The Twilight of Democracy: A Conversation with Anne Applebaum
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- Опубліковано 28 кві 2021
- Author Anne Applebaum has chronicled the rise of European right wing politics for more than two decades. Weaving history with current events, Anne stresses how fragile our democracy really is and the importance of staying vigilant against the threat of authoritarianism. Also she makes clear in this interview that just because Trump is out of office, that doesn’t mean the United States is in the clear.
Anne's Website: AnneApplebaum.com
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Twilight of Democracy: bookshop.org/books/twilight-o...
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We absolutely must democratize the work place to have real democracy.
Thank you so much Marianne Williamson madam. Humility and lot of love, light, respect and Gratitude 🙏💜🌹
Wow! Thank you for this conversation and for introducing me to Anne Applebaum. I'm going to have to look into her writing, and I look forward to sharing.
Thank you for another insightful conversation!
Thank you for a great conversation
Thanks for sharing you’re observations and insights!
From what you have said in this video, it appears democracy would really flourish if our institutions like Facebook were public, not privately owned.
Facebook is merely a company, not an institution. If you don’t like it you are free to simply ignore them/it. People have choices to make in their lives, Facebook is simply one of many, and not a particularly important one at that.
Thank you Marianne for your honesty and directness concerning Reago\anomics.
Marianne, this podcast brings absolute clarity about democracy, the threats that impact it, and how the people must be better educated about it in order to preserve it. Bravo for having this great author on your show! I will share this podcast with others--great background for young people for certain; yet, intergenerational support is truly needed too!
So wise !
“If there is one fact we really can prove, from the history that we really do know, it is that despotism can be a development, often a late development and very often indeed the end of societies that have been highly democratic. A despotism may almost be defined as a tired democracy. As fatigue falls on a community, the citizens are less inclined for that eternal vigilance which has truly been called the price of liberty; and they prefer to arm only one single sentinel to watch the city while they sleep.” ― G.K. Chesterton, The Everlasting Man
This podcast is a national treasure...you are thoughtful and insightful...your guests are brilliant experts whose generosity of time is greatly appreciated as it enlivens us and helps to expand our base of knowledge...thank you...Linda
What a great interview. Really impressed with the interviewer
thanks for enlightened conversation
There's a point when you don't want to pledge allegiance anymore because of the hypocrisy. Having someone force you beyond that is motivating.
So also according to Anne, when our public institutions fail us in mass due to corruption and incompetence, we become frustrated and want to reform them, then we automatically become "far right".
So many on the left define old fashioned middle class instincts and traditional values as undemocratic, uninformed, etc. Democracy was created by a group of English protestants, the institutions that we value were defined then... for as long they exist, this country will continue to be great. When Roman republic gave citizenship to all - it disappeared...gangs were roaming the streets of Rome, the order was preserved only by a military system... So I would say to ms. Applebaub - please assume that you are naive, and perhap YOU are misinformed....
Applebaum gets into this over here, that over there, and so on when all we need to do is change the economic structure from capitalism to cooperatives.
You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but the history of cooperatives, better known as Socialism, is not particularly encouraging. Some of the European states have done reasonably well with it but they, too, have largely reverted to a Capitalist economic system. I, for myself, think you’d get more done by addressing the immediate needs of the poor via unconditional, direct cash payments. That’s just my opinion, of course, but there are a good few economists that support it as well.
Anne Applebaum does a great work.
This should get more views.
Hey Marianne, loving this podcast, and a lot of your recent efforts elsewhere. Based on the most recent few, I think you'd get a lot out of, and really enjoy, the book The Listening Society by Hanzi Frienacht.
It's from a new branch of philosophers calling themselves the metamodernists focusing on developmental psychology and synthesis of postmodernism and modernism. It's like an updated, less problematic but not without it's pitfalls, update on Wilbur's work in the integral community. The book presents some really fascinating perspectives on a wide variety of the crises we face today as a society and some novel ways of thinking about our approach to them.
A lot of what you've been talking about across a couple episodes is termed "the meaning making crisis" by that community which, has to do with the breakdown of many of the sources of interaction from which we built our collective experience. Things like local diners, pubs, public parks, walkable communities transforming into car culture, careers turning into high turnover rates, churches being replaced with televangelism, etc. all contribute, above and beyond the takeover of media.
Strong towns, not just bikes, City beautiful are all projects working towards bringing back healthy zoning and infrastructure practices that'd help move us back towards having a public, in which we can make meaning outside of media's narratives, not to mention improving local economic health.
"But there ARE people who..." (?) Spit it out, Marianne! 😉
I think that you could add my country to those who are forgetting their historical roots in democracy and flirting with authoritarianism. From the Israel Declaration of Independence in May, 1948: "The State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations." Like the US we have never achieved this beautiful ideal, and we too are struggling with political polarization, and yet these ancient values are still alive in many hearts!
Anne Applebaum was recommended to me by a friend, so I decided to check her out. Then when I saw her work history full of being at the Washington Times and the Atlantic I began to seriously suspect that she would not be able to do true journalism and analysis within such establishment environments, full of guardrails about what is and is not permitted to talk about. I unfortunately have not been disappointed. Anne, despite identifying herself as being center right politically, is really a George/Jeb Bush-Liz Cheney establishment type, indistinguishable from the average Dem. politician from 15-20 years ago. She winks and flirts with political correctness. Most seriously, she claims to be very concerned about growing Authoritarianism, but can find only a few 3rd world countries to rely on for evidence. While she likes to point out Poland and Hungary as transgressors, it seems that their biggest sin is defying the EU, and by extension globalism.
This is an interesting comment because your earlier comments seem very far right trolling. I will have to decide for myself thank you.
I am sure she as heard of the southern strategy
Why should we not be cynical about our public institutions? What have they done to give us confidence? As an oligarch (along with his well paid careerist sycophants) it is very easy to glide along and not worry about the little people suffering from a broken system.
Anne Applebottom knows all of the signs to look for to identify incipient fascism. Great guest.
Came across your interview with Russel Brand and feel I found a soul mate. Going to share you with everyone I know. You should interview Cynthia McKinney former Congresswoman from Georgia. She was the only person to stand in front of congress questioning the 9/11 narrative and rush to war. When voting machines were adapted by Georgia, she lost for the first time. Much love to you Marianne and all your viewers.
Authoritarians while can be on the left, is by far mostly on the right. We know this from research, (Altemyer 1996, 1983, 2005; Duckitt, 2020). No she was not ahead of the curve, prof Bob Altemyer wrote a book called the authoritarian specter, in the 1980s.
The young voting public should understand that significant change is needed.
To obtain this change they have to understand that a revolution will never happen.
The democratic voting process is the only way.
But, less than 50% of the eligible voters in the age bracket of 18 to 32 have cast their vote in the midterm elections of 2018. More than 40% of this age group has not voted in the 2020 presidential elections. That is somewhere between 3 to 4 million votes which are not brought out by this age group. Solving this problem is the only way the progressive wing of the Dems can focus on short AND long term issues that need to be addressed urgently so that the country can finally take on the challenges of this century.
love yahh
*_If you look at the history of the Bolshevik revolution, if you look at other radical movements in the last couple of hundred years, they almost always start with this sense of disgust or disdain or disappointment with existing institutions. When I began to see that in the US, this feeling, this disdain for the media, for the courts, for
Democracy and disdain for political opponents, when I heard, for example, the way that Trump began to speak about his opponents as enemies of the people or as the kinds of language that he used about congressmen and women of the opposite political party, when I heard that kind of talk, that was when I realized that American Democracy was in trouble because that is the kind of language that authoritarians have used all over the world. It's when they can push and promote this disappointment, this the sense that our system isn't working, that our opponents can be held in contempt and that the rules of democracy don't really apply because they don't really work. It's this very deep cynicism about politics that has led to authoritarianism in so many places and the pattern is amazingly similar in different places_* Anne Applebaum (edited for clarity)
Below is what Dr. Erich Fromm said, from his book, "The Sane Society" written in 1955.
*_Despots and ruling cliques can succeed in dominating and exploiting their fellow man, but they cannot prevent reactions to this inhuman treatment. Their subjects become frightened, suspicious, lonely and, if not due to external reasons, their systems collapse at some point because fears, suspicions and loneliness eventually incapacitate the majority to function effectively and intelligently. Whole nations, or social groups within them can be subjugated and exploited for a long time, but they react. They react with apathy or such impairment of intelligence, initiative and skills that they gradually fail to perform the functions which should serve their rulers. Or they react by the accumulation of such hate and destructiveness as to bring about an end to themselves, their rulers and their system. Again their reaction may create such independence and longing for freedom that a better society is built upon their creative impulses. Which reaction occurs, depends on many factors: on economic and political ones, and on the spiritual climate in which people live. But whatever the reactions are, the statement that man can live under almost any condition is only half true; it must be supplemented by the other statement, that if he lives under conditions which are contrary to his nature and to the basic requirements for human growth and sanity, he cannot help reacting; he must either deteriorate and perish, or bring about conditions which are more in accordance with his needs_*
For the love of God, when will we rise above this madness?! As I see it, its not so much the idea of Democracy that is troubling, it's those who bring Democracy to life that with either make it flourish or perish. The emotional and psychological well being of those in office MATTER a great deal in addition to the fact that they must know how government works and correct that which undermines it. But we have two political parties who have lost their way and the Republicans are the worst offender. I believe they have become a cult and Trump as their leader. This will not end well.
what about purim?
And to add, "they don't care if we vote or not', they have it worked out in the agenda regardless. This last election and then ukraine shows it
Yes, Reagan started it, but you could go back to Nixon as well. Newt Gingrich, and the politicization of the evangelicals also played a great part
Let’s not forget the libertarian billionaires funding Fox News, breitbart, newsmax Ect
This train is out of control and unstoppable. The psychopaths operating the levers see nothing but their insatiable lust for power. The rest are cheering for one side or other with fear induced by those serving power.
Fear
Where does a curious soul find those four questions?
We have to see current reality as it is{
There is no "democracy". The adversarial party-political system in the west is not really a democracy in the sense if the early Athenian model.
A working democracy depends on well educated1 and well informed citizenry! This is what the centralized schooling regime imposed on every new generation manages to prevent.
Consider this as the abstract of a thesis that runs to at least 2000 word
It's only 18%--not the majority by far.
Don't forget the 20% who were just one step away. We can not become complacent.
I wish the democrats would abide by these rules that Ann talks about.
Do you see that the democrats don’t follow these rules anymore?
And do you know the difference between democracy and a republic?
Our country has a republic not a democracy.
And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God.
Remember this???
Look it up Maryanne and Anne.
So, I guess that according to Anne that anyone who wants control over a countries immigration system, wants to reform government and make is accountable to the people ,and wants to stick up for their rights is now "far right".
Even though your comment is too simplistic, I would say yes you have drank the coolaid. It is not a single step, it is many small little drops of misinformation to lead people to the far right. What is interesting is that when I stick to policies with my far right friends, and yes I do have them, we agree most of the time.
Why is authoritarianism necessarily negative, dark? What about authoritarianism grounded in the common good?
Authoritarianism for the common good negates freedom, equality and diversity! It prescribes a certain way to live.
If authoritarianism is so great then why don't we celebrate Nazism or award the CCP for their efforts to promote and spread it? You think they don't believe they're doing it for the common good? All authoritarians claim it's for the common good.
Authoritarianism is basically saying _"I know what's best for you. You don't need to think for yourself or develop critical thinking skills. You don't need choice. In fact, I wont even allow you to think for yourself. And if you try to think for yourself or teach others how to think for themselves, you're going to be ball-gagged, ostracized, put away, or maybe we'll just make you disappear altogether."_ How do you like the sound of that?
@@joanhalgren3502 That depends on the definition of "freedom": freedom to screw people out of a just payment? freedom to corrupt the youth with toxic products? and so on. An example of what I mean: Facebook is horribly populated with negative information and advertising; we could make Facebook commonly owned by making it a public entity. Try to think through what really great things Facebook could become if we did that. We could vote on these changes, and so on.
@@kathryntate6809 Kate, I agree with you. And I am talking ethical 'freedom that does no harm'.
There always strong overlaps between conservativeism and fascism. We know this from research. Conservatives are more willing to impose their views.
As was the case in the USSR, with Pol Pot, with Chavez, with Mao, with Castro, with Ho Chi Min. All Conservative!
I particularly find token pandering to women and other races in appointments sophomoric and disingenuous, I e. Kamala harris, hilary clinton. There are much better women and colored that would make better leaders. People voting for hilary because they wanted a woman for that reason only, was sickening.
Again the interviewer does all the talking.
I wish the democrats would abide by these rules that Ann talks about.
Do you see that the democrats don’t follow these rules anymore?
And do you know the difference between democracy and a republic?
Our country has a republic not a democracy.
And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God.
Remember this???
Look it up Maryanne and Anne.