0.3dB difference driving an 8 ohm load. That would be 0.6dB driving a 4 ohm load, 1.2dB driving a 2 ohm load and 2.4dB driving a 1 ohm load. If you tried to "EQ out" the 2.4dB drop you would basically turn a 1000 watt amplifier into a 600 watt amplifier. So it is very relevant. For those that don't think you can hear 0.5dB, create 2 EQ settings on your DSP, one of them with a 0.5dB drop on a range of frequencies, not a single band, a range. Then switch back and forth, it should be very easy to hear the difference.
❌🔥I’ve been building small amps for years and to your point on _constant_power amps // could you help explain how ,and why the damping would be ((atrocious)) if that circuit is supposed to correct for impedance change on output load cause this my friend really sound interesting 🧐 and you’re a true Artist 🖼 I could only wish to make an amp like yours so hats 🎩 off to all you guys that Do‼️_ (also off hand what’s your _slew rate_ on your inputs on your Big 4 channel if I may ask please - it’s gotta be insane 🔥❌
@@eurekaakerue4649 Because it cannot do it fast enough, check out distortion plots for constant power amps it looks like a zig zag..... JL's flagship HD amplifiers do this, Rockford AD's do this....
@@CL-yp1bs and that’s why you get what you pay for. Floor noise and dampening factor. If you want to know why JL audio are like you mentioned Rockford Fosgate cost so much compared to CT sounds well that’s why.
@@JesseJames83 it's not plus or minus. 3 DB. Either way though there's no way you could hear the difference in that level. Now the dampening factor is much more appreciable.
So at what point do we start to care? Some people can hear the difference, especially musicians. I don't like posts like yours that try to commoditize audio. If nothing makes a difference why change anything? One of the world's largest and most respected capacitor manufacturers, Nichicon, has many different series of capacitors for audio circuit use that each have their own "sound" that would measure no difference in a frequency response test. Everything matters. The point of this video is that two amplifiers that measured nearly identically on the test bench measure completely different when connected to speakers. The speakers used here are 4-8 ohm speakers as well, the situation at 1 ohm would be 4x worse. @news
He's not measuring SPL. It's dBV most likely. 0.3dBV is about 1v. That's fairly significant. Tony - How about mic the speaker and sweep with your amp vs. the caviar (carver) and compare them. This may reveal real-world effects of poor output impedance.
Can you please explain how 0.3db would make a perceptible difference to the human ear? Does 0.3db on the graph translate to a greater difference in SPL?
Question.....This is a great video on the damping factor subject, but the fact that quite a few higher power D'Amore amps ("E" series) have 12 gauge wire connectors has me puzzled. 12 Ga wire has just about 1.6 mOhm/ft. I would think if the speakers were say even 4 feet from the amp, that's [4x2=8...x's 1.6mOhm = 12.8 mOhms]. Surely this resistance degrades the damping factor? And not to mention that with 1 Ohm loads, at say 1000 W, the speaker current is almost 32 Amps. I would think there would be loss in the spkr wires. I would be very interested to hear your take on all this........
I have question... Obviously having higher Damping Factor ( like in most high end amplifiers) is better to control the speakers but ... In what type of speakers DF would play bigger role ? Would be noticeable - audible? For example... Having Damping factor of 3000 on lower frequencies (subs) vs midrange vs high freq ? Does it really matter ? Is it really worth it to have such a high DF on higher frequencies?
Now raise the DF of your A1500 and compare to high to low DF. For the sake of DF and comparative data it would be a better setup compared to a whole different amp.
Tony, great but ! You failed to mention that under, for instance 2R load, the DF will also be different than the one You just measured. All channels driven will also have an affect on the DF as well as size and length of cables. Most importantly, huts off if You can hear the difference of 0.3dB !? Non-linearity of any speaker is way worse than the one of amplifier, not to mention the distortion that comes from the transducers themselves. It's good on You that Your amp can achieve high DF, but does it really make any difference, especially in a car environment, while driving ? Does it fck! Good video anyway.
Awesome video. Thank you for sharing. 😎 If you could ever make time to explain headroom it'd be greatly appreciated. I understand what it is but it's very difficult for me to explain to others who misuse the term.
Buy the correct impedance amps and speakers... no need for constant power amplifiers.... the graphs on them look like a zig zag from the regulation....
0.3dB difference driving an 8 ohm load. That would be 0.6dB driving a 4 ohm load, 1.2dB driving a 2 ohm load and 2.4dB driving a 1 ohm load. If you tried to "EQ out" the 2.4dB drop you would basically turn a 1000 watt amplifier into a 600 watt amplifier. So it is very relevant. For those that don't think you can hear 0.5dB, create 2 EQ settings on your DSP, one of them with a 0.5dB drop on a range of frequencies, not a single band, a range. Then switch back and forth, it should be very easy to hear the difference.
Thanks for clarifying, Tony!
This is awesome stuff to know. I really appreciate you taking the time to show us!
❌🔥I’ve been building small amps for years and to your point on _constant_power amps // could you help explain how ,and why the damping would be ((atrocious)) if that circuit is supposed to correct for impedance change on output load cause this my friend really sound interesting 🧐 and you’re a true Artist 🖼 I could only wish to make an amp like yours so hats 🎩 off to all you guys that Do‼️_ (also off hand what’s your _slew rate_ on your inputs on your Big 4 channel if I may ask please - it’s gotta be insane 🔥❌
@@eurekaakerue4649 Because it cannot do it fast enough, check out distortion plots for constant power amps it looks like a zig zag..... JL's flagship HD amplifiers do this, Rockford AD's do this....
@@CL-yp1bs and that’s why you get what you pay for. Floor noise and dampening factor. If you want to know why JL audio are like you mentioned Rockford Fosgate cost so much compared to CT sounds well that’s why.
+/- .1 db... definitely worth the $8,000 difference. Glad I caught this one. Thanks. Note: Edited for Value Difference.
0.3* db
@@JesseJames83 it's not plus or minus. 3 DB. Either way though there's no way you could hear the difference in that level. Now the dampening factor is much more appreciable.
@@bonzainews the curve continues to drop on the right
@@JesseJames83 and it still does not make the slightest difference. Please read my comment above.
So at what point do we start to care? Some people can hear the difference, especially musicians. I don't like posts like yours that try to commoditize audio. If nothing makes a difference why change anything? One of the world's largest and most respected capacitor manufacturers, Nichicon, has many different series of capacitors for audio circuit use that each have their own "sound" that would measure no difference in a frequency response test. Everything matters. The point of this video is that two amplifiers that measured nearly identically on the test bench measure completely different when connected to speakers. The speakers used here are 4-8 ohm speakers as well, the situation at 1 ohm would be 4x worse.
@news
great stuff keep it coming. i know there isnt a ton of people interested in this stuff. it means so much to us few that are into it.
Thanks for taking the time to make these super informative and interesting videos! I've never seems damping factor demonstrated so clearly before
Stoked to see you doing these again mate... stay at it.
Differences look big on that graph for the carver + klipsch, but it's still less than a .5 dB! No human could hear that difference.
He's not measuring SPL. It's dBV most likely. 0.3dBV is about 1v. That's fairly significant.
Tony - How about mic the speaker and sweep with your amp vs. the caviar (carver) and compare them. This may reveal real-world effects of poor output impedance.
one of these amp is probably 30 years old and the other is way more recent!.. maybe the diff is there too...
Can you please explain how 0.3db would make a perceptible difference to the human ear? Does 0.3db on the graph translate to a greater difference in SPL?
If 3db is double the voltage, then 0.3db would be 10% more voltage? It's very audible
Question.....This is a great video on the damping factor subject, but the fact that quite a few higher power D'Amore amps ("E" series) have 12 gauge wire connectors has me puzzled. 12 Ga wire has just about 1.6 mOhm/ft. I would think if the speakers were say even 4 feet from the amp, that's [4x2=8...x's 1.6mOhm = 12.8 mOhms]. Surely this resistance degrades the damping factor? And not to mention that with 1 Ohm loads, at say 1000 W, the speaker current is almost 32 Amps. I would think there would be loss in the spkr wires. I would be very interested to hear your take on all this........
Thanks for sharing the information👍
I have question... Obviously having higher Damping Factor ( like in most high end amplifiers) is better to control the speakers but ... In what type of speakers DF would play bigger role ? Would be noticeable - audible? For example... Having Damping factor of 3000 on lower frequencies (subs) vs midrange vs high freq ? Does it really matter ? Is it really worth it to have such a high DF on higher frequencies?
Thanks for this 👍
I would love to buy one of your amps for home audio use. Do you only specialize in car audio amps?
Now raise the DF of your A1500 and compare to high to low DF. For the sake of DF and comparative data it would be a better setup compared to a whole different amp.
So higher impedance higher damping.
How to buy Dyno AD 1 ?
Does the power potential have any significant effect on the DF?
Thank God. Thanks for another video bro.
Tony, great but ! You failed to mention that under, for instance 2R load, the DF will also be different than the one You just measured. All channels driven will also have an affect on the DF as well as size and length of cables. Most importantly, huts off if You can hear the difference of 0.3dB !? Non-linearity of any speaker is way worse than the one of amplifier, not to mention the distortion that comes from the transducers themselves. It's good on You that Your amp can achieve high DF, but does it really make any difference, especially in a car environment, while driving ? Does it fck! Good video anyway.
Both amps class A/B?
Awesome video. Thank you for sharing. 😎
If you could ever make time to explain headroom it'd be greatly appreciated. I understand what it is but it's very difficult for me to explain to others who misuse the term.
First name Max.
Awesome video
A wireless mic on your person, please? My cheap home audio had to be turned up so high to hear you.
Buy the correct impedance amps and speakers... no need for constant power amplifiers.... the graphs on them look like a zig zag from the regulation....
Hmm .
1st , lol great vid