ARCANE vs the OLD MASTER Trope (ft Yoda) | 1min Analysis
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- #LeagueOfLegends #Heimerdinger #Netflix
Heimerdinger is introduced as the “old wise master”, but by the end we realize that Arcane pulled a fast one on us. With characters like Yoda, we see the “Old Master” trope play out classically: Yoda is misjudged by Luke Skywalker because of his size and quirky habits, and his advice is initially ignored, then Luke returns once he understands the value of Yoda’s sage wisdom. Heimerdinger turns this trope on its head, with Jayce repeatedly ignoring his advice and finding success, banishing Heimerdinger from his position, and eventually developing independently of him entirely. A beautiful subversion of a subversion by the Arcane writers.
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Heimerdinger is so experienced, the world he got the experience in is already dead
very well put!
Well said. And he is absolutely horrible at conveying his message to people, because he, for some reason, just expects people 280 years younger than him to understand his misgivings on an emotional level. I'm sure Jayce and Viktor are well aware of what cataclysms Heimer is referring to, since they're extremely well educated and since they never even ask what he's talking about, but they don't have the same gut punch reaction to potentially destructive magic that he does, and he is seemingly unaware of that. Yet again, his failures of empathy cost him and everyone around him dearly.
@@djx7134 You can see his inability to read the room in the theatre scene, where he is the only one just vibing to the music.
@@marcusc9931 what theatre scene?
@@SahilP2648 When Jayce starts making business deals with the corrupt elite - the one with Ray Chen cameo playing violin on stage.
Excited to see how Heimerdinger is going to evolve and grow as a character in the next season, since he is no longer the old master archetype
me too!!
From a wise yet conservative master to “Let's make a big ass mechanical T-Rex”
I hope he works with Ekko
I'd like to see him evolve as he starts to live alongside the people of the undercity. Understanding their suffering, helping them. Educating kids or whatnot from the hidden village.
I want to see him try and make that population prosper.
Next season? I didn’t know they were making more
I also really like how heimerdinger is very much blinded by the privilege of a long life, he takes everything slow and keeps it the same, he both doesn't want change because he's already seen so many die around him, but also encourages passivity because he can afford to see the future decades later where the Nobody else can
Yes and he doesn't acknowledge that the people living NOW could benefit from hextech (like Viktor) because he's so used to have the ability to really research something before deciding to do something about it... Normal people don't have that. They have to take bigger risks and can't wait a few decades.
@@Orangecatenergy It can go both ways. Hextech can be used to better people's lives (as seen with Viktor) AND it could possibly hurt people's lives (as seen with Jinx). It was definitely a hard choice to accept this double edged sword into society.
@@Orangecatenergy And that usually cost a lot more lives. Did you seriously think our society today was not built on a foundation of corpses?
Yeah!!!
The sad truth is that progress takes time and we can only pass our work onto our ancestors and hope they can create what we envisioned
Jayce really made a great point about how Heimerdinger had been alive for over 300 years... Yet what did he have to show for it when you look at the undercity?
When you look at the suffering of Zaun, what has he done to mitigate that? He was too far removed from humanity and that's why he was just willing to let Viktor die. Jayce has made some mistakes because after all he's young, and tossed into a world of politics he never wanted nor pursued.
But literally on his SECOND DAY, he found out that there was a lot of corruption involving inaccuracy of inventory of his & Viktor's very own tech. Yet Heimerdinger, someone who's been on the council the whole time, didn't focus on that but wanted to focus on destroying the one Hextech tool that could help Viktor live. His ignorance is showcased when all of those deals among council members are made in the music hall while he is quite literally blissfully unaware of it all.
That's why he was so entirely surprised by being kicked off the council: If he had actually wanted to make sure that everyone held themselves accountable, then he would have been holding them accountable *a long time ago.* Not just now - in order to practically kill Viktor. That's why Jayce had that outburst: "Who's holding *you* accountable?"
You're literally trying to kill his best friend, and *for what?*
Well said. The music hall scene in particular is a perfect microcosm of Heimerdinger's approach.
I agree and this is why I didn’t feel bad for Heimerdinger when Jayce booted him off the council.
I think you’re giving the Viktor point more weight than it actually carries. Heimerdinger never came off, to me at least, as unsympathetic towards Viktor or Jayce. But he was looking at the bigger picture rather than one individual; how many will suffer if we continue developing this technology, even if it allows one man to live? The “bigger picture” mentality is present in a lot of what Heimerdinger does, he’s been alive for so long and seen so much that he is able to focus on what he thinks is best for the greater good rather than what might bring short term benefits. Of course, he’s not always right about what the greater good is (Zaun is the obvious example), and this mindset overall has its drawbacks. But I would hardly call it ignorance. That being said, I can totally understand why Jayce would perceive his actions as uncaring, even if that wasn’t the original intent. Like someone else mentioned, Jayce only sees it as “you want my best friend to die?” instead of “you want to prevent the death and suffering that you’ve seen this sort of technology create before”. It’s a matter of differing perspectives.
@@thedestroyasystem He certainly was afraid of the bigger picture, the destruction it would bring and in the end he was actually proven right in that fear when Jinx fired Fishbones.
The show is very much about the balancing act of everything in the world, when it came to hextech it brought better transportation of goods but also brought some of the most deadly weapons up to that point.
He sat around listening to opera, while people suffered and died
I know people are on the edge of their seats to find out who died in the council bombing, but I feel like what I'm most excited to see in s2 is Heimerdinger and Ekko's relationship. I think it'll be really good for both of them, and it'll hopefully give Ekko an excuse to have more screen time than he has so far. Them working together on the Z-Drive or some other really cool tech and building a partnership at the same time is almost too cute for Arcane but gods I hope it happens lol
totally agree, i love the amount of anticipation theyve built up for heimerdinger as a scientist without actually showing him in that role yet
Indeed. Heimerdinger was correct, but he was not wise. His age had detached him from those around him.
good distinction!
But his being correct is a product of his age. The issue here is that he can’t fully relate to humans because he lives so long(and is a different species altogether), however his ability to live so long is a very good thing for humanity. With advancement there must be time and with time cultivation, but scientifically speaking doing what Jayce did and rushing everything is a horrible idea and we see why in the show, so Heimerdinger is right because of his age and ability to have forethought on long term consequences that we humans can not because of how short we live comparatively.
The Ekko meetup was the single most brightest moment in act 3 for me. Tough competition i know ◉‿◉
I really loved that too. I am so fricking hyped for their relationship
When heimerdinger and ekko met each other I started screaming that’s the most wholesome thing ever
"The old man becomes a humble student to the young wise master"
(Shows Ekko)
I didn't know I could like this critic anymore than I already did
I think they both have things to learn from each other. Ekko definitely isn't flawless, so I don't think their relationship is going to be as clear cut as that.
@@Birthday888
Hush.
Yoda literally wasn't flawless either. A trope is a trope, not a perfection.
Anyway, I prefer this critic's analysis.
@@rai4119 I... Never said Heimer or Yoda was flawless? XD
Just that Ekko ain't flawless either.
The thing I love about Heimerdinger is that while the entire show proves him right: he is correct about the dangers of magiteck because putting nukes on the hands of random people is always a bad idea.
It does not really matter because the reasons he is right aren't the right ones, he is right because he can simply afford to take all the time in the world to solve anything and everything: hunger? Give me a 100 years, poverty? 300, he doesn't realise that no one else can afford to take it that slow
What other choice does he have though? At least when it comes to Hextech. Making safeguards is going to take time.
For Zaun, I don't think he was saying all of it's issues could be solved with time, I don't think he ever understood how bad things were getting in the first place. Hence why he's so shocked when he arrives in Zaun. He was about to give up before he met Ekko.
He's not like that face on a screen from New Vegas. He's not arrogant. He's naive and set in his idealistic ways, which is a unique flaw for a mentor.
@@Birthday888 "What other choices does he have? " ....What
If you look at Piltover, where he literally focuses his attention on, It seen as a utopia and at the very forefront of modern invention.
Literally, he should have done the exact same thing for Zaun if Piltover was going to continue keeping it as their territory. You making excuses for something like this doesn't bode well for real life. Cuz this dude had been on the council since the very first moment that council became a council.
He had centuries of choices to make equality. And yet you can tell, he's never even stepped in Zaun before.
Yeah, he's definitely naive but what's worse is that he's *negligent.* And THAT'S the issue; and it's what I commonly see in people who say "no, I don't like that solution", because They never offer one in turn to replace the solution they dislike. In the end it just creates a stagnation that doesn't resolve *anything.*
@@rai4119 I did specify that he had very little choice when it came to Hextech.
I'm not making excuses for Heimer, he's a crap leader and politician despite being a good teacher and genius scientist. I think him being kicked off the council was the best thing that's happened to him in the last century since it forces him outside his idealistic, sheltered bubble. I was just clarifying that he's not malicious or arrogant.
I'd also argue that Heimer's problem is that he's too trusting and naive, not that he's negligent. He doesn't understand why the other council members would downplay or cover up Zaun's situation, because Yordles come from a society where deception and corruption are literally non-existant, and so he trusts the council members words for it. Like it's literally not in their nature to lie, cheat or steal. If he was truly negligent and uncaring, then he wouldn't have gone to Zaun almost immediately after he was kicked off the council to see if he could help.
@@Birthday888 heres another problen everyone forgets
The way silco and vander talk its pretty clear that when they were younger that zaun was a literal city of Slaves.
And piltover "freed" them and said "arent you all so grateful?" Without doing anything to try and make their lives actually better
And this isnt like how in the us people still try to say slavery is a problem and people need to be held accountable when literally everyone who suffered under it or kept it around has been dead for many decades, this is still within the past 40 years and heimerdinger helped found that system of oppression and slavery and still thinks everything is all hunky dory
I loved when Jayce mentioned the problem with human mortality, heimer is so content with this course of these two factions cause he just too old to notice that he’s just a figure head essentially, so Jayce pointing out they need action based on the fact no one else is basically immortal.
i remember being pissed at heimer for being in such a high position of power, but yet was blind to the undercitys plight and not recognizing the difference in values between humans and yordles due to their lifespans. but the one thing that he was absolutely right about was the dangers of hextech, as poorly as he communicated them to jayce and viktor. but the true tragedy of its misuse happened out of his sight, which was the factory explosion that killed vi and jinx’s family. how easily it fell into the wrong hands without proper supervision, how easily it ruined the lives of the people caught in its destruction. but of course there was also the corrupt police force and justice system that led to vi’s forced separation from jinx, which heimer was still blind to. it comes full circle and hextech also becomes the weapon that destroyed any hope for peace.
Remember when Heimendinger was introduced he was like " oh you're in a cell but your mind is still free so it's not much of a punishment."
His attitude towards imprisonment is probably one of the reasons the prison isn't properly regulated and why Vi can be kept in prison with no record of criminal activity.
This is very well written. I too write like that when I’m passionate but never when an essay comes up. Truly a double edged sword.
@@noxturn8620 vi was kept in prison with no records because her records were scrubbed on purpose.
What he said was reasonable, the tech needs control. If someone bring the gauntlet to outside the mind its a literal powerhouse. And imagine that the hextech can power a gun, well that's what happens
i was pissed at him as soon as his head came out from behind the door bc he’s one of my
most hated characters in league to play against
There are MANY Star Wars parallels in Arcane: Powder's fall to the Dark Side mirrors Anakin Skywalker's (orphaned, has a mentor who failed her ((Vi/Obi-Wan)), is corrupted by an evil influencer ((Silco/Palpatine)), etc...
Heimendinger is Yoda: Wise leader/teacher who failed. Yoda was a huge failure: failed to recognize the rise of the Sith and even fought a war on its behalf. Heimendinger's ignorance to the plight of the undercity lead to civil war. There are other references to SW lore and several other Sci-fi/fantasy tropes.
hadnt thought of yoda that way, but I totally hear it!
Makes me wonder if Powder will make a sacrifice to redeem herself? No doubt there will be a fallout from the aftermath of season 1’s events. The question is, will Vi have the will to kill her sister, or accept who/what she’s become and try and build a new future from a broken past? If the public were to find out who the individuals are that were responsible for all the chaos? Mobs will be out for anyone they suspect is responsible: good or evil; Vi, Powder, Silco, the Council, before the dust of the ruined city settles.
Yoda didn’t so much fail to realize the rise of the Sith as he failed to recognize how to stop it.
Woah thats frickin brilliant! A subversion of a subversion!
Arcane is absolutely amazing, my mind is blown, they wrote it so masterfully.
I'm still grieving and depressed tho 😢
I would not call it subversion. Simply put, he is a person, not an archetype. He might be a wise mentor when it comes to history and textbooks, but is also streetdumb and out-of-touch with the modern world, due to how he lived before.
Sure thing, the guy is right about hex cores and hextech, that it is dangerous. But, not because it's innately unstable, but because it could be missused.
What really encapsulates this is when he's studying Ekko's hoverboard, and notes the propeller blades are misaligned, until Ekko corrects him that the boards were optimized for the ravine(?). Basically, Heimerdinger is knowledgable but uses outdated design doctrines. It's like trying to build potential-energy based dogfighting adaptations to an interceptor that can target enemy planes beyond the horizon.
i also think it's neat that specifically ekko and heimerdinger are now a pair: one who has so little time to do what needs doing that he'll eventually craft time powers (or something along those lines, i know very little league lore outside of arcane lmao but i believe that's the gist of it) and one who has so much time that he's become totally disconnected from those around him who live life as mortals do. interested to see how their views/experiences on a theme so integral to their characters will play off of each other.
My favourite part about Heimerdinger was that he was just as wrong and guilty as Jace, despite his sage advice to prevent conflict. He sat by for centuries as the under city of Piltover ate itself alive, letting the people kill each other and poison themselves as time went on, and Heimerdinger sat back and built up the top city on the backs of those less fortunate. His intentions were genuine (as are Jace's) but where Jace causes conflict in his pursuit of development and innovation, Heimerdinger caused suffering and poverty through inaction and negligence. The character work in this show is absolutely phenomenal
Fun fact: Apparently Yordles (Heimerdinger's species) are actually named after Yoda (+ Yaddle).
I figured out a great way of describing Heimerdinger.
"Altruism without empathy."
He is always very determined and focused on doing what is "right" with the practice and creation of sciences, but it's only because he is motivated by horrors of the past. He brushes off any notions that this science might benefit people and is only focused on there being no danger or risk whatsoever.
That is a PERFECT description, very well said
I think Heimerdinger's problem is perfectly encapsulated on his first scene, there's Jayce, having one of the worse times of his life, and the little guy just enters the room with a short monologue about imprisonment and how the mind is still free
really like how you ended it by saying that ekko is now the "young wise master" and rightfully so
Well, he´s my favourite character. I myself view him like Yoda during the Clone Wars period. Both characters are wise, old and have great power, but they´ve grown accommodating/indulgent with their duties and tend to forget about those below them, those they were ment to protect and work for. They have the best for the people in their minds, but bureaucracy and negligence brought the jedi council, republic and the city of Piltover to the decadent state that is now.
Both needed and need a new conflict to recover their ideals and recompose their way.
Joyce seems like the kind of guy that won't listen to anybody unless it aligns with his view or goal but then again Mal is the one who manipulates him
The master H has probably never been to the undercity and is just as blind and as closed off as the rest of the members to what goes on in the undercity, that's probably why Jayce made Marcus nervous cause he was actually doing something about the corruption and so on
Jayce wants to help people and isn't going to listen to people who tell him not to
@@christopherballard1348 Exactly!
He really made a great point about how Heimerdinger had been alive for over 300 years... Yet what did he have to show for it when you look at the undercity?
When you look at the suffering of Zaun, what has he done to mitigate that? He was too far removed from humanity and that's why he was just willing to let Viktor die. Jayce has made some mistakes because after all he's young, and tossed into a world of politics he never wanted nor pursued.
But literally on his second day he found out that there was a lot of corruption involving inaccuracy of inventory of his & Viktor's very own tech. Yet Heimerdinger, someone who's been on the council the whole time, didn't focus on that but wanted to focus on destroying the one Hextech tool that could help Viktor live. That's why he was so entirely surprised by being kicked off the council: If he had actually wanted to make sure that everyone held themselves accountable, then he would have been holding them accountable a long time ago. Not just now, in order to practically kill Viktor. That's why Jayce had that outburst: "Who's holding *you* accountable?"
You're literally trying to kill his best friend, and for what?
@@christopherballard1348 I don't disagree with that
@@rai4119 well he has now seen what he was blinded to
@@rai4119 Heimer was alive when some really, really, REALLY bad shit happened that involved magic. Bad enough that it made an entire faction basically just racist against mages. Heimer saw the bad side of magic and he was scared of it, understandably so even. His growth as a character is going to be so good in season 2 with his meeting with Ekko
I really want to see heimerdinger invent something
he made a bayblade :D
They really made Jayce and Heimer much more complex in the show
Sorry, this has nothing to do with the topic in the video. But I think of something you might consider for your next 1min analysis, I was rewatching episode 4, and during the first conversation that Silco and Jinx have after the Firelights attack, Silco tells her that he need to know that he can rely on her then Jinx says "It won't happen again" to which Silco replies (totally confident) "I know".
Do you think that Silco really believe she's not going to screw things up again?
Or does he knows she will and is just willing to deal with the consequences whatever they are?
Whatever interpretation is given to that line, the meaning behind it seems so deep to me.
maybe he simply believes in his daughter and acknowledge that she's doing her best.
interesting, didnt catch that line! will def think about it, thx!
He knows she will keep making mistakes and accepts it. She is a chaotic person, therefore chaos follows her and demolishes best laid plans. She is the broken, flawed, defiant, unpredictable, ingenious embodiment of Zaun. It's what he loves most about her. I daresay that, while he is undoubtedly annoyed by her screw ups, some part of him admires her for them. It's quite an interesting relationship when you break it down.
What I love about this show is that no one is right or wrong. Everyone has different goals and different perspectives. Everyone, young and old, rich and poor, looks out for their own interests using their own experiences and no decision is correct or will lead to the best outcome. Every decision has equal consequences as benefits. So each character needs to choose their path forward not knowing what will happen.
Everyone has talked about heim's long life. But nobody seems to want to acknowledge he's a whole different species with different needs and upbringing. Yordles are known to go insane if isolated, that's what happened to Viegar at the hands of Mordekaiser. It's why he doesn't get the idea of jail. Yordles also are inherently a bit obtuse in the way they see the world since they slowly take on the characteristics of the places they stay in. Heim can't help but take on the traits of Piltover, and it's without the filters, so he's all about study and science but also order and heirarchy. We haven't gotten to meet other yordles in depth, but this is the case for all of them around the world, Kled is glory seeking and thinks he has a right to everything by way of force, Ziggs is chaotic and dangerous but also creative without limits, Poppy is loyal, honorable, but also dull as a brick at times.
You can probably guess their nations off that alone. Heimedinger can't help but be all the best and worst parts of his nation it's just how his species works.
Am I the only one who is sitting here watching this tiny little creature walk along the street and was ready to tear up because it looks so pitiful it was too cute and I felt so bad🥲
It's also important to remember that canonically yordles don't just live for long, they live FOREVER, they literally cannot die of age. This leads to a very large disconnect between yordles ideas of death and reality leading to interesting characters such as hiemerdinger and vex.
All of the Ekko and Heimerdinger scenes are SO FUN AND ADORABLE
Perfect indepth Analysis as always.
That part was amazing when Ekko and Heimerdinger met
The whole dynamic as a master and student as well as the high councilor and new member on the the council is great as well
I love the way they handled Jayce and Heimersinger's relationship. Heim being the "Boomer" patriarch to start and then having him learn the hard way and form a bond with the Zoomer young genius inventor Ekko is SUCH a fun and promising development.
Heimer is old master, but he still grow. The scene where he met ekko open his eyes that Zaun have potential
I view Heimerdinger as one of the premier villains of Arcane. Not through intent - he was indeed an old fool. The fact that he is 300 years old seals the proof - he has been in charge of Piltover for SO LONG, and been the top of the shining beacon on the hill, while "Zaun" suffered. He allowed Zaun to suffer when he should have known better. He talks of technology and prosperity improving the world, while improving only half his city. If anyone is responsible for the state of Piltover/Zaun at the start of this show it is he.
So when Jayce voted him off the council, blaming Heimerdinger, I cheered. LIke it or not, the little fuzzy man was deeply complicit.
Heimerdiner IS wise , its just that he is VERY disconnected from his people just like evry other character in Piltover, they all are disconnected and naive and those who do know what is going on in Zaun dont care, also Heimerdiner was right about magicand the fact that Jayce was reckless
Heimerdinger is not wise at all.
He is experienced, he has seen things, but that does not make him wise.
He kept calling out how magic is dangerous, claimed to have seen civilizations perish because of it, but never bothered going deeper with that, what is foolish if everything.
Him believing that just telling people to not do something because he thnks it's dangerous will stop people from doing it is naive.
Why would Jayce and Viktor believe him? Why would anyone believe that the same could happen in Pitover? Jayce and Viktor created the Hexgates! They made everything better! They are not like those greedy mages, right? So why would the same danger apply?
That Heimer did nothing but scream his concerns without giving anyone any reason to why they should be concerned is not the opposite of wise. It's the foolish argumentation that you can see in politics all the time.
"I think that is bad, I won't explain, just believe me!"
No he's not. Wisdom is gained by experience, but also the reflection of ones self during the experience. Like the quote goes "Knowing others is intelligence, knowing yourself is wisdom." Heimerdinger did NOT reflect upon his disconnection and learn from it, until he was kicked out of the council and met Ekko. For example, he's pretty much immortal and that is why he cannot comprehend why progess couldn't wait for the next decade. Jayce dreamt of improving Zaun because of Viktor, whom was also a close employee of Heimerdinger, Viktor was dying and there was already some shit with Zaun. If Heimerdinger was a wise person, he'd actually try to reflect upon his own ignorance of death in the face of seeing someone he cares about dying before he even met half the life expectancy people in Piltover have and wonder if progress could really wait. Stopping Jayce from trying to improve the country out of fear of danger when half the country is already dying from pollution is just downright stupid. Plus, polluted air and gasses can easily spread. If Piltover citizens were to start getting sick too, then Heimerdinger literally has no humans to protect. Improving conditions was something Zaun had needed since Heimerdinger helped finding the nation over 3 centuries ago, and he kept neglecting it even though there was opportunity for him to grow understanding of the beings he wanted to protect.
@@inferiorinferno8859
" Stopping Jayce from trying to improve the country out of fear of danger when half the country is already dying from pollution is just downright stupid"
because if jayce messes up there is no more pitover or zaun, pitover was MADE to escape the very thing jayce and victor we working on , and victor was making something that WAS the reason why so many fear magic, a artifact that can learn and evolve on its own.
@@chongwillson972 How about, think of this way. Jayce and Viktor found a way to stabilize hex stone and it's improving lives for the greater. Now imagine that same power but it can adapt. Jayce and Viktor, if they wanted to, could use the power for good use. That's there view of it and with Viktor dying, they are doubling down. Ik the sample size is too small and the hex stone is a small feat but these are still young smart scientists who can find a way to improve lives. Of course they want to prove that magic doesn't just destroy lives, they want to improve the times
This is brilliant! Also I heard another comment that said they didn't like his voice. His voice doesn't bother me.😃 Anyone else agree?
I was honestly surprised Ekko didn't call out Heimerdinger when he was so fervently against the Enforcers. He must have know Heim was the HEAD of the council that did nothing to stop the corruption and plight of Zaun. Yet he invites him with open arms. Definitely an inconsistency with Ekko's character but I welcome the development of their partnership!
I love how heimer being kicked off the council must have been such a betrayal for him- yet it was just what he needed. he needed to see the firelights and meet ekko to see how much progress and how many lives can be made and changed in something as small as a couple years. I hope season 2 is able to dive into how his passive mindset changes and how he can think differently because of it :)
The look Heimerdinger gave when he was voted off was so sad like I felt bad for him. Ik his opinions weren't the best and he wasnt helping much but man I almost cried.
Jayce listened to him once, and Jinx robbed him.
Next season we’ll have the gifted kid and the old master working together and I’m all for it
Heimerdinger is the character who because of his long lifespan can get lost in concepts that span for decades. His long age detaches him from the here and now. I love how everyone is in presented as infallible in this show
Thanks to when I first saw Yoda, he is exactly what I think of when I envision a wise master.
I was so happy to see that cliche subverted in a way that made both characters more interesting then they would have otherwise
I think this drives the point home that no one ever really has all the right answers, and as the show goes on it seems to be more and more about how people have to compromise on their ideals and beliefs, and not doing so can lead to the war that process the show
Its more Heimerdingers perseption of time thats his flaw. He sees things in centurys rather then years. Wich is why he cant really understand desperation others have with time wich Viktor is the best example. While his views are good in the long run he fails to see the urgency the city needs both above and bellow.
Side note i love that heimer is all "science should never be used to harm people"
And then in lore builds mecha new t-rexes for the lolz
He wasn't a foolish old man though. He was right. Hextech was immediately abused and put things down a dangerous path.
Even if his predictions were wrong, he wasn't foolish, he spoke from first hand experience about the dangers of magic
Ohhhh man. Season 2. Heimerdinger comes out with surprise Hextech Turrets against whatever threat's going down.
I picture it already and it's epic.
The show is so beautiful because it's doesn't entirely show good and evil. We are seeing things happen from certain characters perspectives. But we don't know the full picture just what we are shown. So depending on the character you relate to or like more you is how you see the world
I don't think he's an "old fool" Ekko can help him learn some new perspectives while Heimer offers new stuff to him as well, his advice was tainted by how much he has lived and the fact that he has seen the world change and go through cycles, we don't really know the context of his visions in the second episode, but probably had some similarities with what Jayce was doing, probably someone that had good intentions but couldn't control magic causing a catastrophe. In short, I don't think his concerns where that much unfounded, and I think we are yet to see if he was completely wrong, both him and Jayce have good perspectives that are very well formed by their characters and experiences, that's why I love this show so much.
He’s one of the best characters tho. Bc he’s seen the chaos magic brings he’s grown afraid and unwilling to think about change with magic, we see him become outdated with his mindset. But still extremely wise and loving even in the face of evil selfish actions.
The biggest subversion of spectation to me was when Jayce was going to present hextech equipment to the public but gave up last second listening to Heimer's advice instead of Mel's.
Everyone be dissing on heimerdinger while he's genuinely the only character from this trope I like
It would be like if the student character kills the teacher character in a typical hero’s journey story
I'm excited to see the anti hextech heimer build a fcking gundam
To be fair to Yoda, his failure during the Age of the Republic to see his shortcomings in treating Anakin like he isn’t part of the Jedi, his failure to kill the Emperor, and his personal exile to Dagobah makes the wisdom that he gives to Luke feel deserved because we see training Luke right is his duty to repent for his old shortcomings. I like how they did Yoda even if it takes context (Clone Wars) that wasn’t around during his debut to make sense of his faults and redemptions as a character to feel deserved.
That is what I liked about Arcane. It wasn't afraid to subvert things.
Bro can't wait for Ekko and Hiemer bonding
It's awesome to see someone actually get ESB's narrative. Thanks for the analysis!
This archetype is found within pinochio, where he has to save gapetto out of the belly of a whale
It's so interesting because Heimerdinger was right in the end, but also completely ignorant at the same time. He didn't want the situation to turn into a tragedy, but failed to see that it already had.
I think heimerdinger is so cute tho lol .. he looks so fussy 🥺
But heimerdinger was right in all his advice . He might not have been perfect in his approach but he was right about the danger of hextech and the hexcore.
“ft yoda” can’t believe we finally got the yoda collab
Also the Old Master character is inherently a flat one, fully developed and at their peak. In Arcanes Heimer, although you are first think that is where he is, you see that he has room to develop still and grow (especially with his venture into Zaun and meeting with Ekko by the end). Which is a more realistic characterization of an old and wisened person, learning never stops, growing never stops unless you close yourself off to it.
Two interactions sum up Heimerdinger in my eyes:
Whats that you want to make peoples lives better? No need for that I already have a good life.
Whats that you want to extend peoples lives? No need for that I already live forever.
I do not understand how people think that Heimerdinger is the good guy! He is a classic example of the powerful holding back advancement to protect their own position. People claim that in the end he was right since Jinx used the hextech to make a weapon, but that only occurs because HE kept the undercity from benefiting from the technology in the first place. Gatekeeping is evil not good.
Heimer isnt ignorant, hes just scared... Scared of the magic that he KNOWS is dangerous. And hes right, sky is prime example.
I think Heimerdinger just simply had to fall to see where things stand. He is still a "master" or "wise man", he just needed a new view in order to shed light on the gravity of turmoil the city faces. I think with his wisdom and knowledge plus a fresh take and new partnership, it will be exactly what's needed to at least attempt to prevent future oncoming perils. Possibly even restoring his name and title when he is needed most.
Keep in mind as well that if we also take a look at the League lore Arcane originates from, Heimerdinger is a Yordle, an immortal race of spirits that can travel between the spirit realm and the mortal realm easily. They take physical furry forms that we can perceive but they are in fact spirits from another, far more lively and peaceful world that we've seen a few times. I don't know if it's the same in Arcane though, but it would also do more to explain why he's so out-of-touch.
Arcane subversions be like: *"I'm a dude, paying a dude disguised as another dude."*
Arcane does this with alot of tropes. Sets up alot of tropes just to go in a completely different path than expected
Heimerdinger represents Preservation - not just the idea of maintaining the good and building foundations to support the better, but also remembering the bad and preventing it from returning. But the dark side of Preservation is stagnation - the antipathy toward change that leads to rot undermining the very structure that is meant to be preserved.
Ekko is Change, and it represents growth and advancement and also destruction of that which is malignant. The problem with Ekko is that he would not ultimately be able to uphold an order even if he took Silco down - some other Chem-baron would rise in his place, because the fundamental role that Silco fills is one the city requires, even if someone else might have been better for the city (Vander).
Between the two of them, they hit a balance that's going to be absolutely essential to the future of both cities.
(Oddly, Vi and Caitlyn are the opposite, with Vi trying to preserve the good of the Undercity as she knew it under Vander, and Caitlyn working to bring down the negative forces in both Piltover AND Zaun.)
I feel that even though Heimerdinger is old and experienced, people still don’t listen to him because he dosent have much of a big influence. Yes he was on the council, but I think people ignore him because the only evidence for what he believes is his old experiences.
Jayce 100% survived the explosion right.
I'M SO HERE FOR SOME MORE EKKO SCREENTIME IN NEXT SEASON!
really arguable conclusion. What Heimerdinger warned about has a historicam precedent in the real world, most notably now and 100 years ago. After Napoleon we had 99 years of peace and in that time technology, most importantly military technology, improved vastly, but we did not properly understand it. This resulted in truly horrific losses of life.
The complacency of the learned will always be my favorite plot point in any show
Jayce literally did more about the undercity problem in 4 days than his mentor did in 200 years. I actually took his side when he kicked the old man off the council and with time passing I only realized how right of a decision he made. He killed one boy? Well Heimerdinger killed thousands by neglection. And the worse is he only showed any trace of remorse after he was retired and was finally forced to go out and touch some grass.
Heimerdinger had been ignoring the council's corruption for as long as it existed but now Jayce is a worse person for doing the same?
Jayce learned from his mistakes and tried to change his ways while Heimerdinger's choice was mostly made FOR him. Jayce would have always tried to do better after seeing his mistakes while Heimerdinger would have remained the useless head of the council for another 200 years given the chance.
I don't get people's judgements. if you're gonna hate on characters for making human decisions, fine. But stop being hypocritical.
But Heimerdinger's wisdom was about the dangers of hextech, Jayce hasn't succeeded yet in proving him wrong. The hextech, even in its most stable form shown, is still a nuke in the wrong hands, and one which likely wouldn't have existed without Jayce's actions. Heimer learning from Ekko is a separate branch of the storyline and doesn't change the dangers he saw in hextech. Jayce could still end up admitting he was wrong to Heimer unless he further assures the safety of the tech.
I see Heimerdinger as this wise old man whose old age makes him out of touch with the people around him. This is first shown when he expected that the inventions of the laser and fists to be released a decade later and he quotes that 10 years will quickly go by. He seems to not understand how precious time is for people and that they do not have the luxury to have such a long lifespan to wait like Heimerdinger's.
So I just finished Arcane and there's been one question that's plagued my mind [SPOILERS}: The kid that Jayce killed was Renni's kid right? So why was he one of the child workers working for Silco? Did Renni let/force him? Did she know he was serving him? Was she pressured by Silco into having her kid work for him? Why would she be so distraught if she knew he was there and what he was doing?
He may have been learning the business.
I love him, but I miss his little pet
But honestly, the old master trope is probably one of the best tropes. It may be overused, sure, but it has given us great characters like Yoda and Master Oogway.
I love how they set up so many classic tropes, and then disregarded all of them.
Great analysis as always.
I'm excited to see what Heimdinger will do now that he's with Ekko. Maybe he can finally use his big brain to help the undercity
i like that Echo is the young wise master
I love that instead of just"younger generation learns from older generation" which they do it first it turns into older generation learns from younger generation which really should be happening more nowadays instead of people being stubborn the adults can learn from the kids now and they always could for me as a fifteen-year-old who's learned quite a lot in a shorter amount of time by some Stroke of Luck I now am the one teaching my parents things and my friends parents and my mom's parents even all I can do is try to help but I'm not the one who decides whether or not someone takes my advice.
And I'm constantly checking to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
They also kinda did that trope with Singed and Viktor
...Or Jayce didnt go crawling back because he couldnt find Heimerdinger... The next time we see him, the old mentor is about to leave the city and is taken in by Ekko
Heimerdinger is a good exemple of failed mentor. He has the knowledge but lost the actual wisdom necessary to use it. His passivity in acknowledging the need to act, rather than serve speeches and empty words, didn't create the rift but let it grow wider. His situation too: his wealth, his fame, his immmortality. He never stopped and wondered what it felt like to be on the other side. What does it feel like to fight for scraps to survive (Zaun)? What does it feel like to be overlooked and feel like an outsider (Viktor)? What does it feel like to know your time is about to end? Getting kicked out the council was the best eye opener, when Ekko proved him "when there's a will, there is a way". Had Heimerdinger realized it sooner, maybe he could have bien the mentor he thought he was to Jayce and Viktor, now is the time for him to redeem himself via Ekko
I'm not sure if Heimerdinger wouldn't have made that choice with Silco. I think if Heimer had seen and done what Jayce did, he would've done something very similar.
The problem is that Heimerdinger would've never seen what Zaun turned into and is going through without Jayce kicking him off the council in the first place, so he would've been ignorant until it was too late.
this was a good one, thanks :)
Jayce: Heimerdinger, Heimerdinger! Viktor is dying. I need to do something. What do I do?
Heimerdinger: Let him die.
Jayce: .....
Jayce: ......
Jayce: (turns to Viktor and gets his boot ready) new plan.
Heimerdinger is so cute. I wanna put him in my pocket and carry him around 🥺
Nice analysis.
Jayce be like: ok boomer
Well.. how we know Heimerdinger is an old? Hes 300 yo and Yoda was 900 yo... so maybe hes just cocky Yordle teenager by this longevity scale... =P