Have any of your heard someone say that when you bend down before the tree to pick up presents you are worshipping the tree? I have. I know it’s easy to be snarky at such comments and ideas but here’s a few thoughtful responses. 1) Where does the Bible say that every time you bend down you are worshipping? 2) When I bend down to pick up a toddler am I worshipping the toddler? 3) Doesn’t worship require intent?Wouldn’t God be offended by worshippers who merely bent physically but didn’t actually intend to worship Him? 4) If that doesn’t count as worship in other contexts how can it count as worship when it comes to trees? 5) Would you be ok with someone having a Christmas tree if they promise not to bend down while facing it? 6) False worship is a serious sin but isn’t it also a sin to falsely accuse someone of worshipping a tree merely because they physically bent down to pick something up? Nobody needs to have Christmas trees. But we also have no need to be divisive over them.
What about the hymns dedicated to a tree? (O beautiful Tree) However, sometimes we can be biased. The fact that the world likes Christmas, but not the Cross, as well, makes me wonder much about its authenticity. Although we have no trustworthy sources, Christmas, the way everyone celebrates, appears to have a real pagan connection. *Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe, and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace. Therefore, as soon as they heard the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, and all kinds of music, all the nations and peoples of every language fell down and worshiped the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up." Daniel 3 This sounds a lot like what happens in the world with Christmas. Even the date when Jesus was born is not right.
@@alexanderstephen1567 I’ve always felt like if a whole lot of people are doing certain things, then I especially should question it. Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
So for the most of Christian history no one celebrated Christ birth with all this fluff and flesh. Not the apostles nor early church fathers. But all of a sudden because of a legend attributed to Martin Luther and other “traditions of men”, we now make up symbols and traditions that are not exactly Spirit led or biblical in pretense to worship the coming of our King? We protested Roman Catholic abuses already. One of the original intent of the day was to provide an alternative to the pagan festivals of converts. Early evangelicals rejected it. It was more know for excessive drinking and etc..Christmas as we know it is a Modern phenomenon. We already have a tree in symbol of eternal life …..it’s called the cross…A tree that Jesus died on to give us life Not a heaven or hell issue but just baffling the loops we jump through to defend our flesh sometimes More than just Christmas there are a lot of other fluff we need to purge our churches of just like Christ flipping over the money tables in the temple. We can worship His coming without all this other suspicious fluff. And let’s not forget that God doesn’t accept all worship. Some things are strange fire to Him (Lev 10:1-3). If you like evergreen trees and lights and elf ears, stockings, gifts and etc… then feel free to do that anytime of the year. Just let’s not pretend it’s in worship to the Birth of Christ. Love you Mike and greatly appreciate your work for the Kingdom. May God bless you and your family and ministry. You’ve been a great help to me. Christmas isn’t the most important issue but since it ‘tis the season thought I’d comment lol
I was radically saved by God's extreme mercy during a near death experience in 2016. That being said, I've questioned how fleshly Christmas seems to me now. I still participate, and try to use it to lead my family to the cross of Jesus. I felt I had 2 choices, to stop participating in the fleshly part of Christmas, which would likely make me seem like I'm holier than thou, or continue to participate and adjust my focus to Jesus. We live in such a wicked and fallen world, and we have to meet people where they are at I think. I now pray the gospel over our food Christmas Eve, which I never did before I was saved, etc. Christmas also presents more time to love on people that need that love of Christ. I will do whatever God convicts me of, or try my best, but although I question Christmas, I certainly don't feel convicted to completely cut ties with it, and certainly not cut with the tree...lol I may have to get rid of my Santa Clause figurines though, because those are definitely a deceit from the enemy to take the focus off Christ. Thanks for all you do for the body of Christ Mike :)
““For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. “Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, And instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, And it will be a memorial to the Lord, For an everlasting sign which will not be cut off.”” (Isa 55:12-13, NASB)
To my brothers and sisters who desire to keep the Torah: I’ve been there. For years I was consumed by guilt for not keeping the Law well enough. It wasn’t until I was a father that I realized the Law had served it’s purpose in my life. It stood between me and the Father and I was found guilty. It is only by the grace of God that I, through the blood of Christ, am forgiven of my sin. It’s not through adherence to the Law. The Covenant at Sinai revealed the will of God and it was Holy and good. Yet, Christ fulfilled that covenant through his death on the cross. Now, God’s moral Laws continue not by virtue of being written in stone and not as a covenant of works. As a covenant of works it condemns us rightly so. But as a Christian it sets the Father’s will before our eyes and shows us what is good and right. My Torah-keeping brothers and sisters I say the Torah is good, all 613 commands are holy and good. But here’s something to remember for the average gentile Christian. I’m not the Jew to whom God gave the covenant and the promises. I’m not the stranger who bound himself to Israel and joyfully accepted God’s commands. I’m the pagan whom Christ sought out in the far corners of the world. The wicked sinner for whom Christ died. And I will not boast in anything, save the cross of Christ. I say this as a plea: you love the Torah. Good. Keep it. Take joy in God’s holy days and His commands. But please don’t be arrogant toward the gentile, the pagan whose only plea is the precious blood of Christ.
I’m not sure teaching the Torah of Truth is arrogant, unless you believe the writers of the Bible are arrogant. Obeying the Word seems to be a constant theme through the Bible.
Was in full agreement until you told them to keep the law. The law is for children not for sons. We are sons who worship God in spirit and when you reject the freedom Christ gave us to go back and try to serve under the rudiments of the world you place yourself back under the curse and trample under foot the Son of God. Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Gal 3:12a And the law is not of faith: Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
@@BodyofChristChurch48 we obey because we love God. 2 John 6. We were always to obey God in Spirit and Truth, not of our own flesh. It’s not complicated. Love God. Obey God. Man tries to complicate it.
Actually, here in Germany the tree came/comes with the symbolic meaning: Traditionally it is decorated like this - we have red balls, candles and stars The green of the tree means: hope and life the read balls stand for: the fall in the old testament (the fruit) The stars remind us of: the birth of christ (star of Bethlehem) And the candles are symbolic for: christs death and resurrection, with he brought light in our lives/world again I don't know, but that's what i was taught the tree comes from, it's because of the symbolic meaning, christians gave it long time ago.
But you know that it is a" baptized practice", right? In Germanic and Proto-Germanic cults, trees and sacred groves are revered and are sites for sacrifices. A small reminder of Sanct Bonifatius, who converted the Chatti people to Christianity by having their sacred trees cut down, especially the Donar oak near Fulda. Trees and the spirits of the forest play an important role in almost all Germanic legends and fairy tales. The Eller, the Erlkönig, fairies, gnomes... In the German national epic, it is a tree that judges Siegfried's arrogance. It is a linden tree that drops its leaf on Siegfried's shoulders as he bathes in the dragon's blood. In mythology, the linden tree is associated with the goddess of justice and love. With this linden leaf she ensures a very cruel justice. It will be his wife who betrays his vulnerable spot to the enemy. So yeah, Luther on one hand was a firm believer in malefits and witchcraft on one hand but than took a very witchy thing to make a new tradition.... I don't buy that. It is more likely that the Christmas tree comes from the mystery plays that were very common in the run-up to Christmas and the Easter Lent before the Reformation. The story of the fall of man was often told there with a decorated tree. The reformers had difficulty with any kind of theater. It was too vulgar, too lewd for them... under certain circumstances people would have fun. So in the Protestant areas of Germany only the tree remained. While the Counter-Reformation and the Jesuit theater became more popular in southern Germany and the Rhineland, I don't think there is a Catholic community that doesn't put on a proper nativity play.
@@NoSabine don’t ignore what this man said in the name of some article or video you found online. What he says is true, it is merely a modest celebration of Christ, or at least WAS, paganism is long dead and Christmas didn’t become a holiday until the medieval times, long after Christ vanquished the hearts of the dark Europeans. As primarily a American of Scandinavian and German descent, it is absolutely, and simply, a silly tradition that people love to do before they celebrate Christ, and everything about the Christmas Tree has a biblical representation, at least in a home descended of the first few hundred thousand Protestants. People made or bought (or sold) wooden ornaments because they couldn’t afford metal ones or couldn’t make metal ones. We are not worshipping any false idols as we celebrate Christmas anyways. The only thing heretical or sinister in Christmas is the whole Santa crap, and big tech taking advantage of our celebration of Christ for themselves. People from originally Catholic or Anglican homes probably do have more darker origins for their celebration of Christmas, though.
@@bobdowney5109 in homes that follow their Protestant ancestor’s traditions, yes it is true. My grandparents did the Christmas tree for modest reasons of course, with Protestant traditions from Scandinavia and Germany. Also, decorating a Christmas tree doesn’t make you a pagan, nor was the tradition for Christmas pagan. That is manipulation used by hardcore secular antichristians or hardcore southern baptists that brainwash themselves by false internet sources lol. Also, don’t fall into that easy trap of thinking of someone like me or the German are just stupid ignorants like some rude people do.
Maybe it doesnt get as much play because of those who celebrate Christmas, a larger population doesnt acknowlege santa claus? But nearly everyone does a tree... just observation, but yes, i think that question should get even more scrutiny among believers (edit: the question about santa claus). My personal opinion on the tree is that many believers dont realize how much of an idol it can be to them. They may not physically bow down to it, but if the abscence of one negatively impacts their mood, or they MUST have one, argue of how to put it up, during this time of year, they may need to lay down some flesh/ repent.
The more you think about it, the more you can ascertain that Santa is the work of Satan. He is omniscient He decides if children should get gifts based on if they are good/bad He is an idol for children and his enticement is material goods Parents LIE to their children about a fairytale man (not to mention the Easter bunny, Tooth fairy) Majority of children look to Santa this time of year, not Christ as the true gift-giver.
It just gets lost in translation. In Germany we set out a boot for st Nick on December 6th and the Christ Child comes on Christmas eve with the gifts. The Christ Child "Christ Kindl" then gets turned into Chris Cringle. Kinda reminds me of the tower of Babylon where the languages get mixed up for confusion. As a German and knowing German traditions I'm not too confused about it.
@Methodius of Thessaloniki Well, I blame the Catholics for even considering him a saint (using the catholic definition of the word). For in the New Testament, all believers are called "saints."
You are completely missing the point. The point is that the tree is given divine attributes, which constitutes idolatry. The Israelites who worshiped the gold calf at Sinai didn't pray to it or bow to it, but God still said they corrupted themselves because they gave it attributes and achievements and attributes that were His.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 Didn't they worship the calf for delivering them out of Egypt? As far as I can say for the Christmas tree is that it's a reminder of Jesus, not necessarily saying that the tree was born to die for our sins.
Would you put a Buddha statue in your house as decoration? Hopefully not. So if the Christmas tree is an idol, it would be equally wrong to put it in your house even if you don't pray to it.
I grew up in an evangelical church that could be said to have almost fundamentalist stances, particularly in regards to Christmas. Trees, gift-giving and the like weren't practiced in my house-hold, and so I'm not accustomed to these things. All in all, I think one's personal mindset and motives matter most in whether to have a tree in the house or not. Christmas is about CHRIST and as long as a Christian has their hearts leaning toward that there is no harm in having a decorated tree in your house. Romans 14:5-6a NOT having a tree in the house because of supposed pagan roots doesn't make a Christian "better" or "more spiritual" that other believers.
Christmas was the adoption of pagan festivals that were celebrated by Rome and it's many provinces into a Christian facade to appease the pagans who were supposed to worship Christianity when Constantine made it the state religion. Have you not read in the Bible where GOD told Israel NOT to follow the practices of those pagan nations He was dispelling, not to learn their ways or try to worship THE LORD in that manner? It was JESUS WHO gave the ten commandments to Moses. JESUS is the same yesterday,. today and forever. He doesn't change. Nowhere in the Bible are we told to remember HIS birth, but HIS death, burial and resurrection. The Christmas tree is in Jeremiah 10. Which is more important, tradition or what the Bible says , your choice.
@@williamlugmayer3429 === Isn’t it just a Christianized version of Saturnalia/Sol Invictus? === No. Macrobius’ *The Saturnalia* is our most complete primary source on the festivities of Saturnalia. He records that it was a multi day event of drunkenness, feasting, and exchanging quips from the traditions of the philosophers, where slaves were served by their masters. Mix in some good old fashioned Roman games and sacrifices to pagan gods, and you’ve got yourself a Saturnalia! (*The Saturnalia*, pg. 29-62, pg. 70-73) It was also believed that “the entrance to the underworld is open” during Saturnalia, and warfare and business were postponed, because they were “ill-omened […] ‘black’ days.” (Ibid, pg. 108) Macrobius relates that Saturnalia existed before the Romans, so it’s not even a uniquely Roman holiday. (Ibid, pg. 62) Sol Invictus (properly, Dies Natalis Solis Invicti) was celebrated much the same as Saturnalia. Interestingly, it’s likely that Sol Invictus was created as a response to Christmas, due to the explosion of Christianity in the Roman empire. The cult only became an official religion in 274 AD. The *Chronography of 354* supports this by listing Saturnalia, Sol Invcitus, and the date of the Lord’s birth as separate events, meaning that they weren’t confused by the people celebrating them. Now, while I know Christmas traditions vary, I’ve yet to meet the Christian who offers sacrifices to Saturn on Christmas Day, or one who worships the sun.
@@adrianvarela8890 grace and peace to you as well. I've been studying the Bible and prophecy since 1991. As far as sources, I've read so many over the course of those years, that I wouldn't know where to begin. Suffice it to say, the Bible itself has been my greatest resource for all topics relating to what we should do as believers. History of saturnalia, yule, Babylonian worship are available to the anyone who can go to a library or the Internet. Answer me one question. Where does the Bible tell us to celebrate the birth of JESUS?
@@hydepark1382 was the golden calf the Israelites made evil? Why dont you go tell God He should've proven it was evil first before He made them destroy it Is making a statue of Jesus evil? This isn' the justice court: innocent until proven guilty. When it comes to idolatry the rule is: guilty until proven otherwise. The obsession with Christmas trees is boardering on Idolatry and paganism. It turns out Christmastians got more incommon with Catholics than we thought. Both use idols in their worship.
And there ain't even an apple in the bible lol my Oma also hung Walnuts...not sure what those would be symbolic for lol 😆 better check with Opa if he still has his.
Having a Christmas Tree is like having a fancy book cover for your Bible. It might look beautiful, but not the source of the word. And it doesn't matter if it's there or not. Just a nice touch to make you feel better about the real reason why you have it.
WHY would anybody celebrate Christmas? IT'S NOT IN THE BIBLE, FOLKS!! Gee Mike, MOST of my FREEMASON Satan worshipping pagan neighbors put up a PAGAN Christmas tree for their pagan holiday. Interesting too how you glossed over the verses from Jeremiah 10:2-5, "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. v3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. v4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. v5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Verses 2-5 sure sound like the description of a Christmas tree to me. What bible are YOU using? Lastly, to which Lodge do you belong, Mike, or are you a Jesuit? 'Sounds like somebody has your number!!
So decorate your book cover, sings songs about it, dance around it, invest time and effort every year in it? Stop fooling yourself! It’s idolatry and you know it!
T @yahuchanon37 Thank you...This is why I don't even bother watching Winger videos or even any Christian UA-camr's anymore. I just had to come mainly for the comment section and see just HOW many Apostate Christian's are here and following this guy still. I just can't believe iHe's ALMOST as bad as prosperity Christian's really...The Bible may not call it Pagan, but it is of the Gentiles and we are TOLD to stay away from it as Christians and NOT do as the Gentiles do, by cutting trees down, dragging them into our homes to set them up and decorate with silver and gold. There's only ONE thing that verse can mean and it's a "Christmas tree". I admit I was in the Christmas tree camp up until I was 40...44 now and actually came back after a very long and dark decent after i lost my daughter...to many Christian's....or Protestants hold on to the traditions of the Catholic Church, even after the reformation and they broke away for difference in believes, yet they kept the traditions. The Roman Catholics APPROPRIATED the Gentile/Pagan tradition to get them to convert, tell them they can keep their traditions and we'll celebrate with them, and add in our own ideas...like Christ was born, which we ALL know He wasn't born on Dec. 25th. We don't know WHEN he was born because it's not about the actual day, it's about WHY he came for us. Christianity is not about time and dates...it's about growing closer and back to God in the intimate relationship He wanted with us with that started with Adam. He just wanted to meet with Adam every day and sit and talk with him until the fall. That's what He wants from us...He wants us to come and talk with him and TRUST him with our lives, not on ANY specific day...but EVERYDAY. The Pagans and Gentiles that haven't converted of accepted Christ are the ones that believe on special days. I mean we shouldn't even be using the Gregorian calendar because they're days named after the Pagan gods, but here on earth sadly we have to....I mean we can use the actual Biblical calendar among other Christians, but even sadly Christians can't even agree on THOSE days when when they started and what biblical year we're actually in if you do a dive into YT Christians trying to use and work that calendar. We just need to STOP worrying about earthly days and holidays...even the Biblical Feast days because even those were an abomination to God, seeing the Jews kept those from their time in Egypt. Christian's...just Sit and read your Bible...read it in a quiet room and allow the Holy Spirit to enter you as you read to help you interrupt...pray before reading it and ask the Holy Spirit to help you interrupt what you read and mediate on it. Stop trying to interupt it yourself and post a video about it or what the culture is doing and how they're going against the scripture. We are not to be a part of that...let them do them and we do what God wants...To Be a LIGHT to those in the world around us and just show love even if they slap us in the face.
Jesus Christ Some Religious People Will Just add Lucifer to Anything Won't They? They Said The Same With Dungeons and Dragons for Decades Saying The Game Involved The Devil & Was Demonic. When Really Its Just a Bunch of People In Their Basement Making Up a Quest to Fight Fantasy Monsters. Seems a Lot Of Them Are Too Lazy To Do Research on A Thing they Have No Knowledge On. Their are Demon Monsters but Lucifer Doesn't Exist in The Game Since Its Based in a Fantasy World. You Could Put Him In The Game Since You Can Make up Your own Story & Make Him The Bad Guy
@@RandomManIncorperated There has always been hyper legalistic Christians, that try to create laws where there hasn’t been a commanded law by God. Within the faith, we call those personal convictions. And scripture tells us basically to keep them to ourself, and forbids us to push them on others, since they ARE NOT God commanded laws. Unfortunately people are inherently selfish, including Christian’s and non believers both. So often people corrupt the truth, and seek to add their own way. Being a true Christian, actually means to live aware of these human tendencies, and sins, and actively rage against your own urges in that way. But not all Christian’s are educated on what scripture factually says, and not all have a desire to grow in that way. And so they instead create churches and groups all spouting the same misinformation.
@@jonathanbarkins8480 I don’t care what he/she is claiming I care to know the religion. I am not even paying attention to their assumption I’m focused on something else so keep it pushing and don’t try to worry about what’s relevant for me, thanks ✌🏽
@Methodius of Thessaloniki your comment makes no sense… Jesus said we live by every word that comes from the mouth of God… true Christians stick to scripture and if you have a problem with it, it’s clear you aren’t a Christian. I would love to hear your testimony of repentance towards God and faith in Jesus Christ… when was the day the Holy Spirit convicted you of all your unbiblical behaviour and evil deeds… and you felt sorrow and burdened by all the wicked things you’ve done and you called upon Jesus for salvation?
@@Jesus_Saves_66 I think we must be careful in our thinking towards these traditions- Paul said that all things are lawful , but not all things are profitable. So we don’t want to live like we can do what we want , but the other side is becoming like the Pharisees and having laws for everything- many not ordained by God. Just follow the word snd your conviction
@@deespence8629 I think Paul also said leave the basics of Christianity behind in Hebrews 6. These christmas trees aren't even part of the basics. Paul said that so we can move on to perfection. He meant we focus on helping the needy and preaching the gospel. Tree decoration is not a part of it.
These people often get their arguments from only one side of history and don't realize that two cultures that had no contact could have similar practices
I mean… ultimately, a Christmas tree is just a really goofy lamp to decorate your living room with. If the supposed or actual traditions behind some people who used tree-or-light-based decor offends you on God’s behalf, don’t do it. If it doesn’t offend you on His behalf, you don’t believe the tree DOES anything mystical for you, and you are thankful to God for providing the money and means for a tree, decorations, electricity, house, etc., I’d say there’s no reason for panic. It’s really not much different than putting a lovely, eye-catching painting of a forest in your house or buying some extra lighting fixtures to keep your house brighter during the dark months! God knows “the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Keep your heart right before Him, and trust Him to instruct you with the Holy Spirit if you ought to practice differently.
@@mastergirl922 if that is what you believe, I have no interest in persuading you otherwise. Keep away from Christmas trees, and Christmas altogether- it’s not worth causing schisms among believers. I already made my case for why my conscience is clean on the matter… God bless!
@@violentviolet8867 I’m afraid you misunderstood what I said; I would never advocate “follow your heart.” I said, first, to make sure your heart is *right* before God- to examine oneself, to be sure that one’s doctrines come from Scripture rather than from worldly “wisdom” or Pharisaical legalism- and second, to be open to the conviction and reproof of the Holy Spirit in the case that there is some misunderstanding or ignorance of His will. These things have to be understood first before any “Christian liberty” is considered. My handling of this issue comes from the exhortations of 1 Corinthians 8, the whole chapter from beginning to end. Perhaps my original comment neglects to emphasize the verses 9-13 portion of the teaching, but I believe the “self-control in front of others” portion is just as important as the liberty portion. I have no more to say on the matter. God bless!
"For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." - Gal. 5:13 🤔 "The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God." - Rom. 14:6 🤔
Brothers, we all have freedom in Christ. So many of us get caught up in rules (aka law) because we are scared of the abuse of freedom. If you decide to celebrate, celebrate in the freedom and in love to your fellow man. If not, do so in freedom and in love to your fellow man. Christ is king and he is being remembered in this season. Merry Christmas!
@@mequint2000 that IS the context. Tell me then, in the book of Esther when they chose the entire day to fast, who was it unto? Themselves? A holiday? No. This passage is about fasting that's why it's talking about eating and abstaining. Tell me now, when you are "abstaining" a man made holiday (Christmas) you're not doing it for the Lord. You're still eating and drinking. My eyes went to the first part "The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord". I made this assumption on a post on Facebook and was corrected by a sister in Christ that the CONTEXT is about fasting. I had to read it again, and guess what? She was right.
I just keep thinking about how God is very specific about how He wants to be worshiped and not how we want to worship Him. Syncretism isn’t something I feel He is fond of.
I just always find it interesting that the early settlers in America came (partially) to not have to celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan roots. Yet this new wave of information hundreds of years later (that came to combat Christian claims of Christmas having Pagan roots) suddenly sweeps the internet over the past couple years. I just find that funny. Christmas was actually banned in America for generations until the play “A Christmas Carol” was discovered by the newer generations and grabbed them by the heart with nostalgia and tingly feelings & made them want to participate. That part of history hasn’t changed on the internet… yet.
Some of best Christmas memories are decorating the tree with my siblings. These memories are more precious than all the gifts I have or ever will receive.
People need to get real jobs and real lives instead of trolling the internet spreading false information regarding Christian celebrations. It truly is stupid, and I totally agree with Mike Winger.
The origin of most of the things in Christmas are in fact pagan. The funny thing is none of these things are in the bible or even in the books of the bible that are non cannon. You will only find the origins of these so call Christian traditions in pagan origins,
Is it freedom? Are you free to celebrate the antichrist system? Or are brothers and sisters shaking people that are sleeping in the light? Tell me what you know about the mass I want to hear it. Nobody is brave enough to do it maybe you’ll be the brave soul. You know the mask that we’re talking about? The Roman catholic mass.
That’s why the world is the mess it is because people like yourself think that freedom is found in rebellion…it’s the truth that sets people free from the lies and how do we know the difference between lies and truth? When we search the Word of God to tell us what He says and when we believe His truth, over the the lies of this world… we will find freedom. Either you’re free from sin, to live for God OR you’re free from God, to live in sin.
But what does it have to do with Jesus? Jeremiah 10:3-4 (NRSV): " For the customs of the peoples are false: a tree from the forest is cut down, and worked with an ax by the hands of an artisan; people deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move."
I have a few questions I’m hoping to get answered because I don’t know if I should continue celebrating Christmas so I’m not arguing. 1. Why do we celebrate Christ birth on the day that is not his birthday? 2. Why is a Christmas tree needed and where did the idea come from? 3. Who started modern day Christmas because I couldn’t find Christmas in the Bible also where in the Bible did Jesus tell us to celebrate his birth like this 4. If the whole world celebrates Christmas but aren’t believers how can Christmas be about Christ when we do the same traditions non believers do on that day? 5. What is Jeremiah 10 referring to? Hopefully anyone who reads this can help me out because I’ve been asking these questions to family and they just give me opinions with no scripture that I can study. Thanks
Trees may not have much to do with Christmas but as Christians we celebrate the birth of Jesus and to celebrate we want to decorate our homes. We put pretty sparkles on and we put lights on, isn’t Jesus referee to as the ‘light’. We put an Angel on top or a star to remember the Christmas story. We can read all sorts of meanings into anything if we try. It’s just a nice tradition that brings people joy
@@anneharley5319 your not really a Christian your celebrating nimrod's birthday and paganism and not following Christ,if your a follower of Christ your not of this world.if you love this world you follow the transitions of man.remember the Bible word States of not keeping the law what will happen to the heathens.
It's like having flowers or wearing your finest clothes on Easter. It's not a religious object in itself, it's something that makes the time of year more special, which of course should be done with the intention to celebrate and honor Jesus and remember his birth.
That is beautiful, like having flowers just because they are beautiful and perk people up, or wearing nice clothes to church. That is really what is at the heart of all the decorating. To bring joy, to bring festivity, to celebrate Christ. There are lots of pharisees in here, looking to steal joy and look on the downside. Yet so much of how we adorn a tree, w/ a star or angel on top is to celebrate the Christmas story. Many other Christmas customs like garlands, lights on trees all tie to Christ's birth. The star guided the wise men, who gave gifts. This is why we give gifts, and on it goes.
It’s fine to have trees in your house obviously it’s just a tree in your house nothing special about it and your not venerating it but it starts to become pagan if you decorate it as that’s a deliberate act which is pagan (yule and saturnalia)
@@jrh2266 It's all about intention. The tree is part of Christmas tradition and has been for a long time. We dress it up w/ tinsel, lights and stars to remind us of the 3 wise man and the star that guided them. We exchange gifts because the wise man gave gifts. I know there are pagan traditions you can find if you dig deep and set your focus on them. For almost anything we do, we can find some sort of pagan tradition that is similar.
Aaron declared the following day would be a feast day in honor of God after he made the golden calf (Exodus 32:5). Did his intention end up appeasing God, Who would rather we discern between the holy, which are those things set apart of Him, and the profane, which are the things of the world? (Ezekiel 44:23). This is the whole reason He warned the people who genuinely want to worship Him in spirit and truth not to adopt the ways of the heathen (Jeremiah 10:1-4). He knew most would end up being disobedient.
@@free2serve7777 So celebrating Christ's birthday w/ a lot of trappings and decorations that have traditions for Christians is now a golden calf? Romans 14:14 I am convinced and fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. Pharisees who want to crap on Christmas are too much.
All these "Christmas and/or Easter things have pagan roots, so you're really doing idolotry!" People seem to not only have no knowledge or care of history, but none of scripture as well. If we're doing something in our lives for superficial decorative reasons, wouldn't that be the same principle as Romans 14 and not asking whether the food you're eating was sacrificed to idols?
Christmas is about the birth of Nimrod’s son Tammuz who’s birthday was celebrated on Dec 25th. Pagans would dedicate a whole week to celebrate and it was called Saturnalia. The evergreen fir tree was used to pay homage to the phallus worship of they did towards their god Nimrod, the Sun god It has nothing to do with Yahuah or the gospel message about His son, Yahusha Ha’Mashiach.
There is far more to worry about in this season like consumerism, gratitude, greed, gluttony, false God Santa, etc. And many good things to focus on, like family, gifting, serving, connecting, telling stories and lessons to kids, remembering Christ's birth as a celebration. The last thing on my mind is whether a pagan once had a tree 6000 years ago that has absolutely nothing to do with me today.
Tell that to the Lord who made you, who is the same yesterday and today, who hates idolatry and commands against it. It doesn't matter if it doesn't matter to you, it matters that it matters to Him. Love the Lord your God, first commandment.
@@vigilantezack I don't need to speak for God, the scriptures I quoted to you already speak against what you said. I didn't belittle you, why did you belittle me by calling me petty? If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, then why belittle me?
@shamgarcahn9980 you've quoted no scriptures. My comment is that we live in 2023 and whatever a pagan did 5000 years ago with a tree has nothing to do with us and what we do with trees today. Searching history to find if any bad group once did a thing that kind of resembles a thing today is a neverending battle against non-existent boogiemen. If you found out devil worshippers 5000 years ago used to pray to Satan with their eyes closed, would you start praying with eyes open so you don't accidentally worship Satan because that's what they did in the past? Of course not. Don't conflate modern festive decorations with ancient middle east pagans long gone to history. God is not threatened by dead false gods or pretty twinkle lights.
@@vigilantezack Indeed that was your original comment, but what does that have to do with belittling me in your comment toward me? So I didn't quote you scriptures when i said The Lord made you, He is the same yesterday and today, He hates idolatry, and Love the Lord your God? You think I made those things up? Deuteronomy 12:30-31 explicitly says not to worship God the way the heathen worship their gods. Yet that's what christmas is, using pagan traditions to worship God.
Doesn't everyone bow down in front of their loungeroom decorated tree and make sacrifices to Horus and Dionysus? From what I've read on comment threads, it seems this is a common practice now lol The worst that can be said about the traditions at this time of year is that Jesus, in a large portion of the population, has been relegated to an afterthought. But it's also a great time for Christians to take the opportunity to talk to relatives about what Christmas means to them without automatically being shut down. Most people are more likely to attend a church service as well at Christmas- and the Holy Spirit can use that message to break through hardened hearts I think self-righteously shunning Christmas and trees is probably more of a bad witness than good - but that's just my thoughts. Have a blessed Christmas everyone :).
Most people that reject the Way think that God followers are “self righteous”. That has nothing to do with Christmas or trees but with a heart in obscurity. It’s interesting that you put blame on people that doesn’t want to be in the world Christmas parade, than to the fact that most or the world reject God and His way.
You dont need a Christmas tree and lights to be able to share the gospel or share stories about God. Nowhere in the Bible the Disciples first went to go put a Christmas tree up before they could speak to people about God. Y'all behave like Paul burned a few babies with the Baal worshippers to gain their trust so he could share the gospel with them. Paul made it clear he had limits. I wonder if you ultra flexible New Convent followers have? You disable the Holy Spirit when you have to go put Christmas trees up first just to go share the gospel with people. The apostles did it, without gimmicks and gadgets, with just the Holy Spirit on their side. Can we really call ourselves Christian today?
@@stoneyestevan1513 I think you misunderstood my point. Of course you don't need to put up Christmas trees to share the gospel. I do think people seem to be more willing to go to church with you at Christmas though - just a personal observation. And of course, you should take the opportunity all year around to share you faith. Full disclosure, I haven't put up a Christmas tree for about 5 years, but not because I'm against them. Just never got around to it lol
@Blood-Bought & Spirit-Taught These Christians who despise self-righteousness and self-righteous people, have become the very thing they despise so much. Spiritual blindness, and form of holiness but denial of the power of God is all becoming more clear as we near the end...
It's sad to see Christians make excuses for acting like the world. "Romans 12:2 Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect"
That's referring to sinful behavior. What comes to mind for me Are the things that don't bring glory to God, but christians don't bat an eye at.... Wearing tight yoga pants, Dancing in a suggestive manner, Spending money on unnecessary frivolous things when you could be Using those funds to help people.
Seems a lot like the Muslims who think that they need to to dress like Arabs, and anything modern or western is "copying pagans". Romans 12 isn't about clothes or foodstuffs or household decorations. Its about the heart, motivations and right relationships.
I think you are misinterpreting this text. Romans 12 1-2 is talking about true worship. The dedication to living in God's honor. Being different than non Christians.
@@dustiningham3173 You are absolutely BUTCHERING Jeremiah 10 to get Christmas and Chistmas trees out of that. Nobody carves Christmas trees into the shape of false gods or worships them or carries them because they can't walk. Respect the scriptures enough to use proper exegesis. “For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and *a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. Like a scarecrow* in a cucumber field, *their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk*. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.”” Jeremiah 10:3,
I like the anti tree arguments just for the sake of simplicity, anti consumerism/stress. It's a lot of work and a nativity scene is much easier lol. Kids love trees so that's a pro. And then there's the tree of life, light of the world symbolism in some people's traditions. This debate is going to continue until Jesus returns.
Jesus Returns & Says, Jesus: Okay Why Are You Fighting About a Pine Tree! That Is Completely Idiotic and Dumb I Was Born in a Desert That Tree Doesn't Exist There.
I don't even know why I bother to check the comments. 3 videos of why Christmas traditions are _not_ pagan and the comments are just 99.999999% "bUt wHaT aBoUt *thing that was already addressed in the video* ????? MIkE iS a pHaRiSeE." Are you guys literally incapable of paying attention for 8 minutes (even less in the previous two videos)? I hope you all keep that same energy at all church events and all social gatherings. It's not in the Bible, so every birthday celebration, wedding celebration, church event, and social gathering with your friends are pagan and evil and you're worshipping pagan gods somehow. Want to celebrate the life of someone you love on the anniversary of their birth? Too bad - big birthday parties were a common pagan practice, involving lots of drunkenness and promiscuity! Like to light candles because they smell nice? Too bad - everyone knows candles are used by witches and pagans in their rituals! Like to keep potted plants in your house because they look nice and freshen the air? Too bad - pagans sometimes brought greenery into their homes! Your kid is coloring a starry sky in a color book? Punt the child - everyone knows stars are just pentagrams and astrological signs are regularly used in pagan practices! I wish I could see this kind of energy in Christians calling out actual sinful practices running rampant in our churches today.
Where in the bible are we told to put up and decorate green trees man? Are modern Christians so foolish. The OT verses are filled with idolatry that used to take place under green tree. Xmas tree has nothing to do with Christ so it's an idol, full stop
"The Puritan argument against Christmas (and other similar institutions) is three-fold: (1.) No time of worship is sanctified, unless God has ordained it; (2.) unscriptural holidays are a threat to the proper observance of the Lord's day because these holidays tend to eclipse the sanctity which belongs only to the Lord's day, (3.) the observance of unscriptural holidays tends toward the superstition and innovation in worship which are characteristic of Roman Catholicism"
Here's a little known fact. Martin Luther was born in 1483. Martin Luther probably reused an already existing holiday to create his tradition of the Christmas tree. Why do I say this? Because in 1419, a guild in Freiburg put up a tree decorated with apples, flour-paste wafers, tinsel and gingerbread. In “Paradise Plays” that were performed to celebrate the feast day of Adam and Eve, which fell on Christmas Eve, a tree of knowledge was represented by an evergreen fir with apples tied to its branches.
No “probably” necessary in that statement. Mike is just plain wrong saying Luther started it, Luther reappropriated it from the Pagan German Yule tradition
@@narrowistheway77 (sorry in advanced for such a long comment but); Most traditions credits Martin Luther as the first to decorate a Christmas Tree. Though I don't believe he created the Christmas tree tradition itself. What I find really intriguing is that there is a legend that states St Boniface (675-June 5, 754) created the tradition of Christmas trees. According to the vitae Boniface felled the Donar Oak, Latinized by Willibald as "Jupiter's oak," near the present-day town of Fritzlar in northern Hesse. According to his early biographer Willibald, Boniface started to chop the oak down, when suddenly a great wind, as if by miracle, blew the ancient oak over. When the gods did not strike him down, the people were amazed and converted to Christianity. He built a chapel dedicated to Saint Peter from its wood at the site -the chapel was the beginning of the monastery in Fritzlar. This account from the vita is stylized to portray Boniface as a singular character who alone acts to root out paganism. Is was this account that some credit St Boniface with the tradition of the Christmas tree. However, The usage of Christmas trees can be traced back to the fourth century when european pagans were largely responsible for dressing their homes with the branches of evergreen fir trees in order to bring color and light into their dull winters. But pagans weren't the only people to do this. Romans also used the branches for decoration during the festival of Saturnalia. Now here's what I think Mike might be saying. I think Mike is trying to make the argument that German settlers were the first to introduce the indoor evergreen. At the time, people hated this idea so much that In 1659, the General Court of Massachusetts even made a law that celebrating Christmas was illegal. The only thing allowed was church attendance: no decorations, especially trees, should be seen. So how did Americans evolve into Christmas tree fanatics? There's no clear answer, but a few theories stand. One reason that I find the St Boniface one interesting is that This version claims the tree's fall as a pagan symbol turned it into a declaration of Christianity. The tree was then seen as a triangular symbol of the Holy Trinity. Whether or not that's the real reason for the spark of religious interest in the evergreens, the German community began to accept both trees and formal Christmas decorations in the 17th century. It wasn't until the mid-19th century Americans found acceptance for the once pagan symbol in the Christmas holiday. To touch up on your statement about it coming from the festival of yule; They were known as yule trees. This tradition dates back to the pagans and Celts and originally involved the cutting down and burning of a whole tree over the 12 days of yule. This was to help the sun God recover from illness and grow strong again. The winter solstice is a day between 20-23 of December and is the darkest day of the year. It was believed the darkness was caused by the sun God’s sickness and need for spiritual fire and light to help bring about recovery and therefore spring. Later the selected tree was cut down and the trunk or ‘log’ was brought into the home and fed to the fire over the 12 days. After which any remaining wood was stored safely for the following yule. Only in recent times has the yule log become a cake! Take the holly tree for example. Holly was used for decoration throughout homes, hanging boughs of it over entrances to peoples’ homes or as wreaths of holly that were hung on doors. Placing a ring of holly on doors originated in Ireland. Holly, green with red berries, was one of the few plants still beautiful at this time of year. It gave the poor a means of decorating their dwellings. Decorating one’s home with holly was believed to bring protection and good luck to the inhabitants in the coming year. This tradition is believed to originate by the neopagans in Iceland circa 1st century when they built the first temple to the Norse gods. They held a similar winter tradition called "the holly King and the oak King". The Holly King and Oak King are personifications of the winter and summer in various folklore and mythological traditions. The two kings engage in endless "battle" reflecting the seasonal cycles of the year: not only solar light and dark, but also crop renewal and growth. During warm days of Midsummer the Oak King is at the height of his strength; the Holly King regains power at the Autumn equinox, then his strength peaks during Midwinter, at which point the Oak King is reborn, regaining power at the Spring equinox, and perpetuating the succession. They mostly used branches of evergreen trees to decorate their homes during the winter solstice, as it made them think of the spring to come. However, this tradition can be traced even further back in history, all the way to ancient Egypt in the year 2181 BC after the supposed death of the Egyptian god Osiris. They celebrate a form of the winter solstice called "Eid Milad Majid". The Egyptians would have used twelve-limbed palm trees as a symbol of a closed year at the winter solstice. Some people would also decorate conifers and made wreaths as well as garland. This whole tradition started because of a half baked claim that osiris' wife made. When King Osiris died, his wife Isis claimed a full-grown evergreen tree sprang up overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life of the dead Osiris. I believe that it's not the tree that makes it pagan, but what you do with the tree that makes it pagan.
I liked the line about how we shouldn’t sing (hymns presumably) in church because its roots are “pagan.” Remember that when he was “Lord High Protector of England,” Oliver Cromwell - who was a Puritan, I believe - FORBADE singing in churches! 🤨 So, according to a show on the BBC I saw when one time in England, people would gather in pubs to sing hymns and praise God! Kind of fits: from what I’d also heard over the years, “A Mighty Fortress” tune was an old German drinking song, as was “The Star Spangled Banner,” an old English drinking song. The writers “nicked” familiar tunes and changed the words, thank God!
Here’s what I have come to trust: Anything that the world does en masse ( like Christmas and exampled by the tree lighting ceremony at the White House with someone like LL Cool Jay), is clearly not a real way of our Lord and Savior, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. Matthew 7:13-14 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. No where in the Holy Bible does God tell us to observe Christmas. He states His appointed times in Leviticus 23. End of issue for me.
Jeremiah 10:4 Read Jeremiah 10:1-4 And you will see that yes there were pagan practices that involves cutting down a tree decorating it with gold and silver and putting it in the house, they worshiped it as a god. You asked for a scholarly source why don’t we just go straight to the Word of God?
Respectfully saying, the middle finger hand gesture has a well known meaning. Just because I want it to mean "Jesus loves you" doesn't really make it mean that.
It's also about getting smashed off the free booze at the company Christmas Party. And we get angry if Uncle Joe neglected to get our little Timmy a present this year. We do all this under the guise of celebrating Christ's birth.
@@hanzschaggi4254 if that’s not your point, then I don’t understand why we as Christians should care about what the heathen do, I just don’t expect unbelievers to have the right focus on Christmas.
@Wendy K In brief, my point would be Jesus already has holidays all about Him, and the fact the church has changed Commandments to fit their own agendas for whatever purposes. According to one poll, 57% of Americans asked, decided gay marriage is perfectly acceptable and even good. Is Christmas good? In totality I ask, is it righteous? In order for it to be so, it would have to come from God the Father Himself, and instead the actual focus is on Passover. Which one is more Holy? They both can't be, one is of man.
Mike, It seems like you are trying too hard to justify the practice--reaching and defensiveness. Your comment about singing is a red herring. Many have been lead astray from God through the years beginning with the Golden Calf incident. Be cautious and sober-minded in your teaching. Normally, what you have to say is thoughtful, well-reasoned, and Scriptural. Why is this one different? The best and only "fallacy" argument a Christian has is appeal to authority. Please appeal to the only authority there is: the Bible.
You don't even understand the golden calf incident, nothing began with the golden calf. Those humans did not want to worship God only other things so God gave them a symbol of "Earthly things" to worship because that's what they wanted. God said "IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT THAN HAVE IT!" Do not pretend or act like you know God's will because you don't so repent and stop speaking falsities. Lying is a sin.
New sub. Ive been on a search for true biblical teaching. Im chronically ill, bedbound and have given up the church/religion and doctrine yrs ago. I have religious PTSD according to therapist. I fear religion is destroying true faith. But u see Ive always kept my faith in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and the true word, not the rewritten/changed Bible. I was lead here and hope its what I need to keep my deeper study up. I believe the Christiams tree is in the eye of the beholder. Some will see it as ritual, some will see it as just beautiful and fun, etc. Ive never felt it was something to devide us over but should be a coming together. Like u Its fun, beautiful, smells amazing, gives u a happy heart to share with family. Thanx so much, take care, Blessings
Great... but then are you following God/Christ in the Way God wants? The answer to that question has nothing to do with christmas or trees, but with faithfulness and relationship with God. Scripture is His revelation.... so.... I think you should read and study His Scriptures.
"Its fun, beautiful, smells amazing, gives u a happy heart to share with family." I loved that line. Lots of naysaying though and we need to be careful about joy stealing. You're chronically ill and bedbound, and it's sad that people don't want to let you just enjoy some lovely Christmas trappings to brighten your time at home. Enjoy and God bless.
sorry to hear about your PTSD. humans have made a real mess of things, eh? im glad you have kept your faith. be encouraged to keep building on that relationship with God, reading His word- which is the truth- and i hope that one day you will find healthy fellowship with other believers :) may the LORD bless you with His presence
The earliest reference to Christmas trees I found wad just befor Luther and the use of them in medieval paradise plays enacted around Christmas where they use a tree decorated in fruit as a prop in the story of the garden of Eden. Due to the fact that many people could not read and it was a good way to get the bible over to people
I find it ironic that so many pastors will live and die by the Words in the Bible EXCEPT when it comes to things they like to celebrate themselves. INTERESTING.
Thank you for historical context for the Christmas tree. It does not matter what pagan practice and intent was. The tree is a creation of God. For me, the evergreen tree is a useful symbol for the tree of life that Jesus represents. The star and lights are a sign of God`s glory in Christ. The nativity scene and gifts under the tree carry on the tradition of the magi giving to honor the Christ child. Reclaim and transform culture to the glory of God.
So for most of Christianity no one celebrated Christ birth with all this fluff and flesh. Not the apostles nor early church fathers. But all of a sudden because of a legend attributed to Martin Luther and other “traditions of men”, we now make up symbols and traditions that are not Spirit led or biblical in pretense to worship the coming of our King? We protested Roman Catholic abuses already. One of the original intent of the day was to provide an alternative to the pagan festivals of converts. Which is why early evangelicals rejected it. It was more know for excessive drinking and etc..Christmas as we know it is a Modern phenomenon. We already have a tree in symbol of eternal life …..it’s called the cross…A tree that Jesus died on to give us life Not a heaven or hell issue but just baffling the loops we jump through to defend our flesh sometimes More than just Christmas there are a lot of other fluff we need to purge our churches of just like Christ flipping over the money tables in the temple. We can worship His coming without all this other suspicious fluff. And let’s not forget that God doesn’t accept all worship. Some things are strange fire to Him. If you like every green trees and lights and elf ears , stockings, gifts and etc… then feel free to do that anytime of the year. Just let’s not pretend it’s in worship to the Birth of Christ. Love you Mike and greatly appreciate your work for the Kingdom. May God bless you and your family and ministry. You’ve been a great help to me. Christmas isn’t the most important issue but since it ‘tis the season thought I’d comment lol
Seriously, I have felt like the Lord has been talking to me the last 2 days concerning this. We have made some interesting assumptions about pagan practices and how Christians have adopted (appropriated) pagan cultural celebrations and items. With the Christmas trees, it seems to come down to purpose. The tree itself is not pagan or Christian, it how it is used. Thanks for posting this.
So is it ok for me to bring tarot cards, a goats head w/ some goats blood in a chalice and a pentagram into my house? It would be a great conversation piece during pot luck dinner when I have house church.I have zero intention to use these items for worship or celebraration. Don't you agree?
@@rjthomasindyusa do your research on those items and let me know if they were designed for specific pagan purposes. Apparently the tree has not been, but I am still researching. Do you know of any Christians that bring those items you mentioned into their homes? Are you going to avoid eating chickens because they too were used in Santaria?
@@thehotcorner3337 So you wouldn't find it 'unbecoming' of a Christian to have those items your house? I thought we were called to "come out of her" and to "set ourselves apart'? Aren't we told to "shed light onto darkness" and "avoid the mere appearance of evil"?
@@rjthomasindyusa I don't think you answered my question. I would not personally have those items in my house, but again most of what you mentioned were items specifically designed and intended for certain types of worship. Again though, some items are very universal and unaffiliated and some are not.
@@thehotcorner3337 A rabbits foot was not designed to be pagan, but I won't hang it on my mirror for good luck. Nor will I pretend that it will please God if I give it a "Christian" meaning. Maybe it symbolizes the soon return of Jesus because rabbits are quick. I could come up with lots of things, you probably get the point. Maybe the Christmas tree should be called superstition rather than pagan because the latter is debatable.
For what it's worth I remember reading in grade school that the Hessians brought the tradition of Christmas trees to America during the American Revolution.
2 Timothy 4:3 ~ For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. You better clean your itching ears and get some sound doctrine.
I'm a former witch who actually worshipped the earth. Trees were instrumental in the worship practices I performed. As a Christian, conversely, Christmas trees are a direct correlation to my past, along with wreaths and mistle toe as those are also integral to winter solstice wheel of the year stuff that I was familiar with. We don't have those things in our home. Because I'm a weaker brother, not because those things are inherently sinful. We can eat meat sacrificed to idols because these things aren't anything. So, that's what I teach my children. I also don't tell others what their convictions ought to be.
Because of your background, I fully support your decision to not have Christmas trees and other of the trappings of Christmas in your home. Thanks be to God for delivering you out of witchcraft, and thanks be to God for giving you such a gracious attitude.
In one church I attended an older lady sang in the worship team. Week after week she came onto the stage with her walking stick decorated with flowers. That's all it was, but I saw a pagan symbol. I'm sure I was the only one. On the other hand using a cornucopia as part of Thanksgiving decorations is certainly pagan. Evergreens for Christmas/Yule/Solstice are somewhere in the middle.
Literally Nothing. The Place Where He Was Born Pine Trees Aren't Native to it Palm Trees are what he Would of Been More Familiar with. I Mean Who The Hell Finds a Pine Tree in The Desert?
Don’t fool yourself doing silly jokes and making fun of people who know the Christmas tree comes from a pagan culture even if they don’t have the full information, The Roman church still has a lot of paganism inside and they remain the symbols and meanings even if we want to look the other way.
Not taking sides on this currently, but I find it interesting that most will defend Christmas with all their might, but then claim that the Father’s appointed times (Passover, Trumpets, Tabernacles, etc.) are unnecessary and shouldn’t be observed
Kinda disappointed with Mike on this. I waited over a week before saying anything so I could think and pray. 1. No mention of the scripture in Jeremiah at all........ 2. The historical practices are easily found sourced so I have no idea why he said that he couldn't find good sources. 3. Luther lived late in 1400's. He most certainly wasn't the first to come up with Christmas trees I have no real problem with trees despite all I mentioned because I'm not legalistic nor am I some high priest. I just wish he would acknowledge the real reasons some are opposed to the idea and went from there instead of taking a crap on those oppositions and ignoring the scripture in Jeremiah.
Bringing greenery into the home as a way to honor mother nature and hope for spring is ancient, and stems from the worship of creation. You do not have to praise something for it to be counted as pagan worship. Just look at the modern pagan movement of nature worship and green witches to see how innocent and harmless these practices appear. Exodus 23:24 says: "you shall not bow down to their gods nor serve them, nor do as they do, but you shall utterly overthrow them and break their pillars in pieces." And in the Hebrew, it means: 1. You shall not bow down or revere 2. You shall not do any work or service 3. You shall not do any deed, act, or participate in any product as simple as eating a loaf of bread in connection with any pagan ritual The tree has countless pagan ties, and every argument defending Christmas and pagan traditions is, "But it's fun, God created trees, God wants us to have fun, and Jesus!" God also created the fruit that Eve was forbidden to eat. Just because God created trees doesn't mean we can excuse our use of God's creation as a means to participate in ancient pagan traditions with joy. The scriptures are full of the Israelites doing exactly the same thing, and God punishes them severely. You can't deny the pagan roots of Christmas traditions. The Catholic Church admits that their whole purpose behind most of the holiday traditions in the church is to make vague events where you could just as easily worship the sun god as you could Jesus, and everyone would coexist peacefully. That is the purpose of Christmas- to give the pagans a way to continue to be pagan, and give Christians a way to put Jesus onto popular pagan holidays. Win-win, except it's syncretism and it doesn't work. We can't redeem things. We aren't Jesus.
in that case, you better not have any houseplants. That ficus is the embodiment of sin apparently. You cannot seriously think bringing plants into your home is pagan.
@@ryantannar5301 I don't think having a houseplant is pagan. But look into elemental spirits- houseplants are definitely used for pagan purposes. Difference being- the only reason to cut down and tree, bring it into your home, and decorate it, is to celebrate Christmas. Bringing evergreen boughs into the home during the winter is an ancient pagan practice as a way to pray to mother nature to bring spring back. If you don't believe me, look into Nordic and Celtic yule practices and green witches.
@@ryantannar5301 This is an extremely poor argument, as Christmas trees are erected for the sole purpose of being given divine attributes. That is a far cry from simply decorating a home with a houseplant.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 it's a perfectly valid response to the above comment. The user above states that bringing greenery into the home is pagan. That's not the argument most people make, which I why I'm so surprised. I see what you are saying and you are making the more common argument, but the above user literally states that it's pagan to bring plants inside. I'm sure that's a fairly unique take
It’s not about what you “think” it’s about what the Word of God says and the Word of God says clearly not to be conformed to the world and not to participate in any traditions that are not found in scripture… so please tell us all who you are doing this according to? And why you are trusting in your own wisdom, above God’s Word 📖
Lies. Scripture NEVER says that any tradition that isn't in the Bible is "conforming to the world". Utter, despicable, filthy lies. You are eisegeting some IFB or Jehovah's Witnesses nonsense into the Bible instead of exegeting what Scripture actually says. Pastor Winger made the scriptural case and you can rudely disregard it and remain ignorant if you like, but just know that that's what you're doing.
Chanukah isn't a Levitical feast and wasn't in the scripture at the time of Jesus, yet he celebrated it. It was a tradition. Food for thought on your assertion.
I think you're right. I'd rather not involve myself or try defend something that I am not 100% sure about. My own understanding of this matter is very clear though I know after a lot of researching that Christmas is a pagan holiday.
So we can't go to a Fourth of July parade since that's not in scripture? We can't wear a gown and cap at graduation or go to a class reunion? Can't have birthday cake? How about the countless unique family traditions that every family has that aren't found in the Bible?
Mike, I’ve watched many of your videos. This is the first time to ever comment. I disagree with you on this one (including your Halloween views). Holidays are traditions of men. The birth, death and resurrection of our savior Jesus Christ is in my heart and soul everyday as his blood washes ours sins by the minute. I don’t need a tree, “time of season” or a cross to be reminded of these things. My advice, examine yourself, put your feelings to the side, and go back to the Bible. Love, Dee
No holidays/feast are very Biblical especially to the Jews used for remembrance of what God did for them for generations to generations especially since the “Bible” wasn’t readily available to the masses. Traditions are a tool for remembering not to be elevated or worshiper higher than God.
Hear what the Lord says to you, people of Israel. This is what the Lord says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the heavens, though the nations are terrified by them. For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field, their idols can not speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.” Jeremiah 10:1-5 NIV I find it interesting that he never mentioned this scripture. I've pointed this scripture out to people who were smart enough to be able to read and understand what the LORD is saying, but they refused to. They just have this look in their eyes that tells you that they know and understand, but they are blinded to the truth because they would rather believe the lie. I understand this because I used to be that way. I've also learned that there is no amount of arguing God's truth that will convince them or change their minds. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. So now I just show them the scripture and if they are chosen by God then He will reveal it to them in his time, and if they're not chosen, we'll, if your chosen then you know the end.
Matthew 15:9 KJVS [9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Trees in scripture should never be worshipped “oh Christmas tree oh Christmas tree how beautiful are your branches!” So if Paul says to reject traditions and customs not laid down by the word or apostles do you Mark think you are think still is right?
Oh but CHRISTIANS don't worship Christmas trees lol. Have you ever seen anyone worshipping a Christmas tree? In all honesty? Of course not. Now there are songs written by people that are not great, even Christian songs written by and for Christians can he problematic. Don't sing it. But don't throw away a beautiful tradition that strengthens family and brings them together to celebrate the birth of Christ because of a song written by a single person. How silly
@@TinkerBell-bt6vu no, no Christians don’t don’t bring a tree into the sanctuary. Put an angel on top of it. Now what you got a really ask yourself is why is a tree so important? I think it goes back to Genesis. The serpent in the tree right. And don’t even ask me to try to explain why cursed is any man that was hung on a tree. I don’t know why Native Americans make totem poles. could trees have a religious symbol and context but I think the answer is certainly maybe. But don’t put a tree in my house and Call myself a Christian. Listen, Galatians 4: 10 Colossians 2:8 and 2 thess 3:6 Matt 15:9 I’ll say something about rejecting the traditions that are laid out by the world and not by the word and the apostles. If I got one of the verses mixed up, forgive me, it’s close somewhere around there you get the general drift. Yeah, there’s some mysterious about trees that we as Christians keep away from, Israelites were caught into false worship through Groves,
I don't think anyone truly worships Christmas trees, even a song like that may be used to admire the beauty of it, but at the end of the day it's just a tree. Compare that to how we sing about God from a sincere place of worship and praise for who he is, what we believe him to be, and all that he's done. Have a blessed day.
I went and started reading some comments. WOW, all the different thoughts on this subject. So I am just gonna sum it up for everyone. CELEBRATING CHRISTMAS WILL NOT TAKE AWAY OUR SALVATION. That's as easy as it gets. And if I am not mistaken, no where in the ten commandments does it speak of. God looks at our intent of the heart.
I do not judge anyone for having a Christmas Tree. However, I was personally convicted not to have one to celebrate the birth of Christ. I personally don't see the connection between the birth of Jesus and decorating a tree. Encyclopedia Britannica and the History Channel both site Pagan cultures as decorating their homes to celebrate the everlasting life of their pagan gods. Then, when I read Jeremiah 10 I felt all the more convicted to drop the tradition. It is my belief that the Bible is the inspired, eternal Word of God. So it spoke to the people of the time about false idols, but I felt it also spoke to me in modern time about not decorating trees to worship God (as the pagans did). If you disagree, I love you anyway and I pray you have a wonderful celebration! Hope this post finds everyone blessed!
I think this lines up well with what Paul said about eating food sacrificed to idols... Basically paraphrasing it here, but "don't let it bother your conscience". All things were created by God, Satan didn't create anything. Even if pagans did it once to worship their gods 2000 years ago, so what? Are we worshipping their gods by doing the same, even if we don't intend to? No, because their gods don't exist.
This tradition has nothing to do with food… this tradition is about a celebration that the world partakes in… it’s a celebration that every religion and belief system partakes in… is the Bible not clear enough when it tells you don’t conform to the world, don’t partake of unbiblical traditions, do everything according to scripture 😮 what does Mike and all others who celebrate their own tradition get from self exaltation?
@@Jesus_Saves_66 Paul wasn't specifically talking about food either. What makes Christmas bad to celebrate, even IF it was a pagan holiday originally? If it was(which it wasn't) we took a bad holiday and made it something good, so it should be celebrated. The Bible doesn't say "Do not celebrate any holiday that isn't in the Bible" that's just legalism. It's up to you if you want to. "What does Mike and all others who celebrate their own tradition get" dude, Christmas is a tradition about giving, remembering Jesus' birth. and caring for the unloved. What do you gain from avoiding it is what i should ask. If you don't want to celebrate it, much like the food sacrificed to idols, Paul says "Don't bother your conscience", then by all means, don't celebrate Jesus' birth and give gifts to your friends and family on Dec 25th. But don't push your conscience matters on others. Btw, the idea that Christmas was some pagan holiday stolen by Christians is a myth created to slander a Christian holiday. The closest pagan holiday was Saturnalia, which ended Dec 23rd. There was no Pagan holiday on Dec 25th, even Yule is Dec 21.
““For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. “Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, And instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, And it will be a memorial to the Lord, For an everlasting sign which will not be cut off.”” (Isa 55:12-13, NASB)
Interesting. My question is this. Why are we as Christians more interested in celebrating the Holidays not in the Bible Christmas and Easter. instead of celebrating the Holidays God did put in the Bible. Feast of unleavened bread. Tabernacle the day of trumpets etc., which all speak of Christ coming, death, resurrection and coming again.
I don't think Christmas should be celebrated at all. It doesn't matter whether there's no pagan connections at all; Christmas, I would argue is the symbol of greed.
It’s a celebration. A commemoration. A feast. A remembrance. If you or someone, or anyone, has a problem with greed it will show up in your life all over the place not just at Christmas time.
Sir, I don't know if you are a Christian but if you are I would remind you that Judas also thought that spending all that money to just dump an entire bottle of highly expensive perfumed oils(think high end limited edtion real french perfumes available today) on Jesus' stinky feet was excessive, overindulgent, pointless, and down right irresponsibly wasted. Scripture even mentions that Judas dared to arrogently complain these resources could have been given to the poor(ppl it seemed he thought it would more responsibly have been donated to). So... remember, God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, nothing done in His honor is ever wasted. Only once a year is His birthday so while we Christians give our whole lives and resources to Him every day, or that is to be the Christian endeavour, only on Christmas do we take special time across all denominational lines including even millions who don't profess Christ, to honor The King of Kings when He stepped down from His throne to aide mankind in OUR mean estate. Merry Christmas to you sir. May the love and hope that came that first Christmas, warm and strengthen your heart which like the Grinch's was 2 sizes to small when you wrote this comment.
This coming from someone who also has said that Easter is his Passover and that we can go against God's Laws by teaching we can eat food God has called an abomination. All this defending Christmas(not in the bible). Where is the same passion for God's Holy Days(in the bible)? Ezekiel 22:26 “Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them. Ezekiel 44:23-24 “And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. “In controversy they shall stand as judges, and judge it according to My judgments. They shall keep My laws and My statutes in all My appointed meetings, and they shall hallow My Sabbaths. Mike, I have enjoyed watching you in the past..me and my husband saw this passion in you for God that I loved but then we saw the errors and its hard to ignore.
Their is nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas not everyone celebrates a child's birthday on the exact day due to work and other things. Christmas is a celebration of Jesus and being with those we love we give gifts to each other because we are happy and are blessed by God to have the income to do so . My 3 kids know that Jesus is why we celebrate Christmas we read the Bible at Christmas of the Nativity and make a nice meal and watch the Nativity and listen to godly Christmas music theirs no Santa nonsense theirs no elf on the shelf nonsense. Our Christmas is god centered yes I decorate my tree I love the lights and it's simply just pretty . For those who don't do anything for Christmas ok that is on yall but don't try to say someone isn't a true Christian because the celebrate Christmas. God knows our hearts he knows why we do what we do it's his job to correct us if theirs a need to.
There is no Christmas in the bible nor a christmas tree and no Santa Claus, it is so simple as one and one is two. The bible is God's word and truth, no fairy tales.
If you fight so hard bc you don’t want to let it go, despite its pagan origins, has it not become an idol to you? If you have pleasure in unrighteousness, do you not open yourself up for deceptions? Do you not make stumbling blocks for your children? COME OUT OF BABYLON ❤
Unfortunately many people are destroyed for lack of knowledge because the reject knowledge that doesn’t agree with their unbiblical desires… but instead of repenting for their sins, they don’t want to lose them, so they defend them… why do so many people reject the truth of God, that was given to set us free 😮
Christmas isn't pagan cause Winter Solstice and Saturnelia don't even fall on the 25. If celebrating Jesus' birth is pagans why did not only the angels in heaven celebrates his birth but even the Shepherdsville who saw the star of Bethlehem celebrate his birth by giving baby Jesus You can read the story of Jesus' birth in Luke
At the very least the "fake" Santa Christmas with all its secular songs is a distraction from the "real" Christmas. I have a question that you love to ask on other issues; Does this glorify God? Will the Santa story be in heaven? Do reindeer have an eternal position in heaven? WWJD abput Santa?
Jesus will be burning Santa in the lake of fire for trying to usurp his authority. I burned all my Santas and other spiritual things when I become a believer. (No one told me. Obvious conviction from the holy spirit that I obeyed, one that is reasonable enough that even if God didn't sent the holy spirit it would make sense.) So I got some foretaste of the enjoyment Jesus will experience when he comes back.
@@XeenMusic Jesus: How Can I Come Back? My Ashes Are Completely Gone, Leave Me Be I've Lived a Long Life Already I Don't Want To Come Back My Job Is Done
Deuteronomy 12:29-31. God does not want us to worship him the way "pagans" worship their gods. IF the Christmas tree does stem from pagan worship of another god, then it should not be incorporated into our own worship. For me, I don't see the connection with a Christmas tree and Jesus, which is enough to not do it. However, go ahead and lookup the Saturnalia Tree, as this festival appears to have occurred during the exact same time, with a tree brought inside and everything. The similarities are striking. Combine this with no biblical command to observe Christmas, that's plenty for me. Another great resource is The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop. Published well before the internet, he does well to document many pagan things incorporated into Christianity. So I don't think you can call it a modern day internet conspiracy theory.
It’s a matter of opinion and this isn’t a salvation kind of issue. But: some of us prefer to err on the side of the most conservative interpretation of Scriptures. In that sense, not engaging in the so called “Christmas spirit” is a better way to go. It isn’t Phariseism to be conservative in this issue.
@@jasonnoble7302 Not "interpretations" of aLL or any parts of the Bible, though. There are some bits where cultural interpretation comes into play, or personal response/opinion regarding the personalities of the writers of scriptures or those they describe.... But there are also stated facts and recorded events of history, that are clearly stated truths, that are not requiring any interpretation or opinion. With these truths, one either believes and accepts them as Truth, or one rejects the Word of God.
And that is the song that will be played in movies. Not "holy night", not "what child is this", not "God rest ye merry gentlemen". It's all about the tree, it's all about "sandy claws" and his "little helpers" There is no "Christ" in "christmas"
It's not required to sing that song if you don't think it's appropriate. Just because a song is about Christmas doesn't mean it is appropriate for Christians to sing. I personally dislike "Santa Baby", for example, because it seems greedy to me. "O Christmas Tree" has never been a favorite of mine, and I rarely heard it growing up or now. I grow fonder of songs truly about Christ and listen less to songs about the season or Santa (not that I think they're all bad). As Christians, we have to be discerning about everything, and that includes how we celebrate Christmas (if we choose to do so). Don't sing songs that have words and themes you disagree with or are uncomfortable with. Thinking through each thing we do and making sure it honors Christ as we intend is good.
For those saying we aren't told to celebrate Jesus' birth, we also aren't told NOT to celebrate his birth either. If celebrating Jesus' birth is pagans why did not only the angels in heaven celebrate his birth but even the Shepherdsville who saw the star of Bethlehem celebrate his birth by giving baby Jesus presents. You can read the story of Jesus' birth in Luke
Boy it didn't take long for the comments and replies to get crazy 🤣 🤣. 0:23-0:28 sums up the internet and trolling in a nutshell 🤣 🤣. Nevertheless, excellent work Pastor Mike, I often thought that even if decorating trees was pagan it's the purpose that matters not just the act. Also, I would love to see you go over that history of some people thinking that drums where evil, I'm only vaguely familiar with that.
My house is surrounded by evergreen trees covered with snow. It's very Christmasy as well as beautiful.. I don't bring one in but I can see why other people do to bring Christmas inside with them. Evergreens symbolize where we came from, eternity.
@@robertdouglas8895 Scripture says: These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11 I don't see anything in the Bible about Evergreens symbolizing where we came from, so I'll reject that one.
I literally just opened "Christmas Tree" in the Encyclopedia Britannica and it clearly explained that; 1 - the tree was a practice of ancient Egypt, China and the Hebrews, (likely the stories of the groves) 2 - the first 2 centuries of church leaders shunned the idea of using a tree in celebration of Christ, let alone celebrating the birth of christ. In every case of Mike's arguments in this vid he is NOT THINKING BIBLICALLY nor Reading In Context. He is pretty good on occasion, but this is just evidence that no man is perfect in his theology and we need to be based whole and solely on the scriptures.
And ancient Bavylonians used tables and chairs for their evil pagan worship. Chairs, tables, and even plates and spoons must be abolished in Christian homes immediately.
Play with fire all you want. Someone who truly fears Yehovah would not be seen anywhere near the ways of the heathen. You can spin the man made traditions all you want but it will always be a tradition of man and with that it becomes a danger to us spiritually.
@7:15 “it’s fun, it’s not that deep” I guess you say the same about Halloween too. Nothing is deep nothing has history, nothing has meaning. Lol your spirit doesn’t even look right making a sermon like this, you look really uncomfortable defending something so hard and it’s not even the word of God. Unsubscribed.
@@876Tiffany paul said it was ok for some Christians to eat meat sacrificed to idols because their hearts and minds weren't involved or interested in the worship of that idol. The same principle applies here.
If you have conviction to not celebrate any holidays that's fine. If someone doesn't have that conviction and navigates these holidays wisely then that's fine too. Have a blessed day.
The origin of the Christmas tree isn't Pegan. It was actually made to combat the German pegan belief that Thor lived in a giant oak tree. I think the story went that St. Boniface went to witness to the germans, and chopped down the said tree, and then pointed at a little sapling and basically equated it to the birth of christ. Later I think they adopted the Jewish tradition of candles and began to put candles on the tree, and as time went on and the practice spread, we now have what we have today. That's the history I remember learning at least.
@@marcellofunhouse1234 Insisting that the Bible is wrong doesn't make you right. It simply means you are wrong, and that you will not accept anything that contradicts what you want to believe. Jer. 10 plainly speaks about cutting down an evergreen tree, erecting it, and decorating it as being a heathen custom.
@@dustiningham3173 I think then it comes down to what Mike said. It's about the intent. Jeremiah 10 clearly talks about the vanity of the people doing it, as well as the clear extravagance. If you're doing it in a way to honor Christ, then I don't see a problem.
The true question is....'What would Jesus do?' Based on my knowledge of Christ and His actions in the Bible... I think Jesus would attend celebrations to evangelize... but I don't think He would decorate His house with items that represent pagan worship. I don't see it....
Hmmm. Simple answer.... Yes. Sure seems Mr. Winger didn't use the Bible as a reference...? Jer 10:3) For the customs of the peoples are futile; For it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool. 4) They decorate the idol with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not totter. This might be the most flagrant point i've seen Mr. Winger off theologically. Seems he is a bit too flippant and wanting to dismiss what the Bible clearly says. Sad 🤥
My understanding is the German tradition of lighting trees/ bringing them into the house predates Christianity becoming widely adopted in the region and has either a secular or Germanic pagan religious origin. It’s possible the oral traditional tale of Luther bringing a tree into the house may be an attempt to reconcile German tradition with Christian faith
@@josephpchajek2685 The Bible is explicit. “The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us.” He was born on tabernacles. It’s not symbolic. If you make that symbolic then you must make the entire sentence symbolic. It doesn’t work!
@@josephpchajek2685 No, he DEFINITELY, literally, put the animals on the ark. The flood is definitely literal. To allegorize scripture where there is no reason to creates grace error. Adam was also a literal man. But clearly you know more about it than I do…
@@josephpchajek2685 No. It is present in the New World. It bares fruit every month. Revelation 22:2.. Somehow I knew you were one of those people who do not interpret the fall literally. Somehow….
@@josephpchajek2685 All of creation has been FALLEN since Adam (who you do not believe was a real man who ate from an actual tree). Your logic is bankrupt and I’m finished here.
Followers of Christ like Paul did not put Christmas trees inside their homes. What for? Whose culture are we going to follow? Early Christian culture didn't mention about it. If it was that important, they would have surely told us.
@@julianalutz5078 Yes. That's right. You're talking about things we do need these days. Cars, computers and the internet. No discussion on that. But during the time of Jesus, the apostles and early Christians, did they even talk about the need to put Christmas trees in their homes? Please show me some verses.
@Methodius of Thessaloniki You know, Methodius, I give no thanks to people anymore. When a person has done me a favor I tell, "May God bless you and your family." But I also say, "Thank you so much, Father." For God is where all goodness comes from. "Every good gift and every perfect present comes from heaven; it comes down from God, the Creator of the heavenly lights." - James 1:17 "And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things, at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work." - 2 Corinthians 9:8 We should thank the Creator not the creature. The person, the tree, the crozier are simply tools. Let us also remember that the one we serve is a spirit being. Yet we can serve him by serving his brothers and sisters. Don't look for a tree. Look for people who need help.
@@katie7748 Jesus and the apostles had all the trees available in the world. None of them used the tree as decoration for Christmas. They were busy helping the needy and preaching to people like you who have little understanding about God's will. You on the other hand are so absorbed with your thing that's because you're not a follower of Christ. You're a follower of your own desires.
The Word warns us about traditions of men. Christmas is a tradition of men built upon lies and the world loves it. You can’t mix darkness with light. You can’t mix truth with lies and say it glorifies the Lord. We worship in spirit and in truth. He is the way and the truth.
Absolutely. God also made the gold that his people used in Exodus 32 to (falsely) worship him. His word tells us how to worship him and how not to worship him.
Christmas trees aren't even Christian. Nowhere in Christian dogma does it require a Christian to have a decorated pine tree in his home. So when someone calls them a holiday tree, that is exactly what they are; a decoration to celebrate the Christmas holidays. Nothing more and nothing less.
No mention of Boniface? Supposedly chopped down Thor's oak and pointed out how firs reach up to the heavens to honor God. This apparently happened in Germany.
Jeremiah 10:4 is an example of prophecy being fulfilled. Bread crumbs if you will. The decked tree has become satans tree to exploit. An idol to Greed, arguments, debt, envy. I don't need x-mas to be kind once a year. I try to be kind to others everyday. I don't need a tree in my home to show off my generosity to others. The Christmas mantra is what is bothersome. It's like admitting you can only be good, one day out of the year. That day being the on the birth of Nimrod.
I hope you’ll consider this study of Jeremiah 10. It seems quite clear that it’s not about Christmas trees or anything connected to them. m.ua-cam.com/video/GFhHmj77_rg/v-deo.html
But its not though. You can't take scripture out of context. Jeremiah 10 has absolutely nothing to do with Christmas trees and shouldn't be used to condemn your brothers and sisters who love Jesus and celebrate His birth and use Christmas as a time to bring family together and tell the story of Christ to others. Again, you are twisting scripture. You can literally take any verse and turn it into some sort of "prophesy" when you see things in the world. You don't want to, fine, don't violate your concience, but don't use it as an opportunity to attack and condemn others who love it as a family tradition
Jer10 Thus says the Lord: Learn NOT the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed by them, for the customs of the peoples are FALSE. A tree from the forest is CUT DOWN, and worked with an axe by the hands of a "crafts-man". Men deck it with SILVER and GOLD, they fasten it with HAMMER and NAILS so that it cannot move. Their IDOLS are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to br carried, for they do nor walk. Be not afraid of them, for they cannot do EVIL., neither is it in them, to do GOOD. 1. The Bible never said the tree was "Banned". 2. Jesus wasn't born in December. 3. Describe a Christmas tree in detail, and compare it to Jer10. 4. YHWH is saying this custom of Chritmas is FALSE. 5. Idols = Ornaments 6. Gold and Silver = Tinsel & Lights 7. Craftsman = Wooden tree stands "immovable" tree. 8. God never forces anyone to be LOYAL. 9. Nimrod was born in Dec, hence the FALSE CUSTOMS of Xmas. 10. Funny when people simply don't agree, they call you names. Instead of agreeing to disagree, people accuse you of verbal attacks that were never there. Judgemental much? Victimhood is the blanket response. 🙉 11. Santa Claus = Satan's Claw = Nimrod. (Getting his hooks into you.) 12. How many people LIE to their children every year and say, "Santa" is a real person?? Satan, the father of liars! YHWH hates liars btw.
Thank you! This is all so silly. Even if it had been some pagan practice long ago, that's not why we're doing it now. I'm 50+ and that's never been why did it! 1 Corinthians 10 covers situations like this. If it was okay to eat meat that had been directly offered to idols - and at that time, not a tradition from hundreds of years ago - then even if trees were some pagan practice years ago, that's not why we do it now. Romans 14 covers this sort of thing too. If you have a problem with it, then don't put one up. And others can respect that choice, even if they disagree. Open your Bibles, people! Good grief, the level of ignorance among Christians about such basic things drives me nuts.
Have any of your heard someone say that when you bend down before the tree to pick up presents you are worshipping the tree?
I have.
I know it’s easy to be snarky at such comments and ideas but here’s a few thoughtful responses.
1) Where does the Bible say that every time you bend down you are worshipping?
2) When I bend down to pick up a toddler am I worshipping the toddler?
3) Doesn’t worship require intent?Wouldn’t God be offended by worshippers who merely bent physically but didn’t actually intend to worship Him?
4) If that doesn’t count as worship in other contexts how can it count as worship when it comes to trees?
5) Would you be ok with someone having a Christmas tree if they promise not to bend down while facing it?
6) False worship is a serious sin but isn’t it also a sin to falsely accuse someone of worshipping a tree merely because they physically bent down to pick something up?
Nobody needs to have Christmas trees. But we also have no need to be divisive over them.
What about the hymns dedicated to a tree? (O beautiful Tree) However, sometimes we can be biased. The fact that the world likes Christmas, but not the Cross, as well, makes me wonder much about its authenticity. Although we have no trustworthy sources, Christmas, the way everyone celebrates, appears to have a real pagan connection.
*Then the herald loudly proclaimed, “Nations and peoples of every language, this is what you are commanded to do: As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe, and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace. Therefore, as soon as they heard the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, and all kinds of music, all the nations and peoples of every language fell down and worshiped the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up." Daniel 3
This sounds a lot like what happens in the world with Christmas. Even the date when Jesus was born is not right.
@@alexanderstephen1567I hope you’ll consider the following video. m.ua-cam.com/video/ugxJBb0lPXQ/v-deo.html
@@alexanderstephen1567 I’ve always felt like if a whole lot of people are doing certain things, then I especially should question it.
Matt 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
So for the most of Christian history no one celebrated Christ birth with all this fluff and flesh. Not the apostles nor early church fathers. But all of a sudden because of a legend attributed to Martin Luther and other “traditions of men”, we now make up symbols and traditions that are not exactly Spirit led or biblical in pretense to worship the coming of our King?
We protested Roman Catholic abuses already. One of the original intent of the day was to provide an alternative to the pagan festivals of converts. Early evangelicals rejected it. It was more know for excessive drinking and etc..Christmas as we know it is a Modern phenomenon.
We already have a tree in symbol of eternal life …..it’s called the cross…A tree that Jesus died on to give us life
Not a heaven or hell issue but just baffling the loops we jump through to defend our flesh sometimes
More than just Christmas there are a lot of other fluff we need to purge our churches of just like Christ flipping over the money tables in the temple.
We can worship His coming without all this other suspicious fluff. And let’s not forget that God doesn’t accept all worship.
Some things are strange fire to Him (Lev 10:1-3).
If you like evergreen trees and lights and elf ears, stockings, gifts and etc… then feel free to do that anytime of the year. Just let’s not pretend it’s in worship to the Birth of Christ.
Love you Mike and greatly appreciate your work for the Kingdom. May God bless you and your family and ministry. You’ve been a great help to me.
Christmas isn’t the most important issue but since it ‘tis the season thought I’d comment lol
I was radically saved by God's extreme mercy during a near death experience in 2016. That being said, I've questioned how fleshly Christmas seems to me now. I still participate, and try to use it to lead my family to the cross of Jesus. I felt I had 2 choices, to stop participating in the fleshly part of Christmas, which would likely make me seem like I'm holier than thou, or continue to participate and adjust my focus to Jesus. We live in such a wicked and fallen world, and we have to meet people where they are at I think. I now pray the gospel over our food Christmas Eve, which I never did before I was saved, etc. Christmas also presents more time to love on people that need that love of Christ. I will do whatever God convicts me of, or try my best, but although I question Christmas, I certainly don't feel convicted to completely cut ties with it, and certainly not cut with the tree...lol I may have to get rid of my Santa Clause figurines though, because those are definitely a deceit from the enemy to take the focus off Christ. Thanks for all you do for the body of Christ Mike :)
I adore tress and I thought about how God made the branches kind of like arms reaching upwards to praise him. That thought gives me joy!
@user-uh5bd8bj2w How about no
Once you can see Christ in everything… I think that’s where you truly begin to live feeling content and joyful.
““For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. “Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, And instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, And it will be a memorial to the Lord, For an everlasting sign which will not be cut off.”” (Isa 55:12-13, NASB)
@@jaquirox6579 would ypu celebrate Christ on halloween ?
But does God want to bo worshipped that way ?
Read deuteronomy 12:31
To my brothers and sisters who desire to keep the Torah:
I’ve been there. For years I was consumed by guilt for not keeping the Law well enough. It wasn’t until I was a father that I realized the Law had served it’s purpose in my life. It stood between me and the Father and I was found guilty. It is only by the grace of God that I, through the blood of Christ, am forgiven of my sin. It’s not through adherence to the Law. The Covenant at Sinai revealed the will of God and it was Holy and good. Yet, Christ fulfilled that covenant through his death on the cross. Now, God’s moral Laws continue not by virtue of being written in stone and not as a covenant of works. As a covenant of works it condemns us rightly so. But as a Christian it sets the Father’s will before our eyes and shows us what is good and right. My Torah-keeping brothers and sisters I say the Torah is good, all 613 commands are holy and good. But here’s something to remember for the average gentile Christian. I’m not the Jew to whom God gave the covenant and the promises. I’m not the stranger who bound himself to Israel and joyfully accepted God’s commands. I’m the pagan whom Christ sought out in the far corners of the world. The wicked sinner for whom Christ died. And I will not boast in anything, save the cross of Christ.
I say this as a plea: you love the Torah. Good. Keep it. Take joy in God’s holy days and His commands. But please don’t be arrogant toward the gentile, the pagan whose only plea is the precious blood of Christ.
Daniel...very interesting...GBY. 2Tim.4.22
I’m not sure teaching the Torah of Truth is arrogant, unless you believe the writers of the Bible are arrogant. Obeying the Word seems to be a constant theme through the Bible.
Was in full agreement until you told them to keep the law. The law is for children not for sons. We are sons who worship God in spirit and when you reject the freedom Christ gave us to go back and try to serve under the rudiments of the world you place yourself back under the curse and trample under foot the Son of God.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12a And the law is not of faith:
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
@@BodyofChristChurch48 Matthew 5 17-18
@@BodyofChristChurch48 we obey because we love God. 2 John 6. We were always to obey God in Spirit and Truth, not of our own flesh. It’s not complicated. Love God. Obey God. Man tries to complicate it.
Actually, here in Germany the tree came/comes with the symbolic meaning:
Traditionally it is decorated like this - we have red balls, candles and stars
The green of the tree means: hope and life
the read balls stand for: the fall in the old testament (the fruit)
The stars remind us of: the birth of christ (star of Bethlehem)
And the candles are symbolic for: christs death and resurrection, with he brought light in our lives/world again
I don't know, but that's what i was taught the tree comes from, it's because of the symbolic meaning, christians gave it long time ago.
But you know that it is a" baptized practice", right? In Germanic and Proto-Germanic cults, trees and sacred groves are revered and are sites for sacrifices. A small reminder of Sanct Bonifatius, who converted the Chatti people to Christianity by having their sacred trees cut down, especially the Donar oak near Fulda. Trees and the spirits of the forest play an important role in almost all Germanic legends and fairy tales. The Eller, the Erlkönig, fairies, gnomes... In the German national epic, it is a tree that judges Siegfried's arrogance. It is a linden tree that drops its leaf on Siegfried's shoulders as he bathes in the dragon's blood. In mythology, the linden tree is associated with the goddess of justice and love. With this linden leaf she ensures a very cruel justice. It will be his wife who betrays his vulnerable spot to the enemy.
So yeah, Luther on one hand was a firm believer in malefits and witchcraft on one hand but than took a very witchy thing to make a new tradition.... I don't buy that. It is more likely that the Christmas tree comes from the mystery plays that were very common in the run-up to Christmas and the Easter Lent before the Reformation. The story of the fall of man was often told there with a decorated tree. The reformers had difficulty with any kind of theater. It was too vulgar, too lewd for them... under certain circumstances people would have fun. So in the Protestant areas of Germany only the tree remained. While the Counter-Reformation and the Jesuit theater became more popular in southern Germany and the Rhineland, I don't think there is a Catholic community that doesn't put on a proper nativity play.
@nosabine fascinating response. Thank you.
Thank you - I had read that centuries ago, apples were hung which became the red balls - again symbolizing the fruit. Is that true.
@@NoSabine don’t ignore what this man said in the name of some article or video you found online. What he says is true, it is merely a modest celebration of Christ, or at least WAS, paganism is long dead and Christmas didn’t become a holiday until the medieval times, long after Christ vanquished the hearts of the dark Europeans. As primarily a American of Scandinavian and German descent, it is absolutely, and simply, a silly tradition that people love to do before they celebrate Christ, and everything about the Christmas Tree has a biblical representation, at least in a home descended of the first few hundred thousand Protestants. People made or bought (or sold) wooden ornaments because they couldn’t afford metal ones or couldn’t make metal ones. We are not worshipping any false idols as we celebrate Christmas anyways. The only thing heretical or sinister in Christmas is the whole Santa crap, and big tech taking advantage of our celebration of Christ for themselves. People from originally Catholic or Anglican homes probably do have more darker origins for their celebration of Christmas, though.
@@bobdowney5109 in homes that follow their Protestant ancestor’s traditions, yes it is true. My grandparents did the Christmas tree for modest reasons of course, with Protestant traditions from Scandinavia and Germany. Also, decorating a Christmas tree doesn’t make you a pagan, nor was the tradition for Christmas pagan. That is manipulation used by hardcore secular antichristians or hardcore southern baptists that brainwash themselves by false internet sources lol. Also, don’t fall into that easy trap of thinking of someone like me or the German are just stupid ignorants like some rude people do.
Santa Claus stealing Jesus's thunder seems like it'd be a bigger source of contention
Maybe it doesnt get as much play because of those who celebrate Christmas, a larger population doesnt acknowlege santa claus? But nearly everyone does a tree... just observation, but yes, i think that question should get even more scrutiny among believers (edit: the question about santa claus).
My personal opinion on the tree is that many believers dont realize how much of an idol it can be to them. They may not physically bow down to it, but if the abscence of one negatively impacts their mood, or they MUST have one, argue of how to put it up, during this time of year, they may need to lay down some flesh/ repent.
The more you think about it, the more you can ascertain that Santa is the work of Satan.
He is omniscient
He decides if children should get gifts based on if they are good/bad
He is an idol for children and his enticement is material goods
Parents LIE to their children about a fairytale man (not to mention the Easter bunny, Tooth fairy)
Majority of children look to Santa this time of year, not Christ as the true gift-giver.
It just gets lost in translation.
In Germany we set out a boot for st Nick on December 6th and the Christ Child comes on Christmas eve with the gifts.
The Christ Child "Christ Kindl" then gets turned into Chris Cringle.
Kinda reminds me of the tower of Babylon where the languages get mixed up for confusion.
As a German and knowing German traditions I'm not too confused about it.
Santa does not steal Jesus’ thunder! Where does the Bible give the date of Christ’s birth? Where are we told to celebrate it on a certain date?
@Methodius of Thessaloniki Well, I blame the Catholics for even considering him a saint (using the catholic definition of the word). For in the New Testament, all believers are called "saints."
I've never met any Christian who prays or worships a Christmas tree.
It's still a monument of idolatry.
You are completely missing the point. The point is that the tree is given divine attributes, which constitutes idolatry. The Israelites who worshiped the gold calf at Sinai didn't pray to it or bow to it, but God still said they corrupted themselves because they gave it attributes and achievements and attributes that were His.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 Didn't they worship the calf for delivering them out of Egypt? As far as I can say for the Christmas tree is that it's a reminder of Jesus, not necessarily saying that the tree was born to die for our sins.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 I think you had missed Exodus 32:8
Would you put a Buddha statue in your house as decoration? Hopefully not. So if the Christmas tree is an idol, it would be equally wrong to put it in your house even if you don't pray to it.
I grew up in an evangelical church that could be said to have almost fundamentalist stances, particularly in regards to Christmas. Trees, gift-giving and the like weren't practiced in my house-hold, and so I'm not accustomed to these things. All in all, I think one's personal mindset and motives matter most in whether to have a tree in the house or not. Christmas is about CHRIST and as long as a Christian has their hearts leaning toward that there is no harm in having a decorated tree in your house. Romans 14:5-6a NOT having a tree in the house because of supposed pagan roots doesn't make a Christian "better" or "more spiritual" that other believers.
Christmas was the adoption of pagan festivals that were celebrated by Rome and it's many provinces into a Christian facade to appease the pagans who were supposed to worship Christianity when Constantine made it the state religion. Have you not read in the Bible where GOD told Israel NOT to follow the practices of those pagan nations He was dispelling, not to learn their ways or try to worship THE LORD in that manner?
It was JESUS WHO gave the ten commandments to Moses. JESUS is the same yesterday,. today and forever. He doesn't change. Nowhere in the Bible are we told to remember HIS birth, but HIS death, burial and resurrection. The Christmas tree is in Jeremiah 10. Which is more important, tradition or what the Bible says , your choice.
Hola Eric. Grace and peace. Un saludos desde Argentina. 2Tim.2:22 &4:22
@@williamlugmayer3429 Hello William. Grace and peace. You say "Christmas was the adoption of pagan festivals". Please give the sources. Thank you
@@williamlugmayer3429 ===
Isn’t it just a Christianized version of Saturnalia/Sol Invictus?
===
No. Macrobius’ *The Saturnalia* is our most complete primary source on the festivities of Saturnalia. He records that it was a multi day event of drunkenness, feasting, and exchanging quips from the traditions of the philosophers, where slaves were served by their masters. Mix in some good old fashioned Roman games and sacrifices to pagan gods, and you’ve got yourself a Saturnalia! (*The Saturnalia*, pg. 29-62, pg. 70-73)
It was also believed that “the entrance to the underworld is open” during Saturnalia, and warfare and business were postponed, because they were “ill-omened […] ‘black’ days.” (Ibid, pg. 108)
Macrobius relates that Saturnalia existed before the Romans, so it’s not even a uniquely Roman holiday. (Ibid, pg. 62)
Sol Invictus (properly, Dies Natalis Solis Invicti) was celebrated much the same as Saturnalia. Interestingly, it’s likely that Sol Invictus was created as a response to Christmas, due to the explosion of Christianity in the Roman empire. The cult only became an official religion in 274 AD. The *Chronography of 354* supports this by listing Saturnalia, Sol Invcitus, and the date of the Lord’s birth as separate events, meaning that they weren’t confused by the people celebrating them.
Now, while I know Christmas traditions vary, I’ve yet to meet the Christian who offers sacrifices to Saturn on Christmas Day, or one who worships the sun.
@@adrianvarela8890 grace and peace to you as well. I've been studying the Bible and prophecy since 1991. As far as sources, I've read so many over the course of those years, that I wouldn't know where to begin. Suffice it to say, the Bible itself has been my greatest resource for all topics relating to what we should do as believers. History of saturnalia, yule, Babylonian worship are available to the anyone who can go to a library or the Internet. Answer me one question. Where does the Bible tell us to celebrate the birth of JESUS?
“But once you put tinsel on it- Satan happens” 🤣
Such a good message! Thanks for this needed common sense and educated answer!
Ha ha build a big boat is never rained
Ha ha build a big boat it’s never rained - pre-flooders
@@hydepark1382 was the golden calf the Israelites made evil?
Why dont you go tell God He should've proven it was evil first before He made them destroy it
Is making a statue of Jesus evil?
This isn' the justice court: innocent until proven guilty.
When it comes to idolatry the rule is: guilty until proven otherwise.
The obsession with Christmas trees is boardering on Idolatry and paganism.
It turns out Christmastians got more incommon with Catholics than we thought.
Both use idols in their worship.
@@hydepark1382 Jeremiah 10:4
@@dantombs5697 thoroughly debunked. We don't carve Christmas trees.
The Christmas tree was originally decorated with apples to represent the tree of good and evil in winter-plays. Greetings from Germany
And there ain't even an apple in the bible lol my Oma also hung Walnuts...not sure what those would be symbolic for lol 😆 better check with Opa if he still has his.
Actually. apples help hold the branches horizonal so you can put candles on without the tree catching fire.
Having a Christmas Tree is like having a fancy book cover for your Bible. It might look beautiful, but not the source of the word. And it doesn't matter if it's there or not. Just a nice touch to make you feel better about the real reason why you have it.
WHY would anybody celebrate Christmas? IT'S NOT IN THE BIBLE, FOLKS!!
Gee Mike, MOST of my FREEMASON Satan worshipping pagan neighbors put up a PAGAN Christmas tree for their pagan holiday. Interesting too how you glossed over the verses from Jeremiah 10:2-5, "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. v3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. v4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. v5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Verses 2-5 sure sound like the description of a Christmas tree to me. What bible are YOU using?
Lastly, to which Lodge do you belong, Mike, or are you a Jesuit? 'Sounds like somebody has your number!!
So decorate your book cover, sings songs about it, dance around it, invest time and effort every year in it? Stop fooling yourself! It’s idolatry and you know it!
T @yahuchanon37 Thank you...This is why I don't even bother watching Winger videos or even any Christian UA-camr's anymore. I just had to come mainly for the comment section and see just HOW many Apostate Christian's are here and following this guy still. I just can't believe iHe's ALMOST as bad as prosperity Christian's really...The Bible may not call it Pagan, but it is of the Gentiles and we are TOLD to stay away from it as Christians and NOT do as the Gentiles do, by cutting trees down, dragging them into our homes to set them up and decorate with silver and gold. There's only ONE thing that verse can mean and it's a "Christmas tree". I admit I was in the Christmas tree camp up until I was 40...44 now and actually came back after a very long and dark decent after i lost my daughter...to many Christian's....or Protestants hold on to the traditions of the Catholic Church, even after the reformation and they broke away for difference in believes, yet they kept the traditions. The Roman Catholics APPROPRIATED the Gentile/Pagan tradition to get them to convert, tell them they can keep their traditions and we'll celebrate with them, and add in our own ideas...like Christ was born, which we ALL know He wasn't born on Dec. 25th. We don't know WHEN he was born because it's not about the actual day, it's about WHY he came for us. Christianity is not about time and dates...it's about growing closer and back to God in the intimate relationship He wanted with us with that started with Adam. He just wanted to meet with Adam every day and sit and talk with him until the fall. That's what He wants from us...He wants us to come and talk with him and TRUST him with our lives, not on ANY specific day...but EVERYDAY. The Pagans and Gentiles that haven't converted of accepted Christ are the ones that believe on special days. I mean we shouldn't even be using the Gregorian calendar because they're days named after the Pagan gods, but here on earth sadly we have to....I mean we can use the actual Biblical calendar among other Christians, but even sadly Christians can't even agree on THOSE days when when they started and what biblical year we're actually in if you do a dive into YT Christians trying to use and work that calendar. We just need to STOP worrying about earthly days and holidays...even the Biblical Feast days because even those were an abomination to God, seeing the Jews kept those from their time in Egypt. Christian's...just Sit and read your Bible...read it in a quiet room and allow the Holy Spirit to enter you as you read to help you interrupt...pray before reading it and ask the Holy Spirit to help you interrupt what you read and mediate on it. Stop trying to interupt it yourself and post a video about it or what the culture is doing and how they're going against the scripture. We are not to be a part of that...let them do them and we do what God wants...To Be a LIGHT to those in the world around us and just show love even if they slap us in the face.
@yahuchanon37 Good grief! Calm down! I said it doesn't matter if it's there or not. And you immediately claim I dance around it worship it?
@@silverpslm I don’t claim anything, but comparing Christmas trees to bookcovers don’t hold up. If you don’t matter, get rid of it…
“The trees are fine. But once you put tinsel on it…. POOF Satan!”😂😂😂
Jesus Christ Some Religious People Will Just add Lucifer to Anything Won't They?
They Said The Same With Dungeons and Dragons for Decades Saying The Game Involved The Devil & Was Demonic.
When Really Its Just a Bunch of People In Their Basement Making Up a Quest to Fight Fantasy Monsters. Seems a Lot Of Them Are Too Lazy To Do Research on A Thing they Have No Knowledge On. Their are Demon Monsters but Lucifer Doesn't Exist in The Game Since Its Based in a Fantasy World. You Could Put Him In The Game Since You Can Make up Your own Story & Make Him The Bad Guy
@@RandomManIncorperated There has always been hyper legalistic Christians, that try to create laws where there hasn’t been a commanded law by God. Within the faith, we call those personal convictions. And scripture tells us basically to keep them to ourself, and forbids us to push them on others, since they ARE NOT God commanded laws.
Unfortunately people are inherently selfish, including Christian’s and non believers both. So often people corrupt the truth, and seek to add their own way. Being a true Christian, actually means to live aware of these human tendencies, and sins, and actively rage against your own urges in that way.
But not all Christian’s are educated on what scripture factually says, and not all have a desire to grow in that way. And so they instead create churches and groups all spouting the same misinformation.
I think the Christmas tree largely serves its function of dispelling bad smells and a decorative item because there are no flowers in winter.
What is your religion?
@@876Tiffany I don't think that's relevant for what he's claiming
There's lamp oils and lavender or cedarwood oils for stench
@@jonathanbarkins8480 I don’t care what he/she is claiming I care to know the religion. I am not even paying attention to their assumption I’m focused on something else so keep it pushing and don’t try to worry about what’s relevant for me, thanks ✌🏽
@@876Tiffany
Doesn't work for me neither..
Your relativistic argument does enhance another claim: what is your religion?
Bending over backwards to defend a holiday that is very important to pagans and occult practices is crazy.
Exactly 💯💯
I appreciate how you simplify these matters! Sometimes we Christians want to see evil when it’s not there! Thank you and merry Christmas
So if it’s not evil, it must be Biblical then… let’s see the verse in support of it 😊
@Methodius of Thessaloniki your comment makes no sense… Jesus said we live by every word that comes from the mouth of God… true Christians stick to scripture and if you have a problem with it, it’s clear you aren’t a Christian.
I would love to hear your testimony of repentance towards God and faith in Jesus Christ… when was the day the Holy Spirit convicted you of all your unbiblical behaviour and evil deeds… and you felt sorrow and burdened by all the wicked things you’ve done and you called upon Jesus for salvation?
@@Jesus_Saves_66 I think we must be careful in our thinking towards these traditions- Paul said that all things are lawful , but not all things are profitable. So we don’t want to live like we can do what we want , but the other side is becoming like the Pharisees and having laws for everything- many not ordained by God. Just follow the word snd your conviction
@@deespence8629 I think Paul also said leave the basics of Christianity behind in Hebrews 6. These christmas trees aren't even part of the basics. Paul said that so we can move on to perfection. He meant we focus on helping the needy and preaching the gospel. Tree decoration is not a part of it.
@@Jesus_Saves_66just because something isnt evil, doesnt mean it has a scripture verse for it. What is this logic?
These people often get their arguments from only one side of history and don't realize that two cultures that had no contact could have similar practices
I mean… ultimately, a Christmas tree is just a really goofy lamp to decorate your living room with. If the supposed or actual traditions behind some people who used tree-or-light-based decor offends you on God’s behalf, don’t do it. If it doesn’t offend you on His behalf, you don’t believe the tree DOES anything mystical for you, and you are thankful to God for providing the money and means for a tree, decorations, electricity, house, etc., I’d say there’s no reason for panic. It’s really not much different than putting a lovely, eye-catching painting of a forest in your house or buying some extra lighting fixtures to keep your house brighter during the dark months! God knows “the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Keep your heart right before Him, and trust Him to instruct you with the Holy Spirit if you ought to practice differently.
It’s an idol
@@mastergirl922 if that is what you believe, I have no interest in persuading you otherwise. Keep away from Christmas trees, and Christmas altogether- it’s not worth causing schisms among believers. I already made my case for why my conscience is clean on the matter… God bless!
@@violentviolet8867 I’m afraid you misunderstood what I said; I would never advocate “follow your heart.” I said, first, to make sure your heart is *right* before God- to examine oneself, to be sure that one’s doctrines come from Scripture rather than from worldly “wisdom” or Pharisaical legalism- and second, to be open to the conviction and reproof of the Holy Spirit in the case that there is some misunderstanding or ignorance of His will. These things have to be understood first before any “Christian liberty” is considered.
My handling of this issue comes from the exhortations of 1 Corinthians 8, the whole chapter from beginning to end. Perhaps my original comment neglects to emphasize the verses 9-13 portion of the teaching, but I believe the “self-control in front of others” portion is just as important as the liberty portion. I have no more to say on the matter. God bless!
"For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." - Gal. 5:13 🤔
"The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God." - Rom. 14:6 🤔
Brothers, we all have freedom in Christ. So many of us get caught up in rules (aka law) because we are scared of the abuse of freedom. If you decide to celebrate, celebrate in the freedom and in love to your fellow man. If not, do so in freedom and in love to your fellow man. Christ is king and he is being remembered in this season. Merry Christmas!
Romans 14:6 is about fasting
@@Xxxquick33xxX Read it again in context. There is principle.
@@mequint2000 that IS the context. Tell me then, in the book of Esther when they chose the entire day to fast, who was it unto? Themselves? A holiday? No. This passage is about fasting that's why it's talking about eating and abstaining.
Tell me now, when you are "abstaining" a man made holiday (Christmas) you're not doing it for the Lord. You're still eating and drinking.
My eyes went to the first part "The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord". I made this assumption on a post on Facebook and was corrected by a sister in Christ that the CONTEXT is about fasting. I had to read it again, and guess what? She was right.
@@Xxxquick33xxX Nope - you have missed the point. Good day!
So where in scripture does it tell you to celebrate Pagan traditions and practices?????
I just keep thinking about how God is very specific about how He wants to be worshiped and not how we want to worship Him. Syncretism isn’t something I feel He is fond of.
I just always find it interesting that the early settlers in America came (partially) to not have to celebrate Christmas because of its Pagan roots. Yet this new wave of information hundreds of years later (that came to combat Christian claims of Christmas having Pagan roots) suddenly sweeps the internet over the past couple years. I just find that funny.
Christmas was actually banned in America for generations until the play “A Christmas Carol” was discovered by the newer generations and grabbed them by the heart with nostalgia and tingly feelings & made them want to participate. That part of history hasn’t changed on the internet… yet.
Some of best Christmas memories are decorating the tree with my siblings. These memories are more precious than all the gifts I have or ever will receive.
People need to get real jobs and real lives instead of trolling the internet spreading false information regarding Christian celebrations. It truly is stupid, and I totally agree with Mike Winger.
That’s because you don’t agree with the Bible.
The origin of most of the things in Christmas are in fact pagan. The funny thing is none of these things are in the bible or even in the books of the bible that are non cannon.
You will only find the origins of these so call Christian traditions in pagan origins,
There are always folks who try to put in bondage those who are free
Is it freedom? Are you free to celebrate the antichrist system? Or are brothers and sisters shaking people that are sleeping in the light?
Tell me what you know about the mass I want to hear it. Nobody is brave enough to do it maybe you’ll be the brave soul. You know the mask that we’re talking about? The Roman catholic mass.
That’s why the world is the mess it is because people like yourself think that freedom is found in rebellion…it’s the truth that sets people free from the lies and how do we know the difference between lies and truth? When we search the Word of God to tell us what He says and when we believe His truth, over the the lies of this world… we will find freedom.
Either you’re free from sin, to live for God OR you’re free from God, to live in sin.
But what does it have to do with Jesus?
Jeremiah 10:3-4 (NRSV):
" For the customs of the peoples are false:
a tree from the forest is cut down,
and worked with an ax by the hands of an artisan;
people deck it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so that it cannot move."
That's referring to idols made from trees
I have a few questions I’m hoping to get answered because I don’t know if I should continue celebrating Christmas so I’m not arguing. 1. Why do we celebrate Christ birth on the day that is not his birthday? 2. Why is a Christmas tree needed and where did the idea come from? 3. Who started modern day Christmas because I couldn’t find Christmas in the Bible also where in the Bible did Jesus tell us to celebrate his birth like this 4. If the whole world celebrates Christmas but aren’t believers how can Christmas be about Christ when we do the same traditions non believers do on that day? 5. What is Jeremiah 10 referring to? Hopefully anyone who reads this can help me out because I’ve been asking these questions to family and they just give me opinions with no scripture that I can study.
Thanks
Trees may not have much to do with Christmas but as Christians we celebrate the birth of Jesus and to celebrate we want to decorate our homes. We put pretty sparkles on and we put lights on, isn’t Jesus referee to as the ‘light’. We put an Angel on top or a star to remember the Christmas story.
We can read all sorts of meanings into anything if we try. It’s just a nice tradition that brings people joy
Exactly....
And what would the anti Christmas tress Christians say about a nativity scene ornament?
He Wasn't Born On Christmas
@@RandomManIncorperated noone ever said he was
@@RandomManIncorperated Maybe not but we celebrate at Christmas with the things that we learn about in the story of Jesus birth
@@anneharley5319 your not really a Christian your celebrating nimrod's birthday and paganism and not following Christ,if your a follower of Christ your not of this world.if you love this world you follow the transitions of man.remember the Bible word States of not keeping the law what will happen to the heathens.
It's like having flowers or wearing your finest clothes on Easter. It's not a religious object in itself, it's something that makes the time of year more special, which of course should be done with the intention to celebrate and honor Jesus and remember his birth.
That is beautiful, like having flowers just because they are beautiful and perk people up, or wearing nice clothes to church. That is really what is at the heart of all the decorating. To bring joy, to bring festivity, to celebrate Christ. There are lots of pharisees in here, looking to steal joy and look on the downside. Yet so much of how we adorn a tree, w/ a star or angel on top is to celebrate the Christmas story. Many other Christmas customs like garlands, lights on trees all tie to Christ's birth. The star guided the wise men, who gave gifts. This is why we give gifts, and on it goes.
It’s fine to have trees in your house obviously it’s just a tree in your house nothing special about it and your not venerating it but it starts to become pagan if you decorate it as that’s a deliberate act which is pagan (yule and saturnalia)
@@jrh2266 It's all about intention. The tree is part of Christmas tradition and has been for a long time. We dress it up w/ tinsel, lights and stars to remind us of the 3 wise man and the star that guided them. We exchange gifts because the wise man gave gifts. I know there are pagan traditions you can find if you dig deep and set your focus on them. For almost anything we do, we can find some sort of pagan tradition that is similar.
Aaron declared the following day would be a feast day in honor of God after he made the golden calf (Exodus 32:5). Did his intention end up appeasing God, Who would rather we discern between the holy, which are those things set apart of Him, and the profane, which are the things of the world? (Ezekiel 44:23).
This is the whole reason He warned the people who genuinely want to worship Him in spirit and truth not to adopt the ways of the heathen (Jeremiah 10:1-4). He knew most would end up being disobedient.
@@free2serve7777 So celebrating Christ's birthday w/ a lot of trappings and decorations that have traditions for Christians is now a golden calf?
Romans 14:14
I am convinced and fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean.
Pharisees who want to crap on Christmas are too much.
All these "Christmas and/or Easter things have pagan roots, so you're really doing idolotry!" People seem to not only have no knowledge or care of history, but none of scripture as well. If we're doing something in our lives for superficial decorative reasons, wouldn't that be the same principle as Romans 14 and not asking whether the food you're eating was sacrificed to idols?
Christmas is about the birth of Nimrod’s son Tammuz who’s birthday was celebrated on Dec 25th.
Pagans would dedicate a whole week to celebrate and it was called Saturnalia. The evergreen fir tree was used to pay homage to the phallus worship of they did towards their god Nimrod, the Sun god
It has nothing to do with Yahuah or the gospel message about His son, Yahusha Ha’Mashiach.
There is far more to worry about in this season like consumerism, gratitude, greed, gluttony, false God Santa, etc.
And many good things to focus on, like family, gifting, serving, connecting, telling stories and lessons to kids, remembering Christ's birth as a celebration.
The last thing on my mind is whether a pagan once had a tree 6000 years ago that has absolutely nothing to do with me today.
Tell that to the Lord who made you, who is the same yesterday and today, who hates idolatry and commands against it. It doesn't matter if it doesn't matter to you, it matters that it matters to Him. Love the Lord your God, first commandment.
@shamgarcahn9980 no, you don't speak for God. He's not as petty as you.
@@vigilantezack I don't need to speak for God, the scriptures I quoted to you already speak against what you said.
I didn't belittle you, why did you belittle me by calling me petty? If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, then why belittle me?
@shamgarcahn9980 you've quoted no scriptures.
My comment is that we live in 2023 and whatever a pagan did 5000 years ago with a tree has nothing to do with us and what we do with trees today.
Searching history to find if any bad group once did a thing that kind of resembles a thing today is a neverending battle against non-existent boogiemen.
If you found out devil worshippers 5000 years ago used to pray to Satan with their eyes closed, would you start praying with eyes open so you don't accidentally worship Satan because that's what they did in the past? Of course not.
Don't conflate modern festive decorations with ancient middle east pagans long gone to history.
God is not threatened by dead false gods or pretty twinkle lights.
@@vigilantezack Indeed that was your original comment, but what does that have to do with belittling me in your comment toward me?
So I didn't quote you scriptures when i said The Lord made you, He is the same yesterday and today, He hates idolatry, and Love the Lord your God? You think I made those things up?
Deuteronomy 12:30-31 explicitly says not to worship God the way the heathen worship their gods. Yet that's what christmas is, using pagan traditions to worship God.
Doesn't everyone bow down in front of their loungeroom decorated tree and make sacrifices to Horus and Dionysus?
From what I've read on comment threads, it seems this is a common practice now lol
The worst that can be said about the traditions at this time of year is that Jesus, in a large portion of the population, has been relegated to an afterthought.
But it's also a great time for Christians to take the opportunity to talk to relatives about what Christmas means to them without automatically being shut down. Most people are more likely to attend a church service as well at Christmas- and the Holy Spirit can use that message to break through hardened hearts
I think self-righteously shunning Christmas and trees is probably more of a bad witness than good - but that's just my thoughts. Have a blessed Christmas everyone :).
Most people that reject the Way think that God followers are “self righteous”. That has nothing to do with Christmas or trees but with a heart in obscurity. It’s interesting that you put blame on people that doesn’t want to be in the world Christmas parade, than to the fact that most or the world reject God and His way.
@@cmorales5 You're right, some Christians (and non Christians for that matter) can be self-righteous.
I'm not sure I understand your second point
You dont need a Christmas tree and lights to be able to share the gospel or share stories about God.
Nowhere in the Bible the Disciples first went to go put a Christmas tree up before they could speak to people about God.
Y'all behave like Paul burned a few babies with the Baal worshippers to gain their trust so he could share the gospel with them.
Paul made it clear he had limits. I wonder if you ultra flexible New Convent followers have?
You disable the Holy Spirit when you have to go put Christmas trees up first just to go share the gospel with people.
The apostles did it, without gimmicks and gadgets, with just the Holy Spirit on their side.
Can we really call ourselves Christian today?
@@stoneyestevan1513 I think you misunderstood my point. Of course you don't need to put up Christmas trees to share the gospel. I do think people seem to be more willing to go to church with you at Christmas though - just a personal observation. And of course, you should take the opportunity all year around to share you faith.
Full disclosure, I haven't put up a Christmas tree for about 5 years, but not because I'm against them. Just never got around to it lol
@Blood-Bought & Spirit-Taught These Christians who despise self-righteousness and self-righteous people, have become the very thing they despise so much.
Spiritual blindness, and form of holiness but denial of the power of God is all becoming more clear as we near the end...
It's sad to see Christians make excuses for acting like the world.
"Romans 12:2
Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect"
That's referring to sinful behavior. What comes to mind for me Are the things that don't bring glory to God, but christians don't bat an eye at.... Wearing tight yoga pants, Dancing in a suggestive manner, Spending money on unnecessary frivolous things when you could be Using those funds to help people.
Seems a lot like the Muslims who think that they need to to dress like Arabs, and anything modern or western is "copying pagans".
Romans 12 isn't about clothes or foodstuffs or household decorations. Its about the heart, motivations and right relationships.
I think you are misinterpreting this text. Romans 12 1-2 is talking about true worship. The dedication to living in God's honor. Being different than non Christians.
Where does the Bible say you're allowed to type on the internet? That's what the world is doing. Don't be like the world. Sad.
@@dustiningham3173 You are absolutely BUTCHERING Jeremiah 10 to get Christmas and Chistmas trees out of that. Nobody carves Christmas trees into the shape of false gods or worships them or carries them because they can't walk. Respect the scriptures enough to use proper exegesis.
“For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and *a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. Like a scarecrow* in a cucumber field, *their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk*. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.””
Jeremiah 10:3,
I like the anti tree arguments just for the sake of simplicity, anti consumerism/stress. It's a lot of work and a nativity scene is much easier lol. Kids love trees so that's a pro. And then there's the tree of life, light of the world symbolism in some people's traditions. This debate is going to continue until Jesus returns.
Jesus Returns & Says,
Jesus: Okay Why Are You Fighting About a Pine Tree! That Is Completely Idiotic and Dumb
I Was Born in a Desert That Tree Doesn't Exist There.
I don't even know why I bother to check the comments. 3 videos of why Christmas traditions are _not_ pagan and the comments are just 99.999999% "bUt wHaT aBoUt *thing that was already addressed in the video* ????? MIkE iS a pHaRiSeE."
Are you guys literally incapable of paying attention for 8 minutes (even less in the previous two videos)?
I hope you all keep that same energy at all church events and all social gatherings. It's not in the Bible, so every birthday celebration, wedding celebration, church event, and social gathering with your friends are pagan and evil and you're worshipping pagan gods somehow. Want to celebrate the life of someone you love on the anniversary of their birth? Too bad - big birthday parties were a common pagan practice, involving lots of drunkenness and promiscuity! Like to light candles because they smell nice? Too bad - everyone knows candles are used by witches and pagans in their rituals! Like to keep potted plants in your house because they look nice and freshen the air? Too bad - pagans sometimes brought greenery into their homes! Your kid is coloring a starry sky in a color book? Punt the child - everyone knows stars are just pentagrams and astrological signs are regularly used in pagan practices!
I wish I could see this kind of energy in Christians calling out actual sinful practices running rampant in our churches today.
Where in the bible are we told to put up and decorate green trees man? Are modern Christians so foolish. The OT verses are filled with idolatry that used to take place under green tree. Xmas tree has nothing to do with Christ so it's an idol, full stop
@@citygirl7702 why did Paul say it was ok for some people to eat meat sacrificed to idols?
👏👏👏👏👏👏 😎.
@@citygirl7702 Where in the Bible does it say to comment online and correct people, and makes sure to reply to every comment?
@@CLDJ227 I'll comment and reply wherever i want stalker 🤣 go back to your bed kid. This ain't your private space of authority
"The Puritan argument against Christmas (and other similar institutions) is three-fold: (1.) No time of worship is sanctified, unless God has ordained it; (2.) unscriptural holidays are a threat to the proper observance of the Lord's day because these holidays tend to eclipse the sanctity which belongs only to the Lord's day, (3.) the observance of unscriptural holidays tends toward the superstition and innovation in worship which are characteristic of Roman Catholicism"
Here's a little known fact. Martin Luther was born in 1483. Martin Luther probably reused an already existing holiday to create his tradition of the Christmas tree. Why do I say this? Because in 1419, a guild in Freiburg put up a tree decorated with apples, flour-paste wafers, tinsel and gingerbread. In “Paradise Plays” that were performed to celebrate the feast day of Adam and Eve, which fell on Christmas Eve, a tree of knowledge was represented by an evergreen fir with apples tied to its branches.
No “probably” necessary in that statement. Mike is just plain wrong saying Luther started it, Luther reappropriated it from the Pagan German Yule tradition
@@narrowistheway77 (sorry in advanced for such a long comment but); Most traditions credits Martin Luther as the first to decorate a Christmas Tree. Though I don't believe he created the Christmas tree tradition itself. What I find really intriguing is that there is a legend that states St Boniface (675-June 5, 754) created the tradition of Christmas trees. According to the vitae Boniface felled the Donar Oak, Latinized by Willibald as "Jupiter's oak," near the present-day town of Fritzlar in northern Hesse. According to his early biographer Willibald, Boniface started to chop the oak down, when suddenly a great wind, as if by miracle, blew the ancient oak over. When the gods did not strike him down, the people were amazed and converted to Christianity. He built a chapel dedicated to Saint Peter from its wood at the site -the chapel was the beginning of the monastery in Fritzlar. This account from the vita is stylized to portray Boniface as a singular character who alone acts to root out paganism. Is was this account that some credit St Boniface with the tradition of the Christmas tree.
However, The usage of Christmas trees can be traced back to the fourth century when european pagans were largely responsible for dressing their homes with the branches of evergreen fir trees in order to bring color and light into their dull winters.
But pagans weren't the only people to do this. Romans also used the branches for decoration during the festival of Saturnalia.
Now here's what I think Mike might be saying. I think Mike is trying to make the argument that German settlers were the first to introduce the indoor evergreen. At the time, people hated this idea so much that In 1659, the General Court of Massachusetts even made a law that celebrating Christmas was illegal. The only thing allowed was church attendance: no decorations, especially trees, should be seen.
So how did Americans evolve into Christmas tree fanatics? There's no clear answer, but a few theories stand. One reason that I find the St Boniface one interesting is that This version claims the tree's fall as a pagan symbol turned it into a declaration of Christianity. The tree was then seen as a triangular symbol of the Holy Trinity.
Whether or not that's the real reason for the spark of religious interest in the evergreens, the German community began to accept both trees and formal Christmas decorations in the 17th century. It wasn't until the mid-19th century Americans found acceptance for the once pagan symbol in the Christmas holiday.
To touch up on your statement about it coming from the festival of yule; They were known as yule trees. This tradition dates back to the pagans and Celts and originally involved the cutting down and burning of a whole tree over the 12 days of yule. This was to help the sun God recover from illness and grow strong again. The winter solstice is a day between 20-23 of December and is the darkest day of the year. It was believed the darkness was caused by the sun God’s sickness and need for spiritual fire and light to help bring about recovery and therefore spring. Later the selected tree was cut down and the trunk or ‘log’ was brought into the home and fed to the fire over the 12 days. After which any remaining wood was stored safely for the following yule. Only in recent times has the yule log become a cake!
Take the holly tree for example. Holly was used for decoration throughout homes, hanging boughs of it over entrances to peoples’ homes or as wreaths of holly that were hung on doors. Placing a ring of holly on doors originated in Ireland. Holly, green with red berries, was one of the few plants still beautiful at this time of year. It gave the poor a means of decorating their dwellings. Decorating one’s home with holly was believed to bring protection and good luck to the inhabitants in the coming year. This tradition is believed to originate by the neopagans in Iceland circa 1st century when they built the first temple to the Norse gods. They held a similar winter tradition called "the holly King and the oak King". The Holly King and Oak King are personifications of the winter and summer in various folklore and mythological traditions. The two kings engage in endless "battle" reflecting the seasonal cycles of the year: not only solar light and dark, but also crop renewal and growth. During warm days of Midsummer the Oak King is at the height of his strength; the Holly King regains power at the Autumn equinox, then his strength peaks during Midwinter, at which point the Oak King is reborn, regaining power at the Spring equinox, and perpetuating the succession.
They mostly used branches of evergreen trees to decorate their homes during the winter solstice, as it made them think of the spring to come.
However, this tradition can be traced even further back in history, all the way to ancient Egypt in the year 2181 BC after the supposed death of the Egyptian god Osiris. They celebrate a form of the winter solstice called "Eid Milad Majid". The Egyptians would have used twelve-limbed palm trees as a symbol of a closed year at the winter solstice. Some people would also decorate conifers and made wreaths as well as garland. This whole tradition started because of a half baked claim that osiris' wife made. When King Osiris died, his wife Isis claimed a full-grown evergreen tree sprang up overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life of the dead Osiris.
I believe that it's not the tree that makes it pagan, but what you do with the tree that makes it pagan.
I liked the line about how we shouldn’t sing (hymns presumably) in church because its roots are “pagan.” Remember that when he was “Lord High Protector of England,” Oliver Cromwell - who was a Puritan, I believe - FORBADE singing in churches! 🤨 So, according to a show on the BBC I saw when one time in England, people would gather in pubs to sing hymns and praise God!
Kind of fits: from what I’d also heard over the years, “A Mighty Fortress” tune was an old German drinking song, as was “The Star Spangled Banner,” an old English drinking song. The writers “nicked” familiar tunes and changed the words, thank God!
Here’s what I have come to trust: Anything that the world does en masse ( like Christmas and exampled by the tree lighting ceremony at the White House with someone like LL Cool Jay), is clearly not a real way of our Lord and Savior, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it.
Matthew 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
No where in the Holy Bible does God tell us to observe Christmas.
He states His appointed times in Leviticus 23. End of issue for me.
Jeremiah 10:4
Read Jeremiah 10:1-4
And you will see that yes there were pagan practices that involves cutting down a tree decorating it with gold and silver and putting it in the house, they worshiped it as a god.
You asked for a scholarly source why don’t we just go straight to the Word of God?
Respectfully saying, the middle finger hand gesture has a well known meaning. Just because I want it to mean "Jesus loves you" doesn't really make it mean that.
I live in America. Christmas isn't about Christ. It's about Christmas trees and what's underneath. Food! Family!
It's also about getting smashed off the free booze at the company Christmas Party. And we get angry if Uncle Joe neglected to get our little Timmy a present this year. We do all this under the guise of celebrating Christ's birth.
Maybe you haven’t been around a Christian family celebrating Christmas with Christ at its center
@Wendy K That would not be my point however, is what you state the rule, or the exception?
@@hanzschaggi4254 if that’s not your point, then I don’t understand why we as Christians should care about what the heathen do, I just don’t expect unbelievers to have the right focus on Christmas.
@Wendy K In brief, my point would be Jesus already has holidays all about Him, and the fact the church has changed Commandments to fit their own agendas for whatever purposes. According to one poll, 57% of Americans asked, decided gay marriage is perfectly acceptable and even good. Is Christmas good? In totality I ask, is it righteous? In order for it to be so, it would have to come from God the Father Himself, and instead the actual focus is on Passover. Which one is more Holy? They both can't be, one is of man.
Mike, It seems like you are trying too hard to justify the practice--reaching and defensiveness. Your comment about singing is a red herring.
Many have been lead astray from God through the years beginning with the Golden Calf incident. Be cautious and sober-minded in your teaching. Normally, what you have to say is thoughtful, well-reasoned, and Scriptural. Why is this one different?
The best and only "fallacy" argument a Christian has is appeal to authority. Please appeal to the only authority there is: the Bible.
You don't even understand the golden calf incident, nothing began with the golden calf. Those humans did not want to worship God only other things so God gave them a symbol of "Earthly things" to worship because that's what they wanted. God said "IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT THAN HAVE IT!" Do not pretend or act like you know God's will because you don't so repent and stop speaking falsities. Lying is a sin.
Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
Merry Christmas †
Repent of your sins and your pagan traditions and call upon Jesus to save you… Jesus Christ does not bow to you, you bow to Him.
New sub. Ive been on a search for true biblical teaching. Im chronically ill, bedbound and have given up the church/religion and doctrine yrs ago. I have religious PTSD according to therapist. I fear religion is destroying true faith. But u see Ive always kept my faith in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and the true word, not the rewritten/changed Bible. I was lead here and hope its what I need to keep my deeper study up. I believe the Christiams tree is in the eye of the beholder. Some will see it as ritual, some will see it as just beautiful and fun, etc. Ive never felt it was something to devide us over but should be a coming together. Like u Its fun, beautiful, smells amazing, gives u a happy heart to share with family. Thanx so much, take care, Blessings
Great... but then are you following God/Christ in the Way God wants? The answer to that question has nothing to do with christmas or trees, but with faithfulness and relationship with God. Scripture is His revelation.... so.... I think you should read and study His Scriptures.
Seek the scriptures, not man.
hey I hope you feel better. :) mike has a lot of great videos. im so glad you've not abandoned God. God bless
"Its fun, beautiful, smells amazing, gives u a happy heart to share with family." I loved that line. Lots of naysaying though and we need to be careful about joy stealing. You're chronically ill and bedbound, and it's sad that people don't want to let you just enjoy some lovely Christmas trappings to brighten your time at home. Enjoy and God bless.
sorry to hear about your PTSD. humans have made a real mess of things, eh? im glad you have kept your faith. be encouraged to keep building on that relationship with God, reading His word- which is the truth- and i hope that one day you will find healthy fellowship with other believers :)
may the LORD bless you with His presence
The earliest reference to Christmas trees I found wad just befor Luther and the use of them in medieval paradise plays enacted around Christmas where they use a tree decorated in fruit as a prop in the story of the garden of Eden. Due to the fact that many people could not read and it was a good way to get the bible over to people
I find it ironic that so many pastors will live and die by the Words in the Bible EXCEPT when it comes to things they like to celebrate themselves. INTERESTING.
Thank you for historical context for the Christmas tree. It does not matter what pagan practice and intent was. The tree is a creation of God. For me, the evergreen tree is a useful symbol for the tree of life that Jesus represents. The star and lights are a sign of God`s glory in Christ. The nativity scene and gifts under the tree carry on the tradition of the magi giving to honor the Christ child. Reclaim and transform culture to the glory of God.
He gave no historical context.... what are you thanking him for?
Metal was also made from God doesn’t mean we are supposed to go out an use pagan images made from metal
@@elib9002 2:09
I agree 🥰✝️💖
Half these people don't sound like they attend Church 😔
So for most of Christianity no one celebrated Christ birth with all this fluff and flesh. Not the apostles nor early church fathers. But all of a sudden because of a legend attributed to Martin Luther and other “traditions of men”, we now make up symbols and traditions that are not Spirit led or biblical in pretense to worship the coming of our King?
We protested Roman Catholic abuses already. One of the original intent of the day was to provide an alternative to the pagan festivals of converts. Which is why early evangelicals rejected it. It was more know for excessive drinking and etc..Christmas as we know it is a Modern phenomenon.
We already have a tree in symbol of eternal life …..it’s called the cross…A tree that Jesus died on to give us life
Not a heaven or hell issue but just baffling the loops we jump through to defend our flesh sometimes
More than just Christmas there are a lot of other fluff we need to purge our churches of just like Christ flipping over the money tables in the temple.
We can worship His coming without all this other suspicious fluff. And let’s not forget that God doesn’t accept all worship.
Some things are strange fire to Him.
If you like every green trees and lights and elf ears , stockings, gifts and etc… then feel free to do that anytime of the year. Just let’s not pretend it’s in worship to the Birth of Christ.
Love you Mike and greatly appreciate your work for the Kingdom. May God bless you and your family and ministry. You’ve been a great help to me.
Christmas isn’t the most important issue but since it ‘tis the season thought I’d comment lol
Merry Christmas to you and yours! 😊
You probably want to stay away from tables made out of wood then since pagans also used them
@@Lord9Genesis for rituals, even -- unlike Christmas trees
Seriously, I have felt like the Lord has been talking to me the last 2 days concerning this. We have made some interesting assumptions about pagan practices and how Christians have adopted (appropriated) pagan cultural celebrations and items. With the Christmas trees, it seems to come down to purpose. The tree itself is not pagan or Christian, it how it is used. Thanks for posting this.
So is it ok for me to bring tarot cards, a goats head w/ some goats blood in a chalice and a pentagram into my house? It would be a great conversation piece during pot luck dinner when I have house church.I have zero intention to use these items for worship or celebraration. Don't you agree?
@@rjthomasindyusa do your research on those items and let me know if they were designed for specific pagan purposes. Apparently the tree has not been, but I am still researching. Do you know of any Christians that bring those items you mentioned into their homes? Are you going to avoid eating chickens because they too were used in Santaria?
@@thehotcorner3337 So you wouldn't find it 'unbecoming' of a Christian to have those items your house?
I thought we were called to "come out of her" and to "set ourselves apart'? Aren't we told to "shed light onto darkness" and "avoid the mere appearance of evil"?
@@rjthomasindyusa I don't think you answered my question. I would not personally have those items in my house, but again most of what you mentioned were items specifically designed and intended for certain types of worship. Again though, some items are very universal and unaffiliated and some are not.
@@thehotcorner3337 A rabbits foot was not designed to be pagan, but I won't hang it on my mirror for good luck. Nor will I pretend that it will please God if I give it a "Christian" meaning. Maybe it symbolizes the soon return of Jesus because rabbits are quick. I could come up with lots of things, you probably get the point.
Maybe the Christmas tree should be called superstition rather than pagan because the latter is debatable.
For what it's worth I remember reading in grade school that the Hessians brought the tradition of Christmas trees to America during the American Revolution.
Thank you for the historical fact. Doesn't sound like something that this preacher would appreciate.
Thank you Mike for your channel. I’m learning a lot and I’m a new subscriber.
2 Timothy 4:3 ~ For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.
You better clean your itching ears and get some sound doctrine.
Yeah this dude is a false teacher and a liar.
@@Jesus_Saves_66perhaps you should look at the log in your own eye before pointing out the speck in anothers.
I'm a former witch who actually worshipped the earth. Trees were instrumental in the worship practices I performed. As a Christian, conversely, Christmas trees are a direct correlation to my past, along with wreaths and mistle toe as those are also integral to winter solstice wheel of the year stuff that I was familiar with. We don't have those things in our home. Because I'm a weaker brother, not because those things are inherently sinful. We can eat meat sacrificed to idols because these things aren't anything. So, that's what I teach my children. I also don't tell others what their convictions ought to be.
Because of your background, I fully support your decision to not have Christmas trees and other of the trappings of Christmas in your home. Thanks be to God for delivering you out of witchcraft, and thanks be to God for giving you such a gracious attitude.
In one church I attended an older lady sang in the worship team. Week after week she came onto the stage with her walking stick decorated with flowers. That's all it was, but I saw a pagan symbol. I'm sure I was the only one. On the other hand using a cornucopia as part of Thanksgiving decorations is certainly pagan. Evergreens for Christmas/Yule/Solstice are somewhere in the middle.
What does the Tree have to do with the birth of Christ ?
Literally Nothing.
The Place Where He Was Born Pine Trees Aren't Native to it Palm Trees are what he Would of Been More Familiar with. I Mean Who The Hell Finds a Pine Tree in The Desert?
Don’t fool yourself doing silly jokes and making fun of people who know the Christmas tree comes from a pagan culture even if they don’t have the full information, The Roman church still has a lot of paganism inside and they remain the symbols and meanings even if we want to look the other way.
You must not have watched the video.
Not taking sides on this currently, but I find it interesting that most will defend Christmas with all their might, but then claim that the Father’s appointed times (Passover, Trumpets, Tabernacles, etc.) are unnecessary and shouldn’t be observed
Truth bomb! 😁
Exactly
Yup
Yes thank you
Isn’t it because the birth and death of Christ accomplishes the law?
Kinda disappointed with Mike on this. I waited over a week before saying anything so I could think and pray.
1. No mention of the scripture in Jeremiah at all........
2. The historical practices are easily found sourced so I have no idea why he said that he couldn't find good sources.
3. Luther lived late in 1400's. He most certainly wasn't the first to come up with Christmas trees
I have no real problem with trees despite all I mentioned because I'm not legalistic nor am I some high priest. I just wish he would acknowledge the real reasons some are opposed to the idea and went from there instead of taking a crap on those oppositions and ignoring the scripture in Jeremiah.
Bringing greenery into the home as a way to honor mother nature and hope for spring is ancient, and stems from the worship of creation. You do not have to praise something for it to be counted as pagan worship. Just look at the modern pagan movement of nature worship and green witches to see how innocent and harmless these practices appear.
Exodus 23:24 says:
"you shall not bow down to their gods nor serve them, nor do as they do, but you shall utterly overthrow them and break their pillars in pieces."
And in the Hebrew, it means:
1. You shall not bow down or revere
2. You shall not do any work or service
3. You shall not do any deed, act, or participate in any product as simple as eating a loaf of bread in connection with any pagan ritual
The tree has countless pagan ties, and every argument defending Christmas and pagan traditions is,
"But it's fun, God created trees, God wants us to have fun, and Jesus!"
God also created the fruit that Eve was forbidden to eat. Just because God created trees doesn't mean we can excuse our use of God's creation as a means to participate in ancient pagan traditions with joy. The scriptures are full of the Israelites doing exactly the same thing, and God punishes them severely.
You can't deny the pagan roots of Christmas traditions. The Catholic Church admits that their whole purpose behind most of the holiday traditions in the church is to make vague events where you could just as easily worship the sun god as you could Jesus, and everyone would coexist peacefully. That is the purpose of Christmas- to give the pagans a way to continue to be pagan, and give Christians a way to put Jesus onto popular pagan holidays. Win-win, except it's syncretism and it doesn't work. We can't redeem things. We aren't Jesus.
Mother nature 🤣🤣 stupid new ager tryna be Christian
in that case, you better not have any houseplants. That ficus is the embodiment of sin apparently. You cannot seriously think bringing plants into your home is pagan.
@@ryantannar5301 I don't think having a houseplant is pagan. But look into elemental spirits- houseplants are definitely used for pagan purposes.
Difference being- the only reason to cut down and tree, bring it into your home, and decorate it, is to celebrate Christmas. Bringing evergreen boughs into the home during the winter is an ancient pagan practice as a way to pray to mother nature to bring spring back. If you don't believe me, look into Nordic and Celtic yule practices and green witches.
@@ryantannar5301 This is an extremely poor argument, as Christmas trees are erected for the sole purpose of being given divine attributes. That is a far cry from simply decorating a home with a houseplant.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 it's a perfectly valid response to the above comment. The user above states that bringing greenery into the home is pagan. That's not the argument most people make, which I why I'm so surprised. I see what you are saying and you are making the more common argument, but the above user literally states that it's pagan to bring plants inside. I'm sure that's a fairly unique take
It’s not about what you “think” it’s about what the Word of God says and the Word of God says clearly not to be conformed to the world and not to participate in any traditions that are not found in scripture… so please tell us all who you are doing this according to? And why you are trusting in your own wisdom, above God’s Word 📖
Lies. Scripture NEVER says that any tradition that isn't in the Bible is "conforming to the world". Utter, despicable, filthy lies. You are eisegeting some IFB or Jehovah's Witnesses nonsense into the Bible instead of exegeting what Scripture actually says. Pastor Winger made the scriptural case and you can rudely disregard it and remain ignorant if you like, but just know that that's what you're doing.
Chanukah isn't a Levitical feast and wasn't in the scripture at the time of Jesus, yet he celebrated it. It was a tradition. Food for thought on your assertion.
I think you're right. I'd rather not involve myself or try defend something that I am not 100% sure about. My own understanding of this matter is very clear though I know after a lot of researching that Christmas is a pagan holiday.
@@finalaccuracy7695 amazing point
So we can't go to a Fourth of July parade since that's not in scripture? We can't wear a gown and cap at graduation or go to a class reunion? Can't have birthday cake? How about the countless unique family traditions that every family has that aren't found in the Bible?
Mike, I’ve watched many of your videos. This is the first time to ever comment. I disagree with you on this one (including your Halloween views). Holidays are traditions of men. The birth, death and resurrection of our savior Jesus Christ is in my heart and soul everyday as his blood washes ours sins by the minute. I don’t need a tree, “time of season” or a cross to be reminded of these things. My advice, examine yourself, put your feelings to the side, and go back to the Bible.
Love, Dee
No holidays/feast are very Biblical especially to the Jews used for remembrance of what God did for them for generations to generations especially since the “Bible” wasn’t readily available to the masses. Traditions are a tool for remembering not to be elevated or worshiper higher than God.
Pastor Mike does all of the heavy lifting for Christians. God bless
Hear what the Lord says to you, people of Israel. This is what the Lord says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the heavens, though the nations are terrified by them. For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field, their idols can not speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.”
Jeremiah 10:1-5 NIV
I find it interesting that he never mentioned this scripture. I've pointed this scripture out to people who were smart enough to be able to read and understand what the LORD is saying, but they refused to. They just have this look in their eyes that tells you that they know and understand, but they are blinded to the truth because they would rather believe the lie. I understand this because I used to be that way. I've also learned that there is no amount of arguing God's truth that will convince them or change their minds. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. So now I just show them the scripture and if they are chosen by God then He will reveal it to them in his time, and if they're not chosen, we'll, if your chosen then you know the end.
Matthew 15:9 KJVS
[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Trees in scripture should never be worshipped “oh Christmas tree oh Christmas tree how beautiful are your branches!”
So if Paul says to reject traditions and customs not laid down by the word or apostles do you Mark think you are think still is right?
Oh but CHRISTIANS don't worship Christmas trees lol. Have you ever seen anyone worshipping a Christmas tree? In all honesty? Of course not. Now there are songs written by people that are not great, even Christian songs written by and for Christians can he problematic. Don't sing it. But don't throw away a beautiful tradition that strengthens family and brings them together to celebrate the birth of Christ because of a song written by a single person. How silly
@@TinkerBell-bt6vu no, no Christians don’t don’t bring a tree into the sanctuary. Put an angel on top of it.
Now what you got a really ask yourself is why is a tree so important? I think it goes back to Genesis. The serpent in the tree right. And don’t even ask me to try to explain why cursed is any man that was hung on a tree. I don’t know why Native Americans make totem poles. could trees have a religious symbol and context but I think the answer is certainly maybe. But don’t put a tree in my house and Call myself a Christian.
Listen, Galatians 4: 10 Colossians 2:8 and 2 thess 3:6 Matt 15:9 I’ll say something about rejecting the traditions that are laid out by the world and not by the word and the apostles. If I got one of the verses mixed up, forgive me, it’s close somewhere around there you get the general drift.
Yeah, there’s some mysterious about trees that we as Christians keep away from, Israelites were caught into false worship through Groves,
@@josephpchajek2685 lol quit it man bible no where tells ya to put trees and stuff 🤦♀️🤦♀️Just quit it
@@josephpchajek2685use the Word instead of fancy long opinions bro
I don't think anyone truly worships Christmas trees, even a song like that may be used to admire the beauty of it, but at the end of the day it's just a tree.
Compare that to how we sing about God from a sincere place of worship and praise for who he is, what we believe him to be, and all that he's done. Have a blessed day.
I went and started reading some comments. WOW, all the different thoughts on this subject. So I am just gonna sum it up for everyone. CELEBRATING CHRISTMAS WILL NOT TAKE AWAY OUR SALVATION. That's as easy as it gets. And if I am not mistaken, no where in the ten commandments does it speak of. God looks at our intent of the heart.
Boy, the absolute units in the comments trying to use the points dispelled in the video as legitimate arguments are real troopers.
I do not judge anyone for having a Christmas Tree. However, I was personally convicted not to have one to celebrate the birth of Christ. I personally don't see the connection between the birth of Jesus and decorating a tree. Encyclopedia Britannica and the History Channel both site Pagan cultures as decorating their homes to celebrate the everlasting life of their pagan gods. Then, when I read Jeremiah 10 I felt all the more convicted to drop the tradition. It is my belief that the Bible is the inspired, eternal Word of God. So it spoke to the people of the time about false idols, but I felt it also spoke to me in modern time about not decorating trees to worship God (as the pagans did). If you disagree, I love you anyway and I pray you have a wonderful celebration! Hope this post finds everyone blessed!
I think this lines up well with what Paul said about eating food sacrificed to idols... Basically paraphrasing it here, but "don't let it bother your conscience". All things were created by God, Satan didn't create anything. Even if pagans did it once to worship their gods 2000 years ago, so what? Are we worshipping their gods by doing the same, even if we don't intend to? No, because their gods don't exist.
This tradition has nothing to do with food… this tradition is about a celebration that the world partakes in… it’s a celebration that every religion and belief system partakes in… is the Bible not clear enough when it tells you don’t conform to the world, don’t partake of unbiblical traditions, do everything according to scripture 😮 what does Mike and all others who celebrate their own tradition get from self exaltation?
@@Jesus_Saves_66 Paul wasn't specifically talking about food either. What makes Christmas bad to celebrate, even IF it was a pagan holiday originally? If it was(which it wasn't) we took a bad holiday and made it something good, so it should be celebrated. The Bible doesn't say "Do not celebrate any holiday that isn't in the Bible" that's just legalism.
It's up to you if you want to. "What does Mike and all others who celebrate their own tradition get" dude, Christmas is a tradition about giving, remembering Jesus' birth. and caring for the unloved. What do you gain from avoiding it is what i should ask. If you don't want to celebrate it, much like the food sacrificed to idols, Paul says "Don't bother your conscience", then by all means, don't celebrate Jesus' birth and give gifts to your friends and family on Dec 25th. But don't push your conscience matters on others.
Btw, the idea that Christmas was some pagan holiday stolen by Christians is a myth created to slander a Christian holiday. The closest pagan holiday was Saturnalia, which ended Dec 23rd. There was no Pagan holiday on Dec 25th, even Yule is Dec 21.
““For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. “Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, And instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, And it will be a memorial to the Lord, For an everlasting sign which will not be cut off.”” (Isa 55:12-13, NASB)
Oooh love your name 2nd Corinthian
What's the difference between Korinthen and Rosienen?
@@aqua6613
Kannst du auch auf Deutsch fragen - also ich kenne den Unterschied nicht wirklich, aber du kannst ihn mir ja verraten ;)
Interesting. My question is this. Why are we as Christians more interested in celebrating the Holidays not in the Bible Christmas and Easter. instead of celebrating the Holidays God did put in the Bible. Feast of unleavened bread. Tabernacle the day of trumpets etc., which all speak of Christ coming, death, resurrection and coming again.
Because the world hates Christ, but it can handle the mythical Christ in these mythical holidays
I don't think Christmas should be celebrated at all. It doesn't matter whether there's no pagan connections at all; Christmas, I would argue is the symbol of greed.
Wow You Must Be Fun At Nowhere for Being a Buzzkill of Fun.
Amen David!
That is where your heart is. That doesn’t make it so.
It’s a celebration. A commemoration. A feast. A remembrance. If you or someone, or anyone, has a problem with greed it will show up in your life all over the place not just at Christmas time.
Sir, I don't know if you are a Christian but if you are I would remind you that Judas also thought that spending all that money to just dump an entire bottle of highly expensive perfumed oils(think high end limited edtion real french perfumes available today) on Jesus' stinky feet was excessive, overindulgent, pointless, and down right irresponsibly wasted. Scripture even mentions that Judas dared to arrogently complain these resources could have been given to the poor(ppl it seemed he thought it would more responsibly have been donated to). So... remember, God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, nothing done in His honor is ever wasted. Only once a year is His birthday so while we Christians give our whole lives and resources to Him every day, or that is to be the Christian endeavour, only on Christmas do we take special time across all denominational lines including even millions who don't profess Christ, to honor The King of Kings when He stepped down from His throne to aide mankind in OUR mean estate. Merry Christmas to you sir. May the love and hope that came that first Christmas, warm and strengthen your heart which like the Grinch's was 2 sizes to small when you wrote this comment.
This coming from someone who also has said that Easter is his Passover and that we can go against God's Laws by teaching we can eat food God has called an abomination. All this defending Christmas(not in the bible). Where is the same passion for God's Holy Days(in the bible)?
Ezekiel 22:26
“Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
Ezekiel 44:23-24
“And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
“In controversy they shall stand as judges, and judge it according to My judgments. They shall keep My laws and My statutes in all My appointed meetings, and they shall hallow My Sabbaths.
Mike, I have enjoyed watching you in the past..me and my husband saw this passion in you for God that I loved but then we saw the errors and its hard to ignore.
Their is nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas not everyone celebrates a child's birthday on the exact day due to work and other things. Christmas is a celebration of Jesus and being with those we love we give gifts to each other because we are happy and are blessed by God to have the income to do so . My 3 kids know that Jesus is why we celebrate Christmas we read the Bible at Christmas of the Nativity and make a nice meal and watch the Nativity and listen to godly Christmas music theirs no Santa nonsense theirs no elf on the shelf nonsense. Our Christmas is god centered yes I decorate my tree I love the lights and it's simply just pretty . For those who don't do anything for Christmas ok that is on yall but don't try to say someone isn't a true Christian because the celebrate Christmas. God knows our hearts he knows why we do what we do it's his job to correct us if theirs a need to.
There is no Christmas in the bible nor a christmas tree and no Santa Claus, it is so simple as one and one is two.
The bible is God's word and truth, no fairy tales.
If you fight so hard bc you don’t want to let it go, despite its pagan origins, has it not become an idol to you? If you have pleasure in unrighteousness, do you not open yourself up for deceptions? Do you not make stumbling blocks for your children? COME OUT OF BABYLON ❤
Unfortunately many people are destroyed for lack of knowledge because the reject knowledge that doesn’t agree with their unbiblical desires… but instead of repenting for their sins, they don’t want to lose them, so they defend them… why do so many people reject the truth of God, that was given to set us free 😮
Christmas isn't pagan cause Winter Solstice and Saturnelia don't even fall on the 25.
If celebrating Jesus' birth is pagans why did not only the angels in heaven celebrates his birth but even the Shepherdsville who saw the star of Bethlehem celebrate his birth by giving baby Jesus
You can read the story of Jesus' birth in Luke
At the very least the "fake" Santa Christmas with all its secular songs is a distraction from the "real" Christmas. I have a question that you love to ask on other issues; Does this glorify God? Will the Santa story be in heaven? Do reindeer have an eternal position in heaven? WWJD abput Santa?
Jesus will be burning Santa in the lake of fire for trying to usurp his authority. I burned all my Santas and other spiritual things when I become a believer. (No one told me. Obvious conviction from the holy spirit that I obeyed, one that is reasonable enough that even if God didn't sent the holy spirit it would make sense.) So I got some foretaste of the enjoyment Jesus will experience when he comes back.
@@XeenMusic Jesus: How Can I Come Back? My Ashes Are Completely Gone, Leave Me Be
I've Lived a Long Life Already
I Don't Want To Come Back My Job Is Done
Santa Claus is based on a real Christian bishop Saint Nicholas
@@godstenrules Which Saint do the reindeer represent?
Deuteronomy 12:29-31. God does not want us to worship him the way "pagans" worship their gods. IF the Christmas tree does stem from pagan worship of another god, then it should not be incorporated into our own worship. For me, I don't see the connection with a Christmas tree and Jesus, which is enough to not do it. However, go ahead and lookup the Saturnalia Tree, as this festival appears to have occurred during the exact same time, with a tree brought inside and everything. The similarities are striking. Combine this with no biblical command to observe Christmas, that's plenty for me.
Another great resource is The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop. Published well before the internet, he does well to document many pagan things incorporated into Christianity. So I don't think you can call it a modern day internet conspiracy theory.
He didn't mention the verse about it (Jeremiah 10:4)
These comments are absolutely off the chain.
Pretty sure about 2/3 of them feel free to opine without ever watching the video.
It’s a matter of opinion and this isn’t a salvation kind of issue. But: some of us prefer to err on the side of the most conservative interpretation of Scriptures. In that sense, not engaging in the so called “Christmas spirit” is a better way to go. It isn’t Phariseism to be conservative in this issue.
Just like interpretations of the bible, it’s a matter of opinion 🤷♂️
@@jasonnoble7302 well, Truth exists and I try my interpretation to be that Truth. That should be our goal as sons of God.
Unless you criticize others.
@@jasonnoble7302
Not "interpretations" of aLL or any parts of the Bible, though.
There are some bits where cultural interpretation comes into play, or personal response/opinion regarding the personalities of the writers of scriptures or those they describe....
But there are also stated facts and recorded events of history, that are clearly stated truths, that are not requiring any interpretation or opinion.
With these truths, one either believes and accepts them as Truth, or one rejects the Word of God.
There's conservative, and then there is calling man made rules mandatory for all Christians.
I agree, but struggling a bit with "O Christmas Tree?"
Sounds to me like it is more than a tree.
**shreds on guitar** HOW LOVELY ARE THY BRANCHEEEEEEES **headbangs vigorously** **smashes guitar**
Yep
And that is the song that will be played in movies. Not "holy night", not "what child is this", not "God rest ye merry gentlemen". It's all about the tree, it's all about "sandy claws" and his "little helpers"
There is no "Christ" in "christmas"
It's not required to sing that song if you don't think it's appropriate. Just because a song is about Christmas doesn't mean it is appropriate for Christians to sing. I personally dislike "Santa Baby", for example, because it seems greedy to me. "O Christmas Tree" has never been a favorite of mine, and I rarely heard it growing up or now. I grow fonder of songs truly about Christ and listen less to songs about the season or Santa (not that I think they're all bad). As Christians, we have to be discerning about everything, and that includes how we celebrate Christmas (if we choose to do so). Don't sing songs that have words and themes you disagree with or are uncomfortable with. Thinking through each thing we do and making sure it honors Christ as we intend is good.
For those saying we aren't told to celebrate Jesus' birth, we also aren't told NOT to celebrate his birth either.
If celebrating Jesus' birth is pagans why did not only the angels in heaven celebrate his birth but even the Shepherdsville who saw the star of Bethlehem celebrate his birth by giving baby Jesus presents.
You can read the story of Jesus' birth in Luke
Boy it didn't take long for the comments and replies to get crazy 🤣 🤣.
0:23-0:28 sums up the internet and trolling in a nutshell 🤣 🤣. Nevertheless, excellent work Pastor Mike, I often thought that even if decorating trees was pagan it's the purpose that matters not just the act. Also, I would love to see you go over that history of some people thinking that drums where evil, I'm only vaguely familiar with that.
My house is surrounded by evergreen trees covered with snow. It's very Christmasy as well as beautiful.. I don't bring one in but I can see why other people do to bring Christmas inside with them. Evergreens symbolize where we came from, eternity.
"Evergreens symbolize where we came from, eternity." Do the Scriptures say that?
@@jeffrachelburkhalter3783 It's OK to use the mind God gave you.
@@robertdouglas8895 Scripture says: These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11 I don't see anything in the Bible about Evergreens symbolizing where we came from, so I'll reject that one.
@@jeffrachelburkhalter3783 People see what they want to see until they see as God does and then they still do. Thy will, not my will.
@@robertdouglas8895 We are created beings according to the Bible. We do not come from eternity. Only God does.
Their sources? “Trust me, bro”
The symbolism of the evergreen tree and gifts under it dates back to Nimrod. Most of this knowledge is easily accessible.
Thank you!!!!
I literally just opened "Christmas Tree" in the Encyclopedia Britannica and it clearly explained that;
1 - the tree was a practice of ancient Egypt, China and the Hebrews, (likely the stories of the groves)
2 - the first 2 centuries of church leaders shunned the idea of using a tree in celebration of Christ, let alone celebrating the birth of christ.
In every case of Mike's arguments in this vid he is NOT THINKING BIBLICALLY nor Reading In Context.
He is pretty good on occasion, but this is just evidence that no man is perfect in his theology and we need to be based whole and solely on the scriptures.
Well if it's so easy give us an example. I tried researching it and found nothing.
Search "Nimrod evergreen tree" and you will find plenty of literature on this topic.
And ancient Bavylonians used tables and chairs for their evil pagan worship. Chairs, tables, and even plates and spoons must be abolished in Christian homes immediately.
Just coloring on a piece of paper is decorating a tree and in your house.
Play with fire all you want. Someone who truly fears Yehovah would not be seen anywhere near the ways of the heathen. You can spin the man made traditions all you want but it will always be a tradition of man and with that it becomes a danger to us spiritually.
@7:15 “it’s fun, it’s not that deep”
I guess you say the same about Halloween too. Nothing is deep nothing has history, nothing has meaning. Lol your spirit doesn’t even look right making a sermon like this, you look really uncomfortable defending something so hard and it’s not even the word of God. Unsubscribed.
My people will perish for a lack of knowledge because they see it at surface level and not digging deeper.
@@876Tiffany paul said it was ok for some Christians to eat meat sacrificed to idols because their hearts and minds weren't involved or interested in the worship of that idol.
The same principle applies here.
@@shadowcolorado3668 Amen.
If you have conviction to not celebrate any holidays that's fine. If someone doesn't have that conviction and navigates these holidays wisely then that's fine too. Have a blessed day.
@@CLDJ227 how does one “navigate a holiday” for the worship of Nimrod “wisely.” If Jesus is not your God keep it pushing.
The origin of the Christmas tree isn't Pegan. It was actually made to combat the German pegan belief that Thor lived in a giant oak tree. I think the story went that St. Boniface went to witness to the germans, and chopped down the said tree, and then pointed at a little sapling and basically equated it to the birth of christ. Later I think they adopted the Jewish tradition of candles and began to put candles on the tree, and as time went on and the practice spread, we now have what we have today. That's the history I remember learning at least.
@@dustiningham3173that has nothing to do with xmas trees that has to do with carveing a tree into a pagan statue not the tree itself
@@marcellofunhouse1234 Insisting that the Bible is wrong doesn't make you right. It simply means you are wrong, and that you will not accept anything that contradicts what you want to believe. Jer. 10 plainly speaks about cutting down an evergreen tree, erecting it, and decorating it as being a heathen custom.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 xmas trees wern;t even a thing back then anyway
@@dustiningham3173 I think then it comes down to what Mike said. It's about the intent. Jeremiah 10 clearly talks about the vanity of the people doing it, as well as the clear extravagance. If you're doing it in a way to honor Christ, then I don't see a problem.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 The Bible isn't wrong, you're reading it wrong.
The true question is....'What would Jesus do?' Based on my knowledge of Christ and His actions in the Bible... I think Jesus would attend celebrations to evangelize... but I don't think He would decorate His house with items that represent pagan worship. I don't see it....
I agree.
"With items that represent pagan worship"
Did you literally not watch the video
I fully agree
@@drawingdragon You should watch Pastor Robert Breaker's video about Christmas. He explains it all, the Christmas tree included.
@@drawingdragon So is Mike Winger the absolute authority in your life... or do you do your own research?
Hmmm. Simple answer.... Yes. Sure seems Mr. Winger didn't use the Bible as a reference...?
Jer 10:3) For the customs of the peoples are futile; For it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool. 4) They decorate the idol with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not totter.
This might be the most flagrant point i've seen Mr. Winger off theologically. Seems he is a bit too flippant and wanting to dismiss what the Bible clearly says. Sad 🤥
My understanding is the German tradition of lighting trees/ bringing them into the house predates Christianity becoming widely adopted in the region and has either a secular or Germanic pagan religious origin.
It’s possible the oral traditional tale of Luther bringing a tree into the house may be an attempt to reconcile German tradition with Christian faith
Why not just celebrate the birth of Christ on the day He was born?
Sukkot
@@josephpchajek2685 The Bible is explicit.
“The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us.”
He was born on tabernacles. It’s not symbolic. If you make that symbolic then you must make the entire sentence symbolic.
It doesn’t work!
He is Jewish, born in at “an appointed time.”
@@josephpchajek2685
No, he DEFINITELY, literally, put the animals on the ark. The flood is definitely literal. To allegorize scripture where there is no reason to creates grace error.
Adam was also a literal man.
But clearly you know more about it than I do…
@@josephpchajek2685
No.
It is present in the New World.
It bares fruit every month.
Revelation 22:2..
Somehow I knew you were one of those people who do not interpret the fall literally.
Somehow….
@@josephpchajek2685 All of creation has been FALLEN since Adam (who you do not believe was a real man who ate from an actual tree).
Your logic is bankrupt and I’m finished here.
Followers of Christ like Paul did not put Christmas trees inside their homes. What for? Whose culture are we going to follow? Early Christian culture didn't mention about it. If it was that important, they would have surely told us.
Paul also didn’t have a phone, but that doesn’t mean we can’t. Customs change, the Lord is the only one who doesnt! ❤
@@julianalutz5078 Yes. That's right. You're talking about things we do need these days. Cars, computers and the internet. No discussion on that. But during the time of Jesus, the apostles and early Christians, did they even talk about the need to put Christmas trees in their homes? Please show me some verses.
@Methodius of Thessaloniki You know, Methodius, I give no thanks to people anymore. When a person has done me a favor I tell, "May God bless you and your family." But I also say, "Thank you so much, Father." For God is where all goodness comes from.
"Every good gift and every perfect present comes from heaven; it comes down from God, the Creator of the heavenly lights." - James 1:17
"And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things, at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work." - 2 Corinthians 9:8
We should thank the Creator not the creature. The person, the tree, the crozier are simply tools. Let us also remember that the one we serve is a spirit being. Yet we can serve him by serving his brothers and sisters. Don't look for a tree. Look for people who need help.
@@carlorivera3035 we don't NEED cars or phones...
@@katie7748 Jesus and the apostles had all the trees available in the world. None of them used the tree as decoration for Christmas. They were busy helping the needy and preaching to people like you who have little understanding about God's will. You on the other hand are so absorbed with your thing that's because you're not a follower of Christ. You're a follower of your own desires.
The Word warns us about traditions of men. Christmas is a tradition of men built upon lies and the world loves it. You can’t mix darkness with light. You can’t mix truth with lies and say it glorifies the Lord. We worship in spirit and in truth. He is the way and the truth.
Redeem it !
You were “bought with a price” so you can glorify God with traditions as long as your not elevating traditions higher than God
... didn't God create the trees and the very materials needed to create a lot of decorations?
Absolutely. God also made the gold that his people used in Exodus 32 to (falsely) worship him. His word tells us how to worship him and how not to worship him.
Thank you both for responding to my comment. I am thankful for fellowship and conversing with my brothers and sisters in Christ.
Christmas trees aren't even Christian. Nowhere in Christian dogma does it require a Christian to have a decorated pine tree in his home. So when someone calls them a holiday tree, that is exactly what they are; a decoration to celebrate the Christmas holidays. Nothing more and nothing less.
Jeremiah 10:3-5
God Bless.
No mention of Boniface? Supposedly chopped down Thor's oak and pointed out how firs reach up to the heavens to honor God. This apparently happened in Germany.
You mean firs? Ferns aren't trees
(I don't mean to be rude)
@anenderwomanwithinternet you're right, thanks for the correction.
Jeremiah 10:4 is an example of prophecy being fulfilled. Bread crumbs if you will. The decked tree has become satans tree to exploit. An idol to Greed, arguments, debt, envy. I don't need x-mas to be kind once a year. I try to be kind to others everyday. I don't need a tree in my home to show off my generosity to others. The Christmas mantra is what is bothersome. It's like admitting you can only be good, one day out of the year. That day being the on the birth of Nimrod.
I hope you’ll consider this study of Jeremiah 10. It seems quite clear that it’s not about Christmas trees or anything connected to them. m.ua-cam.com/video/GFhHmj77_rg/v-deo.html
But its not though. You can't take scripture out of context. Jeremiah 10 has absolutely nothing to do with Christmas trees and shouldn't be used to condemn your brothers and sisters who love Jesus and celebrate His birth and use Christmas as a time to bring family together and tell the story of Christ to others. Again, you are twisting scripture. You can literally take any verse and turn it into some sort of "prophesy" when you see things in the world. You don't want to, fine, don't violate your concience, but don't use it as an opportunity to attack and condemn others who love it as a family tradition
Jer10 Thus says the Lord: Learn NOT the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed by them, for the customs of the peoples are FALSE. A tree from the forest is CUT DOWN, and worked with an axe by the hands of a "crafts-man". Men deck it with SILVER and GOLD, they fasten it with HAMMER and NAILS so that it cannot move. Their IDOLS are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to br carried, for they do nor walk. Be not afraid of them, for they cannot do EVIL., neither is it in them, to do GOOD.
1. The Bible never said the tree was "Banned".
2. Jesus wasn't born in December.
3. Describe a Christmas tree in detail, and compare it to Jer10.
4. YHWH is saying this custom of Chritmas is FALSE.
5. Idols = Ornaments
6. Gold and Silver = Tinsel & Lights
7. Craftsman = Wooden tree stands "immovable" tree.
8. God never forces anyone to be LOYAL.
9. Nimrod was born in Dec, hence the FALSE CUSTOMS of Xmas.
10. Funny when people simply don't agree, they call you names. Instead of agreeing to disagree, people accuse you of verbal attacks that were never there. Judgemental much? Victimhood is the blanket response. 🙉
11. Santa Claus = Satan's Claw = Nimrod. (Getting his hooks into you.)
12. How many people LIE to their children every year and say, "Santa" is a real person?? Satan, the father of liars! YHWH hates liars btw.
Merry Christmas to you and yours and have a wonderful New Year! :)
@@dustiningham3173 Most Christians know Jesus wasn't born on December 25th and the Bible makes no reference to the actual day.
Women hang ornaments on their ears and have sparkles... therefore woman are Christmas trees
Thank you! This is all so silly. Even if it had been some pagan practice long ago, that's not why we're doing it now. I'm 50+ and that's never been why did it! 1 Corinthians 10 covers situations like this. If it was okay to eat meat that had been directly offered to idols - and at that time, not a tradition from hundreds of years ago - then even if trees were some pagan practice years ago, that's not why we do it now. Romans 14 covers this sort of thing too. If you have a problem with it, then don't put one up. And others can respect that choice, even if they disagree. Open your Bibles, people! Good grief, the level of ignorance among Christians about such basic things drives me nuts.