to SnD 2 ticks later, is a dps loss.
Shadowcraft won't, or shouldn't, change your pooling on anything lower than 65 energy.
I used to pool energy all the time, but now I do not pool often because of Shadowcraft which we talking about above, but also if you are fighting any boss with a cc mechanic or a fight like baron or rag, if you do not use all of your energy asap, you can get cc'ed or have to run out and lose damage. I think once I replace Shadowcraft I will return to pooling more on specific fights.
Thanks for making these videos! You do a great job at explaining things clearly and precisely. Really helps as a new rogue in classic :)
if you use your adrenaline rush less than 1 second before a new energy tick, you get 7 adrenaline ticks instead of 6
Slice and dice at rank 1 is the most efficient use of combo points. This is because it starts at 12 secs and only gets increased by 4 for every combo point after. So try not to use more than 1-2 combo points on slice and dice. Save that for evis.
@@Metalgear222 ye but a 5 cp slice and dice will save u a ton of energy that u could use on sinister strike or backstab, ( and evisc, as well, obviously )
@@NOTCRAW what he says is than if u always spend only 1p on slice and dice, and u manage well, u will get 14 seconds per point instead of 14+4+4+4
@@TheAntares315returns yep but the fact that u need to use 25 energy each time u use it wants u to use s&d the least amount possible no ? ( struggling a bit to express myself in english soz )
@@NOTCRAW 14 seconds is enough to regen energy and get points for a good eviscerate, and is 25 energy yeah, but is 25 energy is so cheap for a dps upgrade
Dont forget that you can delay your backastab if your SND is up. Its usefull when you want to improve dps with a crusader proc, or waiting the full armor debuff etc
On Garr- his debuff lowers movement speed AND attack speed. Vanish and improved sprint BOTH remove debuffs that decrease movement speed- which means you can remove the attack speed debuff twice. once the debuff drops- use vanish OR sprint to remove it and adren rush and bladeflurry. Once the debuff hits do the other to stay ahead of the pack.
Great tip I did not realize this I will start doing it.
Hey Zatar, Lifehoof here :D you were in my recommendations!
Hey Lifeloof.
He was the one tanking Ony in the clip.
The auto resetting of Sword Spec also applies for all horde melee with Windfury. It resets your swing timer.
Dagger rogue here - what I do is open with ambush, pull off a sinister strike, and then hit S&D. Reason is because I found that I wasn't getting off any eviscs using a one point S&D and spamming backstab. Switched it up to a two point S&D, and then I start bursting with a mix of backstab and sinister strike, at least if I can burst whenever. That way I can pull off enough backstab crits but also have enough CP to pull off a nice evisc. Highly suggest trying this if you're a dagger rogue struggling with your rotation.
As dagger it is fine if you don't get an eviscerate, and using sinister strike will lower your damage. You will get eviscerate if you use adrenaline rush or thistle tea.
All of the rogues in my guild are combat swords. I really like daggers and since I leveled with them have no issue with position for ambush and backstab. I'd love to hear from more pros that are running combat daggers especially since there is more competition for sword drops and there are more dagger drops in raids.
Running daggers as well for raiding, I really like it. Being able to pull off some brilliant damage with enough crits is really fun. Good luck hunting - hope you can get your hands on decent daggers and Mugger's Belt or ACLG. Tanks have been needing on ACLG and daggers on my realm left and right haha
Also make sure to cast sinister strike/hermo/backstab after you've done an auto attack so you don't mess up the swing timer, this may be the best tip to increase your DPS
When your MH hits with auto-attack hit SS or BS.
as far as i know rogues abilities do not interrupt swings
@@prokhorpiskarev Answering late, but, sword spec proc should reset swing timer, as wel las windfury proc.
This is the best rogue video I've watched so far
Hey Zatar, I've got a concern and would love your advice. I'm leveling an ambush rogue with a build similar to your sub build. I'm having so much fun with world pvp but I'm 57 and am unsure what to do when I hit 60. Do I spec back into combat/swords or should I stick with daggers? Or is their a viable way to pvp with combat/swords. I just love ambushing so much and dont want to constantly be respeccing.
The best bet if you don't want to Respec would be to play seal fate daggers and then put points and improved backstb and improved ambush.
Keep in mind you will be doing less damage than other people and Dungeons and raids, but this spec is able to perform well in PvP and PVE
This is more of a "why your guild sucks" tip, but you should not have to feint or vanish nor wait to open to stay under your tank's threat if your tank is properly specced and geared, under normal circumstances. I have some 99% parses including Ony, and don't have to feint or vanish to avoid pulling. Our MT is fury/prot and wears DPS pieces such as savage gladiator chain and onslaught girdle with good weapons. This allows the whole raid to go full blast instead of gimping themselves to let the tank keep up. This is probably the single biggest change a guild can make to improve overall raid dps: simply a tank who does real damage.
If you open your Character Info you will notice that your attack power will increase while proccing windfury, your moves will benifit from that
Holy snap I'm a rogue and also named Zatar.... what an odd coincidence, any chance back in vanilla you were named Zataris?
Hey Zatar, love the content. I looked at your spec. Why did you do 2/3 ruthlessness and 1 in relentless strikes as opposed to Murder and 5/5 lethality? It’s different from most dagger talents.
I take Relentless strikes over 5/5 lethality because Relentless strikes will give you on average five energy back per backstab, reducing the cost of your backstab about 8% meanwhile one point in the lethality would increase your backstab damage by only 3-6%.
For ruthlessness, I plan to take murder when bwl comes out but until then I and I'm not too certain which is better, but it does synergize with relentless strikes and ShadowCraft which I am still using currently.
@@Zatar How do you get energy back from backstab? It isnt a finishing move?
Each backstab generates one combo point and when you spend those combo points each point averages out to 5 energy (25 energy / 5 combo points).
@@Zatar Thanks for the clarification. So it comes out to more backstabs overall but less dmg per backstab.
And the additional backstabs will come out to more damage than the increase damage per backstab.
Just right click and hold back on abilities until tank has good aggro.
Tanks being able to generate aggro is the real issue.
In your opinion what's stronger dps, combat daggers or swords? Maybe a pros and cons list? Would enjoy a video on it.
Looking at the damage meters they are both pretty evenly matched but he has windfury since the horde have shamans which can increase dps by a good amount
It's swords, it's always swords. Daggers is always competitive, but will never really do MORE dps than swords (assuming equal gear and skill).
@@justindavis2024 said the human rogue
@@TheLas1991 nope
@@justindavis2024 actually the opposite
Man... all the stuff I ask other rogues about is in this video. The only thing this video lacks is the ridicule and scorn that the other rogues DO offer in return. Haha
How to do top dps as a rogue in raids is fairly simple and straightforward. Hope the dps warriors in your raid are trash. Not saying rogue dps is subpar because it's not but DW Fury warriors even with the veritable lack of upgrade options in MC, are already beginning to pull away from us assuming they know what they're doing AND are hit capped. Rogues will routinely top the charts during fights, until execute range that is.
I'm 15-31-5 daggers and have been since raiding started. I still haven't managed to get a perdition's blade which is really holding me back, but only one has dropped for our guild since SEPTEMBER. I've done the 6pc shadowcraft thing which is nice but I eventually went away from it due to wanting a larger health pool. The only two items I can even target in MC still are Perds and Strikers. Two big items but I'll get them eventually.
RetroCNY I got perds and strikers in one of my first MCs. It was glorious
"threat" *laughs in vanish*
I need Exsmokes vid.
Love the videos. But how do you manage to keep the threat low before the 3rd phase of onyxia when you use your vanish so early in the fight. Shouldn't you be using vanish right before she comes down for phase 3?
Because I vanished, I usually do not end up at the top of the threat meter by the time phase 3 comes around. If you want to make sure, you could save it for phase 3, but in that Onyxia fight, the tank was so low on threat compared to me that I would have had to stop dps if I didn't vanish.
@@Zatar Do you know how onyxia's fireball works? It wipes your threat. Imagine now mt taking a fireball and you not. Enjoy tanking onyxia.
Vanish should be used when onyxia comes down from p2 to p3 to DODGE THE FIRST FEAR + ERUPTION DMG. Boy, vanish have a 0'5 invulnerability frame when it pops.
maybe stupid question but all the time beside snd off of cool down you are spamming back stab ? is there a reason why not doing sinister strike all the time but backstab instead ? is it cause you are most of time behind boss and making more dmg in between auto attacks or?
Backstab does more damage than sinister strike. The only reason why all rogues don't use backstab is because it requires daggers.
@@Zatar and maybe because "front backstabbing" is not working becayse game play 1vs1 with mob doing backstab is pretty annoying I would say.. ok so I am not missing much here as on raid fights you are most of the time behind target.. thx for confirmation
I dont use adrenaline rush and bladefury at the same time. If someone pulls agro and the mob turns (im a dagger rogue) I lose dps from having burned all my cds at once. Sure nobody should pull agro but it's WoW so yeah. Good point on Magmadar though...the early fear will ruin your day.
Dagger build is better then Sword in PVE?
Most classic fights in a good raid last 15-20 seconds. You should be using your cds before the fight even starts, a second or two so they do not take up GCD's in your roration.
hey bud what UI addon do you use for your raid frames?
No addon. Just messed with some of the options in interfaces -> raid frames.
please reply to this if you can with dagger rogues can u constantly spam backstab i thought we'd have to time the auto attacks so we dont cancel an auto attack by using backstab especially because we want slice and dice up at all times?
Backstab does not impact you auto attack. The only reason you might want to use a swing timer woth daggers is if you are horde with windfury. In that situation timing swings will give you a very minimal dps increase.
you will be using hand of justice for a few phases so even if youre ally you should have a swing timer if you really want to min max.
I just stop attacking then feint whenever I get close to the top of threat. Ony is not a dps race anyway.
one thing i would mention, every great guide usually is easier to understand when explained it like your audience is in the 5th grade. but good video.
Excellent video.
Which one is better on main hand dagger: Crusader or +5 weapon damage?
Both are good, but crusader is more popular recently. A popular spreadsheet people use indicates Crusader is better
Would have been nice if you included a spec or rotation.
Can you link the WA or addon for your energy bar? The one that shows when its refreshing and with how much you are on once it tics?
The addon is called NugEnergy
Awesome youtube channel. Love it!
yeah with ony I think that's wrong, use save Vanish for when she come back down from phase 2-3 to drop all threat so tank can pick back up easier.
I actually have an ony specific video where I talked about that. If I remember right in this situation our feral Druid just really didn't have much threat for some reason.
Still should have held vanish
Why do you mention using SS after main hand swing as a sword rogue... but you dont do it with backstab as a dagger rogue on the horde side... its the same thing. except with hoj/winfury procs -.-
these names look familiar is this earthfury???
Cheers 🎉
Step 1: Have bad warrior DPS
Step 2: Your done!
I agree +
Basically the only way a rogue is better than a fury warrior. Theyre worse in every other way unfortunately
@@johnathanera5863 classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1000#metric=dps&dataset=95&class=DPS
@@taurica6522 yup. Like i said. Fury warrior is not only tankier it does more dps. No use for a rogue. Especially considering the loot distribution. Easier and more helpful for loot to go to fury.
Johnathan Era well fury warriors can offtank. And fury prot maintank. Also farming might be better due to charge and battleshout. But sure repairing is more expensive and pvp is worse too. Although fury can knock down a lot of melee.
Best rogue rotation for most raiding is stealth/afk/dnd & reap the rewards
' my buddy was the OG Afk King in vanilla ;'b
Good video. SLICE AND DICE!😂😂
Heya Zatar, can you tell me the spec you are running? Thanks!
www.classicwowbuilds.com/build/view/65f42fa3-b334-47b9-a479-7e98cfd03e38/zatars-current-build/2
@@Zatar hey Zatar u still using this spec?
I still use the combat dagger spec for raiding. I take murder now that BWL is out.
@@Zatar can u show me please your talents ?
Hey man, can you tell about your addons?
What is the threat meter you are using?
Details threat plug-in
Hey , can you please load up your stream with the duels outside of .org? I had something on and would like to rewatch the stream
The vods are on twitch
what is that offhand dagger
Bruh save vanish for when Ony is coming down from p2 because you should be backstabbing her entire p2 and if u waste it during p1 than when she comes down from p2 ur screwed. Also go in each boss fight with poisons on both daggers I’ll leave for you to figure that one out other than that mostly good tips
Ivan Hall I would assume he isn’t using poison on his main hand bc of the wind fury totem
withone is the yellow potion you are using ?
Strength potion, I usually use strenth jujus though, they give 5 more strength.
@Zatar Ragnaros wrath only hits the lowest THREE GUID's on the raid (melee near him),, GUID= game unique identifier ; meaning the first characters created on the server .. so it will always be the same three people as long as they are in range... In other words, ALL melee can stay in and burn the boss and have dedicated healers for those 3 people... If you are lucky the tank is NOT the lowest GUID and also some warior dps so they can intercept back in knockback...
100% down rag before submerge everytime even w bad DPS :D Teach your raid leader something
How do you get the shamans in your party to be dark blue?
An add-on called Blue shamans
Do you have a macro or addon that is showing the reagent number on Blind and Vanish? Thanks in advance
It is called Reagent Counter
@@Zatar Lovely!
Nice video man, can you post your talent build?
www.classicwowbuilds.com/build/view/65f42fa3-b334-47b9-a479-7e98cfd03e38/zatars-current-build/0
I update this page with my talents and gear.
@@Zatar Will u change for 5/5 lethality when u are better geared?
@@Zatar Awesome, thanks man. Also if you don't mind, what raid frames are you using?
Blizzard Ui. I dont use any ui addons
I already swapped to 4/5 but you can't really afford the 5th point.
Dont understand why everyone is wearing t2 helms when t1 is better. I buff up to 53% crits on raids and top dps over perditions rogues even though I only have a gore dagger.
furries PepeLaugh-ing at this video
they only do like 10% more dps
How to Top DPS as Rogue - Proceeds to not Top DPS as Rogue in any of the Videos... Good tips tho. To top DPS is 2 things, World Buffs and Gear
You should do a video on pvp prebis and bis and talents
For your comment about leveraging CDs when a proc happens can you explain why that may be better? To me +100ap now is the same as +100ap later when you consider dmg over the total fight, unless you're just going for spicy numbers or max crit hits
For example during a regular Crusader proc you might use 4 sinister strikes. So your Crusader will increase the damage of all of your auto attack during that time and the 4 sinister strikes.
If you saved your adrenaline rush for when you got a crusader proc, you would instead be able to use 4 more Sinister strikes during the Crusader proc and you would generate extra damage because the 4 additional Sinister strikes now benefit from crusader.
The same applies to blade flurry. The increased attack speed used in combination with Crusader will give you bonus damage.
What Buff is that which looks like a yellow major healing potion?
That's probably elixir of giants.
@@justindavis2024 Yes, Elixir of Giants. It is worse the strength jujus, 25 instead of 30 strength. They are significantly cheaper though.
@@Zatar Super cheap, but farming juju's usually gives you a 2-in-1 bonus of looting winterfall firewaters.
@@MrWalkwaySc2 But you shouldnt even be using Firewaters you should be using 40 AP Jujus
@@hotdogslikebuns 5 attack power isn't a big difference and farming winterfall eko's is easier.
is shadowoil and spellpower rogue a thing?
no
It is better to use Shadow Oil than Instant Poison in Molten Core mainly due to many mobs being immune to poison and especially if you got Shadoweaving and CoS in raid. Spellpower do affect Shadow Oil damage but aint nobody got gold for that.
@@Mytelefe In this case its actually better to use elementium sharpening stones for +2% crit on each weapon for a total of 4% crit. Expensive though.
i could be wrong here but why are u using ambush, ever? according to my calculations u will do more dmg with backstab in the long run. if u crit ambush ofc it does more dmg than a crit from backstab but my rogue has 70% crit from backstab and only 40% crit from ambush so in the long run backstab is going to do more dmg with lethality and backstab specced.
You are not wrong, author is fairly clueless on the other hand. Unfortunate but not uncommon among youtubers.
@@alexp8924 Maybe you should wait out OP's answer to @Martin Mattson's comment, before making a judgement. Would be curious about the reply though.
@@Jyoutei I know for a fact that there is no reason to use ambush over stab as combat daggers. Only answer that is appropriate here is admitting that he fked up and misinformed the audience.
@@alexp8924 Yeah I should not have used Ambush, did not even realize I did until I started recording. I also did not mean to intend to advocate for using ambush during the video. I should have pointed out the mistake in the recording.
You sound just like Jim from the office
Lol I topped dps in MC tonight on MC tonight and was just telling how good feint off CD in that kind of shit is.
Good vid! Also, it's "crew-say-der" Esiason
That's how he pronounced it...
Tell your shaman to use WF
You want to know a major mistake you are making? your entire opener is that classic opener that lower tier beginner rogues use. The most effective and optimal opener actually is blood fury if your orc like you should be BSx2 Thistle tea BS into 3 point SnD Blade Flurry feint (onlyif threat is to high after all the opening backstabs)Adrenaline rush BS x5, 5 point Evis (you can also vanish ambush here instead of BS if your threat is high after bursting) BS SnD
if you would like to see if im just blowing smoke out of my ass you can check my parses my rogue is whitmer on kirtonos check the logs
Why would you want to wait 4 globals before getting slice and dice up? Why would you want to blood fury so far away from your adrenaline rush and blade flurry?
Also ambush does less damage than backstab in PVE spec.
Also NEVER open with ambush. Backstab is far mor optimal because of the the 30% higher crit chance not to mention the reduced movement speed really hurts your uptime.
don't know if it's something you do normally or what, but you call your combo-point builders spenders through this video :D
I thought I screwed that up only once. Oh well
@@Zatar either way :D it was still a great video and I believe it can teach a lot of new Rogues how to play.
This guys doing top dps 0% of the time. On ony you want to save your vanish for the start of p3 so you can avoid the fear and be free to dps while the tank picks up ony.
damn i would search another guild with less rogues.
Lasseok LOL
Overall I got feeling most dps dont give a shit about their threat. And once they have aggro blaim the tank since they are to dumb to understand. Makes tanking really frustrating sometimes.
@gardakan936 I bet you never tanked. Or never been in a public party with unorganized idiots
Have you tried Seal Fate? Currently running SF with Claw of the Black Drake and still hoping on a good OH(corehound perhaps) as atm I still have Trash Blade. The spec is kinda awesome; check it out and pm me perhaps pls? Cheers, mate!
Lovely info, but for the love of god, please download Z-Perl raid frames. It's so clunky and embarrassing, and pls dl bagon too.
Shaman isn't giving you windfury LOL
I cant take someone serious who plays an orc rogue.
i didnt find any video how to work with my SS and swing , still am looking after or before swing finish, if you can provide any ez video for improving my damage at Raid because is really bad ( Swords)
get an energy ticker man, rogues dont need a weapon swing timer
Maja Think wrong. It’s very important with weapon swing timer for combat swords rogue. You should always sinister strike after you just did an auto swing. Because if you proc sword specialization from the sinister strike it will reset your auto attack swing timer. So if you have let’s say a 80% completed auto attack, you will waste that auto. It can be as much as a 10% dps loss on longer fights if you don’t sinister at the right time.
@@glenamo ridiculous comment, sinister strike has a 27% chance to weave in an extra auto if timed correctly. couple that with sword spec (more chance to double hit) and also a strong leveling sword like thrash blade (that also has a double hit proc) and the difference is life or death.. if you dont know dont mislead someone.
@ilawjunior You basically want to SS as soon as you swing with your mh. If you are horde you also want to consider pooling energy for when you get WF proc ( get WA for that or some addon). If you really want to try hard like a crazy person you could also include your offhand swing into your decision making (ideally you want offhand be almost done while mh just finished) but that is probably too demanding to do unless you are in some super static fight and some custom swing timer addon to pull it off because it is asynchronous process.
#oneCREW =) ngotie is the best =)
bit funny how you say it's really important when you use cds, just a few seconds after you've used your cds before Ony transitioning into flight phase :P
The best time to use your CDs is when she is transitioning because it reduces the amount of time she's in the air. That is what I did in the clip.
Maybe you're referring to vanish? I generally try to save my vanish for phase 3 when she is landing.
Just get salvation KEKW
i open the video, i dont see any swingbar addon, i close the video.
I do mention swingbar addons in the video. Would you use one even as dagger spec?
@@Zatar If you're horde or have HoJ you should still weave even with daggers. Otherwise no you don't need to.
@gardakan936How do you "get a sense of the timing" when the timing changes at random intervals? HoJ, WF, and Sword Spec procs all reset the swing timer and it's easy to miss if you're stacked on other players, or 2 or 3 of these proc back to back - which is really pretty common
you sound like jim halpert
Helps if you keep your poisons up, too. @7:20
On horde side, if you have a shaman in your group you do not put poison on your main hand so that you can get windfury weapon.
@@Zatar Interesting. I play alliance. Why did the time expire? I really am not sure how the windfury mechanic works for rogues. I did know that it's priority for MH, but not seen it in action. Thanks for the reply!
@@jackoverholser7792 You simply only put poison on your off hand, so that your Main hand is free to recieve windfury when it procs (which can't happen when main hand is coated with poison)
13:58 go figure
Mongrels Incendious?/
Yes
Smash buttons.
Imagine using feint in 2019.
You must be a retail player.
Imagine not understanding how threat works
@@GrizzlyStoned enlighten me.
@@MrBlvck-iv6dg You must've never seen a raid log of a competent rogue
Well since you are not explaining how u think it works, you are just a trashtalker.
pls don't open with ambush like him
It's risky if you open with it right away and not give tanks a few seconds beforehand.
Just vanish 4Head
@gardakan936 it's not about aggro, ambush have less crit chance than bs
wtf 75K 0:33 ??
I assume you're joking but in case not that's 2 different instances of damage, one for 75 (GGR proc) and one for 468 (non-crit BS)
@@Capnsensible80 ooooh lol wow , it just looks like one big number 75 468
Hello, can you give you spec ? Thanx
www.classicwowbuilds.com/build/view/65f42fa3-b334-47b9-a479-7e98cfd03e38/zatars-current-build/5
You're really in-love with yourself, dude.
feint is the most useless abillity. pls if u pull aggro without using feint u simply cant dps right
I never press faint anymore, but it was really helpful when my guild's tank's were gearing up.
Uhm.. uhm.. Uhm... Uhm..
По-русски пожалуйста)
You gotta get better with your posions homie. All your boss fight clips your posions run out right as the boss is pulled. Feelsweirdman.
On horde side you do not want to put poison on your main hand. You instead want windfury weapon.
Also nowadays I use the poisoner add-on which reminds me if I need to refresh my poisons.
@@Zatar Good call, i play alliance we dont know what windfury is. Great vid none the less.
Don't even learn feint, it's a waste of gold and energy.
step 1: don't play daggers
Herp McDerp I parse high 90s in Mc and bwl as daggers daggers is still good
Step 1, take off shitcraft
Found the noob
All your "ums" mid explanation, and the lack of a mic screen, make listening to your slobbering talk almost unbearable