Audio enhanced. Didn't think I could do these map vids with post-2021 onboards, but somehow the enhanced audio still gave away the wastegate-open sound. So here we are again. My 1st maximum power map vid was from over 3 years ago: ua-cam.com/video/g9nYB57MLJY/v-deo.html
It's wild how much more difficult it is to tell in some spots compared to pre-2022. The exhaust is just a little louder now, but you can really tell on the back straight. 8 continuous seconds of deployment is wild; that poor battery.
Since you are the reference UA-camr for this technical info. Can you get telemetry data on whether Lance was paying attention before he crashed into Daniel Riccardo although the onboard footage is pretty clear and Lance is denying that its his fault and saying Daniel brake tested him. Would also like to know why Alonso was getting some blame for that restart
they open the wastegate because in this situations they spin the turbocharger shaft with the electric motor (MGU-H) to get the turbocharger rev up faster. so they open the wastegate to put the exhaust gases around the charger to maximize the gasflow (iam german so this might reads kinda weird) and the engine got less resistance and might rev up faster. after few seconds, they close the wastegate and power the turbocharger by exhaust gases. that makes completely sense and shows me why iam no engineer. i would just go full pull give it all never hold back! :D
Your videos are excellent with good resolution.Υou had Verstappen in Brazil in 2019 onboard with the best v6 Hybrid sound of HONDA engine, but I can't find it anymore.
2021 AlphaTauri had this similar sound in accelaration. I experienced this live back in 2021 and i remember my torso was vibriting because of that AlphaTauri everytime it got past me in Quali
@@ThaDutchDK1989 if you recall, in 2014 Renault had half of their cars retire from reliability. 2015 was Hondas first year and they only had one team using their engines to test.
People are say this and that is impressive but what's impressive how thi guys has managed to find this out and track it so accurately Been watching F1 for a decade and i have never seen something so detailed about something so secret
These answers my question. I have seen that RedBull has a very fast launching off the courner, that is when they get out of corners and even for teh start.
This is so insanely cool, to think that just this change alone would alter a lap time so significantly. If they took .1 seconds away from 1 straight and put it elsewhere, how would that affect lap times
I really hope you can do this for other teams as well, hopefully they have exhaust mics cuz so far Redbull's engine has the most noticeable sound when the wastegate opens. I couldnt here that in the Ferrari's for example
Not really the exhaust is right at the back and not really blowing on anything. The sound is probably from anti-lag to prevent the turbo from spooling down too much when off the throttle.
If the compressor makes 3 bar of boost, the exhaust is also making roughly 3 bar of backpressure. Running the turbo off the ES gives you 3 bar of boost but gets rid of all the back pressure you need to create that boost.
it doesn't matter if you got 3 bar of boost with 3 bar of backpressure or 3 bar of boost with no back pressure or 6bar of boost with 3 bar of backpressure. the fuel flow is the limiting factor of horsepower.
@roku_nine You don't think removing pumping losses help crankshaft power? My friend, a basic introduction to combustion engines is in order. 30% of the engine power is wasted as pumping losses and friction.
Yeah and how do you power the MGU-H (hence, power the turbine) without generating excessive boost pressure that would destroy the engine? Yep, by opening the wastegate. If there's one category of people that I hate, it's those people who correct knowledgeable people stating right information with bullshit things.
Just curious, is the wastegates opening and closing automatically (through a throttle pressure, from the car itself) or done from the driver themselves (via: a button of some kind)?
One thing I noticed is that the exhaust opened exiting turn 16 only when starting the lap, not when finishing it.. First, why? And second, how much time is that worth?
Im surprised they don't bypass the turbo slightly and use the mgu-h to recover energy to mitigate the need for the wastegate. I guess its probably due to the restricted ERS deployment time. That makes you wonder though, how much more energy the power unit could deploy if the time wasn't restricted?
So basically the mguh keeps the turbo’s high rpm scalability, but adding a supercharger like response. But car also opens the wastegate in mid rpm, along with a underboost code😂
Not totally true. Max’s Abu Dhabi 2023’s pole lap is what you’re looking for in terms of sounding amazing. It seems Abu Dhabi is one of the few places that use the old mic positioning setup for some reason. Go watch that and then see what I’m talking about.
not a engineer but I think it's so that the turbo is also spun by the exhaust gasses and not only by the MGU-H. Effectively using less energy while also allowing the engine to output as much power (and thus exhaust gas) as possible
@mierenmans881 I think it's more because the acceleration phase is usually more important, so with a limited amount of battery, they have to choose their spots for deployment. Once the wastegate closes again, I imagine the MGU-H is back in generator mode, and the turbine is spinning the turbo again. The whole point of opening the wastegate is the added power from reduced backpressure, so they wouldn't still be deploying the MGU-H while the wastegate is closed; it'd be a waste of battery.
@@roku_nine In a normal car with turbo; yes. But in F1 they currently use a MGU-H, and this is the crucial difference. Also the explaination by OP is flawed. The wastegate is opened to reduce backpressure, and in a normal car this would "deactivate" the turbo. But here they use the MGU-H to spin the turbo up as well as opening the wastegate. So they get reduced backpressure as well as turbo boost. Spinning the turbo via the MGU-H uses a lot energy from the battery so they can only run this mode very briefly. 2nd most power will be created (considering only ICE+turbo and MGU-H) would be MGU-H assisted turbo spool-up while wastegate closed, don't know if this is used though. 3rd most would be wastegate closed and no assist or regen' from MGU-H, essentially like a normal turbo car.
I think they should find a way to make the cars louder in future regs, even if they don't change the engines back. That would help the cars feel better to the audience, anyway
Allegedly the 2026 cars will be a bit louder than the current cars. They’re gonna increase the rpm limit by a little bit and they’re getting rid of the MGU-H too. Which restricts the exhaust and noise the car makes.
@@Jabba.Da.Hutt_ There is no longer an RPM limit at all in the technical regulations, however the 12500 RPM maximum you see is due to fuel flow limits. In fact, as ICE maximum fuel flow is supposed to be lower in 2026, the maximum revs might be lower
No expert, but: Inlet pressure would be higher if you had no wastegate, yes. But if the pressure in the exhaust pipe is too high, less exhaust gas can be sucked out of the cylinder. And if exhaust gas remains in the engine for another cycle, there is less space for fresh air, even if you have more turbo pressure. So the power output is reduced.
Normally in a turbocharged car, you use the engine exhaust pressure to spin the turbo. F1 cars can use their battery as an alternate means to spin it, but it draws a lot of power when the car is at maximum power so it can't stay open perpetually.
On a 4-stroke engine, backpressure reduces both power and efficiency by restricting exhaust flow. On a naturally aspirated engine it's actually possible to get _negative_ backpressure with good exhaust design, but on a turbo car it's an inevitability you just have to deal with.
The wastegates have been there the whole time. During the 2016-2021 seasons, they just had a separate exhaust pipe for it. Wastegates not only control the amount of drive pressure used to spin the compressor or MGU-H, but they're also a pressure safety valve in case the MGU-H fails.
Why is it Verstappen engine note sounds smoother and almost muted compared to Perez? Always prefer this sound to Verstappen car from previous race weekend as it sounds watered down even though Verstappen is still outperforming Perez on merit.
Why would they get off of maximum acceleration before the breaking zone? You can clearly hear the car is still accelerating after they stop maximum acceleration. You might think they would want maximum acceleration the whole time on the straight .
In the opening wording, you have no. Mention of battery power. This led me to believe maximum power was only maximum boost. I see my mistake. However, the text is a little misleading.
Місяць тому
you have to recharge the battery sometimes... and that times are the rest of the straights
They open the wastegate to release the backpressure than use the MGU-H to spin the turbo keeping boost and adding the benefit of reduced backpressure at the expense of battery level.
They have a boost limit I’m sure this is how wastegate controls boost, the explanation needs a lil tweaking. They open wastegate once maximum boost level is reached & this happens differently because turbo is being spun by ele in addition to exh energy. Add the ele boost when it is utilized to maximum then engine only prob doesn’t produce enough boost to open wastegate, maximum efficiency
Yes. During the race, the driver hits Overtake on their steering wheel to enable this max ERS mode, where the MGU-H drives the split turbo unit solely by itself at much higher speeds than just the exhaust gas can, using energy from the battery. This means the exhaust gas coming from the enine is no longer needed to drive the turbine of the turbo and can be let out to the atmostsphere. A wastegate opens up and lets this exhaust out, making the cars exhaust sound much louder and raw becuase there's no turbine in-between anymore. During QP, the car is in a different ERS mode where the team has already maps points on the track where this full power mode is activated, the driver does not need to press any buttons.
you've got the terminology wrong. opening the wastegate causes the boost pressure to maintain or drop (not rising) thus limiting the power. closing the wastegate shut would cause the boost pressure to rise and produce more power (if fuel is enough) however would overstress the power unit/engine. there's a cheap street modification where people would weld the internal wastegate shut to produce more hp however risking a blowout.
Nothing is wrong in his terminology. Yes, the wastegate is being fully opened in those periods. The turbo boost pressure is guaranteed by the MGU-H spooling the turbine itself. It is still advantageous in terms of raw power because the target boost pressure is still reached, but the exhaust gases follow a less dissipative path (ie. less backpressure to the engine, which means reduced pumping work, which means more effective power). Of course it's an extremely inefficient way to operate the ERS system, hence why it's only used in short periods of qualifying only. But it's a net increase in power.
@@KToMmi i can see it now. it's a delicate operation between the ers, mguh, mguk and total energy deployment and harvesting by mguk per lap plus the max 4mj ers soc. very clever.
No offence sir but i believe you to be wrong, underfull power the wastegates do not open, the back pressure itself is a source of more power than it losses, when chasing the maximum amount of power per drop of fuel the waste gates are firmly closed and boost is controlled by PWM Injection Events. So what causes the large noise increase? MANY MANY MANY Factors including but not limmited to: Backpressure increases (like forcing wastegates closed) Turbo hybrid power increases KERS Hybrid Power Ignition timing changes Injection pulse duration changes Increased fuel rail pressure Increased turbine speed Increased intake air velocity Pressing that overtake button changes hundreds and hundreds of engine peramiters, and i maintain at present that the wastegates are not open on a modern F1 engine in overtake mode.
But wouldnt it be wastegate closed? Wastegates control boost by bleeding excessive pressure out the system, if, as you are saying the waste gates open you are constantly by passing the exhaust gases which means less pressure getting into the turbine therefore less boost and less power.
Turbo can be electrically driven. The system alternates between traditional exhaust turbine drive and electrical. When the latter is activated… the wastegate opens. Boost without exhaust restriction… while enough electrical power is available.
i wonder if you can compare this to max's car and some other cars on the grid, also didn't FIA forbid engine maps after horner crying like a little baby over merc's party modes?
To elaborate on the other reply, the wastegate vents the exhaust before it reaches the turbocharger, which is what's normally used to control turbine speed and boost levels. As long as the wastegate is open, the turbo won't spool up, with the exception of when the MGU-H is used to effectively overspeed the turbine.
Because it's an inefficient use of the energy from the battery (since the open wastegate is being temporarily substituted by the MGU-H in power mode). If the battery was infinitely large, yes they would do it all the time, but since the amount of energy in 1 lap is limited, you need to make a choice on where to expend it, and usually the beginning of the straights is the most efficient use.
When the wastegate opens the turbo loses its boost pressure so they use the MGU-H to keep the boost and gain power from less backpressure, but keeping the turbo spooled up uses a significant amount of battery charge which is why it can't stay open the full lap.
thats quiet weird usaully wastes gates are opened to control boost pressure so the fact there opening it to let more air flow out and still maintaining boost. i suspect it could be just the sound of the engine when getting hybrid assist. you wouldn't get it going quiet on top end and going slower. its strange. wastes gate release exhaust gas passed the exhaust turbine so it controls the boost its the maximum boost is on and opens the waste gate the exhaust will flow more gas hence adding power if the boost is maintained wit h wastegate open.. but theres no rule that you could run it like this all race every lap so it has to be hybrid assist
I get where you're coming from, but not with these cars. Since everyone was able to copy Merc's split turbo concept a few years into the turbo-hybrid era, the MGU-H has been able to spin the turbo compressor without the need for the exhaust turbine. So, you would need to open the exhaust wastegate fully during this type of operation mode to lower backpressure; turbine drive pressure with nothing to drive is just backpressure, and backpressure kills power. The reason it's not operating in this mode constantly is because there's not enough battery capacity to support that and MGU-K deployment for a whole lap, much less a whole race. Hope that helps.
@@shoryuag yes i note this the fact they cant run it like this 100% of them time is the weird thing. its 10 year old tech now. it could be a blown diffuser from waste gate for all we know
Oh so it's the wastegate that causes that burble when downshifting. Very cool and interesting.
Місяць тому+1
nope, wastegate is a chamber of free "air" flowing from the engine out... not blocked by a turbine of turbo. Thus you can hear what is natural for that engine. But the wastegate itself is not making any burble.
Mate you don't have a single clue on what a wastegate does. It is in essence an exhaust gas bypass when the maximal boost limit has been met. During qualifying you notice the wastegate more because they use the most aggressive map spending all the battery to spool the turbo to it's higher threshold. Love your videos anyways
![[EN] MiniDrivers - F1 - 2024 Chinese GP](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2ibrd0ZYheQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Audio enhanced. Didn't think I could do these map vids with post-2021 onboards, but somehow the enhanced audio still gave away the wastegate-open sound. So here we are again.
My 1st maximum power map vid was from over 3 years ago: ua-cam.com/video/g9nYB57MLJY/v-deo.html
It's wild how much more difficult it is to tell in some spots compared to pre-2022. The exhaust is just a little louder now, but you can really tell on the back straight. 8 continuous seconds of deployment is wild; that poor battery.
How to listen exhaust mic?
Since you are the reference UA-camr for this technical info.
Can you get telemetry data on whether Lance was paying attention before he crashed into Daniel Riccardo although the onboard footage is pretty clear and Lance is denying that its his fault and saying Daniel brake tested him.
Would also like to know why Alonso was getting some blame for that restart
Please do the same with Max Verstappen 😮
A shame Ferrari doesn't use exhaust mic, their car has the most pronounced wastegate sound, it's very audible from the outside
What's impressive is how planted that RB is, hardly any corrections needed. A machine that is far superior to all its competitors.
Yep, combined with Max who’s an absolute machine who extracts the most out of any car he’s given, you get the unprecedented domination we have now
That's not what you see from Perez onboards tho. It's like they say in Rallying, smooth is fast. No one is smoother than Max right now.
@@jaguatiricaimediata5305 Are you pushing gillette products?
Errrr perez is driving it, its harly on the limmit, red bulls litterally DANCE when there on the limmit
@@jaguatiricaimediata5305Max literally makes the car dance all the time.
Smooth is fast but faster is dancing.
Yay the maps r back, plz do more 🙏🙏
when the VTEC kicks in bro 😏
they open the wastegate because in this situations they spin the turbocharger shaft with the electric motor (MGU-H) to get the turbocharger rev up faster. so they open the wastegate to put the exhaust gases around the charger to maximize the gasflow (iam german so this might reads kinda weird) and the engine got less resistance and might rev up faster. after few seconds, they close the wastegate and power the turbocharger by exhaust gases. that makes completely sense and shows me why iam no engineer. i would just go full pull give it all never hold back! :D
Fia will bring you back on earth with your illegal energy haha 😆😄
Your videos are excellent with good resolution.Υou had Verstappen in Brazil in 2019 onboard with the best v6 Hybrid sound of HONDA engine, but I can't find it anymore.
I think a lot of his videos got taken down due to copy right issues
@@kylerexford1311which is really sad when you think this guy really educates fans on topics that don’t really get into the live feed
@@kylerexford1311 Υes you are right, it was mentioned in a specific video because the sound from the HONDA 2019 was awesome
2021 AlphaTauri had this similar sound in accelaration. I experienced this live back in 2021 and i remember my torso was vibriting because of that AlphaTauri everytime it got past me in Quali
Very nice to see these details! Thank you!
와... 분석 진짜 미쳤다... 정말 재밌게 잘봤습니다 !!
I love this content, I hope there will be more
Great video and didnt know that😮 , thank you 💪
Insights are fascinating. Keep up the great content.
Thanks for your informative video all the times. 😊
You know what's impressive? This channel analysis, such minuscule details that this guy shows us how an F1 car works in every way possible, great job.
Sounds so good and raspy
So does a diesel bus if you stick a mic up the exhaust
@@Malc180syou must be fun at parties
Careful man, those boomers and elitists will not like your comment
@@Malc180sSeems like you never heard a real bus.
Or you're deaf.
@@reya012 Ever mic'd up a bus exhaust?
Awesome video, thank you!
It's amazing how Honda went from being distantly the worst engine in 2017 to the joint-best in 2021.
Compared to Renault who have been worst or 2nd worst for 10 years now lol.
Honda was 10 times more worse in 2014 I didn’t even made the grid in Sochi , it broke down on the parade lap GP2
@@ThaDutchDK1989 if you recall, in 2014 Renault had half of their cars retire from reliability. 2015 was Hondas first year and they only had one team using their engines to test.
Because, Red Bull! And Red Bull's engineers have a good amount of say as to what they want from Honda
I think the Ferrari engine is top, than the Mercs and than it's the Honda. It's just the RB's currently have superior chassis and aero.
I love that engine sound. Honda in a Red Bull never disappoints
Beautifully done! I just always wonder what programs you use for that.
Nice video with the map
goated videos 🔥🔥🔥
People are say this and that is impressive but what's impressive how thi guys has managed to find this out and track it so accurately
Been watching F1 for a decade and i have never seen something so detailed about something so secret
Finally, F1® Maximum Power Gap In Qualifying Session Is *BACK!* 🙌
22/04/2024 17:24 Or 05:24 PM At My Local Time.
This is very interesting. 非常に興味深い。
These answers my question. I have seen that RedBull has a very fast launching off the courner, that is when they get out of corners and even for teh start.
This is so insanely cool, to think that just this change alone would alter a lap time so significantly. If they took .1 seconds away from 1 straight and put it elsewhere, how would that affect lap times
That sound!
I really hope you can do this for other teams as well, hopefully they have exhaust mics cuz so far Redbull's engine has the most noticeable sound when the wastegate opens. I couldnt here that in the Ferrari's for example
Love the Music
my lord the alternating audio is hurting my brain
God the blown diffusers sound so good.
Not really the exhaust is right at the back and not really blowing on anything. The sound is probably from anti-lag to prevent the turbo from spooling down too much when off the throttle.
If the compressor makes 3 bar of boost, the exhaust is also making roughly 3 bar of backpressure. Running the turbo off the ES gives you 3 bar of boost but gets rid of all the back pressure you need to create that boost.
it doesn't matter if you got 3 bar of boost with 3 bar of backpressure or 3 bar of boost with no back pressure or 6bar of boost with 3 bar of backpressure. the fuel flow is the limiting factor of horsepower.
@roku_nine You don't think removing pumping losses help crankshaft power? My friend, a basic introduction to combustion engines is in order. 30% of the engine power is wasted as pumping losses and friction.
Excellent vid,any idea y wastegate not open out of turn14 hairpin,slow corner???
Such fucking BAD ASS technology
my favorite youtuber, no joke
They aren't a youtuber
please make more videos like this
It’s not the wastegate being opened, the mgu-h is spinning up and no-longer acting as a muffler.
How do you know that?
Yeah and how do you power the MGU-H (hence, power the turbine) without generating excessive boost pressure that would destroy the engine? Yep, by opening the wastegate. If there's one category of people that I hate, it's those people who correct knowledgeable people stating right information with bullshit things.
great spot!
Seen them for previous years, but I feel like we need an up to date PU comparison using acceleration data.
So interesting video. You could also make the same with other egine manufacturers and eventually compare them. Great work!
Crazy to think old F1 hit 20rpm
Just curious, is the wastegates opening and closing automatically (through a throttle pressure, from the car itself) or done from the driver themselves (via: a button of some kind)?
It's a bit of both, in qualifying it's automated, but in the race the drivers manually use their overtake button to get access to it.
The louder sound is from the exhaust not the wastegate, the wastegate will be noisier at lower power/boost as its venting more if you get my drift
I would say with the wastegate opened it's "hissing" more, a bit louder to my ears.
awesome
Honda ICE have very pronounced ALS (Anti Lag Strategy). More than any other from the grid
I really wonder how ers actually works in Q...basicly they use electric power whole time..and on other hand they have something more to deploy /use??
Would love to see how would the W11 do on this track
Are you able to do a comparison with Max’s onboard? Very curious to see if both cars have the same mapping
One thing I noticed is that the exhaust opened exiting turn 16 only when starting the lap, not when finishing it.. First, why? And second, how much time is that worth?
Im surprised they don't bypass the turbo slightly and use the mgu-h to recover energy to mitigate the need for the wastegate.
I guess its probably due to the restricted ERS deployment time.
That makes you wonder though, how much more energy the power unit could deploy if the time wasn't restricted?
1:58 sounds good ngl
So basically the mguh keeps the turbo’s high rpm scalability, but adding a supercharger like response. But car also opens the wastegate in mid rpm, along with a underboost code😂
Honda Powah!!!
Is it me or do the exhaust mics sound worse compared to previous years
its not only you
its only you
In '22 dedicated the dedicated wastegate pipes have been removed completely.
they've sounded worse from 2021 but particularly 2022
Not totally true. Max’s Abu Dhabi 2023’s pole lap is what you’re looking for in terms of sounding amazing. It seems Abu Dhabi is one of the few places that use the old mic positioning setup for some reason. Go watch that and then see what I’m talking about.
Why is the max power only used such a short time? Because of the fuel restriction?
The 3.9s on the main straight seem extremly short
dang i thought the kettle was on
Why not open the wastegate all the way? Do they only use it to get the car up to speed much quicker?
not a engineer but I think it's so that the turbo is also spun by the exhaust gasses and not only by the MGU-H. Effectively using less energy while also allowing the engine to output as much power (and thus exhaust gas) as possible
2:38 uses too much battery
@mierenmans881 I think it's more because the acceleration phase is usually more important, so with a limited amount of battery, they have to choose their spots for deployment. Once the wastegate closes again, I imagine the MGU-H is back in generator mode, and the turbine is spinning the turbo again. The whole point of opening the wastegate is the added power from reduced backpressure, so they wouldn't still be deploying the MGU-H while the wastegate is closed; it'd be a waste of battery.
@@shoryuag opening the wastegate would cause the boost pressure to drop thus reducing power.
@@roku_nine In a normal car with turbo; yes.
But in F1 they currently use a MGU-H, and this is the crucial difference. Also the explaination by OP is flawed. The wastegate is opened to reduce backpressure, and in a normal car this would "deactivate" the turbo. But here they use the MGU-H to spin the turbo up as well as opening the wastegate. So they get reduced backpressure as well as turbo boost. Spinning the turbo via the MGU-H uses a lot energy from the battery so they can only run this mode very briefly. 2nd most power will be created (considering only ICE+turbo and MGU-H) would be MGU-H assisted turbo spool-up while wastegate closed, don't know if this is used though. 3rd most would be wastegate closed and no assist or regen' from MGU-H, essentially like a normal turbo car.
Can you compare this to lets say Merc or Ferarri?
Why it didn't open for the last corner during the lap? It opened before starting the lap..
can you do the same for Verstappen? Would like to know if they run same settings, probably are
Since they're in the same team, it definitely should be the same.
I think they should find a way to make the cars louder in future regs, even if they don't change the engines back. That would help the cars feel better to the audience, anyway
Allegedly the 2026 cars will be a bit louder than the current cars. They’re gonna increase the rpm limit by a little bit and they’re getting rid of the MGU-H too. Which restricts the exhaust and noise the car makes.
@@Jabba.Da.Hutt_ There is no longer an RPM limit at all in the technical regulations, however the 12500 RPM maximum you see is due to fuel flow limits. In fact, as ICE maximum fuel flow is supposed to be lower in 2026, the maximum revs might be lower
Opening the wastegate will reduce the inlet pressure, so the turbine will revolve slower,wich means less horsepower..
It's confusing 🤔
The turbo is also electrically driven.
No expert, but: Inlet pressure would be higher if you had no wastegate, yes. But if the pressure in the exhaust pipe is too high, less exhaust gas can be sucked out of the cylinder. And if exhaust gas remains in the engine for another cycle, there is less space for fresh air, even if you have more turbo pressure. So the power output is reduced.
@@007CF make sense
Thx
Opening a wastegate is how you limit boost, closing a wastegate would increase power.
is the driver activating it or the engineer/ pit crew?
Aah yes do for the other engine manufacturers
TRacter nyc
downshift noise is pure sex
So what's the downside of backpressure then? If they don't use it all lap?
Normally in a turbocharged car, you use the engine exhaust pressure to spin the turbo. F1 cars can use their battery as an alternate means to spin it, but it draws a lot of power when the car is at maximum power so it can't stay open perpetually.
On a 4-stroke engine, backpressure reduces both power and efficiency by restricting exhaust flow. On a naturally aspirated engine it's actually possible to get _negative_ backpressure with good exhaust design, but on a turbo car it's an inevitability you just have to deal with.
Why isn't the wastegate always open? What's the downside?
We cannot get the power map of SF24 because it has no exaust mic?
Maybe because it has no power 😜
So does this mean the cars are louder than previous years? Since they last used the wastegates in 2021 right?
The wastegates have been there the whole time. During the 2016-2021 seasons, they just had a separate exhaust pipe for it. Wastegates not only control the amount of drive pressure used to spin the compressor or MGU-H, but they're also a pressure safety valve in case the MGU-H fails.
@@shoryuagAh okay thanks mate! I indeed remember there being a seperate little pipe on top of the exhaust. That’s gone now indeed.
@@Dani-iz5sh Cheers. Have a good day.
Why is it Verstappen engine note sounds smoother and almost muted compared to Perez?
Always prefer this sound to Verstappen car from previous race weekend as it sounds watered down even though Verstappen is still outperforming Perez on merit.
Why would they get off of maximum acceleration before the breaking zone? You can clearly hear the car is still accelerating after they stop maximum acceleration. You might think they would want maximum acceleration the whole time on the straight .
In the opening wording, you have no. Mention of battery power. This led me to believe maximum power was only maximum boost. I see my mistake. However, the text is a little misleading.
you have to recharge the battery sometimes... and that times are the rest of the straights
Track No or off sistem 😂🎉
How maximum power when wastegate opens ? When wastegate opens the turbo produce less boost it doesn't make sense.
yeah, on ALL other Turbo cars when the Wastegate is OPEN there is very little or NO Boost, I think there explanation is not "correct"..
They open the wastegate to release the backpressure than use the MGU-H to spin the turbo keeping boost and adding the benefit of reduced backpressure at the expense of battery level.
They have a boost limit I’m sure this is how wastegate controls boost, the explanation needs a lil tweaking. They open wastegate once maximum boost level is reached & this happens differently because turbo is being spun by ele in addition to exh energy. Add the ele boost when it is utilized to maximum then engine only prob doesn’t produce enough boost to open wastegate, maximum efficiency
@@scottyywastaken it doesn't matter, the power is limited by the fuel flow, not the amount of boost (or reduced backpressure)
He used it in the exit of corners
why do F1 restrict waste gate usage?
Why engine honda so good....
So In qualifying they don’t need to press overtake on corner exit it’s automated?
Yes
Yes. During the race, the driver hits Overtake on their steering wheel to enable this max ERS mode, where the MGU-H drives the split turbo unit solely by itself at much higher speeds than just the exhaust gas can, using energy from the battery. This means the exhaust gas coming from the enine is no longer needed to drive the turbine of the turbo and can be let out to the atmostsphere. A wastegate opens up and lets this exhaust out, making the cars exhaust sound much louder and raw becuase there's no turbine in-between anymore.
During QP, the car is in a different ERS mode where the team has already maps points on the track where this full power mode is activated, the driver does not need to press any buttons.
@@Dinara1upVery deep explanation. Thank you so much
@@Dinara1upSo in qualy it is "programmed" depending on where the car is in the different parts of the circuit?
Yes@@IVNNsp
Wouldn't the wastegate being closed make more power? That's how it works regularly.
you've got the terminology wrong. opening the wastegate causes the boost pressure to maintain or drop (not rising) thus limiting the power. closing the wastegate shut would cause the boost pressure to rise and produce more power (if fuel is enough) however would overstress the power unit/engine. there's a cheap street modification where people would weld the internal wastegate shut to produce more hp however risking a blowout.
Check the video ending for explanation on turbo boost upon open wastegate.
Nothing is wrong in his terminology. Yes, the wastegate is being fully opened in those periods. The turbo boost pressure is guaranteed by the MGU-H spooling the turbine itself. It is still advantageous in terms of raw power because the target boost pressure is still reached, but the exhaust gases follow a less dissipative path (ie. less backpressure to the engine, which means reduced pumping work, which means more effective power). Of course it's an extremely inefficient way to operate the ERS system, hence why it's only used in short periods of qualifying only. But it's a net increase in power.
@@KToMmi i can see it now. it's a delicate operation between the ers, mguh, mguk and total energy deployment and harvesting by mguk per lap plus the max 4mj ers soc. very clever.
No offence sir but i believe you to be wrong, underfull power the wastegates do not open, the back pressure itself is a source of more power than it losses, when chasing the maximum amount of power per drop of fuel the waste gates are firmly closed and boost is controlled by PWM Injection Events.
So what causes the large noise increase? MANY MANY MANY Factors including but not limmited to:
Backpressure increases (like forcing wastegates closed)
Turbo hybrid power increases
KERS Hybrid Power
Ignition timing changes
Injection pulse duration changes
Increased fuel rail pressure
Increased turbine speed
Increased intake air velocity
Pressing that overtake button changes hundreds and hundreds of engine peramiters, and i maintain at present that the wastegates are not open on a modern F1 engine in overtake mode.
But wouldnt it be wastegate closed? Wastegates control boost by bleeding excessive pressure out the system, if, as you are saying the waste gates open you are constantly by passing the exhaust gases which means less pressure getting into the turbine therefore less boost and less power.
Turbo can be electrically driven. The system alternates between traditional exhaust turbine drive and electrical. When the latter is activated… the wastegate opens. Boost without exhaust restriction… while enough electrical power is available.
@@thiswillprobhrt thought they can no longer do that because there is no longer an MGU H
Dont forget red bull drivers can use the ers 2x times more than other drivers because they pay the FIA😉
Souns like blowed gas
There is no overtake button .. it’s not formula Palmer ..
Is it automated?
yes says at the start auto-engaged by the ecu
or RB20 SSJ3 mode
i wonder if you can compare this to max's car and some other cars on the grid, also didn't FIA forbid engine maps after horner crying like a little baby over merc's party modes?
why cant the f1 games sound like this
334 km
Why is the wastegate not kept open all the time?
it would be battery-operated turbo only in that case
To elaborate on the other reply, the wastegate vents the exhaust before it reaches the turbocharger, which is what's normally used to control turbine speed and boost levels. As long as the wastegate is open, the turbo won't spool up, with the exception of when the MGU-H is used to effectively overspeed the turbine.
Because it's an inefficient use of the energy from the battery (since the open wastegate is being temporarily substituted by the MGU-H in power mode). If the battery was infinitely large, yes they would do it all the time, but since the amount of energy in 1 lap is limited, you need to make a choice on where to expend it, and usually the beginning of the straights is the most efficient use.
Noob question, why not just keep the waste gate open all the time?
When the wastegate opens the turbo loses its boost pressure so they use the MGU-H to keep the boost and gain power from less backpressure, but keeping the turbo spooled up uses a significant amount of battery charge which is why it can't stay open the full lap.
thats quiet weird usaully wastes gates are opened to control boost pressure so the fact there opening it to let more air flow out and still maintaining boost. i suspect it could be just the sound of the engine when getting hybrid assist. you wouldn't get it going quiet on top end and going slower. its strange. wastes gate release exhaust gas passed the exhaust turbine so it controls the boost its the maximum boost is on and opens the waste gate the exhaust will flow more gas hence adding power if the boost is maintained wit h wastegate open.. but theres no rule that you could run it like this all race every lap so it has to be hybrid assist
I get where you're coming from, but not with these cars. Since everyone was able to copy Merc's split turbo concept a few years into the turbo-hybrid era, the MGU-H has been able to spin the turbo compressor without the need for the exhaust turbine. So, you would need to open the exhaust wastegate fully during this type of operation mode to lower backpressure; turbine drive pressure with nothing to drive is just backpressure, and backpressure kills power. The reason it's not operating in this mode constantly is because there's not enough battery capacity to support that and MGU-K deployment for a whole lap, much less a whole race. Hope that helps.
@@shoryuag yes i note this the fact they cant run it like this 100% of them time is the weird thing. its 10 year old tech now. it could be a blown diffuser from waste gate for all we know
its very odd
What do you guys think, how much hp does the Honda PU have in qualy trim? My guess around 1100!
Oh so it's the wastegate that causes that burble when downshifting. Very cool and interesting.
nope, wastegate is a chamber of free "air" flowing from the engine out... not blocked by a turbine of turbo. Thus you can hear what is natural for that engine. But the wastegate itself is not making any burble.
Codemaster, do your job
Send to Mercedes Team! Maybe they learn someting....
All that for only "10 to 20" hp
Mate you don't have a single clue on what a wastegate does. It is in essence an exhaust gas bypass when the maximal boost limit has been met. During qualifying you notice the wastegate more because they use the most aggressive map spending all the battery to spool the turbo to it's higher threshold. Love your videos anyways