This workflow is FANTASTIC. The idea of a "no bake" workflow is such a good idea. I have spent soo much time baking geometry one category at a time as I go using Dynamo/Rynamo; but this seems much more efficient. I am just hoping the "find similar member" component does not become too much of a bottleneck for larger Revit models. Thank you for making this!
Yep the no-bake approach has worked wonders on analysis projects such as ladybug studies. One handy feature I've found is that now you can limit how many features the element query picks up, so if you flag the elements as updated each time, you can update the elements in the model a handful at a time instead. More manageable for bigger models.
That's a clean ordely workflow you got there... Good stuff. It's great to see someone else using elefront, I feel it doesn't get enough exposure. It totally changed how I work over the past year
Thanks, I agree it definitely isn't used as widely as I'd expect. I find many Rhino users don't tend to be heavily focused on data but even internally it has a lot of uses for tracking historical shape data in transformative workflows that can be called on later.
for step 4 you need to input both Name and Layer on the new Elefront Attributes otherwise you will have name deleted and layer color turn to black. Just to help anyone stack
@@aferrarotto2146 it's down the bottom left of the element tab, the name and its inputs have been changed. It can now be used as both a get or set parameter node by removing or adding the V input
Thank you for the workflow. How would you manage revit objects like windows when you need to put each geometry to its layer according to its material? The FBX exporter exports the whole window under one ID.
In that instance you have two options; develop an extensive script, likely using a fair bit of revit API to import objects by layer then block it up via rhino inside, or have equivalent blocks premade in rhino to place where those families would otherwise need to go. Generally i use fbx when dealing with revit for analysis purposes in rhino where materiality is usually less crucial beyond glass, which I tend to hide using subcategories and filters (and to isolate) as 2 exports instead.
Yes I have found that if the dataset is too large it can sometimes struggle. I suggest partitioning the list into smaller pieces and processing them in parcels at a time.
For analysis where mesh is suffice yes i find it best. Having the element ID readily available in an element by combined geometry is amazing as well, brep.join can't always meet this need as it relies on all breps touching to form a brep per element. If an element is needed for transformation in rhino then brep is fine, but these fall under very specific cases in my experience (e.g. room outlines).
@@AussieBIMGuru thank you for the insight into mesh versus brep workflows. I'm working through your series of videos that build on this workflow. I'd like to use the workflow for daylighting studies. I believe mesh will work for these studies (especially after seeing you sunlit hours study). As a backup, do you have a video for importing breps using Rhino.Inside via Grasshopper?
@@justinshultz4775 for internal daylight i would focus on room volumes instead. Extrude door/window profiles to meet the volumes, intersect them from the room shells. This should give the fundamental zones for honeybee analysis. From here the context can be mesh if needed in addition to the analysis forms. I will likely experiment with this soon and aim for a video mid to late year if i have success. For now the above workflow is a WIP concept I've mentally mapped out.
@@AussieBIMGuru I really like the idea of using the room volumes. I've thought about a similar process for using Rhino.Inside to generate thermal zones for building energy modeling. The most difficult part is identifying which surfaces are exterior and interior and how to connect adjacent zones. This is a lot more challenging than a daylighting setup, so I'm starting with daylighting. I believe the mesh workflow you have in your videos may work if I'm using ClimateStudio (rhino or grasshopper) instead of Honeybee. I'll test and let you know!
Technically possible I guess. I try not to use Rhino for 2D drawing production, but I guess not everyone uses Revit so it would be interesting to see if people have had success with such an approach.
@@AussieBIMGuru I've actually been doing something similar recently in a project. Using the make 2d node to create drawings for retaining walls (I work mainly on bridges and the like so have little experience with architectural layouts) . The biggest issue has been to get a clean layout for my measurements. The drawings come out fine and orderly and passing through layer info and object data is easy enough, but there are too many uncertainties for a complete sensible layout without at least some manual work after the fact
You're welcome! Not sure if you found it, but i have a 5 part intro series. It's a bit outdated unfortunately, but might still introduce some concepts to help you get further into rhino inside.
Hi, thank you for the great tutorial! I would like to ask you if you have a solution for managing elements ID if there are various lengths? In your case, you extracted Ids with 7 digits. What about if you have from 6 to 7 digits?
Hey! I had a question. My Text Fragment node is not fully working for some reason. An error comes up as "start index beyond end of text grasshopper". Do you know how to fix this?
Since making this I came across this issue as well, it's due to some elements not always having the same Id length unfortunately. In this case, try the following; 1. Rhino attributes N output 2. Connect to the3 T input of a 'text split' node 3. For the C input of the text split, connect a panel with [] (the two brackets, side by side) 4. Connect the output of the text split to a list item node, and call on the index of -2 (second to last item). This should return the Id, regardless of variable length.
there is a one problem, when i click the button for send data in grashhopper, all layer turned into black from color layer in rhino, it convert to default layer, whats the problem is this?
hi BIM Guru, thank you for this useful tip, I installed elefront in my grasshopper but I cannot see the Elefront panel inside rhino? any help? thank you very much, Joel
Not quite sure, I've had no issues in the past. Maybe check that the files aren't protected from Windows in their properties - this is a common reason why lots of files don't show in Grasshopper/Rhino. Beyond that, I would hit up the forums for Elefront; www.grasshopper3d.com/group/elefront
Hey, I cannot find the component Define object attributes in eleFront. I have the latest EleFront plugin. Is there an updated component for that one which has a different name?
I think that there is some issue with my elefront I cannot see it in spite trying all the versions. Can you please suggest an alternative component to "Define Object Attributes" component?@@AussieBIMGuru
Hey thanks for this excellent tutorial! Just wondering are these materials really could be transferred to rhino materials and render in Enscape? Is there any possibility we could control the mapping channel of them in grasshopper?
From what I've tried it doesn't seem to be possible unfortunately. Exporting as DWG my material from Revit may potentially provide a method to match geometry by material at least, but the material mapping in Revit and the UV mapping/channels in Rhino hasn't been matchable in my experience so far.
It has had its name changed and should be in the bottom left of the element tab. You can remove the V input in the new node to make it a get parameter (instead of set).
@@AussieBIMGuru So it would be element Parameter? The //id will be connected to P? then output E, P AND CONNECT TO TO fIND SIMILAR MEMBER? thanks so much really
@@aferrarotto2146 unfortunately I'm not at my computer currently, but the node by default should have three inputs (E/P/V). If you zoom into the node, you can remove (-) the V input, which effectively makes the node function as a get parameter node. The workflow should be the same from here.
@@AussieBIMGuru thanks a lot. I find it hard to do it now as i get an error saying Parameter ID in not defined in Element. From here on i get also errors in the category identity. Thanks so much man I really appreciate it
@@aferrarotto2146 make sure you type it with proper case. In this case it should be 'Id'. Same goes for categories, the case must be 100% correct including any spaces.
Slight aside here, but do you have any experience using the data input and data output nodes for multi user workflows? I have the ambition of getting the rest of my office into using grasshopper collaboratively and think it's part of the solution but haven't explored it much yet
None at all, wasnt aware of this possibility! I've usually only been one of a few users in GH at each office I've worked at so not sure what types of workflows it could support.
@@AussieBIMGuru I only found it recently myself and I've only done a little testing but it seems to pass any gh compatible data into a ghdata file that can be referenced via an input node with trees intact. It looks very promising assuming multiple gh users in a single project
@@TheSameDonkey it does sound interesting, I'll look into it. The challenge would be that only one user can work on a rhino model at once i guess, so it's maybe more like separating a code into working parts for larger jobs?
@@AussieBIMGuru you can be multiple users in a single file using the worksessions feature. Though I do see your point in that it would take a fair bit of planning to create sensible divisions of labour and file ownership in a project
@@AussieBIMGuru Hi, more questions here. It takes too much time (desktop well-equipped) when execute step 5&6 sending data and add materials not like the click-and-done you demonstrate in the video. And worse, Elefront shows the same KEY and VALUE for every objects in Rhino after button pressed. I tried different model and it ended up same situation.
Hi, thanks for these tutorials! I followed your other tutorials on exporting rooms and went back to do this one as well. However, when I run the script with the Revit sample file, it somehow mis-matches the ID's of materials and layers - for example the roof is in the Window-layer etc. Do you know if I might be missing something?
It sounds like a tree/list structure issue. Cross check that all the values are in the right order as you pass them to the attributes node, and that the graft has worked. Hard to say from a general perspective.
Because meshes are light and workable vs breps. Breps as far as I know can only be preserved using direct workflows like Rhino Inside bake by category. I find this method can lead to bloated file sizes and missing elements, so an fbx to mesh import has been more reliable for me so far. If you know an easy export > import method for anything other than mesh feel free to let me know! Typically for workflows such as solar analysis by room I bake the rooms over separately via Rhino Inside as surfaces, but bring the context over as mesh via this workflow.
This workflow is FANTASTIC. The idea of a "no bake" workflow is such a good idea. I have spent soo much time baking geometry one category at a time as I go using Dynamo/Rynamo; but this seems much more efficient. I am just hoping the "find similar member" component does not become too much of a bottleneck for larger Revit models. Thank you for making this!
Yep the no-bake approach has worked wonders on analysis projects such as ladybug studies. One handy feature I've found is that now you can limit how many features the element query picks up, so if you flag the elements as updated each time, you can update the elements in the model a handful at a time instead. More manageable for bigger models.
Thankyou very much for the workflow. Always happy learning from you.. 🙂🙂
You're welcome!
That's a clean ordely workflow you got there... Good stuff.
It's great to see someone else using elefront, I feel it doesn't get enough exposure. It totally changed how I work over the past year
Thanks, I agree it definitely isn't used as widely as I'd expect. I find many Rhino users don't tend to be heavily focused on data but even internally it has a lot of uses for tracking historical shape data in transformative workflows that can be called on later.
for step 4 you need to input both Name and Layer on the new Elefront Attributes otherwise you will have name deleted and layer color turn to black. Just to help anyone stack
Thanks for the tip!
Hi, any idea why I can't find "Get Element Parameter" function? Is the name changed?
Thank you
Last I checked it was the same name, and should be down the bottom of the element panel in the main Revit tab of Rhino Inside.
@@AussieBIMGuru Cant find it either
@@aferrarotto2146 it's down the bottom left of the element tab, the name and its inputs have been changed. It can now be used as both a get or set parameter node by removing or adding the V input
Thank you for the workflow.
How would you manage revit objects like windows when you need to put each geometry to its layer according to its material? The FBX exporter exports the whole window under one ID.
In that instance you have two options; develop an extensive script, likely using a fair bit of revit API to import objects by layer then block it up via rhino inside, or have equivalent blocks premade in rhino to place where those families would otherwise need to go. Generally i use fbx when dealing with revit for analysis purposes in rhino where materiality is usually less crucial beyond glass, which I tend to hide using subcategories and filters (and to isolate) as 2 exports instead.
Any idea why the rename attributes doesn't work? After clicking 'activate', name columns become blank...
I try much simpler model (like 12 only meshes) and it work. So I think the problem is in the meshes.
Yes I have found that if the dataset is too large it can sometimes struggle. I suggest partitioning the list into smaller pieces and processing them in parcels at a time.
With all the changes to Rhino.Inside do you still find the best workflow to be exporting the FBX?
For analysis where mesh is suffice yes i find it best. Having the element ID readily available in an element by combined geometry is amazing as well, brep.join can't always meet this need as it relies on all breps touching to form a brep per element. If an element is needed for transformation in rhino then brep is fine, but these fall under very specific cases in my experience (e.g. room outlines).
@@AussieBIMGuru thank you for the insight into mesh versus brep workflows. I'm working through your series of videos that build on this workflow. I'd like to use the workflow for daylighting studies. I believe mesh will work for these studies (especially after seeing you sunlit hours study).
As a backup, do you have a video for importing breps using Rhino.Inside via Grasshopper?
@@justinshultz4775 for internal daylight i would focus on room volumes instead. Extrude door/window profiles to meet the volumes, intersect them from the room shells. This should give the fundamental zones for honeybee analysis. From here the context can be mesh if needed in addition to the analysis forms.
I will likely experiment with this soon and aim for a video mid to late year if i have success. For now the above workflow is a WIP concept I've mentally mapped out.
@@AussieBIMGuru I really like the idea of using the room volumes. I've thought about a similar process for using Rhino.Inside to generate thermal zones for building energy modeling. The most difficult part is identifying which surfaces are exterior and interior and how to connect adjacent zones. This is a lot more challenging than a daylighting setup, so I'm starting with daylighting.
I believe the mesh workflow you have in your videos may work if I'm using ClimateStudio (rhino or grasshopper) instead of Honeybee. I'll test and let you know!
Thank You for the workflow it's very fascinating. I'm curious how the make 2d function will work with Your model in order to create floor plans :)
Technically possible I guess. I try not to use Rhino for 2D drawing production, but I guess not everyone uses Revit so it would be interesting to see if people have had success with such an approach.
@@AussieBIMGuru I've actually been doing something similar recently in a project. Using the make 2d node to create drawings for retaining walls (I work mainly on bridges and the like so have little experience with architectural layouts) . The biggest issue has been to get a clean layout for my measurements. The drawings come out fine and orderly and passing through layer info and object data is easy enough, but there are too many uncertainties for a complete sensible layout without at least some manual work after the fact
Thanks for the reply in the Balkan Video and for this video as well.
You're welcome! Not sure if you found it, but i have a 5 part intro series. It's a bit outdated unfortunately, but might still introduce some concepts to help you get further into rhino inside.
Hi, thank you for the great tutorial! I would like to ask you if you have a solution for managing elements ID if there are various lengths? In your case, you extracted Ids with 7 digits. What about if you have from 6 to 7 digits?
These days I split the string at the [ from the rightmost end of the name and replace the ] with an empty string, then take the last fragment.
@@AussieBIMGuru Thank you very much for your support!
Hey! I had a question. My Text Fragment node is not fully working for some reason. An error comes up as "start index beyond end of text grasshopper". Do you know how to fix this?
Since making this I came across this issue as well, it's due to some elements not always having the same Id length unfortunately. In this case, try the following;
1. Rhino attributes N output
2. Connect to the3 T input of a 'text split' node
3. For the C input of the text split, connect a panel with [] (the two brackets, side by side)
4. Connect the output of the text split to a list item node, and call on the index of -2 (second to last item).
This should return the Id, regardless of variable length.
there is a one problem, when i click the button for send data in grashhopper, all layer turned into black from color layer in rhino, it convert to default layer, whats the problem is this?
My best guess is there is a mismatch in layers between names or a data type error (e.g. category instead of name of category).
@@AussieBIMGuru ok thanks.
hi BIM Guru, thank you for this useful tip, I installed elefront in my grasshopper but I cannot see the Elefront panel inside rhino? any help?
thank you very much,
Joel
Not quite sure, I've had no issues in the past. Maybe check that the files aren't protected from Windows in their properties - this is a common reason why lots of files don't show in Grasshopper/Rhino.
Beyond that, I would hit up the forums for Elefront;
www.grasshopper3d.com/group/elefront
Hey, I cannot find the component Define object attributes in eleFront. I have the latest EleFront plugin. Is there an updated component for that one which has a different name?
I can see it in latest elefront on tab 3, third node down.
I think that there is some issue with my elefront I cannot see it in spite trying all the versions. Can you please suggest an alternative component to "Define Object Attributes" component?@@AussieBIMGuru
@@est9905 try Human package instead, it has some nodes for this I believe. Not experienced with them though as i generally use elefront.
Hey thanks for this excellent tutorial! Just wondering are these materials really could be transferred to rhino materials and render in Enscape? Is there any possibility we could control the mapping channel of them in grasshopper?
From what I've tried it doesn't seem to be possible unfortunately. Exporting as DWG my material from Revit may potentially provide a method to match geometry by material at least, but the material mapping in Revit and the UV mapping/channels in Rhino hasn't been matchable in my experience so far.
I cant find the Get parameter component. Is there a way we can use Elelment Parameter to do the same thing ?
It has had its name changed and should be in the bottom left of the element tab. You can remove the V input in the new node to make it a get parameter (instead of set).
@@AussieBIMGuru So it would be element Parameter? The //id will be connected to P? then output E, P AND CONNECT TO TO fIND SIMILAR MEMBER? thanks so much really
@@aferrarotto2146 unfortunately I'm not at my computer currently, but the node by default should have three inputs (E/P/V). If you zoom into the node, you can remove (-) the V input, which effectively makes the node function as a get parameter node. The workflow should be the same from here.
@@AussieBIMGuru thanks a lot. I find it hard to do it now as i get an error saying Parameter ID in not defined in Element. From here on i get also errors in the category identity. Thanks so much man I really appreciate it
@@aferrarotto2146 make sure you type it with proper case. In this case it should be 'Id'. Same goes for categories, the case must be 100% correct including any spaces.
Slight aside here, but do you have any experience using the data input and data output nodes for multi user workflows? I have the ambition of getting the rest of my office into using grasshopper collaboratively and think it's part of the solution but haven't explored it much yet
None at all, wasnt aware of this possibility! I've usually only been one of a few users in GH at each office I've worked at so not sure what types of workflows it could support.
@@AussieBIMGuru I only found it recently myself and I've only done a little testing but it seems to pass any gh compatible data into a ghdata file that can be referenced via an input node with trees intact. It looks very promising assuming multiple gh users in a single project
@@TheSameDonkey it does sound interesting, I'll look into it. The challenge would be that only one user can work on a rhino model at once i guess, so it's maybe more like separating a code into working parts for larger jobs?
@@AussieBIMGuru you can be multiple users in a single file using the worksessions feature. Though I do see your point in that it would take a fair bit of planning to create sensible divisions of labour and file ownership in a project
Hi, do you have lower revit version model like 2019 so that I can use. Appreciate your tutorial!!
Unfortunately not. 2020 is usually the oldest version I use these days.
@@AussieBIMGuru Thanks for replying! It’s fine though.
@@AussieBIMGuru Hi, more questions here. It takes too much time (desktop well-equipped) when execute step 5&6 sending data and add materials not like the click-and-done you demonstrate in the video. And worse, Elefront shows the same KEY and VALUE for every objects in Rhino after button pressed. I tried different model and it ended up same situation.
Reduce your input to 2 or 3 elements to see what might be happening. It is likely an input requiring graft, but hard to say.
Hi, thanks for these tutorials! I followed your other tutorials on exporting rooms and went back to do this one as well. However, when I run the script with the Revit sample file, it somehow mis-matches the ID's of materials and layers - for example the roof is in the Window-layer etc. Do you know if I might be missing something?
It sounds like a tree/list structure issue. Cross check that all the values are in the right order as you pass them to the attributes node, and that the graft has worked. Hard to say from a general perspective.
Problem on View in Revit. Put the model in 3D View
but why fbx?. It creates meshes.
Because meshes are light and workable vs breps. Breps as far as I know can only be preserved using direct workflows like Rhino Inside bake by category. I find this method can lead to bloated file sizes and missing elements, so an fbx to mesh import has been more reliable for me so far. If you know an easy export > import method for anything other than mesh feel free to let me know!
Typically for workflows such as solar analysis by room I bake the rooms over separately via Rhino Inside as surfaces, but bring the context over as mesh via this workflow.
Precisely. Breps can become too heavy if you are using a massive model.