Great!! He leaves out the fact those prophets were serving a false God, BAAL. Therefore were not actual prophets of the God And why they weren’t recorded. Therefore every real prophet was actually recorded in the Bible. But you people just believe everything you hear with soft soothing voice. Ridiculous!
How does this guy know the Bible wasn’t meant to contain all prophecies?! Who told him that?! God? No. God doesn’t speak to us anymore. What is in the Bible was meant to be there for man, so anything else that you think God forgot or may left out, you, or this guy, shouldn’t be concerned with it. But I’m pretty sure God gave us everything he wants us know to for now. It’s sounds to me like this guy wants add things to the Bible which is clearly against Gods word.
As a Christian of more than 20 years, I am sad to say that I have never seen a genuine miracle as a result of the Charismatic gifts. I have been in countless healing meetings (Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard Browne, David Hogan, Mike Francen, and a slew of other healing evangelists) and have never seen a healing. I have heard many prophetic words, but never have I heard one that has been forthtelling to any degree of accuracy. Many times I have been the recipient of encouraging 'prophetic' words, but they are usually fairly vague and would apply to anyone needing a 'word'. Have I seen something that I could term 'miraculous'? Absolutely, yes! But it was an answer to prayer, as opposed to a gift. Gifts, no. A powerful God, yes.
I've never been the recipient of any of that either, however the scriptures stand true, and it's difficult to say that our personal experiences can see everything the Spirit does through people as gifts. (I have the gift of discerning of spirits, in it's infant stages. Never seen prophecy before but I've heard quite a few stories, and one or two relating to interpretation of tongues). Lots of con artists exist in the US especially to get money off of faking healing stuff (one of my friends was a victim of it and caught wind of it being a fake). That's awesome though that you've experienced supernatural things from God!
Actually in Africa, in missionary grounds, i have seen many miracles, unfortunally without any records. Usually we saw them not in great church events, but at evangelism and in street preaching. I have saw crippled people walking again, blind people seing, one time i saw a deaf person listening again. I'm not saying that God only does it in Africa, but it is a interessting data for us to think about, and question why many miracles been happening in Africa and Asia on the missionary fields, and not so many in Europe (where i live today) and America.
If only we could preach the Gospel with many infallible proofs like in the days of old. This is great instruction; I wish more would listen to the logical deductions made in this video.
Thanks, Dr. Keener! Please consider also addressing the baptism in the Holy Spirit, as mentioned by John the Baptist in each of the four gospels, and as permeates Acts. thank you
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is anointing for God's works. In ACTS Jesus Christ told them to wait for the Holy Spirit to come upon them. We all have a purpose on this EARTH which God anoints us for in every sector.
I wrote my doctoral dissertation on Pentecostalism. I did not conclude that God never communicates to someone today, but I did conclude that Paul tells us that the church will not rely on the revelatory gifts for its teaching. In 1 Corinthians 13:9-10, he breaks the news to them that the revelatory gifts will be rendered inoperative. To make it easier for them to accept, he explains that it is like growing up. When the church attains full knowledge, it will be thinking as an adult human thinks. These partial bits of knowledge that they are getting through prophesying are to be replaced with comprehensive teaching. It is like looking into a metal mirror as compared to looking face to face. When teaching the words of Christ and the apostles replaces' doctrine the practice of the word of knowledge, a greater understanding of Christ will be theirs. Then full knowledge will be the possession of the church. He concludes by telling them what will abide: faith, hope, love. These will abide in the church-but, as the context indicates, without the revelatory gifts.
How do we know that this will come in this age and not the next? I show in my dissertation that Ephesians 4:1-16 is a direct parallel to 1 Corinthians 12-13. They both speak of spiritual gifts, unity of the body, equipped saints to do the work, full knowledge (ἐπίγνωσις) (Eph. 4:13), “fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13), maturity, children, “speaking the truth in love” (Eph. 4:15; NASB), growing up, (Eph. 4:15), and “building of itself in love” ((Eph. 4:16; NASB). And yet Ephesians 4:13-14 show plainly that Paul is not speaking of a future life, but rather, this present life, at a time that was a little after the time of Paul’s epistle. You may want to read my paper which is listed at independent.academia.edu/GaryMayer
There's a great book called "Are Miraculous Gifts for Today? - Four Views" put out by Zondervan in their Counterpoint series. All the different perspectives on the gifts are presented by different authors, and then each author writes a brief response. Robert L. Saucy has a chapter called "An Open But Cautious View" which i find myself agreeing with the most.
@Jimmy F I haven’t read that particular book but one of the other authors Sam Storms labels himself as a “practicing continuationist”. And says in his book that many great evangelical Christians embrace the noun continuationist, yet are admittedly “functional cessationists”. Those who neither pursue,pray nor practice spiritual gifts they believe in as continuationist. Does the view “open but cautious” fall under the functional cessationist label?
Honest?! he didn’t even know they were false prophets being referred to in 1st kings. Either this guy is a moron or is deceitful. Do you people just believe everything you hear because you agree with it? Or do you research it yourself?
Sometimes, the book of Acts refers to receiving the ability of miraculous gifts as receiving the Spirit through the laying on of hands. It seems like the apostle laid their hands on people and imparted miraculous abilities. Post-apostolic period, you don’t see that happening; just occasional stories of miraculous signs occurring around to those considered saints and around the relics of saints. There have only been small sects of charismatic groups like the Montanists and the modern Pentecostal movement. Pentecostalism has not been the mainstream ideology through church history.
I have heard some folk say that speaking in tongues has to be a known language and not(gobbledygook) as they call it.And they will use Acts chapter two as Proof of this.And while certainly all messages in tongues must be judged, because satan can counterfeit the gift of tongues.Nevertheless the Bible speaks of the tongues of men(as we see in Acts chapter two),the tongues of angels(the tongues of men are a real gift,so why would the tongues of angels not be a real gift?).But the Bible also speaks of the unknown tongue(that no one understands but God alone-1 Cor 14:2).So could what some refer to as gobbledygook actually be an unknown language that no one understands but God alone?🤔
Natural gifts? Romans 12: 6-8 are not natural gifts but grace gifts. You probably know that the word for gifts in Romans 12: 6 is the Greek term charismata or gifts animated by the grace of God working in them. Granted that the listing in I Cor. 12 mention the more supernatural gifts, which have been troublesome to the mainline denominations in the past. I have been a member of Charismatic and classic Pentecostal churches and have seen abuses, and counterfeits, nevertheless I have witnessed the authentic and with them great blessing and edification came to many. It is difficult in large churches to monitor the manifestation of the gifts mentioned in I Cor. 12: 7-10 in the Sunday morning services. Small groups are better but I have been in some of them that turned into chaos. It takes an elder that can keep these meetings in order so they don't become completely out of control. Further, there is the dangers of carnal believers and babes becoming unbalanced and not being grounded in the Bible's teachings. People forget that the Corinthians had many of the supernatural gifts in operation, yet Paul said that he couldn't speak to them as spiritual but carnal believers. So, if someone can be used in amazing supernatural gifts of the Spirit it doesn't follow that they are necessarily spiritual. That is a mistake that people in the Charismatic churches sometimes make.
The bible doesn't give us the gifts. They are gifts of the holy spirit. Jesus commanded us to go & heal the sick, cast out demons, baptize in water & baptize in the holy spirit. He chose 70 random men & they healed the sick & cast out demons. So what is the problem today? Lack of faith & lack of equipping (discipling) My wife & I sat in churches for more than 25 years & didn't see what Jesus meant in John @, "You will do greater works than I have done". Then we were discipled. We have seen more than 400 people healed over the last 5 years, have baptized more than 200 people & cast out dozens of demons . All praise to Jesus Christ, our Lord!
Thank you for speaking to the Western world that needs to wake up and repent....churchanity never saved a man, indeed it killed it and buried it in sin and dead works.
It's called progressive revelation and it was given to the Apostle Paul. If you can't see the difference between what took place early (Acts 19:12) and what took place later (Phil 2:25-27), (2 Timothy 4:20) may the Lord help you.
4 passages were mishandled in this video. You cannot use Ephesians 4:11 as a case for continuationism. The word "Apostle" in Ephesians 4:11 must be referring to the Apostolic office because every other use of the word "Apostle" in Ephesians is clearly referring to the Apostolic office. Furthermore, the word "Apostle" is listed first in Ephesians 4:11. If "Apostle" were referring to the missionary office of "apostle," then it would not come first. Therefore, the "Apostles" in Ephesians 4:11 must be referring to the Apostolic office. I don't think charismatics want to argue that this gift is still being given. Ironically, all orthodox charismatics are partial cessationists because they acknowledge the gift of Apostle of Jesus Christ is no longer given. No one who actually does the Bible justice can honestly say that Acts 2 is saying Joel 2 is fulfilled. In Joel 2, God says He will pour His Spirit out on ALL mankind. That hasn't happened yet. God says He will display wonders in the sky and on the earth with blood, fire, and smoke. I don't see how you can say that was fulfilled in the first century A.D. God also says the sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood. Again, that hasn't happened yet. Not to mention Joel 3 says that the events of Joel 2 will be immediately followed by Jesus judging the nations. Therefore, Joel 2 and 3 were not fulfilled, and Peter never said they were. Instead, Peter is saying, "We are entering into the last days when God will pour out His Spirit on all mankind, so why are you surprised that we have the Spirit and are speaking in tongues right now?" James 5 is one of the most poorly translated passages in the Bible. The word "sick" should not be translated as "sick." The word should be translated in this context as "weak," not "sick." James 5:14 is telling sinning and weary believers to talk to the elders, who will help them. Why would James 5:16 tell believers to confess their sins to one another if the problem was physical, not spiritual? Lastly, 1 Corinthians 13 does teach cessationism. This misinformed teacher needs to study Greek. The word translated as "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13 is the word "teleion." It is an adjective that means "complete, perfect, or mature." It is also use substantivally (as a noun) in 1 Corinthians 13, and it is in the neuter singular. Therefore, it cannot be referring to Jesus, who is masculine! Also, "perfect" is a bad translation because it does not adequately contrast "the partial." Paul calls prophecy, knowledge, and tongues as "the partial" and says they will cease when the "teleion" comes. The opposite of "partial" is "complete," not "perfect." Teleion can and often does mean "complete." The "complete" is referring to the complete revelation of God in the completion of the canon of Scripture. This makes perfect sense because prophecy, knowledge, and tongues are divine revelation gifts. Paul is saying when the full divine revelation of Scripture is complete, the partial revelation gifts of prophecy, knowledge, and tongues will cease to be given. This can be seen by his analogy of the mirror. Paul says in the 50's A.D. that they see in a mirror dimly. He said this because they did not have the complete revelation of Scripture. However, when the Scriptures are complete, they will see clearly. What will they see clearly? Remember, Paul said they see in a MIRROR dimly. Who do you look at in a mirror? Yourself! Don't believe me? Look at James 1, which is the only other passage where the word used for mirror (esoptron) in 1 Corinthians 13 appears. In James 1, the word "esoptron" is used to describe the Bible. If you read the Bible and don't do what it says, then you are like a man who looks in a mirror and forgets what he looks like. On the contrary, if you read Scripture and do what it says, then you are a man who looks in a mirror and sees himself clearly face to face. Paul is saying when Scripture is completed, you will be able to know YOURSELF as God knows you. Charismatics always interpret "know fully as I am fully known" as referring to God. Are you kidding? We will never know God like He knows us! He is omniscient! God is inscrutable, and we will infinitely chase the knowledge of Him for all eternity. To conclude, remember how we established that the gift of Apostle is no longer given in Ephesians 4:11? Well, then the gift of prophecy must not be given either because Ephesians 2:20 says the Church is built on the Cornerstone (Jesus) and the foundation (Apostles and prophets). If Apostles are gone, then logic demands that prophets are too. If prophecy is gone, then knowledge and tongues must be too in light of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12, which says they will cease at the same time. It's a slippery slope charismatics. Take the plunge!
Craig Keener is one of the best scholars of NT. You are not in position to talk about greek. Secondly your arguments are like rickety barge. 1 Cor 13 is not about Bible - do you see face to face? Do you have perfect knowledge? I mean this argument is just ridiculous. And cascade argument also. Not all apostles did write the Bible and not only apostles did write the Bible. Also continualism is default doctrine. There is not some case for it. It is as it is. You are making new doctrine. May I ask have you been filled with Holy spirit?
Craig Keener is a fallen human like everyone else, so he is not infallible. Why am I not in a position to talk about Greek? Is my knowledge of the language inferior because I haven't understood it as long as Keener? That's like saying I can't correct someone who says 2+2=5 just because he was studying math longer than me. You're either right or wrong when it comes to language, just like math. Yes, I do see myself face to face when I read Scripture and understand it (cross reference with James 1:23-25). I do have perfect knowledge of everything God wants me to know (but that doesn't mean I have internalized all of it) because I have the all-sufficient canon of Scripture (cross reference with 2 Timothy 3:16-17). My question for you is how you can read 1 Corinthians 13:12 where Paul talks about a mirror, and then think seeing "face to face" is somehow referring to Jesus. That is illogical. I also question how you think Jesus can be the "teleion" when "teleion" is neuter. Do you think Jesus is sans-gender? Also, 1 Corinthians 13 has been used to prove cessationism for the history of the church. Only recently did anyone think 1 Corinthians 13 could be used to support continuationism. How do you not understand the cascade argument? Are you saying there are Apostles today? Are you a New Apostolic Reformation heretic? If so, I will immediately demand that you repent of your heresy. Also, I literally chuckled when you said I am making new doctrine. EVERY SINGLE NON-HERETICAL CHRISTIAN FOR THE PAST 1,900 YEARS WAS A CESSATIONIST. That includes John Chrysostom, Augustine of Hippo, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Matthew Henry, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, Abraham Kuyper, B. B. Warfield, and A. W. Pink, just to name a few. You can't use history against me. There was one documented exception to cessationism, and that was the Montanists in the 2nd century. They said divine revelation was still given, the Holy Spirit talked to them, the title of prophet was passed down by succession, spoke in ecstatic gibberish, let women be leaders in churches, and emphasized emotions over teaching. Does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, that's exactly what the charismatic movement is today. The Montanists were denounced as heretics by the early church. If only the modern church could grow a spine and stamp out the charismatic movement for the better.
Josh Peterson You should read his book about Miracles where he listed many many many historical evidence also. Even Augustine changed his mind. You say that you have perfect knowledge... you must be God then. I cannot argue because you are twisting meaning of words and making weird arguments. I am corruptable man still. And I will always be until Jesus will come back and perfect will come with Him. If you think that you have perfect knowledge then tell me how many stars are in the universe. You have listed many ex-catholics. I do not expect gifts to be there. Reformers brought a lot of from mother church. But there were even manifestations among people who held to reformed theology. John Knox for example is known for his fullfiled prophecies also Spurgeon prayed for healings and it happened. Salvation army, anabaptists that were persecuted by catholics and reformers. You reallly should read history and not books from MacArthur. Irreneaus argumented against gnostics that christianity is followed by miracles. But this is history. Again. I see doctrine out of experience and history and not scripture. Every cessationist is like that. The fact satan hates gifts and counterfeits does not mean that they are not for today. There is not conflict with gifts and adding to the Bible. There are prophets in Revelation. Cannon is closed because it is completed not because apostles are or are not for today. Luke, Jude, Mark were not apostles. And not all apostles left us scripture. And Paul is teaching a lot of about seeking gifts because it is powerful weapon against satan if applied correctly. Thats why satan hates it. He doesnt hate cessationistic churches because they are not kicking on the gates of hell. We should seek God more and use His power for the purposes of the kingdom. I want more gifts so I can use them for the kingdom. I dont need more Bible. We should get back to acts like christianity.
+marklar2012 I barely have enough time to read good theologians, let alone wrong theologians. With regard to Augustine, he was an avowed cessationist, especially with regard to tongues. He did claim to have seen miracles in Carthage, but there are a few things to consider. First, there was no documented proof of these miracles. Benny Hinn claims to do miracles today, but that doesn't mean they're true, right? Just because someone said something doesn't mean he's right. Furthermore, I do not believe that miracles never happen. What I DO believe is that the gift of miracles is no longer given. Augustine only said he saw some miracles in Carthage. He didn't say he saw anyone doing it. I've seen and heard of people who went from stage 4 cancer to healed, and I would call that a miracle. Does that make me a continuationist? Absolutely not. God can intervene and heal whomever He wants. However, that doesn't mean He gives someone the ability to heal at will with 100% effectiveness. There is not one documented, medically verifiable case that proves the gift of healing is still around or ever exercised in the past 1,900 years. Lastly, with regard to Augustine, do not forget that he was living in an age where the Church was very mystical. He attributed some of these miracles as occurring due to the presence of relics, the use of religious symbols, and praying to saints. Should we implement those today? Augustine is not on the side of continuationism. I never said I had perfect knowledge. I said I have perfect knowledge of everything God wants me to know (but that doesn't mean I have internalized all of it). If you truly believe that Scripture contains everything God wants us to know, then you have perfect knowledge too. But, sadly, you're a continuationist, so you don't believe the canon is complete, regardless of what you say with your lips. Your beliefs betray your open-canon position. We can (emphasis on CAN) know everything God wants us to know if we study the Scriptures. The Scriptures do not say how many stars there are in the universe, so I don't know. Stop making straw man arguments. Hahaha, do not use Spurgeon to support you. Spurgeon said he hopes those in his day who claim to hear from God are crazy. He also said he would laugh at them and tell them to take their insanity elsewhere. He also said the miraculous gifts, tongues, and the gift of prophecy are not given because their duty is fulfilled. Do not take his bewilderment with God's providence of how an event played out in an eerily similar manner to a prediction as a case for saying Spurgeon is on your side. Like I said, he would have called you a lunatic and sent you away from him. I will not disagree that Tertullian and Irenaeus were sucked into verifying the Montanists, much like how people like John Piper and J. I. Packer are sympathetic to the charismatic movement but are not involved in it. The fact that some good theologians were not totally opposed to the Montanists does not change the fact that Montanists were declared heretics by the early church because of their practice of claiming divine revelation from the Holy Spirit, allowing women to teach men, speaking gibberish, and emphasizing emotions. I would not condemn John Piper, but I will say he was misguided. The same thing applies to Tertullian and Irenaeus. They were misguided for not condemning the Montanists. You are arrogant for thinking your churches are somehow more effective than cessationist churches. You wouldn't be here without cessationists, because it was cessationists who cleaned up the Church. Now you charismatics are throwing it into confusion. Here's how: Tongues? You say it's a gibberish prayer language, when the Bible says it was a known language spoken by someone who had never studied it. Prophecy? You say it's fallible, but the Bible says it has to be 100% accurate or else you die. Miracles and healing? You say they occur, but you have no proof. In the Bible, you could not deny that miracles were happening because they were verifiable and obvious. Knowledge and wisdom? You say you can still hear from God, but the Bible says you can't add on to Scripture. I know you'll say today's revelation doesn't count as biblical revelation, but you're making an unbiblical distinction. If God is speaking, then God is speaking. Colton Burpo says the Holy Spirit is blue. Did you know the Holy Spirit is blue? I didn't either. Should we insert the book "1st Burpo" after Revelation? Nope. You claim to be on your high horse by being a true, New Testament believer. All you are is a con-artist and a distorter of the true biblical charismatic gifts. Repent of your false beliefs. Also, you never answered my question: Are there Apostles of Jesus Christ today?
What is apostle? There are at least 7 apostle types in Bible. carm.org/dictionary-apostle Which one? You ask because you want to label me as heretic. There are tongue speakers in history. Tongues are not dictionary downloaded into our brains. It is manifestation of the Spirit and His power that manifests in reality as earthly languages but also unknown languages. Read 1 Cor. 14. It is prophecy when it is interpreted. Corinthians were not speaking spanish and interpretation is not using dictionary or something like that. It is all over the Bible. Even in Romans 8:26. God is speaking through his creation to all people (Romans 1), all people have law written in their hearts (Romans 2), God is calling is people (John 6:44), He is leading them by his voice (John 10), Holy spirit is leading us (Romans 8:14) and many other passages that like Matthew 10:27 where Jesus says that words will be given to us. If you dont hear God's voice - who called you? If you have ministry - who ordained you? Have you called yourself, have you builded yourself? Who sended you? Are you ordained by man or by God? "For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends." 2 Cor 10:18. Holy spirit Miracles from Keener contains many evidences. Again: You are making arguments from experience. I would say that most of the people in churchianity are not even filled with Holy spirit because people who ordained themselves and studied scripture using their adamic brain, said that if you believe that means that you have Holy spirit.. Yet Paul asks question in Acts 19 about baptism in the Holy spirit. It is something real and if you havent expereinced some supernatural filling how does the Holy spirit testifies that you are child of God? And others are seduced by cessationism. Reformes were ex-catholics who were influenced by dead religion. Look on salvation army, look on moravians, look on early anabaptists, look on Wesley, Finney and others. I really know little names but I have huge book filled just with evidence. But you dont want that. You want your MacArthur's kool-aid. Read Bible and seek God. Do not follow men and their traditions. Most of them are lost. I was cessationist. But I have changed mind because of plain understanding of scripture.
Many of us distrust the “abuse” of supernatural gifts. I agree and I also worry about the abuse of biblical teachings that can be used to manipulate others. Ravi is a recent example.
@@thechristiancowboy6967 agreed, no prophets today and no apostles. To be an apostle you have to have been an eye witness, or been appointed one like Paul who had an encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus.
You need to first learn what is the office of a Prophet. I think your mixed up a bit. The prophets Paul is talking about is "Preachers" not the office of the Prophet.
you know what is funny? the question could be answered in one word"yes"...instead we try to look really smart....only a theologian can make the simplest statements of the Book this complicated...feel sorry for him....
The best gifts; faith, hope and love are for today. If you are a Christian you have all three. Everything else are no longer given. Teaching...gone, helps...gone, giving...gone etc. People who are great teachers, givers, helpers etc. are that way because of personality and personal development. Not because they got zapped at salvation. The reason God gave those gifts during that first century was to get the church off the ground.
Because the Holy Spirit is still in born again believers today, and because the Spirit is the source of the spiritual gifts, He can and does still manifests them as He wills to.
Hey Craig. Those were the prophets of Baal in those caves you’re referring to in 1st kings. So are you sure you even know what you’re talking about ? Elijah told them to call upon their lord and Elijah to call up on his lord for fire to the bull and the first one to do so was the real god. So those were not even real prophets you’re referring to. Or should I say Gods prophets
capnumericka, I am sorry to say this, but it is not Craig who doesn't know what he is talking about, " you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about." Did you read what 1 Kings 18:3-4 says on the matter that Craig addressed? This is what 1 Kings 18:3-4 says: Ahab summoned Obadiah, who was in charge of the household. (Now Obadiah [a]feared the LORD greatly; 4 for when Jezebel killed the prophets of the LORD, Obadiah took a hundred prophets and hid them by fifties in a cave, and provided them with bread and water.) Please explain to me why Obadiah would hide prophets of Baal in the cave, if he feared the LORD greatly. I mean, whose prophets were hidden in the cave? Was it the prophets of Baal or the prophets of the Lord that were hidden there? Let’s be honest here. Shouldn’t you have checked your facts before speaking out? You are NOT more informed about this issue than he is? After all, who is the scholar? Is it you or is it him?
God too away the gift of tongues in 70 a.d. and the gift of Prophecy in 90 a.d. because people were abusing these gifts..pretending to have the gifts of tongues or pretending to have the gift of prophecy. He promised to give them back during the 1000 years God will reign on Earth.
Yes before 70 AD God took away the gifts, Paul's gift of healing was gone by 64 AD when he wrote Timothy and stated he was unable to heal Timothy of his stomach troubles and told him to try drinking some wine for your stomach pain 1 Tim 5:23 [because he caught a parasite from drinking the middle eastern water, quite common] Pentecostals don't know how to rightly divide, so they believe they have the former gifts bestowed on the 1st century church which are completely gone by the writings of 1 Tim 5:23. Since Israel was being judged in the Roman Jewish war lasting 7 years and the majority of them fell away and would be scattered once again, there would be no point in the sign gifts to cause they to believe like tongues in Acts 2 and 10. Even though no Pentecostal can pick up snakes Mark 16 yet Paul once did and was bitten by poisonous one and it did not hurt him fulfilling the scriptures Acts 28. Pentecostals can't drink poison either, nor can they heal people with the palm of their hands called laying on of hands, the Pentecostal preachers however are selling wolf tickets to because it's good money in their pockets.
Dr. Craig Keener is a great teacher
Great!! He leaves out the fact those prophets were serving a false God, BAAL. Therefore were not actual prophets of the God And why they weren’t recorded. Therefore every real prophet was actually recorded in the Bible. But you people just believe everything you hear with soft soothing voice. Ridiculous!
How does this guy know the Bible wasn’t meant to contain all prophecies?! Who told him that?! God? No. God doesn’t speak to us anymore. What is in the Bible was meant to be there for man, so anything else that you think God forgot or may left out, you, or this guy, shouldn’t be concerned with it. But I’m pretty sure God gave us everything he wants us know to for now. It’s sounds to me like this guy wants add things to the Bible which is clearly against Gods word.
God bless Craig Keener.
Yes & Amen in Jesus Christ!
Thank you for the brilliant exposition Craig and for getting it out there!
Thank you! ❤
I of my favourite wise voices in the church today
As a Christian of more than 20 years, I am sad to say that I have never seen a genuine miracle as a result of the Charismatic gifts. I have been in countless healing meetings (Benny Hinn, Rodney Howard Browne, David Hogan, Mike Francen, and a slew of other healing evangelists) and have never seen a healing. I have heard many prophetic words, but never have I heard one that has been forthtelling to any degree of accuracy. Many times I have been the recipient of encouraging 'prophetic' words, but they are usually fairly vague and would apply to anyone needing a 'word'.
Have I seen something that I could term 'miraculous'? Absolutely, yes! But it was an answer to prayer, as opposed to a gift.
Gifts, no. A powerful God, yes.
I should say I have been in Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland meetings too...
I've never been the recipient of any of that either, however the scriptures stand true, and it's difficult to say that our personal experiences can see everything the Spirit does through people as gifts. (I have the gift of discerning of spirits, in it's infant stages. Never seen prophecy before but I've heard quite a few stories, and one or two relating to interpretation of tongues). Lots of con artists exist in the US especially to get money off of faking healing stuff (one of my friends was a victim of it and caught wind of it being a fake). That's awesome though that you've experienced supernatural things from God!
Actually in Africa, in missionary grounds, i have seen many miracles, unfortunally without any records. Usually we saw them not in great church events, but at evangelism and in street preaching. I have saw crippled people walking again, blind people seing, one time i saw a deaf person listening again. I'm not saying that God only does it in Africa, but it is a interessting data for us to think about, and question why many miracles been happening in Africa and Asia on the missionary fields, and not so many in Europe (where i live today) and America.
@@elienaisilva7945 conclusion: we need more writers to keep record of these things lol
I am a miracle, and have been healed! It still happens today. To God be the Glory ✝️
Wonderful! It answers most questions as far as discourse on charismata is concerned. Thank you great mentor.
If only we could preach the Gospel with many infallible proofs like in the days of old. This is great instruction; I wish more would listen to the logical deductions made in this video.
Thanks, Dr. Keener! Please consider also addressing the baptism in the Holy Spirit, as mentioned by John the Baptist in each of the four gospels, and as permeates Acts. thank you
Baptism in the Holy Spirit is anointing for God's works. In ACTS Jesus Christ told them to wait for the Holy Spirit to come upon them. We all have a purpose on this EARTH which God anoints us for in every sector.
Thank you Dr. Keener. God raised you for such a time as this.
I wrote my doctoral dissertation on Pentecostalism. I did not conclude that God never communicates to someone today, but I did conclude that Paul tells us that the church will not rely on the revelatory gifts for its teaching.
In 1 Corinthians 13:9-10, he breaks the news to them that the revelatory gifts will be rendered inoperative. To make it easier for them to accept, he explains that it is like growing up. When the church attains full knowledge, it will be thinking as an adult human thinks. These partial bits of knowledge that they are getting through prophesying are to be replaced with comprehensive teaching. It is like looking into a metal mirror as compared to looking face to face. When teaching the words of Christ and the apostles replaces' doctrine the practice of the word of knowledge, a greater understanding of Christ will be theirs. Then full knowledge will be the possession of the church. He concludes by telling them what will abide: faith, hope, love. These will abide in the church-but, as the context indicates, without the revelatory gifts.
How do we know that this will come in this age and not the next? I show in my dissertation that Ephesians 4:1-16 is a direct parallel to 1 Corinthians 12-13. They both speak of spiritual gifts, unity of the body, equipped saints to do the work, full knowledge (ἐπίγνωσις) (Eph. 4:13), “fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13), maturity, children, “speaking the truth in love” (Eph. 4:15; NASB), growing up, (Eph. 4:15), and “building of itself in love” ((Eph. 4:16; NASB). And yet Ephesians 4:13-14 show plainly that Paul is not speaking of a future life, but rather, this present life, at a time that was a little after the time of Paul’s epistle. You may want to read my paper which is listed at independent.academia.edu/GaryMayer
I'm trying to learn. What prophecy has been revealed in the last 25 years?
Amen! Very good summary of this truth!
Excellent message
There's a great book called "Are Miraculous Gifts for Today? - Four Views" put out by Zondervan in their Counterpoint series. All the different perspectives on the gifts are presented by different authors, and then each author writes a brief response. Robert L. Saucy has a chapter called "An Open But Cautious View" which i find myself agreeing with the most.
@Jimmy F
I haven’t read that particular book but one of the other authors Sam Storms labels himself as a “practicing continuationist”. And says in his book that many great evangelical Christians embrace the noun continuationist, yet are admittedly “functional cessationists”. Those who neither pursue,pray nor practice spiritual gifts they believe in as continuationist.
Does the view “open but cautious” fall under the functional cessationist label?
Great Teaching !!!
Thank you Dr. Keener! 100%! Finally I found a theologian who is honest and biblical in this topic.
Honest?! he didn’t even know they were false prophets being referred to in 1st kings. Either this guy is a moron or is deceitful. Do you people just believe everything you hear because you agree with it? Or do you research it yourself?
That was straight 🔥
You're straight 🔥
@@SuperGinny11 I'm the black Craig Keener!
@@watchman35 I know that's right! 😂😂
Sometimes, the book of Acts refers to receiving the ability of miraculous gifts as receiving the Spirit through the laying on of hands. It seems like the apostle laid their hands on people and imparted miraculous abilities. Post-apostolic period, you don’t see that happening; just occasional stories of miraculous signs occurring around to those considered saints and around the relics of saints. There have only been small sects of charismatic groups like the Montanists and the modern Pentecostal movement. Pentecostalism has not been the mainstream ideology through church history.
Absolutely stunning
I have heard some folk say that speaking in tongues has to be a known language and not(gobbledygook) as they call it.And they will use Acts chapter two as Proof of this.And while certainly all messages in tongues must be judged, because satan can counterfeit the gift of tongues.Nevertheless the Bible speaks of the tongues of men(as we see in Acts chapter two),the tongues of angels(the tongues of men are a real gift,so why would the tongues of angels not be a real gift?).But the Bible also speaks of the unknown tongue(that no one understands but God alone-1 Cor 14:2).So could what some refer to as gobbledygook actually be an unknown language that no one understands but God alone?🤔
Natural gifts? Romans 12: 6-8 are not natural gifts but grace gifts. You probably know that the word for gifts in Romans 12: 6 is the Greek term charismata or gifts animated by the grace of God working in them. Granted that the listing in I Cor. 12 mention the more supernatural gifts, which have been troublesome to the mainline denominations in the past. I have been a member of Charismatic and classic Pentecostal churches and have seen abuses, and counterfeits, nevertheless I have witnessed the authentic and with them great blessing and edification came to many. It is difficult in large churches to monitor the manifestation of the gifts mentioned in I Cor. 12: 7-10 in the Sunday morning services. Small groups are better but I have been in some of them that turned into chaos. It takes an elder that can keep these meetings in order so they don't become completely out of control. Further, there is the dangers of carnal believers and babes becoming unbalanced and not being grounded in the Bible's teachings. People forget that the Corinthians had many of the supernatural gifts in operation, yet Paul said that he couldn't speak to them as spiritual but carnal believers. So, if someone can be used in amazing supernatural gifts of the Spirit it doesn't follow that they are necessarily spiritual. That is a mistake that people in the Charismatic churches sometimes make.
The bible doesn't give us the gifts. They are gifts of the holy spirit. Jesus commanded us to go & heal the sick, cast out demons, baptize in water & baptize in the holy spirit. He chose 70 random men & they healed the sick & cast out demons. So what is the problem today? Lack of faith & lack of equipping (discipling) My wife & I sat in churches for more than 25 years & didn't see what Jesus meant in John @, "You will do greater works than I have done". Then we were discipled. We have seen more than 400 people healed over the last 5 years, have baptized more than 200 people & cast out dozens of demons . All praise to Jesus Christ, our Lord!
Thank you for speaking to the Western world that needs to wake up and repent....churchanity never saved a man, indeed it killed it and buried it in sin and dead works.
DR CRAIG S KEENER is a Excellent Bible teacher show us BOOK ,CHAPTER, VERSES ,where the gifts are too stop this side of HEAVEN???
It's called progressive revelation and it was given to the Apostle Paul. If you can't see the difference between what took place early (Acts 19:12) and what took place later (Phil 2:25-27), (2 Timothy 4:20) may the Lord help you.
When intelligence in leaders lacks big time!
Good video!
St. Faustina:
The Greatest Prophet of the 20th Century!
4 passages were mishandled in this video.
You cannot use Ephesians 4:11 as a case for continuationism. The word "Apostle" in Ephesians 4:11 must be referring to the Apostolic office because every other use of the word "Apostle" in Ephesians is clearly referring to the Apostolic office. Furthermore, the word "Apostle" is listed first in Ephesians 4:11. If "Apostle" were referring to the missionary office of "apostle," then it would not come first. Therefore, the "Apostles" in Ephesians 4:11 must be referring to the Apostolic office. I don't think charismatics want to argue that this gift is still being given. Ironically, all orthodox charismatics are partial cessationists because they acknowledge the gift of Apostle of Jesus Christ is no longer given.
No one who actually does the Bible justice can honestly say that Acts 2 is saying Joel 2 is fulfilled. In Joel 2, God says He will pour His Spirit out on ALL mankind. That hasn't happened yet. God says He will display wonders in the sky and on the earth with blood, fire, and smoke. I don't see how you can say that was fulfilled in the first century A.D. God also says the sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood. Again, that hasn't happened yet. Not to mention Joel 3 says that the events of Joel 2 will be immediately followed by Jesus judging the nations. Therefore, Joel 2 and 3 were not fulfilled, and Peter never said they were. Instead, Peter is saying, "We are entering into the last days when God will pour out His Spirit on all mankind, so why are you surprised that we have the Spirit and are speaking in tongues right now?"
James 5 is one of the most poorly translated passages in the Bible. The word "sick" should not be translated as "sick." The word should be translated in this context as "weak," not "sick." James 5:14 is telling sinning and weary believers to talk to the elders, who will help them. Why would James 5:16 tell believers to confess their sins to one another if the problem was physical, not spiritual?
Lastly, 1 Corinthians 13 does teach cessationism. This misinformed teacher needs to study Greek. The word translated as "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13 is the word "teleion." It is an adjective that means "complete, perfect, or mature." It is also use substantivally (as a noun) in 1 Corinthians 13, and it is in the neuter singular. Therefore, it cannot be referring to Jesus, who is masculine! Also, "perfect" is a bad translation because it does not adequately contrast "the partial." Paul calls prophecy, knowledge, and tongues as "the partial" and says they will cease when the "teleion" comes. The opposite of "partial" is "complete," not "perfect." Teleion can and often does mean "complete." The "complete" is referring to the complete revelation of God in the completion of the canon of Scripture. This makes perfect sense because prophecy, knowledge, and tongues are divine revelation gifts. Paul is saying when the full divine revelation of Scripture is complete, the partial revelation gifts of prophecy, knowledge, and tongues will cease to be given. This can be seen by his analogy of the mirror. Paul says in the 50's A.D. that they see in a mirror dimly. He said this because they did not have the complete revelation of Scripture. However, when the Scriptures are complete, they will see clearly. What will they see clearly? Remember, Paul said they see in a MIRROR dimly. Who do you look at in a mirror? Yourself! Don't believe me? Look at James 1, which is the only other passage where the word used for mirror (esoptron) in 1 Corinthians 13 appears. In James 1, the word "esoptron" is used to describe the Bible. If you read the Bible and don't do what it says, then you are like a man who looks in a mirror and forgets what he looks like. On the contrary, if you read Scripture and do what it says, then you are a man who looks in a mirror and sees himself clearly face to face. Paul is saying when Scripture is completed, you will be able to know YOURSELF as God knows you. Charismatics always interpret "know fully as I am fully known" as referring to God. Are you kidding? We will never know God like He knows us! He is omniscient! God is inscrutable, and we will infinitely chase the knowledge of Him for all eternity.
To conclude, remember how we established that the gift of Apostle is no longer given in Ephesians 4:11? Well, then the gift of prophecy must not be given either because Ephesians 2:20 says the Church is built on the Cornerstone (Jesus) and the foundation (Apostles and prophets). If Apostles are gone, then logic demands that prophets are too. If prophecy is gone, then knowledge and tongues must be too in light of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12, which says they will cease at the same time. It's a slippery slope charismatics. Take the plunge!
Craig Keener is one of the best scholars of NT. You are not in position to talk about greek. Secondly your arguments are like rickety barge. 1 Cor 13 is not about Bible - do you see face to face? Do you have perfect knowledge? I mean this argument is just ridiculous. And cascade argument also. Not all apostles did write the Bible and not only apostles did write the Bible. Also continualism is default doctrine. There is not some case for it. It is as it is. You are making new doctrine. May I ask have you been filled with Holy spirit?
Craig Keener is a fallen human like everyone else, so he is not infallible.
Why am I not in a position to talk about Greek? Is my knowledge of the language inferior because I haven't understood it as long as Keener? That's like saying I can't correct someone who says 2+2=5 just because he was studying math longer than me. You're either right or wrong when it comes to language, just like math.
Yes, I do see myself face to face when I read Scripture and understand it (cross reference with James 1:23-25). I do have perfect knowledge of everything God wants me to know (but that doesn't mean I have internalized all of it) because I have the all-sufficient canon of Scripture (cross reference with 2 Timothy 3:16-17). My question for you is how you can read 1 Corinthians 13:12 where Paul talks about a mirror, and then think seeing "face to face" is somehow referring to Jesus. That is illogical. I also question how you think Jesus can be the "teleion" when "teleion" is neuter. Do you think Jesus is sans-gender? Also, 1 Corinthians 13 has been used to prove cessationism for the history of the church. Only recently did anyone think 1 Corinthians 13 could be used to support continuationism.
How do you not understand the cascade argument? Are you saying there are Apostles today? Are you a New Apostolic Reformation heretic? If so, I will immediately demand that you repent of your heresy.
Also, I literally chuckled when you said I am making new doctrine. EVERY SINGLE NON-HERETICAL CHRISTIAN FOR THE PAST 1,900 YEARS WAS A CESSATIONIST. That includes John Chrysostom, Augustine of Hippo, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Matthew Henry, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, Abraham Kuyper, B. B. Warfield, and A. W. Pink, just to name a few. You can't use history against me. There was one documented exception to cessationism, and that was the Montanists in the 2nd century. They said divine revelation was still given, the Holy Spirit talked to them, the title of prophet was passed down by succession, spoke in ecstatic gibberish, let women be leaders in churches, and emphasized emotions over teaching. Does that sound familiar? Oh yeah, that's exactly what the charismatic movement is today. The Montanists were denounced as heretics by the early church. If only the modern church could grow a spine and stamp out the charismatic movement for the better.
Josh Peterson You should read his book about Miracles where he listed many many many historical evidence also. Even Augustine changed his mind.
You say that you have perfect knowledge... you must be God then. I cannot argue because you are twisting meaning of words and making weird arguments. I am corruptable man still. And I will always be until Jesus will come back and perfect will come with Him. If you think that you have perfect knowledge then tell me how many stars are in the universe.
You have listed many ex-catholics. I do not expect gifts to be there. Reformers brought a lot of from mother church. But there were even manifestations among people who held to reformed theology. John Knox for example is known for his fullfiled prophecies also Spurgeon prayed for healings and it happened. Salvation army, anabaptists that were persecuted by catholics and reformers. You reallly should read history and not books from MacArthur. Irreneaus argumented against gnostics that christianity is followed by miracles.
But this is history. Again. I see doctrine out of experience and history and not scripture. Every cessationist is like that. The fact satan hates gifts and counterfeits does not mean that they are not for today. There is not conflict with gifts and adding to the Bible. There are prophets in Revelation. Cannon is closed because it is completed not because apostles are or are not for today. Luke, Jude, Mark were not apostles. And not all apostles left us scripture. And Paul is teaching a lot of about seeking gifts because it is powerful weapon against satan if applied correctly. Thats why satan hates it. He doesnt hate cessationistic churches because they are not kicking on the gates of hell. We should seek God more and use His power for the purposes of the kingdom. I want more gifts so I can use them for the kingdom. I dont need more Bible. We should get back to acts like christianity.
+marklar2012
I barely have enough time to read good theologians, let alone wrong theologians.
With regard to Augustine, he was an avowed cessationist, especially with regard to tongues. He did claim to have seen miracles in Carthage, but there are a few things to consider. First, there was no documented proof of these miracles. Benny Hinn claims to do miracles today, but that doesn't mean they're true, right? Just because someone said something doesn't mean he's right. Furthermore, I do not believe that miracles never happen. What I DO believe is that the gift of miracles is no longer given. Augustine only said he saw some miracles in Carthage. He didn't say he saw anyone doing it. I've seen and heard of people who went from stage 4 cancer to healed, and I would call that a miracle. Does that make me a continuationist? Absolutely not. God can intervene and heal whomever He wants. However, that doesn't mean He gives someone the ability to heal at will with 100% effectiveness. There is not one documented, medically verifiable case that proves the gift of healing is still around or ever exercised in the past 1,900 years. Lastly, with regard to Augustine, do not forget that he was living in an age where the Church was very mystical. He attributed some of these miracles as occurring due to the presence of relics, the use of religious symbols, and praying to saints. Should we implement those today? Augustine is not on the side of continuationism.
I never said I had perfect knowledge. I said I have perfect knowledge of everything God wants me to know (but that doesn't mean I have internalized all of it). If you truly believe that Scripture contains everything God wants us to know, then you have perfect knowledge too. But, sadly, you're a continuationist, so you don't believe the canon is complete, regardless of what you say with your lips. Your beliefs betray your open-canon position. We can (emphasis on CAN) know everything God wants us to know if we study the Scriptures. The Scriptures do not say how many stars there are in the universe, so I don't know. Stop making straw man arguments.
Hahaha, do not use Spurgeon to support you. Spurgeon said he hopes those in his day who claim to hear from God are crazy. He also said he would laugh at them and tell them to take their insanity elsewhere. He also said the miraculous gifts, tongues, and the gift of prophecy are not given because their duty is fulfilled. Do not take his bewilderment with God's providence of how an event played out in an eerily similar manner to a prediction as a case for saying Spurgeon is on your side. Like I said, he would have called you a lunatic and sent you away from him.
I will not disagree that Tertullian and Irenaeus were sucked into verifying the Montanists, much like how people like John Piper and J. I. Packer are sympathetic to the charismatic movement but are not involved in it. The fact that some good theologians were not totally opposed to the Montanists does not change the fact that Montanists were declared heretics by the early church because of their practice of claiming divine revelation from the Holy Spirit, allowing women to teach men, speaking gibberish, and emphasizing emotions. I would not condemn John Piper, but I will say he was misguided. The same thing applies to Tertullian and Irenaeus. They were misguided for not condemning the Montanists.
You are arrogant for thinking your churches are somehow more effective than cessationist churches. You wouldn't be here without cessationists, because it was cessationists who cleaned up the Church. Now you charismatics are throwing it into confusion. Here's how:
Tongues? You say it's a gibberish prayer language, when the Bible says it was a known language spoken by someone who had never studied it.
Prophecy? You say it's fallible, but the Bible says it has to be 100% accurate or else you die.
Miracles and healing? You say they occur, but you have no proof. In the Bible, you could not deny that miracles were happening because they were verifiable and obvious.
Knowledge and wisdom? You say you can still hear from God, but the Bible says you can't add on to Scripture. I know you'll say today's revelation doesn't count as biblical revelation, but you're making an unbiblical distinction. If God is speaking, then God is speaking. Colton Burpo says the Holy Spirit is blue. Did you know the Holy Spirit is blue? I didn't either. Should we insert the book "1st Burpo" after Revelation? Nope.
You claim to be on your high horse by being a true, New Testament believer. All you are is a con-artist and a distorter of the true biblical charismatic gifts. Repent of your false beliefs.
Also, you never answered my question: Are there Apostles of Jesus Christ today?
What is apostle? There are at least 7 apostle types in Bible. carm.org/dictionary-apostle Which one?
You ask because you want to label me as heretic. There are tongue speakers in history. Tongues are not dictionary downloaded into our brains. It is manifestation of the Spirit and His power that manifests in reality as earthly languages but also unknown languages. Read 1 Cor. 14. It is prophecy when it is interpreted. Corinthians were not speaking spanish and interpretation is not using dictionary or something like that. It is all over the Bible. Even in Romans 8:26.
God is speaking through his creation to all people (Romans 1), all people have law written in their hearts (Romans 2), God is calling is people (John 6:44), He is leading them by his voice (John 10), Holy spirit is leading us (Romans 8:14) and many other passages that like Matthew 10:27 where Jesus says that words will be given to us. If you dont hear God's voice - who called you? If you have ministry - who ordained you? Have you called yourself, have you builded yourself? Who sended you? Are you ordained by man or by God? "For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends." 2 Cor 10:18.
Holy spirit Miracles from Keener contains many evidences. Again: You are making arguments from experience. I would say that most of the people in churchianity are not even filled with Holy spirit because people who ordained themselves and studied scripture using their adamic brain, said that if you believe that means that you have Holy spirit.. Yet Paul asks question in Acts 19 about baptism in the Holy spirit. It is something real and if you havent expereinced some supernatural filling how does the Holy spirit testifies that you are child of God? And others are seduced by cessationism. Reformes were ex-catholics who were influenced by dead religion. Look on salvation army, look on moravians, look on early anabaptists, look on Wesley, Finney and others. I really know little names but I have huge book filled just with evidence. But you dont want that. You want your MacArthur's kool-aid. Read Bible and seek God. Do not follow men and their traditions. Most of them are lost. I was cessationist. But I have changed mind because of plain understanding of scripture.
Many of us distrust the “abuse” of supernatural gifts. I agree and I also worry about the abuse of biblical teachings that can be used to manipulate others. Ravi is a recent example.
Show me a Prophet...
The Christian Cowboy watch all his videos until your heart is content
ua-cam.com/video/4KbSCqIlNns/v-deo.html
Not that kind of Prophet. A Seer. None today...
@@thechristiancowboy6967 agreed, no prophets today and no apostles. To be an apostle you have to have been an eye witness, or been appointed one like Paul who had an encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus.
Years ago I almost bought a commentary by Keener on amazon, but after watching videos of
his online I'm glad I didn't because his theology is bonkers.
Cessationism destroyed in 10 minutes or so 😂🤷🏽♂️
I'd read more literature by cessationists before claiming that.
You need to first learn what is the office of a Prophet. I think your mixed up a bit. The prophets Paul is talking about is "Preachers" not the office of the Prophet.
If Keener actually knew what the real gift of tongues was he wouldn't say any of this.
So you are Pentecostal? So you speak in tongues… cast out demons. I am sorry sir. I refuse to pay anymore attention to this kind of false teaching
you know what is funny? the question could be answered in one word"yes"...instead we try to look really smart....only a theologian can make the simplest statements of the Book this complicated...feel sorry for him....
I honestly would like to know how you concluded from my statement,that I in any form or shape set aside the importance of the daily study of Script.
The best gifts; faith, hope and love are for today. If you are a Christian you have all three. Everything else are no longer given. Teaching...gone, helps...gone, giving...gone etc. People who are great teachers, givers, helpers etc. are that way because of personality and personal development. Not because they got zapped at salvation. The reason God gave those gifts during that first century was to get the church off the ground.
Jeff Engstrom watch and change your theology
ua-cam.com/video/4KbSCqIlNns/v-deo.html
+Travis Howett Travis, you've gotta be kidding.
One has to completely ignore the living Word of God to hold the position you have so poorly espoused.
Because the Holy Spirit is still in born again believers today, and because the Spirit is the source of the spiritual gifts, He can and does still manifests them as He wills to.
@@travishowett1189 the video has been removed? What was it about?
Hey Craig. Those were the prophets of Baal in those caves you’re referring to in 1st kings. So are you sure you even know what you’re talking about ? Elijah told them to call upon their lord and Elijah to call up on his lord for fire to the bull and the first one to do so was the real god. So those were not even real prophets you’re referring to. Or should I say Gods prophets
capnumericka, I am sorry to say this, but it is not Craig who doesn't know what he is talking about, " you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about." Did you read what 1 Kings 18:3-4 says on the matter that Craig addressed? This is what 1 Kings 18:3-4 says:
Ahab summoned Obadiah, who was in charge of the household. (Now Obadiah [a]feared the LORD greatly; 4 for when Jezebel killed the prophets of the LORD, Obadiah took a hundred prophets and hid them by fifties in a cave, and provided them with bread and water.)
Please explain to me why Obadiah would hide prophets of Baal in the cave, if he feared the LORD greatly.
I mean, whose prophets were hidden in the cave? Was it the prophets of Baal or the prophets of the Lord that were hidden there?
Let’s be honest here. Shouldn’t you have checked your facts before speaking out? You are NOT more informed about this issue than he is? After all, who is the scholar? Is it you or is it him?
God too away the gift of tongues in 70 a.d. and the gift of Prophecy in 90 a.d. because people were abusing these gifts..pretending to have the gifts of tongues or pretending to have the gift of prophecy. He promised to give them back during the 1000 years God will reign on Earth.
Must show from Scripture or stay silent.
Yes before 70 AD God took away the gifts, Paul's gift of healing was gone by 64 AD when he wrote Timothy and stated he was unable to heal Timothy of his stomach troubles and told him to try drinking some wine for your stomach pain 1 Tim 5:23 [because he caught a parasite from
drinking the middle eastern water, quite common]
Pentecostals don't know how to rightly divide, so they believe they have the former gifts bestowed on the 1st century church which are completely gone by the writings of 1 Tim 5:23.
Since Israel was being judged in the Roman Jewish war lasting 7 years and the majority
of them fell away and would be scattered once again, there would be no point in the sign gifts to cause they to believe like tongues in Acts 2 and 10.
Even though no Pentecostal can pick up snakes Mark 16 yet Paul once did and was bitten by
poisonous one and it did not hurt him fulfilling the scriptures Acts 28.
Pentecostals can't drink poison either, nor can they heal people with the palm of their hands
called laying on of hands, the Pentecostal preachers however are selling wolf tickets to
because it's good money in their pockets.