Close Chinese cars are falling apart 0 they trick you into buying them because initially you think they're amazing and the actual problem with electric cars is there isn't enough minerals on Earth there's never going to be an infrastructure powerful enough and big enough to charge them the world needs to go to hydrogen powered cars
Problem with the Chinese electric cars that I'm seeing on the internet when you search for it is they don't have any parts available and they are actually junk and he keeps saying they're good but he has no idea 💡 then you have to talk about the slave labor made to mine the minerals which there isn't enough
Doug is wrong at 7:15 China absolutely subsidieses their electric cars; $3k per vehicle, plus sales tax exempt, plus huge amount if government purchasing to guarantee sales, etc, hundreds of billions dumped into the industry over the past 15 year.
1st, there are no public numbers; 2nd $3k would be a drop in the bucket considering Rivian and Lucid are still losing tens of thousands per car sold. Can't even imagine where you got 15 years from, considering that's pre Tesla production, which is the first company to mass produce consumer EVs.
Is there a country where EVs are popular but aren't so heavily subsidized as to make them significantly less expensive to own than an ICE counterpart, like in Norway or China?
2 things needed to spur greater EV adoption in the US. 1. make them cheaper, have good budget options around 25k 2. invest HEAVILY into charging infrastructure
Honestly, I think the government could get by with just number 2 and investing in charging. There are enough good used EVs that are affordable (finally) that people could afford it. I just got a used 2022 ioniq 5 with 4k miles on it for $20k. It's the lowest mileage car I've ever owned and cost less than our used Outback. It has 300+ mile range and charges quickly. The only thing holding that back from literally anything is charging infrastructure.
Greater EV adoption will happen only when the masses want to buy what EVs offer. Currently there are very few reasons to buy an EV and most are questionable. Better for the planet? Questionable when most electricity today comes from burning fossil fuels. Cheaper to run? Questionable because the difference between fuel and KWH prices are offset by the higher sticker price. The only positive I see is the less costs for maintenance To me the biggest problem is not only lack of infrastructure but the fact that full recharge if an EV takes an hour vs 5 minutes for an ICE car. Ask anyone that took a 15 hour trip to the beach last summer with an ICE car to see what they experienced. They constantly drove at 65 mph and spent 3-4 hours charging making the total trip in 20 hours!!!
@@AB-jz9ns you're right. If EVs were cheaper that would offset the price difference between gas and KWH. If charging infrastructure was improved and more high speed chargers were available it would cut down on charging times. There are EVs out now in the US that can charge 80% in 20 minutes and I believe this will get even faster in the next few years. There is also an EV brand in China that uses battery swapping instead of charging which brings the "charging" time down to 3-4 minutes, similar to an ICE vehicle. Of course, that would require heavy investment into infrastructure.
I don't think you need heavy charging infrastructure. Specially in the US. It's a cultural thing, EVs are perfect dailies, then you have a second gas car for big trips. I don't see EV adoption at least in the US to come soon. But dual car maybe
Anyone with a clue about how many US industries, cars and homes need oil, and anyone with a clue about national security wouldn't say such a ridiculous thing.
@@Daniel_CapitalWhat, are they going to go out of business if we pull the subsidies? All that money just goes to stakeholders and execs. Just like the telecom companies that didn’t build anything out, but all that tax money is still gone, and prices are just as high as ever with just as poor service as every. They just used the money for market consolidation buying each other up until there isn’t competition so they can jack up the prices even higher.
Everyone uses oil or oil based products. Not everyone uses EV cars. I don't want to subsidize toys that we don't need. If it's such a great business model car companies will find a way to make them and profit from it. The only reason they got this far is because the government is forcing them on us.
The US oil industry is profitable and isn't subsidized as much as others. According to the IMF, the US gov't's fossile fuel subsidy was only about $3B in 2022. Now, compare that against China's $270+B fossile fuel subsidies to support cheap energy for industry and overcapacity.
@@sunrisejak2709 just Google it yourself. First result: “It's not just the US: according to the International Energy Agency, fossil fuel handouts hit a global high of $1 trillion in 2022 - the same year Big Oil pulled in a record $4 trillion of income. In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry.May 3, 2023 www.budget.senate.gov › press SEN. WHITEHOUSE ON FOSSIL FUEL SUBSIDIES”
Well there’s the free leases on public land for oil exploration. The other billions are well known in the industry and have been noted in the news for years. You just have to look and allow that information to enter your brain. Not to mention the corporations pay almost no taxes with all their deductions. But dig a bit and you’ll find them on your own.
Ridiculous to say that a $7500 incentive explains the six figures the super rich were paying for the Cybertruck and Hummer. None of them were getting the incentive. The Lucid is also not eligible for the incentive. The Mach-e is not eligible and is selling well.
Mach- E is not selling well, those number are inflated by rental sales. The ford Mach-e has a 284 day inventory, which means they have a significant surplus. I currently sell Hondas and Honda is also inflating the sales volume of the Prologue. Both cars are selling but not at a sustainable rate.
@@bigdunks4eva I think you missed the commenter’s point. Proposing that incentives were the reason why very expensive EVs were selling makes no sense, precisely for the reason you state. People who want expensive cars and can afford them buy them whether there is an incentive or not. You and the commenter agree.
You realize thay auto makers are being forced into EVs by the government right? That isn't the free market making that decision. Almost every manufacturer is set to be 100% electric in the next 20 to 30 years. The market didn't dictate thay btw.
I bought a 2016 model X P90D for 26k, down from 116k new. It has about 90% battery health. Previous owner had it wrapped and treated it well. Very happy with it.
I just got a red 2021 Tesla model three still smells brand new with white interior and ppf film. It has 28,000 miles and looks flawless. It has every option including the winter package and was only $28,500. I have been driving a Challenger scatpack for the last eight years and sold that to pay this Tesla off in full. I couldn’t believe how cheap it was. I like it way better than the Dodge.
One major drawback with the new solid-state batteries, is the swelling of the battery during charging and, ultimately the degradation of the cell after extensive recharging, lithium is a very toxic metal for the environment, not many countries want to mine it, 98% of lithium is not recycled and goes in to land dumps, lithium is very dangerous to recycle and not profitable because it is cheaper to mine than recycle, the huge amount of lithium needed to make just one lithium car is not sustainable for all cars, it takes 1000 gallons of clean water turned toxic just to mine or build one lithium car, just one ! this is just lithium and not including cobalt which is another of many other real toxic metals causing air pollution and vast water pollution when mined ( just horrible for oceans) better solution, hydrogen fuel cell, amazing secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere, after all lithium EV batteries cars most are still connected to oil and coal grids.
@@gatoleblanc8432hydrogen fuel cells have their own issues for being commercially viable at the moment too. The biggest being storage in the vehicle. If you want to have good range you need to have a larger tank or store it at higher pressures (the Mirai as 3 tanks at 10,000psi). And hydrogen fuel cells still heavily rely on batteries Now if you want to talk about the fueling scenario with them, it’s worse than the charging infrastructure and is significantly farther behind in time to be ready than the charging infrastructure.
@ a “real” car with engine Failure twice before 40k miles. Drive shaft failure at 60k. PDC failure 61k, rear end issues, hemi tick/mds failure, not to mention dodge dealership illegally putting two fake car wrecks on my carfax and then dodge intentionally unbolting my skid plate which ripped off my bumper and admitting to doing so in a Dodge email for retaliation for reporting Dodge for taking my vehicle to an employees house that was caught on gps. A real car my ass. Fuck dodge. I drove Dodge the last 10 years. I don’t need to prove anything to you 😂 🤡
my condolences for dropping 62k on a tesla. You could only justify that if you make your money through commissioned work rather than busting your ass all day. Madness
Model S Performance with lifetime supercharging IS THE BEST DEAL IN THE AUTOMOTIVE WORLD - absolutely INSANELY GREAT and sub 20k for low mile examples sub 3s to 60, huge hatchback design, camping mode, AWD, and pretty luxe especially with the KILLER factory stereo with sub. I'm a car guy, lots of BMWs and Porsches, and I love mine!
China heavily subsidizes the manufacturing of their EVs and their low-cost labor is why their prices are extremely low. Now Norway is a country that's on there way to full EV adoption. 89% of newly sold vehicles are EVs.
Is there a country where EVs are popular but aren't so heavily subsidized as to make them significantly less expensive to own than an ICE counterpart, like in Norway or China?
@@ldisc66 Most countries don't subsidizes as much as China. China also spends $270+B every year in fossile fuel subsidies to support cheap energy and overcapacity.
_"...the demand is just not as strong..."_ 2:37 because all domestic models keep focusing upward on speed and power and luxury. The closest to a people's car was the Nissan Leaf, which did pretty well. Ford went from nothing to the Model A and Model T. Serve the masses, eat with the classes but serve the classes and you will eat with the masses.
On my 4th EV right now - i4 edrive 40, i would not go back to combustion engines. Quiet, clean, fast, inexpensive to maintain. Yes we need more charging infrastructure and we need faster chargers so you can go to a service station and charge up in a reasonably short period of time. We will get there, it is the future - and with solar it can be renewable.
One major drawback with the new solid-state batteries, is the swelling of the battery during charging and, ultimately the degradation of the cell after extensive recharging, lithium is a very toxic metal for the environment, not many countries want to mine it, 98% of lithium is not recycled and goes in to land dumps, lithium is very dangerous to recycle and not profitable because it is cheaper to mine than recycle, the huge amount of lithium needed to make just one lithium car is not sustainable for all cars, it takes 1000 gallons of clean water turned toxic just to mine or build one lithium car, just one ! this is just lithium and not including cobalt which is another of many other real toxic metals causing air pollution and vast water pollution when mined ( just horrible for oceans) better solution, hydrogen fuel cell, amazing secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere, after all lithium EV batteries cars most are still connected to oil and coal grids.
They really just need a dirt cheap electric car. If they had a brand new car for $15k that was just the very basics but had a decent range it would sell like crazy. Most people just need something to take to the store or work and don't wanna get wet in the rain. All the crazy power and features just make cars too expensive.
Luxury ICE vehicles depreciate a lot also. With ICE vehicles, the poor reliability and expensive repairs becomes a ticking time bomb and hurts the retail value. It’s why people often prefer to lease a Mercedes rather than hold on to it for a long time.
Actually there are incentives in China for EVs. When you buy a car in china you have to get a permit. Depending on where you live it could take an exteremely long time and hassle. The Chinese govt said if you buy a EV, there is no permit requirements. Not saying that was the only or even main driver for high EV sales but it was definately an important factor.
@ I don’t think anyone is forcing you to buy a EV. In china or America. It’s an incentive not a mandate like people think. For example out subsidies and incentives for oil in 2022 was $1.2 trillion. Now does that mean that the government is forcing businesses to drill for oil? Or forcing consumers to buy gasoline cars and using petroleum products? Another example would be a manufacture rebate or a sale. If you buy a 12 pack and it was 10% off or had a manufacturer rebate. Would that mean the store or the manufacturer is forcing a consumer to buy a 12 pack?
You already can if you qualify for ev rebates, IRS has used ev rebates and for both combined $8k off, I got my model 3 dual motor for $17k a year ago, not probably can get one for $15k after incentives.
If the tax credit goes away the used Tesla market will go up not down. The main reason the deprecation is so high right now is two fold. 1. the Tax credits. 2. The price to build and sell has come down due to plant processes and battery cost dropping causing the used prices to take a hit.
@@brianmorgan4792 Said by someone who hasn't owned one. As someone who has owned one 2yr 8 months and 94,500 miles, I can tell you they are still like new.
@ I have an early model 3, it’s better than any German car I’ve had, in terms of reliability. Can’t even compare especially after 100k miles. German cars are money pits.
Just bought a used 2023 Nissan Ariya Platinum+ EForce....top of the line, all optioned....MSRP of $63k+. Like new with 14,000 miles. Purchased for $29,999 from local Nissan dealer. Got a $1,500 WA Used EV Sales Tax Incentive and $4,000 Federal Used EV Tax credit that brings net cost of $24,499 net. Crazy. Great car BTW.
I have 3 different cars and one of them is a Model S Plaid. Got it for 68K Dec 2023. Damn good car. Very reliable, really only have to potentially worry about tires and brakes and that'll take years
One major drawback with the new solid-state batteries, is the swelling of the battery during charging and, ultimately the degradation of the cell after extensive recharging, lithium is a very toxic metal for the environment, not many countries want to mine it, 98% of lithium is not recycled and goes in to land dumps, lithium is very dangerous to recycle and not profitable because it is cheaper to mine than recycle, the huge amount of lithium needed to make just one lithium car is not sustainable for all cars, it takes 1000 gallons of clean water turned toxic just to mine or build one lithium car, just one ! this is just lithium and not including cobalt which is another of many other real toxic metals causing air pollution and vast water pollution when mined ( just horrible for oceans) better solution, hydrogen fuel cell, amazing secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere, after all lithium EV batteries cars most are still connected to oil and coal grids.
just bought a 2023 Nissan leaf for $19,500 afer the $4K used EV credit. fun car, very inexpensive to operate, and I wasn't able to find a comparable gas car for under $23K.
Graham, I just placed an order for a brand new Model 3, my name is Waleed, and I used your referral code. ☺️ will pick up the car next week. Been a fan of the channel for a while and couldn’t think of anyone better to use, so I used yours. 🤝
I wanna buy a Porsche Taycan... They are plummeting.. Can anyone advise? Yay or nay .... Budget is 55k-60k... I've always dreamed of owning a porsche (not a cayman or boxster), but they have always been insanely expensive... And this would be a great opportunity to own a good looking porsche
I’m in the same boat I want the Taycan but I’m worried about what gone happen when the battery 8 year warranty runs out to my knowledge Porsche won’t renew or cover it
I paid 13k (after used EV credit) otd on a Chevy Bolt a few weeks ago with 25k miles. The battery pack was recently replaced due to a recall, so I basically have a brand new car!
Canadian government just ended the ev rebate of $5000. I was on the fence about buying a tesla model 3, and upon the news I went out and leased a phev suv because the suv is now the same price as the Model 3. In my opinion I’m getting more car for what is now the same price. It will be interesting to see what Tesla does with their pricing.
I think that condos and apartments should be encouraged to provide charging. We in Canada have a $5000 incentive which we appreciate. Our dollar is 70 cents on the American. I think $7500 is way too extravagant.
Just bought a 2021 Model S Plaid from Tesla, one owner clean title, blue with cream interior, 21" arachnids and 37k miles for $52k. It's an incredible car for that price.
I just purchased a 2021 Model S Plaid, 28k miles, gray with cream interior, 19 inch wheels for 55,400. If you don’t mind me asking, what were the insurance quotes you received first the vehicle. I was quoted $650 and I’m now uncertain if I should take delivery.
@karread3589 I have Progressive, and the Plaid is $159 per month for full coverage including glass, gap coverage, $60 per day rental car coverage, $1000 deductible, and $100,000/$300,000 coverage. That's with multi car, zero accidents, paperless and auto payment discounts.
Infrastructure or the lact there of is one of the biggest reasons no one wants evs. No one wants to wait in line to charge their car, usually it's packed at the charging stations. No one wants to wait 20 to 30 mins to charge their car.
3:03 the secondary market can absolutely have incentives. WA state will waive sales tax on pre-owned EV sales of $30k or less. The incentives are just done on the state level.
$40k still isn't affordable, Building for the incentives is wrong, build for not having the incentive and let the customer be able to afford the product. I can buy a 90's jeep for
Only Tesla has the EV scale to survive the incentiveless environment. Others have too few volume and too many models. Tesla has big factories focusing on just a few popular models.
Because you do see a lot of battery pack values under $150,000 mi and the performance models have an issue with oil leaking into their engines. The problem becomes of either one of those things need to be replaced. It basically cost just as much to do that as what the vehicle cost. So it's not worth the perceived savings. Too much risk.
As Stock 1897 stated its INFRASTRUCTURE, creating/improving the ease of charging and then dealing with the stresses that will create on the grid(s) locally and nationally
Lease an ID.4 the car sucks but they’re pretty much giving them away and the ownership cost will be significantly cheaper than anything else on the road
I think the problem with EVs in the US is that 95% of production has been devoted to high end premium/luxury market niches that most people can't afford. VWAG and Toyota have never really went in on the EVs. Hyundai/KIA is trying to fill that void but are still treating those vehicles as if they were premium products in terms of pricing. Also the charging infrastucture in large swaths of the country is severely lacking.
So many people complain about range and charging taking a while at these charging stations... but the thing these people don't realize is you can start every day with a full "tank". It's very likely you would only have to use a charging station outside your home a handful of times per year. The rest of the time you charge it at home while you sleep and wake up with a full battery. Unless you're doing a long trip, or have a day where you are gonna drive hundreds of miles, then you should never have to use an external charger. Just plug it in at home and every day you can go right to work or school or wherever and not have to stop at the gas station on the way.
Exactly this. Once in a blue moon I need to supercharge and it thats 15min. The rest of the time is fully charged, ready to go in the morning, and with solar its free!
You are right but you are skipping out on a lot of drivers that live in apartments. I would've considered leasing an EV or bought something used if I had a charger at my apartment building.
@ that’s a great point that slipped my mind. I guess my mind goes to a certain type of person when I think of people that hate on electric cars. Usually dudes, over 30, probably lean conservative, or they are car guys with garage setups lol. Either way, typically older guys that are likely to have a house. But you’re absolutely right. In an apartment situation, the best you could maybe do is trickle charge with a standard outlet and an extension cord if you could park close to the building. Which wouldn’t be enough to fully charge every day in most instances.
You clearly live in a bubble. The mere fact you assume that everyone owns a home and has a garage is proof of that bubble. “It slipped my mind” of course it did because you live in a bubble 😂😂
China doesn't want any Oil dependence. Coal plants powering EV's = Energy Independence. And as a bonus they get to sell the world battery components and solar panels. And destroy the Auto industry worldwide, while becoming the dominant car manufacturing country. They are playing the long game.
If I had the magic wand, I'd focus on recharging. People don't have range anxiety, they have recharging anxiety. We need chargers to be so fast, so common, and so reliable that it's barely worse than pumping gas. Current charging (with the exception of Tesla superchargers) is abysmal.
Biden's Build Back better plan does have subsidies that are meant to help accelerate the development of EV infrastructure; it just took so long to get passed, and so long for grants to be dispersed, bidding, etc. If Trump doesn't gut it, infrastructure should improve.
In Finland the cheapest Tesla Model S Plaid with 35 000km/21 700 ish miles is currently at 90 000€/92700$. Starting price for that car is 134 000€/138 000$. So at that price it is still too expensive but at 55 000€ they would sell like crazy here. 😅
This is funny. As a dealer let me tell you the best EV to buy is...none. Values are not crashing, they are continuing what they have done from day one. Teslas have some used market but everything else is 20 cents on the dollar at 18 months. Market analysis expects most EV's to be effectively valueless in another two years. "Luxury" EV's will see the worst loss. If you really intend to never sell it, and junk it when the battery dies, maybe. Otherwise you are looking at near 100% loss at future trade-in. Before any of you try and argue, if there was money to be made in EV's I'd be buying them. Makes no difference to me what people drive as long as I make a profit. That said, the EV market is so bad I would genuinely have to think twice if you offered to give me one.
As someone who sells Rivians for a living, I hope they get rid of the tax credit. It will destroy the legacy OEM competition. Rivian is big enough now that we don’t need the tax credit. It only hurts the company’s profitability atp. OEM’s EV’s just aren’t good enough yet. Tesla’s and Rivian’s are. Let us do it for you.
Every government ever have subsidised their local industries to spur the production....incase of US and other oil producing countries, the oil industry is heavily subsidized and in the case of china the ev industry is heavily subsidized.
We weren't really looking at EV, but here in Colorado you were able to walk into a Hyundai dealership and before any negotiations, we had $22.5k off the price of a new Ioniq 5 because of state and federal tax incentives. Two year lease, plus free DC charging for the entire lease, was a no brainer.
One major drawback with the new solid-state batteries, is the swelling of the battery during charging and, ultimately the degradation of the cell after extensive recharging, lithium is a very toxic metal for the environment, not many countries want to mine it, 98% of lithium is not recycled and goes in to land dumps, lithium is very dangerous to recycle and not profitable because it is cheaper to mine than recycle, the huge amount of lithium needed to make just one lithium car is not sustainable for all cars, it takes 1000 gallons of clean water turned toxic just to mine or build one lithium car, just one ! this is just lithium and not including cobalt which is another of many other real toxic metals causing air pollution and vast water pollution when mined ( just horrible for oceans) better solution, hydrogen fuel cell, amazing secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere, after all lithium EV batteries cars most are still connected to oil and coal grids.
An odd note about subsidies. The US companies were given tons of money for this sort of thing but then used the money for stock buy backs and executive bonuses. In fact it was more than (allegedly) China gives to their auto companies. He's not entirely wrong about their popularity if people were more educated. Part of the issue of them being so expensive is because auto companies only want to make vehicles that will give them a large profit margin. It's why they don't sell actual cars anymore but only trucks and SUVs.
CSIS's estimate is ~$230B since 2009 to Chinese EV industry, but there are estimates that China spent about 5% of their GDP. It still doesn't rule out China's gargantuan fossile fuel subsidies every year, or $270+B, to support cheap energy and overcapacity.
The fact that Doug (who does now his way around in the car industry) doesn't know the reality of Chinese electric cars and there prices is very worrying vs the average consumer..
@@EuropeAfricaTripthere are superchargers everywhere. Road trip the Tesla all the time. It's easier and more convenient than gas stations at this point.
I would give the market more free range to figure out the demand of ev’s. The vechiles should speak for themselves. That being said from an environmental standpoint I’d look to renewable energy and trucking and anything that produces a large volume of c02 and reducing it as much as possible. Also investing in carbon capturing facilities would be a good idea
Actually they support EVs in China by reducing the costs for registering a license plate for EVs. Petrol engine cars have to pay high costs for the registration, EVs basically free. This move is drastic but very effective if you want more EVs on the road. (Combined with other factors as lower prices and quite amazing tech
China requires a (auction or lottery based) permit to buy/license an ice Car in some cities has a purchase tax on ice cars, has a trade in incentive to switch to EVs and other incentives.
I kind of agree with Doug to let the free market sort it out but i still think there needs to be some government intervention to incentivise but not force.
Incentives are only a small part of the EV story. The big reason so many automakers went full steam into building and developing EVs comes down to Tesla's valuation. Other auto makers saw Tesla multiples and wanted a seat at the table.
@@jonwhite182 a 300 mile car will be down to 160 mile range in the dead of frozen winter when at 20% degradation. It becomes a city car or one for life in the south at that point.
You guys all have to understand that ALL new technologies all cost way more than they should at the start. It has NOTHING to do with incentives. The first cell phones were over $4,000 in the 80's, so more like 8 or $10,000 in today's money. The first flat panel TV's were $25,000 around the year 2000. The first automobiles were all over $100,000 in today's money.
What a lot of folks forget is that the first automobiles were very unreliable (even songs written about that fact), road network didn't exist yet, and there were no gas stations. It was literally just a hobby toy for the rich - very impractical. ICE vehicles have had 120 years to mature and evolve, EVs will follow a similar path but much faster.
@JasonTaylor-po5xc Correct. Today's people no clue how much worse and rougher that was and how much worse the FUD was for the automobile then. EV's are already on par, and even better, than ICE vehicles today on many levels and instances. Their costs are dropping rapidly, because they are cheaper to build with so many fewer parts, (roughly 30,000 vs 2,000). There are DC Fast chargers everywhere and 3 to 4 new stations are completing their builds each week. Yet, the FUD continues.
Give me a small (think mini Cooper size), cheap ($15K) and cool looking city car that I can park easily in my big city, and that I can charge at work at my apartment bldg, or my house, and I'll buy one. The better if it has systems to avoid hitting peds and people on one or two wheels. As for using the car for any long distance travel, carrying my camping gear, my mountain bike etc.., I'm keeping my 4runner until the wheels fall off. In spite of what Elon says, I do think that reliable hybrids have a place also. The car companies attacked the wrong end of the market.
I love tech, and I love evs but I wont buy because charging from zero to full takes too long so it is impractical for me, and they are cheap to own unless there is battery issue then you are screwed
Most of the western world (ex US) has progressive and severe minimum EV targets that will see EV sales of 60% by 2030 and 100% by 2035. Penalties in the UK are already at around $1.8 billion pound. It’s supply driven - if you want a new car, your only choice will be electric.
The Chinese EV industry is heavily subsidized by their government. BYD alone has received close to $4 billion in government subsidies. They're not cheap over there because of free market capitalism.
It's a very one-sided view. 1. China directly supports EV car manufacturers (instead of providing rebates) - this makes these cars more price competitive around the world 2. One of the biggest limiting factors for EV adoption is charging. 5 years ago France had less EV chargers than Mass, now France has so many, it's shame that US is so behind as the "world's richest country".
It costs over 20,000 dollars to buy a license plate to legally drive in China if it is an ICE vehicle, and there is a long wait to even be allowed to purchase license plate. The 20 k is waved, and no wait if it is an EV.
This is the typical ignorant conversation you find in the US. American consumers are the most ignorant, that’s why they don’t buy EV’s, and this is an ignorant conversation because the only reason EV’s aren’t cheap is because the government places ridiculous tariffs on them. If the free market were allowed to work, the American auto industry would be non existent today!!
EVs don’t work in the US, because America is LARGE. Texas is the size of Western Europe, excluding France, Spain and the UK. All of Europe could fit into one of our football conferences. Americans don’t buy EVs because they aren’t sheeple.
@@jeffforbess6802Lol, what do you mean EVs don't work? The fastest time it takes the Porsche Taycan to get from NYC to LA is now under 40 hours. 10 years ago, it used to be 72 hours with a Model S.
They are reliable until they aren't. Battery / motor failure is catastrophic, and replacement for either is more expensive than the residual cost of the vehicle. Once again, negating to discuss the elephant in the room, which is the environmental catastrophe of the disposal of EVs.
tinyurl.com/ICHDougDemuro
Close Chinese cars are falling apart 0 they trick you into buying them because initially you think they're amazing and the actual problem with electric cars is there isn't enough minerals on Earth there's never going to be an infrastructure powerful enough and big enough to charge them the world needs to go to hydrogen powered cars
Problem with the Chinese electric cars that I'm seeing on the internet when you search for it is they don't have any parts available and they are actually junk and he keeps saying they're good but he has no idea 💡 then you have to talk about the slave labor made to mine the minerals which there isn't enough
0:03 Is this person ignorant?They don't know that battery prices keep going down every year.
Doug is wrong at 7:15 China absolutely subsidieses their electric cars; $3k per vehicle, plus sales tax exempt, plus huge amount if government purchasing to guarantee sales, etc, hundreds of billions dumped into the industry over the past 15 year.
1st, there are no public numbers; 2nd $3k would be a drop in the bucket considering Rivian and Lucid are still losing tens of thousands per car sold. Can't even imagine where you got 15 years from, considering that's pre Tesla production, which is the first company to mass produce consumer EVs.
Completely subsidized and it is almost a crime that they are talked about as if they "figured" it out.
Is $2.700 not $3.000
so is southkroea.
Is there a country where EVs are popular but aren't so heavily subsidized as to make them significantly less expensive to own than an ICE counterpart, like in Norway or China?
2 things needed to spur greater EV adoption in the US.
1. make them cheaper, have good budget options around 25k
2. invest HEAVILY into charging infrastructure
Honestly, I think the government could get by with just number 2 and investing in charging. There are enough good used EVs that are affordable (finally) that people could afford it. I just got a used 2022 ioniq 5 with 4k miles on it for $20k. It's the lowest mileage car I've ever owned and cost less than our used Outback. It has 300+ mile range and charges quickly. The only thing holding that back from literally anything is charging infrastructure.
Leap motor to3 only $16.000 in Europe
Greater EV adoption will happen only when the masses want to buy what EVs offer. Currently there are very few reasons to buy an EV and most are questionable. Better for the planet? Questionable when most electricity today comes from burning fossil fuels. Cheaper to run? Questionable because the difference between fuel and KWH prices are offset by the higher sticker price. The only positive I see is the less costs for maintenance To me the biggest problem is not only lack of infrastructure but the fact that full recharge if an EV takes an hour vs 5 minutes for an ICE car. Ask anyone that took a 15 hour trip to the beach last summer with an ICE car to see what they experienced. They constantly drove at 65 mph and spent 3-4 hours charging making the total trip in 20 hours!!!
@@AB-jz9ns you're right. If EVs were cheaper that would offset the price difference between gas and KWH. If charging infrastructure was improved and more high speed chargers were available it would cut down on charging times.
There are EVs out now in the US that can charge 80% in 20 minutes and I believe this will get even faster in the next few years. There is also an EV brand in China that uses battery swapping instead of charging which brings the "charging" time down to 3-4 minutes, similar to an ICE vehicle. Of course, that would require heavy investment into infrastructure.
I don't think you need heavy charging infrastructure. Specially in the US. It's a cultural thing, EVs are perfect dailies, then you have a second gas car for big trips. I don't see EV adoption at least in the US to come soon. But dual car maybe
The government should not subsidize oil!
Anyone with a clue about how many US industries, cars and homes need oil, and anyone with a clue about national security wouldn't say such a ridiculous thing.
They should not subsidize anything.
@@Daniel_CapitalWhat, are they going to go out of business if we pull the subsidies? All that money just goes to stakeholders and execs. Just like the telecom companies that didn’t build anything out, but all that tax money is still gone, and prices are just as high as ever with just as poor service as every. They just used the money for market consolidation buying each other up until there isn’t competition so they can jack up the prices even higher.
Everyone uses oil or oil based products. Not everyone uses EV cars. I don't want to subsidize toys that we don't need. If it's such a great business model car companies will find a way to make them and profit from it. The only reason they got this far is because the government is forcing them on us.
The US oil industry is profitable and isn't subsidized as much as others. According to the IMF, the US gov't's fossile fuel subsidy was only about $3B in 2022. Now, compare that against China's $270+B fossile fuel subsidies to support cheap energy for industry and overcapacity.
Oil is still heavly subsitized in the US.
Examples please on the oil industry subsidies.
@@sunrisejak2709 just Google it yourself. First result: “It's not just the US: according to the International Energy Agency, fossil fuel handouts hit a global high of $1 trillion in 2022 - the same year Big Oil pulled in a record $4 trillion of income. In the United States, by some estimates taxpayers pay about $20 billion dollars every year to the fossil fuel industry.May 3, 2023
www.budget.senate.gov › press
SEN. WHITEHOUSE ON FOSSIL FUEL SUBSIDIES”
@@sunrisejak2709
20 billion
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_subsidies#Subsidies_by_country
www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs
www.budget.senate.gov/chairman/newsroom/press/sen-whitehouse-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-we-are-subsidizing-the-danger-
@@sunrisejak2709 Google. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies_in_the_United_States
Well there’s the free leases on public land for oil exploration. The other billions are well known in the industry and have been noted in the news for years. You just have to look and allow that information to enter your brain. Not to mention the corporations pay almost no taxes with all their deductions. But dig a bit and you’ll find them on your own.
Ridiculous to say that a $7500 incentive explains the six figures the super rich were paying for the Cybertruck and Hummer. None of them were getting the incentive. The Lucid is also not eligible for the incentive. The Mach-e is not eligible and is selling well.
Are you conveniently ognoring the fact that many non ev's are six figures, such as the Wagoneer?
Mach- E is not selling well, those number are inflated by rental sales. The ford Mach-e has a 284 day inventory, which means they have a significant surplus. I currently sell Hondas and Honda is also inflating the sales volume of the Prologue. Both cars are selling but not at a sustainable rate.
@@Peewyld I didn't say anything about the Mach-E
Most people buying the cyber truck have monthly payments you’d throw up looking at.
@@bigdunks4eva I think you missed the commenter’s point. Proposing that incentives were the reason why very expensive EVs were selling makes no sense, precisely for the reason you state. People who want expensive cars and can afford them buy them whether there is an incentive or not. You and the commenter agree.
Doug saying that the free market should decide. When gasoline is heavily subsidized. Oil companies get billions in subsidies
Maybe he feels the same about oil companies... I do.
Way more than billions
What do you expect from a guy that does infotainment? No one has ever accused him of being some kind of modern day philosophizer.
You realize thay auto makers are being forced into EVs by the government right? That isn't the free market making that decision. Almost every manufacturer is set to be 100% electric in the next 20 to 30 years. The market didn't dictate thay btw.
US fossile fuel subsidies is about $3B vs China's $270B.
I bought a 2016 model X P90D for 26k, down from 116k new. It has about 90% battery health. Previous owner had it wrapped and treated it well. Very happy with it.
I just got a red 2021 Tesla model three still smells brand new with white interior and ppf film. It has 28,000 miles and looks flawless. It has every option including the winter package and was only $28,500. I have been driving a Challenger scatpack for the last eight years and sold that to pay this Tesla off in full. I couldn’t believe how cheap it was. I like it way better than the Dodge.
One major drawback with the new solid-state batteries, is the swelling of the battery during charging and, ultimately the degradation of the cell after extensive recharging, lithium is a very toxic metal for the environment, not many countries want to mine it, 98% of lithium is not recycled and goes in to land dumps, lithium is very dangerous to recycle and not profitable because it is cheaper to mine than recycle, the huge amount of lithium needed to make just one lithium car is not sustainable for all cars, it takes 1000 gallons of clean water turned toxic just to mine or build one lithium car, just one ! this is just lithium and not including cobalt which is another of many other real toxic metals causing air pollution and vast water pollution when mined ( just horrible for oceans) better solution, hydrogen fuel cell, amazing secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere, after all lithium EV batteries cars most are still connected to oil and coal grids.
@@gatoleblanc8432hydrogen fuel cells have their own issues for being commercially viable at the moment too.
The biggest being storage in the vehicle. If you want to have good range you need to have a larger tank or store it at higher pressures (the Mirai as 3 tanks at 10,000psi). And hydrogen fuel cells still heavily rely on batteries
Now if you want to talk about the fueling scenario with them, it’s worse than the charging infrastructure and is significantly farther behind in time to be ready than the charging infrastructure.
Trading a real car for a golf cart😂
@ a “real” car with engine
Failure twice before 40k miles. Drive shaft failure at 60k. PDC failure 61k, rear end issues, hemi tick/mds failure, not to mention dodge dealership illegally putting two fake car wrecks on my carfax and then dodge intentionally unbolting my skid plate which ripped off my bumper and admitting to doing so in a Dodge email for retaliation for reporting Dodge for taking my vehicle to an employees house that was caught on gps.
A real car my ass. Fuck dodge. I drove Dodge the last 10 years. I don’t need to prove anything to you 😂 🤡
@gatoleblanc8432
😂
🗑️
For real. Polestar 2s fully loaded with minimal miles are going for under $30K.
@@LoveStallion the cup holders bug me . #1st world problems
Holy shit, you're not wrong. Doesn't help that they're kinda ugly,, too.
Take a look at the PS3 leases, bonkers if u get the costco rebate too
There is a 2024 dual motor in Jersey for $29,900. Certified used, too. Incredible.
I just bought a 2021 Plaid S w/ 17k miles for 62k OTD from Tesla with their warranty extended and FSD.
Sucks. No hardware 4 in that.
@ HW4 is not worth another 45k to me. The FSD in HW3
Is good enough for the way i use it.
my condolences for dropping 62k on a tesla. You could only justify that if you make your money through commissioned work rather than busting your ass all day. Madness
Model S Performance with lifetime supercharging IS THE BEST DEAL IN THE AUTOMOTIVE WORLD - absolutely INSANELY GREAT and sub 20k for low mile examples
sub 3s to 60, huge hatchback design, camping mode, AWD, and pretty luxe especially with the KILLER factory stereo with sub.
I'm a car guy, lots of BMWs and Porsches, and I love mine!
i thought they got rid of lifetime supercharging?
@@BillyHeanyjust came back only if you buy a new Tesla model S
@@BillyHeany Last available in 2018
China heavily subsidizes the manufacturing of their EVs and their low-cost labor is why their prices are extremely low. Now Norway is a country that's on there way to full EV adoption. 89% of newly sold vehicles are EVs.
Is there a country where EVs are popular but aren't so heavily subsidized as to make them significantly less expensive to own than an ICE counterpart, like in Norway or China?
@@ldisc66 Most countries don't subsidizes as much as China. China also spends $270+B every year in fossile fuel subsidies to support cheap energy and overcapacity.
_"...the demand is just not as strong..."_ 2:37 because all domestic models keep focusing upward on speed and power and luxury. The closest to a people's car was the Nissan Leaf, which did pretty well. Ford went from nothing to the Model A and Model T. Serve the masses, eat with the classes but serve the classes and you will eat with the masses.
On my 4th EV right now - i4 edrive 40, i would not go back to combustion engines. Quiet, clean, fast, inexpensive to maintain. Yes we need more charging infrastructure and we need faster chargers so you can go to a service station and charge up in a reasonably short period of time. We will get there, it is the future - and with solar it can be renewable.
One major drawback with the new solid-state batteries, is the swelling of the battery during charging and, ultimately the degradation of the cell after extensive recharging, lithium is a very toxic metal for the environment, not many countries want to mine it, 98% of lithium is not recycled and goes in to land dumps, lithium is very dangerous to recycle and not profitable because it is cheaper to mine than recycle, the huge amount of lithium needed to make just one lithium car is not sustainable for all cars, it takes 1000 gallons of clean water turned toxic just to mine or build one lithium car, just one ! this is just lithium and not including cobalt which is another of many other real toxic metals causing air pollution and vast water pollution when mined ( just horrible for oceans) better solution, hydrogen fuel cell, amazing secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere, after all lithium EV batteries cars most are still connected to oil and coal grids.
They really just need a dirt cheap electric car. If they had a brand new car for $15k that was just the very basics but had a decent range it would sell like crazy. Most people just need something to take to the store or work and don't wanna get wet in the rain. All the crazy power and features just make cars too expensive.
Fr nice looking little hatchback with 350m of range for $15 I’d buy it as a 5th car.
Luxury ICE vehicles depreciate a lot also. With ICE vehicles, the poor reliability and expensive repairs becomes a ticking time bomb and hurts the retail value. It’s why people often prefer to lease a Mercedes rather than hold on to it for a long time.
Actually there are incentives in China for EVs. When you buy a car in china you have to get a permit. Depending on where you live it could take an exteremely long time and hassle. The Chinese govt said if you buy a EV, there is no permit requirements. Not saying that was the only or even main driver for high EV sales but it was definately an important factor.
In AMERICA we should not have the government forcing such decisions.
@ I don’t think anyone is forcing you to buy a EV. In china or America. It’s an incentive not a mandate like people think. For example out subsidies and incentives for oil in 2022 was $1.2 trillion. Now does that mean that the government is forcing businesses to drill for oil? Or forcing consumers to buy gasoline cars and using petroleum products? Another example would be a manufacture rebate or a sale. If you buy a 12 pack and it was 10% off or had a manufacturer rebate. Would that mean the store or the manufacturer is forcing a consumer to buy a 12 pack?
@@MrRojas54 If everyone used EVs, the Chinese government would not be forced to import oil from America's allies.
Just bought a 2021 model y long range with 33K miles for 26k like a month ago 😅 they are not lying about a great time to buy
Model Y refresh is coming. It's them selling inventory before that. This month incoming.
@@bbk3078 and I ain't made at it 🤣
When the Model 3 hits $13k next year on the used-market, I’ll grab one
You already can if you qualify for ev rebates, IRS has used ev rebates and for both combined $8k off, I got my model 3 dual motor for $17k a year ago, not probably can get one for $15k after incentives.
If the tax credit goes away the used Tesla market will go up not down. The main reason the deprecation is so high right now is two fold. 1. the Tax credits. 2. The price to build and sell has come down due to plant processes and battery cost dropping causing the used prices to take a hit.
I wouldn't. They're build quality will bite you in a year of ownership
@@brianmorgan4792 Said by someone who hasn't owned one. As someone who has owned one 2yr 8 months and 94,500 miles, I can tell you they are still like new.
@ I have an early model 3, it’s better than any German car I’ve had, in terms of reliability. Can’t even compare especially after 100k miles. German cars are money pits.
Just bought a used 2023 Nissan Ariya Platinum+ EForce....top of the line, all optioned....MSRP of $63k+. Like new with 14,000 miles. Purchased for $29,999 from local Nissan dealer. Got a $1,500 WA Used EV Sales Tax Incentive and $4,000 Federal Used EV Tax credit that brings net cost of $24,499 net. Crazy. Great car BTW.
How long does it take to charge? How long is the mile range?
How would you get the used EV federal credit on a vehicle that costs over $25k? That’s the cutoff for used EVs
Seeing Doug with a beard like this definitely caught me off guard
I know I think he looks like he needs a shower
Makes me feel old
That Tesla Model S Plaid for 55K$ shown on the video was just highest bid, not sold for that price 😄
You can get a model S plad under 30k miles for under 50k so idk what you mean
@@adamfink8958post the link then
I have 3 different cars and one of them is a Model S Plaid. Got it for 68K Dec 2023. Damn good car. Very reliable, really only have to potentially worry about tires and brakes and that'll take years
@@tornatic1983 where did you go to find good deals ?
One major drawback with the new solid-state batteries, is the swelling of the battery during charging and, ultimately the degradation of the cell after extensive recharging, lithium is a very toxic metal for the environment, not many countries want to mine it, 98% of lithium is not recycled and goes in to land dumps, lithium is very dangerous to recycle and not profitable because it is cheaper to mine than recycle, the huge amount of lithium needed to make just one lithium car is not sustainable for all cars, it takes 1000 gallons of clean water turned toxic just to mine or build one lithium car, just one ! this is just lithium and not including cobalt which is another of many other real toxic metals causing air pollution and vast water pollution when mined ( just horrible for oceans) better solution, hydrogen fuel cell, amazing secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere, after all lithium EV batteries cars most are still connected to oil and coal grids.
i got my '22 ioniq 5 only $20k w 12k miles! love it with sunnypilot!
Fucking deal.
I live in Baltimore and I lease an EV. Love the car.. but the problem is lack of charging stations! More than 1/2 don’t work.
That’s why everyone is going to the Tesla system. It works.
just bought a 2023 Nissan leaf for $19,500 afer the $4K used EV credit. fun car, very inexpensive to operate, and I wasn't able to find a comparable gas car for under $23K.
not free u basically steal from tax payers. I hate ev people so much
@@bs7090 how did you find the deal ?
@@UniversityTours nissan dealership near my house! they are everywhere at this price
@@bs7090 what’s the warranty for used EV ?
@@UniversityTours nissan certified is 100K miles or 7 years
Picked up a '22 Model Y Performance with 33k miles for $30k from Teslas used inventory.
Graham, I just placed an order for a brand new Model 3, my name is Waleed, and I used your referral code. ☺️ will pick up the car next week. Been a fan of the channel for a while and couldn’t think of anyone better to use, so I used yours. 🤝
Got used 2018 80k mi Tesla model 3 dual motor performance for $17k after incentives, $8k off.
I wanna buy a Porsche Taycan... They are plummeting.. Can anyone advise? Yay or nay .... Budget is 55k-60k... I've always dreamed of owning a porsche (not a cayman or boxster), but they have always been insanely expensive... And this would be a great opportunity to own a good looking porsche
I’m in the same boat I want the Taycan but I’m worried about what gone happen when the battery 8 year warranty runs out to my knowledge Porsche won’t renew or cover it
I paid 13k (after used EV credit) otd on a Chevy Bolt a few weeks ago with 25k miles. The battery pack was recently replaced due to a recall, so I basically have a brand new car!
Great deal
Please, please stay off the 350kW chargers when there are other lower kW chargers free.😊
@@RUSE321 freaking awesome damn
@@RUSE321 where did you find the deal?
Steal!
Canadian government just ended the ev rebate of $5000. I was on the fence about buying a tesla model 3, and upon the news I went out and leased a phev suv because the suv is now the same price as the
Model 3. In my opinion I’m getting more car for what is now the same price. It will be interesting to see what Tesla does with their pricing.
I think that condos and apartments should be encouraged to provide charging. We in Canada have a $5000 incentive which we appreciate. Our dollar is 70 cents on the American. I think $7500 is way too extravagant.
Just bought a 2021 Model S Plaid from Tesla, one owner clean title, blue with cream interior, 21" arachnids and 37k miles for $52k. It's an incredible car for that price.
I just purchased a 2021 Model S Plaid, 28k miles, gray with cream interior, 19 inch wheels for 55,400. If you don’t mind me asking, what were the insurance quotes you received first the vehicle. I was quoted $650 and I’m now uncertain if I should take delivery.
@karread3589 I have Progressive, and the Plaid is $159 per month for full coverage including glass, gap coverage, $60 per day rental car coverage, $1000 deductible, and $100,000/$300,000 coverage. That's with multi car, zero accidents, paperless and auto payment discounts.
@ last question, how many miles do you average annually.
@karread3589 Around 12k, The Tesla is primarily a work commuter. I have an SUV that gets driven as well.
@@karread3589 Around 15,000
I bought 2019 model 3 LR/DM wth 35K miles on it for 18K this year.
Infrastructure or the lact there of is one of the biggest reasons no one wants evs. No one wants to wait in line to charge their car, usually it's packed at the charging stations. No one wants to wait 20 to 30 mins to charge their car.
3:03 the secondary market can absolutely have incentives. WA state will waive sales tax on pre-owned EV sales of $30k or less. The incentives are just done on the state level.
Do I have to live in wa?
$40k still isn't affordable,
Building for the incentives is wrong, build for not having the incentive and let the customer be able to afford the product.
I can buy a 90's jeep for
Only Tesla has the EV scale to survive the incentiveless environment. Others have too few volume and too many models. Tesla has big factories focusing on just a few popular models.
Elon has been very vocal that he doesn’t want government incentives.
Tesla is the only non-Chinese EV maker that will survive
You're right, that's why Elon wants tax incentives abolished. It kills off his competition in the EV market.
Yeap. Tesla exhausted the original EV incentives back in 2018 (200k units) so all sales after that were without any federal incentives until recently.
@@JasonTaylor-po5xcIt’s similar to how Amazon made the most of the time period when online companies were not required to collect local sales tax.
Because you do see a lot of battery pack values under $150,000 mi and the performance models have an issue with oil leaking into their engines. The problem becomes of either one of those things need to be replaced. It basically cost just as much to do that as what the vehicle cost. So it's not worth the perceived savings. Too much risk.
Just bought a low mileage model s 100d for the price of New Suzuki. Best family car ever!
As Stock 1897 stated its INFRASTRUCTURE, creating/improving the ease of charging and then dealing with the stresses that will create on the grid(s) locally and nationally
Maintenance cost?
Wait so what are the best ev cars to buy right now?
Love my $40,000 eqs
Total clickbait. This was about as entertaining as Doug talking about the quirks and features of a 98 Camry CE.
Lease an ID.4 the car sucks but they’re pretty much giving them away and the ownership cost will be significantly cheaper than anything else on the road
He said the Plaid
I like the part of the video where they mention which cars to buy RIGHT NOW
I think the problem with EVs in the US is that 95% of production has been devoted to high end premium/luxury market niches that most people can't afford. VWAG and Toyota have never really went in on the EVs. Hyundai/KIA is trying to fill that void but are still treating those vehicles as if they were premium products in terms of pricing. Also the charging infrastucture in large swaths of the country is severely lacking.
So many people complain about range and charging taking a while at these charging stations... but the thing these people don't realize is you can start every day with a full "tank". It's very likely you would only have to use a charging station outside your home a handful of times per year. The rest of the time you charge it at home while you sleep and wake up with a full battery. Unless you're doing a long trip, or have a day where you are gonna drive hundreds of miles, then you should never have to use an external charger. Just plug it in at home and every day you can go right to work or school or wherever and not have to stop at the gas station on the way.
Exactly this. Once in a blue moon I need to supercharge and it thats 15min. The rest of the time is fully charged, ready to go in the morning, and with solar its free!
@@clarkwilson2670 Exactly! that's the goal right there. solar plus electric vehicle... you're sitting pretty. that should be everyone's goal lol.
You are right but you are skipping out on a lot of drivers that live in apartments.
I would've considered leasing an EV or bought something used if I had a charger at my apartment building.
@ that’s a great point that slipped my mind.
I guess my mind goes to a certain type of person when I think of people that hate on electric cars. Usually dudes, over 30, probably lean conservative, or they are car guys with garage setups lol. Either way, typically older guys that are likely to have a house.
But you’re absolutely right. In an apartment situation, the best you could maybe do is trickle charge with a standard outlet and an extension cord if you could park close to the building. Which wouldn’t be enough to fully charge every day in most instances.
You clearly live in a bubble. The mere fact you assume that everyone owns a home and has a garage is proof of that bubble. “It slipped my mind” of course it did because you live in a bubble 😂😂
The Chinese government directly and heavily subsidizes EVs, both for manufacturers and consumers.
China doesn't want any Oil dependence. Coal plants powering EV's = Energy Independence. And as a bonus they get to sell the world battery components and solar panels. And destroy the Auto industry worldwide, while becoming the dominant car manufacturing country. They are playing the long game.
Either way, they are getting ahead of us. The real problem is the battery tech, they are ahead of us on that now.
If I had the magic wand, I'd focus on recharging. People don't have range anxiety, they have recharging anxiety. We need chargers to be so fast, so common, and so reliable that it's barely worse than pumping gas. Current charging (with the exception of Tesla superchargers) is abysmal.
Biden's Build Back better plan does have subsidies that are meant to help accelerate the development of EV infrastructure; it just took so long to get passed, and so long for grants to be dispersed, bidding, etc. If Trump doesn't gut it, infrastructure should improve.
that is not the reason evs don't sell 🤦♂
@all-caps3927 Why don't they sell? I wish Doug would actually answer that question.
Yea even if it were like two mile per hour charge rate at the grocery store would be nice. Unfortunately, most grids can’t support the volume so..
EV’s don’t sell because people don’t know anything about them. This country is just rampant disinformation and lies about EV’s everywhere.
Got my first model 3 awd 2022 with 35k miles for $26,000. I love it. Almost at 50k miles now🤦🏾♂️😂
What website can i see these tesla they talking about??
75k out the door. Model y performance. Bought sept. 22’
yikes
Ha
In Finland the cheapest Tesla Model S Plaid with 35 000km/21 700 ish miles is currently at 90 000€/92700$. Starting price for that car is 134 000€/138 000$. So at that price it is still too expensive but at 55 000€ they would sell like crazy here. 😅
This is funny. As a dealer let me tell you the best EV to buy is...none. Values are not crashing, they are continuing what they have done from day one. Teslas have some used market but everything else is 20 cents on the dollar at 18 months. Market analysis expects most EV's to be effectively valueless in another two years. "Luxury" EV's will see the worst loss. If you really intend to never sell it, and junk it when the battery dies, maybe. Otherwise you are looking at near 100% loss at future trade-in.
Before any of you try and argue, if there was money to be made in EV's I'd be buying them. Makes no difference to me what people drive as long as I make a profit. That said, the EV market is so bad I would genuinely have to think twice if you offered to give me one.
Look at Tesla they won't sell anyone the parts to repair, so person regardless of skill (or garage) can not easily get those parts
As someone who sells Rivians for a living, I hope they get rid of the tax credit. It will destroy the legacy OEM competition. Rivian is big enough now that we don’t need the tax credit. It only hurts the company’s profitability atp. OEM’s EV’s just aren’t good enough yet. Tesla’s and Rivian’s are. Let us do it for you.
Every government ever have subsidised their local industries to spur the production....incase of US and other oil producing countries, the oil industry is heavily subsidized and in the case of china the ev industry is heavily subsidized.
China spends the most on fossile fuel subsidies than any other country in this planet.
We weren't really looking at EV, but here in Colorado you were able to walk into a Hyundai dealership and before any negotiations, we had $22.5k off the price of a new Ioniq 5 because of state and federal tax incentives. Two year lease, plus free DC charging for the entire lease, was a no brainer.
Got the same deal on Jersey and living my 5!!
One major drawback with the new solid-state batteries, is the swelling of the battery during charging and, ultimately the degradation of the cell after extensive recharging, lithium is a very toxic metal for the environment, not many countries want to mine it, 98% of lithium is not recycled and goes in to land dumps, lithium is very dangerous to recycle and not profitable because it is cheaper to mine than recycle, the huge amount of lithium needed to make just one lithium car is not sustainable for all cars, it takes 1000 gallons of clean water turned toxic just to mine or build one lithium car, just one ! this is just lithium and not including cobalt which is another of many other real toxic metals causing air pollution and vast water pollution when mined ( just horrible for oceans) better solution, hydrogen fuel cell, amazing secret about hydrogen fuel cell cars is that each car actually cleans the air as it runs due to it`s clean watered electrolysis when released onto the atmosphere, after all lithium EV batteries cars most are still connected to oil and coal grids.
Thoughts on the VW e-Golf?
I'm waiting a few more weeks to see what happens with the Cadillac Lyriq
What u mean what deals they offer ? Me too
@thegnomegang6825 obviously electric cars prices are dropping every week, just make sure to get a home charger before investing in one
@veelowmuymalo7258 I'm looking at financing a level 3 luxury for about 1k insurance is 250 ish
Practicality speaks loud with the numbers.
An odd note about subsidies. The US companies were given tons of money for this sort of thing but then used the money for stock buy backs and executive bonuses. In fact it was more than (allegedly) China gives to their auto companies. He's not entirely wrong about their popularity if people were more educated. Part of the issue of them being so expensive is because auto companies only want to make vehicles that will give them a large profit margin. It's why they don't sell actual cars anymore but only trucks and SUVs.
CSIS's estimate is ~$230B since 2009 to Chinese EV industry, but there are estimates that China spent about 5% of their GDP. It still doesn't rule out China's gargantuan fossile fuel subsidies every year, or $270+B, to support cheap energy and overcapacity.
Lease deals on EVs are even better.
The fact that Doug (who does now his way around in the car industry) doesn't know the reality of Chinese electric cars and there prices is very worrying vs the average consumer..
You guys are missing a big part of the proposition - ample, reliable charging infrastructure!
There is plenty and Tesla brings more online every week. SCs are within 150 miles or less of eachother.
If you don’t take road trips & can charge at home it won’t be an issue anywhere in the country
@@EuropeAfricaTripthere are superchargers everywhere. Road trip the Tesla all the time. It's easier and more convenient than gas stations at this point.
ADX tokens are the future of E-commerce and DeFi. Glad I got in on the presale early for 2025 gains!
Tesla is fast and fun. The winter months are very difficult with running heat and the batteries.
I would give the market more free range to figure out the demand of ev’s. The vechiles should speak for themselves. That being said from an environmental standpoint I’d look to renewable energy and trucking and anything that produces a large volume of c02 and reducing it as much as possible. Also investing in carbon capturing facilities would be a good idea
Actually they support EVs in China by reducing the costs for registering a license plate for EVs. Petrol engine cars have to pay high costs for the registration, EVs basically free. This move is drastic but very effective if you want more EVs on the road. (Combined with other factors as lower prices and quite amazing tech
You can get a used Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor for under $20,000 all day long.
Yea fuxk no. Dealing with tesla I can imagine being like becoming a kafka character
China requires a (auction or lottery based) permit to buy/license an ice Car in some cities has a purchase tax on ice cars, has a trade in incentive to switch to EVs and other incentives.
Doug is right about the incentives…just give it to everyone.
I kind of agree with Doug to let the free market sort it out but i still think there needs to be some government intervention to incentivise but not force.
I have a Xiaomi dashcam I bought over 6 years ago that I still use. I knew they made cell phones back then. Didn’t know they make cars now.
Incentives are only a small part of the EV story. The big reason so many automakers went full steam into building and developing EVs comes down to Tesla's valuation. Other auto makers saw Tesla multiples and wanted a seat at the table.
Projects like Adaxum are rare. Locked in my position today, and I’m feeling great about it.
I would buy one if I knew the battery wouldn't degrade over 6-8 years rendering the car mechanically totaled.
All batteries degrade. 10% loss at 100K Miles and 20% loss at 200K miles is the well documented "bad normal" end of the curve.
@@stephkent2736that’s not even half bad
@@jonwhite182 a 300 mile car will be down to 160 mile range in the dead of frozen winter when at 20% degradation. It becomes a city car or one for life in the south at that point.
It’s literally no different than the loss of a hop over time in a car.
I got a 21 M3 LR with 20K miles and FSD for 30K OTD. Waiting for the EV crash was awesome for me.
I just got a 2025 M3 LR with FSD, uncharged wheels and paint for $34k OTD
@ that’s amazing where did you state incentives?
Adaxum’s presale is a golden opportunity. Grabbed my ADX tokens just in time!
If I had a magic wand, I'd make a battery that can hold 1000kwh/kg and is as cheap/expensive as the current batteries.
Section 179 deduction (accelerated depreciation) on the heavier EVs…
Lucid Air is solid. You can’t go wrong.
You guys all have to understand that ALL new technologies all cost way more than they should at the start. It has NOTHING to do with incentives.
The first cell phones were over $4,000 in the 80's, so more like 8 or $10,000 in today's money.
The first flat panel TV's were $25,000 around the year 2000.
The first automobiles were all over $100,000 in today's money.
What a lot of folks forget is that the first automobiles were very unreliable (even songs written about that fact), road network didn't exist yet, and there were no gas stations. It was literally just a hobby toy for the rich - very impractical. ICE vehicles have had 120 years to mature and evolve, EVs will follow a similar path but much faster.
@JasonTaylor-po5xc Correct. Today's people no clue how much worse and rougher that was and how much worse the FUD was for the automobile then. EV's are already on par, and even better, than ICE vehicles today on many levels and instances. Their costs are dropping rapidly, because they are cheaper to build with so many fewer parts, (roughly 30,000 vs 2,000). There are DC Fast chargers everywhere and 3 to 4 new stations are completing their builds each week. Yet, the FUD continues.
Give me a small (think mini Cooper size), cheap ($15K) and cool looking city car that I can park easily in my big city, and that I can charge at work at my apartment bldg, or my house, and I'll buy one. The better if it has systems to avoid hitting peds and people on one or two wheels. As for using the car for any long distance travel, carrying my camping gear, my mountain bike etc.., I'm keeping my 4runner until the wheels fall off. In spite of what Elon says, I do think that reliable hybrids have a place also. The car companies attacked the wrong end of the market.
I also got my Model 3 in August of 2023 then boom lmao the price change happened
I love tech, and I love evs but I wont buy because charging from zero to full takes too long so it is impractical for me, and they are cheap to own unless there is battery issue then you are screwed
You forgot to mention the astronomical insurance for an EV
The bots are out today! 😂
Haha I was like is going on with these comments hahaha
And we are coming for you BLEEP BLOOP!
i got a 2021 M3 SR+ with 15,000 for 22,500 and a 4000 tax incentive. I thought it was a great deal.
Most of the western world (ex US) has progressive and severe minimum EV targets that will see EV sales of 60% by 2030 and 100% by 2035. Penalties in the UK are already at around $1.8 billion pound. It’s supply driven - if you want a new car, your only choice will be electric.
The Chinese EV industry is heavily subsidized by their government. BYD alone has received close to $4 billion in government subsidies. They're not cheap over there because of free market capitalism.
@@dmcarstensen is free market Socialist
"...if they were priced right". BINGO!
Where is the part where Doug recommends what EVs to buy?
It's a very one-sided view.
1. China directly supports EV car manufacturers (instead of providing rebates) - this makes these cars more price competitive around the world
2. One of the biggest limiting factors for EV adoption is charging. 5 years ago France had less EV chargers than Mass, now France has so many, it's shame that US is so behind as the "world's richest country".
Got into the Adaxum presale after reading their whitepaper. The future looks promising!
Theres more supply then demand now. Its already happening with the cybertruck
@@johncoinas You want demand. Lower the price
It costs over 20,000 dollars to buy a license plate to legally drive in China if it is an ICE vehicle, and there is a long wait to even be allowed to purchase license plate. The 20 k is waved, and no wait if it is an EV.
The western world is naive to how China actually works. They just assume it's pure capitalism which is about as far from truth as you can get.
No tax on Chinese ev cars where I live in Europe. Prices starts at 15000 $
This is the typical ignorant conversation you find in the US. American consumers are the most ignorant, that’s why they don’t buy EV’s, and this is an ignorant conversation because the only reason EV’s aren’t cheap is because the government places ridiculous tariffs on them. If the free market were allowed to work, the American auto industry would be non existent today!!
EVs don’t work in the US, because America is LARGE. Texas is the size of Western Europe, excluding France, Spain and the UK. All of Europe could fit into one of our football conferences. Americans don’t buy EVs because they aren’t sheeple.
@@jeffforbess6802Lol, what do you mean EVs don't work? The fastest time it takes the Porsche Taycan to get from NYC to LA is now under 40 hours. 10 years ago, it used to be 72 hours with a Model S.
They are reliable until they aren't. Battery / motor failure is catastrophic, and replacement for either is more expensive than the residual cost of the vehicle. Once again, negating to discuss the elephant in the room, which is the environmental catastrophe of the disposal of EVs.