Game of Thrones: How Bad Writing Used The Dragons Against Us
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Come check out what writing made the dragons so good...and then how the writing butchered them.
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My personal biggest problem with the dragons is the fact that Drogon is the only one that matters. He is the bad boy that the writers love and his brothers have zero distinctions between the two.
I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAD NOTICED THIS. THANK YOU!!!
The eternal crush on the bad boys
exactly. The dragons were more of a Deus ex Machina in the plot than characters
True, they have so much personality in the books that was kinda of disappointing seeing them acting like mere beasts during season 7&8. Specifically viserion since he is my favorite.
Fuck drogon
What's absolutely incredible is that every time I watch one of these video essays about the last few seasons of Game of Thrones, they each have something new to say. How can so many things have gone so wrong?
have of it just complaining and omitting other parts of the story
@@sandrameesala6804 you’re completely right
I swear!!! There's always something new, and I knew they screwed up but God they screwed up SO BAD
Because the writers didn’t want to write it. HBO should have replaced D&D when their contracts were done, not make them continue…
@@ashstolley the problem is D&D were given Total control
When they said this is when the show ends, grmm and hbo couldnt stop them from ending it earlier than the planned 12 seasons
It ws in their contracts
They rushed it to go work on a star wars project that was taken away from them the moment game of thrones ended, because it showed their true quality of work
Also also, Drogon had more of a reaction to his mother’s death than Daenerys had to the death of her children (Raegal and Viscerion)
fr like daenerys should’ve been crying but instead her reaction was just sitting there like what??
They used her children’s death as a half assed excuse why she went “crazy”
@@Icy_815 -- Psychotic breaks are a real thing that happens to people sometimes. Even in the real world, people lose contract with external reality and start living like they think everything that's happening around them is a dream. And in a dream you can do anything because nothing is real.
From the first minute we see her brother show her off to Drogo, Daenerys never has an emotional reaction to anything except physical pain and her fear of abandonment.
Bro this is underated comment!!!!
@@Grizabeebles she cried for Khal Drogo. She cried when she had to lock up her dragons.
Even worse, we've seen Danny after the death of a child and a husband, and she is definately not the type of person who pretends everything is ok while they're grieving.
Not to mention her reaction to merely locking up Rhaegal and Viserion, so people can't say she only cared about Drogon.
Of all the flubs, this one is not that big to me. She has lost a lot, possibly she is numbed to it. When someone looses their first child, that is horrible, but if it happens again they might react like this, just numb. It's a defense mechanism.
I agree with a lot of the other complaints and I definitely think the latter seasons of the show sucked for many reasons, but this one thing is not that big of a deal.
People change, grief changes people. Some people change by becoming numb to it, it doesn't mean it doesn't effect them they just don't show it overtly anymore.
@@no_nameyouknow Was going to say the same thing...that's her entire character arc...she put her loved ones on the line in her quest for the throne and lost people she cared about along the way (essentially unintentionally sacrificed) and learnt to make difficult decisions. She grew, but, in the end she didn't have the maturity to handle being a leader despite her best efforts. She then snapped, which is fine, but we needed more time watching her reaction to losing, seeing how she handled desperation etc.
@@no_nameyouknow Yeah, initially it's fine for her to be numb. But she never showed ANY reaction to the loss, overt or otherwise. No coping mechanism, no increased protectiveness of the siblings, no lashing out or breaking down, just nothing. It's like she forgot it ever happened.
@@rileynicholson2322 IMO her descent into madness afterwards *was* her reaction to losing her children. After Viserion died she put a brave face on it and sort of held it together. When Rhaegal died as well she lost it entirely. I suspect this was the intent but unfortunately Series 7 and 8 weren't spectacularly well written so it didn't come across at all clearly.
The dragon sees a knife in it's mother, sees the nearby collection of knives and burns it to destroy the threat - That is now my favorite theory
... out of the three, he obviously wasn't the intelligent one.
"KILL THE POINTY THING"
It would be even better if it led to him waging a one-dragon war against swords and knives. Not their wielders, but the weapons specifically.
This is my favorite media theory since "Signs" being not an alien invasion, but instead an alien frat dare. How else do you explain them "invading" a water planet butt naked and unarmed when water burns them? That'd be like us going to an acid planet naked and slapping the locals. No way they could get here but be that dumb! It's clearly something they do for clout, like predator. Only instead of hunting humans, they just run around butt naked amongst them for as long as possible! Like there version of naked and afraid, but with angry killer acid apes!
KNNNIIIIIIIIVVVVVESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tyrion's whole "don't use the dragons" thing would've made a bit more sense if he had mentioned the possibilty that Cersei might have the city packed with Wildfire so Dany couldn't really do the sort of precision strikes she had in the past.
That could've been a good way for them to more naturally turn Dany into the bad guy. Her good intentions are wiped away by green fire consuming all of KL leaving her irredeemable in the eyes of the peasantry and turning Cersei into a martyr. Dany crumbles under the pressure of this role she's forced into and embraces her role as a tyrant until Jon is forced to put her down.
@@BottlesOfSoap they should've hired you to write that season tbh
@@BottlesOfSoap This might have worked, but I think Cersei used all the wildfire to blow up the Sept. Granted, Dany and her crew didn't know that.
@@benhadaway3322 you could argue that Tyrion may not know that. Or that qyburn spread misinformation that he had more.
@@benhadaway3322 There were wildfire explosions (green) during Drogon's massacre of the city.
It's hard to justify holding back three dragons from conquering Westros when that is exactly what Daenerys's ancestors did to found a dynasty. Half the time it only took the *threat* of incineration to bring surrender. Dany could have parked her dragons outside Kingslanding and driven the city to revolt against Cercei pretty easily, fearing fiery destruction.
But, you know, ignoring stuff like that became a bit of a theme later in the show.
They "kinda forgot" about it, I guess.
Yeah, Aegon used his dragons against a city only twice. Against Harrenhal he used Balerion, and we know what that did.
Against Sunspear he used the dragon of his sister, both died because of a shot of ballista, Dorne remained unconquered until a Targaryen took a Martell for wife ^^
Krankar Volund Actually a Martell took a Targaryen Princess - Daenerys, daughter of Aegon IV- as wife
King's Landing should've revolted when Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor and most of the Tyrells, but everyone in the city just seemed to shrug. The Reach controlled their food supply and comprised more than half of their military; still nothing. Dorne joined the Reach; nothing again. Dany shows up with half the Iron Fleet, the Unsullied, a khalasar, and three dragons, with the support of the Reach and Dorne and eventually the North and the Vale, with the riverlands burned and no food supply... and not only no revolt, but Cersei is still presented as a significant threat.
@@jadeprincepk Ooops, I do not know Targaryen geneaology on my fingers XD
They literally could have gone with the easiest, laziest, most phoned in, run of the mill 'Jon and Daenerys get together and rule through peace together', and it STILL would have been better than S7 & 8.
Yea honestly they didn't even need to write a story. They could have easily just compiled a list of the best fan fiction and theories and mixed a bit of spice in. It's almost like they destroyed the show on purpose. So disappointing. I could have written a better ending.
honestly, you are right! they could have chosen a happy ending - and it would be kinda boring, but still better. or they could have simply killed everybody, it would be fun. people didn't cooperate and now everyone is dead, ha, didn't expect that? if d&d were not interested in finishing the show properly - why didn't they just choose one of these simplest ideas?
i know it going to suck since first ep... it don't matter since when show had that long a filer... clearly it won't end well and is it surpising it not going to end well.. the show basically there are all this people... and whoever left is the winner... the dragon kind of there and then for good cgi for few min...
They just wanted to rush it. They left out like more then half the story from book 3 4 5. They could've easily followed the books and the show could go on to 11 12 seasons until it runs out of materials. Fuck them bitches. George R R Martin himself wrote all this amazing novel, thousands of pages, they started this show and doesn't have the courage and patience to complete
Little Puppy It’s clear the the writers wanted out cause they got that Disney money to do Star Wars. HBO is happy to have 10 seasons. The writers wanted to end at season 7. They negotiated and split up to make season 7 and 8 both cut short to 7 eps each. Season 8 is honestly just the writers rage quitted on what they have built for 8 years. Fucking sad that they would rather shit on it than letting someone else finished.
"The show has a character X do Y, and then nothing happens" is a pretty good summary for the whole show from seasons 5 - 8.
Was season five really that bad? I'll have to go back and rewatch it lol was that the one with the god aweful Dorne plot?
@@EL-ISS yes
Season 5 was kinda boring, season 6 was surprisingly amazing, season 7 was........not good, and season 8 doesn't exist
@@rahulmenon9530, I like your opinion. But I’ll still defend Season 5 for feeling like a mostly natural progression of the story regardless. 7 and 8 though... NO! NO GOD PLEASE NO! NO!
NO!
NO!
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
@Стефан Радев And in real life people spend most of their time sleeping, eating, and pooping. But no one would be interested in a story that had that level of “ReALiSm”. Because it’s stupid and uninteresting and not important to the story!!!!!
Well you know, Dany just sorta forgot she loved the dragons like her own children. You know, like the screen writers sorta forgot that they were screen writers.
Maybe they tried to start writing a series they've been adapting
@@Ibebrappin She went crazy much later and due to other factors.
When did she show that they were like her own children? I know she called herself mother of dragons, but from what I have seen, she had no problem with putting them in harm's way by using them as weapons in war, or to save Jon from an army that, quite possibly, had the strength to kill them.
@@ReallyUnexplainable She did say she saw them as her children. Have you watch the show?
@@moona3206 -- I don't understand why everybody just takes Daenerys at her word just because she SAYS she sees the dragons like her children.
You'd think people who pretend Seasons 7 and 8 don't exist would know that people LIE TO THEMSELVES all the time.
I hated how they turned wise Tyrion into an idiot.
Dany before coming to westeros: "I may need to strategically marry to get my home back"
after getting there: "I am threatened by Jon! the throne is mine!"
In case you havent noticed: Dany changed over these 8 seasons. She didnt need marriages anymore, she had an army and dragons.
@@abraham2172 Then she had no reason to leave Daario Naharis back in Mereen. He said the same thing you said pretty much lol.
@@abraham2172 an army and dragons wouldn't have won her the hearts of the popul. The strategic marriage wouldve been with a respected westerosy noble to show the common folk that she didn't come to lay waste on them.
@@tohuiii exactly and it was set up that she knew she had to get married to show the people that she was behind them its what she did in mereen when she married Hizdahr and its why she left Daario which is why it made no damn sense for her to not think of marrying Jon
@@abraham2172 Eeexept that
1. She couldn't have children and the rest of her family is extinct. A marriage would have been the only realistic way to establish some form of succession.
And once she knew that Jon was a Targaryen as well, she should have JUMPED at the opportunity.
2. She herself realised that she didn't truly win over the northerners, and no army or dragons could do so. Her smartest move ought to have been to marry Jon and have him be her co-ruler and equal. Nearly all her problems would have been solved that way.
But the show barely entertains the idea, or give any reason for why Dany rejects it.
Funny how GOT Season 8 has become a failure case study in film schools.
Tyllis How many film school graduates will fail in "Hollywood". Most of them. The industry favors nepotism (familial, friendships, favors owed or expected) over training, looks, talent or any other qualifications for inclusion.
@@tessdurberville711
Don't forget the leftie bias and virtue signaling capabilities
@@bigboydancannon4325 oh boy god forbid when a black stormtrooper gets put in a movie. Or an entire movie with a female cast/heroine or woman with too many muscles. Damn SJW Propaganda films are a national security threat.
end of season 6, and the whole season 7 was already less intelligent in their dialogue. the plot was okay. then came season 8 with bad writing that come with worse dialogue, worse plot and contradicting a lot with the past 7 season
@@activistarts7722 You act like those aren't clearly meant to shock and pander. Come on, bro. There are plenty of women and minorities that are fantastic characters and actors, but it's blatantly obvious which ones are there because it's a political move.
I really wish they had focused as much on the direwolves as they did on the dragons, the whole warg storyline would have been so cool to see !
Actually kinda glad they deserted the Direwolves mythos rather than ruining it too
@@holysecret2 The difference is all of the direwolves were dead except for Ghost when the show started to suck
@@ImThe5thKing Nymeria minded her own business and lived.
Surprisingly the wolves costed more then the dragons to create, it’s much more expensive to create fur on animals then scales
@@ImThe5thKing ghost summer and nymeria were all alive for a good amount of time. Deff suggest reading the books for the warg storyline. All the stark children are wargs to their wolves 😁
honestly, each dragon’s death felt so unceremonious. it was just, oop, there goes a dragon, yup, it’s gone now haha ain’t that crazy?? we built that up for seven seasons, just gonna have em shot down and move on! isn’t that a ***S U B V E R S I O N ? ? ?***
Don't read a book about Targaryen war.
It absolutely is a subversion of expectations. No one expected the writing of the show to be THAT BAD.
I mean they did the exact same thing with the dire wolves, so honestly you all should've seen it coming. I did.
@@Verebazs the dire wolves weren't really a big deal in the show, though. They were much more important in the books but the show never really built them up like the books did. So it's not the same thing. At all
@@alecbona4549 Yeah, yeah, keep making excuses for why this post-modern garbage-from-the-start series, wasn't actually post-modern garbage from the start. And BTW the books are also post-modern garbage. Well the first one is. I could barely finish it, so never bothered with the rest, but I admit maybe I was wrong to give up on it so soon, but then again, at least I won't be left hanging when Martin inevitably kicks it, before he finishes even the sixth part, let alone starting the seventh.
I also didn’t like how the color design was so bland in the later seasons -you could hardly tell them apart!
for the night is dark and full of boredom
i agree with that actually. as babies they were fairly brightly colored. i understood their later season designs as older versions of the baby designs, but there's a lot of ways to take a brightly colored baby design and age it without all of them becoming, like, mostly brown.
@@MorganChaos This is a late reply, but also in the earlier seasons (around 4-6) the dragons has distinct horn variations. I think Viserion had downwards facing horns, Rheagal had curvy horns and Drogon had the largest, most straight horns. You saw them around the time Tyrion went into the pyramid dungeons. Then they scrapped that idea and made them identical.
It drove me nuts listening to the characters trying to explain why attacking kingslanding would be too disastrous with the dragons when the Red Keep is literally sticking out onto the water and easily attacked on its own from the sky.
I know. I mean, she could've done the "attack from the sun" thing she did the magically destroy all the ships.
She probably wouldn't have even needed to assault King's Landing. The people hated Cercei and certainly wouldn't want to die for her so if Danny turned up at the gates with an overwhelmingly powerful army and three fire breathing monsters and demanded the city surrender the people would have risen up against Cercei in an instant.
the problem is that sieges are not as interesting as a full assault, even though most of the time its the most logical decision. even the book don't do sieges very often as far as I can remember.
@@danilooliveira6580 Dany was stuck in siege for an entire book (third I think?)
@@Carewolf if I'm not mistaken it was also in a Siege that Robb mets Jeyne, or after a battle, I don't remember. the book also mention some sieges, like the siege of Riverrun that Robb breaks. but it doesn't happen very often.
My favorite meme from the show is probably one where Drogon has a long speech about how "I understand that society is the true enemy, and I see how my mother was actually killed by her need for power" and something like that. Just made me die from laughter when I saw it.
I can't believe thay cancelled game of thrones after season 6. It had a lot of potential but i guess some things just don't last
I don’t know what you’re talking about, they canceled the show after season 4.
What, did they add two extra seasons on netflix or something?
@@camycamera Wait what.... season 4 alrdy out?
@@nightsage217 wait they released a series about this book?
@@camycamera the show death with tywin lannister
D&D had major problems with overpowering and underpowering the magical elements as and when it suited them. Arya's face-shifting is another example of this. She's able to infiltrate House Frey and kill the ENTIRE household without issue, yet they don't consider just...sending her to assassinate Cersei, alone and disguised? This is why you need strict and tangible limits on what your magic system can do.
it has less to do with that and more to do with the fact that in the books its Cat Stark returned from the dead that probably kills all the freys. They didn't have her return in the tv series
Not to mention, didn't her and the hound attempt to do just that, wasn't she in the city to kill the cersei. she was in the north to find her family they all died, then the walkers showed up, when was there time to just go walking down to king's landing. Also just killing cersei wouldn't solve the succession. Danny in the books and the tv series has like 0 claim to the throne lol
@@kylekastilahn Even if Cat is the one to do it in the books, there was no good reason for them to shift that action to Arya. The death of the Freys has no impact on the storyline from that point forwards, so they didn't need to include it. It's just violence and killing with no narrative weight, which became more and more common in later seasons.
@@kylekastilahn There was plenty of time to send Arya on an assassination mission. After they defeated the white walkers (which had no good narrative reason to be Arya's kill) they had all the time in the world (which is also why it was stupid to stop the white walker threat so soon; they were the dramatic tension driving the season and the series). So sending Arya down there would have been a great plan. Not only did she already have personal motives, but it perfectly lined up with what Dany wanted anyway. Dany's plan was basically get Cersei to surrender or kill her. And she only wanted that surrender because Tyrion stupidly believed his sister would (which breaks either of their characters any way you flip it). In any case, killing Cersei also would have been a great way for Arya to try to backstab Dany and get Jon on the throne. Kill Cersei (who has no successor), throw the leadership in disarray, and Dany can swoop in demanding surrender while they've got their pants down. When fighting ensues, Arya can plot an assassination against Dany during the chaos. Things won't go according to plan, Dany torches King's Landing, and Jon will have to kill Dany as Martin most definitely intended. It's not the smartest writing but it's a hell of a lot smarter than what we got based on the state of the story after they defeated the white walkers.
Blame Martin. Books pretty much do the same thing.
Personally, I think drogon was a psychic.
He had a vision that the future king was in a wheelchair and he wanted to make the castle handicapped accessible..... so he melted the throne into a ramp.🤷♀️😆
Lmfaaaoooo this makes more sense than the actual garbage we got
@@FreedomForOrcas yeah, it’s a little known fact that dragons are real sticklers about ADA building regulations…😆💖
Best shit i heard this week.
Make sense. We know they're connected to the rider.
@@d3l3tes00n now, thats funny
"Dragons are intelligent, but feral. Mystical, but like pets."
So they're pokemon
Daenerys was a Dragon type gym leader all along
Drogon I choose you!
Accurate
Shouldn't they be weak to the White Walkers then?
@@truegamer_007 Umm, Viserion?
There’s an alternate universe out there where GoT ended properly
It's probably a universe in which GRRM actually finished the books first.
I need Rick to get me there...
It's called the book series
@@TheBeelzboss don't jinx it!
How many possibilities involved the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy being good and Endgame being completely flawless?
“It’s similar to caring about Zuko, because you care about Iroh”. Oh... because Iroh’s also a dragon?
I see what you did there, and I'm _so_ mad I didn't think of it first.
"The show turns these complex, nuanced creatures into literal caricatures of themselves."
That applies to most of the cast. Points for consistency?
Tyrian, supposedly smartest man in Vesteros, turned into a run-off-the-mill militia guy with no sense of strategy or military cunning.
Daenerys goes from a benevolent freedom fighter and mother, into a psychotic killer with no regard for anyone.
Jon's balls disappear.
All Stark girls turn into bitches.
Jaime does a full 180 and goes back to Cersei after all the times where he turned her down and changed his ways for good, completely ruining his own character arc.
Dragons are now either dead, or just means of war on a comparable level to regular siege weapons. Political influence, let alone their bond with Daenerys, is thrown under the rug.
Night King can kill a dragon by being an olympic Javelin thrower, yet dies to a girl running up to him and stabbing him with a dagger - when only two enemies are even close to him - one of which he has subdued already.
Winter disappeared faster than actual winter would in a regular season.
Cersei is willing to risk her life, her city, and all the innocents - when facing an army with a dragon. She looks with cold eyes and no regard for anything. Yet, when she realizes she can not win, she suddenly cries and fears for her destiny, as if she had been mortally afraid of it all this time.
Man, every single important character is completely rewritten for season 7 and 8 - and the ones that aren't rewritten are dead or sidelined.
Was about to comment this lol
@@Real_MisterSir I'm trying to think of characters that weren't done dirty in the last seasons.
So far I can only think of Davos and maybe Melisandre.
The "funniest" shit was the Hound giving Arya a talk about how revenge is pointless, right before he goes off to die in a fire fighting his brother who's already kind of dead.
@@bdrago5420 I think theon was great
@@bdrago5420 The funniest shit is that he gave her that speech after she killed Lord Frey's sons and baked them into pies and served them to him before gutting him. Is like, Sandor, I think she's already crossed to the other side.
**Beloved dragon is sniped**
"There comes a time in all forms of media consumption where you are so utterly bewildered by an event taking place; that there are so many things wrong with it, that you don't have words and you simply laugh."
I understood that reference
Corrupt Angel what’s the reference
@@siddharthmehta6397 mauler
this was me throughout season 8
that's from the great MauLer
The show failed because they established all these wonderful in universe rules and stakes, and then ignored all of them in order to rush to the ending they wanted
26:27... That clip of Dany saying "a bit longer" was not even concerning one of her dragons it was concerning Jon, a person she knew for a few days. And when I saw that I was shouting at my laptop in disbelief: "Her DRAGON just died! HER CHILD! And she asks people to delay retreat for JON?! REALLY?"
Well, to be fair, Dany did have reasons to wait for Jon. Since Jon _didn't even bother to tell Sansa that he was going on a suicide mission_ , hardly anyone in the North knew where he was. So, if he had died, the assumption would probably have been that Dany had imprisoned or executed him. Dany could conceivably have had to face the prospect of a war with the North if Jon didn't return.
So, she did have political reasons to wait for Jon. I don't think that's what the show wanted us to think, though.
actually she and Jon had been together for close to near 6 months to almost a full year
the show just did a really piss poor job of getting that across.
@@michaelkean5969 Half a year? O.o Wait what? It felt like just a few days.
@@elrilmoonweaver4723 yeah but the last couple of seasons have some huge timeskips that they dont really mention that well. they are there but yeah :/
@@elrilmoonweaver4723 yeah basically there was nearly 2 month time skip between Dany and Jon's first ever scene and their second scene together. hence why they were more trusting with each other in such a small amount of time apparently there was going to be a filmed dinner scene between the two of them on dragon-stone but it was cut because D and D being lazy.
i was hooked in with the direwolves. i feel like we direwolf lovers got it worse.. that last bit of commentry, right in the feels.
Amen! building up a set of warg-kids, a deep connection of each stark to their direwolf and a giant wolf pack wandering westeros and nothing to come out of it was so disappointing.
Yea they really missed out on an opportunity there. It's clear that they were more interested in selling merchandise which is why they delayed showing dany for who she truly was for so long cause she sells a lot of merch cause of the one liners they keep giving her and "cool" dragon merch but everyone loves puppies which the direwolves basically are, large puppies and they're very important to the starks but we know that d&d don't care about the starks as anything but an afterthought so.
You'll never read it.
@ThisIsMyRealName fingers crossed we get the chance to read it at all 😩😅
@ThisIsMyRealName Can't wait for it to end on a cliffhanger that gets resolved in 2030 or never.
She cried more locking them up in the pyramids than she did when they died.
They kill Rheagal in the dumbest and most ubserd way possible. Followed by Dany and Jon barely having any reaction to his death. Oh no! Anyway
For the love of god, why didn't they just have Dany die *on* the throne, or Jon place her there afterwards? A grieving Drogon cremating his mother would still be a moment of "huh, that's a weirdly human reaction" while also being believable, but the melting down of the throne itself would become merely a highly symbolic side-effect.
Plus, when Targaryens die their remains are cremated by their dragons.
dany should've just NOT destroyed kings landing then jon and dany shoulda got married, ruled as king and queen. this keeps the north happy and in the seven kingdoms, keeps dorn and the iron islands happy, and everyone has a happy ending.
I think about how I wish Jon were standing in front of the throne, and then Drogon was attempting to burn Jon in anger for killing his mother. Jon ends up surviving because he has Targaeryan blood and fire no hurty (or kill him too, do we really care at this point?), but then the throne would melt behind him. I feel like that could’ve been cool symbolism without giving Drogon this weird hyper-intelligence.
@@rachelmarlett2771 ohhhh I like it. I choose THIS
@@rachelmarlett2771 although on second thoughts Jon burned his hand horribly in the books, idk just thought that might be relevant
The last two seasons proved that D&D weren't the mastermind writers but it was always George Martin. I'm sure HBO is pissed that literally ruined the rewatchability of this show. It easily could've been as memorable as lotr but now no one recommends watching it anymore
but there were elements in the first seasons that didn't stem from George Martin that were good too. Sure, the most brilliant parts come from George Martins books, but I just wondered - how could D&D mess up so badly? Are they really just talentless? Was it something other than that? Did they stop caring? Why???
he take 10 years to made one books....
@@BlackCampariBlue People were assisting them with the writing in the earlier seasons, such as Brian Cogman (Some of the best episodes of season 7 and 8 were written by Cogman, if I'm not mistaken). The last two episodes D and D did ALLLLL on their own.
@@campkira Yeah he takes a long time but when you read them you get a sense of the complexity of all the elements he spins together. He has so many balls in the air figuratively speaking that keeping up as im reading them isn't always easy. Let alone writing them. So his time delay between each is generally understandable
I've reached it twice during Covid19 shutdown times. Never made it through season 6.
I remember when it was controversial to claim the game of thrones writing went downhill.
I was insufferable for the last few years of got as my friends ate it up until everyone came to my side during the final season. VINDICATION
@@BottlesOfSoap they hated Jesus, for he told the truth
Uncomfortable truths and all that.
Eventhough season 5, 6 did have a decline in the writing. It was still very good (for me) compared to other shows/stories. So I wouldn't have been happy if people were calling it trash. Season 7 required alot more "turn brain off" moments but was still enjoyable.
Lol me too! I remember my friends and I all had a few watch parties for season 5 and they all were so pissy with me when I said it was getting shitty and stopped coming over to watch it. But like I literally couldn't understand why my favorite show was sucking ass, and I didn't wanna watch anymore... Season 7 and 8 rolled around and I was finally vindicated
I really appreciate that you made this specifically about 8 AND 7. Too many people ignore the stupidity and horribleness that was season 7. Started losing me at the war plans. Lost me after spoils of war. While the loot train attack itself wasnt horrible, the cliffhanger. Jaime should have drowned under all that armor. It was a traditional tv cliffhanger fake out death which is below the show on so many levels. And everything after it was utter trash. But a lot of people say "it was going fine till this season. No you were holding hope it would be fine because while 5 was not well like, 6 was loved. But the signs were there and the problems came to a head in 7, not 8. So thank you for taking that into consideration!
Yep I remember being so excited for season 7, then progressively getting more and more disappointed as it went on. I'm just really sad that was the ending we got, we deserved better than that, the show deserved better than that because of how good it was early on
@@wibblemu9 Same. I knew the show had problems all the way in s5. Them cutting out so much of Feast and Dance from the season made it so resoundingly stupid, yet s6 convinced me that there is hope since s6 was good, despite it having dumbass moments too (everything about Sansa and Jon was such bullshit in that season ugh). But then I read the s7 leaks and I knew the show had gone down the drain. I kept hoping like an idiot that they would fix things in s8, cause come on, it was the finale, but nope, they just made things everything worse.
I stopped watching during S4. It wasn't horrible yet but I was already disapointed by the attention to detail and barely watched S4. Saw a tiny bit of S5 and just figured what they did to Dorne was a sign of how they were going forward so I stopped watching. Glad I was proven right in the end. It's still such a shame as S1 was great and got me to read the books.
To be honest the show went to shit after all the hype and youtube reactions of the red weeding they only redeeming factor after that was Pedro Pascal
The first 15 mins of Season 7 Episode 1 was the end of a chapter in my life.
I didn’t realize a tv show could make me so unbelievably mad and annoyed
lol You probably shouldn't watch anything after Season 4 of Dexter then.
@@godspeedhero3671 Season 7 was good (it made no sense given the previous seasons but as a stand alone storyline it was good).
Lets not forget "Lost".
I didnt watch the show and im mad that the dragons were disgraced and bastardised
Season 7 was terrible, every bit of bad as season 8. Everyone feels cheated by the terrible writing that started in season 5 and peaked in seasons 7&8.
A year gone and my rage/confusion/disappointment/disbelief/sadness cocktail is still so very very fresh.
Girl I watched this show for the first time last week till the end and I AM PISSED OFF!! I can't believe these showrunners were so lazy and even moreao didn't pass the show on to be finished with additional seasons. I can only imagine how the people who followed this show for 10 years felt like.
Night King: Carefully predicted that trapping dudes in the north would bring him a dragon, so that he could kill a dragon, so he could raise the dragon, so that he could destroy the wall, so that he could finally conquer the world.
Also NK: "Oh shit where'd that girl come from? The moon?" *dies*
If i'm night king I just surround winterfell without attacking and let them die from hunger . I mean he did have that many zombies
Umm I dont think the night king knew that they had dragons
Also since he was written to be so tactical and that he only showed himself when he deemed absolutely necessary (raising the dead in hardhome, giving Bran and the one eyed raven a visit, sniping Viseryion) why did he bother going to kill Bran personally when his lackeys were perfectly capable of razing Winterfell on their own?
@@sprinkledonut8051 He does. The dragons and the walkers are two sides of the same coin. The night king would have senses their existence.
Ok even if he had how did he knew they were coming or why didn't he kill drogon which was much much closer or how did they did it out of the water since the walker cant swim
The "We can't attack King's Landing with dragons" is perhaps the greatest stupidity the show has ever written. It makes Arya killing the Night King look sane by comparison. If they at least had played into the "oh Tyrion just councels something so insane because he subconciously wants to protect his family", which they even had Dany mention but that never goes anywhere. It was just regular insanity by the supposedly smartest boi in the universe. Oh, Mr. Dinklage, your character didn't deserve this.
@CommandoDude season 7 should killed Cersei and Daenereys and Jon secure westeros and season 8 should have been nothing but an all out war against the dead from start to finish.
It becomes even more hilarious when you realize they had Varys, the guy who literally knows all the secret passages in the Red Keep by heart. Dany didn't even need to use the dragons, or send her fucking army. She literally could have went with the Ramsey method and used 20-good-men to infiltrate the Red Keep and seize Cersei while she slept and then mount a seige to force the Lannister soldiers to surrender. Like Tyrion even USES the passages to visit Jamie, and it never occurred to him or ANYONE else to do the same with Cersei??? Fuck off DnD. Fuck. Off.
they totally destroyed Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger since season 5. But Tyrion was made to look a complete fool in season 7.
@@TheaTheGenius But Ser Twenty of House Goodmen died in the Battle of the Bastards lol. No one else could have done something.
Let's not forger Jon Snow yelling at a dragon. That moment was superb in terms of stupid writing
It's been two years and I still get irrationally angry everytime I think about the show.
same i’ve never gotten over the ending of this show
I don't think it's irrational. I actually watched the whole show in 2020, but for those who spent years watching it invested their time, and honestly emotions, it is a huge disappointment and it's more than ok to get angry. Even me, I didn't spend years watching it, I spent a couple weeks and I get incredibly angry over how they screwed up, it's incredibly angering because I was expecting something much better since Got is such an important piece of pop culture...or was
Thats totally fine, as long if you dont pull off years-old, unfunny jokes about got.
Same lmao I got so passionately pissed off while watching this.
It's not irrational. I'm still pissed of.
Canonically, didn't ancient Dorne manage to shoot down one of Aegon the Conqueror's dragons and wives only by managing a hit *directly to the eye* of the dragon with a scorpion?
Yes but that was a one in a million shot
@@wisdommanari6701 - and it was conveniently forgotten by the D&D writers. In fact, Dragon scales were known to not be pierceable, hence why the only dragon killed with a scorpion was shot in its eye (I presume shot in the mouth would yield similar result, but also equally unlikely). But they had to wrap up season 7 and 8 quickly because they had more important stuff to do, so we are left with a pile of dogshit that I will never accept as canon. To me, GoT ended with an open ending in season 6. Anything after that point is just bad fanfiction. The only sense of justice that came out of season 7 and 8, was that they were subsequently fired from the Star Wars project that they quit GoT for. Fuckers.
Dany’s dragons are still young so it could have been that their scales had not hardened. It’s an issue but nothing notable after so much huge issues in last season.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 That's an even bigger issue then, because the writers go out of their way early on to explain how dragons can only be killed through soft spots like their eyes, and tell how the scales are impenetrable. IF its the case that young dragons' scales are not as hardened, then that element NEEDS to be explained, as it's a major counteract to what is previously established. One thing is what people can figure out on their own, its entirely another story to completely go back on their own established facts without any form of attempt at an explanation or reasoning prior to it. That's just incredibly amateurish writing level, and should not be fit for anything better than high school level writing.
I'm pretty sure that Quburn explained in the dungeons to cersi difficult but not impossible. You just gave one example of a dragon dying. I thought it was also implied if not stated he was enhancing the scorpions.
I can't throw shade at Emilia Clarke, her character was done so much injustice in "Those Seasons Which Cannot Be Named", and she'd done such a stand up job in everything prior to those. I can only say that what was filmed was less her reacting to the death of a child, and more them filming her actual reaction to being shown the script and trying to process it.
They wanted her to be stoic and emotionless.... They crippled her ability to ACT
@@wisdommanari6701 Apparently D&D think women in positions of power need to be completely emotionless, since they did the same with Sansa... and Arya... and Cersei...
@D-Ice's baby brother i think the same could be said for Kit Harrington they had Jon Snow be so stoic and brooding be his number one and only personality trait after season 5 whereas in the early seasons Jon had charm and was a bit of a snarky smartass and was a ruthless leader Jon should have ruled as king in the north with the same mindset he did as lord commander he even somewhat was a good player at the game of thrones unlike later in the show where he just out and out becomes Bruce Wayne levels of stuck up and naive. if anything it would have made so much more sense for Jon and Dany and for Him to win her Heart with a snarky and smart ass attitude. they should have had Jon out and out kill littlefinger to show his ruthless nature in the same way he did slynt.
As a book snob... all of Daenerys character arc since season 1 episode 1 was completely altered and different in the book. Book Daenerys doesn’t doesn’t act entitled and stresses how she’s tired of war which is why constantly prolongs going to Westeros. Daenerys in the books just wants the house with the red door and a family. The simple life is all she really wants.
Emilia acted her socks off throughout S8. She's not the best at subtle, but she can deliver big brilliantly when directed well. Her performance (and costuming) was THE ONLY thing in connection to Dany that I can praise.
Clicks on a random channel he's never watched before...
"I freaking love Dragons!"
I like this guy already :D
who the hell doesnt like drgons? xD
@@WallaceSouzaB They great
Remember when the scorpions weren’t supposed to work because it couldn’t penetrate scales? When the only dragon that was killed by the scorpion was because it was shot in its eye? Because I remember.... but D&D kinda forgot
were in the tv show do they say that scorpions couldn't penentrate scales? Quaburn enhances the scorpions and they literally shot down the strongest dragon like in season 6 or 7.
@@kylekastilahn its in the books. George RR Martin literally said himself that the only ever time a full grown dragon has been taken down out of flight is when someone got lucky and shot it in the eye. A full grown dragon's scales are just too strong for literally anything to penetrate them. Dragons in the books are literally the biggest ex machina, whereas in the show they can't make up their minds on whether Qyburn's Scorpions can fully take down and kill a dragon just like that, or if they just slightly penetrate the scales and do literally fuck all lol. D&D just can't make up their minds. Also *Qyburn
@@jameshanley9418and when the City of Mereen (I think, it's been some time) was besieged by the slave masters, tyrion commented on the Scorpions they build to bring down the Dragons. He thought something along the lines of: "These are not gonna do anything except make them Angry". Dragons are supposed to be akin to a natural dissaster in GOT, at least when having to face them in a fight.
@Blood tbf, it was magical ice that shatters swords and is so razor thin they disappear when looking at them head on, yet still strong enough to clash with Valyrian steel.
Maybe the dragons were not really “fully-grown”. Maybe they were not like child or teenager dragons. Maybe it takes many years for their scales to fully harden.
Leave it to Savage Books to do a video over a topic that has been utterly beaten to death, but to do so in a way that feels fresh and that covers aspects of said topic that have not yet been discussed in other videos.
Ya’ did it again.
Leave it to John Mann to post a comment that makes me smile. Ya' did it again.
You seem like a great guy, you watch Macabre storytelling and Savage books.
Kevin Zhang video essays are some of my favorite things! Savage Books’ just happen to be some of my favorites. 😁
@@savagebooks7482 Have you seen the "Game of Thrones Rewrite" series by youtuber Macabre Storytelling? It's really fascinating. And I would love to know your opinion on it if you have one.
Not enough people talk about how badly Cersei screwed herself over when she blew up the Sept of Baelor, and I very much appreciate you doing so. Dany could have and should have taken her out in the first episode of Season 7.
Becuase the writers didn’t give her much consequences for that. As if the people of Kingslanding all forgot their populist theocratic movment, desecration of the religious site and the murder of their "pope". It made little impact on the nobels too, just deletion with nothing resulting from such
Rhaegal should have died at Kings Landing. Dany and her army attacks King's Landing with Drogon and Rhaegal providing the air support, and during the fighting one of the scorpions hit Rhaegal and brings him down. Dany, distraught over seeing another of her children fall, flies over to him, and sees his last moments and the life go out of his eyes. Then, in a fury of tears and rage, she orders Drogon to burn the whole city down for what they did to her child.
Is it still stupid? Maybe. But at least it's SOMETHING. Some reason for Dany to snap and burn down an entire city. Save's Rhaegal from dying a stupid death over the ocean too.
Right, and they could make her take a stance like "I won't allow my last remaining child to die like that, from now on is full force in every encounter" or something like that.
But nope, she's bad because she hates slavery too much, apparently.
Considering D&D want to make a show about the US if the Confederates had won, uh...
I don't think it's dumb. She could have even paused her attack and have both dragons land when the bells rang. Then hes shot and its discovered it was a trap for Euron to strike a still dragon. The people cheer and it triggers her.
He shouden’t have died at all.
Dizzy see, that is brilliant. It still would have been rushed, but at least it would actually make sense.
Honestly they should have just let Dani be the good guy without the blue haired bastard Ageon. It just did not make sense for her to turn without him. She's already shown she wasn't crazy, she was insecure about her family, and the fact that the throne had been stolen from her. They couldn't force Jon to be two characters at once, nor should they have tried.
The worst thing is how they messed up the scaling of the dragons. We literally have a cutout from GRRM, called Fire and Blood, in which it's stated that Balerion, Meraxes and Vhagar were, at their size when aegon began his conquest, immune to any sort of projectile flung at them. The Dragons of old valyria were immune to scorpion bolts, Meraxes was only brought down when one hit her in the eye. Now to be fair, Balerion was really old, over a hundred years when Aegon's conquest started. Well, but Rhaegal is almost equally as large as him. Like, literally only a few metres short. Dragons never stop growing in ASOIAF-Lore, so he should have been at least resistent in a similar way. It's not like the scorpions were special scorpions, these things have existed a while. In Valyria they needed Ice Mages to take Dragons down (or other dragons, for that).
Now for their AGE it makes sense that Danys dragons are so vulnerable. They're what, 5? In Fire and Blood its described some Dragons could only be ridden starting at age 4. But in the show they are WAY too huge for their age. But that raises questions: Are they so huge, because they were Wildfangs? They were found near Ashai, where exactly? Buried in the Ground, laid by a mother and forgotten? Are they a special species? The red comet announced the return, are they so huge because theyre the first dragons returning to the world? Sadly we will probably never get answers.
yes but i thought in the books people were also searching for a different weapon, some kind of dragon horn that would control them.
But the Dragons born in old Valyria were stronger, bigger and more resistant than those born in Westeros
not to mention that the guy who hit Meraxes in the eye died soon after, because the damn creature fell from the sky, twisting and spitting fire in the fort where the guy was
ps:I'm sorry for the broken English
I mostly agree with what you say, but a slight correction: Balerion the Black Dread was not only already a century old when he conquered westeros, he was also known as the biggest dragon westeros has ever seen. His skull in the series is absolutely inaccurate, so for sure Drogon and his brothers were not his size. If you need a prove for that, at the very first, look at their age. Balerion is a whole century ahead of them, so no matter if Drogon and his brothers were from a higher valyrian family or wild dragons, they should not even be nearly the size of a Balerion. Secondly, you can take a look at his official artwork with Aegon I on his back, standing, looking like a fly. D&D just probably also forgot about that.
@@rafaelmarques3487 your English is fine. There's nothing wrong with what you said :)
I like the idea of Jon and Danny having a heated argument about the use of dragons or some shit and have them both command Rhaegal and have Rhaegal listen to/choose Jon over Danny. I think that would be an amazing way to show a realistic way for Danny to because jealous and uncertain and feel like she's losing her position.
That having been said, I think having her kill one of her children would piss off people even more.
Why not both?!
She killed Rhaegal to hobble Jon, only to turn around and have Drogon choose Jon over her - thus making the murder of her child completely pointless.
why would Jon use the dragons? like idk why people keep saying this because he would never use it. He never used animals for his battles. Using dragons would be so outside of his character. Like left field. So the possibility of he and dany "getting" into a fight wouldn't even make remotely sense
@@sandrameesala6804 Because he learned that he's a Targaryen and might want to embrace that side just a bit more? Plus, they were building up that Rhaegal was bonding to Jon.
@@teacoon6399 -- More importantly, Daenerys' greatest fear is being betrayed or abandonned.
Having one of her dragons leave her for another person would be far, far more destabilizing than watching them demonstrate their "love" by dying for her.
@@sandrameesala6804 "he never used animals for his battles"
Ghost: *AM I A JOKE TO YOU?*
Killing Rhaegal was easy, they just had to read the books. GRRM makes it clear the only vulnerable part of a dragon is the eye- you need either incredible luck, or to fill the air with bolts and play the odds. Euron should have massed every scorpian possible, then filled the air with bolts, hitting that one eyeball. The danger of the scorpians is preserved, but it's also believable Drogon can attack fast and hard and not get hit. The frustration and badass look of Cersei's defenders filling the air with bolts, but Drogon just tilts his head up, and they all ping off like they were twigs.
Yes but maybe men now have more powerful weapons
Not bolts. Those were arrows. If Drogon were to be hit by bolts, just like he was by bronn, he would be hurt or even die. Dragons are super hard to hit, or atleast should be *Looks at the fact Rheagal took 3 fucking bolts in succession from SHIP mounted ballistas from a mile away*, so the dornish used a bunch of hit and run tactics and just spammed arrows until they shot a dragon out of the sky with an extremely lucky shot to the eye. Scorpions were pretty much made by the dornish (atleast i think it was the dornish) to counter dragons after they tried fending off dragons with bows and arrows
@@emmanuelrondozai89 scorpion
How about Rhaegal got a horrible gash in his neck or chest from fighting Viserion, thus providing a weak spot which is a larger target that an eye? This was such an easy thing to fix.
@@emmanuelrondozai89 Which its funny cause in the show they act like the scorpion is some new and revolutionary thing, when Dorne used em against the Targaryens when they invaded hundreds of years ago, it would be like someone presenting a horse drawn carriage from 1600 as new cutting edge technology to someone living in 1900 as new technology as a comparison. Which from the time the ballista was invented in ancient Greece all the way up until the Medieval era it was basically never changed, which the one used on the show and books is based on the Roman scorpio which is just a smaller portable ballista that didn't need a whole crew of people to use but rather just 1 or 2. Which ballistas just stopped being used cause they were very complex and expensive to make
But if I don't have a big loud dragon for action scenes how will I pay attention to the show?
couldn't finish your comment after you started saying words that weren't "dragon"
Isaiah Sherrill lol
You don’t
But what if we had nearly completly silent dragon without action scenes?
MORE TYRION
As a father, that scene in hereditary "kill me, I just need to die" hits wicked hard
Toni Collette is astonishing in that scene
Why do I constantly remind myself about season 8? Because these videos are just too darn good to miss.
Why do you exclude season 7? It was honestly worse.
@@SporkyMcFly What are in your opinion the mistakes that make Season 7 more of an abomination than Season 8?
Genuinely curious, because S7 definitely wasn't without its flaws.
But in between D&D character-arc-defying love for *uNExPecTeD tWisTs* and "Danny kind of forgot about the Iron fleet", I can't think of any blunders that could top the garbage fire of disappointment that were those last episodes of Season 8.
@@LinkEX Well, the expidition north of the Wall to capture a zombie top get support by a queen who's army you yourself destroyed three episodes before and who doesn't even help you once you finish your quest, while in the process losing a dragon which is what enables the Night King to cross the Wall in the first place, is not much dumber than "bells make me want to make city go boom".
@@akrybion Okay haha, point taken, that expedition was not the most convincing idea.
But I genuinely can get behind the characters' reasoning of doing it. At least it was _consistent._
While the king of the north going on a suicide mission isn't exactly top tier thinking, they did not plan on throwing in a dragon into the deal to get a zombie.
Danny's lack of reaction to that dragon might have actually been what bothered me more than the expedition itself - it might indeed have been as much out of character than her starting a killing spree due to those bells.
But there's so much more wrong with both individual characters and whole groups that I'd still put S7's zombie expedition below S8.
Being paranoid about not getting the throne is one thing, but rushing into the city and burning all children and citizens to corpses is quite another. Then there's also Arya killing the Night King. Or (more of a nitpick, but still a contributor) Bronn becoming master of coin for a quick final laugh before the show ends, even after threatening Tyrion and Jaimie earlier.
@@akrybion I just realized this very video we're commenting on brings up the fact that Danny is almost unfazed after Viserion's death.
Kind of upset you didn’t use Catelyn’s reaction to Robb dying when talking about Daenerys reaction to the death of Rhaegal and Viserys.
Or Cersei screaming when Joffrey died.
"The plotting was phenomenal - *was* -"
Perfect.
I wouldn't want Jon to have a dragon. He spent seven seasons having nothing to do with it. I'd think it would be unearned for Reagal to suddently side with himm someone he only just met, instead of his mother and bothers. Like, in the books, it is shown that eggs were put in the cribs of Targaryen babies in order for the hatchlings to have a connection with the princes and princesses. And when a prince tried to ride his mother's dragon without permission, the dragon just yanked him out of the sky.
Agreed! I wish more people understood the connection to Dany and her dragons. Never has a Targaryen hatched 3 dragons at once, so there is no telling if anyone is able to ride them while Dany is still living.
I agree, Jon didn't earn or deserve it. IMO his only goal in life was to go north of the North and hook up with Wildlings for the rest of his days, so leave him to it and good riddance!
While I'm not totally against Jon forming some kind of bond with one of the dragons, I just always thought that concept was more fanfiction-y than anything. I just think if it happened, it needed to be built up over time. Not instant. It would have taken a season or two or three of establishing imo to ever have any concept of working narratively. I probably would have accepted Jon having a dragon with less build-up, if Jon's connection to the dragons actually meant something to the narrative. But nope. I never thought they'd put it in so thoughtlessly, since it just didn't make sense in the established story. But if I took a shot for all the incoherent things I thought the writers would never do in the final two seasons, I'd be dead from alcohol poisoning.
He's a warg though, seriously
@@alexandersommers9489 I was thinking this. I think that his resurrection in the books is going to go more in the classical fantasy way with a twist (getting into and outof ghost) and that will open his warg habilities to the point he starts warging into one of the dragons even before they arrive to westeros
No, no, no, you dont understand. They dont need the dragons because theres nothing more powerful in the world than a good story! And who has a better story than Bran the Broken?!
LITERALLY HALF THE PEOPLE YOU'RE PONTIFICATING AT HAVE BETTER STORIES THAN BRAN, TYRION. INCLUDING YOURSELF.
@@watershipdowneyjr Greyworm should have just slit his throat than, let his Unsullied kill everyone at the meeting and crown Hot Pie King because, who has a better story than Hot Pie the Swollen?
That line is so weird considering their "themes are for 8th-grade book reports" comment.
Knowing what they think, are we supposed to interprete that line as Tyrion just bullshitting his way out of prison? I could take that from season 1-4 Tyrion, but not as a resolution to the story.
I wonder if dumb and dumber know that by crowning Bran, he has to be a villain. Makes the things he told pretty screwed up now.
@@watershipdowneyjrHot pie had a better story
Miles saying "I wanted to like the ending, it was supposed to be good", is the same thing I kept telling myself as soon as I saw the golden company in episode one, and decided to continue watching despite it.
"Always remember, it’s simply not an adventure worth telling if there aren’t any dragons. "
The thumbnail you chose is one of my favourite shots in the series.
"The writes think that watching dragons burn battlefields and cities would not inspire loyalty"
Well, that worked for Aegon, the first Targaryen king. After burning three of the kings of Westeros, the King in the North bend the knee. Dragons do not inspire loyalty but they do inspire survival instincts XD
bending a knee isn't loyalty, it's bending a knee. Yes they were so loyal that the mad king had to burn several of them alive years later....and then another led a rebellion with his friend. then his son rob stark leads yet another rebellion. OMG i swear people never watched the show let alone read the book.
CGi... need something to do...
@@kylekastilahn Yeah, 300 years later XD
The North has been one of the regions that had the least problems with King's Landing, until Rhaegar kidnapped a daughter of the North, and that Aegon killed the lord in the North ^^
@@kylekastilahn The Starks were loyal for over three hundred years and every other house only started to complain after the dragons were gone. Every other conflict ended with the party with no getting incinerated. If Aerys and Rhaegar had dragons noone right in their minds would have supported Robert and Ned.
@D D Oh yeah, I swap the two XD
Honestly though... Jon yelling at ice Viserion was the funniest thing I’ve ever seen
Jon is Dragonborn
So in essence, in post-book seasons, the dragons IQ level varied between whether or not the writers wrote Dany into a corner
Actually that bit is justifiable, the dragons may have human intelligence, doesn't mean they are humans with scales and wings though, they still may place absolutely no value on your average human life.
I mean yes, but also no. The dragons volatility had already been well-established at that point. Part of the point of them was being unable to predict their actions, since we had no metric by which to do so. But they ought to have reinforced it in later seasons, since otherwise it would become very aparent that they are just narrative tools (which one could argue they weren't in the book-seasons). Consequently, that just lowered viewer immersion.
@@DaDunge It's still inconsistent within itself though. Even if the dragons don't value human life, they clearly valued Dany and how Dany felt. If Drogon was intelligent enough to choose to burn a symbol representing what killed Dany, he should have been intelligent enough to know burning a child would be horrific to Dany given she was literally obsessed with saving innocent lives at that point.
it comes down to george's laziness and the writer's stupidity
Imagine if viserion had died during the battle royal with the walkers, destabilizing danny and completely shifting the tension and stakes instead of during a stupid rescue mission.
I read the books up to A Feast for Crows before I watched the show, and I can recall the entire first book having tons of examples of characters ridiculing anything considered "fantasy" like dragons or the white walkers. So much so that I was convinced that either didn't exist (I didn't know much about the story before I began). That made their introduction that much better and it made me understand the shock of the character when they encountered them.
They do make it clear that the dragons were a very real thing in the world, there were people alive who had seen the last dragons, but by the time of "A Game of Thrones", they're all supposedly dead, which is why everyone scoffs at the mention of them.
Arya finds all those giant dragon skulls in the first book, so it was definitely pretty clear about dragons being a real thing in this world.
D&D kinda forget about Cersei being openly responsible for the King's Landing 9/11, having established herself as a dictator with a very tenuous claim to the throne, Daenerys actually being a good, well-loved leader, having a giant army, actually having feelings, and the dragons being intelligent.
she was never a good leader. she was a good commander or general if you will but failed terribly being a queen in Mereen.
@so nea Daenerys wasn’t a terrible Queen. Transforming slave society to functional one is just extremely difficult. USA still has issues due to their slavery.
@@sonea9444 she certainly made plenty of mistakes in Mereen, and I have a hard time seeing more than 5 minutes go by after she left it in the care of whats-his-name before it went right back to how it was, but she did a lot of good and effected a lot of change. She just rolled out the "Mission Accomplished" banner a little too quickly.
Daenerys should’ve stayed in Essos as Queen of Mereen. She might actually have done something sustainably useful for humanity at large.
You probably haven't read the books, Dany was not a good queen and Mereen's condition only worsen. That's why she was the perfect decoy protagonist who would turn evil by the end of the show. Bad pacing is the problem of got not the plot since if grrm written this it could actually turn out better.
The problems of season seven and eight can be summed up as, “Remember all the buildup and questions regarding plot element X? Turns out it was completely pointless because the writers never did anything with it.” Your call whether this “Never did anything” was born out of the incompetence born of forgetfulness or apathy.
Me, I lean towards apathy. The overwhelming feeling I got from season eight was that the creators were just bored with the project and wanted to move onto something else, but first, they had to wrap up the show. So they gave us an ending that is barely a step above “rocks fall; everyone dies.”
Apathy is a fair interpretation. I'm not ruling out deliberate malice.
Hilariously enough, that lack of care for wrapping up one of the biggest shows in modern times properly pretty much ruined the writers' careers and now no one really wants to work with them because of it.
@@kattriella1331 I'm SO glad they're not gonna be involved with Star Wars.
Not gonna lie, I started watching the show because of the dragons and I'm glad someone finally addressed how weird it was that Dany seemed to have no emotional connection to her "children" (despite her saying multiple times that they're the only children she'll ever have) after the writers ran out of source material.
“This might be the most stupid and insulting moment in the entire program”
Y’know, except for a bunch of other moments which are equally bad.
whO bEtTeR tO Be kInG tHan BrAn tHE BrOkEN?
arya's off to invent colonialism!
I remember, when Viserion was hit with the Spear, my first thought was "Oh No... which one was that again?"
hmmm... Harrenhall was attacked by Balerion himself from the top of the castle because their king was smug that their walls will withstand ANY attacks. IT DID. But they died because the stones became their big brick oven. Reason why they can still see some of the castle's ruins.
But in season 8, Drogon can melt stone like its paper. Maybe it is made of paper? They just kinda forgot mentioning it...🥱🤷🏻♀️
This is years late lol but there's a clear explanation to this. The dragon fire it supposed to get stronger as they age, it's mentioned in fire and blood clearly. It was said that the older dragons could melt stone.
@@rupnishadas9814 Thank you, this just reminds me how big of a geek I am with the series even years ago 🤭😅 But to answer you, I believe Balerion was way older than Drogon at the time of their Harrenhall attack. So he should've obliterated the castle walls then. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to start an online case study. I just really really hated the fan serving last seasons of the GoT show.
@@megumie0ka Oh no, you're right. It still does not make sense in universe. I was merely talking about the fire thing, I assume D&D went with it. Still horrible writing
Perhaps it was a different type of stone? Clay-made bricks vs carved stone perhaps? It's still not a good excuse but at least somewhat believable
Drogon's flame destroyed the walls instantly
Also drogon's flame: took a full burst to melt the throne halfway!
The Iron Throne is built like a heatsink radiator. Try soldering one! Plus Drogon is fatigued from battle, like a Zippo without much fuel left. Shake him up, maybe you'll get a few more lights out of him.
The melting point for iron is A LOT higher than concrete. By over 1000 degrees
@@paulpierce1001 I didn't know concrete could melt, doesn't it just explode? Anyhow, the walls aren't concrete, they're stone. And as we know from Harrenhall, dragons can straight up melt stone, which not only takes extreme heat (1500c), but also extreme pressure. So if dude could melt fuggin' rocks, iron throne would be no problem.
@@lexxivexx It's not a matter of temperature, it's a matter of resistance to pressure. You can shatter a stone with a solid hammer strike, but you don't do anything to metal. At best, you'll bend it lightly. The difference is the same as when police uses water cannons for riot control while firefighters drop water from helicopters to put off forest fires. In riot control is the pressure of the water that matters, because it is used as a method to physically hurt without being deadly. When putting out forest fires, however, the nature of water is more important. The pressure of Drogon's spit is what broke the weaker stone, but against a much more resistant object, entirely made of steel steel (despite it being called the iron throne.. [there is valyria steel, so it's fucking steel]) it won't be able to break it.. only melt it.. but just because he'll keep heating it for longer, until it will have no choice but to.
@@lexxivexx just about everything solid has a melting point tbh. When it comes to stone there's a wide range of melting points depending on the composition of the stone. Stone can melt at 1200 C. You can't blanket-statement stone. Iron is it's own element. So it has a set melting point at 1538 C regardless. And that's disregarding the fact that the throne is allegedly made with 1000 swords forged together with the dragon breath of Balerion.
Does it still make anyone else upset to look back on GOT? Sessions 5 and 6 had there problems but at least to me they felt like the same show. Then as if out of nowhere 7 and 8 came out and it almost felt like a parody of the show.
Yeah, I don't even want to rewatch it. Ever. The ending is so upsetting it spoils the whole show for me
That's a running theme with any show that's based on source material that is still in progress (Japanese anime does it a lot when they're translating ongoing manga to screen). When the show catches up to where the source material is they ALWAYS run off into a tangent that is nothing like where the source material was headed.
@@WraithReaper09 They went along to the source material, which in this case, is George's books finale. He said himself that the ending will be roughly the same as that of the show, with only a few differences in the details (which is obvious, since the books will have much more to cover than the show.. stuff that was left out from the beginning).
I don't look back. S7 & 8 ruined retrospectively the whole show, and unlike SW7-9 where I can credibly rationalize it as "not George Lucas' Star Wars", this was through and through the same team doing it all, from start to end.
I'm not even trying to rewatch it. Even Charles Dance's brilliant acting of Tywin is tainted and sullied by the end.
Nothing the characters ever did had any point.
@@WraithReaper09 True, but in most Japanese anime, they just put the main story on hold by some magic way (Aizen is in the hollow world, we can't reach him until he decides to attack, or the classical tournament arc, or they just stretch a single scene from the source material like Edward's qualification as a state alchemist, etc) and go on an unrelated tangent.
Dumb & Dumber could have done a full episode, if not a full season, on how the white walkers came to be. Or on how the dothraki started as a civilization. Or on the targaryan conquests. You don't even need to lock yourself in a "classical medieval-fantasy story". A horror episode where some random wildlings are trying to run away from the white walkers writes itself. A mystical tale about the children of the forest and how a few of them went on to serve the 3-eyed-raven also writes itself.
Sure you have some source material to stick to, but you can dance widely between these dots.
And that's 5min of solo thinking. Make it a brainstorm with 3 or 4 writers and you can make 30 of these, just to fill in wherever you want/need.
26:00 to be honest after time has passed and we've thought about the ending, I believe the reason they didn't show us a bigger reaction from Dany is that they wanted to limit the sympathy from the audience towards her, given the ending they were going to give her. That's why they also needed Dany to act so monstrously by end of the show, so Jon and Tyrion stayed sympathetic to the public. I mean, if we remember the reaction she had when she enclosed Rhaegal and Vyscerion in season 5, the reaction to their death in the final seasons doesn't make sense.
The ending of this video literally defines my old roommate who had to leave the room after the series finale and cry alone for over an hour before returning to the room to explain how much the show had meant to him as a person and how much he invested in everything and to be done dirty like he had been was too much to handle.
The showrunners should know that their final decisions literally brought grown adults to tears.
Tell your roommate that he was not the only one. When Drogon nudges Dany's corpse, I started wailing and continued to do so through the finale. I am still upset over the last two seasons and it's been over a year.
@@oliviaalves3559 the finale aired on my better halfs birthday and it was rough for both of us. we both adored dany and turned it off once she died. Still haven't seen the ending!
@@kennedykitrussell1452 Dany was always going to be the final villain. & I preferred it over the cliché happy ending.
D&D just didn't know how to connect Point A to Point B. It was handled poorly. & honestly you didn't miss much after her death. Jon's storyline was irrelevant. No one seemed to care about his lineage & he was sent to the wall. . Bran the character who literally did not appear for a couple seasons became King because why not. There was no gratifying ending for anyone except maybe Sansa. Oh yea, she became Queen of an independent North.
@@JorgeGarcia-rc4zilisten as much as i love dany though, to see her turn into the villain would have been sick! and i always knew she was gonna die, and even encouraged it if she was gonna go out for a good reason. but what we got was a piss poor shit show. they butchered my fave and im still bitter lmao. also if bran knew everything does that mean he knew what dany would do and didnt try to stop her? and then became king??? dick move
@@JorgeGarcia-rc4zi Every single character had an appropriate ending. Tyrion learned that his wits aren't infallible, accepted it, and regained his confidence afterwards. Jaime was unable to overcome his weakness, and that brought him to death, Jon realized that there was no path to absolute good, and decided that he was not fit to lead, brann was made king because, as the three-eyed rave, he has the history of humanity in his head.. dude's the only one with wikipedia in a medieval fantasy world, it's unexpected, but makes sense.
I literally hate Season 7 so much. Everytime someone suggests just to use dragons, Tyrion is like “Noo! Don’t be evil like your daddy and burn everyone!” But the thing is... she doesn’t have to. She just has to fly them to the Red Keep. The people of King’s Landing should already hate Cersei, her own armies should already hate Cersei, the main reason why it was so hard to fight against the Faith in the first place (before Maegor-Jaehaerys i) was that the soldiers you wanted to use against them, believed in that religion as well, now why would they want to support, and fight for maybe die for the woman who blew up their most glorious Sept and killed the person whom they accepted as the reflection of gods in their world? Mind you that is also the same Sept, Dany’s ancestor built, named after himself. These people also suffered three wars in the last twenty years (Robert’s Rebellion, Iron Islands Rebellion, War of The Five Kings) since the fall of Targaryens, and because they cut fAegon out of the show Daenerys was the last Targaryen they knew of. They should be glad that she is there, even open the gates for her. If her last name doesn’t convince them to support her, the three fire breathing beasts flying over their heads surely would. It would take mere seconds for the people of King’s Landing to rise against Cersei, Daenerys wouldn’t even need to use her armies or burn anything, save for maybe some towers or walls to demonstrate power. Their mistake was to cut off fAegon and the real Euron from the show, because of that no real power stood against Daenerys during her conquest, so trying to stop her from getting the throne immediately felt stupid.
Yes! Cersei on the show obviously took over fAegon's storyline from the books. It's the only way to explain why in the ever-loving fuck anyone would support her after she blows up the sept. Dany landing just as fAegon takes the throne and finally stabilizes a war-torn country perfectly accounts for why everyone is against her. She's an invader with a foreign army at her back, allied with one of the most hated families in Westeros (she'll probably marry Victarion for the fleet since I don't see any other way for her to get it without doing some ironborn burninating). She's also a woman, the daughter of the mad king with three fire breathing monsters at her back, coming to bring more war to the tired smallfolk of Westeros. She'll look like a fucking harpy in comparison to fAegon, a Rhaenyra trying to usurp the rightful male heir. Ofc everyone will be against her, and with dark, book Tyrion there to encourage all her worst impulses, then it's perfectly plausible that she'll end up going on a rampage and burning KL to take it. Having Cersei take on his storyline made such little sense that it fucking destroyed everything all the way back in s6 no less.
Thea M This! They also tried to give some parts of it to Jon, but it just doesn’t work. I don’t think she is going to marry Victarion, I think he is gonna get roasted by some dragon as Moqorro smirks in distance but still, she will have the Greyjoy fleet, Dothraki and Unsullied at her back, not a good look. Whereas fAegon will be a reflection of Rhaegar, their much beloved Prince. I think that Darkstar is going to join him too, as a fake Arthur Dayne, just like fAegon is supposed to represent a fake Rhaegar. Daenerys obviously is going to be angry and heartbroken when she finally arrives at Westeros, the place that is supposed to be her home but someone else has everything she thought would be hers. Even more angry, if she learns fAegon is actually a pretender. Whilst I don’t think she will intentionally burn innocent people alive because she is angry (especially book!Dany duh), she might just accidently set off the wildifre catches under the city. And Tyrion will surely play a big role in causing chaos between two sides, thus The Dance 2.0. Even his eyes are a foreshadowing of that. One is Green and the other is Black. They tried so hard to make him a hero, when book!Tyrion is just not that... I can never understand why they cut off fAegon and the whole Dorne storyline, it ruined the second half of this show.
I have watched the show multiple times and I cant complete seasons 7 and 8. I just stop and go back to season 1.
latamarap13 If you loved the show, you’d love the books even more. Season 7 and Season 8 are bad, but trust me Season 5 and arguably Season 6 (the last episode does not make up for the rest of the season) are not any better. Especially Season 5. Even the first four seasons have major problems regarding character arcs, the characters you see on the show are watered down versions of their book counterparts. Important ascepts of characters (such as Dany’s young and hopeful side and her longing for home, the trauma Jon has from growing up as a bastard, and his more clever and lowkey bitter/sassy side and so many other characters such as Jaime, Stannis, Arya, Littlefinger, Varys, Ellaria, Tyrion etc.) and even whole plots are taken out for seemingly no reason at all. I suggest you to read the books, I’m sure you’d enjoy it.
do we know that the brother Tagaryen is fake or is that still to be determined? I think that's why you got the muddled jon and bran stuff was some of that stuff was for the Tagaryen brother. I didn't think of cersi having some of those but that would make sense. In the books I''m expecting jaimie to be dead before the sacking in the books so that would make sense if she was taking over some of that story line in the tv series. i'm expecting cat stark to play a lot of the parts that the red witch did in the tv series.
As for the flame inconsistency, it's a bit odd that their fire was so weak previously, since the books repeatedly point out that dragonfire melts the stone they use to build their castles and their walls.
The fact we didn't get dragon(s) vs ice dragon is criminal.
@Haku infinite YOU are a better writer than them. That is now a confirmed fact.
@Haku infinite well they put their entire army in front of winterfell instead of archers firing from the walls, they put their fucking threbuche OUTSIDE the wall, not to mention the dothraki...
The writer clearly have absolutely no idea about war tactics
@@LordHollow any person with an avarage IQ would be a better writer than D&D
@@gionaldori5811 "In that moment we see the dothraki die" next episodes "surprise tactical respawn"
“The king defenestrated himself” NICE word usage.
Went to check that out. Laughed at how specific that was :D
I remember learning this term in high school history. Don't remember the actual event the defenestration of someone, but the word stuck with me. Fenster means window in German so at least I know the region.
@@skajohncarter The Defenestrations of Prague probably (Prager Fenstersturz). They happened three times throughout history and the third resulted in the Thirty Years' War.
skajohncarter it‘s deFENEStration though, not Fenster. I recall learning it as a French word
Defenestration is a popular way of execution throughout European history.
I believe the connection between the dragons and Jon had only one purpose - so Jon could go through the Red keep that Drogon guarded. That was the only way to kill Dany.
I can hear your enthusiasm in this whole episode for the dragons, and your dripping disappointment on how they were squandered. I feel you on both of those so hard dude
The way they killed Viserion upset me on so many levels I lost all investment in the show at that point. I still haven't seen season 8 outside of clips from videos like this, and I'm so glad I decided to back out when I did.
Danielle Goldman Luuuuckkkkkyyy!! Man I wish I had done that!
yeah you clearly dodged a bullet
The way they killed Rhaegal reeked of "we only have enough budget for one CGI dragon in the finale, so make it quick."
I love that they made Drogon kind of...cuddly in a way. I almost had an emotion when he nudged Daenerys after she died. I was too pissed off at that point to let the show make me cry but it was a near thing.
Α 39 minute video of " Savage Books" talking about the Dragons in Game of Thrones? You made my day man! Thank you!
Day was already made by Macabre Storytelling's Dorne Rewrite for me. This made the week for me. ;)
the showwriters REALLY put some new pressure on Martin to save his story before he dies.
Lets hope that was their goal all along to get the books finally lol
This show really went from one of the best cases of storytelling in media for all of history to a literal study on what to not do when making a story.
*”WAS”*
EDIT: dude I could listen to you trash the last two seasons all day long
Her "alittle longer" line was her waiting for JON not morning her child.
Lmao that makes it so much worse
I think the dragons ARE very intelligent, but the link between their "rider"/"mother" is underrated. The dragons might have chosen to starve to death underground because that's what Daenary's wanted them to do. Also, they are an alien intelligence, very different from humans. It's a limited view of existence to think that all intelligent beings must think and act exactly as humans do.
I don't like the mother aspect of Daenarys's relationship with her dragons. I'm only a few minutes into the video, and I don't know if I can make it through a 40 minute discussion on dragons, so forgive me if this is addressed. The idea of loving deeply your weapons of conquest is icky beyond ick.
Unfortunately, you're suggesting that they also have no agency. The first rule of life for intelligent beings is self-preservation. It's why actual children and animals resist their parents who try to do them harm. If they have the capacity they will try to feed themselves if their parents don't supply with food. Or scream if they don't have that capacity. It's not a human concept, it's the concept of existence for all forms of life. Even plants will try to grow in the direction of sunlight. The only reason that self sufficient beings would allow themselves to starve to please their parents is succumbing to abuse.
And we limit the emotional and intellectual capacities of dragons because we create them. As they don't actually exist they can only have styles of being that we allow them.
@@ajae... dany doesn't see her dragons as weapons of conquest, though. it is just a side issue. her dragons are her children - first and foremost. they were not only born during her most vulnerable period in her life (don't forget she was also a very young teenagers at a time too without any other family or close friends), but they were born from the biggest sacrifice she could have made. while drogo and dany's unborn child weren't killed for the dragons to be born, the dragons were born bc of that indirect and unintended sacrifice. for daenerys, her dragons are her children before everything else.
also, during that time it is not that crazy to fight alongside your children or use them in the conquest. all the noble houses used their sons for battles - from lannisters to tyrells. why wouldn't dany use her own children to do the same? you could call it a family business lol.
@@vegetablea9611 Not only does she see them as weapons of conquest, but she uses them as such. Even while they were growing she kept saying they weren't big enough for what she needed them to do, which was conquer Westeros. You think she sees them as children because it's what she kept saying. But what she actually did with them is the truth of what she really thought about them. She says they're her children because no one was around to explain the connections between riders and dragons, and since was traumatized by the loss of her actual child when the dragons hatched, she confuses the emotions. However, the number of times they kill her enemies explains what the relationship actually is.
You can't let characters lead you around by the nose. Use your own thinking.
What angers me the most about the ending is that it makes me not want to ever rewatch the series. I rewatched every season before seven like 2 or 3 times before it came out, now what's the point.
I feel this. And it's even worse if you want to show the series to someone else. When before, you could argue to a skeptic that despite the hype, it was an awesome series that definitely deserved a watch, now I'm caught in between "well I wouldn't want to hype them up for such a huge disappointment in the end" and "I have to find a way to convince them to stop watching after season 6 and take my word for it that it's better this way."
Those two final seasons retroactively stripped the entire series of most of its value, and I'll probably die angry about it.
It sucks when the end of a series you loved makes you feel sad and angry and embarrassed to have liked it in the first place 😕
Same!!!!
@@darkfyraproductions7958 I read all the books right after finishing the first season of the show and I feel like 2 lifetimes have passed since (I got married, emigrated, divorced, changed careers 3 times and saw 3 different administrations in my country) and no continuation of the series have come out. But I still feel like no payout is better than whatever the finale was.
How great would it have been if Danny fully broke down when viserion died. So much so that she is completely frozen not able to do anything with herself and fully unable to get drogon off the ground. Someone would have to take the reins and who would be the perfect candidate to pilot a dragon? If jon hadn't gone bloodthirsty and instead took control of drogon that would have shown danny that shes not as special as she thought and might have seen him as a threat. This wouldn't have outright stopped their romance and instead added a layer of distrust for danny. This also would have sewn seeds of jealousy in her when jon is praised for saving the day while she mourned her child, making her see mourning as week making her a bit more callous towards the dragons feeling the love of the people is more important. This could lead down the path where she sicks drogon on his brother because of the reasons you already stated.
I always found baffling that she never had a reaction in that moment when Vyserion was shot down and not one scene afterwards of her mourning her dragon/child. She was immediately worried about Jon which makes 0 sense given that they barely knew and spent time with each other. The entire scene you wrote is infinitely better. Good stuff.
She didn't even have that much of a reaction when Viserion came back as an ice dragon. Just a look like "Oh crap, that sucks" and that's the end of that. How distraught and enraged would you be if the very person who killed your child resurrected them and used their frostbitten corpse as a puppet to attack you as the ultimate insult? She spent longer mourning over Jorah in "The Longest Night" when the skeleton of Viserion, which she just got done having Drogon fight, was lying a couple feet away. Come to think of it, what did they even do with Viserion's body after the battle? He sure wasn't among the dead that were burned.
@@cassie6146 Yeah... Don't ask yourself too many questions regarding the logic of the last two seasons. You will be massively disappointed. lol
That would have gone against dragon-riding lore. Dragons aren't horses, and once bonded to a rider, they won't just magically allow another one to ride them, even in a state of emergency (just look at what happened to Rhaenyra Targaryen's son Joffrey when he tried to mount her dragon. She threw him off and he ended up falling to his death). So having that happen would have been illogical. Just Jon taming and mounting Rhaegal would have been enough to let Dany know that she isn't special, and that her power is not unique. But everything about Jon's Targaryen heritage was totally ignored on the show, and nobody even questioned why a random northener was able to climb and ride a dragon by himself (even when DnD specifically said in interviews that only Targaryens can do that. So everything in regards to dragonlore on the show was absolute garbage.
I love all of this.
Savage Books It was a pleasure to listen to you. It's obvious that every minute of this video is carefully planned - both the script and the shots. It was focused, composed and controlled from beginning to end and I really appreciate that... I wish season 7 and 8 of GoT would be at least on that level.
It's something that I noticed around season 6. The dragons were tension dissolving insta-win buttons. Whenever Danny was in danger she (or the writers) could just push the dragon button and she wins or escapes that danger.
Yeah, I noticed this too, especially with contrast to the books. In season 5, Drogon shows up instantly to save Dany in the fighting pits, whereas in the books there was no coup, the sons of the harpy weren't there (although someone did try to poison her). Drogon appeared because he smelled blood and went in for an easy meal. He started eating the corpses of the gladiators and that was when everyone started to panic and attack him. He nearly killed Daenerys (he burned her a bit and some of her skin even fell off), she had to whip him into submission. It was Drogon who created the tension in that scene, he caused chaos and ruined the fragile stability the city was in.
They made it look so easy to control a dragon in the show, and completely took the tension off of so many scenes. Another example is the scene where Tyrion frees the dragons in the show, which goes completely different in the books. It's not even Tyrion who frees them, but a dornish prince in an attempt to steal one of the dragons. Rhaegal kills the prince and both dragons break free. They make their lairs on top of the pyramids and are "terrorizing" the city. In the show, they just conveniently wait for Daenerys to attack the slavers to make their escape.
Even if we take the "don't burn Kings Landing" as the legitimate reason not to use the dragons to storm the city...
There is one more thing the dragons provide which for some reason just underused.
Aerial reconnaisance and strike force.
You have highly mobile assault and reconnaisance units. They fly fast, they see stuff from above, hit the enemy like a truck and provide lots of intimidation.
Just fly around, look for the enemy weak spots and hit hard. Rinse, repeat. The enemy has no army in a couple of days, and you still have the bloodraiders, the uninsuiled and local allies. Steamroll to the capital, and proceed to the North.
I've always preferred wyverns to dragons, the extra set of limbs on dragons typically looks worse than just 2 legs and 2 wings imo. I am glad they get used pretty much interchangeably though, dragon designs are almost always still amazing and I feel like if people actually cared about the distinction we'd end up with either a lot less wyverns or a lot less dragons and I don't want to tamp down on the variety of dragons we see in media.
The only thing bigger than this man's biceps is his intellect.
I'm so glad you didn't say dick.
@@ChadKakashi I mean, it probably is, but I wouldn't know.
His biceps are actually brains that couldn't fit in his skull
I see you're a fan of Crusader Kings. A man of culture.
Kendall Cole I’m glad it not a rare niche
Dude I thought I didn't close the game XD
I caught that too. A nice touch, honestly.
I'm so glad you heard the music too
Is that music not copyrighted by Paradox? Where and when could one get away with using it?
Imagine if it did follow that path where Daenery's try to have drogon kill the other dragon, but drogon doesn't listen and they both leave her.
I bought Skyrim for the dragons too. Then about ten hours in, I was pretty effin SICK of sky-rats constantly turning up. That game cured me of any fascination I had with scaly-pigeons.
Get the Diverse Dragons mod. Fight a Lustrous Dragon and a Zephyr Dragon at the same time
I still feel like 99% of the failures in seasons 7 and 8 can be chalked up to D&D being bored and entitled and Benioff thinking "themes are for eighth grade book reports."
The one panel session they did after the show ended made it so, so clear they were never the source of anything good about it, just the idiots lucky enough to be in the room.
I’m addicted to your videos savage! These are so binge able, love your voice and in such high quality
One of the first changes I hated with all my heart, and to this day still one of the scenes I hate the most is in Season 5, in the fighting pit when Daenerys magically calls Drogon to rescue her from danger. Freaking hated it, in the books Drogon IS the danger he is wreaking everything and he was atracted due to the fighthing not her momy magical powers, then Daenerys herself tame the dragon with a whip and it's an incredible inspiring scene that would have make Daenerys character a lot better, shame the writers prefer deus x machinas and plot armor rather than interesting and well written scenes and characters or continue what they established.
Exactly. I was so disappointed with that scene when I first watched it. Daenerys in particular has a lot of scenes changed from books to show which do nothing for her character.
What do you think of the starks and warging? There is a lot of lore that would support “mommy magical powers” to communicate with her dragons. She never had a mentor so she does not understand how it all works just going from intuition. In danger our senses increase so that makes sense to me. But agree the book was a far better scene.
I just finished this book and I agree. The writers left out and changed too much from Dance with Dragons that had major impacts on why the last two seasons didn't make sense.
A whip is a slave masters weapon they already had tried to steer her character towards not a slave master and being more good even though she does plenty of bad things. Recent events show it might not have been the best idea(or good idea in this case to change) to show someone or something being whipped to tame them particularly since it was the black dragon.....I don't remember the book but I thought the tv serious was more mother child bond, then magic powers. Like when you have a sibling you know something bad just happened even though you are hundred of miles apart. The book scenes were almost always better, red wedding, early reek and fall of winterfell, cat stark coming back to life with the power passed to her....