Thanks for charting the uncharted.... I have a Nitro 200 that is out of warranty, and it uses the that uses the WB37 also. But I suspect it is jetted differnetly for the Vitto. When looking through the manual, it stated "Max Thrust at 7500 RPM". My tach would only read 6500 rpm. So I decided to follow your lead and adjust my H screw. I got it to 7450rpm and called it a day. A note to other viewers: I spent a good 30 minutes making H screw adjustments that turned out to be way too big (5 minutes in a clock face). I finally making the most minute adjustments, tiny bumps, like a degree. So be subtle.
Why I plan on bringing my paramotor dyno to Bad Apples and charge money to tune people's engines during the day. Its a lot of work and patience. Also, working on a universal lambda sensor to get things dialed to perfection without guessing.
Vittorazi sets the carb rich to protect the warranty. I used to have to replace the plug every 10hrs or so until I leaned the high jet. Now 50 hrs is not even an issue and fuel usage is improved.
Thanks for the informative/helpful video. I wonder if you might comment on something I observed. Will try to explain and be as brief as I can. Today was showing a flying buddy the scout low-jet tuning video and we started leaning out his low jet/screw. Each time we leaned it did not bog and seemed better. But then I we bottomed-out (full close/lean) on the low-jet and it still wasn't bogging. Scratching my head and not knowing what I'm doing... we talked about the high-jet. He told me that about a year ago his instructor had "messed" with his carb but he didn't know what was done. Looking at the high jet I could see that the "warranty tape" from Vittorazi was still unbroken, but clearly the high jet had been richened a few minutes ...but not enough to break the tape. I ended up just putting his low jet back where I found it (which was about 15 minutes from closed) and we left. My guess is that by making the high-jet richer that the low-jet sorta isn't needed ...or needed less and that the high-jet being maybe a little too rich is perhaps why we don't get any hint of bogging with the low-jet completely closed. Thoughts and suggestions would be most appreciated!
So the high jet doesn't get uncovered until you get to a certain throttle level which seems to fall around 6000rpm or so it seems to be. Below that and at idle the low jet is 100% responsible for the motor running. 2 things. Its possible something wasn't Installed quite right when carb was rebuilt. Or wrong gasket was used. Something along these lines. I have never completely closed my low jet but I imagine it doesn't close 100% but when you do your blip make sure you are only using partial throttle to blip. 50% or less as the high jet will come in at full throttle and that could skew things...
@@JustOutHereTinkering Hey thanks so much for taking the time to reply and sharing your thoughts. I'm about 90% certain that this guy's carburetor probably hasn't been rebuilt. I suspect he has less than 100 hrs on the motor and other than his instructor messing with it a year ago I don't think he has touched it... pretty sure he bought the motor new. At any rate, I bet he was "blipping" it to full open and that is something I wasn't aware of, but kinda makes sense. Appreciate it~
Excellent vid bro. You have a good grasp on tuning. I'll add just a tid bit. I only make one adjustment via the low screw. Once in the summer for my summer temps setting where it's typically 90 degrees + here in south Louisiana with a humidity of 80-95% average. And once again to another adjustment in the winter when we see significantly lower temps and humidity. So the low screw only moves from say a 12 oclock position to a 2 oclock position. This is all the adjustment I make. Going from winter to summer setting of course I go leaner on the low screw. Going from summer to winter I go richer on the low screw. Once again this is only a 10% move of the screw. You will know in summer when it's time to make that adjustment because you will look at your exhaust like you mentioned at 5500rpm and if it is shaking back and forth and not rock solid for a 30 second hold....it's overly rich and your engine is running rough. Time to lean it. In winter you will have a hard time starting and then if you add throttle on a rev up before flight she will just bog out and the engine may kill,die on a rev check. It wants fuel. That's when I open the low and go back to winter setting. Give it a try, When I do this at the flying field it's a quick 2 minute adjustment and I'm on my way. No need to over tune or spend hours getting it just perfect in the backyard leaning on the shed. One quick adjustment of the low, don't touch the HI and go fly. Hope this helps, Fly safe!
Thanks! Your suggestion would absolutely work when you are already close on the adjustment. This should be all most people need to do. My high jet was over 2 turns out when I started and it is currently 1 1/8. It had to come in 1 full turn and I'm still on the rich side with my adjustment. I needed quite a lot of leaning out!
Wish more pilots could see this video. Soo many are hung up on not touching the high, which is ridiculous. I had my high tuned before my first flight, but I have 30+ years of rc experience.
since this past winter i had somthing blocking my carb had to remouver the 2 needle after cleaning i put the back at the advertise possition motor was seriously not running that good yersterday i when at the field and did the tuning now my m185 is running so so SO much nicer not more vibration and no more crazy jump between the L-H jet
Nice video and love the demonstration of the effects of different settings. The Factory R has the WG37 carb with the spray bar and the Moster 185 has the WG3A carb so have a slightly different transition between the jets. Really enjoyed the video and finding the magic transition between jets has always been difficult to achieve. I made a video on a carb mod to help reduce the jump ( not trying to promote my video, so haven't posted a link). New Subscriber :)
I want to know why the adjustment they don't want you to touch is the long adjustment screw and the low jet, which you need to adjust when changing LZ altitudes or seasonal pressure changes, is short? Seems like they should be the other way. Fortunately, my motor is running perfectly with just a small low jet adjustment.
I point to each adjuster with a large red arrow in the 1st 2 mins of the video showing you which is which. Low jet (short one) will be your primary adjustment for changes in altitude or weather
How do you like your PAP? Any negatives since you've owned it? I'm on the fence between the PAP Tinox and the MacFly (either Foldable or Travel cage - all titanium). I've narrowed down my choices to these two brands. I like that the PAP comes with an airbag. Have you ever had a hard landing? If so, how helpful was it? (If I went with a MacFly, I'd probably buy an Acpo univeral airbag for it). Otherwise, I like the teardrop shape of the hoop on the MacFly. No matter which way I go, I want the 150cm cage with the 140cm prop. (All three cages look pretty flimsy. Are they, or are they sturdier than they look? I worry about the prop hitting lines/netting/cage, especially on power forwards - as a newbie).
I can only attest to the Pap, never seen a MacFly (although Chris at Superfly posted a video and mentioned the need for a spacer on the Macfly to avoid the prop hitting the hoop) but my Pap has been great. The hoop is pretty strong when you tension the netting well and it doesn't flex as much as you might think. The current V2 frame is very sturdy and the breakdown is super simple. I also LOVE how easy it is to fuel up. Seeing other people struggle with funnels and squeezing the tank spout into tight spaces looks annoying and makes me appreciate my pap. My ONLY complaint is that the kill switch is just a little too accessible and I hit it sometimes on accident. But I swapped my throttle and no more of that issue. As for hard landings, I never took one where the airbag would be a factor, so couldn't tell you how much it helps, but it doesn't hurt!
I see, it's just a straight piece thru the hole. It looked like a small tool you slip over the adjustment screw with a bar to facilitate turning. Due to the very limited space, I may have to design such a tool. A 3D printed small tool for adjustment would weigh nothing and could fly in the storage pocket so you always have it with you.
Getting more power higher RPM wears the motor quicker, it’s sort of taking it as far lean as possible. At least if you’re not doing competitions is it really necessary to go to max lean? To make engine last longer running smooth as possible closest to rich side wouldn’t that be healthier for the engine not worrying about RPM’s so much?
If you can not cleanly get to full rpm (which is a range between 8700 and 9000) then you are going to build up carbon and cause issues with your motor. I'm not telling you to go full lean, my motor revving to 8700rpm is the richer side of the safe range. There are pilots running 9200rpm and that's dangerous. The spark plug should be a nice coffee brown. If it's way too rich it's not good. If it's too lean it's not good. Need to be adjusted properly! It's also about having a smooth power band. If you are too rich your RPM will jump 1000-3000 right when the high jet opens up. This is not good for you flying because you have no control of your power application, and it's not good for your motor either....
Well that could be due to a few things. Make sure you have a fresh plug in there. Your wing could also contribute to this. But your motor is going to run best and be the most fuel efficient when it is tuned just right. Follow scout's guide for the low jet and make sure your high jet is set within the range vittorazi gives you. If it's pulling clean all the way to max rpm it should be running efficiently as well.
@@JustOutHereTinkering tried a brand new plug as well as various wings. Even with a brand new super efficient viper xc I only get 4.5L/h neutral trim for straight and level flight. Friend with a top 80 gets less than 2L/h on the same wing.
@Jon ok so i did some looking and the atom 80 isnt the same as the moster... if it were me I would rebuild that carb and then start from factory settings. You can check to see where you are now before rebuilding. Just carefully turn your fuel screw all the way in and count how many turns you go until it stops. You should be 1 1/2 to 1 3/4. You either have something wrong with the carb, an air leak somewhere possibly, or something. I am less familiar with the atom though...
Check and see if you still have solid fuel in the lines after you shut it down and attempt to restart. Could have a bad check valve in primer bulb causing fuel to vacate the line. Could also be an air leak developing when everything expands from being hot. Have you rebuilt the carb and if so how long ago? Also make sure your gas cap is venting and allowing air in
Hej, dzięki Twojemu filmowi udało mi się ustawić gaźnik! wielkie dzięki. Before:ua-cam.com/users/shortso0VSj4YjIO4 after:ua-cam.com/video/iFV8p3IvD6s/v-deo.html
Thanks for charting the uncharted.... I have a Nitro 200 that is out of warranty, and it uses the that uses the WB37 also. But I suspect it is jetted differnetly for the Vitto. When looking through the manual, it stated "Max Thrust at 7500 RPM". My tach would only read 6500 rpm. So I decided to follow your lead and adjust my H screw. I got it to 7450rpm and called it a day.
A note to other viewers: I spent a good 30 minutes making H screw adjustments that turned out to be way too big (5 minutes in a clock face). I finally making the most minute adjustments, tiny bumps, like a degree. So be subtle.
Glad I could help you out brother!
Why I plan on bringing my paramotor dyno to Bad Apples and charge money to tune people's engines during the day. Its a lot of work and patience. Also, working on a universal lambda sensor to get things dialed to perfection without guessing.
Vittorazi sets the carb rich to protect the warranty.
I used to have to replace the plug every 10hrs or so until I leaned the high jet. Now 50 hrs is not even an issue and fuel usage is improved.
Ya, there is rich and then there is pig rich hahaha. I am all for favoring rich but our motors have to run right!!
Yes I agree. How much do you think you wound it in? 1/8th turn leaner?
Thanks for the informative/helpful video. I wonder if you might comment on something I observed. Will try to explain and be as brief as I can. Today was showing a flying buddy the scout low-jet tuning video and we started leaning out his low jet/screw. Each time we leaned it did not bog and seemed better. But then I we bottomed-out (full close/lean) on the low-jet and it still wasn't bogging. Scratching my head and not knowing what I'm doing... we talked about the high-jet. He told me that about a year ago his instructor had "messed" with his carb but he didn't know what was done. Looking at the high jet I could see that the "warranty tape" from Vittorazi was still unbroken, but clearly the high jet had been richened a few minutes ...but not enough to break the tape. I ended up just putting his low jet back where I found it (which was about 15 minutes from closed) and we left. My guess is that by making the high-jet richer that the low-jet sorta isn't needed ...or needed less and that the high-jet being maybe a little too rich is perhaps why we don't get any hint of bogging with the low-jet completely closed. Thoughts and suggestions would be most appreciated!
So the high jet doesn't get uncovered until you get to a certain throttle level which seems to fall around 6000rpm or so it seems to be. Below that and at idle the low jet is 100% responsible for the motor running. 2 things. Its possible something wasn't Installed quite right when carb was rebuilt. Or wrong gasket was used. Something along these lines. I have never completely closed my low jet but I imagine it doesn't close 100% but when you do your blip make sure you are only using partial throttle to blip. 50% or less as the high jet will come in at full throttle and that could skew things...
@@JustOutHereTinkering Hey thanks so much for taking the time to reply and sharing your thoughts. I'm about 90% certain that this guy's carburetor probably hasn't been rebuilt. I suspect he has less than 100 hrs on the motor and other than his instructor messing with it a year ago I don't think he has touched it... pretty sure he bought the motor new. At any rate, I bet he was "blipping" it to full open and that is something I wasn't aware of, but kinda makes sense. Appreciate it~
Excellent vid bro. You have a good grasp on tuning. I'll add just a tid bit. I only make one adjustment via the low screw. Once in the summer for my summer temps setting where it's typically 90 degrees + here in south Louisiana with a humidity of 80-95% average. And once again to another adjustment in the winter when we see significantly lower temps and humidity. So the low screw only moves from say a 12 oclock position to a 2 oclock position. This is all the adjustment I make. Going from winter to summer setting of course I go leaner on the low screw. Going from summer to winter I go richer on the low screw. Once again this is only a 10% move of the screw. You will know in summer when it's time to make that adjustment because you will look at your exhaust like you mentioned at 5500rpm and if it is shaking back and forth and not rock solid for a 30 second hold....it's overly rich and your engine is running rough. Time to lean it. In winter you will have a hard time starting and then if you add throttle on a rev up before flight she will just bog out and the engine may kill,die on a rev check. It wants fuel. That's when I open the low and go back to winter setting. Give it a try, When I do this at the flying field it's a quick 2 minute adjustment and I'm on my way. No need to over tune or spend hours getting it just perfect in the backyard leaning on the shed. One quick adjustment of the low, don't touch the HI and go fly. Hope this helps, Fly safe!
Thanks!
Your suggestion would absolutely work when you are already close on the adjustment. This should be all most people need to do. My high jet was over 2 turns out when I started and it is currently 1 1/8. It had to come in 1 full turn and I'm still on the rich side with my adjustment. I needed quite a lot of leaning out!
I like that chromed Vortex aero (?) exhaust.
@@Les__Mack that's just the OEM Factory R exhaust
Wish more pilots could see this video. Soo many are hung up on not touching the high, which is ridiculous. I had my high tuned before my first flight, but I have 30+ years of rc experience.
Thanks man! I don't understand the fear either. Hope I can contribute to people looking at it differently.
thanks
@@JustOutHereTinkering
since this past winter i had somthing blocking my carb had to remouver the 2 needle after cleaning i put the back at the advertise possition motor was seriously not running that good yersterday i when at the field and did the tuning now my m185 is running so so SO much nicer not more vibration and no more crazy jump between the L-H jet
That's fantastic man glad you got it fixed!!!
Nice video and love the demonstration of the effects of different settings. The Factory R has the WG37 carb with the spray bar and the Moster 185 has the WG3A carb so have a slightly different transition between the jets. Really enjoyed the video and finding the magic transition between jets has always been difficult to achieve. I made a video on a carb mod to help reduce the jump ( not trying to promote my video, so haven't posted a link). New Subscriber :)
Thank you!
By all means post your link buddy I'll be happy to watch and for others to watch if they are interested!
Great video. Is this another new pap with the factory R ? What size cage? Prop?
This is a Factory R with 150 cage 140 prop, however it's not a freshly new unit. Got it used from a friend, he put 30 or 40 hrs on it.
I want to know why the adjustment they don't want you to touch is the long adjustment screw and the low jet, which you need to adjust when changing LZ altitudes or seasonal pressure changes, is short? Seems like they should be the other way.
Fortunately, my motor is running perfectly with just a small low jet adjustment.
I point to each adjuster with a large red arrow in the 1st 2 mins of the video showing you which is which. Low jet (short one) will be your primary adjustment for changes in altitude or weather
How do you like your PAP? Any negatives since you've owned it? I'm on the fence between the PAP Tinox and the MacFly (either Foldable or Travel cage - all titanium). I've narrowed down my choices to these two brands. I like that the PAP comes with an airbag. Have you ever had a hard landing? If so, how helpful was it? (If I went with a MacFly, I'd probably buy an Acpo univeral airbag for it). Otherwise, I like the teardrop shape of the hoop on the MacFly. No matter which way I go, I want the 150cm cage with the 140cm prop. (All three cages look pretty flimsy. Are they, or are they sturdier than they look? I worry about the prop hitting lines/netting/cage, especially on power forwards - as a newbie).
I can only attest to the Pap, never seen a MacFly (although Chris at Superfly posted a video and mentioned the need for a spacer on the Macfly to avoid the prop hitting the hoop) but my Pap has been great. The hoop is pretty strong when you tension the netting well and it doesn't flex as much as you might think. The current V2 frame is very sturdy and the breakdown is super simple. I also LOVE how easy it is to fuel up. Seeing other people struggle with funnels and squeezing the tank spout into tight spaces looks annoying and makes me appreciate my pap. My ONLY complaint is that the kill switch is just a little too accessible and I hit it sometimes on accident. But I swapped my throttle and no more of that issue. As for hard landings, I never took one where the airbag would be a factor, so couldn't tell you how much it helps, but it doesn't hurt!
Great video Travis number 2 you look so alike your brother thank you.
May I ask where you got the adjustment tool seen at 7:31? I searched Amazon for something similar without luck.
I see, it's just a straight piece thru the hole. It looked like a small tool you slip over the adjustment screw with a bar to facilitate turning. Due to the very limited space, I may have to design such a tool. A 3D printed small tool for adjustment would weigh nothing and could fly in the storage pocket so you always have it with you.
Ya that's just something that was already part of my carburetor. Some have them, some don't and idk why.
Hola sabes cuál es la diferencia entre walbro mpe090 to mfr090 ?
Getting more power higher RPM wears the motor quicker, it’s sort of taking it as far lean as possible. At least if you’re not doing competitions is it really necessary to go to max lean? To make engine last longer running smooth as possible closest to rich side wouldn’t that be healthier for the engine not worrying about RPM’s so much?
If you can not cleanly get to full rpm (which is a range between 8700 and 9000) then you are going to build up carbon and cause issues with your motor.
I'm not telling you to go full lean, my motor revving to 8700rpm is the richer side of the safe range. There are pilots running 9200rpm and that's dangerous. The spark plug should be a nice coffee brown. If it's way too rich it's not good. If it's too lean it's not good. Need to be adjusted properly! It's also about having a smooth power band. If you are too rich your RPM will jump 1000-3000 right when the high jet opens up. This is not good for you flying because you have no control of your power application, and it's not good for your motor either....
I'm getting really really bad fuel economy on my atom 80, what's the best way to tune for better efficiency?
Well that could be due to a few things. Make sure you have a fresh plug in there. Your wing could also contribute to this. But your motor is going to run best and be the most fuel efficient when it is tuned just right. Follow scout's guide for the low jet and make sure your high jet is set within the range vittorazi gives you. If it's pulling clean all the way to max rpm it should be running efficiently as well.
@@JustOutHereTinkering tried a brand new plug as well as various wings. Even with a brand new super efficient viper xc I only get 4.5L/h neutral trim for straight and level flight. Friend with a top 80 gets less than 2L/h on the same wing.
Sounds fine to high RPM to me. You think low jet could be where the issue is?
@Jon ok so i did some looking and the atom 80 isnt the same as the moster... if it were me I would rebuild that carb and then start from factory settings. You can check to see where you are now before rebuilding. Just carefully turn your fuel screw all the way in and count how many turns you go until it stops. You should be 1 1/2 to 1 3/4. You either have something wrong with the carb, an air leak somewhere possibly, or something. I am less familiar with the atom though...
@@JustOutHereTinkering Thanks for the advice. But you definitely think the issue must be the carb?
So what’s your final setting on the high screw?
I ended up at 1 1/8 out
I can't restart mine like that once it gets fully warmed up. I'll pull and pull but nothing. What could that be a symptom of?
Check and see if you still have solid fuel in the lines after you shut it down and attempt to restart. Could have a bad check valve in primer bulb causing fuel to vacate the line. Could also be an air leak developing when everything expands from being hot. Have you rebuilt the carb and if so how long ago? Also make sure your gas cap is venting and allowing air in
@JustOutHereTinkering I've changed the bulb because it has a crack in it. It seems to flood after it's shut down.
@@edwalker2790 then you either need to rebuild that carb or replace it entirely. Whichever suits you, but there is definitely an issue inside the carb
@@JustOutHereTinkering Roger. I've got all the parts in hand.
Hej, dzięki Twojemu filmowi udało mi się ustawić gaźnik! wielkie dzięki. Before:ua-cam.com/users/shortso0VSj4YjIO4 after:ua-cam.com/video/iFV8p3IvD6s/v-deo.html
Glad I could help!!!
Lehtos law covered the warranty stickers, its fake and does not hold up in court for the do not remove stickers.
Tuning your Moster without a cht is very foolish.
At least I didn't block you and remove all your comments from my channel 🤣