New SmartFly Yoke: A Pilot's Review
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- A detailed review of the features and performance of the new SmartFly Yoke from Ray Dynamics in India. Similar to the Yoko+ in many ways but at a fraction of the cost could this be for you? See it in action and hear my pros and cons before a final recommendation.
Ray Dynamics website:
www.SmartFlySim.com
Honestly Russ I wish we could get an affordable Force feedback yoke. Racing sims have it. Maybe because it’s such a niche market and the RnD is higher they charge a huge premium. If someone could make an affordable Force feed back yoke for MSFS and X-plane 12 it would be extremely popular.
Yes but the yoke is a bit more complicated that a sterring wheel with a single axis. Remember Iris Dynamics in about 2013 hadf a kickstarter campaign ...watch this video for a trip down memeory lane ua-cam.com/video/bOCzSHhjAc4/v-deo.htmlsi=2mz5df0XCTQilYG2
@@rbarlow I’ll check it out. Thanks!
I have an Iris Dynamics Force Feedback yoke..from what has to be close to 10 years ago.
@@Dennis47403 does it still work?
@@rbarlow Just getting the flight sim up and running again since I built a proper computer for it, its been in the basement for awhile. I think it works... I'll be finding out in the next week or so.
Glad to see the larger yoke tube. It adds to the strength as well as the look. Another superb review Russ.
Thanks Chuck
Nice objective review, Russ. I always like when reviewers are not financially involved in the products they review and objectively provide pro's and con's. I'm just researching Yoke options and this video is timely. Thanks for putting this together. This is certainly an interesting option and one I'll be exploring.
Thanks for the kind words.
Looking forward to this video Russ!
This looks very interesting. Thanks for the Review Russ
Hello there. Always enjoy your videos.
Based on this thorough video I took a chance and ordered the yoke. It arrived in perfect condition and is a HUGE improvement over my previous Saitek one. It has the bearing modifications and performs every bit as well as Russ' review. The service provided by Ramesh was first class and his communication was very prompt throughout. I highly recommend this very affordable upgrade. As a matter of note, their server has been down for about a week due to Internet service provider problems. They hope to have it back up and running shortly.
Thank you .. regards Ramesh
Thank you for the feedback. I've been looking at this for the past few months, building myself up to pull a trigger on the purchase. A bit nerve wrecking as it would be coming from India so any further support is unknown at this point without a solid dealer here in USA. Hearing that you've received a quality product though, helps with the decision making a bit more.
@srbarlow . Good review, thank you. The official website pictures do not show the modified shaft bearing, so it will be interesting to see what configuration the earlier purchases will be. They might have to sell of their first production batches without the modified bearing, and only later purchases will have it.
No this is just being released. I had a preproduction sample .... andf a second preproduction sample, The unboxing video was the first one with no linear bearing if you look closely.
Nice review.
I see others made wishlist requests. I always wanted a yoke you could loosen a set screw underneath and pop the "grip" off, then disconnect a USB connection. This would allow different grips to match the aircraft you are flying (TBM, Honda, Piper). An all green-colored grip might be chroma keyed for Mixed Reality someday.
I saw Varjo has a chromakey mask on a racing wheel so that the pilts real hads appeared to be in the sims steering wheel. Very cool. You could engineer the changable handle yourself given a stong yoke to start with. Just need some type of cannon plug to connect the switches and a quick release mechanism to attach the various handles. I like it.
@@rbarlow Seems natural. Your comments mean a lot coming from you!
Thanks for the review. I have several yokes but prefer my Velocityone Flight to any I have tried.
I didn’t like the velocity one due to the strong centering spring detent in pitch. I heard they were trying to address that. Is it still there?
Hello Russ, a good review of a product I still can't find any other references to! I saw your discussion of the centering and the various bungee combinations, which raises a question for me. You show their chart on the bungee forces, but what's missing is how the centering accuracy might differ in each case. I ask because Honeycomb Aeronautical claimed centering accuracy was a limiting factor in its design of the Alpha yoke. A lot of people didn't like the relatively high pitch forces in the Alpha, but Honeycomb said this was necessary to achieve acceptable centering with the bearings they used. Of course Ray Dynamics may have used better bearings, but the obvious next step is for you to persuade them to send you the production bungees so you can check it out :)
Well Mark, every try I made it was almost exact... from 10 + 10 option to the 0 +10. This thing has ball bearings on all pitch friction points. It is actually almost too slick. It felt like a fighter until I added a 3% dead zone in pitch. The hall effect sensors are so accurate in the neutral point where the resisting force is about zero it is easy to overconrol and get into a PIO. The dead zone eliminated that. I could never rotate the FlightFX Cirrus Vjet smoothly and let it fly off before this yoke. With the honeycomb it would jump into the air. Honeycomb didn't want to spend the money on the linear bearings. And the large extension I am sure makes more precise inputs possible since the full pitch control range is spread over a larger distance of yoke travel. Great to hear from you. Miss your great teaching lectures sitting in the Twin Otter! I'm trying to avoid YT burnout buy limiting my videos but lately rather excited about Mixed Reality in the relatively inexpensive Quest 3 headset. Finally a path for cockpit builders in VR without abandoning their beloved cockpits! Not quite there yet but getting closer every day. Happy New Year Sir!
@@rbarlow Yes, when you need to add your own dead zone you know they've got it right! I'm on a bit of a hiatus but watching your VR/MR videos with interest :)
I built a FFB yoke and stick with VPforce kits for a reasonable price. Game changer.
they still there? Google has it but URL goes to: This site can’t be reached fpforce.net refused to connect.
Would like to see followup to this or at least some way to track any follow up info.
My bad...VPForce..😊.@@rbarlow
@@rbarlow try google "VPForce helisimmer", there is a news article about it which shows the way to the manual and their discord
@@rbarlow their discord server has more details, and it is the main means of communication with the dev, as well as some personal projects of the community member built with the kits(some of them are even open sourced with BOM and files for printing, but mostly just joystick base and a few for rudder pedals mods)
I actually hated the super stiff pitch axis on the honeycomb Alpha yoke. Got rid of it. I noticed it the most in the landing flare. Tough to finesse a nice landing. I must say, that I just cannot go back to a spring/bungee based stick/yoke after getting my FFB units. I have the Bruner CLS-E stick, and the Simionic yoke. The Bruner is definitely the superior product, and if I had found it first, I would have purchased the Bruner yoke rather than the Simionic. I flew Boeing products for many years (727, 737) and now I fly the A320. The Boeing feel never struck me as stiff, but did provide some resistance. It was not hard to finesse the Boeings for nice, precise control. The bus, of course has a dampened side stick with no change in force throughout the flight envelope.
Obviously it is a subjective thing but the full extension on the SmartFly and Yoko are both considerably longer than HC Alpha so that the 12 bit sensor has more movement of the yoke for the same value change and the pitch is not stiff as it approaches the neutral point as the spring forces are low there. In fact the ball bearings are so slippery that I have to put a small dead zone in the pitch axis to keep from over controlling in the flare. Maybe because I flew the 737-200 for several years before we got the -300 but the 300 took quite a pull on rotation and flare compared to the 200 that you flew with your fingertips. I have flown a Flight iIlusions FFB yoke that I felt like I was arm wrestling. It kinda turned me off to FFB because it is a lot to spend without trying it myself or having a trusted recommendation. Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion. I will look into the Brunner units.
@@rbarlow I wonder how is the way the trim system works in the pitch axis of 737, in regard to yoke movement? Does the yoke still centers once trimmed (i.e. like an average spring centered flight sim yoke), or does it hold the position like a GA yoke? I only know that the pitch trim is mostly moving the whole stabilators instead of the elevators...
@@rbarlow Russ, I really enjoy all the work you do to produce these fine videos. The video you did on multi-monitors was very, very helpful. I just installed a Brunner and oh my, what a difference to the Honeycomb ("HC"). Yet, as you say, the SmartFly is very reasonably priced and the HC is an excellent value. Now the work to create various profiles for the different aircraft - that's where I'm going to get lost! :) I'll search for some profiles that have already been made.
I’ve got a Honeycomb (it’s behind a panel, so I have no use for the extra switches). Would you consider this a worthwhile upgrade?
Great review.. Congrats 🌹🌹🌹👏👏👏
thanks for the encouragement
It is probably a nice yoke. However, I can see I'd not like the squared corners of the yoke. I use the Honeycomb Alpha and love the feel of the yoke, being smooth rounded grips.
Looks very promising. I note the images on their website don't yet reflect the modified yolk you reviewed though. I fly with the original Yoko at the moment, and for me a killer feature would be a modular hand grip. Imagine you could swap out the GA hand grip to a Vulcan single hand grip, and go fly the Vulcan on the same hardware. That would be amazing!
Yes I removed the yoke and unfortunately there is no quick disconnect so each wire would have to be resoldered. I will suggest a plug there. If you have the Yoko I would stick with it awhile and let any bugs to be worked out and the company prove its ability to deliver and provide customer service from India. If I needed a Yoke I’d buy it.
Nice video, as usual; may I ask you what your pc specs are?
Thanks for reviewing this Russ. This yoke looks like it is worthwhile to try out. I also couldn’t help but notice the trim wheel on your bravo quadrant has some kind of attachment to give it the look and feel of an actual trim wheel. Can you share the details on what that is and how I might be able to get one? Thanks again for all the great info you contribute to our flight sim community.
That is a separate trim wheel I bought
On Etsy gear-falcon.com/products/gear-falcon-desk-mount-elevator-trim-v2?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=4f8925645&pr_rec_pid=7708532801777&pr_ref_pid=7884615844081&pr_seq=uniform
@@rbarlow got it. So that’s completely separate from the bravo and I assume it plugs into the usb hub separately?
@@bobbellis3007yes I just didn’t like the the lack or resistance of the Bravo trim wheel. The only issue with this one you are discussing is that it has a potentiometer and if you use it after moving the trim with the yoke switch they aren’t synced and the airplane jumps to match the extra trim wheel pot position. I may modify it with an encoder so it works like the Bravo wheel but is bigger and more resistance
@@rbarlow I have to say I really like what I see of the Gear Falcon units, especially for small GA sims! Any chance you could do a review of their equipment?
@@EdwardRLyons I will take a look
Thanks for the review. I have a Yoko and like it, but I kind of agree that I like a beefier look and feel. I know this is not the video for it but do have any calibration recommendations for the Yoko? If there is another video, site, or email for which you’d prefer I raise this question please let me know. I have the Ruddo pedals as well.
Russ, thank you for the video, I was looking for a good, affordable yoke since Fulcrum went down as I was waiting for mine. I'm thinking of pulling a trigger on this one. One question though, the trim feel in the real aircraft, does the yoke actually move towards or away from you as you trim the aircraft? How precise is that feel of force in the hand, meaning if the pilot trims just a little bit, do they feel just a few more ounces of weight in the yoke or is it negligible until you really trim it out of alignment and have to actively push or pull on it? Hope my question makes sense as I'm not a pilot.
Also for the force feedback in the real aircraft, how noticeable is the difference in feel of the yoke when you are flying at low air speed versus a higher speed? As I understand the yoke tightens a bit as the air speed increases since there is more resistance on the elevator but how noticeable is this difference between lets say a landing speed (about 60 knots) and a cruising speed of 180?
Thank you
Most small airplanes with cable connection to the controls do change feel with speed. Of course the B737 and other hydraulic controled airplanes have to use springs and aor bellows to create artificial feel to mimic these force changes. The Airbus has auto trin that is constantly trimming the airplane without the pilots input alsmost like haveing the autopilot in control wheel steering whey it stays in the attitude you leave it. SInce the cables if the light plave are attached to the elevator when it moves to trim to the proper position for the speed, the yoke moves too. You should never fly with trim. Instead hold the pitch in the desired attitude and then trim until the forces required are zero and the pitch attitude neither rises or falls. The sim is slight different but I see no difference whether in sim or aircraft. watch my video for more details watch my video Trim Your Sim: Theory and Practice ua-cam.com/video/pmIFctYMEm4/v-deo.html
Thanks, I was searching for a Yoke and that option sound interesting and an "ok" one for VR flyer that do not need to much buttons.
I mostly appreciated the cooperation between the company and yourself since it could just help them create a better hardware overall.
I just wonder, have you tried any force feedback yokes and do they add that much of experience vs the non FF, especially in price performance ?
My 2 yen tho, yes, the difference btwn FFB(control loading, not just shaking effects) and spring/bungee centered device IS day and night, especially for GA aircraft. Imagining driving a car with a spring loaded steering wheel..it's just wrong. Not to mention the trim issue Russ has mentioned in the video. I don't know any real world yoke that is only spring centered, even on the FBW 777 & 787.
OTOH, IMO it's arguable that the underperformed CLS-E from Brunner is worth its price, especially given other options are already available, namely the mighty VPForce. (Unless you only fly X-plane..for now the Brunner software has better support for that platform than any others)
imho force feedback, like motion platforms, are great if they have an good algorithm and are well tuned but if not they can be distracting and actually break immersion for real pilots. For non-pilots, how would they know if it feels real or not? Like a motion platform I would not buy a FFB yoke without getting a good chance to fly it yourself. I would also talk to a pilot or two with some experience using it and get their opinion before jumping in with a big chunk of your paycheck. Sometimes a well built non FFB yoke is a better value.
So where can I buy this thing I do not see a link in your description and I cannot find it on google
It is a the end of the video but I should have included it in the description my bad. I will add it www.smartflysim.com
I saw a force feedback yoke recently...
Brunno And Simonic and it was incredible looking.
And expensive around
1200 dollars ..each plus software..
somebody is going to make a killing if they come up with that...
👀
Great video as always. Do they have a link/post yet? We're based in Tulsa, loved to learn your training was in Oklahoma. Vance AFB?
Yes the link is at the end of the video smartflysim.com/
I attended Undergraduate Pilot Training class 76-06 from late 1975 until the end of 1976 in beautiful Enid. Loved the perfect grid lines the roads made for aerobatics references and saw the most unbelivable dust storm of my life there. One of the best years of my live.
@@rbarlow Thanks for pointing out the link. Almost the perfect track from Vance to Tinker to McConnell and then back down to Vance. Let those ATC students get some practice. Spent 25 years in KOKC area and moved closer to the Ozarks for some latter chapters. Missed you last year in Houston at FSExpo, hope to see you in Vegas! Keep making great videos!
There is a large variation on the choices of yokes to chose from, but I would like to see the same development of panels etc
Me too but the Simulation market is not that big and it is a hobby for many people so they have limited funds to spend. I think this limits the choices somewhat.
@@rbarlow Maybe, but we still see various new yokes and throttles on the market. Button boxes replicating certain aircraft panels would be welcomed by hobbyist just as much as a new yoke and throttles. There are a few generic ones on the market, but costing over £500 or more, but are let down by lack of backlighting. I got a decent light switch panel from flight illusion that has backlighting, but it a shame they cannot develop or improve it further.
Russ I can't remember, have you flown DCS? And if not, will you be giving the F4 a test when it releases from Heat Blur?
I would like to .... if I can set up a fighter cockpit.
@@rbarlow I have no doubt you are more than capable haha
Really wish flight simulators gave me a work around for trimming the yoke to neutral. The last thing I want to do in a simulator is practice the wrong way to do something. An expensive force feedback yoke is the obvious solution. But a trim-for-neutral button would be good alternative. While holding the new neutral position, press and hold the trim-for-neutral button, release the yoke and then the button.
Not possible to do with key mapping. The flight simulator guys will have to provide the feature
Trimming is an art that pilots need to master (unless like the Airbus you have auto trim) watch my video Trim Your Sim: Theory and Practice ua-cam.com/video/pmIFctYMEm4/v-deo.html
I agree it’s a skill that has to be learned. I have 500 hours IRL. But I’m not sure you can learn it from a simulator doing it ‘wrong’. IRL it’s a feel thing, not so in a simulator.
Trim is particularly obnoxious when trying single engine in something like a Baron. I’m likely just learning to press each trim button x, y or z seconds for each axis when the engine goes out, rather than teaching the feel.
This would be something worthy of studying with a reasonable sample of sim and flight naive students. Put half in force feedback sims and half in simple ones. Train them for a while and then swap the groups. I’m pretty sure they both will struggle when they switch sims. Good marketing for sim cockpit manufacturers to sell the upgrade.
. @@rbarlow
Consider this 50 euro DIY mod path for Honeycomb Alpha yoke for more natural trimming (neutral position moving with trim):
ua-cam.com/video/TXYufEfrOpo/v-deo.htmlsi=AdFtlVF-QPGSCERE
Can you give a link to the comapay?
Thanks
It was at the end of the video … from memory www.smartflysim.com
Any idea when and where this will be available?
The contact info is at the very end of the video
Hi Russ I have a question for you.
I use Xplane12 with two monitors, but when I connect the monitor to my pc while in the sim, I always get a vulkan device loss error. Do you have any idea why this occurs and how to fix it?
I’ve tried:
-Updating graphics driver
-Rolling back graphics driver
-Uninstalling all 3rd party files(plugins, aircraft and scenery)
-Verifying game files on steam
-Lowering all graphic options
-Fresh reinstall
-Setting the two monitors to the same resolution
All this effort and I still get the crash.
(I’ll attach a link to the log file soon)
the log file: drive.google.com/file/d/14SFYMyTMBDOGSh-AtTnFBD0kXFiD_huu/view?usp=drive_link
Where can we buy this? i live in India itself and im wondering where to buy
smartflysim.com/
Great review. I would like to buy one but the C-clamp wouldn't work for me. Not so much on the C-clamp itself, even though it's ugly, it is the bolt hanging down too low. My keyboard is on a tray mounted below the desk. I am a part time sim flyer and my computer has to do other business related works most of the time.
If you've got the tray below your desk, you could secure it with thumb-screws through the tray into the underside of the yoke housing. (I do this with my present yoke, it's much better and clears the desktop real estate!)
@@chrisvowell2890 Thank you for the suggestion. Cheers.
you could also attach it to a piece of 1/4"plywood slightly larger and overhanging the yoke on the sides and using countersunk screws into the underside threaded holes. Then use the clamps outside the width of the keyboard tray. Just an idea.
@@rbarlow Thanks for the idea. Cheers!
Could a tiny null zone around the center eliminate that problem ?
Yes it could but in this case the needed null zone wasn’t tiny. The large diameter yoke shaft on nylon bearings and the lateral torque of single hand inputs was making the yoke fall short of the real neutral point by up to 1/4”. In fact even with the new linear bearings I needed to set a 3% dead zone since it is so frictionless now and the Hall effect sensors so sensitive you could over control or enter a PIO.
Pilot induced oscillation for the laymen
Also, the weaker bungees will most likely cause the centering problem to increase.
I can't seem to find this yoke for sale anywhere.
It's right at the end of the video :)
Www. Smartflysim.com
yokum
(reviewing the video on how to sneak flightim parts in to the house...) ;-)
Haha, i need to watch that too lol
Late at night… be very quiet
@@rbarlowexperience? 😂
Hi....Do you have a link Please????
www.smartflysim.com
Those clamps look like they went to Harbor Freight. For the price I think it should have something a bit more elaborate.
As I said if not bolting it down this is not so great. Maybe you could sell some aftermarket desk clamps. With the 10 +10 bungees it better be a sturdy desk at full travel.
Can i get any link
at the end of the video.... www.smartflysim.com
I know the Yoko has a top quality build, but for that price, you can get a Yoke wit FFB. The SmartFly looks way more reasonable.
Have had a series of email exchanges with this company and sent you an email today concerning that exchange. Hope you can offer some help. Thanks.
the audio level on this video is WAY low.... you might want to adjust and repost it..
1/3 the price… nice
sorry but what you mean - basic controls - no fluff?
I would think up, down, left, right and trim controls with push to talk. No flaps or landing gear or brake or engine ignition control like the Honeycomb.
Yes @cammy9r has it right… just basic pitch roll and a few yoke mounted switches…. No switches for lights, battery, gen, avionics and ignition starter key like Honeycomb. The CH yoke even has trim and throttle prop mixture on their yoke.
C Clamps black would look a little better...hahaha
Black spray paint is cheap but maybe that was to keep you from banging your knees on them.
Try a dead zone of 3%
Yes that's what I ended up with on mSFS