Quintinshill Railway Disaster 1915 | Carlisle Library's Local History Talks
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- 📽️📽️📽️ Carlisle Library's Local History Talks | Quintinshill Railway Disaster 1915
This week, we look back to the fateful day of May 22nd 1915 - Britain's worst railway disaster just over the border at Quintinshill, Gretna. Hosted by Stephen White.
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Comments and suggestions for future topics always greatly received. Drop Stephen and the Local History team an email at: carlisle.library@cumbria.gov.uk
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There are other UA-cam presentations of this wreck and this on adds much to my understanding of it and of it's consequences. Good work. The photo archive threatens to move me to tears.
I used to work for railroads, and have known men who have died in railway accidents.
The patterns of catastrophe are remarkably consistent in that they almost always involve the ability of humans to momentarily forget even the most important bits of information.
Humans are fallible. Many of the procedures for operating locomotives and trains take that into account. When I was a railroader we were required to have a consolidated code of operating rules with us whenever on the job. In order to take the first step up, from trainman or switch-man to conductor or yard foreman, a railroader must be able to write out the "book of rules" from memory.
The Quintinshill wreck and others like it contributed much to the words used in my copy of the "Consolidated Code of Operating Rules." Even at the time of the accident that fallibility was recognized, and rules were in place to account for that.
But in order to be effective, the rules must be observed.
They weren't, and immense grief was the result.
Rest in peace. So many lives and all the families & friends affected. Makes me feel very sad.
Thank you. A sad tale but sensitively presented.
Thank you, this was fascinating.
Super presentation - thank you :-)
A fascinating insight into the disaster though I will now be 'haunted' by the thought of the two unclaimed dead. How very strange, Thank you Stephen!
Very nice presentation with a wonderful railway model for easy understanding. Thank you!
So happy you enjoyed! Stay tuned - The Local History Team.
Yes the model makes it very clear
Interesting, and incredibly sad. My great-grandfather worked in Wales as a guard on the Corris Railway hauling slate, later immigrating to New York in 1883 where he started out as brakeman. His two older brothers also worked for railroads, one as a conductor out west -- the other (for whom I'm named) as a brakeman, and who died in 1909 in MN, when caught between the cars in a backing movement. According to witnesses at the station, he was connecting a stubborn link and pin coupler with a hammer when the locomotive backed up without signaling ...
A splendid talk. Thank you.
More local history videos please Mr White.
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Very interesting. When training staff on the railway we show a Horizon BBC programme called Rail Crash. 1972. Quintinshill is one reconstructed. A man cut off a man's leg with an ordinary joiner's saw. This man still alive in 1972 who did it appears on the video by the then still in place signalbox to explain how he did it. Thanks for this. Horizon Rail Crash available on you tube for info.
Thank you for this talk and for uploading. I thought I knew about Quintinshill but learnt little facts that made all the difference to my understanding. Excellent video!
Really enjoyed this Stephen, thank you, what a sad tale. We used to work together many years ago in Carlisle library
Glad you enjoyed it. See you next week for our Nov 11th 'Cumbria Remembers' epsiode.
Thank you so much, a very detailed report, very much appreciated.
Matt from Australia
The one who wrote the letter sounds genuinely heart broken. Both of them only serving two years is ridiculous, but living with this on their consciousness’ must have been the real punishment. Sometimes the punishment is built into crime. On their way to Gallipoli did not augur well for theses troops to start.
That they were on their way there makes me sad as well. I love the, “Carry On,” photo and the one taken on the sneak. TY.
Is it possible that whoever was responsible for the two children (parent of guardian) also lost their life/lives on the train?
Wow, yea. You’re right, good point.
Fascinating account. Just wish to point out though that it's not "The down line to London and the up line to Glasgow". The line which goes to London is always the up line regardless of geography or mapping.
¹
I just watched your presentation and must admit that a tear came to my eye.
Questions....
In the last minute or so of this video I ask,
How can 2 children who were killed in this disaster remain unidentified (un-named and unclaimed) ? I know that records have advanced somewhat but even in 1915 the records were quite accurate.
Same goes for my second question....
The 2 Mc Donald brothers...
One of them didn't catch the fatal train for reasons....Surely his military pay book might offer a clue about his survival. The Army is usually very accurate with its records about its troops AND its pay. Even when a British Army soldier is a POW he is still on pay and at his rank.
10 out of 10.
Wonder what the man Henry called away on a training exercise went on to achieve? Are there any records please?
Whenever I watch a video about this I think of how the Royal Newfoundland Reg't took the Royal Scots place in 88th BDE, 29 DIV. In a true "Butterfly Effect" at the Somme on July 1st, 801 RNFLDR went over the top, with 68 answering roll call the next AM. By 1949, Newfoundland was confederated with Canada.
So sad
Err... Mr. CL & AS; it's only a "Union Jack" on a naval vessel. They were buried under "Union FLAGS".
R.I.P no.907
Glorious Britannia at its best! Fred Carno's army. I do not believe Great Britain has learnt anything since!
The two signalmen that caused this disaster by being incredibly selfish and careless didn’t looked like they gave a toss! They served ridiculously short prison sentences and were unbelievably rehired by the railway upon release! Words fail me! That would never happen today! They’d have got ten years minimum!
I have the book "The Quintinshill conspiracy" by Jack Richards and Adrian Searle. I would recommend it for an in depth look at the tragedy. There is much speculation to the effect that technically the 2 men were to blame, and definitely were at fault, but that the railroad and also the gov't came out looking really bad for a number of reasons. So the two signal men became the fall guys and were "thrown under the bus" to take all the blame so there would be no further publicity to make the higher ups look bad, and provide distraction during the time of war. That would explain the very short sentences served and rehiring later on. There is not really much solid documentation left, and many unanswered questions after the fact. They tried to hush it up and just tried to get people to forget about the whole mess. Nothing ever really changes does it !!!
@@johnstudd4245 Sadly, I think you’re right on that one! It’s high time some serious arse-kicking was done when careless gits get it wrong!
Meakin did not return to the railway after the collision. Tinsley became a lampman at Carlisle. Tinsley was initially sent to three years in prison, and Meakin eighteen months, but both were released after a year.
@@andrewtaylor5984 For what they did I’m surprised they weren’t caged for life!
@@nigelkthomas9501 The problem is not as easy as you suggest. The two signalmen were charged with negligence. Negligence is not a criminal offence, in this country at least. The legal definition of negligence is "failure to do something which you should have done." They failed to place collars on the relevant levers; they failed to tell the Kirkpatrick signalman that there was a train on the up main line, and they failed to check that the up line was clear for a quarter of a mile beyond the home signal. They were in breach of the Caledonian Railway's rules, and the railway company could have dismissed them on the spot, but could not have jailed them. There was no Employment Protection Act in those days. One must remember that Britain was at war in 1915, and large numbers of railmen would have been conscripted, so there were probably staff shortages. They could have been conscripted, and suffered the same fate as the 214 troops they killed. They were both in their early thirties, so were probably still able to go to the trenches. Tinsley had to live with his error for over 50 years; he died in 1967. Meakin died much younger, but I am not sure when.