Two short remarks: First, the Baade 152 should be equipped with "Pirna 014" engines, a modernized version of world's first mass-produced turbojet "Jumo 004" which was called after the Dresden suburb "Pirna" where ist was produced. The aircraft engine manufacturerer from Berlin was Bramo. The first two 152-flights were undertaken with russain engines due to delayed availability of the Pirna engine. Second, the manufacturer of the Baade 152 of course still exists (current Name: Elbe Flugzeugwerke) now being part of Airbus and manufacturing all cargo Airbuses.
I wouldn't call Pirna a suburb, because a suburb is something very else. Pirna is a rather small town not far away from Dresden. (A suburb is mainly defined as some kind of incomplete appendix to a larger city, which lacks part of the infrastructure a town needs, but uses the infrastructure of the larger city nearby.)
This was the last Junkers jet, just called Baade because the Engineer Mr Baade (Former an engineer of Junkers Dessau) was father of the project ;-) The Prina Turbojets were Junkers Jumo 012 further developments
Failure is the stepping stone to success. It leads to progress, and progress leads to excellence. Superb content my mate. Keep going good. All the best.
It's so hilarious how you pronounced VEB Flugzeugwerke :D By the way:VEB is an acronym for 'people owned plant' which was the common legal entity for state owned buisnesses in east germany.
@@FoundAndExplained In the Verkehrsmuseum Dresden (Dresden Traffic Museum), it's called the "Typ 152" or even just the number 152. Its engines were actually called Pirna 014, after the nearby small town of Pirna. I've never seen the plane called other than 152 or Typ 152 locally around Dresden. All the names like Baade 152 or Dresden 152 I've only encountered since the 2000s. But I've seen a Pirna 014 mounted on the back of a firetruck used as a blower to extinguish high pressure gas pipeline fires. PS: One product coming out of VEB Flugzeugwerke were the bobsleds used successfully in Olympic Bobsled competitions and World championships since 1976 by former East Germany.
@@dmrr7739 You couldnt even run a turbojet on a mass air flow that small. At least not any turbojet of a sufficient size to power that plane. And a turbojet is a zero bypass engine. Cant get any smaller than that.
When I look at the other GDR products, I assume that they would have perfected the thing and been ahead of the competition for a decade. After that, they would have continued development but would never upedate the production, so the thing would still have been flying in 1989 as a hugely outdated machine.
The 1953 popular uprising didn't happen in the USSR, it happend in East Germany. The involvement of the soviets was 'limited' to killing a lot of people and ultimately quashing the protests.
@@Leonid_Brezhnev1 Lol go back to pointlessly dying in the fields of Ukraine with your fellow fascists thanks to broken equipment from endemic corruption. Kthxbai.
Dresden was a KGB (USSR Secret service) base that once employed an officer by the name of Vladimir Putin. When the Wall came down and East Germans were celebrating on the streets in their cities, this guy stepped outside his office, shot into the air with his service pistol and told those assembled to their surprise in harsh German words to go home and stop this nonsense. Say no more ...
The USSR was always afraid of free market competition and the 152 was competition. Perhaps the USSR should have left it alone as the firm's emphasis was mostly on civil aviation with western technology that could of assisted them with aircraft development. ( both military & civilian) It would have allowed the USSR to focus on military aircraft development too.
The Baade 152 overhead wing configuration makes this aircraft most interesting as future design points in this direction for long heavy haulers. Likely the concept of dynamic fuel flow was not fully understood causing the fuel starvation issue. Likely if it entered the market with the critical issue solved it would not of served long but the next development would have been a market changer.
A competitor to Boeing and Airbus? That's ridiculous. If having a protected domestic market were an advantage, then Ilyushin, Tupolev, Yakolev, and others would now dominate the world. They don't. Protected markets do not produce competitive products. Also, the terms "Eastern Bloc" and "Soviet Union" can't be used interchangeably. While East Germany was indeed a Soviet client state and the Soviets wielded a great deal of control there, it was never actually part of the Soviet Union itself.
Research a bit further, please. Until Gorbachev did come unto the scene, any Eastern Government was nothing more than an administrative arm of the USSR.
@@FoundAndExplained He's wrong. You dont see competition to boeing and airbus not because of a protected market "stIfLiNg InnOvaTioN" but because liberal reformers like Gaidar and Chubais destroyed the aviation industry among many others. "Why make our own when we can buy from the west" was the dominant attitude of post-soviet politicians. @thies7831 what research? They were separate countries and had more independent foreign policies than modern european states.
The name of the plane is actually only 152, without the Baade. Brunolf Baade was the head of construction, but his name was not included. And it's only in recent years that the "Baade-152" pops up here and there, probably to be more in line with naming conventions that include either the company name or the name of the chief engineer.
My grandma worked on that airplane! He was amazed to see that there's articles and even VIDEOS online on the project he worked on as a young engineer. The official reason for why the plane was scaped, that the design didn't work out, was also what he told us. He passed away half a year ago, while he was still writing a book about his life. I wonder if there's more insight on this project in what he wrote this far
@@jonannesfleischer9994 Hey, you just find out how it IS said. It's easy. Its called the Internet. This guy's a Shwanz. Im English and I can spell and say it properly in both languages.
Would love to see a video on the Vickers VC-10 and Ilyushin Il-62. Controversy of espionage , safety records , etc. Love the content of your videos. Thank you for all the work put into them .
The East German state airline was actually called "Deutsche Lufthansa" while the west German was/is "Lufthansa", before the East German was replaced by Interflug.
All good. It just shows your age. Any baby boomer in West Germany growing up with an interest in aviation was raving on about "that pile of DDR junk" (Haufen DDR Schrott). As nothing remarkable did come after it, it was clear that any aviation progress would not develop from there despite having snatched a lot of remarkable engineers from pre-war Germany. It was a problem of the planned economy. Instead of constantly pushing forward, supplies often dictated the pace. When the Wall came down the question was solved how East Germany was "World Production Leader of Industrial Robots". Their serial numbers rapidly went into the 10000 range. Once built and released to manufacturing companies on average they lasted about 2 months. After a complete overhaul, they were fitted with a new serial number and returned as a "NEW" item ... In 1981 one of our professors in Industrial Design speculated, that Germany reunited could have the potential of a computer super-power. The East Germans had plenty of dreams and time to ponder over software problems, while the West German companies had the know-how of reliable mass production of any hardware. Somehow, since 1990 something has not matched ...
It's quite common for the Soviet Union to convert military aircraft into a passenger version, these projects have obviously had varied levels of success....
Some consider the fuel tank reasoning to be an excuse, since there had been other incidents and accidents where test-pilots tried to impress their bosses on the ground by flying dangerously.
There are 2 engines per casing. Making a total of 4 engines. This is less fuel efficient than having only 2 slightly bigger more powerful engines. Because more engines = higher fuel consumption (obviously). But also more frequent maintenance. And higher overall maintenance costs. Just to name a few things. There is a plethora of other disadvantages as well.
Come again, please, when you understand the planned economy of East Germany. On delivery the aircraft would have been handed over with 2 working engines and 2 rotating fans in the other sections of the pods. In that scheme it would have been reported that the number of aircraft even overfulfilled the plan. Nothing would have been mentioned about every second aircraft quietly being shunted into a hangar "for training purposes". There the working engines would have been transferred to the "other every second aircraft" for getting them operational. Suddenly one would have noticed that the engine company overfulfilled their production plan just to supply the missing engines. And maybe find enough material for some spare engines. By the time the plans for the production of the 152 were fulfilled, the aircraft would have reached its working life span.
Some ideas for future episodes: The West-Germans also designed two unusual jets, the VFW-Fokker 614 with engines above the wings, and the HFB 320 Hansa Jet with forward swept wings, both not commercially successful.
@@donaldstanfield8862 It was meant to be the illusive replacement of the DC-3 bringing the jet age to the bush environment, being able to operate from gravel runways without ingesting any risky material into the engines. Unfortunately, lack of government support had VFW (Vereinigte Flugtechnische Werke) being sold off to Fokker, which gave their F28 (later F70 and F100) the priority of their attention. Had Airbus had more strength in those days (they were just running in at that time with their A300s and A310s), the 614 could have been a more successful product in the recently launched A200 range.
The same thing Russia did to Ukrainian An-148 program. Just ditched previously signed agreements and refused to build the aircraft in favor of Superjet.
@@Admin-gm3lc that is Russian understanding of protectionism - very near-sighted. An-148 might have been a better choice for Russian airlines, especially the ones operating in northern regions. However, Russia decided to favor Superjet, force it on domestic airlines and now - voila - only 2 are built in 2021. And I don't think any are sold. And airlines do not know what to do with ones they have because they are breaking way too often.
@@volodymyrdrobot9454 You collected only three AN-148s for yourself. Russia assembled and delivered 41 aircraft in Voronezh. At the moment, 27 units remain in operation in Russia.
@@volodymyrdrobot9454 The last AN-148 was released in Orel, in 2017, or in 2018, I don’t remember. Earlier, Ukraine announced an embargo on the sale of engines and technologies to the Russian Federation. Do you seriously think that Russia did not predict the situation in Ukraine and did not draw adequate conclusions? Your conclusion about the fact that in the Russian Federation they have relied on the SSJ100 is generally ridiculous, these are aircraft for different purposes.
Thx great Video! You did better than most others that made a video about the Baade 152 - and you named different reasons to why it whouldn't succeed . 10:00 Also one could add, that the only Hull left of the baade 152 is on display at the dresden Airport Museeum next to the Company :D Also to the crash of the Prototype - as far as I know, investigators didn't believed that the engines stalled, but, that the testpilot went to low at a low power setting , and then engines took to long to spool up after he noticed his mistake but anyway we will never know ^^
1:43 Galway is not Ireland's Capital Dublin is Galway is on the west coast, cork on the south, Belfast in the north and DUBLIN in the east. Ps I am Irish btw
excellent video and kudos to those engineers who decided to come with that innovative idea and do something instead of losing hope doing nothing. Could you make a video of the 747SP ?
The Boeing 747SP is my favourite jumbo jet. My ultimate fantasy would be to buy a scrapped one, set it on a nice piece of land surrounded by trees, and turn it into a completely luxurious living apartment on the inside - with a rear ramp for a drive in garage for at least 2 cars! 😀
So I noticed you dont have fighter jets but im still gonna mention it. The Convair Model 200: a US navy jump jet from the 60's. It was a concept but never built.
Actually it was developed in the early 70's. However Convair after loosing it's butt on the 880/990 program moved to being a sub contractor for airline parts. After the mid 60's it didn't produce anymore planes. Interestingly Convair built the center section fuselage for the MD-11 until MD was bought by Boeing.
It never had a chance. It was inferior to and came out after the French Caravelle, American Boeing 707-120 (not to mention the trouble plagued de Havilland Comet) and about the same time as the far more capable B-720. It may have had some success in the east if the Russians had not killed it but it is doubtful it would have seen much success in the west. Maybe with some other regions such as Africa or South America but the French, British and Americans had far superior products to offer plus better worldwide logistical networks and support systems.
Don't focus too much on the release year of 1958. The development phase did cover a lot of years well before that date and even had German engineering ideas from before 1945.
When you set the engines far below the center of mass, as here, you get a significant upward pitching moment when you power up. That's a terrible "feature" if you need to increase airspeed to avoid a stall, since pitching the nose up will increase angle of attack and tend to accelerate the stall. This can be mitigated, of course, by using the elevator to pitch down as you add power, but it can still be a serious problem, not least because at certain angles of attack, you can lose control authority on the elevator. (The elevator can enter the turbulent air coming off the wings, which reduces the effect of control surface movements. You really want to keep your thrust vector as near the CoM as possible.
wait... most of the modern passenger aircraft have engines far below center of mass. engine is the lowest part of aircraft in most cases if it doesnt have rear mounted engine.
This clip lacks some points. Besides constructing the Baade 152, VEB Flugzeugwerke Dresden built some 80 Iljushin IL-14 under licence, the OKB150 Bomber was based on the blue prints of an original WWII german disign for a bomber by Heinkel which never made it into production. The Baade which crashed was supposed to do a fly past at the Leipziger industrial fair. One of the attendees was Khruschev. After the Baade project was cancelled, VEB continued the overhaul of airplanes (mostly Mig´s) right to the end of the DDR. After the reunification the west german aerospace company DASA got hold of it and produced parts for the Fokker F100 until the demise of Fokker in 1996.
Well the design crashed, so its hard to say if it was good. And it was based on a military bomber, so you might notice that the engines are not powerful enough (hence four, not two), and that the center of gravity is too high. I love the bubble cockpit though!
@@FoundAndExplained Only the 1st prototype had a glass nose cockpit, tandem main gear and also older Soviet engines. That all changed from the 2nd prototype onwards. However after just a few flights of the later prototype the program was cancelled for several reasons. I think you missed to mention that in your video.
The Baade 152 was never a Soviet aircraft although the largest market was seen in the USSR. It was wholly developed and made in the GDR despite taking some concept ideas from a Soviet bomber. ... and the Pirna 014 engine has no relation to Berlin. It was developed in the city of Pirna (just south of Dresden) as a direct successor of the Junkers Jumo 012 turbojet by former Junkers engineers.
Brought it "to the Soviet Union"? That sounds a bit strange. Germany (DDR) was not part of the Soviet Union. It was allied with the USSR, of course, part of the Warsaw pact, etc. That's quite different from being an actual part of the USSR on the same level as Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, and other former Soviet states.
The maingear being the second most expensive equipment on the inventory is a persuasive reason why we do not see many high wing aircraft. Although there are aerodynamic benefits from high wing designs, which could lead to higher efficiencies and cheaper operation. These decisions led them to the bicycle maingear layout which, while uncommon on commercial aircraft is seen on military applications of the era quite a lot. I think the bicycle mains would be very durable and track straighter on icy runways. All that said Im a little baffled why the engine pylons bring the engines so low, and where a lot less structure here makes the aircraft seem to 'look right', would be lighter and less costly.
I can see a lot of B52 in this. Outrigger landing gear, high wing, tail, twin pod engines of course… did some “technology exchange research” take place one way or the other ?
The engine intakes look off, seems like you modelled the look of the removable cover for use while being parked outside onto the intakes, instead of modeling the actual engine intake.
No that's what the B152 / II V1's pods looked like, the V4 version were more normal looking. I think with the engines so close to the ground, those funning front ends were to avoid foreign material ingestion
It's a shame we never found out how this aircraft would perform. I do however have my doubts initialy for the following reasons 1) The landing gear under the belly configuration results in a pretty low crosswind limit. 2) The huge engine pod mountings act as a huge rudder, nice to assist when an engine fails at low speed (TakeOff) But it will make the aircraft difficult to controll along the top axis (direction control) 3) Engine configuration to expensive, and untested engines expecting to be unreliable. Still i think the Sovjets made a mistake by not supporting the idea, as USSR developed aircraft where not realy suitable for the western marked (while the wessies not realy could cope with Rusian airport conditions at the time) The Baade 152 how odd the design may be, on the long term probarly would have been interesting for some niche market.\ . Talking about a niche: How about the plan once a came up at the Dutch Fokker Aircraft company to build a Fokker F27 Seaplane. Also the same company was elaborating on a 737/320 alike competitor
2:55 😂😂 You pronounce "Flugzeugwerke" like Vugze Verger. I'm from Germany and I can tell you, our pronunciation and yours doesn't sound just a bit similar. But German is a very hard language for most not German speaking people to pronounce right I guess. But it's still very funny for me.
It's real intended competitor was the French Sud Aviation Caravelle, but if he had put that in the headline most people would have gone ????? and not clicked.
@@CaptHollister The 152 was not aimed to compete with Western aircrafts. It was rather targeted to compete with Tupolev TU-124 and Ilyushin IL-18. (A headline that leads the clicks to zero.)
02:57 "VEB Flugzeugwerke." ...I would pronounce it, "V-E-B FLOOGzoig-Vairkuh", which means, "V.E.B. Aircraft Works". (I'm not a fluent German speaker; I only took a couple of years of high school German.)
I think that the fuel management problem would not be that hard to fix. Russia did not want its colonies to compete in the aviation market is the sole reason for the plane's demise.
When you talk about the East Germans being licensed to produce Soviet-era piston planes, you are showing video of the TU-114, which was the airliner version of the TU-95 Bear bomber. The TU-114 was probably the fastest propeller airliner of all time, but it was a turboprop and didn't use piston engines.
Ah forgive me you are correct. My mistake. It was footage from the airport where the Baade was being built (dresden) so i assumed that it was aircraft manufactured there, while more likely it was an aircraft from Moscow flying in VIPs
USSR had many of its designers and engineers in the field of aviation. USSR had its own design schools. No German engineers did work at Soviet factories. They all fled to the West. It was the West who has always exploited other people's human resources and not the USSR
Sounds to me like it was the USSR exploiting it’s populace that led them to flee to the free west in the first place... that’s not exploitation, it’s salvation from exploitation.
@@joshuastory7365 West is not free its rich West is rich because it exploits "other people's human resources" There is no connection between escape of a part of the German population and the economy of the USSR This is the result of the crimes of Western politicians especially of american esteblishment who brought Hitler to power Who gave him money
@@viptal6313 I didn't say there was a connection between the economy of the USSR and the desperation of most of it's citizenry to escape it. The reason so many people wanted to flee the USSR was it's totalitarian regime which limited basic freedoms and ruled by fear- one side effect of this did happen to be poor economic conditions. You seem to be more concerned with ranting about the perceived evils of the west than with an evaluation of the motives of German captives. While it is true that for a large chunk of history starting in the early renaissance Western nations rose to the top of exploitative nations, that's not exactly what was at play in this particular scenario. The west's free-thinking philosophies, one of the few developments actually brought about by native westerners and not stolen from others, created the environment for success and wealth of the degree we see in western nations today. That freedom creates the opportunity for success and wealth which improves the quality of life of people able to grasp it. While there could be a legitimate debate about the accessibility of that opportunity for different people groups due to discrimination, intelligent german engineers certainly would have certainly fallen into that category at that time. There is in fact a quite large connection between western freedom and the desire to leave the USSR. That hitler thing came out of nowhere and I'm not sure how it ties into this. If you're referring to the attempts to try and foster peace between the Nazis and the world prior to the first world war, those are pretty generally regarded as diplomatic disasters and terrible decisions, but I fail to see the connection here.
Did these come with a pressurized cabin? Many bombers from that era didn´t, meaning the passengers would either need an oxygen mask, or the plane flying low to provide breathable air thus using way more fuel. Converting to pressurized may have been too complicated, since it involves the entire airframe. It may have contributed to its demise..
If you ever want to see that unique airplane in action and other models from that East German company - it exist as a mod on transportfever.net - made for Transport Fever 2. It’s truly one of a kind!
Years ago, somebody modelled it for FS2004. I offloaded it after a few trials. It constantly crashed on landing. The moment the wheels touched the runway, the 152 just blew up.
There were plans to make a passenger version of Handley Page's Victor bomber, though this never came about. Interestingly the aircraft makes an appearance in the 1963 British comedy film The Iron Maiden where the promise of the films was an attempt to sell the passenger version to a US airline president. Talk about product placement.
They did live to their potential, and that's why these jet projects failed, Soviets were lagging behind in aerospace and because relationships greatly worsen when the Soviets dare to defend America's backyard (Cuba) from becoming a puppet state while already took part in the Korean conflict, East Germany would be likely unable to buy necessary tech from the West to keep up with competition outside Soviet Union where demand for jet travel was limited due to poor economy model, so no, definitely not a threat to Boeing or companies that become Airbus... Soviets would likely kill by the political pressure any too successful aerospace project made by their satellites that would make Russians look too incompetent anyway especially if it could threaten the production of Russian-made alternatives they would like to force on states under their rule. Hell, Russians sabotaging gas exploration projects of nations around them up to the present day, including the attempt of Ukraine to collaborate with Westen companies on exploiting their gas reserves a few years ago...
2:24 at the time, the bomber - a copy of the Douglas B-66, was attributed to Ilyushin & designated ''Blowlamp'' in NATOse. The sovs never developed it & kept to their Ilyushin Il-28 bombers.
Your modeling is getting really good, Mustards gotta watch out lol
Maybe they should collab
@@Thecrazzedgamer yeah that could be cool
He is getting really good but imo mustard is way ahead but hey he’ll definitely get to that point in the future
@@drxppsyy3214 yeah I mean I was joking to an extent
Personally I can't hold a candle to channels like Wendover, Mustard, Sidenote and more, but I hope to one day make a video as good as theirs :)
Two short remarks: First, the Baade 152 should be equipped with "Pirna 014" engines, a modernized version of world's first mass-produced turbojet "Jumo 004" which was called after the Dresden suburb "Pirna" where ist was produced. The aircraft engine manufacturerer from Berlin was Bramo.
The first two 152-flights were undertaken with russain engines due to delayed availability of the Pirna engine.
Second, the manufacturer of the Baade 152 of course still exists (current Name: Elbe Flugzeugwerke) now being part of Airbus and manufacturing all cargo Airbuses.
A modernized Jumo 004 was completely obsolete by the late fifties. May a license built Klimov VK-1 ( Rolls Royce Nene) would have been a good start,
Amazing the facility is useful now! 🎯
I wouldn't call Pirna a suburb, because a suburb is something very else. Pirna is a rather small town not far away from Dresden. (A suburb is mainly defined as some kind of incomplete appendix to a larger city, which lacks part of the infrastructure a town needs, but uses the infrastructure of the larger city nearby.)
Looks ugly and the specs sound dumb.
This was the last Junkers jet, just called Baade because the Engineer Mr Baade (Former an engineer of Junkers Dessau) was father of the project ;-) The Prina Turbojets were Junkers Jumo 012 further developments
Failure is the stepping stone to success. It leads to progress, and progress leads to excellence. Superb content my mate. Keep going good. All the best.
But this thing didn't lead to anything
This channel is fantastic. One of the easiest subs I’ve had
You're the best! Hope you enjoy the rest of the videos on the channel :)
Lol 69 likes
It's so hilarious how you pronounced VEB Flugzeugwerke :D
By the way:VEB is an acronym for 'people owned plant' which was the common legal entity for state owned buisnesses in east germany.
In fact the plane was officially called the Dresden 152, but the bade nickname stuck
@@FoundAndExplained In the Verkehrsmuseum Dresden (Dresden Traffic Museum), it's called the "Typ 152" or even just the number 152. Its engines were actually called Pirna 014, after the nearby small town of Pirna. I've never seen the plane called other than 152 or Typ 152 locally around Dresden. All the names like Baade 152 or Dresden 152 I've only encountered since the 2000s.
But I've seen a Pirna 014 mounted on the back of a firetruck used as a blower to extinguish high pressure gas pipeline fires.
PS: One product coming out of VEB Flugzeugwerke were the bobsleds used successfully in Olympic Bobsled competitions and World championships since 1976 by former East Germany.
@@SiqueScarface VEB Strömungsmaschinen Pirna Sonnenstein ;)
@@Phonobrain I know. A relative of mine was an engineer at the Department of Fluid mechanics at the Technical University of Dresden.
@@SiqueScarface Cool! I studied there as well ( humanities tho). I've been born in Pirna - now living in Dresden. Tell your relative I said "Hi" :-)
Ah yes, the "VEB Fluwsuwwerwe"
Nah, It's clearly the "VEB Wutzewörge"
@@Gerhard57NL Yeah or you could do 10 seconds research and find this video ua-cam.com/video/gnguNuryjIM/v-deo.html lol
It means Volkseigene Flugzeugweft Dresden!!!
It's "VEB Flugzeugwerke Dresden" 😉
@@uh7385 I know
Great video again, thanks a lot. I love the way you said Flugzeugwerke :-) Greetings from Cologne
V.E.B. Foutsuh-vurgah! (I came looking for this comment. FLOOG-tsoyg-Vur-kuh, FYI, non-German-speakers. Yay, one year of High School German!)
I even checked with the company itself to make sure but I see my english comes through badly :)
Whoever animated the jet left the engine covers on.
Ha, was just about to write the same thing. Just think how fast it would be without those.
Those are revolutionary ultra-low bypass engines.
@@dmrr7739 You couldnt even run a turbojet on a mass air flow that small. At least not any turbojet of a sufficient size to power that plane. And a turbojet is a zero bypass engine. Cant get any smaller than that.
When I look at the other GDR products, I assume that they would have perfected the thing and been ahead of the competition for a decade. After that, they would have continued development but would never upedate the production, so the thing would still have been flying in 1989 as a hugely outdated machine.
It would be pronounced "Baaa-de"
Baa-duh
Yes! And while we're at it, that movie about the German submarine in WWII is pronounced 'Das Boht', NOT 'Das Boot'!
‘Barda’ with an Australian accent (non-rhotarised)
@@6B8RX As well as PorschE, not Porsh. 😁
No Airbus back then. Boeing, Douglas, Convair,
The 1953 popular uprising didn't happen in the USSR, it happend in East Germany. The involvement of the soviets was 'limited' to killing a lot of people and ultimately quashing the protests.
@@Leonid_Brezhnev1found the vatnik
@@Leonid_Brezhnev1 Lol go back to pointlessly dying in the fields of Ukraine with your fellow fascists thanks to broken equipment from endemic corruption. Kthxbai.
Dresden was a KGB (USSR Secret service) base that once employed an officer by the name of Vladimir Putin. When the Wall came down and East Germans were celebrating on the streets in their cities, this guy stepped outside his office, shot into the air with his service pistol and told those assembled to their surprise in harsh German words to go home and stop this nonsense.
Say no more ...
The USSR was always afraid of free market competition and the 152 was competition. Perhaps the USSR should have left it alone as the firm's emphasis was mostly on civil aviation with western technology that could of assisted them with aircraft development. ( both military & civilian) It would have allowed the USSR to focus on military aircraft development too.
The Baade 152 overhead wing configuration makes this aircraft most interesting as future design points in this direction for long heavy haulers. Likely the concept of dynamic fuel flow was not fully understood causing the fuel starvation issue. Likely if it entered the market with the critical issue solved it would not of served long but the next development would have been a market changer.
A competitor to Boeing and Airbus? That's ridiculous. If having a protected domestic market were an advantage, then Ilyushin, Tupolev, Yakolev, and others would now dominate the world. They don't. Protected markets do not produce competitive products.
Also, the terms "Eastern Bloc" and "Soviet Union" can't be used interchangeably. While East Germany was indeed a Soviet client state and the Soviets wielded a great deal of control there, it was never actually part of the Soviet Union itself.
True!
Research a bit further, please. Until Gorbachev did come unto the scene, any Eastern Government was nothing more than an administrative arm of the USSR.
@@FoundAndExplained He's wrong. You dont see competition to boeing and airbus not because of a protected market "stIfLiNg InnOvaTioN" but because liberal reformers like Gaidar and Chubais destroyed the aviation industry among many others. "Why make our own when we can buy from the west" was the dominant attitude of post-soviet politicians.
@thies7831 what research? They were separate countries and had more independent foreign policies than modern european states.
The name of the plane is actually only 152, without the Baade. Brunolf Baade was the head of construction, but his name was not included. And it's only in recent years that the "Baade-152" pops up here and there, probably to be more in line with naming conventions that include either the company name or the name of the chief engineer.
You are making real progress! Hope in the future you’ll reach more people with this good content
My grandma worked on that airplane! He was amazed to see that there's articles and even VIDEOS online on the project he worked on as a young engineer. The official reason for why the plane was scaped, that the design didn't work out, was also what he told us.
He passed away half a year ago, while he was still writing a book about his life. I wonder if there's more insight on this project in what he wrote this far
2:57 No front but i never heard someone pronouncing a German word that bad XD
But it is a difficult word I guess
Wutznwerge 😄
Flook - tsoik - wer (e like e in net) - kuh
It is not hard. Even Google translate does a good job
@@jonannesfleischer9994 Hey, you just find out how it IS said. It's easy. Its called the Internet. This guy's a Shwanz. Im English and I can spell and say it properly in both languages.
I think passenger seating in the nose could catch on, maybe have a firsts class lounge kind of atmosphere in there.
That's where the onboard radar sits in modern Aircraft.
It will be very popular by social video suppliers filming their live reports when the aircraft is "backing full on into a mountain" ...
4:41 The Mercator projection has its uses, but range maps of this type are not one of them.
Correct. It would look more pear shaped: Elongated at the top, compressed at the bottom and standard to the sides.
had a look around the Baade 152 fuselage that was in use as a classroom on Rothenberg AIr field back in 1991. Beleive it is being restored in Dresden.
This is Aussie version of mustard 😂
Would love to see a video on the Vickers VC-10 and Ilyushin Il-62. Controversy of espionage , safety records , etc.
Love the content of your videos. Thank you for all the work put into them .
Fascinating. I never knew this aircraft existed. I'm sure with a little engineering this could have been a revolutionary short-haul jet.
The East German state airline was actually called "Deutsche Lufthansa" while the west German was/is "Lufthansa", before the East German was replaced by Interflug.
Thanks for this video. I'm German but I never knew anything about it. Find this very interesting!.👍 Greetings from 🇫🇯
😲
@@donaldstanfield8862 hi, in words please! Unfortunately I don't know what that funny face means. Thanks.
All good. It just shows your age. Any baby boomer in West Germany growing up with an interest in aviation was raving on about "that pile of DDR junk" (Haufen DDR Schrott). As nothing remarkable did come after it, it was clear that any aviation progress would not develop from there despite having snatched a lot of remarkable engineers from pre-war Germany.
It was a problem of the planned economy. Instead of constantly pushing forward, supplies often dictated the pace. When the Wall came down the question was solved how East Germany was "World Production Leader of Industrial Robots". Their serial numbers rapidly went into the 10000 range. Once built and released to manufacturing companies on average they lasted about 2 months. After a complete overhaul, they were fitted with a new serial number and returned as a "NEW" item ...
In 1981 one of our professors in Industrial Design speculated, that Germany reunited could have the potential of a computer super-power. The East Germans had plenty of dreams and time to ponder over software problems, while the West German companies had the know-how of reliable mass production of any hardware. Somehow, since 1990 something has not matched ...
In the end, the plane's technology was already obsolete. The development of the Tupolev Tu-134 by the middle 1960's made the Baade 152 unnecessary.
My dad is 84 year old former Army/commercial pilot(fixed & Rotary) and loves your videos. Just lettin ya know. 👍
That is awesome! I love the old captains of the sky :) Let me know what he wants to see next and i'll see if I can fit it in :)
It's quite common for the Soviet Union to convert military aircraft into a passenger version, these projects have obviously had varied levels of success....
It must have had “ Nose Gunner class”. No wonder it failed.
Only the 1st prototype did have a glassed nose.
I believe I read that this “ Nose Gunner class” configuration was requested to facilitate ground manoeuvres.
Some consider the fuel tank reasoning to be an excuse, since there had been other incidents and accidents where test-pilots tried to impress their bosses on the ground by flying dangerously.
There are 2 engines per casing. Making a total of 4 engines. This is less fuel efficient than having only 2 slightly bigger more powerful engines. Because more engines = higher fuel consumption (obviously). But also more frequent maintenance. And higher overall maintenance costs. Just to name a few things.
There is a plethora of other disadvantages as well.
Come again, please, when you understand the planned economy of East Germany. On delivery the aircraft would have been handed over with 2 working engines and 2 rotating fans in the other sections of the pods. In that scheme it would have been reported that the number of aircraft even overfulfilled the plan. Nothing would have been mentioned about every second aircraft quietly being shunted into a hangar "for training purposes". There the working engines would have been transferred to the "other every second aircraft" for getting them operational. Suddenly one would have noticed that the engine company overfulfilled their production plan just to supply the missing engines. And maybe find enough material for some spare engines. By the time the plans for the production of the 152 were fulfilled, the aircraft would have reached its working life span.
Baade by name, baade by nature...
Some ideas for future episodes: The West-Germans also designed two unusual jets, the VFW-Fokker 614 with engines above the wings, and the HFB 320 Hansa Jet with forward swept wings, both not commercially successful.
Yes, that one looked really odd, and all the passengers could see was the engines above the wings
@@donaldstanfield8862 It was meant to be the illusive replacement of the DC-3 bringing the jet age to the bush environment, being able to operate from gravel runways without ingesting any risky material into the engines. Unfortunately, lack of government support had VFW (Vereinigte Flugtechnische Werke) being sold off to Fokker, which gave their F28 (later F70 and F100) the priority of their attention. Had Airbus had more strength in those days (they were just running in at that time with their A300s and A310s), the 614 could have been a more successful product in the recently launched A200 range.
This is a superb video, as informative as mustard and wendover productions, you have earned a subscriber my dude
The same thing Russia did to Ukrainian An-148 program. Just ditched previously signed agreements and refused to build the aircraft in favor of Superjet.
Many countries lobby their own manufacturers, that is protectionism
@@Admin-gm3lc that is Russian understanding of protectionism - very near-sighted. An-148 might have been a better choice for Russian airlines, especially the ones operating in northern regions. However, Russia decided to favor Superjet, force it on domestic airlines and now - voila - only 2 are built in 2021. And I don't think any are sold. And airlines do not know what to do with ones they have because they are breaking way too often.
@@volodymyrdrobot9454 You collected only three AN-148s for yourself. Russia assembled and delivered 41 aircraft in Voronezh. At the moment, 27 units remain in operation in Russia.
@@vladimirnikolskiy and what? How does that contradict to what I wrote above?
@@volodymyrdrobot9454 The last AN-148 was released in Orel, in 2017, or in 2018, I don’t remember. Earlier, Ukraine announced an embargo on the sale of engines and technologies to the Russian Federation.
Do you seriously think that Russia did not predict the situation in Ukraine and did not draw adequate conclusions?
Your conclusion about the fact that in the Russian Federation they have relied on the SSJ100 is generally ridiculous, these are aircraft for different purposes.
Another very interesting video mate, thank you for posting.
Thx great Video! You did better than most others that made a video about the Baade 152 - and you named different reasons to why it whouldn't succeed . 10:00 Also one could add, that the only Hull left of the baade 152 is on display at the dresden Airport Museeum next to the Company :D Also to the crash of the Prototype - as far as I know, investigators didn't believed that the engines stalled, but, that the testpilot went to low at a low power setting , and then engines took to long to spool up after he noticed his mistake but anyway we will never know ^^
I like that flat B52 takeoff profile. Would have been nice for passenger comfort without the steep climb.
mangled pronunciations and bizarre engines in the model aside, this was pretty interesting.
well... lots of space to install bigger modern engines here...
Hi from Germany 2:39pm cool to see german planes here
I will be focusing more on european planes in the coming months :)
I’m from Germany too
@@FoundAndExplained Like A300s, A310s, A320s, A330s, A340s, A350s, A380s rise and fall series?
😊
1:43 Galway is not Ireland's Capital Dublin is
Galway is on the west coast, cork on the south, Belfast in the north and DUBLIN in the east. Ps I am Irish btw
So glad I've found this what if channel.
I feel like those jet engines can sharpen my pencil by the looks of it
It has two pig-nose engine nacelles on each wing :v
The modeler just left the engine covers in. Most pictures of the plane on the ground show it with those engine covers.
Brilliant idea. Let's produce heaps of these models with pencil sharpening jets as desk gimmicks.
excellent video and kudos to those engineers who decided to come with that innovative idea and do something instead of losing hope doing nothing.
Could you make a video of the 747SP ?
The Boeing 747SP is my favourite jumbo jet. My ultimate fantasy would be to buy a scrapped one, set it on a nice piece of land surrounded by trees, and turn it into a completely luxurious living apartment on the inside - with a rear ramp for a drive in garage for at least 2 cars! 😀
@@datathunderstorm rear ramp? I saw one on 727 but not 747 !
Another pipedream from the workers paradise - Hail Nick!
Baade 152. Finally someone made a video about her. Thanks mate.
P.S- Your modeling is really good. You and Mustard should collab someday :)
Thanks for the idea!
@@FoundAndExplained Anytime brother. Looking forward to more such content.
So I noticed you dont have fighter jets but im still gonna mention it.
The Convair Model 200: a US navy jump jet from the 60's. It was a concept but never built.
Actually it was developed in the early 70's. However Convair after loosing it's butt on the 880/990 program moved to being a sub contractor for airline parts. After the mid 60's it didn't produce anymore planes. Interestingly Convair built the center section fuselage for the MD-11 until MD was bought by Boeing.
My next big neverbuilt project is a military one :) time to branch out from just commercial planes :)
Very nice! Hello from randwick the spot
Love Randwick
You my friend have earned a subscriber
Thank you sir! I appreciate the support and say welcome! I hope you like the other videos and if you have any ideas, do let me know!
Why do you only have 27k subscribers?! This is so good!
Working on it!
It never had a chance. It was inferior to and came out after the French Caravelle, American Boeing 707-120 (not to mention the trouble plagued de Havilland Comet) and about the same time as the far more capable B-720. It may have had some success in the east if the Russians had not killed it but it is doubtful it would have seen much success in the west. Maybe with some other regions such as Africa or South America but the French, British and Americans had far superior products to offer plus better worldwide logistical networks and support systems.
Salut le patriote français ,😁 pas la peine de faire bonne image pour t'a France ici avec un commentaire anglais !
Don't focus too much on the release year of 1958. The development phase did cover a lot of years well before that date and even had German engineering ideas from before 1945.
another quality content like from mustard. nice vid m8
Glad you enjoyed. I'm Mustards poor Australian cousin !
@@FoundAndExplained you are on the right path. I look forward to see more content from you :)
Why the engines hang so low?
For using them as skis in Siberia and floatation pods on water landings. It does work perfectly, although, once only ...
When you set the engines far below the center of mass, as here, you get a significant upward pitching moment when you power up. That's a terrible "feature" if you need to increase airspeed to avoid a stall, since pitching the nose up will increase angle of attack and tend to accelerate the stall. This can be mitigated, of course, by using the elevator to pitch down as you add power, but it can still be a serious problem, not least because at certain angles of attack, you can lose control authority on the elevator. (The elevator can enter the turbulent air coming off the wings, which reduces the effect of control surface movements.
You really want to keep your thrust vector as near the CoM as possible.
wait... most of the modern passenger aircraft have engines far below center of mass. engine is the lowest part of aircraft in most cases if it doesnt have rear mounted engine.
This clip lacks some points. Besides constructing the Baade 152, VEB Flugzeugwerke Dresden built some 80 Iljushin IL-14 under licence, the OKB150 Bomber was based on the blue prints of an original WWII german disign for a bomber by Heinkel which never made it into production. The Baade which crashed was supposed to do a fly past at the Leipziger industrial fair. One of the attendees was Khruschev. After the Baade project was cancelled, VEB continued the overhaul of airplanes (mostly Mig´s) right to the end of the DDR. After the reunification the west german aerospace company DASA got hold of it and produced parts for the Fokker F100 until the demise of Fokker in 1996.
Why the tiny engine intake in the illustration? Why hang the engine so low?
Excellent video as always. My only other comment is "damn that thing is ugly" May or may not be a good design- I'm not an engineer so I don't know
Well the design crashed, so its hard to say if it was good. And it was based on a military bomber, so you might notice that the engines are not powerful enough (hence four, not two), and that the center of gravity is too high. I love the bubble cockpit though!
@@FoundAndExplained Only the 1st prototype had a glass nose cockpit, tandem main gear and also older Soviet engines. That all changed from the 2nd prototype onwards. However after just a few flights of the later prototype the program was cancelled for several reasons. I think you missed to mention that in your video.
@@FoundAndExplained twin engines on passenger jets are a much (decades) later development, once reliability could be guaranteed
Well, it looks like someone took a carving knife to a B-52, aka BUFF.
@@anthonykaiser974 BUFF is a very specific B52, the oldest B52 in service is nicknamed BUFF.
The Baade 152 was never a Soviet aircraft although the largest market was seen in the USSR.
It was wholly developed and made in the GDR despite taking some concept ideas from a Soviet bomber.
... and the Pirna 014 engine has no relation to Berlin.
It was developed in the city of Pirna (just south of Dresden) as a direct successor of the Junkers Jumo 012 turbojet by former Junkers engineers.
Brought it "to the Soviet Union"? That sounds a bit strange. Germany (DDR) was not part of the Soviet Union. It was allied with the USSR, of course, part of the Warsaw pact, etc. That's quite different from being an actual part of the USSR on the same level as Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, and other former Soviet states.
I came looking for this comment. There was a bit of conflation. Not deliberate of course (Unless a ruse to drum up interaction! 😀)
Honestly, this would have become one of the most dominant regional airlines if the project had continued, rivalling only Fokker
The maingear being the second most expensive equipment on the inventory is a persuasive reason why we do not see many high wing aircraft. Although there are aerodynamic benefits from high wing designs, which could lead to higher efficiencies and cheaper operation. These decisions led them to the bicycle maingear layout which, while uncommon on commercial aircraft is seen on military applications of the era quite a lot. I think the bicycle mains would be very durable and track straighter on icy runways.
All that said Im a little baffled why the engine pylons bring the engines so low, and where a lot less structure here makes the aircraft seem to 'look right', would be lighter and less costly.
looks like an outstanding plane
What's the relation with the Tu-114, at 3:03?
I can see a lot of B52 in this. Outrigger landing gear, high wing, tail, twin pod engines of course… did some “technology exchange research” take place one way or the other ?
The great windows would have been great for kids/people visiting the cockpit.
The engine intakes look off, seems like you modelled the look of the removable cover for use while being parked outside onto the intakes, instead of modeling the actual engine intake.
No that's what the B152 / II V1's pods looked like, the V4 version were more normal looking. I think with the engines so close to the ground, those funning front ends were to avoid foreign material ingestion
great channel, i love it !
Glad you enjoy it!
Why are the engines that low to the ground?
Why are the engines so close to the ground?
Good video, screw all the commercials.
you could do a video in the Fairchild-Dornier do 728
It's a shame we never found out how this aircraft would perform.
I do however have my doubts initialy for the following reasons
1) The landing gear under the belly configuration results in a pretty low crosswind limit.
2) The huge engine pod mountings act as a huge rudder, nice to assist when an engine fails at low speed (TakeOff)
But it will make the aircraft difficult to controll along the top axis (direction control)
3) Engine configuration to expensive, and untested engines expecting to be unreliable.
Still i think the Sovjets made a mistake by not supporting the idea, as USSR developed aircraft where not realy suitable for the western marked (while the wessies not realy could cope with Rusian airport conditions at the time)
The Baade 152 how odd the design may be, on the long term probarly would have been interesting for some niche market.\
.
Talking about a niche: How about the plan once a came up at the Dutch Fokker Aircraft company to build a Fokker F27 Seaplane. Also the same company was elaborating on a 737/320 alike competitor
2:55 😂😂 You pronounce "Flugzeugwerke" like Vugze Verger. I'm from Germany and I can tell you, our pronunciation and yours doesn't sound just a bit similar. But German is a very hard language for most not German speaking people to pronounce right I guess. But it's still very funny for me.
I tried SO hard haha!
He is using an English aproach in reading German words. No wonder he failed missarably.
FlookZoigVerk, how does that sound?
@@Hattonbank It's close for sure.
Great video
Thanks for the visit
The algorithm decided it was time 😁
What a misleading headline. The 152 made its first flight nine years earlier than Boeing’s 737.
It would have been competing with the 707, not the 737.
It's real intended competitor was the French Sud Aviation Caravelle, but if he had put that in the headline most people would have gone ????? and not clicked.
@@CaptHollister The 152 was not aimed to compete with Western aircrafts. It was rather targeted to compete with Tupolev TU-124 and Ilyushin IL-18. (A headline that leads the clicks to zero.)
Hello from Indonesia, currently 8:13 pm
Following the guy who is from Sydney.
Hello my Indonesia friend
Hello 😭
Wow, it's currently 5:44pm in Melbourne, Australia. What is going on with the time ?
Very nice video :)
Thank you very much!
02:57 "VEB Flugzeugwerke." ...I would pronounce it, "V-E-B FLOOGzoig-Vairkuh", which means, "V.E.B. Aircraft Works".
(I'm not a fluent German speaker; I only took a couple of years of high school German.)
I think that the fuel management problem would not be that hard to fix. Russia did not want its colonies to compete in the aviation market is the sole reason for the plane's demise.
sounds so "warm" on end of sentences....
2:58 - wuzzebörger?
When you talk about the East Germans being licensed to produce Soviet-era piston planes, you are showing video of the TU-114, which was the airliner version of the TU-95 Bear bomber. The TU-114 was probably the fastest propeller airliner of all time, but it was a turboprop and didn't use piston engines.
Ah forgive me you are correct. My mistake. It was footage from the airport where the Baade was being built (dresden) so i assumed that it was aircraft manufactured there, while more likely it was an aircraft from Moscow flying in VIPs
You deserve so much more subs
USSR had many of its designers and engineers in the field of aviation. USSR had its own design schools. No German engineers did work at Soviet factories. They all fled to the West. It was the West who has always exploited other people's human resources and not the USSR
Sounds to me like it was the USSR exploiting it’s populace that led them to flee to the free west in the first place... that’s not exploitation, it’s salvation from exploitation.
@@joshuastory7365 West is not free its rich West is rich because it exploits "other people's human resources" There is no connection between escape of a part of the German population and the economy of the USSR This is the result of the crimes of Western politicians especially of american esteblishment who brought Hitler to power Who gave him money
@@viptal6313 I didn't say there was a connection between the economy of the USSR and the desperation of most of it's citizenry to escape it. The reason so many people wanted to flee the USSR was it's totalitarian regime which limited basic freedoms and ruled by fear- one side effect of this did happen to be poor economic conditions. You seem to be more concerned with ranting about the perceived evils of the west than with an evaluation of the motives of German captives. While it is true that for a large chunk of history starting in the early renaissance Western nations rose to the top of exploitative nations, that's not exactly what was at play in this particular scenario. The west's free-thinking philosophies, one of the few developments actually brought about by native westerners and not stolen from others, created the environment for success and wealth of the degree we see in western nations today. That freedom creates the opportunity for success and wealth which improves the quality of life of people able to grasp it. While there could be a legitimate debate about the accessibility of that opportunity for different people groups due to discrimination, intelligent german engineers certainly would have certainly fallen into that category at that time. There is in fact a quite large connection between western freedom and the desire to leave the USSR.
That hitler thing came out of nowhere and I'm not sure how it ties into this. If you're referring to the attempts to try and foster peace between the Nazis and the world prior to the first world war, those are pretty generally regarded as diplomatic disasters and terrible decisions, but I fail to see the connection here.
Nice Video
Did these come with a pressurized cabin? Many bombers from that era didn´t, meaning the passengers would either need an oxygen mask, or the plane flying low to provide breathable air thus using way more fuel.
Converting to pressurized may have been too complicated, since it involves the entire airframe. It may have contributed to its demise..
i really like your animations. how you do this ?
If you ever want to see that unique airplane in action and other models from that East German company - it exist as a mod on transportfever.net - made for Transport Fever 2. It’s truly one of a kind!
Years ago, somebody modelled it for FS2004. I offloaded it after a few trials. It constantly crashed on landing. The moment the wheels touched the runway, the 152 just blew up.
Cool looking plane
If anything, I love the idea of that glass-nosed beauty, but ditching the Navigation use, for a Observation Lounge.
There were plans to make a passenger version of Handley Page's Victor bomber, though this never came about. Interestingly the aircraft makes an appearance in the 1963 British comedy film The Iron Maiden where the promise of the films was an attempt to sell the passenger version to a US airline president. Talk about product placement.
Have you seen the B-58 version as a supersonic business jet for the US Military Chiefs ?
*baad* 152
name makes sense lol
It's a shame these planes never lived up to their potential.
They did live to their potential, and that's why these jet projects failed, Soviets were lagging behind in aerospace and because relationships greatly worsen when the Soviets dare to defend America's backyard (Cuba) from becoming a puppet state while already took part in the Korean conflict, East Germany would be likely unable to buy necessary tech from the West to keep up with competition outside Soviet Union where demand for jet travel was limited due to poor economy model, so no, definitely not a threat to Boeing or companies that become Airbus...
Soviets would likely kill by the political pressure any too successful aerospace project made by their satellites that would make Russians look too incompetent anyway especially if it could threaten the production of Russian-made alternatives they would like to force on states under their rule. Hell, Russians sabotaging gas exploration projects of nations around them up to the present day, including the attempt of Ukraine to collaborate with Westen companies on exploiting their gas reserves a few years ago...
#VIDEO-IDEA'S
Whatever happened to the Ekranoplans? Where they're at least passenger variants/ prototypes?
There were prototypes but they were planned to be used for long distance transport of e.g. troops
as a german, who was born in the former east, i can be proud of such an idea
2:24 at the time, the bomber - a copy of the Douglas B-66, was attributed to Ilyushin & designated ''Blowlamp'' in NATOse.
The sovs never developed it & kept to their Ilyushin Il-28 bombers.
Mustard like video.. nice one!
"originally licensed to build Soviet era piston planes" he says, showing video of a Soviet turboprop airliner.
These videos are so insightful. I admire the effort you put in to all of them. But Baade should be pronounced “Barda” rather than “Bayd”.
Nearly there. Try a bleating sheep: BAAA-day.